REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM HELLO, I'M LORENE MILLS, AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA F.<br/> YOU, READERS OF NEW MEXICO, WILL BE THRILLED THAT OUR GUEST TODAY IS ANNE HILLERMAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>ANNE: THANK YOU, LORENE, IT'S ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO BE WITH YOU.

>>LORENE: WELL, YOU ARE SUCH A BELOVED WRITER, NOW YOU WERE THE DAUGHTER OF THE EQUALLY FAMOUS WRITER, TONY HILLERMAN, AND PEOPLE ALWAYS SAID, WELL, ARE YOU GOING TO WRITE LIKE YOUR DAD?

WHAT MADE YOU REALIZE THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE OKAY FOR YOU TO CARRY ON, DID YOU MISS THE CHARACTERS?

>>ANNE: I DID MISS THE CHARACTERS AND ACTUALLY, I WROTE A NONFICTION BOOK, THAT WAS WHAT LED ME INTO WRITING FICTION.

WHEN I WAS WRITING THAT BOOK, I NEVER IMAGINED THAT I WOULD BE WRITING NINE NOVELS BASED ON DAD'S CHARACTERS.

THAT BOOK WAS A BOOK ABOUT THE PLACES THAT MY DAD WROTE ABOUT IN HIS NAVAJO NOVELS, HE WROTE 17 OF THOSE.

SO I THOUGHT AND OFTEN WHEN HE WOULD DO HIS TALKS, PEOPLE WOULD COME UP TO HIM AND THEY'D SAY, YOU KNOW, I LOVE YOUR DESCRIPTIONS, BUT I THINK YOU LAID ON KIND OF HEAVY, YOU KNOW, HOW COULD IT REALLY BE THAT BEAUTIFUL.

AND SO I KNEW, HAVING GROWN UP IN NEW MEXICO, THAT HE REALLY DIDN'T, HE WAS JUST DESCRIBING WHAT WAS ACTUALLY THERE.

SO AT THAT POINT, I WAS MARRIED TO A WONDERFUL PHOTOGRAPHER, SO HE AND I DECIDED WE WOULD GO TO THE PLACES THAT DAD HAD WRITTEN ABOUT AND TAKE PICTURES OF THEM.

AND AS PART OF THAT PROCESS, I READ THROUGH ALL OF DAD'S NOVELS LOOKING FOR THOSE WONDERFUL QUOTES THAT DESCRIBE THE LANDSCAPE AND ANYWAY WE THEN WENT OUT AND WE COULD HAVE DONE A BOOK THAT WAS 800 PAGES BECAUSE THERE WAS JUST SO MUCH WONDERFUL MATERIAL TO WORK WITH.

BUT ANYWAY, THAT BOOK CAME OUT... >>LORENE: AND HERE IT IS.

>>ANNE: THERE IT IS.

>>LORENE: TONY HILLERMAN'S LANDSCAPE , ON THE ROAD WITH CHEE AND LEAPHORN.

IT ALSO COMES WITH, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE ACTUALLY TAKE THIS MAP WHICH SHOWS WHERE ALL THE PLACES IN ALL THE BOOKS ARE AND THEY MAKE AN ODYSSEY, A PILGRIMAGE.

>>ANNE: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT.

SO ANYWAY, GETTING BACK TO YOUR QUESTION, WHEN THAT BOOK CAME OUT, I WAS LIKE, THE PUBLISHER ALWAYS WANTS YOU TO DO SOME PROMOTION AND I HAD NEVER DONE ANY PUBLIC SPEAKING, BUT I PUT ON MY BIG GIRL BOOTS AND WENT TO LIBRARIES AND ROTARY CLUBS, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THOSE PLACES THAT ARE KIND OF LOOKING FOR FREE SPEAKERS.

BUT IT WAS GREAT BECAUSE IT REALLY HELPED ME KIND OF LEARN HOW TO SPEAK IN PUBLIC AND WHENEVER I GAVE THOSE TALKS, ALWAYS PEOPLE WOULD SAY, SO DID YOUR FATHER, AT THIS POINT MY DAD HAD DIED, HE DIED RIGHT BEFORE THE BOOK CAME OUT.

>>LORENE: HE KNEW YOU WERE KNEW YOU WERE WRITING IT.

