Funding for New Mexico in Focus is provided by viewers like you.

>>Nash: This week, on New Mexico in Focus, yet another city law aimed in part at addressing homelessness in Albuquerque is drawing fire.

It can affect them by making them constantly be moving.

They won't be able to rest or catch their breath.

They're, you know, and I wonder if people that aren't unhoused will be treated the same way in their safety.

>>Nash: And we'll learn how Strength in community is helping kids traverse the International District on their way to school.

New Mexico in focus starts now.

Thanks for joining us, I'm Nash Jones.

It is official, school is back in session.

And while you won't find a primer on hot school supply deals on this news program, tonight we will bring you a back to school story a little more our flavor.

Albuquerque consistently tops the list of the most dangerous cities to walk or bike in the nation.

And while that dreadful reality affects people of all walks of life, it also poses a unique risk to kids heading to and from school.

So later, we are going to gather a panel of city and neighborhood leaders to talk through some new and innovative projects to help Albuquerque's youngest commuters get to school on time and unscathed.

But we start tonight with a look at a different group of sidewalk users in a different city initiative to change how people use public space.

Back in May, the Albuquerque City Council voted 6 to 3 in favor of the Enhanced Services and Safety Zone Ordinance, better known as the Sidewalk Ordinance.

And while the mayor didn't sign it.

He also didn't veto it, so it went into effect a month later.

The policy allows the city to designate zones in commercial areas of the city where sitting, lying, sleeping, or camping on the sidewalk would be a crime.

Tonight, we have invited the sponsor of that ordinance to sit at the table with a community organizer opposed to the approach.

But before we hear from them, we wanted to learn more about what it's like to be without shelter in Albuquerque and the barriers to getting off the street.

To get that perspective, I sat down with Tiffany Leger, the founder of the Albuquerque Homeless Union, who just a few years ago, was living outside herself.

>> Nash: Tiffany, thanks so much for being on New Mexico in focus.

It's fair to say that most policies that affect homeless people, policies and laws are created by people who've actually never been unhoused.

What do you think that does to the policies that they create?

>> Leger: I think that it hinders unhoused folks more and more every day, and they lose hope more and more every day because of these policies and procedures that are put into place.

If you're not unhoused, you don't think of some of the barriers that arise.

Being unhoused because you're fortunate enough to have somewhere to store your belongings all day.

You're fortunate enough to, you know, not have to watch your back, that the cops are going to come and make you move from when you're sitting.

So without lived experience.

Nobody ever understands certain barriers.

And I get that all the time.

When I talk to officials, city officials, state legislators, senators.

Like, I get that all the time.

Like, I would have never thought that that was a barrier.

And I'm like, because you've never been unhous >> Nash: You experienced homelessness a few years back.

What do you think that people and not just policymakers like you're talking about now, but the general public who have never had to do that?

What do you think they get wrong about the experience of being unhoused?

>> Leger: That not everybody wants to be unhoused?

Not everybody wants to be on the street doing drugs.

That's like the biggest myth out there as well as homeless people are not all under one umbrella.

Every homeless person is an individual, and they have their own individual story.

And they're not all thieves.

They're not all, you know, druggies, and they're not all bad people.

And I think that that's a bad stereotype that they get.

>> Nash: Can we talk a little bit more about what you█re saying about not everybody wants to be out there?

I think an argument that I'll hear from elected officials and otherwise is that there are services in Albuquerque, but people are refusing them, that there's beds available in the shelter, for instance.

But people won't go.

What do you say to to that argument?

>> Leger: I ain't saying that when when somebody told me one day when you're treated like an animal, you start to believe you're an animal.

And that's how folks feel.

They get treated at the Westside shelter.

I haven't heard very many good stories that come out of the West Side shelter.

I've never stayed there personally, but just the way that staff treats them, the way that there was one gentleman who wasn't allowed on the bus to come into town because he was blind and didn't have a guide, so they wouldn't let him on the bus for two years to come into town and just don't think that's right.

Like at all.

>> Nash: You mentioned the West Side shelter.

What about the new Gateway Center?

>> Leger: I think that everybody that I know that's been through there has been kicked right back out to the street, because there's no housing for them in 90 days when their programs up.

So I know of about 4 or 5 folks personally that have been put back out on the street after being at Gateway East for 90 days.

>> Nash: I asked Mayor Keller last year about his administration's approach to encampment sweeps.

The fact that we've heard of instances of folks throwing people's things away, precious items, IDs, like you mentioned, he said that in cases that that's happened, it was against policy.

Those people were held accountable.

And he also said that it is city policy that everyone is first offered services, transportation and storage, which you've already mentioned.

How is Mayor Keller's account in line with or not with what you're actually seeing out there?

>> Leger: I don't think it is at all.

Every morning and under first and I want about 7 a.m.

come solid waste and APD and they block off the street telling you to pack up your things and give you 2 to 3 minutes to pack up all your belongings.

And if somebody tries to stop and help you, then they tell them that they'll be detained.

Then they need to keep moving.

And then as you're packing up, they'll start throwing things away.

But they don't throw everything away.

There are plenty of things that solid waste puts to the side that they want to take for themselves.

You don't see going to the trash truck, so it's just it's stealing from the homeless.

And I think that it's just wrong.

>> Nash: In your experience is that consistently happening.

People are throwing people's possessions away consistently with these encampment sweeps.

Do you ever see that not happen?

And what about these the offer of storage that they're supposed to be offering people?

>> Leger: Well, I know that the policy just changed and they're supposed to if you're belongings are left unattended, then they're supposed to automatically store them.

And I know of 3 or 4 instances in the past two weeks where that hasn't happened at all.

And so people are losing their things, and then they got to start to get them all over every day.

And it's just an endless cycle.

And like you said, it's family heirlooms.

It's letters from your family.

It's, you know, your cell phone, which is like the biggest lifeline out here.

So.

>> Nash: Right because paint the picture for folks who have never been in this situation.

If you don't have a cell phone, what does that do to creating barriers to actually accessing services?

>> Leger: Well, if section eight calls you on a phone number that you don't exist at, but call you three times, mail you a letter, and nine times out of ten you don't get the letter because you don't have a mailbox.

And then they kick you off the list and you have to start from ground zero.

But most people don't even know that they've been kicked off the list.

So here they are thinking they've been waiting all this time for housing, and then they finally go in to check.

