Laura: JASON CASUGA, THANKS FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

Casuga: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, LAURA.

APPRECIATE  THE OPPORTUNITY.

Laura: WE ARE TALKING  SECOND WEEK IN JUNE SO EARLY JUNE, HOW DO THINGS LOOK FOR  WATER SUPPLIES ON THE MIDDLE RIO GRANDE RIGHT NOW?

Casuga: THAT IS A TOUGH QUESTION AND I WISH I HAD  BETTER NEWS BUT IT'S NOT LOOKING VERY GOOD.

AS WE ARE ENDING -- AS WE BEGAN MAY WE HAD QUITE A BIT  OF WATER, SPRING RUNOFF WAS COMING DOWN BUT I DON'T THINK  FOLKS REALIZE IS IT WAS COMING DOWN EARLY WHICH MEANT IT  WOULD END EARLY AND WE ARE SEEING THAT PROCESS OF THE  AMOUNT OF THE NATIVE WATER THAT WE AVAILABLE TO US IN THE  MIDDLE RIO GRANDE COMING TO AN END.

AND THE MIDDLE RIO GRANDE CONSERVANCY DISTRICT THIS WEEK  STARTED OR LATE LAST WEEK STARTED RELEASE OF OUR SAN  JUAN CHAMA WATER TO AUGMENT NATIVE FLOW, WHICH IS VERY  EARLY ON WHEN WE HAVE TO START DOING THAT.

SO I WOULD SAY THE WATER SITUATION, UNFORTUNATELY, IS  LOOKING PRETTY BLEAK.

Laura: SO,   WHAT CAN FARMERS EXPECT, YOU THINK, IN THE  COMING WEEKS?

Casuga: SO, WE ARE GOING TO  FACE GENERALLY A DOWNWARD TREND ON AMOUNT OF WATER WE  CAN DIVERT TO THE POINT WE WON'T DIVERT ANYTHING ELSE.

WE ARE GOING TO REACH A POINT IN TIME WHERE WATER DELIVERY  TO NON-PUEBLO FARMERS WILL KICK IN AND WE'LL ONLY BE  DELIVERING WHAT WE CALL PRIOR AND PARAMOUNT MOUNT WATER TO  TRIBAL COMMUNITIES AND SHORT OF GETTING RAIN, THE AMOUNT OF  WATER THAT MANY NON-TRIBAL FARMERS CAN EXPECT IS GOING TO  BE VERY LITTLE, IN SOME CASES NONE.

Laura: MRGCD HELD A SPECIAL MEETING AT THE END OF MAY AND  I HEARD YOU SAY IN THE MEETING MULTIPLE TIMES THAT IF  IRRIGATION DELIVERIES ARE STOPPED IN THE COMING WEEKS,  THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE DISTRICT HAS ENDED THE  IRRIGATION SEASON, IT MEANS THAT THERE IS NO WATER.

CAN YOU ELABORATE ON THAT?

Casuga: SO, OFTENTIMES, I  THINK, WHEN WE ARE TALKING IN OUR BOARD MEETINGS, PEOPLE GET  THIS IDEA THAT WE AT THE MRGCD ARE LITERALLY TURNING OFF THE  FAUCET, IF YOU WILL.

IN THIS INSTANCE, WE ARE NOT.

MRGCD WILL BE OPEN FOR BUSINESS AND IF WE HAVE WATER  TO ROUTE AND MOVE TO FARMERS WE WILL DO THAT.

THE PROBLEM IS WE ARE JUST RUNNING OUT OF THE PRECIOUS  RESOURCE THAT WE ROUTE TO FARMERS.

SO, WITHOUT RAIN, I EXPECT MAYBE AS EARLY AS THE 15TH OF  THIS MONTH TO HAVE VERY LITTLE TO NO WATER TO DIVERT AND TO  DELIVER TO OUR NON-PUEBLO AGRICULTURAL COMMUNITY RIGHT  NOW AND THAT WILL STAY THAT WAY UNTIL WE GET RAIN AND IF  WE GET RAIN.

IF WE GET A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT  OF RAIN WHERE WE CAN DIVERT THAT AND ROUTE IT TO FARMERS,  WE WILL DO THAT.

IN THAT SENSE, WE ARE OPEN FOR  BUSINESS WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCE TO DELIVER TO  FOLKS.

Laura: I KNOW THAT FARMERS  IN THE DISTRICT UNDERSTAND THIS, BUT I JUST KIND OF  WANTED TO LAY OUT FOR THE AUDIENCE, LIKE, THE RIO GRANDE  ISN'T NECESSARILY LIKE JUST A NATURALLY FLOWING RIVER  ANYMORE.

