>>Gene: BUT FIRST, AN ASSESSMENT ON HUNTING IN OUR STATE.

HERE IN NEW MEXICO WILDLIFE SPECIES LIKE DEER AND ELK BELONG TO THE PEOPLE BUT ARE MANAGED BY THE STATE.

SOME HUNTERS SAY THAT THE DISTRIBUTION OF HUNTING AUTHORIZATIONS, BETTER KNOWN AS HUNTING TAGS, AREN'T FAIR TO RESIDENTS WHO DEPEND UPON THE MEAT HUNTING YIELDS, NOT TO MENTION TIME OUTSIDE WITH FAMILY AND FRIENDS.

IT TAKES A WHILE TO HUNT SOMETIMES.

THIS WEEK OUR LAND LAURA PASKUS TALKS WITH NEW MEXICO WILDLIFE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR JESSE DEUBEL ABOUT THOSE COMPLAINTS AND ASKS IF THERE IS A WAY TO REFORM THE STATE'S GAME COMMISSION AND INSULATE THOSE DECISIONS FROM POLITICS.

>> Laura: HI JESSE.

>> Deubel: HI LAURA, HOW ARE YOU?

>> Laura: I AM GOOD.

THANKS FOR BEING WITH ME HERE TODAY.

>> Deubel: THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

IT IS GREAT TO SEE YOU.

>> Laura: WE ARE HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

I AM A NEW MEXICO RESIDENT.

WHAT WOULD I DO IF I WANTED TO, LIKE, SAY, APPLY FOR AN ELK TAG?

>> Deubel: IF A NEW MEXICAN OR A NONRESIDENT OF NEW MEXICO WANTS TO HUNT BIG GAME IN NEW MEXICO, YOU APPLY IN THE NEW MEXICO BIG GAME DRAW.

THAT IS ADMINISTERED BY THE NEW MEXICO DEPARTMENT OF GAME AND FISH.

AND AN INTERESTED HUNTER CAN GO ON THE DEPARTMENT'S WEBSITE, FILL THE APPLICATION OUT ONLINE.

THE DEADLINE TO DO THAT IS MARCH 22.

SO THE APPLICATION PERIOD IS CURRENTLY OPEN AND IT CLOSES 5:00 P.M. MARCH 22.

>> Laura: THEN WHAT HAPPENS?

CAN I JUST DO WHAT I WANT?

>> Deubel: AFTER YOU APPLY, YOU HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE DRAW RESULTS.

IT TAKES ABOUT A MONTH AND IN THE MIDDLE OF APRIL THE DEPARTMENT WILL SEND OUT EMAIL NOTICES OR INDIVIDUALS CAN GO ON THEIR ACCOUNT, THEIR CUSTOMER ACCOUNT WITH NEW MEXICO DEPARTMENT OF GAME AND FISH TO SEE DRAW RESULTS.

JUST LIKE NEW MEXICO HAS RED AND GREEN CHILE, WHEN WE GO TO DRAW RESULTS WE WANT TO SEE A LOT OF GREEN, BECAUSE GREEN MEANS YOU HAVE DRAWN THE TAG AND RED MEANS YOU WERE UNSUCCESSFUL IN THAT PARTICULAR DRAW.

>> Laura: SO THEN THERE ARE SOME TAGS THAT THE STATE RESERVES FOR PRIVATE LANDOWNERS; IS THAT RIGHT?

>> Deubel: THAT IS CORRECT.

SO, IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ELK, THERE ARE ONLY 62% OF ALL ELK TAGS ARE ACTUALLY INCLUDED IN THE PUBLIC DRAW.

SO, NEW MEXICO STATE STATUTE SAYS THAT IN THE PUBLIC DRAW NEW MEXICO RESIDENTS GET 84% OF THE AVAILABLE TAGS.

NONRESIDENTS WITHOUT AN OUTFITTER GET 6% AND THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE A CONTRACT WITH AN OUTFITTER, THEY HAVE 10% OF THE TAGS RESERVED FOR THOSE APPLICANTS THAT COULD BE RESIDENTS OR NONRESIDENTS.

BUT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, 38% OF THE TAGS FOR ELK IN PARTICULAR ARE ISSUED TO PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS AND THOSE ARE TRANSFERABLE AUTHORIZATIONS.

SO, WHOEVER RECEIVES THOSE AUTHORIZATIONS CAN SELL THEM TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER.

THEY CAN GIVE THEM AWAY.

THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY LIKE WITH THEM.

AND WHOEVER ULTIMATELY HAS THAT AUTHORIZATION CAN CONVERT IT INTO A TAG TO HUNT ELK IN NEW MEXICO.

>> Laura: THESE LIKE PRIVATE LANDOWNERS WHO GET ACCESS TO TAGS, THEY CAN SELL THOSE, RIGHT?