>>ANNE: HE KNEW, YES.

>>LORENE: WONDERFUL.

>>ANNE: HE WROTE AN INTRODUCTION, IT WAS REALLY LOVELY.

SO ANYWAY, PEOPLE WOULD SAY, SO WERE THERE ANY MORE TONY HILLERMAN BOOKS, YOU KNOW, WAITING TO BE PUBLISHED, ANYTHING AT THE PUBLISHER, ANYTHING THAT MAYBE, YOU KNOW, AN EDITOR COULD SPRUCE UP?

>>LORENE: THAT I COULD FINISH.

>>ANNE: YES, SOMETHING, AND I HAD TO SAY, YOU KNOW, THERE REALLY WASN'T.

I HEARD THAT QUESTION SO MANY TIMES AND AFTER I SAID, NO, SORRY, THEN I COULD JUST READ THE DISAPPOINTMENT IN THE FACE OF THE PERSON WHO'D ASKED THE QUESTION.

SO AS I WAS GOING THROUGH THIS, I WAS DEALING WITH MY OWN GRIEF OVER THE LOSS OF MY DAD AND THEN I REALIZED PART OF THAT GRIEF ALSO INVOLVED MY SADNESS OVER THE END OF THE SERIES AND THE LOSS OF THOSE WONDERFUL STORIES ABOUT THOSE CHARACTERS.

SO I THOUGHT EVEN THOUGH I HAD NEVER WRITTEN FICTION, I HAD WRITTEN LONG NONFICTION, AND I THOUGHT, WELL, MAYBE I SHOULD TRY WRITING A NOVEL, I THOUGHT, WHAT'S THE WORST THING THAT CAN HAPPEN.

I SPEND A YEAR, IT'S REALLY AWFUL, I GET IT OUT OF MY SYSTEM, AND THEN I GO ON WITH MY LIFE AS A JOURNALIST AND WRITING NONFICTION.

SO ANYWAY, I TRIED IT AND MY FIRST BOOK WAS SPIDER WOMAN'S DAUGHTER AND TO MY DELIGHT, PEOPLE LIKED IT, IT WAS ON THE NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLER LIST AND THE EDITOR WHO I WORKED WITH LIKED IT, AND SHE OFFERED ME A CONTRACT FOR ANOTHER BOOK.

HERE I AM WITH NINE BOOKS WRITTEN, NINE BOOKS PUBLISHED, AND MY 10TH BOOK FINISHED, WHICH WILL BE OUT IN THE SPRING.

>>LORENE: AND WHAT'S THE NAME OF THE 10TH ONE?

>>ANNE: IT'S CALLED SHADOW OF THE SOLSTICE .

>>LORENE: WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL.

WELL, YOU HAD A CHALLENGE BECAUSE YOU WANTED TO BE TRUE TO TONY'S BOOKS, BUT TO MAKE THEM YOUR OWN AND YOU DID THAT BY ELEVATING A LESSER CHARACTER, AN IMPORTANT CHARACTER, BERNADETTE MANUELITO.

BUT THE TWO MAIN DETECTIVES, HEROES, PROTAGONISTS, JIM CHEE AND JOE LEAPHORN, YOU WERE ABLE TO ELEVATE THIS OTHER FEMALE CHARACTER AND SHE COMES INTO HER OWN.

SHE IS AMAZING, MATTER OF FACT, BY THE TIME WE'RE GETTING TO THIS LATEST BOOK, LOST BIRDS , SHE IS REALLY AMAZING.

>>ANNE: YES, IN LOST BIRDS , SHE'S DEALING WITH AN EXPLOSION AND THEN, I DON'T WANT TO GIVE TOO MUCH AWAY.

>>LORENE: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.

>>ANNE: AN EXPLOSION AND A BODY AND SHE IS REALLY ON TOP OF THINGS.

>>LORENE: SHE'S ALSO IN DANGER.

>>ANNE: SHE IS, YES.

I ALWAYS LOVED MY FATHER'S WORK, BUT I ALWAYS, I MEAN, FROM EARLY IN THE SERIES, I THOUGHT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN REALLY NICE FOR HIM TO HAVE HAD A FEMALE PROTAGONIST AND HE TENDED TO USE HIS WOMEN CHARACTERS... >>LORENE: THE WIFE, WHAT DO YOU WANT FOR BREAKFAST?