And they haven't been on a list in two years.

So comes a three year wait list to start all over again.

>> Nash: And if people are charged, or they're arrested?

They may have a court appearance.

>> Leger: Probation officers can't get Ahold of them.

Interviews, case managers.

I'm trying to put I'm trying to work with the city right now to start a voicemail bank to help with, but not having a cell phone on the street.

So it would be a generalized 505 number that you can call from anywhere in the world.

And you would put in your five digit voicemail bank number like a Po box, and you'd be able to check your messages that people leave for you.

>> Nash: So Albuquerque has this new ordinance, the Enhanced Services and Safety Zone Ordinance.

It's known colloquially as the Sidewalk Ordinance, and it criminalizes sitting, lying, sleeping, or camping in certain areas.

How could this new ordinance affect the lives of the people that the Union represents?

>> Leger: It can affect them by making them constantly be moving which causes heat exhaustion, damaging their feet?

A lot of folks have bad feet, and it just makes them worse, and they won't be able to rest or catch their breath or, you know, and I wonder if people that aren't unhoused will be treated the same way in these safety.

>> Nash: Right because it doesn't it doesn't specify these are unhoused people.

It's people who are sitting, lying, camping.

>> Leger: So I wonder if they're going to put that into effect.

Like if, you know, your average person was just sitting on the sidewalk waiting for some money, if they would treat them the same way that they wouldn't unhoused person because nine, 9 or 10 times, it doesn't happen that way.

>> Nash: You wrote in a recent opinion article in the Albuquerque Journal that we should measure every policy by one simple question.

Does this make it easier for someone to get housed or harder?

From your perspective, does the sidewalk ordinance make it easier or harder for somebody to be housed?

>> Leger: Much harder.

>> Nash: How so?

>> Leger: They got to keep moving.

They can't ever sit still long enough to make a phone call or have a conversation with an outreach person.

That may mean their.

>> Nash: And what would you like to see the city do?

Instead, what would be an example of an approach that would make it easier for somebody to be housed, >> Leger: Reaching people where they are, not just giving them a resource card and saying, here I call this place.

I think we need a lot more peer navigators in the city.

>> Nash: And for folks who aren't familiar with that, what would a peer navigator be?

>> Leger: Somebody who hold your hand and takes you to the HSV office to fill out your paperwork?

Somebody that'll take you somewhere to fill out a housing voucher application?

So many that'll take you down to Social Security to get your Social Security card, somebody to kind of hold your hand and help you do things.

>> Nash: Because these systems are complicated, >> Leger: They are very.

>> Nash: So helping you navigate it.

And when you say appear, this would be somebody with lived experience, someone who knows where that person is coming from.

>> Leger: Yeah, they have I believe it's a minimum of three years of sobriety under their belt and some mental.

That's what I'm looking for.

>> Nash: Mental health supports.

>> Leger: Yeah so they would be able to kind of understand me more like when you say that what craving.

They know what you mean.

And they're not just going to look at you and judge you.

>> Nash: How has the Albuquerque Homeless Union responded to this latest ordinance step that the city has taken, >> Leger: Trying to figure out if there's ways that folks can sit and not, you know, with their amendment or something, and they can stay and not have to be moving all the time.

>> Nash: and do you go to other councilors besides the folks who voted for this or how are you?

How are you getting your perspective heard?

>> Leger: I just enter spaces and just I just talk to people.

When I run into somebody on the other day, I run into somebody that works with City Council, and they were with somebody from the county.

And so I just started having conversation.

And every time I talked to folks, it's like an eye opener, like a light bulb goes off like, oh, yeah, you're right.

Like, that could be why?

Like somebody was talking about we didn█t Understand why folks destroy their houses when they do get vouchers, when they move in and they don't understand why they destroy them and, you know, bust into the walls.

And I said, well, think about it.

You've been out on the street where there's all this noise 24/7, and then you take me from my community and everybody, and you put me in this house by myself with nothing, until you're able to obtain furniture and things like that.

As then some of these people are already mentally unstable, and then you hear the electricity zooming through the walls.

So you may think it's something else.

And so you're trying to find the source of that.

And so that may be why so many.

And they were like, oh, I always wondered I never I never thought of it that way.

But because you've never been in that situation.

>>Nash: Thanks to Tiffany Leger for sharing her perspective on being unhoused in Albuquerque and helping us route any discussion of policy in the lived reality of those who would bear its brunt.

But let's go ahead and jump into that policy debate now.

Community advocates have railed against the Sidewalk ordinance since before the council even passed it.

And its sponsor, progressive councilor for downtown Albuquerque Joaquin Baca, says he's been frustrated by what he believes is misinformation about what the policy does and doesn't do.

So we invited him to sit at the table with a community organizer opposed to the ordinance, Doctor Lisa Christopherson of the New Mexico Stronger Together coalition, to hash out the reality of the situation, the impact the policy could have, and whether it's the right move for Albuquerque >> Nash: Counselor Baca, Dr.

Christofferson, thank you so much for being here.

>> Both: Thank you.

>> Nash: So, councilor, you said that you feel like there is some misinformation about with the ordinance.

So let's try to start on the same page.

What does the Safety Zone ordinance do?

>> Baca: Right, so -- three quick things.

One, people have said that this is a anti-homeless bill.

Completely false.

This is to address multiple issues, gun violence, regular violence so many different things other than just the unhoused.

And there's violence among the unhoused as well.

Let's be clear on that.

Two, very quickly, when this was passed, folks were saying, in fact, Ms.

Christopherson was part of this, that it is now illegal to be on the sidewalks.

You cannot camp on the sidewalks.

And let's organize protests on the sidewalks.

>> Nash: Well, what does the Ordinance say about being on the sidewalks?

>> Baca: So -- the Ordinance is enacted, but the Ordinance doesn't say in the city there's a blanket ban on anything.

What it says is it gives the mayor a set of tools to say within this designated zone, there are enhanced -- You can do bans on sidewalks -- as long as it's within ADA compliance.

And of course, free speech -- >> Nash: Criminal enforcement, being lying, sitting, camping on the sidewalk in that designated zone?

>> Baca: Yes.

Standing, yes.

And part of this is when we think about, say, I use downtown as my example just because it's the easiest -- >> Nash: It█s your district.

>> Baca: Yeah.

You know, in the last two and a half years, we've had something like 55 homicides just downtown, right?