HOW MUCH DO THOSE GENERALLY COST AND WHO GETS THOSE?

>> Deubel: THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION.

MOST OF THE TIME THOSE TAGS ARE BEING SOLD TO NONRESIDENTS OF THE STATE.

THAT IS JUST BECAUSE OF ECONOMICS.

RESIDENTS HAVE EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO BUY THE TAGS JUST AS A NONRESIDENT DOES, BUT IN THE GILA, IT IS NOT UNCOMMON TO SEE A SINGLE ELK -- I SAY TAG -- AUTHORIZATION THAT EVENTUALLY CONVERTS TO A TAG, FOR $20,000 OR MORE.

AND THAT IS JUST FOR THE AUTHORIZATION.

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT OUTFITTING SERVICES, NOT TALKING ABOUT GUIDING SERVICES, OR MEALS OR LODGING OR ANY OF THAT, JUST FOR A UNIQUE FIVE DIGIT CODE.

IF IT SELLS FOR $20,000, THERE IS JUST NOT THAT MANY NEW MEXICANS WHO HAVE THE ABILITY TO PAY THAT KIND OF MONEY TO HUNT THE ELK THAT WE PUBLICLY OWN.

>> Laura: LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT.

INASMUCH AS SOMEBODY -- AN ANIMAL BELONG TO PEOPLE, BUT WILDLIFE IN NEW MEXICO BELONGS TO NEW MEXICANS; IS THAT RIGHT?

>> Deubel: THAT IS CORRECT.

THE WILDLIFE OF THE STATE ARE MANAGED AS A PUBLIC TRUST RESOURCE.

SOME PEOPLE MIGHT BE OFFENDED BY THE TERM RESOURCE AS WE ALLUDED TO.

OUR WILDLIFE ABSOLUTELY HAS INTRINSIC VALUE.

WE LOVE WILDLIFE.

I GENERALLY REFER TO THEM AS THE WILD OTHERS BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE WE ARE ALSO JUST ANIMALS LIKE THEY ARE.

SO, I HAVE A VERY STRONG RELATIONSHIP WITH WILD ANIMALS BUT HUMANS HAVE ALTERED THE LANDSCAPE IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT REQUIRES MANAGEMENT.

WE HAVE TO MANAGE THESE SPECIES.

NOTHING EXISTS ANYMORE BY ACCIDENT.

WILDLIFE IS HERE BECAUSE WE WANT IT TO BE HERE.

AND DIFFERENT THAN A LOT OF OTHER SYSTEMS AROUND THE WORLD, LIKE IN EUROPE, IF A WILD ANIMAL IS STANDING ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, IT DOESN'T BELONG TO THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY.

WILDLIFE BELONGS COLLECTIVELY TO ALL OF THE RESIDENTS OF NEW MEXICO AND WE HAVE A STATE GAME COMMISSION WHO SHOULD BE ACTING AS THE TRUSTEE TO THE BENEFICIARIES OF THE TRUST, BENEFICIARIES BEING THE RESIDENTS OF NEW MEXICO AND THE TRUSTEES BEING THE GAME COMMISSION AND WILDLIFE SHOULD BE MANAGED AS A PUBLIC TRUST RESOURCE.

>> Laura: ARE THEY IN NEW MEXICO?

>> Deubel: WELL, THAT IS ARGUABLE.

I BELIEVE GOING BACK TO THAT 35% OF OPPORTUNITY BEING ALLOCATED OR BEING GRANTED TO NONRESIDENTS OF THE STATE, I THINK THAT IS VERY DISPROPORTIONATE.

I DON'T THINK THE RESIDENTS OF NEW MEXICO ARE SEEING THE TYPE OF MANAGEMENT PRACTICES THAT ARE COMMON ACROSS THE WEST THAT REALLY PRIORITIZES THE RESIDENT OF THE STATE AS IT RELATES TO THE MANAGEMENT OF THE WILDLIFE IN THE STATE.

>> Laura: I AM CURIOUS WHERE HUNTING IN GENERAL IN NEW MEXICO FITS INTO THE FOOD SECURITY ISSUE.

LIKE DO MOST NEW MEXICO HUNTERS EAT WHAT THEY ARE HARVESTING?

>> Deubel: I WOULD SAY, LAURA, THAT THAT IS PROBABLY THE NO.

1 MOTIVATING REASON THAT MOST HUNTERS IN NEW MEXICO HUNT IS TO FILL THE FREEZER.

THAT CERTAINLY IS MY PRIMARY REASON.

THERE IS A LOT OF REASONS.

YOU LOVE TO BE OUTSIDE AND COMMUNE WITH NATURE AND SPEND TIME WITH FRIENDS AND FAMILY AND ALL THOSE THINGS ARE IMPORTANT, BUT FILLING THE FREEZER IS A TOP PRIORITY OF EVERY NEW MEXICAN HUNTER I KNOW.

