>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, COMMUNITY IN CRISIS.
WE CATCH UP WITH A STATE REPRESENTATIVE TO ASK HOW THE FARMINGTON AREA IS RESPONDING TO MONDAY’S DEADLY MASS SHOOTING.
>> Duncan: THESE WERE THREE WOMEN OF GREAT FAITH AND SERVICE TO OUR COMMUNITY.
I’D CALL THEM PILLARS OF OUR COMMUNITY.
THEY WERE JUST SALT OF THE EARTH PEOPLE.
>> Gene: AND IN A SPECIAL PANEL DISCUSSION, WE DISCUSS THE END OF TITLE 42 AND WHAT IT COULD MEAN FOR IMMIGRATION ACROSS OUR STATE.
NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.
>> Gene: THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.
I’M YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.
THE CITY OF FARMINGTON IS MOURNING THE DEATHS OF THREE WOMEN, ALL OVER THE AGE OF 70, AFTER A MASS SHOOTING THAT ALSO INJURED SIX PEOPLE, INCLUDING TWO POLICE OFFICERS.
IN LESS THAN A MINUTE, I SPEAK WITH STATE REPRESENTATIVE MARK DUNCAN ABOUT THE SHOOTING, HOW PEOPLE IN FARMINGTON ARE FEELING, AND THE GOVERNOR’S CALLS FOR GUN CONTROL LEGISLATION.
THEN IN ABOUT TEN MINUTES, WE TURN OUR ATTENTION TO THE BORDER WITH MEXICO.
ONE WEEK AFTER THE END OF TITLE 42, I’LL ASK OUR SPECIAL PANEL WHY WE HAVEN’T SEEN THE HUGE INCREASE IN MIGRATION MANY PREDICTED.
AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HOUR, WE SHIFT FOCUS TO A CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM EFFORT THAT DIED ON THE GOVERNOR’S DESK THIS SPRING.
EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR SITS DOWN WITH A DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND THE STATE’S CHIEF PUBLIC DEFENDER TO TALK ABOUT THE MEASURE THAT WOULD HAVE MADE IT TOUGHER TO LOCK UP PROBATIONERS AND PAROLEES FOR SO-CALLED TECHNICAL VIOLATIONS.
ALSO IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE SHOW, OUR LAND’S LAURA PASKUS CONTINUES HER SERIES ON ONE OF THE STATE’S MOST PRIZED NATURE PRESERVES, VALLES CALDERA.
SHE ASKS THE SUPERINTENDENT ABOUT A NEW MANAGEMENT PLAN FROM THE PARK SERVICE AND WHAT IT COULD MEAN FOR PUBLIC ACCESS.
BUT WE START THIS WEEK WITH STATE REPRESENTATIVE MARK DUNCAN’S REACTION TO THE SHOOTING IN FARMINGTON.
>> Gene: REPRESENTATIVE MARK DUNCAN, THANK YOU FOR MAKING TIME FOR US IN A DIFFICULT TIME PERIOD.
FIRST QUESTION RIGHT AWAY, HOW IS THE CITY OF FARMINGTON DOING A COUPLE OF DAYS AFTER THIS HORRIFIC TRAGEDY?
>> Duncan: I THINK THE MOOD HERE IS A LITTLE BIT SOMBER.
THESE WERE THREE WOMEN OF GREAT FAITH AND SERVICE TO OUR COMMUNITY.
I WOULD CALL THEM PILLARS OF OUR COMMUNITY.
THEY WERE JUST SALT OF THE EARTH PEOPLE.
AND IT'S ALWAYS A SAD CASE WHEN HORRIFIC ATTACKS LIKE THIS HAPPEN, BUT WHEN YOU ARE RELATED TO THEM, IT'S EVEN A LITTLE BIT HARDER.
>> Gene: DID YOU PERSONALLY KNOW ANY OF THE VICTIMS OR THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS RESPONDING TO THE SHOOTING?
>> Dan: AUNT MELODY IS OUR AUNT ON MY WIFE'S SIDE, AND GRANDMA GWEN IS HER MOTHER.
SO I KNEW AUNT MELODY QUITE WELL.
>> Gene: WHAT HAVE BEEN THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES SO FAR COMMUNITY WIDE, AND MAYBE FOR YOURSELF PERSONALLY?
WHAT'S BEEN THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE?
>> Duncan: I THING PROBABLY THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE FOR ALL OF US IS FOR THOSE WHO MAY WONDER A QUESTION OR STRUGGLE WITH MENTAL CHALLENGES, YOU KNOW, ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS NEXT, AND IN REALITY THE POLICE DID A GREAT JOB.
THE FIRST RESPONDERS DID A GREAT JOB AND DID EVERYTHING THEY COULD TO HELP OUT THE SITUATION AND TAKE CARE OF IT.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT GREAT RESOURCES OUT RIGHT NOW FOR THE COMMUNITY AND THEY ARE BEING HANDLED.
I KNOW THE CIVIC CENTER IN FARMINGTON IS SET UP TO HELP OUT WITH THOSE WHO ARE NEEDING COUNSELING AND NEEDING OTHER THINGS.
SO I THINK TIME WILL BE A HEALER, BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN RESOURCES AND AVENUES OUT THERE FOR PEOPLE TO GET THE HELP THAT THEY'D LIKE.
>> Gene: THE POLICE HAVE ALSO IDENTIFIED 18 YEAR OLD BEAU WILSON AS THE SHOOTER, AND A FRIEND OF HIS TOLD THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL THAT MR. WILSON WAS DIFFERENT, HEARD VOICES SPEAKING TO HIM, HAD A HARD TIME MEETING NEW PEOPLE, ETC., ETC.
WE'VE HEARD A LOT OF THIS BEFORE.
BUT WHAT SORT OF MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES ARE AVAILABLE IN FARMINGTON AND SAN JUAN COUNTY AT THIS POINT?
>> Duncan: WELL, I THINK THAT'S THE STRUGGLE WE FACE WITHIN THIS WHOLE STATE OF NEW MEXICO.
AS A LEGISLATOR, WE WORK TO TRY TO KEEP OUR DOCTORS WITHIN THE STATE, WE WORK TO TRY TO RECRUIT DOCTORS FOR THE STATE, AND I DON'T THINK FARMINGTON IS ANY DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER RURAL PART OF THE STATE.
>> Gene: LET'S BROADEN THIS UP A LITTLE BIT.
MASS SHOOTINGS HAVE BECOME A NATIONAL SITUATION IN THE U.S., AS YOU KNOW.
NEW MEXICO HAS NOT BEEN IMMUNE.
NEITHER HAS THE COUNTY THAT YOU REPRESENT, AS YOU KNOW.
I'M NOT TELLING YOU SOMETHING YOU DON'T KNOW.
A FORMER SHOOTER SHOT AND KILLED TWO KIDS AND THEN HIMSELF AT AZTEC HIGH IN 2017.
WHAT IS DRIVING THESE SHOOTINGS?
DO YOU BELIEVE THERE ARE TRENDS OR COMMON DENOMINATORS HERE?
>> Duncan: I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S ANY COMMON DENOMINATOR OR ANY TREND AT ALL.
I THINK WE DON'T -- YOU KNOW, AS A STATE, WE HAVEN'T PUT ENOUGH MONEY INTO MENTAL HEALTH, I DON'T BELIEVE, AND SO THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WILL BE DOING, IS CHAMPIONING THAT AND JUST MAKING SURE THAT THE MONEY THAT IS NEEDED AND THE CAREGIVERS THAT WE CAN GET INTO ALL PARTS OF THIS STATE, THAT WE CAN GET THERE.
SO I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S ANY ONE THING.
>> Gene: IS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT THIS SITUATION THAT SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT, I'LL USE THE TERM SEMI-AUTOMATIC WEAPONS, AR-15s, THINGS OF THAT NATURE?
DOES THIS GIVE CREDENCE TO CALLS TO BAN THESE WEAPONS?
DOES IT NOT MATTER?
I'M CURIOUS WHERE YOU ARE ON THAT SUBJECT?
>> Duncan: YOU KNOW, I'LL CAREFULLY CONSIDER ANY UPCOMING LEGISLATION THAT'S FILED FOR OUR SESSION IN 2024, BUT I'M LOOKING MORE AND MORE AT OUR HEALTH CHALLENGES THAT WE FACE.
PEOPLE THAT COMMIT THESE HORRIFIC ACTS OF VIOLENCE, THEY DON'T DO IT IN THEIR RIGHT MIND.
THERE ARE SOME SERIOUS PROBLEMS, AND THOSE PROBLEMS AREN'T BEING ADDRESSED.
>> Gene: YOU KNOW, AS WE KNOW, THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THE SHOOTINGS ARE COMMITTED BY MEN, INCREASINGLY YOUNGER MEN.
THERE USED TO BE A TIME WHEN THE AVERAGE SHOOTER WAS A 39-YEAR-OLD MAN, AND SINCE 2020, THE MEDIAN AGE IS NOW 22.
WHAT'S GOING ON IN OUR COUNTRY WITH THESE YOUNGER MEN, IN YOUR OPINION?
>> Duncan: I WOULD LOVE TO TELL YOU THAT.
I'M NOT A GAMER.
I NEVER HAVE BEEN.
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE DIDN'T ALLOW IN OUR FAMILY, MY WIFE AND I.
AND, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IF WE COULD TALK TO THE GAMERS WHO HAVE VIOLENT GAMES.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT THEY DO FOR HOURS AND HOURS ON END.
I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.
>> Gene: SURE, THAT'S FAIR.
ABSOLUTELY.
GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN-GRISHAM TOLD REPORTERS ON TUESDAY SHE WILL AGAIN PURSUE WHAT SHE CALLS AN ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN AND AGE RESTRICTIONS FOR PURCHASING FIREARMS IN THE NEXT SESSION, AND SOME DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS ARE SIGNALING THEY WILL CARRY BILLS FOR LONGER WAITING PERIODS.
IS LEGISLATION THE ANSWER TO WHAT WE CAN ALL AGREE IS A DEVASTATING PROBLEM IN NEW MEXICO?