>>ANNE: YEAH, I LOVE MY DAD, SO I DON'T WANT TO SAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE.

>>LORENE: NO, NO, NO.

>>ANNE: LET ME JUST SAY, I SAW THERE WAS OPPORTUNITY THERE FOR THESE CHARACTERS TO BE FURTHER DEVELOPED.

SO IN LOST BIRDS , NOT ONLY DOES BERNIE HAVE A BIG ROLE, BUT ANOTHER WOMAN CHARACTER WHO I HAVE BEEN SLOWLY DEVELOPING, JOE LEAPHORN'S HOUSEMATE, LOUISA BOURBONETTE, ALSO HAS A BIG ROLE IN THAT BOOK.

SO IT'S BEEN REALLY FUN TO WORK WITH THESE KIND OF CLASSIC, LONG ESTABLISHED CHARACTERS AND THEN TO ADD OTHER PERSONALITIES TO THE MIX, JUST SORT OF ENRICH THE STORIES AND GIVE THEM A LITTLE MORE TEXTURE AND ALSO A LITTLE MORE CONTEMPORARY FLAIR.

>>LORENE: YES, BECAUSE ISN'T THE ORIGINAL SET IN ABOUT 1971?

>>ANNE: THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT.

>>LORENE: AND NOW WE'RE MOVING UP, MOVING FORWARD IN TIME.

AND THE ROLES OF MEN AND WOMEN ARE CHANGING.

>>ANNE: CORRECT.

>>LORENE: AND THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE NATIVE AMERICAN POPULATION AND THE ANGLO POPULATION HAS CHANGED.

YOUR WORK IS CUT OUT FOR YOU AND YOU DO IT SO WELL.

>>ANNE: THANKS.

>>LORENE: YOU'VE GOTTEN SO MANY AWARDS, I COULDN'T WRITE THEM ALL DOWN, WOULD YOU JUST TALK ABOUT THE ONE YOU'RE PROUDEST OF BECAUSE... >>ANNE: SURE.

THANK YOU FOR ASKING ME THAT.

I JUST LEARNED THAT I'M GOING TO BE RECEIVING THE WILL ROGERS MEDALLION AND IT'S AN AWARD FOR PEOPLE, FOR WRITERS WHO KIND OF CARRY ON THE OPTIMISM OF WILL ROGERS.

YOU KNOW, WRITING ABOUT THE WEST IN A WAY, THAT'S TRUE, BUT NOT FULL OF JUST GUNFIGHTS AND WRESTLING AND ALL OF THAT KIND OF STEREOTYPICAL SORT OF THIS IS THE BAD OLD WEST.

MORE PEOPLE WHO WRITE ABOUT THE WEST WITH A SPIRIT OF OPTIMISM AND HOPE AND EXPANSIVENESS, WHICH, AS I SEE IT, WAS KIND OF THE SPIRIT THAT IS REALLY TRUE OF THE AMERICAN WEST.

>>LORENE: AND THIS SENSE OF COMMUNITY AND SUPPORT FOR EACH OTHER.

>>ANNE: THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT, SO I'M REALLY PROUD OF THAT.

AND I JUST LEARNED THAT LOST BIRDS IS A FINALIST FOR THE NEW MEXICO ARIZONA BOOK AWARD.

YEAH, IT'S GREAT TO BE HONORED IN YOUR OWN STATE.

IT ALWAYS MAKE ME FEEL REALLY GOOD.

THE OTHER THING THAT I WAS SO PROUD OF, THERE'S A GROUP CALLED MYSTERY WRITERS OF AMERICA AND EVERY YEAR THEY DO AWARDS CALLED THE EDGAR AWARDS, NAMED AFTER EDGAR ALLAN POE.

>>LORENE: OF COURSE.

>>ANNE: AND THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, AWARDS FOR, YOU KNOW, MYSTERIES GEARED TOWARDS CHILDREN AND WHAT THEY CALL COZY MYSTERIES AND POLICE PROCEDURES, A LOT OF DIFFERENT CATEGORIES, BECAUSE THE WORLD OF MYSTERY IS VERY WIDE.