That doesn't include how many people were shot, because not everybody, fortunately, not everybody dies.

You cannot ban guns, right?

I can't even get reasonable gun restrictions in place.

And if you look at the data, it is almost always under 21, happening late at night, right?

Certain hours after midnight on Saturdays and Sundays.

I can't even do a curfew, like that was ruled “unconstitutional” 29 years ago with Senator Dede Feldman.

But I can say, you don't have to go home, but you can't hang out here.

with the 30 other people who also have guns at the moment.

And so that's part of what this comes from.

Like, we don't want you hanging out on the sidewalks where people are drinking, where there's a proliferation of guns and weapons with young kids whose brains haven█t fully formed yet, We want to address those sorts of things.

>> Nash: Right.

Now, Dr.

Christopherson your coalition opposes the Ordinance.

Can you break down why?

>> Christopherson: Sure, the Ordinance says that it is illegal to sit, lie, sleep on the sidewalk.

And there's no -- I know that we talked about, you know, for protesting for constitutional and explicitly, it is not stated explicitly in the bill that it would not be used against protesters, etc.

anyone who's resting, it doesn't distinguish, so it's not distinct.

We think the bill is not fully cooked, that we should come back, revisit parts of that with the mayor.

It's the mayor's bill.

The mayor should step up.

It's very weak leadership on his part.

It█s a harmful bill.

So our opposition is in four different spots.

So four different reasons.

>> Nash: Okay.

>> Christopherson: Because of the increased police violence that happened right after and was already occurring because of the previous ordinances that make it illegal to encamp and to be basically exist on our public streets, etc.. Parks -- If you're in poverty, where are you supposed to go?

So, the increased police violence statistically has -- I mean, right after the bill gets implemented, 132 people that week are arrested.

Those citations, the tickets -- We're all thrown out, right?

So, is it really helping us keep safe?

We think it increases police violence.

We're concerned about that.

The second thing is it's the least effective approach to reducing homelessness, incarceration and involving more police.

>> Nash: And why is that?

Can you break that one down?

>> Christopherson: The least effective?

>> Nash: Yeah.

>> Christopherson: Yes.

Okay, so we did we had a series of public forums that we had city officials, we had state, we had county, we had folks who were unhoused, who had previously had lived experience being unhoused, who are currently unhoused.

And we put together a report that we gave everybody.

We sent it to all of the city councilors, county commissioners.

And in this report, this is data from New Mexico from Albuquerque.

It talks about the homelessness in Albuquerque.

And so what we are citing in there is -- the home -- we have to decide is it homes first or treatment first.

So there's -- two different approaches nationwide and New Mexico, Albuquerque has chosen this mayor, has chosen treatment first.

So we've had nine years of treatment first.

So I would not say that the build is necessarily in and of itself because it is needed.

We do have people sleeping on the streets.

We do have defecation, we do have needles, we do have violence.

It is unsafe.

We have unhoused people who are unsafe.

Like you said, there's crime within the community.

We're just saying that there's more effective, less expensive, less traumatic ways to approach that that we've outlined and here that the experts have said so -- >> Nash: Okay.

I would like to give the counselor a chance to respond to that.

>> Baca: So -- I█m glad to hear you think this is needed.

It's just not fully cooked.

I appreciate that.

It's not the mayor's bill.

He didn't sign it.

He did have substantial -- his team had substantial -- support in here.

They put in quite a bit of the more the enforcement portions of this.

But it was it was mine.

This came from meeting with my counterparts in Denver, Las Vegas, Tucson, Councilor Watson in Denver in particular.

His sister was unhoused and died on the streets.

And he was very much, “I will not allow that to happen anymore -- under my watch!” And that resonates with me.

I live downtown.

I mean, maybe two months ago, I opened up my garage door to go to work and -- medical examiner was parked in front of there -- because unfortunately, a woman had passed away and we didn't even find her for a week because she was tucked away behind some cars, which is the tragedy of all this, right?

We have people that are suffering and dying on the streets and we need to address that.

So, to Dr.

Kristofferson's point, I agree.

This isn't the most effective thing.

And that would imply that that's the only thing we're doing right, and that█s false, right.

So I've spent quite a few years at this point rewriting the city housing code, the state procurement code, the workforce trust housing code, finding funding from the state and getting it to housing projects.

We now have something like 300 units in the downtown area that are under construction.

The most notable is the Gizmo right now for transitional housing for women coming out of prison, we're attacking the housing component.

We redid the zoning codes to address this, >> Nash: So why not let those things play out?

Why add this in?

What does this contribute?

>> Baca: Because everything is happening simultaneously, right?

We're dealing with 40 plus years of failed federal and state housing policy, 40 plus years of failed federal and state mental behavioral health policy.

We've got -- we recently had nearly a million fentanyl pills, it was found out that, was released into the streets.

You're dealing with active addiction, right.

And Dr.

Christofferson knows this -- Her partner, co-founder of the Stronger Together Coalition, Alex Uballez, is the one who did that.

>> Christopherson: I disgree that he did that -- >> Baca: We have active-- he admitted to it.

He we have active addiction, extreme addiction.

So how do you get somebody who not only won't make that decision, but most times can't make that decision whether they're on drugs or because they're not on their drugs.

I think -- so you have to deal with that.

At the same time you're dealing with housing.

>> Nash: And again, like how does -- how does this speak to that?

Like who asked for this?

Who -- >> Baca: Everybody.

I don█t think -- >> Nash: Who█s everybody?

>> Baca: We need to address housing -- >> Christopherson: Might I interject?

>> Baca: We need to address unhoused, right.

That's something we work with together.

We've talked constantly on this.

We have to address that.

Every person I█ve talked to in the street like, Why is there this?

Why is this happening?

Why can't we fix this?

Businesses constantly -- and I'm not talking like Walmart, Walgreens, I'm talking -- >> Baca: Local folks.

>> Nash: Local business.

>> Baca: Yeah.

“I cannot keep my doors open.” “I cannot stop the theft.” “I cannot stop the destruction.” >> Nash: Okay.

>> Baca: I mean, it's everybody.

This is one of them.

>> Christopherson: We have -- we can -- Can I speak to that?

>> Nash: Please.

>> Christopherson: So, I guess I would ask you, why give more authority and more permission to the deadliest police force in the entire United States?

11 years of the DOJ Acosta Agreement.