>> Duncan: I DON'T THINK LEGISLATION IS THE PROBLEM.
I THINK IT'S THE LACK OF THE FAMILY UNIT.
I THINK IT'S THE LACK OF VALUES THAT WOULD ENCOMPASS TREATING PEOPLE AS THEIR BROTHERS AND SISTERS, AND DRIVING ON THAT.
SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT MORE PROBLEMS OUT THERE THAT WE HAVE TO SOLVE BEFORE -- WE'VE GOT LOTS AND LOTS OF LAWS ON THE BOOKS.
>> Gene: WHAT MIGHT SURPRISE PEOPLE ABOUT HOW QUICKLY FARMINGTON CAME TOGETHER AFTER THIS TRAGEDY?
>> Duncan: I THINK LIKE A LOT OF SMALL RURAL COMMUNITIES THROUGHOUT OUR STATE, WE KNOW EACH OTHER.
WE LOVE EACH OTHER, AND WE'RE THERE FOR ONE ANOTHER, WHETHER IT'S A SMALL EVENT THAT WE NEED TO BE AT OR A TRAGEDY LIKE THIS.
I THINK THE CITIZENS WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY WERE VERY, VERY QUICK TO SHOW SUPPORT, AND I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY EMAILS AND TEXTS AND CALLS THAT WE'VE GOTTEN.
>> Gene: HOW ABOUT FOR STUDENTS AND PARENTS?
OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A DIFFICULT TIME TO TRY TO COME BACK TOGETHER.
HOW DOES A COMMUNITY RALLY FOR STUDENTS AND YOUNG PEOPLE AND TEACHERS?
>> Duncan: WELL, I THINK -- FARMINGTON HAD THEIR GRADUATION LAST NIGHT, AND I THINK THAT AS YOU GO BACK TO A NORMAL LIFE AND AS PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE DOING EVERYTHING WE POSSIBLY CAN TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE THINGS DON'T HAPPEN, AND WE CAN'T LIVE OUR LIFE IN FEAR.
WE'VE GOT TO GO ABOUT OUR LIFE, AND THESE YOUNG PEOPLE DESERVE THAT.
THEY DESERVE TO KNOW THAT THAT GRADUATION IS A GREAT THING, AND THEN TO START THE NEXT PHASE OF THEIR LIFE AND TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
>> Silva: FROM WHAT I'VE GATHERED FROM OUR PUBLIC SCOPING AND CIVIC ENGAGEMENT, AS WELL AS TRIBAL ENGAGEMENT, I GET THE DISTINCT IMPRESSION THAT PEOPLE WANT TO PRESERVE THOSE VALUES IN THE BACK COUNTRY.
AND SO IT WILL BE A FUNCTION OF FINDING THAT RIGHT BALANCE OF HOW MANY VISITORS CAN WE SUSTAIN IN THE BACK COUNTRY WHILE MAINTAINING THOSE VALUES.
>> Gene: NOW IT’S TIME TO WELCOME IN A SPECIAL PANEL THIS WEEK AS WE FOCUS ON OUR SOUTHERN BORDER.
I’M HAPPY TO BE JOINED IN STUDIO THIS WEEK BY SOPHIA GENOVESE.
SHE'S A MANAGING ATTORNEY AT THE NEW MEXICO IMMIGRANT LAW CENTER.
ROBERTO ROSALES IS HERE, A LONGTIME PHOTO-JOURNALIST WHO JUST RETURNED FROM THE BORDER AND WHOSE IMAGES YOU SEE AROUND OUR SET TONIGHT.
AND IT’S GREAT TO HAVE JOURNALIST ALGERNON D’AMMASSA BACK WITH US, NOW EDITOR AT THE DEMING HEADLIGHT.
THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE AND MAKING THE TRIP UP HERE.
LAST WEEK, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION LIFTED TITLE 42, A PANDEMIC-ERA POLICY ENACTED BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IN 2020.
IT ALLOWED THE U.S. TO DENY ENTRY TO NEARLY ALL MIGRANTS SEEKING ASYLUM IN THIS COUNTRY, SHUTTING DOWN THE BORDER IN WHAT THE ADMINISTRATION CALLED A PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURE IN APRIL 2022.
THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION SAID THERE WAS NO PUBLIC HEALTH BASIS TO CONTINUE TITLE 42, BUT IT REMAINED IN PLACE UNTIL LAST WEEK FOLLOWING A STAY FROM THE U.S. SUPREME COURT, OF COURSE, THAT YOU HEARD ABOUT.
NOW, THE POLICY ENDED LAST THURSDAY AS THE DECLARED NATIONAL COVID-19 PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY EXPIRED.
ROBERTO, YOU’VE DOCUMENTED IMMIGRATION AND THE BORDER FOR YEARS AND YEARS.
YOU'VE TRAVELED THERE.
YOU JUST GOT BACK OVER THE WEEKEND.
WHAT DID YOU SEE DOWN THERE?
WAS THERE A RUSH OF MIGRANTS, LIKE MANY HAD FORECASTED?
WHAT WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE?
>> Roberto: IT WASN'T A RUSH, IF YOU CAN SAY THAT.
A LOT OF THEM WERE ALREADY IN PLACE WAITING FOR THE GATES TO OPEN AND TO BE PROCESSED.
HOWEVER, THERE WERE SOME IMMIGRANTS WHO WERE JUST GETTING TO CIUDAD JUAREZ AND TRYING TO COME ACROSS THE RIO GRANDE AND GET IN LINE.
BUT LITTLE BY LITTLE, THEY STARTED UNDERSTANDING THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS GOING TO BE A LONG PROCESS, AND SOME FOLKS GOT THERE TOO LATE.
AT MIDNIGHT, WHEN THAT BORDER CLOSED, THEY WERE STUCK IN LIMBO AND NO IDEA WHAT TO DO.
>> Gene: INTERESTING.
GIVE US A SENSE OF WHAT YOU SAW.
FAMILIES?
SINGLE MEN?
MOMS?
>> Roberto: VERY FEW SINGLE MEN.
MOSTLY FAMILIES, MOTHERS WITH THEIR KIDS.
A LOT OF THEM FROM VENEZUELA.
MOSTLY FROM VENEZUELA.
NICARAGUA, HONDURAS.
YEAH, VENEZUELA SEEMS TO BE THE MAIN COUNTRY THAT WAS REPRESENTED HERE.
YOU CAN DISTINGUISH THEM BY DIFFERENT ACCENTS.
>> Gene: I BET YOU CAN, RIGHT, AT THIS POINT.
>> Roberto: IT'S SUPER INTERESTING.
BUT THEY ALL HAVE ONE COMMON THREAD, WHICH IS THE STRUGGLE TO GET HERE AND LEAVE A VOLATILE SITUATION BACK IN THEIR HOME.
VERY SAD, AND YET POWERFUL IN A WAY, THAT DETERMINATION TO COME HERE.
>> Gene: INTERESTING.
SOPHIA, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT MIGRATION, SOME OF THE STORIES YOU HEAR ABOUT THE TRAVEL.
VENEZUELA IS NOT EXACTLY AROUND THE CORNER.
BUILDING EMPATHY FOR FOLKS WHO ARE TRYING TO BUILD A NEW LIFE, HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT IN OUR DISCUSSION ABOUT IMMIGRATION HERE IN NEW MEXICO?
>> Sophia: I THINK SO OFTEN IN THESE LARGER CONVERSATIONS, WE FORGET THAT THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE SEEKING SAFETY FOR THEMSELVES, FOR THEIR FAMILIES, AND WE ENCOUNTER FOLKS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD IN OUR WORK AT NMILC.
A LOT OF FOLKS FROM VENEZUELA RECENTLY, BUT INCREASINGLY COLUMBIA, ECUADOR, PERU, A LOT OF INDIGENOUS FOLKS.
BUT PEOPLE INCREASINGLY ARE FLEEING TOTALITARIAN REGIMENS, THEY'RE FLEEING HUNGER, THE IMPACTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE, FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS, AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THEY'RE LEAVING BECAUSE THEY'RE BEING PUSHED OUT OF THEIR COUNTRIES.
THEY'RE NOT LEAVING FOR ANY OTHER PULL FACTORS, LIKE U.S. BASED POLICY.
IN OUR WORK, WE ENCOUNTER PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT ONLY SUFFERED VIOLENCE IN THEIR HOME COUNTRIES, BUT ALL ALONG THE WAY TO THE UNITED STATES, THROUGH THE DARIEN GAP, UP AND THROUGH MEXICO.
NEARLY EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY CLIENTS HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED, ROBBED, SEXUALLY ASSAULTED, PHYSICALLY ASSAULTED, AND THEY CONSIDER THEMSELVES LUCKY BECAUSE THEY MADE IT TO THE BORDER AND THEY WERE ABLE TO CROSS, AND NOT EVERYONE DOES.
AND SO IT'S A HUGE RISK THAT PEOPLE TAKE WHEN MAKING THAT JOURNEY.
THEY DON'T MAKE THAT DECISION LIGHTLY.
>> Gene: ALGERNON, AS YOU KNOW, THE CLOSING, LEADING UP, VERY NOISY, A LOT OF PRESS OUT THERE, A LOT OF WARNINGS, AS I MENTIONED TO ROBERTO, ABOUT THIS SURGE OF MIGRANTS.
BUT THE AP HAS REPORTED A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT DROP IN CROSSINGS, AS ROBERTO MENTIONED.
WHAT HAPPENED HERE IN YOUR MIND?
WHAT WAS THE BIG FALL-OFF HERE?
BECAUSE YOU WOULD THINK EVEN AFTER THE CLOSING OF IT, THERE STILL WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT OF A PUSH FOR THE BORDER.
WHAT HAPPENED?
>> Algernon: RIGHT, AND THERE'S STILL PRESSURE ON THE BORDER, IT'S JUST THAT MORE OF THAT PRESSURE IS COMING TO BEAR ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BORDER IN THESE BORDER TOWNS IN MEXICO.
I LIVE NEAR COLUMBUS, WHICH HAS A PORT OF ENTRY TO PUERTO PALOMAS, WHICH IS A PRETTY SMALL COMMUNITY WHERE DOZENS OF PEOPLE ARE WAITING FOR AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK FOR ASYLUM.