THEY ALSO HAVE A CATEGORY FOR BEST SCREENPLAY OFFERED FOR TELEVISION, A TELEVISION SHOW.

AND THIS YEAR, ONE OF THE SCRIPTS FOR DARK WINDS WAS AMONG THE NOMINEES, AND THERE WERE ONLY FIVE NOMINEES, AND IF YOU THINK OF HOW MANY MYSTERIES ARE ON TELEVISION.

>>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.

>>ANNE: I MEAN, DARK WINDS DID NOT COME IN FIRST, BUT JUST BEING HONORED, I THOUGHT WAS JUST SUCH A SUCH A TERRIFIC, TERRIFIC ACCOLADE FOR THE SEASON AND FOR THOSE WONDERFUL SCREENWRITERS WHO HAVE BEEN WORKING SO HARD ON IT.

>>LORENE: WELL, WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT DARK WINDS , BECAUSE THIS TELEVISION SERIES JUST LIT THE WEST ON FIRE.

SO IT IS PRODUCED BY THE EXTRAORDINARY GEORGE MARTIN, GEORGE R.R.

MARTIN AND ROBERT REDFORD.

AND NEXT YEAR, 2025, WE'LL BE ABLE TO SEE SEASON THREE, BUT SEASONS ONE AND TWO CAN BE SEEN ON AMC AND ON NETFLIX, AND THEY'RE JUST EXTRAORDINARY.

BUT WHAT GOT PEOPLE'S ATTENTION, WAS IT THAT YOU HAD INDIGENOUS SCRIPT WRITERS TO DO BOTH THE DIALOG AND THE PLOTS, AND THEY REALLY CAPTURED REAL LIFE ON THE NAVAJO RESERVATION WITHOUT ANY IDIOTIC STEREOTYPE, YOU KNOW, IT'S EASY TO DO IT WRONG.

HOLLYWOOD HAS A LONG HISTORY OF DOING IT WRONG, BUT THE SCENERY IS SPECTACULAR AND IT'S FULL OF NATIVE TALENT, BEHIND THE SCENES AND IN FRONT OF THE SCREEN AND IT'S JUST SO WELL DESERVED THE PRAISE FOR THIS EVENT.

I URGE EVERYONE TO WATCH IT AND OF COURSE, WHAT'S THE NAME ZAHN MCCLARNON.

>>ANNE: ZAHN MCCLARNON, YEAH.

>>LORENE: WHAT A FACE, I MEAN, HE'S AN INCREDIBLY CHARISMATIC ACTOR.

>>ANNE: AND I THINK THE OTHER CHARACTERS, THE ACTORS, IN THOSE MANY ROLES ARE REALLY GOOD TOO.

KIOWA GORDON AS THE JIM CHEE CHARACTER.

>>LORENE: AND THE WONDERFUL WOMAN WHO ENDS UP READING THE BOOK ON TAPE, WHAT'S HER NAME?

>>ANNE: JESSICA MATTEN.

YES, JESSICA IS A FIRST NATIONS PERSON FROM CANADA.

IN MY BOOKS, BERNADETTE MANUELITO IS SHORT, BUT I'M 5'10 AND JESSICA AND I STAND EYE TO EYE.

PHYSICALLY, SHE'S NOT THE WAY I IMAGINED BERNADETTE MANUELITO, BUT IN EVERY OTHER ASPECT, SHE HAS THAT CHARACTER NAILED.

IT JUST MAKES ME SO HAPPY TO SEE HER IN THAT ROLE.

I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO GO TO THE PREMIERE OF THE VERY FIRST SEASON.

THEY DID IT HERE IN SANTA FE, AND I HAD A CHANCE TO MEET JESSICA AND A LOT OF THE OTHER CAST MEMBERS.

SHE CAME UP AND GAVE ME A HUG AND SHE SAID, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR CREATING THE CHARACTER OF BERNADETTE MANUELITO AND I THOUGHT, IT MADE ME FEEL GOOD, YOU KNOW, THAT SOMEONE MORE THAN ME REALLY APPRECIATES THE VALUE OF HAVING A STRONG NAVAJO WOMAN.