No other city in the entire United States has that history.

This is the most deadliest police force.

And so the increase that we can show from the moment, May 3rd, when that bill was signed, didn't go into effect.

And it still is technically not in effect.

However, it was used, right as a tool by the police who were already -- historically, right?

Excessive force.

So of the eight things that were identified in the Acosta Agreement, two of those was Transparency and Excessive force.

Excessive force never went down, in fact, it increased in those 11 years.

Transparency is worse now than it was before, evidenced by the number of lawsuits that the city has to pay for, per IPRA requests.

So I would say, that given that that this is the wrong tool for the wrong people -- if we could talk about that, we have business people, we're working with Adam Silverman and the men downtown some of the men, but the business downtown task force with D6.

I think it would be great if D2 could get in on this task force.

That's what we have in here, is we've -- so the community, the homeless union, Tiffany Ledger, I think you did an interview with her.

>> Nash: I did.

>> Christopherson: We personally from the coalition, I myself interviewed 22 different unhoused folks that we prepared for this.

And the barriers to getting housing are what we need help with in the city for the vouchers for transitional.

But the alternatives that I think we could have simultaneously, I would say, let's please do not give these police this particular force, this tool, maybe what we're talking about with the business.

>> Nash: Let's stick with that for a second, because I think it's a valid point.

Enforcement, Councilor Baca.

What do you have to share about that?

>> Baca: What Dr.

Christofferson says is true, right.

Historically, this is -- the whole DOJ consent came from how they were working with -- not even working, right, violently dealing with people with severe mental behavioral health, right.

And the DOJ -- that police force has gone through that entire process.

It's one of the few times where a Consent Decree was actually dismissed because they've achieved the criteria.

Six of the eight.

That doesn't make it perfect by any stretch.

And I have gone on ride-along█s with APD.

Now -- It's not perfect by any stretch.

We're always going to be in a process to be better.

I haven't seen the statistics she's citing that the minute this was signed, everything exploded.

I don't know if that's true.

I will say this.

You know, again, I'm going to call back, this isn't a Homeless Bill.

This is a Violent Crime Bill in many ways, the Safety Bill.

So, for example, I met with the University of the School of Law, right.

And they did an analysis of all the shootings.

So the homicides over the past -- those numbers haven't gone down, to your point.

What is different is previously they were shooting people with mental behavioral health issues, people that were unarmed.

It was it was bad.

It was wrong.

There's a reason for that Consent Decree -- >> Nash: Is -- >> Baca: That is -- the numbers are the same.

But it's now people with guns.

>> Nash: Is this ordinance being enforced at the moment?

>> Baca: No.

>> Christopherson: Yes.

>> Baca: No.

There is no Safety Zone in the city.

There is -- that's that is a fact.

>> Christopherson: Yes.

>> Baca: There is no Safety Zone in the city -- >> Christopherson: However, the police are using this bill and they're citing this bill.

That's why the tickets got thrown out -- >> Baca: At best, that's anecdotal, >> Christopherson: But the bill, we can -- >> Baca: The Bill doesn't exist!

No one's being addressed with this.

>> Nash: So the bill is enacted, except that it requires that these zones are set up by the mayor?

>> Baca: Yes.

>> Christopherson: With no public input >> Baca: With council approval.

Where there is -- >> Christopherson: No public input, there's nowhere in the bill that says -- >> Nash: Well, the council does need to approve the mayor's zones -- >> Christopherson: Yes, executive memo sent to the City council.

There's nowhere in the bill, as it stated now, which is part of the half-cooked part.

Could we add in a section where -- if he applies a Safety Zone, it comes in a public hearing where the public can say yes to this spot, no to that spot -- >> Nash: Will that be the process?

>> Baca: So the process now it's an executive communication where council has the opportunity to question the mayor and approve or disapprove because A, we want this, we don't want that -- >> Nash: What about the public?

>> Baca: The public always has opportunities to speak at that point during council Dr.

Christopherson is there every week.

The other part to this, which she is admitting is that there is a data.

You must collect data on what's happening and what's being done.

There is a Sunset Clause at two years -- >> Nash: But I think what she's saying is the public -- does the public have input on these zones and where they're going to be -- >> Baca: The opportunity for public input is at city council when its█ presented -- >> Christopherson: Section A of 9238 says, the mayor may designate an enhanced service and safety zone by submitting an executive communication to the City Council.

There is nowhere in here, in this bill that says anywhere that it would go before city Council.

It executively -- >> Baca: Half of it literally says, an executive -- >> Nash: It says the council will then need to approve it.

>> Baca: Yes.

That means it will be a publicly -- it will be publicly available for people to see and read.

>> Christopherson: Two hearings -- >> Nash: Where are we at with that?

Has a zone been drafted?

>> Baca: No.

There is a draft zone.

I have seen it.

Mayor brought it down -- Mayor's team down for me to kind of look at it and have some comments, which I think is appropriate with any district that they do this.

When I submitted my comments.

Here's what I think.

Here's some good things.

Here's some bad things.

I think that's with anything we do -- >> Nash: In the draft?

>> Baca: Yes.

>> Nash: Okay.

>> Baca: When they submit that?

I don't know the date of that.

>> Nash: So you don't know where it is in their process?

They haven't submitted it yet.

>> Baca: They haven't submitted it yet.

When they submit it, it'll be introduced.

People will -- the public will have an opportunity to get a copy of that and see it.

We'll have an opportunity at council to speak to it.

They'll have an opportunity to reach out to their councilors before that meeting to express concerns.

I do this regularly, so there is a public process and it can, or not, be just approval or disapproval by a council.

>> Nash: I do want to spend some time on the penalties that are outlined in the ordinance.

The penalty for violating a written warning, which the ordinance requires first, is up to $500 fines and up to 90 days in jail.

You mentioned Tiffany Leger, the founder of the Albuquerque Homeless Union We heard from her earlier on in the show, and I had asked her about what those penalties could mean for the unhoused community.

And councilor Baca, I know you're saying this is not a Homelessness Bill.

However, they are the ones who would often be the ones laying, sleeping, camping on a sidewalk.

So I do want to play the clip from Tiffany.

>> Leger: They don't have money to pay the fines, and they know that, and they don't have the means to necessarily show up to community service.

And so folks then enter this jail loop and not being able to get a court date in the mail, or a phone call for a court date and catching a warrant, and then the next time you're cited, you go to jail because you have a warrant.