THEY'RE WORKING WITH NGOs ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER.
AND WHAT SOME OF THEM ARE TELLING ME IS THAT THESE FOLKS ARE QUIETLY BEING TARGETED.
THEY'RE BEING TARGETED FOR SHAKEDOWNS FROM LOCAL CRIMINALS, THEY'RE BEING TARGETED FOR PROSTITUTION, AND THE COLUMBUS PORT OF ENTRY WILL ONLY PROCESS FIVE INDIVIDUALS PER DAY.
THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID THAT THEY WOULD HANDLE, AND THEN IMMEDIATELY TRANSPORT THEM TO EL PASO.
AND SO IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THE SCENES AT THE PORTS OF ENTRY IN SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO ARE VERY QUIET, BUT I THINK THAT BY DESIGN, THE POLICY HAS PUSHED THE VISIBLE SIGNS OF THAT SUFFERING AWAY FROM PUBLIC VIEW.
>> Gene: I SEE.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR US AS PRESS?
WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO HERE TO GET THIS AWARENESS OUT THERE A LITTLE BIT MORE?
ARE WE DOING ENOUGH AT THIS POINT?
>> Algernon: I THINK WE NEED TO BE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER.
I THINK WE NEED TO BE SPEAKING TO PEOPLE IN MULTIPLE LANGUAGES.
AND I REALLY THINK THAT WE NEED TO GO TO SHOW OUR COMMUNITIES FOR WHOM WE'RE REPORTING THE HUMAN FACE OF THIS.
I THINK THAT ONE LESSON TO DRAW FROM WHAT HAPPENED IN 2019 AND THE WAY THAT THAT COMMUNITY RESPONSE WAS BECOMING CELEBRATED, IT WAS ALSO BRINGING THE MIGRANTS INTO THE PUBLIC EYE SO THAT WE COULD SEE THAT THESE ARE MOMS, THESE ARE CHILDREN.
AND WHEN SUDDENLY THE SITUATION CHANGED AND THE COMMUNITIES DIDN'T HAVE THOSE STORIES AND THOSE IMAGES TO REPORT ANYMORE, BECAUSE THE SUFFERING WAS MOVED TO THE REMAIN IN MEXICO POLICY AND TITLE 42, I THINK IT TOOK THAT AWAY FROM THE PUBLIC EYE SO THAT OTHER RHETORIC STARTED TO DOMINATE THE CONVERSATION.
>> Gene: THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT.
THERE'S BEEN A BIT OF RHETORIC POISONING IN THE DISCOURSE ON THIS.
IT'S EASY TO DEMAGOGUE THIS, ISN'T IT, AND MAKE PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THEY'RE LESS THAN HUMAN.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET AT HERE.
I'LL GO BACK TO YOU, ROBERTO, ON THIS, AS WELL.
HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO TALK TO PEOPLE WHILE YOU WERE THERE?
>> Roberto: YES.
>> Gene: OKAY.
I'M INTERESTING -- IT'S HARD TO PUT ONE'S PLACE IN ANOTHER PERSON'S PLACE, BUT I'M INTERESTED IN THE FEAR FACTOR THAT YOU DEAL WITH THAT YOU HEAR FROM THESE MOMS AND SUCH.
>> Roberto: YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THEM -- I'LL PICK FOLKS FROM HONDURAS.
YOU KNOW, THE GANG VIOLENCE, THE LACK OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE KIDS TO JUST GO TO SCHOOL, JUST TO LIVE A NORMAL LIFE.
NOT EVEN TO JUST GET AHEAD, BUT JUST TO BE NORMAL, IT'S NOT AN OPTION.
AND OF COURSE, WE KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING IN VENEZUELA.
THAT CLIMATE IS JUST AWFUL RIGHT NOW, AND PEOPLE ARE JUST HAVING TO CROSS THE DARIEN GAP AND THE EXPERIENCE AWFUL SITUATIONS.
YOU KNOW, SEXUAL ABUSE, BEING ROBBED.
YOU NAME IT, THEY'VE GONE THROUGH IT.
BUT THEY ALL -- THEY'RE NOT JUST COMING HERE BECAUSE THEY WANT TO WORK AND THEY WANT TO LEAVE THEIR HOME, WHICH, YOU KNOW, GOES AGAINST WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE IN THE U.S.
THINK, THEY JUST WANT TO COME HERE AND WORK.
YES, BUT THEY'RE NOT LEAVING BECAUSE THEY WANT TO.
IF THEY HAD A CHOICE, I'M SURE THEY WOULD REMAIN IN THEIR HOMES.
BUT THAT IS THE COMMON MESSAGE THAT I'M HEARING EVERYWHERE.
>> Gene: INTERESTING.
THAT'S VERY INTERESTING.
SOPHIA, LET'S BACK UP A LITTLE BIT.
WHAT IMPACT DID THE END OF TITLE 42 HAVE ON PEOPLE YOU REPRESENT AND ADVOCATE FOR?
FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHAT WAS IT ROOTED IN?
>> Sophia: TO GIVE A LITTLE MORE CONTEXT FOR TITLE 42, IT WAS IMPLEMENTED IN MARCH 2020 BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, AND THEY USED THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC AS A PRETEXT TO ENACT THIS NEW ASYLUM BAN AT THE BORDER.
SO WHAT WAS HAPPENING OVER THE PAST THREE YEARS IS ASYLUM SEEKERS AND MIGRANTS, WHEN THEY ATTEMPTED TO ENTER THE UNITED STATES, THEY WERE IMMEDIATELY EXPELLED.
THEY WERE EITHER EXPELLED TO MEXICO AND IN SOME INSTANCES EXPELLED TO THEIR COUNTRIES OF ORIGIN.
AND THERE WERE THREE MILLION EXPULSIONS OVER THE PAST THREE YEARS.
AND THAT THREE MILLION ENCOMPASSES SOMETIMES THE SAME ADULT TRYING TO CROSS SEVERAL TIMES, AND THAT NUMBER CAPTURES THEM MULTIPLE TIMES.
SO IN OUR WORK IN NEW MEXICO, WHEN SOMEONE REACHES US IN ALBUQUERQUE OR THROUGHOUT THE STATE, WE ENCOUNTER FOLKS WHO HAVE BEEN EXPELLED MULTIPLE TIMES UNDER TITLE 42, BUT FINALLY WERE ABLE TO ACCESS THE ASYLUM SYSTEM AND ARE NOW PROCEEDING IN THAT SYSTEM.
SO IT HAD A HUGE IMPACT ON FOLKS TRYING TO SEEK SAFETY.
THEY WERE PUSHED BACK INTO MEXICO, SUBJECTED TO VIOLENCE THAT MIGRANTS ARE SUBJECTED TO THERE, SO IT HAD QUITE AN IMPACT ON ACCESS.
>> Gene: I CAN IMAGINE.
ALGERNON, FOR IMMIGRANTS AND MIGRANTS LIVING HERE IN NEW MEXICO ALREADY, IS THERE ANY BOUNCE FROM THIS, SO TO SPEAK, ANYTHING THAT WE SHOULD BE AWARE OF FROM FOLKS THAT ARE ALREADY HERE?
>> Algernon: WELL, JUST THAT THERE ARE STILL NGOs AND PEOPLE IN COMMUNITIES HELPING PEOPLE WITH NEEDS ASSESSMENTS, MAKING TRAVEL ARRANGEMENTS, IF NEEDED.
WHAT STRIKES ME IS THAT HISTORICALLY, THERE WAS A TIME WHEN WE ACTUALLY HAD A FAMILY CASE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM TO WORK WITH PEOPLE WHILE THEIR CASES WERE IN PROCESS.
WE DID NOT HAVE THE SYSTEM OF DETENTION CENTERS THAT WE SEE.
WE HAD A SYSTEM WHERE SOMEBODY CALLED YOU UP AND SPOKE SPANISH OR WHATEVER YOUR LANGUAGE WAS AND SAID, DO YOU HAVE EVERYTHING YOU NEED, HERE'S YOUR COURT DATE, ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE YOUR COURT DATE?
AND THE DATA THAT I SAW WAS THAT THAT WAS MUCH LESS EXPENSIVE THAN WHAT WE DO NOW.
IT WAS ALSO PHENOMENALLY SUCCESSFUL.
AND SOME OF THE COMPANIES, THE CONTRACTORS, THAT WERE INVOLVED IN THIS SYSTEM OF FAMILY CASE MANAGEMENT APPROACH WERE THE SAME CONTRACTORS THAT ARE NOW KNOWN FOR RUNNING THESE DETENTION FACILITIES FOR MIGRANTS.
CORECIVIC I THINK WAS ONE OF THEM.
AND WE JUST MOVED AWAY FROM THAT TO SOMETHING THAT IS A LOT MORE EXPENSIVE/LUCRATIVE.
BUT IN THE MEANTIME, WE DO HAVE LOCAL BORDER COMMUNITIES SERVING THAT GAP, CHURCHES AND NONPROFITS, THAT ARE STILL DOING THAT WORK AND HELPING FAMILIES, AND IN SOME PLACES EVEN THE INDIVIDUAL UNACCOMPANIED MINORS.
>> Gene: YOU ANTICIPATED A QUESTION.
THANK YOU FOR MENTIONING THAT.
I WANT TO BOUNCE THAT TO SOPHIA REAL QUICK.
BORDER TOWNS, ALGERNON MENTIONED COLUMBUS WHERE HE'S AT, WHAT'S BEEN THE SITUATION FOR BORDER TOWNS?
IS IT GETTING BETTER?
IS IT SAFER FOR MIGRANTS AND IMMIGRANTS IN NEW MEXICO NOW?
WHAT'S GOING ON?
>> Sophia: THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION, AND I THINK OFTEN THE QUESTION IS FLIPPED.
ARE MIGRANTS CAUSING PUBLIC SAFETY CONCERNS IN THESE BORDER TOWNS, AND THE ANSWER IS, ABSOLUTELY NOT.
BY AND LARGE, BORDER CITIES HAVE BEEN WELCOMING CITIES.