THERE IS A SERIES OF  RESERVOIRS AND DIVERSIONS AND THE WATER MOVES FROM PLACE TO  PLACE, AND DIFFERENT STATES, DIFFERENT ENTITIES HAVE  DIFFERENT WATER RIGHTS THAT CAN BE HELD IN DIFFERENT  RESERVOIRS.

WHERE DOES THE MRGCD STORE ITS  WATER AND WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THAT STORED WATER RIGHT  NOW?

Casuga: HISTORICALLY MRGCD  STORED ITS WATER AT EL VADO DAM.

EL VADO DAM IS OWNED AND OPERATED BY THE BUREAU OF  RECLAMATION AND MRGCD IS THE NONFEDERAL PARTNER WITH  RECLAMATION WITH EL VADO.

WE MAY O & M FOR IT BUT BUREAU  OF RECLAMATIONS MANAGES IT AND DOES ALL OPERATIONS.

EL VADO DAM IS CURRENTLY GOING THROUGH A REHABILITATION UNDER  THE BUREAU OF RECLAMATION SAFETY OF DAMS PROGRAMS SO IT  IS NOT AVAILABLE TO US TO STORE NATIVE WATER.

AND, SO, WITHOUT HAVING THE ABILITY TO STORE WATER, WE  TRULY ARE WHAT WE CALL A RUN OF THE RIVER SYSTEM.

WE ARE BEHOLDING NO WHAT IS PRODUCED IN THE UPPER  ELEVATIONS FROM A SNOWPACK STANDPOINT OR FROM THE AMOUNT  OF RAIN THAT WE GET.

AND WE HAVE NO REAL ABILITY TO  SUPPLEMENT THAT THROUGH NATIVE STORAGE.

ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS I THINK IS WORTH MENTIONING  THERE IS THAT NEW MEXICO IS CURRENTLY IN DEBT UNDER THE  RIO GRANDE COMPACT WHICH ALSO LIMITS OUR ABILITY TO STORE  AND WOULD LIMIT OUR ABILITY TO STORE EVEN IF EL VADO WAS  FUNCTIONING.

SO, WE JUST FACED THE   ALMOST PERFECT STORM, EXTREME  DROUGHT, AN INFRASTRUCTURE THAT HAS TO BE FIXED AND THEN  THE DEBT UNDER THE RIO GRANDE COMPACT AFFECTING THE MIDDLE  VALLEY.

I MEAN, IT IS ALL COMING TO A  HEAD AT ONE TIME.

Laura: WE HAVE SEEN THE  RIVER IN STEADY DECLINE FOR DECADES AND WE HAVE SEEN  TEMPERATURES RISING FOR DECADES.

IT FEELS TO ME LIKE THIS YEAR SHOULDN'T BE A HUGE SURPRISE  TO PEOPLE AND YET IT FEELS LIKE A CRISIS.

DO YOU KNOW LIKE HOW ARE FARMERS PLANNING TO ADAPT TO  THIS YEAR?

Casuga: LAURA, I THINK IT  IS DIFFERENT ACROSS THE BOARD.

I HAVE SEEN SOME OF THE  FARMING COMMUNITIES ADAPT AND ADAPT PREVIOUSLY AS WE HAD  KIND OF SIGNS OF WHAT WAS COMING, DRYER YEARS, BUT  REALISTICALLY WHAT I TELL OUR TEAM AT MRGCD, I DON'T THINK  ANYBODY HAS FACED WHAT WE ARE FACING FROM A MANAGEMENT  STANDPOINT THIS YEAR.

NOT HAVING EL VADO DAM, THE EXTENT  OF BEING IN COMPACT DEBT THAT WE ARE AND THEN THE CONDITIONS  THAT WE HAVE RELATED TO THE DROUGHT.

RIGHT.

SO, I THINK WHAT THE DROUGHT  IS GOING TO DO, AND I SAY THE DROUGHT BECAUSE EVEN IF WE GET  THE INFRASTRUCTURE FIXED AND WE GET MORE IN COMPLIANCE WITH  OUR COMPACT DEBT, I DO THINK WE ARE GOING TO FACE A  HYDROLOGIC REALITY WHERE WE ARE PRODUCING -- THE SYSTEM IS  PRODUCING LESS WATER.