It you're there for 1.2 days and then you're released, and then you have a warrant again, because you missed whatever you were supposed to embark on because you don't get your mail or your notifications.

It's a cruel punishment.

>> Nash: Councilor, Tiffany called the punishment “cruel.” What's your response to that?

>> Baca: So, I have met with Tiffany.

We had lunch not too long ago, her and Mama Zee, actually had a great conversation.

Here's a question -- here's the thing, Part of the bill also says enhanced support services, right?

If an unhoused person is out there and needs help, ACS will go and give them help -- >> Christopherson: But they█re not doing it now.

>> Baca: They do it.

I witness it every day at home.

Now, here's what does happen.

A lot of them don't take those services.

A lot of them can't make the decision to take it.

That█s why we have street medicine that goes out there and tries to help stabilize, so that they make those decisions.

>> Nash: Yeah, is that an argument to then address that issue in -- >> Baca: And that's in the bill that they have to have a written citation or someone go out there and offer services like, here's the thing, you don't have to actually stay there and get a citation.

No one's making somebody sit in front of a doorway.

>> Christopherson: But this is very disingenuous.

>> Nash: Where else are they supposed to go?

>> Christopherson: Yes, exactly!

>> Baca: ACS will take to them Gateway -- >> Christopherson: That is not true.

>> Baca: Yes they will.

>> Christopherson: Not true.

>> Baca: That is 100% true.

>> Nash: Hold on real quick.

>> Baca: We have evidence that show that -- >> Nash: We have like you to answer that question.

>> Baca: We have the data show that ACS puts that out every quarter to counselors.

How many -- >> Nash: But there█s a reason they█re not going.

>> Baca: Yeah, I agree.

>> Christopherson: And that is in this report from the Chief.

>> Nash: Hold on, real quick -- >> Baca: Part of the reason and it's not the full reason, part of the reason is a lot of folks that don't want to or they can't make that decision, whether because they're on drugs, or because they're not taking the drugs that they need to be able to make decisions.

That's fact.

I have been out there on -- this is anecdotally, I've literally been called out to stop assaults on women on the street, and those women then did not want any services.

That's fact.

That's not “maybes” that happens regularly.

So to say, “we're going to punish you immediately,” that's disingenuous because the opportunity for help exists within Albuquerque.

We have -- the Gateway System has almost 1000 beds, at this point.

And it's not just the Gateway System in Albuquerque.

We have multiple providers that we fund and we work with regularly, which provide another 2000 beds -- >> Christopherson: That█s part of our coalition -- >> Nash: We are running out of time.

But Dr.

Christopherson, you've been trying to chime in.

I want to give you a chance to speak.

>> Christopherson: Sure, okay.

So, the citation is 2025.

We had 1,256 times of abstracting the sidewalks.

That's six times more than all eight years before that previously combined.

And with that increase, 2025 to that from May until now, it's six times even more of that.

Is the policing helping or hurting?

We're looking at the pit count.

No.

So ACS, they spoke to us in here.

They do not have the resources that they need.

They're not being called out to all of the mental health -- calls because the dispatch we have -- don't have enough dispatchers, like we have a lot of pieces in this -- and our programs, our system.

I think the intent is to have programs, but it's all in the implementation.

And this mayor is not super great about the implementation part.

So, the ideas are good.

I'm just saying yes, it would be ideal if we had these services, but the reality is we don't have them all the way now.

We don't have the mental health service.

That's not your fault, that█s -- UNM is pulling out of MDC.

>> Nash: The Metropolitan Detention Center.

>> Christopherson: They will not.

Yes.

And so we're sending we're filling the MDC, right, with folks who have mental health problems.

There's not medical over there.

They don't have seven days, 24 hours a day where they can get medicine if they're picked up without their medicine.

So the mental health issues are manifesting much more and we don't have the services, so why enforce it?

>> Nash: We have run out of time.

And I appreciate you both very much coming to the table to hash this out together.

And hopefully we can continue to watch this as these zones get set up and enforcement begins, we can continue this conversation.

I know there's a lot more to it.

So thank you both so much.

>> Baca: Thank you, Nash.

Thank you doctor.

>> Christopherson: Thank you very much.

Your welcome.

We really do need this, like rescind the bill and let's redo it because it has -- like, people are dying.

>> Baca: You haven't seen how it's going to work yet.

And there is data recording in the Sunset Clause in there.

>> Nash: Is there an opportunity to amend the bill once it gets enacted if -- >> Baca: We can -- >> Nash: The community feedback is -- >> Baca: Yeah, that's part of the problem.

That's part of the data collection, right.

We want to know does it work or not work is it detrimental -- >> Christopherson: We already know it's not working.

>> Baca: We don't know that.

It hasn't existed yet -- >> Christopherson: But, they█re using it -- >> Baca: It doesn█t even exist yet.

>> Christopherson: But they're using it -- >> Baca: Not the way it's intended.

If they're not following the guidelines they're not using it.

>> Christopherson: Well, okay, but how do we know if we have ASC -- right now they're supposed to give 48 hours before they take an encampment.

We've brought video -- >> Baca: An encampment is a completely different situation -- >> Christopherson: I understand, but the same people are not following the rules we have now.

ACS is supposed to be called.

They're supposed to be giving time to gather their stuff.

They're supposed to be put it into storage.

None of that is happening now.

So why would we think that all of a sudden, magically, the city is going to change?

And because of this bill, now start doing what they're not doing -- >> Baca: One, I don█t agree with you.

There is opportunities to pick up.

There is opportunities for storage.

That does exist.

I've seen it -- >> Christopherson: Sure, but it's not to the extent for 3000 people -- >> Baca: True, and probably even more than 3000, right?

And it's a city-wide problem, that goes way beyond just this one thing.

And we are trying to, myself included, and I work closely with other councilors to address these issues, whether it's housing, whether it's treatment, these things are being done simultaneously.

And kind of similar to our talk on the busses earlier.

There is a segment of the population that is-- You know, they're worthy of compassion, they're worthy of help, and they are simultaneously hurting themselves and everybody around them and their communities.

And that needs to be addressed with this.

>>Nash: I appreciate you guys, we do have to wrap up.

>>Nash: thank you to Councilor Baca and to Doctor Christopherson for that spirited back and forth about Albuquerque's so-called sidewalk ordinance.