THE CITIES HAVE BEEN CROSS-NATIONAL, FOR EXAMPLE, BECAUSE COMMUNITIES ARE SPLIT ACROSS THE BORDER.
AND SO THERE'S A WELCOMING SENSE AMONGST ORDINARY FOLKS WHO LIVE IN THESE BORDER TOWNS.
BUT WHAT'S WINNING THE NARRATIVE ARE OFTEN FROM WHITE NATIONALISTS WHO ARE NOT IN THESE BORDER TOWNS.
AND TO THE EARLIER POINT ABOUT CASE MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS, YES, IT'S 100% -- WELL, NOT 100%, BUT IT'S MUCH CHEAPER TO WELCOME PEOPLE WITH DIGNITY AND HOLISTICALLY PROVIDE FOR THEIR NEEDS THROUGH CASE MANAGEMENT, SOCIAL SERVICES, LEGAL ACCESS, AND IT'S WAY MORE EXPENSIVE TO ENGAGE IN THESE CARCERAL POLICIES, ENFORCEMENT POLICIES ALONG THE BORDER.
AND ALL THAT DOES IS PUSH PEOPLE FURTHER INTO THE SHADOWS AND CAUSES MORE CHAOS.
>> Gene: I CAN IMAGINE THAT.
THANKS TO OUR LINE PANELISTS RIGHT THERE.
WE'LL BE BACK IN ABOUT 15 MINUTES TO TALK ABOUT THE SHIFTING NATIONAL LANDSCAPE FOR IMMIGRATION.
>> Baur: THE POINT IS THAT WE'VE CREATED THE CRIMINAL COURT SYSTEM UNFORTUNATELY AS ONE OF THE ONLY WAYS TO ADDRESS THESE SOCIAL ISSUES, AND IT IS UNDERFUNDED FOR ALL OF US, IT IS UNDERSTAFFED.
AND SO THERE IS A BUREAUCRACY OF THE COURTS AND THE JAILS, AND WE STRUGGLE TO KEEP UP.
OUR PROBLEM, AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE TRIED TO ADDRESS WITH THIS BILL, IS TO MAKE THINGS MOVE MORE QUICKLY SO THAT IT ACTUALLY SERVES THE COMMUNITY BETTER.
>> Gene: AT VALLES CALDERA, THE NATIONAL PARK’S SERVICE IS TRYING TO BALANCE ACCESS WITH PROTECTING WILDLIFE AND ECOSYSTEMS, AND CHANGES MIGHT BE COMING SOON.
LAST WEEK WE HEARD FROM WATCHDOG TOM RIBE FROM CALDERA ACTION.
THIS WEEK, OUR LAND’S LAURA PASKUS SITS DOWN WITH VALLES CALDERA NATIONAL PRESERVE SUPERINTENDENT JORGE SILVA BAÑUELOS AS THE PARK SERVICE WORKS ON A NEW MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR THE SPECIAL SPOT IN THE JEMEZ MOUNTAINS.
>> Laura: HI, AND WELCOME.
>> Silva: THANK YOU.
THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> Laura: SO YOU OVERSEE WHAT'S ARGUABLY ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SPOTS IN NEW MEXICO, 89,000 ACRES IN THE JEMEZ MOUNTAINS.
AND NATIONAL PARK SERVICE OVERSEES IT NOW, BUT IT HAS A LONG HISTORY WITH VARIED MANAGEMENT.
WHAT HAS MADE MANAGEMENT OF THIS AREA SO COMPLICATED, OR WHAT MAKES IT UNIQUE?
>> Silva: YOU KNOW, I AGREE, IT'S A VERY INSPIRING LOCATION.
THE LANDSCAPE IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST STUNNING IN NEW MEXICO, AND HAVING GROWN UP IN ALBUQUERQUE, I'VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRAVEL ALL AROUND NEW MEXICO AND THIS IS BY FAR MY FAVORITE PLACE AND WHY I'M SO PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS LOCATION.
IT HAS A REALLY INTERESTING HISTORY DATING BACK INTO THE 19th CENTURY WHEN IN ABOUT 1860, IT BECAME A PRIVATE LAND HOLDING, AND IT'S BEEN UNDER KIND OF DISPUTE OVER HOW IT'S MANAGED EVER SINCE.
THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE FIRST TRIED TO ACQUIRE VALLES CALDERA IN 1898, AND OVER THE CENTURIES THEY TRIED MULTIPLE TIMES, AND IT WASN'T UNTIL 2015, OR 2014 THAT THAT OCCURRED.
BUT OVER THAT TIME, I THINK THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DIFFERENT INTERESTS, WHETHER FROM PRIVATE RANCH LANDOWNERS TO DIFFERENT FEDERAL AGENCIES INTERESTED IN IT, TO STATE GOVERNMENTS INTERESTED IN MANAGING IT, TO TRIBAL ENTITIES INTERESTED IN OWNING AND MANAGING IT.
SO I THINK THAT JUST -- FOR ME, THAT TENDS TO INDICATE HOW SPECIAL IT IS, THAT SO MANY PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN MAKING SURE THAT THE LONG-TERM FUTURE IS PROTECTED FOR IT.
>> Laura: BACK WHEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WAS GETTING READY TO BUY THE PRIVATE RANCH, I WAS PRETTY EXCITED BECAUSE I HAD KIND OF PEERED INTO THOSE LANDS FOR A LONG TIME, AND I HAVE TO ADMIT I STILL AM NOT QUITE SURE -- AND I'M LIKE PRETTY SAVVY ABOUT PUBLIC LANDS AND RECREATION.
I'M STILL NOT QUITE SURE, LIKE, WHAT MY OPPORTUNITIES ARE FOR DOING COOL THINGS AT VALLES CALDERA.
>> Silva: WELL, I THINK THE PARK WEBSITE IS PROBABLY THE FIRST PLACE TO LOOK AT WHAT ALL WE OFFER CURRENTLY, GIVEN THOSE LIMITATIONS WITH INFRASTRUCTURE AND SERVICES.
BUT RIGHT NOW, A LOT OF THOSE OPPORTUNITIES ARE RELATED TO SELF-GUIDED RECREATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES.
WE HAVE HUNDREDS OF MILES OF HIKING TRAILS THAT ARE ALSO OPEN TO HORSEBACK RIDING AS WELL AS MOUNTAIN BIKING.
THAT TENDS TO BE A LITTLE BIT UNIQUE WITHIN THE NATIONAL PARK SYSTEM.
MOST NATIONAL PARKS DON'T ALLOW MOUNTAIN BIKING EXCEPT ON PAVED ROADS.
BUT TO SOME DEGREE, WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE LEMONADE OUT OF LEMONS.
THE PRIVATE LAND USE HISTORY IS CHOCK FULL OF EXAMPLES OF EXPLOITATION OF THIS LANDSCAPE.
WE HAVE OVER A THOUSAND MILES OF LOGGING ROADS FROM THE 20th CENTURY.
A LOT OF THOSE LOGGING ROADS END UP BEING VERY SUITABLE FOR SOMETHING LIKE MOUNTAIN BIKING THAT ISN'T GOING TO CREATE ANYMORE DISTURBANCES OR IMPACTS TO NATURAL CULTURAL RESOURCES.
SO THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT OPPORTUNITY THAT WE CAN PROVIDE THAT OTHERS CANNOT.
WE ALSO HAVE OTHER OPPORTUNITIES WITH OUR INTERPRETIVE PROGRAMMING.
WE'RE STARTING TO BUILD THAT UP WHERE WE'RE PROVIDING RANGER LED TALKS AND WALKS, AS WELL AS MORE NONPERSONAL EXHIBITS OUT IN THE LANDSCAPE TO SHARE WHY THIS PLACE IS MORE THAN JUST A PRETTY LANDSCAPE, BUT HAS DEEP HISTORICAL ROOTS IN NEW MEXICO, WHY IT'S OF INCREDIBLY SACRED AND CEREMONIAL IMPORTANCE TO NUMEROUS AMERICAN INDIAN TRIBES AND PUEBLOS, AND THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE ALSO HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND AS WE ARE DEVELOPING RECREATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES, THAT WE'RE BALANCING THE PRESERVATION OF THOSE VALUES.
>> Laura: YOU'VE BEEN GETTING SOME PUSHBACK FOR A NEW ONLINE RESERVATION SYSTEM.
THAT'S 35 DAILY BACK COUNTRY VEHICLE PERMITS.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN, AND HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO VISIT?
>> Silva: WELL, IN 2021, WE HAD ABOUT 76,000 VISITORS, AND FROM OUR VISITATION STATISTICS IN 2015, WHEN WE FIRST STARTED TAKING OVER AS THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, WE ESTIMATED THERE WERE ABOUT 30,000.
SO WE'VE SEEN A MARKED INCREASE ALREADY.
I BELIEVE THAT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO GROW, PARTICULARLY AFTER WE IMPROVE OUR INFRASTRUCTURE AND SERVICES.
BUT THERE'S A BALANCE, AS I'VE SHARED BEFORE.
WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO GO WITH OUR GENERAL MANAGEMENT PLAN RIGHT NOW IS FIRST LOOK AT OUR ZONING MANAGEMENT, AND THIS IS SIMILAR TO ANY CITY OR TOWN WHERE YOU IDENTIFY WHERE IS THERE RESIDENTIAL ZONING, WHERE IS THERE COMMERCIAL, WHERE IS INDUSTRIAL, AND YOU DON'T NECESSARILY WANT TO MIX THOSE.
IN THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, WE DO A SIMILAR TYPE OF ZONING MANAGEMENT, AND WE'VE IDENTIFIED CERTAIN AREAS IN A PRELIMINARY FASHION WHERE WE WANT TO FOCUS MORE ON THAT VISITOR ENGAGEMENT ZONE WHERE MOST OF OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, MOST OF OUR VISITOR SERVICES ARE GOING TO BE LOCATED.
AND THEN AS YOU BRANCH OUT FROM THOSE LOCATIONS, YOU HAVE A SELF-GUIDED ZONE AND THEN A BACK COUNTRY SELF-RELIANCE ZONE.