AND THE INTERESTING THING THEY'RE SETTING THE SERIES IN THE 1970S AND IN MY VERSION OF BERNADETTE MANUELITO, SHE REALLY WASN'T EVEN BORN IN THE 1970S.

BUT I'M GLAD THAT THEY USED MY VERSION OF HER IN THE SHOW, I THINK IT REALLY BRINGS IT TO LIFE.

THEY ALSO, A THING THAT I WAS REALLY HAPPY OF IN THE FIRST SEASON, THEY HAVE HER AS JIM CHEE'S BOSS.

>>LORENE: THAT'S VERY GOOD.

>>ANNE: IN DAD'S BOOK SHE WAS ALWAYS A LITTLE SOFTER, A LITTLE MORE SUBDUED, A LITTLE SWEETER, LESS COMPETENT, MORE TRADITIONAL, LET ME BRING YOU SOME COFFEE.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.

>>ANNE: LET ME BE THE HELP MATE, IN DARK WINDS SHE IS GOING FULL FORCE.

>>LORENE: WELL, WHAT THEY'RE SAYING ABOUT DARK WINDS , THAT IT'S ONE OF THE MOST WELL-WRITTEN AND WELL ACTED PROGRAMS ON TELEVISION AND IN THE HISTORY OF TELEVISION.

SO YOU SHOULD BE VERY HEADY WITH THAT KIND OF PRAISE.

AND TO HEAR THE ACTRESS WHO GOT TO INHABIT THIS CHARACTER TO HAVE PRAISE FROM, I MEAN, SHE KNOWS THE INTRICACY OF THIS CHARACTER AND LOVES IT.

WE'RE SPEAKING TODAY WITH ANNE HILLERMAN ABOUT HER LATEST BOOK, LOST BIRDS, A BIT ABOUT SEVERAL OTHER BOOKS.

YOU DO SO MANY EVENTS THAT I WOULD LIKE YOU TO TALK ABOUT THEM, SOME OF THEM ARE UPCOMING, THEY CAN FIND THEM ON YOUR WEBSITE.

YOU HAVE RECENTLY DONE A WRITING WORKSHOP CALLED "A DAY WITH SANTA FE AUTHOR'S MEMOIR AND MYSTERY," AND IT WAS A BENEFIT FOR READING QUEST, I WISH I COULD HAVE GONE.

BUT COMING UP, LISTEN TO THESE TITLES, HISTORY'S FOOTPRINTS WEAVING THE PAST INTO MODERN MYSTERIES.

THAT IS YOUR GIFT, THAT'S WHAT YOU DO.

>>ANNE: YOU KNOW, I WAS SO HONORED TO GET THAT INVITATION, THAT EVEN IS BEING PUT ON BY THE FRIENDS OF HISTORY THROUGH THE NEW MEXICO MUSEUM OF HISTORY.

>>LORENE: RIGHT.

>>ANNE: AND, YOU KNOW, I LOVE PUTTING HISTORY IN MY BOOKS.

AS A READER, WHEN I'M READING FICTION, I ALWAYS ENJOY IT EVEN MORE IF I'M LEARNING SOMETHING IN THE PROCESS, SO I TRY, I'M ASSUMING THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF READERS OUT THERE LIKE ME WHO LIKE TO LEARN SOMETHING WHILE THEY'RE READING FICTION BESIDES JUST BEING ENTERTAINED.

SO IN IN LOST BIRDS , I DEAL A LITTLE BIT WITH THE HISTORY OF THE INDIAN CHILD WELFARE ACT AND THE FACT THAT THAT WAS THE ACT THAT SAID INDIAN CHILDREN IF THEY WERE GOING TO BE ADOPTED, THAT THEIR TRIBAL COMMUNITY SHOULD HAVE FIRST RIGHT.

>>LORENE: RIGHT.

>>ANNE: AND SO THEN I GOT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT IT WAS LIKE BEFORE THAT, YOU KNOW, TALK ABOUT THAT HISTORY, WHICH I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE.

>>LORENE: WELL, ALSO, YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER THIS CHILD WAS REALLY AN ORPHAN AND NEEDED TO BE ADOPTED OR WHETHER IT WAS STOLEN OR BORROWED, I MEAN, THE VERY NAME LOST SPIRIT S TRYING TO FIND THEIR OWN NEST, I MEAN, IT'S SO POIGNANT.