I wish we'd had more time, and I hope they'll come back to debate the impacts when that law gets a little further down the track.

If you have tried to walk across the eastern stretch of Central Avenue in Albuquerque, you know it is a high risk proposition.

In fact, federal data shows a handful of intersections in that part of the city are among the deadliest in the nation.

Now, imagine being an elementary or middle school kid who doesn't have a choice, because those are the routes on the way to school.

Grim, to say the least.

A group of neighbors, along with the city, county, and school staff had seen enough.

So they banded together, got some funding, and came up with a slate of programs safety in numbers, tactics, new tech and the like to fortify the International district streets and alleyways.

I sat down with the area's city councilor, Nicole Rogers, Angelica Archuleta-Romero, a field rep for the mayor's office, and Natalie Vargas, president of the South San Pedro Neighborhood Association, to learn more.

>>Nash: Thank you all so much for joining us here on New Mexico in Focus.

Councilor Rogers, I'd like to start with you.

According to the state transportation Department, the four most dangerous intersections in the city fall in your district.

District six on East central.

And with the fact that the the state is already nationally ranked among some of the most dangerous.

That means those are some of the most dangerous in the country, really.

Why is it so dangerous to be a pedestrian on East Central?

>>Nichole: Looking at the history of how the city was built.

Motor City Central being all about route 66 and the motorists coming through our city.

So it was really built as the main city thoroughfare before there were highways and things like that.

So naturally the built environment is is for cars, not for people.

And so we're having to do a lot of work to change the built environment, to make it safe for multi-modal transportation, not just cars and busses, which is what we've prioritized, but really to think about pedestrians.

Folks with ADA ADA requirements for folks roll in down central and pedestrians especially.

>>Nash: And now, Natalie, you're the president of the South San Pedro Neighborhood Association, which is between San Mateo and Louisiana, right there in the midst of the most dangerous intersections in the state.

And before some of the interventions that we're going to talk about, I'd like you to explain some about the dangers or the risks that students were facing in trying to walk to area schools.

>>Natalie: Well, a lot of kids felt like it was unsafe to just go on their own.

And a lot of parents were fearful of their kids actually walking to schools because of the fact that we have a lot of pedestrian fatalities in our neighborhood.

They were also being approached by a lot of individuals, and that also was an unsafe situation.

And then they were being exposed to a lot of like, needles and trash and unsafe situations.

So we had a lot of parents just voice their concern.

There has to be a better way for our kids to get to school.

>>Nash: Are a lot of students walking to school?

Yes, it is a highly walkable area for our students, >>Nash: Not necessarily walkable in terms of being safe, but a lot of people are walking.

>>Natalie: A lot of parents-- can█t afford a vehicle.

>>Nash: It's a lower income neighborhood as far as Albuquerque is concerned.

Yes it is.

>>Natalie: Yes it is.

>>Nash: And now Angelica, I grew up in Albuquerque.

I walked to elementary school and then biked.

And I actually, when thinking about what kept me safe as I was doing that, it was my crossing guard whose name was Jessie, actually.

And I remember that because he became kind of a friend of mine.

He would walk me across the street every day.

He would joke about whether I had a heater on my bike in the winter.

It was it was a special relationship.

And I think part of that was that he was a trusted adult, somebody who was really looking out for all of us.

What is the role of crossing guards today in the situation that Natalie's laying out, where students don't feel safe walking to school?

>>Angelica: Yeah.

Thank you so much for sharing that story.

I also grew up in the International district, and it was the first place I called home.

When I moved to Albuquerque, I was actually struck by a vehicle on my bicycle on southern heading to Van Buren Middle School.

And so, you know all that to say that had a crossing guard been there, maybe that a situation could have been avoided.

We hear stories all the time from community staff about how excited the kids are.

That's the first face that you know, might be the first face that they see during the day.

It is a symbol of safety.

Folks, are these are our superheroes showing up for our kiddos every day and the extreme New Mexico weather.

They are happy to be there.

They know each other by name.

They are really just a team of folks that are.

Their mission is to get kids to school safely, just like the walking school bus.

And so within our youth and family safety department, we actually employ about 130 to 150 crossing guards across the city, which is quite a lot.

Yeah, if you think about it.

And so we love to be able to support them within all of our departments.

They work really closely with APS.

Shout out to Superintendent Blakey and all of the apps police folks that are supporting this mission.

>>Nash: How does the city and APS work to keep these crossing guards safe while they try to keep our kids safe?

>>Angelica: Yes.

Great question.

So we have lots of great information available every year.

We actually have a our YFS hosts, an all crossing guards meeting where they all gather, they learn about what's new, what's ahead for the school year, talk about some of the new traffic laws that were updated this year.

And really what folks, what the wider community can do is just slow down.

Be patient, put your devices down, and keep in mind that safety is really the important thing here.

>>Nash: Okay, thanks for that.

Councilor Rogers, in addition to crossing Guards City Council, your City Council District is home to a few new efforts, including a new Hawk signal.

This is the high intensity activated crosswalk, and it's over there on San Mateo and Anderson, near Whittier Elementary and Wilson Middle School.

Can you talk a little bit about how that helps things and why why the Hawk signal was put where it was?

>>Nichole: Yeah.

So we this is something that we've been deploying when I first came into office at this corridor was actually the number one corridor in the entire country, according to the Department of Transportation, for for pedestrian deaths.

So immediately we begin to to get the money to put a lot of these into our district.

What we're what we're seeing is that because we're doing participatory budgeting, we were able to highlight this walking school bus, which ties into the alley project, the walking school bus, and making sure that we put things like this that help the route and folks be able to cross safely.

So it's a tie between three different projects that really pushed and in partnership with the administration to get it done.

>>Nash: For those who haven't used one of these things.

And you say it's in the middle of the intersection between lights, how does it work?

Yeah.

So basically what it is is it's it's just like a regular crosswalk.

Right.

But just not at a street light where we're cars are going to be automatically stopped on a schedule.

>>Nash: But it's not just the painted, >>Nichole: No it's not.

So when you see those, you're supposed to click the button.

And I'm going to say, I am the councilor who yells at people on central all of the time saying, press the button.

Yes.

I had a lady like Council Rogers.

And it's not just unsheltered folks.

Like, let's dispel the myth that I hear that, oh, it's so bad over there because it's homeless people or people on drugs that are getting hit.