AND THE FARTHER YOU GO FROM THESE VISITOR ENGAGEMENT ZONES, THE LESS INFRASTRUCTURE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE, THE MORE PRIMITIVE, THE MORE WILD EXPERIENCE.
AND FOR OUR BACK COUNTRY SELF-RELIANCE ZONE, WE'RE FRANKLY NOT PRIORITIZING HUMAN USES, WE'RE PRIORITIZING ECOSYSTEM SERVICES, WILDLIFE HABITAT, PLANT HABITAT, AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT MAKE THIS PLACE EXTREMELY SPECIAL.
SO WHEN YOU GO OUT INTO THE BACK COUNTRY, WE DON'T WANT IT TO BECOME A DISNEYLAND.
WE'VE HEARD MANY, MANY TIMES OVER THE YEARS, THIS PLACE IS SO SPECIAL, WE DON'T WANT IT TO BE LOVED TO DEATH.
AND SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE TRYING TO FOCUS MORE OF OUR VISITATION IN OUR FRONT COUNTRY WHERE WE CAN HAVE MORE INFRASTRUCTURE, CONCENTRATE VISITORS, CONCENTRATE ANY IMPACTS THAT THOSE VISITORS MAY HAVE, AND LEAVE THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE PRESERVE IN A MORE PRIMITIVE WILD STATE.
SO WHEN IT COMES TO OUR BACK COUNTRY VEHICLE PASS, WE WANTED TO MOVE IT ON TO ONLINE RESERVATION SERVICE SO WHETHER YOU'RE COMING FROM ALBUQUERQUE OR ANCHORAGE, ALASKA, YOU HAVE THE SAME ABILITY TO RESERVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THAT BACK COUNTRY EXPERIENCE.
AND THAT ALSO GOES TOWARDS THAT NATIONAL PARK EXPERIENCE, THAT IF YOU'RE COMING FROM OUT OF STATE OR EVEN INTERNATIONALLY, THAT YOU CAN FIND THESE OPPORTUNITIES TO HAVE EQUITABLE ACCESS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEM.
IN TERMS OF THE 35 LIMIT, THAT'S A LEGACY FROM THE PRIOR FEDERAL AGENCY MANAGING THE PRESERVE.
IN OUR GENERAL MANAGEMENT PLAN, ONE OTHER ASPECT WE'RE GOING TO BE WORKING ON IS OVERALL CARING CAPACITY.
AGAIN, GROUNDED IN THAT ZONING MANAGEMENT.
THAT 35 MAY CHANGE.
IT MAY GO UP, IT MAY STAY THE SAME.
WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN THAT FAR YET IN OUR GENERAL MANAGEMENT PLANNING PROCESS YET.
BUT WHERE WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS WILL BE BASED ON, ONE, SAFETY OF VISITORS.
RIGHT NOW, THAT BACK COUNTRY ROAD IS A ONE LANE DIRT ROAD, SO IT DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF CARRYING CAPACITY AS IT STANDS.
BUT ALSO, WHAT ARE THE VALUES THAT WE'RE TRYING TO MAINTAIN.
WHAT ARE THOSE FUTURE DESIRED CONDITIONS THAT WE WANT TO MAINTAIN IN THE BACK COUNTRY, AND NOT MAKING THIS A PAVED ROAD WHERE, YOU KNOW, ALL OF OUR VISITORS CAN DRIVE BACK THERE, THAT WOULD CHANGE THE FEELING AND EXPERIENCE OF OUR BACK COUNTRY SIGNIFICANTLY.
AND FROM WHAT I'VE GATHERED FROM OUR PUBLIC SCOPING AND CIVIC ENGAGEMENT, AS WELL AS TRIBAL ENGAGEMENT, I GET THE DISTINCT IMPRESSION THAT PEOPLE WANT TO PRESERVE THOSE VALUES IN THE BACK COUNTRY.
AND SO IT'LL BE A FUNCTION OF FINDING THAT RIGHT BALANCE OF HOW MANY VISITORS CAN WE SUSTAIN IN THE BACK COUNTRY WHILE MAINTAINING THOSE VALUES.
>> Laura: SEEMS LIKE THAT BALANCE CAN BE REALLY TRICKY, THOUGH, BECAUSE I CAN -- I'M CURIOUS IF PEOPLE CAN'T, ESPECIALLY NEW MEXICANS, CAN'T EXPERIENCE THOSE LANDS FIRSTHAND, IF THEY DON'T GET THE BACK COUNTRY PERMIT IN TIME, OR THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WHEN THEY GET THERE, POTENTIALLY IT MAKES PEOPLE LESS INTERESTED IN PROTECTING IT FOR THE LONG-TERM.
SO I'M CURIOUS HOW THE PARK SERVICE CAN BALANCE THAT.
BECAUSE IT REALLY DOES SEEM LIKE PEOPLE WANT TO GET IN THERE, BECAUSE WE LOVE OUR PUBLIC LANDS.
SO HOW DO YOU BALANCE THAT?
>> Silva: WELL, THERE'S TWO THINGS.
ONE, IN THIS PROCESS, WE'RE TRYING TO EXPAND HOW FAR VISITORS CAN GO IN THEIR VEHICLES WITHOUT ANY SORT OF A PERMIT OR PASS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
AND FOR THE LONGEST TIME, WHEN IT WAS A PRIVATE RANCH, THAT ACCESS WAS LIMITED TO NEW MEXICO STATE ROUTE 4 ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE VALLES GRANDE.
WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO MOVE OUR PRIMARY FRONT COUNTRY VISITOR ENGAGEMENT ZONE IS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE VALLES GRANDE, WHERE THAT CAN SERVE AS A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT OF DEPARTURE FOR VARIOUS RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THE PARK UNIT.
AND WE HAVE A LOT OF OTHER CULTURAL AND NATURAL VALUES THAT WE CAN SHOWCASE, LIKE AN OLD GROWTH FOREST, A HISTORY GROVE IN THAT AREA, A MID 20th CENTURY RANCH AREA WITH A NUMBER OF HISTORIC CABINS IN THAT LOCATION.
AND FROM THERE, WE HAVE A NUMBER OF TRAILHEADS WHERE YOU CAN GO BEYOND THAT.
THE TWO POINTS THAT I THINK ARE REALLY IMPORTANT, I THINK WE GET CAUGHT UP ON, WE NEED A VEHICLE, WE NEED A CAR TO EXPERIENCE OUR PUBLIC LANDS, AND I DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE WITH THAT.
THAT BACK COUNTRY PASS IS ONLY FOR VEHICLES.
IF YOU ARE ON A MOUNTAIN BIKE, IF YOU'RE ON FOOT, IF YOU'RE ON HORSEBACK, YOU DON'T NEED ANY VEHICLE PASS, YOU DON'T NEED ANY SORT OF BACK COUNTRY PASS TO GO BEYOND THAT LOCATION.
SO IT'S HOW DO WE ENGAGE WITH OUR PUBLIC LANDS MAYBE IN A DIFFERENT WAY THAT IT'S NOT SO CAR CENTRIC.
AND AGAIN, THIS IS HOW WE TRY TO PRESERVE THOSE VALUES AND EXPERIENCES THAT PEOPLE CAN HAVE IN DIFFERENT FORMS.
BUT FROM OUR GENERAL MANAGEMENT PLANNING, WE ARE SEEKING TO EXPAND QUITE CONSIDERABLY HOW FAR PEOPLE CAN DRIVE INTO THE PARK UNIT, AND THEN HAVE TRAILHEADS AND PARKING AREAS IN THOSE AREAS WHERE THEY CAN SERVE AS POINTS OF DEPARTURE TO OTHER AREAS WITHIN THE PARK WHERE PEOPLE CAN GO HIKING, MOUNTAIN BIKING, HORSEBACK RIDING.
RIGHT NOW, THE 35 VEHICLE LIMIT, AS WE'VE IDENTIFIED IT, IT'S NOT CREATING ANY SORT OF LIMITATION FOR PEOPLE WANTING TO GO INTO THE BACK COUNTRY.
IF YOU GO ON REC.GOV RIGHT NOW, ALL OF OUR DATES ARE STILL AVAILABLE THAT HAVE BEEN OPENED UP SO FAR.
SO I DON'T BELIEVE WE HAVE EXCEEDED OUR CAPACITY FOR VISITATION, PARTICULARLY AS MOST VISITORS ARE COMING FOR ONE TO TWO HOURS AND WE HAVE AMPLE OPPORTUNITIES AND EXPERIENCES THAT WE CAN PROVIDE IN OUR FRONT COUNTRY WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO INTO THE BACK.
OVER TIME, AGAIN, WITH THE GENERAL MANAGEMENT PLANNING, WE DO HAVE A DESIRE TO EXPAND OVERNIGHT CAMPING AND BACKPACKING OPPORTUNITIES.
THAT WILL CREATE AN ADDITIONAL OPPORTUNITY TO EXPERIENCE THE BACK COUNTRY AND BE OUT THERE FOR MULTIPLE DAYS.
AGAIN, A DIFFERENT WAY OF EXPERIENCING IT THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE A VEHICLE.
>> Laura: THANK YOU.
I CANNOT WAIT TO GET OUT THERE WITH A BACKPACK SOME DAY SOON.
>> Silva: EXCELLENT.
>> Laura: THANK YOU.
>> Silva: MY PLEASURE.
>> GENE: WELCOME BACK TO OUR PANEL.
WITH THE FALL OF TITLE 42, MIGRANTS HAVE FEW OPTIONS UNDER A DIFFERENT SECTION OF THE FEDERAL CODE CALLED TITLE 8 BEFORE REACHING AMERICA'S BORDERS.
THEY CAN SEEK HUMANITARIAN PAROLE.
THEY CAN TRY AND GET AN APPOINTMENT AT A BORDER CHECKPOINT BY A NEW APP CREATED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OR TRY TO CROSS ILLEGALLY.
FIRST OPTION, PAROLE, IS LIMITED TO 30,000 PEOPLE PER MONTH.
AND TENDS TO FAVOR WEALTHIER MIGRANTS WITH CONNECTIONS IN THE U.S.