SO, I THINK THAT WE HAVE  ENOUGH INFRASTRUCTURE ON THIS RIVER TO NOT JUST WEATHER IT  BUT HOPEFULLY TO THRIVE, BUT THERE IS A LOT OF WORK TO BE  DONE, BOTH ON THE FARMING SIDE, LOOKING AT THE  EFFICIENCY OPERATION WITHIN AN INDIVIDUAL FARMER'S FIELD.

MRGCD IS DOING THAT SAME THING NOW AS WE LOOK AT OUR SYSTEM.

HOW CAN WE MOVE WATER MORE EFFICIENTLY AND GET IT TO  FARMS MORE EFFICIENTLY.

AND THEN ANY TYPE OF  INFRASTRUCTURE FARMERS NEED TO INVEST IN FOR DROUGHT  RESILIENCY.

I KNOW MANY FARMERS HAVE  INVESTED IN DROUGHT RESILIENCY WELLS THAT THEY CAN SUPPLEMENT  WHEN THE DISTRICT CAN'T MAKE DELIVERIES.

AND I THINK FOLKS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE A MORE REALISTIC  LOOK AT THAT AS THEY GO FORWARD BECAUSE I EXPECT THAT  WE WILL CONTINUE TO FACE A VERY DIFFICULT HYDROLOGIC  REALITY FOR SOME TIME.

I HOPE IT IS DIFFERENT AND MY  WISH IS THAT IT IS DIFFERENT.

I JUST DON'T THINK THAT IS  WHAT WE ARE SEEING AND I DON'T THINK IT IS GOING TO BE A  TREND THAT TURNS AROUND VERY QUICKLY.

Laura: ARE THERE CONCERNS THAT AS PEOPLE CAN'T GET  SURFACE WATER THAT THEY START DRILLING MORE WELLS AND USING  GROUNDWATER AND COULD WE POTENTIALLY KIND OF END UP IN  A SITUATION LIKE IN THE LOWER RIO GRANDE WHERE THERE IS  COMPACT ISSUES BETWEEN TEXAS AND NEW MEXICO BECAUSE OF THAT  GROUNDWATER PUMPING?

Casuga: YEAH, LAURA, I  THINK THAT AS WE -- AS I LOOK DOWN ON THAT LOWER SECTION AND  THE IMPLICATIONS DOWN THERE AND THEN LOOK AT THE MIDDLE  VALLEY, I THINK IT IS RIGHT TO BE CONCERNED WITH PUMPING.

AND TO A DEGREE, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE AS NEW  MEXICANS WILL HAVE TO DO IS PUT IN SYSTEMS, I THINK, TO  MONITOR THAT PUMPING TO ESSENTIALLY TAKE THAT BULL BY  THE HORNS.

BECAUSE I THINK THAT IS WHAT  IT IS GOING TO TAKE BECAUSE IT IS THE SAME CUP OF WATER,  RIGHT?

I WAS EXPLAINING THIS TO A  DIFFERENT INDIVIDUAL THE OTHER DAY.

IMAGINE A CUP OF WATER WITH A STRAW IN IT, SURFACE WATER  DRINKS UP FROM THE TOP, PUMPING JUST DRINKS IT FROM  THE BOTTOM, RIGHT?

SO IT IS THE SAME CUP AND I  THINK WE HAVE TO BE MINDFUL OF THAT.

I DO THINK THERE IS A RIGHT BALANCE WE CAN GET TO BUT ON  THE MRGCD SIDE WE DON'T MANAGE WELLS.

THAT COMES FROM THE  OFFICE OF THE STATE ENGINEER.

OUR GAME IS PRIMARILY IN  SURFACE WATER, RIGHT, FROM A DELIVERY STANDPOINT.

SO, THERE IS, I THINK, NEEDS TO BE COLLABORATION AND  COORDINATION, GET A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE AMOUNT OF  PUMPING THAT IS ALREADY GOING ON IN THE MIDDLE VALLEY THAT  MAYBE WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT.

WHICH I THINK THERE IS QUITE A  BIT OF PUMPING GOING ON IN THE MIDDLE VALLEY THAT WE DON'T  KNOW ABOUT AND START SLOWING BUT SURELY BRINGING THAT INTO  AN UNDERSTANDING AND REGULATING THAT.

BUT I THINK NOTHING CAN BE OFF THE BOARD RIGHT NOW.

I THINK THE DROUGHT IS GOING TO BE A GREAT EQUALIZER IN  THIS AND CAUSE US TO CONTINUE TO LOOK AT THESE THINGS AND  GET BETTER.