It's actually not.

We had a city employee, Caleb, who was a 19 year old employee at our Esperanza bike shop who got hit and killed on her bicycle.

So it's not just it's not just who you think it is.

These are it's all walks of life.

>>Nash; Thanks for highlighting And have you seen an impact?

Because this isn't the only hawk signal in your district.

>>Nichole: We have seen an impact.

Now, this year we finally, I mean it's nothing to celebrate, We're still number two.

But because of the innovation in terms of danger, in terms of pedestrian deaths.

And so we've come, you know, we're getting better.

Number two is nothing to celebrate.

But we have saved lives because of interventions like hawk lights in our district.

And we're going to continue to ramp it up.

We've just applied with Councilor Grout for all of East Central for Safe Streets for all grant from the Department of Transportation to work on the ADA compliance.

We didn't have ADA when those sidewalks compliance when those sidewalks were built all those years ago.

We need if you walk, do walk.

We do walk audits every year on central and community members come and we look to see, okay, we're walking.

Oh, no.

Look, the sidewalks too small or you run right into a light >>Nash: Yeah, or you run right into a light pole.

>>Nichole: Exactly right into a light pole.

And somebody has to get off of the onto the road in order for everybody to pass.

So it's not okay.

>>Nash: Now, Natalie, Councilor Rogers mentioned the walking school bus.

Tell us about that initiative.

How does it work?

>>Natalie: We needed to create a safer option for kids to walk to school, and we couldn't just tell them to be careful.

So with the walking school bus we've created that with having children walk with trusted adults to school in the morning.

>>Nash: What's it actually look like?

I mean, I'm almost imagining like like kids holding hands or rope that, you know, what would people see if they saw this coming down the road?

>>Natalie: So they would see two conductors.

There's two conductors that lead the actual bus walking school bus, and the kids actually walk two by two.

And we always make fun of it because we're like two by two if you want to get to school, like, you know, we just make up little funny rhymes for the kids, but it's just like one person in the front to stop traffic.

So it'll be like two, two whistles to stop, one whistle to go for the kids.

And that's how they know.

So it's created a pattern for them.

And we've also just seen neighbors and community along the way.

And it's been really fun.

>>Nash: Has it been popular?

>>Natalie: It's been very popular with the elementary students, with the middle school kids, not so much.

They don't like seeing us or walking >>Nash: I can imagine being sung two by two to get to school in Middle School and maybe being a little embarassed.

>>Natalie: And so that's when we had the alleyway activation that we created and that was the walking school bus.

That was the kids, middle school kids actually walking to field trips within our alleys.

>>Nash: And we're going to get to that a little bit later in the show.

But before we take a moment, a break, Councilor Rogers, my understanding is that this initiative, the walking school Bus, is actually expanding to more schools.

Yes, so we're so excited.

Because of the community's amazing work, APS was able to get a 2.8 Department of Transportation grant to actually take this to over 40 plus schools-- >>Nash: It█s 2.8 Million?

>>Nichole: 2.8 million.

to roll this out to schools across the district, across the city.

Which is exciting, because what this also does, I think, is that all they actually take data that they send to me as a counselor that says, here are all the hazards that we encountered along the way.

And then we were able to work with the administration, with Angelica, to really mobilize city departments, to actually make sure that we're doing the things that we need to be doing in the neighborhoods.

That's not APS responsibility, that's the city's responsibility.

So it's been a really great way for also for us to clean the five blocks around the school and beautify the five blocks around the school based on what the students are asking for.

They asked for harassment free buffer Nash so that when they're walking to school, they're not getting propositioned or say, hey kid, come over here.

>>Nash: Seems like a reasonable expectation.

>>Nichole: Yeah, absolutely.

It's a it's a game changer.

It's going to be huge for our city.

And I'm really grateful for their work and APS seeing it and getting funding to implement it across the whole city.

Right on.

>>Nash: Well, we're going to keep this conversation going here in a little bit, so stick around.

Thank you.

>>Nash: Well, it sounds like that walking school bus program has some legs, if you'll pardon the pun, and could be coming to a school zone near you.

And thanks to the Safe Routes to School Committee for sharing photos of it in action.

But Natalie Vargas, Angelica Archuleta-Romero, and Councilor Rogers have even more programs already online and ideas for building on that momentum when it comes to helping kids who don't ride the bus or in a car to get to school safely.

Next, we explore some of those and what motivated this group to zero in on some neglected back alleys in part two of our conversation.

>> Nash: Welcome back.

Thanks for staying with us to continue this conversation Angelica.

If I could start with you, ahead of the school year starting, the city installed what's known as a rectangular rapid flashing beacon, or RFB at Washington and Roma.

That's right by Zia Elementary.

How do those work and why was that location chosen?

>> Romero: So, according to the Federal Highway Administration, RRFBs can reduce pedestrian crashes by up to 47%.

So we know they work.

The team, our traffic division, takes locations that either are experiencing kind of high incidents and they evaluate that.

So based on traffic volume, number of lanes and speed.

And then they determine that the RRFB was a good treatment for that.

>> Nash: So this is different from the hawk signals we talked about earlier.

What does an RRFB look like.

How does it work.

>> Romero: Yeah.

So it actually has a button that should be activated by pedestrian or anybody who's on a bicycle.

Vulnerable road users is the term.

And it will start off by flashing yellow and then it will follow with solid red lights.

And at that point, that is when you know that folks are crossing, it will eventually turn into flashing red lights.

And then that if the path is clear, that is okay for drivers to continue.

>> Nash: Well, I appreciate you explaining that, and especially if our viewers haven't encountered that, they might not know.

You know, a lot of folks, they took drivers out a long time ago.

Maybe these things weren't around.

What can the city do to educate drivers about these new beacons, about the Hawk signals we talked about earlier, about protecting crossing guards like we talked about earlier?

Where's the kind of the community education, getting folks on board with these so that they work?

Yeah.

>> Romero: So part of my role as a field representative is actually to go out to neighborhood association meetings, presenting at the crossing guard meeting about all of the updated traffic laws and how to use these mechanisms.

And we actually hope that that information is also just spread.

Mouth to mouth.

We have had social media ad campaigns or stop for everyone.

Decals are now on every city vehicle.

They're on our police cruisers or on busses.

>> Nash: Let's stop for everyone Meaning if somebody is going to cross at a corner, you're stopping whether or not the beacon is flashing or not.