THE LATTER TWO, CROSSING ILLEGALLY AND APPLYING VIA THE APP BOTH REQUIRE APPLYING FOR ASYLUM.
SO, SOPHIA HOW DOES ONE APPLY FOR ASYLUM?
WHAT IS THAT PROCESS LIKE THESE DAYS?
IS A PHONE APP FEASIBLE IN THIS WORLD?
OR IS THAT JUST A BAND-AID?
YOUR TAKE ON THIS.
>> Sophia: THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF CHANGES TO IMMIGRATION POLICY UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION AND THEY HAVEN'T BEEN POSITIVE.
EACH STEP HAS BEEN THROUGH A STRICT ACCESS TO THE ASYLUM SYSTEM.
SO IN THE WAKE OF LIFTING TITLE 42, THE ADMINISTRATION HAS SAID THEY WILL EXPAND THE USE OF EXPEDITED REMOVAL WHICH EXISTS UNDER TITLE 8, THE IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY ACT, AND THAT COVERS OUR ASYLUM PROVISION.
EXPEDITED REMOVAL IS NOTHING NEW.
IT HAS ALWAYS EXISTED AND WHAT HAPPENS IS WHEN PEOPLE ENTER THE UNITED STATES, THEY ARE PLACED IN EXPEDITED REMOVAL.
IF THEY STATE THEY ARE AFRAID TO RETURN TO THEIR COUNTRY OF NATIONALITY, THEY ARE PLACED INTO CREDIBLE FEAR PROCEEDINGS WHERE THEY HAVE TO SAY THEY ARE ELIGIBLE FOR ASYLUM UNDER THE LAW.
AND IF THEY PASS THIS CREDIBLE FEAR INTERVIEW THEY CAN FINALLY ACCESS THE ASYLUM SYSTEM.
IF THEY FAIL, THEY ARE DEPORTED UNDER EXPEDITED REMOVAL AND SUBJECTED TO A FIVE YEAR BAN ON ENTRY.
NOW, THAT HAS ALWAYS EXISTED.
WHAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE IS CREATE NEW REGULATIONS WHICH MAKE IT HARDER TO MEET THAT INITIAL SCREENING FOR THE CREDIBLE FEAR PROCESS, HARDER TO ACCESS THE ASYLUM SYSTEM.
THEY HAVE STATED THAT IF YOU CROSS THROUGH A THIRD COUNTRY, WHICH IS TYPICALLY MEXICO, YOU ARE DEEMED INELIGIBLE FOR ASYLUM UNLESS YOU CAN ESTABLISH AN EXCEPTION AND THESE ARE VERY NARROW EXCEPTIONS.
>> Gene: WHAT ARE SOME OF THOSE EXEMPTIONS?
>> Sophia: IF YOU HAVE BEEN SUBJECTED TO HUMAN TRAFFICKING.
IF AT THE TIME OF ENTRY YOU WERE EXPERIENCING A SIGNIFICANT MEDICAL EMERGENCY OR FACING SEVERE HARM.
THAT IS A VERY HIGH STANDARD TO MEET BUT PEOPLE ARE FACING HARM IN MEXICO.
SO IT IS TO BE SEEN HOW THIS WILL BE APPLIED BY ASYLUM OFFICERS ALONG THE BORDER.
IN TERMS OF ANOTHER EXCEPTION, THE OTHER EXCEPTIONS ARE APPLYING FOR AN APPOINTMENT THROUGH THE CDC1 APP.
WHICH IS REQUIRING MIGRANTS TO UPLOAD DOCUMENTS, UPLOAD THEIR PHOTOS THROUGH AN APP THAT HAS SECURITY CONCERNS AND THAT IS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN GET AN APPOINTMENT AT THE PORT OF ENTRY.
>> Gene: THAT IS THE ONLY WAY?
>> Sophia: THAT IS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN GET AN APPOINTMENT AT THE PORT OF ENTRY.
SO IT IS REQUIRING DUE PROCESS THROUGH AN APP WHICH IS JUST UNIQUELY AMERICAN AND THE WORSE POSSIBLE WAY.
PEOPLE ARE FLEEING VIOLENCE AND ARE FORCED TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS THAT DOESN'T EVEN RESEMBLE DUE PROCESS.
THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO GO TO A PORT OF ENTRY AND SAY CAN I PLEASE HAVE ASYLUM, I AM IN DANGER HERE IN MEXICO, IN DANGER IN MY HOME COUNTRY, SO IT IS BLOCKING OFF THE ASYLUM SYSTEM.
>> Gene: DO WE HAVE A SENSE OF WHERE MEXICO IS COMING FROM AT THIS TIME POLITICALLY ON THIS IN THEIR POLICY?
ARE THEY BEING COOPERATIVE IN THIS IDEA?
THEY JUST WENT THROUGH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION THAT WAS DIFFICULT FOR THEM.
IS THERE A BIT OF BOUNCE IN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, OR COULD IT BE BETTER, THE RELATIONSHIP?
>> Sophia: THERE APPEARS TO BE COOPERATION FROM THE MEXICAN AUTHORITIES TO RECEIVE THOSE WHO ARE SUBJECTED TO EXPEDITED REMOVAL.
THEY ARE RECEIVING PEOPLE FROM COUNTRIES NOT FROM MEXICO, FOR EXAMPLE, UNDER THE EXPEDITED REMOVAL PROCESS.
WITH THAT SAID, THE HUMANITARIAN INFRASTRUCTURE IN MEXICO IS NOT SUFFICIENT TO MEET THE NEEDS OF MIGRANTS AND ASYLUM SEEKERS WHO ARE SUBJECTED TO TREMENDOUS VIOLENCE.
JUST LOOK AT THE FIRE NOT THAT LONG AGO IN JUAREZ.
42 PEOPLE DIED.
>> Gene: OH, BOY.
I FORGOT ALL ABOUT THAT.
THAT IS RIGHT TOO.
ROBERTO WE HAVE BEEN SO MOVED FOR YEARS BY YOUR PHOTOGRAPHS DOCUMENTING MIGRATION.
AND THE BORDER.
WHY IS THIS WORK SO IMPORTANT TO YOU AND WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW, TO FEEL, TO UNDERSTAND THROUGH YOUR WORK?
>> Roberto: IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN IMPORTANT ISSUE EVER SINCE I STARTED WORKING THE BORDER IN 2000.
PEOPLE ALSO NEED TO UNDERSTAND THESE ARE CURRENT SITUATIONS THAT ARE SO DIFFICULT TO MANAGE.
ALL THESE FOLKS ARE LEAVING THEIR HOMES, LEAVING FAMILY BEHIND DUE TO VIOLENCE AND I THINK THEY NEED TO BE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY AT LEAST TO REESTABLISH SOME SENSE OF DECENCY, TO MAYBE, ONE DAY, FROM THE MANY FOLKS I SPOKE TO, THEY WISH THEY COULD GO BACK IN TIME.
BECAUSE, GO BACK, BUT, THE WAY I SEE IT, IT IS GETTING MORE DIFFICULT AND MORE DIFFICULT.
BUT, I THINK IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO DOCUMENT, TO BE ON THE GROUND TO PUT A FACE ON THIS STRUGGLE AND THIS ISSUE THAT IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY ANY TIME SOON.
AND MORE THAN ANYTHING, LISTEN, LISTEN TO WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY.
AND I AM THERE TO PUT A FACE, TO DESCRIBE, SHOW, ILLUSTRATE THE HUMAN NEED, THE HUMANITARIAN NEED TO UNDERSTAND IMMIGRATION ON A MUCH BETTER SCALE.
>> Gene: HOW FAR OFF ARE WE IN GENERAL UNDERSTANDING?
COMPLETELY OFF, A LITTLE BIT OFF?
>> Roberto: I WOULD SAY WAY OFF.
WE DON'T UNDERSTAND THE SITUATIONS IN THESE COUNTRIES.
EVERYONE KIND OF GROUPS THEM TOGETHER BUT EACH COUNTRY IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW.
LIKE GUATEMALA, YES, THERE IS VIOLENCE BUT THERE IS ALSO CLIMATE CHANGE HAPPENING WHICH IS STARTING TO ADD TO THIS WHOLE EQUATION.
HONDURAS ALSO, BESIDES GANGS, GANG VIOLENCE, A LOT OF PEOPLE I SPOKE TO, AT SOME OF THE SHELTERS, THEY ARE FLEEING BECAUSE OF CLIMATE CHANGE.
THEY CAN NO LONGER WORK THEIR LAND, SO, IT IS GETTING MORE COMPLEX.
>> Gene: IT SOUNDS IT.
ALGERNON BEFORE I WRAP UP HERE, I MENTIONED THE NATIONAL MOOD.
LISTEN, A COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION BILL HAS NOT REACHED THE PRESIDENT'S DESK IN THIS 21ST CENTURY.
I MEAN WE HAVEN'T MOVED BUT AN INCH HERE.
THE LAST BIPARTISAN IMMIGRATION REFORM PASSED 1986, THE IMMIGRATION REFORM AND CONTROL ACT.
AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, WHAT NEEDS TO CRACK HERE?
WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN?
>> Algernon: IT SPEAKS TO A PROFOUND FAILURE OF OR POLITICAL SYSTEM.
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WORK SERIOUSLY IN POLICY WHO ADMIT THIS IS A CHALLENGING PROBLEM.
IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO BUILD A SYSTEM THAT CAN ACTUALLY ACCOMMODATE THE NEED IN AN ORDERLY FASHION.
BUT IT ALSO REQUIRES WHAT WE CALL LEADERSHIP AND REAL POLITICAL COURAGE TO STRAIGHTEN THIS OUT.
WHEN TITLE 42 WAS ABOUT TO EXPIRE, WE WERE WARNED FROM THE WHITE HOUSE TO EXPECT CHAOS, THAT IS THE WORD THAT THE WHITE HOUSE USED TO DESCRIBE THIS, BUT THE CHAOS IS NOT NEW.
THE CHAOS IS THE CLIMATE CHANGE OF THE FARMING FAMILIES THAT NO LONGER HAVE LAND.