BUT ANOTHER ONE, COULD YOU HOLD UP STARGAZER FOR A MINUTE.

YOU PROVIDE US WITH AN EDUCATION, I'M JUST GOING TO JUST SAY THAT I LEARNED ALL ABOUT COSMOLOGY, THE NAVAJO COSMOLOGY AND ASTRONOMY.

BECAUSE THEY NAMED THEIR CONSTELLATIONS AFTER THEIR FOLK TALES, AFTER THEIR HERO MYTH.

SO I JUST.

I LEARNED SO MUCH FROM YOUR BOOKS STILL.

I AM GRATEFUL THAT YOU'RE LEARNING, BUT I'M ALSO GRATEFUL THAT WE JUST GET TO LEARN EXTRAORDINARY THINGS FROM YOUR WRITING.

>>ANNE: WELL, YOU KNOW, SINCE IT'S FICTION, I USUALLY DO FAR TOO MUCH RESEARCH, AND THEN I HAVE TO CUT IT BACK, BUT MY HOPE IS THAT WHEN PEOPLE, SAY WITH STARGAZER , WHEN PEOPLE READ A LITTLE BIT ABOUT NAVAJO COSMOLOGY, THAT THEN THEY WOULD BE CURIOUS AND THEY WOULD, YOU KNOW, MAKE THE EFFORT TO LEARN MORE ON THEIR OWN AND THEN MAYBE LEARN MORE ABOUT WHAT OTHER INDIGENOUS CULTURES, YOU KNOW, BELIEVE ABOUT THE STARS AND HOW THOSE STORIES KIND OF INTERMESH WITH THE GREEK ROMAN MYTHS THAT ARE SORT OF PART OF OUR STAR LORE.

>>LORENE: YEAH, THAT'S GREAT, AS A MATTER OF FACT, I WAS JUST DOING THAT WITH NEW ZEALAND.

MY DAUGHTER LIVES IN NEW ZEALAND AND OF COURSE THE PACIFIC IS VERY LARGE AND NEW ZEALAND, YOU KNOW, IN A VERY OBSCURE CORNER OF IT AND THEY DO ALL THEIR NAVIGATION BY THE STARS AND THEIR CREATION MYTHS AND STORIES OF THE CONSTELLATIONS ARE JUST VERY IMAGINARY AND VERY, VERY DIFFERENT.

ONE OF THE OTHER EVENTS YOU HAVE COMING UP IS, IT'S A CLOSING TALK FOR A PROGRAM CALLED THE PURSUIT OF HISTORY IN SANTA FE, IT'S CALLED "WOVEN STORIES, HISTORY, CULTURE AND LANDSCAPE IN NEW MEXICO."

LITERALLY, YOU WROTE THE BOOKS.

>>ANNE: I WAS SO THRILLED WHEN THAT GENTLEMAN ASKED ME IF I WOULD DO THAT.

THEY'RE A NATIONAL GROUP AND THEY'VE BEEN BASED IN NEW ENGLAND, BUT NOW THEY ARE SPREADING THEIR WINGS AND REALIZING THERE'S HISTORY, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE PILGRIMS.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE WONDERFUL TO HAVE PEOPLE WHO MAYBE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING MUCH ABOUT OUR SOUTHWESTERN HISTORY TO COME TO SANTA FE, YOU KNOW, GO TO THE HISTORY MUSEUM, GO TO I THINK THEY'RE GOING OUT TO PECOS NATIONAL MONUMENT.

THEY HAVE A BIG WONDERFUL AGENDA OF THINGS AND THEN I GET TO TALK TO THEM AT THE END, SO I'M GOING TO JUST GIVE THEM A REAL PEP TALK AND SAY, COME BACK, YOU'VE JUST REALLY TOUCHED THE SURFACE OF THIS.

>>LORENE: RIGHT AND ALSO, WHEN YOU READ THESE LANDSCAPE DESCRIPTIONS, BELIEVE THEM BECAUSE NEW MEXICO IS REALLY LIKE THAT.