Is that.

Is that right?

>> Romero: Yes, treat every corner as a crosswalk.

>> Nash: Okay.

Now, Natalie, your neighborhood, like many across Albuquerque, is is full of alleyways.

A lot of folks who live in Albuquerque may be familiar with that.

What was the risk that you all saw around alleyways for students that were walking to school in your neighborhood?

>> Vargas: The risk that I saw personally when we purchased our home, we bought it for the alleyway activation.

I was unaware of all the hazards that were actually out there when we first purchased our home.

You know, this is just a wall that separates my family from the outside, and I did not see as much before we started this initiative.

What was really happening until there was an incident that actually happened to me and my family.

My son was in the backyard playing.

I heard some noises, adult noises in the in the alley happening, and I noticed that there were two individuals in a vehicle.

And my first instinct, being a mother of daughters, was that there was somebody partaking in politely, quotas.

And I thought, is that a young individual that's in there?

Are they being harmed?

You know, what could I do to stop it?

And I will say that I kind of hit my my hose with them just to separate them, because I needed to ensure that the person that was, you know, involved was not a young person, because I felt like how crazy that that's happening in my own backyard, that this is happening.

And I felt like something has to be done.

And we can't just ask the police to come out all the time and just solve our problems as a community.

We actually need to take back those spaces.

And what does that look like?

So that says is reclaiming our spaces, and that's just turning the alleyways into safer outdoor spaces for our kids and for us safer spaces to walk.

Since the kids sometimes might not feel safe to actually walk on the sidewalk or down the streets, they often take those alleys to get to school or to get home.

So yeah.

>> Nash: And you're calling you're calling this the alleyway activations projects.

What types of cleanup, what kind of revitalization do you do in these alleyways?

>> Vargas: Oh, so first we'll have all the we'll send out a flier to all the neighbors on a block, and we'll come up and identify an alleyway, captain.

And when we do that, we'll have our first alleyway activation, which is a bunch of adults just cleaning the alley.

Our second one is, if the neighborhood is all on board, will spread mulch, and the mulch is to change the soil.

It also keeps the alleys a lot cooler than what they are, so it changes the temperature.

After that.

What we started to do was I wanted to personally have the kids involved, and I thought, what better way than to go ask the local school?

And that's when we went and we talked to the principal of Wilson Middle School and asked them, hey, what do you think?

If we brought the kids into alley and just like, had them paint the walls and do community work, it's stuff that I grew up doing.

And he said, okay.

So I mean, our first activation, we actually had 39 kids.

It was, you know, outdoors.

They walked to the actual field trip.

It was 39 students again.

And they learned about urban agriculture.

They learned how to compost.

There's also restorative justice.

And they paint these most beautiful murals that they come up with.

It's just it's a beautiful sight.

Disease.

>> Nash: Are you seeing a difference since since you clean the alleyways, are people using them more?

Are people feeling safer?

>> Vargas: Yes, we are seeing different.

And it's not just with our alley.

We're seeing other alleys the same that are seeing less trash.

For instance, the Wilson Trailway is actually seen at 80% reduction in trash.

When I've spoken with APD, they said for the first time in 20 years, the crime has gone down or the calls for service in the neighborhood have gone down for the first time in 20 years in our alleys.

So that was amazing to hear.

And we're seeing families.

We're seeing people with their pets going down the alleys.

And it's not just me, it's all the neighbors that are taking part in this and taking pride in their their alleys again.

>> Nash: So, Councilor Rogers, what is the long term vision for these projects?

>> Rogers: Yeah, the long term vision is to duplicate this and as many neighborhoods as we can in district six.

And I ask all, all of Albuquerque to get involved.

Like, I think that's something that's important to me, as I know that we get a lot of flak in district six for all of the negative things, and we are taking back our neighborhoods and one neighbor at a time.

And that's what this is beautiful.

We actually were able to partner with UNM and the US Park Service for a technical assistance grant, because I saw clearly that we were all busy running lives, running a district, helping in our field, you know, helping at the school.

We don't have the time to sit down and type out everything that we do.

And so this technical assistance is helping us be able to put a guidebook together, a cookbook together, that will we can actually just hand to another neighbor and say, go do good things, and we'll come along with the resources.

The city and the county have to give a shout out to Commissioner Barboa, who really was one of the first people to really say, hey all, we need to all gather together and do something.

And that's what this is about, is just giving neighbors sharing power and resources so that we can take back our neighborhoods.

And I think that if we can all have this mentality and shift of believing that, you know, we are all kind of taking ownership of our streets.

And as our wonderful friend Kelley over at the ABC schools, who's another partner, says, we are changing the built environment to provide safety and safe transport for our students.

Safe passages.

>> Nash: If somebody's watching this conversation right now.

And that's thinking there is something in my neighborhood that could be fixed.

There's something in the built environment in my area that I wish I could do something about, and they're motivated to do something.

How do they get involved in something like this?

>> Romero: Yeah.

So I think the first step would be is that we are creating this International District Alleyway Alliance to support the work through the National Park Service, and we will be planning and convening and working to spread it all throughout the country.

So you can contact me, you can contact Natalie, we can share our contact information, and we will be also, you know, offering positions to volunteers for our alley captains.

Like Natalie said, APS is also looking for conductors who can help with the expansion to the 14 schools in this school year alone, so there's lots of opportunities to get involved.

I would encourage folks to reach out to me, my that's what I'm here for.

All right.

>> Nash: And Natalie, to finish up, what's next for your efforts to help kids find safer routes to school?

>> Vargas: It's to continue to grow the walking school, bus activation, field trips, and just to make this district wide so that all the kids have an opportunity to participate in an alleyway activations where they can walk to a field trip, feel safe and be in a different kind of space.

>> Nash: Awesome, Thank you.

Thank you all for sharing your work with us.

>> Rogers: Thank you.

Thank you for having us.

Thanks to Councilor Nicole Rogers, Natalie Vargas, and Angelica Archuleta-Romero for that conversation, and to everyone who contributed this week's show.

Over the weekend, the Democratic National Committee put New Mexico fourth in line on its presidential primary schedule.

I hope you'll join us next week when we dig into the implications of getting a coveted early slot like that.

And what happens now.

for New Mexico PBS, I'm Nash Jones.

Until then, stay focused.

Funding for New Mexico in Focus is provided by viewers like you.