IT IS THE PEOPLE WHO REALIZE THEIR KIDS ARE BEING RECRUITED BY GANGS AND HAD NOTHING TO DO EXCEPT THROW WHAT THEY COULD INTO A BACKPACK AND START WALKING.
WHAT WE HAVE SOMEHOW MANAGED TO DO BY PUTTING BAND-AIDS ON IT AND POSTPONING THE REAL SERIOUS WORK, WE HAVE NOW CREATED SYSTEMS THAT NOT ONLY PERPETUATE VIOLENCE AND ENRICH CRIMINAL, SYNDICATES.
WE HAVE SOMEHOW MANAGED TO CREATE A CAST SYSTEM WITHIN MIGRANTS WHO ARE DESPERATE ENOUGH TO WALK ACROSS CONTINENTS.
WE HAVE SOMEHOW MANAGED A WAY TO CREATE A SOCIAL CLASS STRUCTURE WITHIN THIS TORMENTED GROUP.
AND THAT IS REALLY SAYING SOMETHING ABOUT OUR WISDOM AND OUR LEADERSHIP.
>> Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.
THANKS AGAIN TO THIS ENTIRE PANEL THIS WEEK FOR HELPING VIEWERS UNDERSTAND THIS COMPLEX SET OF ISSUES AND THE HUMANITY UNDERNEATH THEM.
BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THIS DISCUSSION ON OUR FACEBOOK, TWITTER AND INSTAGRAM.
CATCH ANY EPISODES MAY HAVE MISSED ON THE PBS APP, ROKU OR SMART TV.
FINALLY TONIGHT, CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM AT THE LEGISLATURE.
2023 WAS A PRETTY LIGHT YEAR ON THAT FRONT WITH A FEW NOTABLE EXCEPTIONS.
ONE MEASURE THAT DID GET THROUGH HAS BEEN YEARS IN THE MAKING, SENATE BILL 84 WOULD HAVE MADE IT TOUGHER TO LOCK UP PROBATIONERS AND PAROLEES, FOR TICKY TACK VIOLATIONS LIKE MISSING APPOINTMENTS OR FAILING A DRUG TEST, BUT DESPITE A RELATIVELY EASY PATH THROUGH BOTH CHAMBERS, GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM VETOED THE BILL.
EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR SAT DOWN WITH A PROSECUTOR AND PUBLIC DEFENDER TO ASK WHETHER THE GOVERNOR DID THE RIGHT THING AND THE REAL PROBLEMS UNDERNEATH SO-CALLED TECHNICAL VIOLATIONS.
>> Jeff: BEN BAUR, MARCUS MONTOYA, THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING ME HERE TODAY.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.
>> Jeff: WE ARE HERE TO TALK ABOUT TWO GUBERNATORIAL VETOES ON CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM BILLS.
YOU EACH WROTE AN OP-ED ABOUT THOSE VETOES.
BEN, YOU ARE A PUBLIC DEFENDER, MARCUS A PROSECUTOR, TO THE GALLOPING SHOCK OF EXACTLY NOBODY, YOU GUYS DISAGREED.
SO, LET START'S WITH BASIC DEFINITIONS.
MARCUS, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PROBATION AND PAROLE AND WHAT IS THE ROLE OF BOTH OF THOSE THINGS IN THE SYSTEM?
>> Montoya: ALL RIGHT.
GOOD QUESTION.
SO, PROBATION UPON PLEA AGREEMENT OR ENTRY OF GUILT OR FINDING OF GUILT AT TRIAL, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A SENTENCE AND THAT SENTENCE CAN BE PROBATED, WHICH MEANS YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SERVE ANY TIME IN INCARCERATION.
THAT'S THE NUTS AND BOLTS OF A BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF HOW PROBATION IS GOING TO OPERATE.
SO YOU ARE ON TERMS AND CONDITIONS TO COMPLY WITH THE COURT AND BE MONITORED TYPICALLY BY PROBATION AND PAROLE.
IF YOU VIOLATE THOSE CONDITIONS, IT'S THE DISCRETION TO POTENTIALLY CHANGE YOUR CONDITIONS OR REVOKE YOUR CONDITIONS OF RELEASE AND INCARCERATE YOU.
PAROLE IS WHEN YOU HAVE SERVED TIME IN INCARCERATION AND YOUR NOW RELEASED FROM THAT TIME AND SO NOW YOU ARE UNDER PAROLE SUPERVISION, BY THE PAROLE BOARD OF THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS.
>> Jeff: SO, THERE ARE TWO FORMS, ESSENTIALLY, OF STATE SUPERVISION OUTSIDE OF INCARCERATION CONTEXT.
>> Montoya: THAT IS CORRECT.
>> Jeff: FOR YEARS, WE HAVE HEARD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHAT ARE CALLED TECHNICAL VIOLATIONS.
MARCUS DESCRIBED CONDITIONS THAT YOU'LL HAVE WHETHER ON PROBATION OR PAROLE AND WE HAVE HEARD IN INTERIM COMMITTEES AND DURING LEGISLATIVE SESSIONS ABOUT TECHNICAL VIOLATIONS FOR YEARS.
WHAT IS A TECHNICAL VIOLATION OF PROBATION AND PAROLE AND WHAT ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF HOW YOU CAN DO THAT.
>> Baur: THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
SO, WHEN YOU'RE ON PROBATION OR PAROLE THERE ARE CERTAIN CONDITIONS YOU HAVE TO MEET.
SHOWING UP TO SEE YOUR PROBATION OFFICER OR PAROLE OFFICER.
PROBABLY NOT DOING DRUGS, NOT COMMITTING NEW CRIMES, THINGS LIKE THAT, THINGS THAT ARE GENERALLY CONCERNED WITH PUBLIC SAFETY.
TECHNICAL VIOLATIONS ARE THINGS THAT ARE LESS IMPORTANT.
THEY STILL MAY BE CONDITIONS AND THEY STILL MAY BE IMPORTANT BUT IT IS THINGS LIKE MISSING AN APPOINTMENT, OR HAVING A POSITIVE RESULT ON A DRUG TEST.
SO, ALTHOUGH YOU HAVEN'T HURT ANYBODY, YOU MAY HAVE DONE DRUGS AND THAT SHOWED UP ON A TEST.
THE WAY THE SYSTEM HAS WORKED TRADITIONALLY IS SOMEBODY GETS ACCUSED OF THAT AND THEN THEY ARE ARRESTED AND HELD IN JAIL UNTIL THEY GET A HEARING ON IT.
THAT CAN TAKE DAYS, WEEKS OR EVEN MONTHS.
IN THE MEANTIME, THERE IS ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED TO SOMEBODY THAT IS IN CUSTODY THAT WE COULD TALK ABOUT A LITTLE BIT LATER, BUT THE POINT OF TRYING TO HANDLE TECHNICAL VIOLATIONS DIFFERENTLY IS THAT YOU ACTUALLY GET TO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO WITH A PERSON TO ADDRESS IT RATHER THAN WAITING FOR THOSE DAYS AND WEEKS AND MONTHS AND ALL THE DAMAGE THAT CAN DO.
>> Jeff: THE RESULT OF A TECHNICAL VIOLATION OR STANDARD VIOLATION OF PROBATION AND PAROLE HAS BEEN HISTORICALLY IN MANY CASES RE-INCARCERATION, RIGHT?
SO I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, MARCUS, FROM YOUR OP-ED PRAISING THE GOVERNOR'S VETOES OF THESE TWO BILLS WE'RE HERE TO TALK ABOUT TODAY, YOU MENTIONED THAT BY DOING THAT, BY SORT OF GETTING RID OF WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED WITH TECHNICAL VIOLATIONS UNDER SB84, THAT THE GOVERNOR HELPED WITH COMMUNITY SAFETY.
SO, HOW DOES LOCKING PEOPLE UP ON THESE TECHNICAL VIOLATIONS BOLSTER COMMUNITY SAFETY?
>> Montoya: I THINK THERE MAY BE A MISUNDERSTANDING IN TERMS OF USE, RIGHT.
IF I CAN GO BACK TO WHAT YOU SAID, A LOT OR MANY OR MOST OF THESE TECHNICAL VIOLATIONS RESULT IN INCARCERATION.
NOT NECESSARILY.
ACTUALLY I WOULD ARGUE THEY DON'T USUALLY END UP IN INCARCERATION UNLESS THERE IS A PAROLE WARRANT FOR ARREST TO BRING THEM IN LIKE MR. BAUR'S OUTLINED.
THEY DO HAVE TO WAIT IN JAIL UNTIL THEIR HEARING.
SO I AM NOT GOING TO CONTEST THAT BUT IF THEY ARE MINOR PROBATION OR MINOR PAROLE TECHNICALS, THERE WILL BE A FILING OF A VIOLATION BY PROBATION AND PAROLE.
OUR OFFICERS REVIEWS IT.
WE FILE FOR A HEARING AND TYPICALLY, MOST OF THE TIME, THOSE PROBATIONS ARE REVOKED, THEY GET REINSTATED UNDER SIMILAR CONDITIONS, SO IT IS KIND OF A YOU NEED TO COMPLY WITH CONDITIONS IS THE ADMONISHMENT FROM THE COURT.
NOW, IT IS MULTI-FACETED HOW IT PROTECTS THE COMMUNITY.
TO ME THE GRADUATED STEPS AND SANCTIONS THAT THE PROBATION AND PAROLE BILL WOULD ADVISE FOR KIND OF AN AUTOMATED SYSTEM, I JUST DON'T HAVE A LOT OF VALUE IN ADDING MORE COMMUNITY SERVICE, POTENTIALLY.
AND COMMUNITY SERVICE IS GOOD GENERALLY BUT IF WE HAVE AN OFFENDER NOT COMPLYING WITH CERTAIN TERMS AND CONDITIONS NOT THREATENING, NOT RELATED TO PUBLIC SAFETY, NONVIOLENT, I DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE OR NEED AN AUTOMATED SYSTEM TO IMPOSE MORE CONDITIONS, SUCH AS YOU NEED TO DO 20 HOURS OF COMMUNITY SERVICE.
WE ARE ALREADY STRUGGLING TO HAVE THIS OFFENDER COMPLY WITH CONDITIONS.