AND IT IS ABSOLUTELY A FOOD SECURITY ISSUE AND THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS THAT HAVING 35% OF THE ELK HUNTING OPPORTUNITY GOING OUT OF STATE IS INAPPROPRIATE BECAUSE THAT MEANS 35% OF THE MEAT TAKEN FROM ELK OFF OF OUR LANDSCAPE IS ALSO GOING OUT OF STATE.

FROM AN AVERAGE ELK, I AM GOING TO GET ABOUT 200 POUNDS OF LEAN, HEALTHY ORGANIC SUSTAINABLY HARVESTED PROTEIN.

AND FOOD SECURITY IS A SERIOUS ISSUE IN NEW MEXICO.

THE LICENSE FEE INCREASE BILL THAT I JUST MENTIONED INCLUDES A PROVISION THAT ANY NEW MEXICAN WHO QUALIFIES FOR SNAP BENEFITS, STATE NUTRITIONAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, WILL RECEIVE A 25% DISCOUNT ON THEIR HUNTING AND FISHING LICENSE AND THAT IS BECAUSE WE RECOGNIZE THAT HUNTING IS CRITICAL TO MANY FAMILIES WHEN IT COMES TO ENSURING THEY HAVE AN ADEQUATE FOOD SUPPLY.

>> Laura: WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE NEW MEXICO DEPARTMENT OF GAME AND FISH AND THERE IS ALSO THE GAME COMMISSION.

I HAVE BEEN COVERING WILDLIFE ISSUES IN NEW MEXICO FOR DECADES AND IT IS A COMMISSION THAT THERE HAVE BEEN UPS AND DOWNS AND PROBLEMS OVER ADMINISTRATIONS, BUT IT DOES SEEM LIKE RIGHT NOW THE GAME COMMISSION HAS BEEN IN SOMEWHAT OF A CRISIS.

WHAT IS HAPPENING?

>> Deubel: THE COMMISSION IS IN SHAMBLES.

THAT IS A REALITY AND THE NEW MEXICO WILDLIFE FEDERATION WAS CRITICAL IN ESTABLISHING THE NEW MEXICO STATE GAME COMMISSION BACK WHEN LEOPOLD WAS RUNNING THE ORGANIZATION SO I AM CERTAINLY WALKING IN SOME HUGE FOOTSTEPS THERE, BUT THE COMMISSION WAS CREATED SO THAT IT COULD CREATE INSULATION BETWEEN WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT AND POLITICS.

WE NEED TO MANAGE WILDLIFE BASED ON SCIENCE NOT BASED ON POLITICAL MOTIVATIONS.

UNFORTUNATELY, OUR CURRENT COMMISSION STRUCTURE ALLOWS A GOVERNOR TO REMOVE ANY COMMISSION, ANY COMMISSIONER, AT ANY TIME, WITHOUT CAUSE.

SO, AS LONG AS THAT STRUCTURE IS IN PLACE, WE STRUGGLE WITH GETTING A GAME COMMISSION WHO CAN OPERATE AND MAKE DECISIONS INDEPENDENTLY OF POLITICAL PRESSURES.

THERE IS ALSO A BILL IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE, KEEP GOING BACK TO POLITICS HERE, BUT GAME COMMISSION REFORM BILL, HOUSE BILL 184, AND IT WOULD MAKE IT SO IF A COMMISSIONER WAS GOING TO BE REMOVED, THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE JUST CAUSE FOR REMOVAL.

AND A GOVERNOR COULD MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION BUT THAT RECOMMENDATION WOULD THEN GO TO THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES IN THE STATE AND OUR STATE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES WOULD MAKE THE DECISION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT REMOVAL WAS APPROPRIATE.

THAT IS, IN MY MIND, THE NO.

1 MOST IMPORTANT FIX WE CAN DO TO ENSURE WE DON'T FIND OURSELVES IN A SITUATION LIKE WE ARE IN TODAY WHERE OUR SEVEN-PERSON COMMISSION ONLY HAS THREE COMMISSIONERS.

WHICH MEANS THEY CAN'T EVEN FORM A QUORUM WHICH MEANS THEY ARE COMPLETELY DYSFUNCTIONAL.

THEY CANNOT FUNCTION.

I AM NOT JUSTING USING DYSFUNCTIONAL AS AN ADJECTIVE BUT AS DESCRIPTOR OF THEIR INABILITY TO ACTUALLY MAKE A DECISION AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH COMMISSIONERS.

>> Laura: THANKS JESSE, THANKS FOR BEING WITH ME HERE TODAY.

>> Deubel: THANK YOU, LAURA.

I REALLY APPRECIATE THE INVITATION, ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO SIT DOWN AND HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH YOU.

AND I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR THOROUGH AND ACCURATE COVERAGE OF THESE IMPORTANT ISSUES.