I SAW DROUGHT AND I MEAN JUST  OUR HYDROLOGIC REALITY RIGHT NOW BECAUSE DROUGHT SOMETIMES  IMPLIES THAT IT IS COMING AND GOING.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT  IS WHAT WE ARE SEEING.

SO, I THINK THE RIGHT TERM IS  OUR CURRENT HYDROLOGIC REALITY AND IT MAY BE THIS WAY FOR  SOME TIME.

Laura: I DON'T WANT TO  SCARE PEOPLE BUT I WANT TO UNDERSCORE THE SERIOUSNESS OF  THIS YEAR.

SO, JASON, ANY FINAL WORDS  ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE OUTLOOK FOR THE SUMMER?

Casuga: I DON'T KNOW AND IT MAY SCARE FOLKS BUT THAT IS  NOT MY INTENT.

MY INTENT IN MY JOB IS TO  SPEAK THE TRUTH AND BE TRANSPARENT.

I THINK PEOPLE DESERVE TO KNOW HOW DIFFICULT IT IS GOING TO  BE.

HOPEFULLY, LAURA, I AM HOPING  BY OPPORTUNITIES LIKE THIS AND OTHER TIMES I HAVE BEEN ABLE  TO TALK WITH THE MEDIA, IS THAT WE CAN GET THE MESSAGE  OUT THERE.

I STILL THINK THERE IS A LOT  OF FOLKS IN THE MIDDLE VALLEY THAT ARE NOT IN TUNE FROM A  WATER SITUATION ON WHAT WE ARE FACING, NOT JUST IN THE MIDDLE  VALLEY BUT IN NEW MEXICO AS A WHOLE.

WHAT WE ARE FACING, THE COMMUNITY NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND  IS NOT EXCLUSIVE TO NEW MEXICO.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE GREATER PART OF THE SOUTHWEST FROM A  DROUGHT WATCH STANDPOINT, WE ARE EITHER IN EXCEPTIONAL TO  SEVERE DROUGHT.

THAT IS A REALITY FOR THE WHOLE SOUTHWEST.

WHAT WE ARE DEALING WITH IN THE MIDDLE VALLEY IS THE SAME,  JUST ON A DIFFERENT SCALE TO WHAT THEY ARE DEALING WITH ON  THE COLORADO RIVER.

AND, SO, WHAT I WANT TO TELL  FOLKS IN THE COMMUNITY IS THAT I THINK THERE IS A PATH  FORWARD BUT I DO THINK THAT THE CONVERSATION ON DROUGHT,  HOW WE MANAGE OUR WATER, I THINK, THE CONVERSATIONS WE  NEED TO HAVE AMONG OUR FEDERAL AGENCIES AND SOME OF THE  OVERLAPPING AUTHORITIES THAT LIMIT, I THINK, THE USEFULNESS  OF INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE HAVE, HAS TO BE AN IMPORTANT  CONVERSATION GOING FORWARD BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS  RIVER NEEDS MORE INFRASTRUCTURE.

IT NEEDS TO MAKE USE OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE HAVE  AND THE MORE PEOPLE THAT KNOW ABOUT THIS ISSUE, I THINK,  THEN, CAN BEGIN TO INFLUENCE, I THINK, SOME OF THESE CHANGES  FROM AUTHORITIES TO LAWS, IF LAWS NEED TO BE CHANGED, AND  PARTNERSHIPS THAT NEED TO BE HAD, BUT THAT STARTS BY  KEEPING THE COMMUNITY INFORMED ABOUT WHAT WE FACE.

AND I WILL SAY THAT I AM GETTING MORE AND MORE CALLS  NOW FROM FOLKS THAT ARE JUST NOT EVEN IN THE BENEFITED AREA  OF THE DISTRICT TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE  COMMUNITIES THAT THEY ARE HISTORICALLY GOING TO, LIKE IF  THEY VISIT CORRALES OR THE BOSQUE, OR THEY GO NORTH A  LITTLE BIT AND LIKE TO HIKE ALONG THE RIVER, RIGHT, THE  MORE FOLKS THAT GET INVOLVED, I THINK, CAN HELP TURN THESE  CONVERSATIONS AS WE DEAL WITH THESE INFRASTRUCTURE ISSUES,  THESE AUTHORITIES, AND HOPEFULLY GET ALL OF US WATER  MANAGEMENT AGENCIES GENERALLY MARCHING IN THE RIGHT  DIRECTION.

Laura: THANKS SO MUCH FOR  TALKING WITH ME.

Casuga: APPRECIATE THE  OPPORTUNITY.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.