I DON'T SEE THE VALUE IN MANDATING MORE OR ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS.
OR FIVE DAYS OR THREE DAYS OF JAILER OR SEVEN DAYS OF JAIL.
TO ME, I DON'T WANT TO IDENTIFY IT AS INHERENTLY BAD, IT IS JUST IT DOESN'T VALUE THE OFFENDER, DOESN'T VALUE THE SYSTEM.
IT DOESN'T PROTECT MY COMMUNITY ANY MORE OR LESS AND I WOULD ARGUE IT IS MORE BURDENSOME AND ONEROUS ON THE OFFENDER.
MY CONCERN IS THERE ARE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF SUPERVISION FOR DIFFERENT TYPES OF OFFENDERS.
AND I THINK IT SHOULD BE LEFT WITHIN THE DISCRETION OF THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY, PROSECUTOR AND JUDGE IN THAT DISTRICT ON THAT PARTICULAR CASE TO DETERMINE THE OUTCOME OF CERTAIN VIOLATIONS.
AND NOT BEING HANDCUFFED OR RESTRICTED BY WHAT IS PROPOSED IN THIS BILL.
IF THAT MAKES ANY SENSE, BECAUSE IF I AM GOING TO AGREE TO A PROBATED SENTENCE UP FRONT, AND THAT IS MY ONLY OPPORTUNITY UNDER THIS BILL TO IMPOSE A INCARCERATION OR JAIL TIME, AND IF I DON'T DO INITIAL SENTENCING, I AGREE TO PROBATE AND SENTENCING, BUT THEN HAVE TO JUMP THROUGH THESE HOOPS, I AM LESS INCLINED TO AGREE TO A PROBATED SENTENCE.
THERE A LOT OF AGGRAVATING THINGS MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES TO HOW I STRUCTURE A PLEA AGREEMENT AND AGREE TO SENTENCES AT THE OUTSET.
>> Jeff: OKAY.
BEN, I WANT YOU TO RESPOND TO THAT.
>> Baur: YEAH, SO, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK MR. MONTOYA AND I AGREE ON A NUMBER OF THINGS.
ONE OF THE THINGS WE STRUGGLE WITH IS THAT THERE ARE SOCIAL ISSUES OUT THERE, BEHAVIORAL HEALTH ISSUES AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE WHICH UNDERLIE A LOT OF CRIMES, NOT ALL OF THEM, BUT MOST OF THE CRIME THAT TAKES PLACE.
AND LET'S -- I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE NEED TO DO IS DEFINE WHAT PUBLIC SAFETY.
THAT MIGHT BE A LONGER PROGRAM BUT REALLY WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE CRIMINAL COURT SYSTEM IS SUPPOSED TO DO, IT IS SUPPOSED TO KEEP US SAFE.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
IT MEANS THERE ARE CERTAIN LAWS PASSED THAT YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO VIOLATE.
DON'T HIT PEOPLE.
DON'T HARM PEOPLE.
DON'T STEAL THINGS, ALSO DON'T WALK AROUND WITH DRUGS IN YOUR POCKET.
DON'T DRIVE AROUND WITH DRUGS IN YOUR CAR.
DON'T HAVE DRUGS IN YOUR HOUSE.
NOW, THE USE OF DRUGS CAN LEAD TO PEOPLE COMMITTING CRIMES, SOMETIMES AGAINST FAMILY, SOMETIMES AGAINST OTHER PEOPLE AND THOSE CAN BE REALLY SERIOUS CRIMES, BUT THE POSSESSION ITSELF, FOR INSTANCE, DOESN'T NECESSARILY HARM ANYBODY OTHER THAN THE PERSON THAT HAS THEM AND EVEN THEN IT IS NOT NECESSARILY -- DOESN'T NECESSARILY HARM SOMEBODY.
UP UNTIL JUST ABOUT A YEAR AGO IT WAS ILLEGAL TO POSSESS MARIJUANA.
NOW IT IS NOT.
WE HAVE CHANGED IT AS A SOCIETY.
THE POINT IS WE HAVE CREATED THE CRIMINAL COURT SYSTEM UNFORTUNATELY AS ONE OF THE ONLY WAYS TO ADDRESS THESE SOCIAL ISSUES AND IT IS UNDERFUNDED FOR ALL OF US, UNDERSTAFFED AND SO THERE IS A BUREAUCRACY OF THE COURTS AND THE JAILS AND WE STRUGGLE TO KEEP UP.
OUR PROBLEM AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TRIED TO ADDRESS WITH THIS BILL IS TO MAKE THINGS MOVE MORE QUICKLY SO THAT IT ACTUALLY SERVES THE COMMUNITY BETTER.
>> Jeff: I SEE.
I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE NOTION OF MOVING THINGS LIKE DRUG ADDICTION AND OTHER SORT OF SOCIETAL PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE AWAY FROM THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE CONTEXT.
WHAT ARE SOME OF THE SOLUTIONS?
AND I WANT YOU BOTH TO WEIGH IN HERE.
WHAT ARE SOME OF THE SOLUTIONS THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF THIS CONTEXT?
AND WHY ARE THOSE NOT PRIORITIZED?
>> Montoya: WE ARE NOT WELL SITUATED IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM TO DEAL WITH SOCIAL PROBLEMS, SUCH AS ADDICTION.
AND WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM?
INCAPACITATE, REHABILITATE, DETER.
NOT A WHOLE LOT OF REHABILITATION IS AVAILABLE BUT THE LAW ENFORCEMENT IS A DIVERSION ON MONIES WHERE WE AS A COUNTY AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND LAW ENFORCEMENT THROUGH THE PROSECUTORS OFFICE AND DEFENSE BAR OUTLINE CRITERIA OF OFFENSES THAT ARE NONVIOLENT WHEREBY AN OFFENDER QUALIFIES, AT THE POINT OF POTENTIAL ARREST, TO A CASEWORKER TO HELP ADDRESS THEIR ISSUES.
WHETHER IT BE SOCIOECONOMIC, MENTAL BEHAVIORAL HEALTH, SUBSTANCE MISUSE DISORDER.
AND THOSE ARE PROGRAMS WHERE I AM ALL FOR IT.
DON'T GIVE ADDICTS TO US TO FIX, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT THE FIXER.
WE SERVE THOSE THREE PRONGS.
AND WHEN IT BECOMES VIOLENT OR DANGEROUS, I THINK THAT IS THE BEST PURPOSE OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM IS TO INCAPACITATE.
>> Jeff: WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THINGS LIKE "WE", RIGHT, LIKE NEW MEXICO IS KIND OF BEHIND THE REST OF THE COUNTRY IN TERMS OF LIKE DEVELOPING WEED PROGRAMS.
WE HAVE SEEN THOSE IN OTHER PLACES IN THE COUNTRY.
YOU MENTIONED ONLY SEVEN COUNTIES HERE HAVE ONE OF THOSE NOW.
MY REAL QUESTION, WHAT I AM TRYING TO GET AT, IS WHY HAVEN'T WE MADE THOSE KIND OF PRIORITIZATIONS AMONG POLICY MAKERS AND OTHERS GIVEN THE STATISTICS HERE, GIVEN WHERE WE STAND ON THINGS LIKE OVERDOSE DEATH RATES?
WHAT ARE THE POINTS OF FAILURE THERE?
>> Baur: TO DEAL WITH THESE ISSUES, AGAIN, WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT AND I MENTIONED WHAT I CONSIDER THE BUREAUCRACY OF THE COURT SYSTEM WHICH IS A PRETTY CLUNKY MECHANISM TO ADDRESS SOCIAL ISSUES AND INDIVIDUALS WITH PROBLEMS, YOU KNOW, OFTEN OUR CLIENTS AND PEOPLE WHO MR. MONTOYA IS TRYING TO DEAL WITH, WHOSE FAMILY MEMBERS SOMETIMES COME TO HIM AND ASK FOR HELP.
GENERALLY ON THE SPECTRUM OF LIKE ARRESTS AND IN THE PAST A LOT OF THE CONTEXT HAS BEEN WITH POLICE, RIGHT?
SOMEBODY CALLS THE POLICE AND THEY SHOW UP.
I THINK IN NEW MEXICO WE ARE NOT NECESSARILY BEHIND THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.
UNFORTUNATELY THE COUNTRY AS A WHOLE IS PRETTY FAR BEHIND ON WHAT WE DO AND THERE ARE SOME PROGRAMS, LAW ENFORCEMENT ASSISTED DIVERSION IS A GOOD ONE.
ALBUQUERQUE COMMUNITY SAFETY PROGRAM HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE, WHICH IS DESIGNED WHEN SOMEBODY IS IN A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS SEND OUT SOMEBODY THAT IS NOT A UNIFORMED OFFICER, SOMEBODY WHO IS TRAINED IN MENTAL HEALTH.
SO THERE ARE SOME REALLY GOOD PROGRAMS, I THINK, IN NEW MEXICO GOING ON.
BUT WHAT WE ARE CONCERNED WITH AS THE PUBLIC DEFENDER IS GETTING PEOPLE TO SOMEHOW GET BETTER, TO NOT IMPACT PUBLIC SAFETY, TO NOT HURT OTHER PEOPLE OR THEMSELVES WITHOUT RUNNING THEM THROUGH THE BUREAUCRACY OF THE COURT SYSTEM.
IN THE MIDDLE OF THE COURT SYSTEM IS JAILS AND PRISON AND OUR JAILS AND PRISONS ARE IN SUCH BAD SHAPE, I BELIEVE, THAT THEY OFTEN DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD.
AND THAT IS WHY WE HAVE LOOKED FOR WAYS TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT AND/OR SHORTEN THE TIME THEY ARE IN.
>> Gene: THE GOVERNOR VETOED ANOTHER REFORM BILL THIS YEAR, TOO.
THAT ONE IS RELATED TO SENTENCING ENHANCEMENTS FOR PEOPLE CONVICTED OF DRUG POSSESSION.
CHECK OUT JEFF'S DISCUSSION WITH MR. BAUR AND MR. MONTOYA ON THAT VETO OVER AT THE NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS YOUTUBE PAGE.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK AND FOR STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.
SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK IN FOCUS.