THAT'S WHY IT'S CALLED THE LAND OF ENCHANTMENT, ALSO THE LAND OF ENTRAPMENT, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE COME HERE AND IT'S BEAUTIFUL BEYOND WHAT THEY EVER IMAGINED.

THEY SAID, I'M GOING TO LIVE HERE.

>>ANNE: AND THIS TIME OF YEAR.

OH MY GOSH, YOU JUST CAN'T BEAT IT.

I HAVE FRIENDS WHO >>LORENE: SO, NINE BOOKS NOW AND THE 10TH, NO, IT'S THE NINTH, AT THE PUBLISHERS NOW.

>>ANNE: 10TH.

>>LORENE: THE 10TH, RIGHT, RIGHT.

SO HAVE YOU FOUND YOUR RHYTHM, ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP... >>ANNE: YOU KNOW, I AM FOR SURE GOING TO WRITE ONE MORE BOOK IN THE JIM CHEE, JOE LEAPHORN, BERNADETTE MANUELITO SERIES.

THEN I'M GOING TO START ANOTHER SERIES, I DON'T KNOW YET WHAT IT'S GOING TO BE, BUT I'M SURE IT'LL BE A MYSTERY BECAUSE I JUST LOVE THE MYSTERY GENRE.

I IMAGINE IT WILL HAVE A STRONG WOMAN AS THE MAIN CHARACTER, I DON'T KNOW YET IF SHE'S GOING TO BE IN LAW ENFORCEMENT OR MAYBE A PRIVATE DETECTIVE OR SOME OTHER KIND OF INVESTIGATOR.

BUT I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO SPREADING MY WINGS A LITTLE BIT, YOU KNOW?

AS MUCH AS I LOVE THESE CHARACTERS, I THINK IT WON'T HURT ANY OF US, I MEAN, AFTER I WRITE THE BOOK, THE 11TH BOOK, WHERE I'M GOING TO DO SOMETHING ELSE WITH THEM, I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT, BUT AFTER THAT, I THINK IT WON'T HURT ALL OF US TO KIND OF HAVE A LITTLE BREAK.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.

>>ANNE: BERNIE AND CHEE AND MAMA AND JOE LEAPHORN CAN GO ONE WAY AND DARLENE AND, YOU KNOW, I'LL DO SOMETHING ELSE FOR A WHILE, THEN WE'LL SEE.

>>LORENE: ANOTHER CHARACTER IS KNOCKING ON YOUR BRAIN SAYING, LET ME IN, WE'RE GOING TO GO SOMEWHERE WONDERFUL.

>>ANNE: I THINK SO, IT'S EXCITING TO THINK OF DOING SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH, BECAUSE YOU'VE HAD CAREERS, YOU WERE A JOURNALIST, YOU DID NONFICTION BOOKS, YOU'VE CERTAINLY MASTERED THESE, I LOVE THEM SO MUCH.

>>ANNE: WELL, THANK YOU FOR SAYING MASTERED.

EVERY BOOK, I ALWAYS THINK, OH GEE, WHEN I'M READING IT, WHEN THE COPY EDITOR SENDS IT BACK TO ME, I THINK, I WISH I HAD DONE THIS AND I WISH I HAD DONE THAT, THIS IS TOO LONG AND THIS IS TOO SHORT.

BUT THE GOOD THING ABOUT HAVING A CONTRACT AND HAVING A DEADLINE IS THAT YOU HAVE A CHANCE THEN TO MOVE ON AND TO TAKE WHATEVER YOU'VE LEARNED WITH BOOK NINE AND PUT IT TO WORK IN BOOK TEN, AND THEN YOU REALIZE, BUT THIS IS A DIFFERENT BOOK WITH DIFFERENT CHALLENGES.

BUT REALLY, THAT'S THE WONDERFUL THING ABOUT CREATIVE WORK, IT JUST KEEPS YOUR BRAIN AND YOUR IMAGINATION SHARPENED.

AND I HOPE I CAN BE DOING IT FOR ANOTHER TEN YEARS.

>>LORENE: AT LEAST, AT LEAST.

BUT WHAT WOULD YOU TELL PEOPLE WHO'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO WRITE AND THEY WOULD LOVE TO DO THIS.

>>ANNE: DON'T WAIT, DON'T WAIT, DO IT NOW.

IF IT MATTERS TO YOU, MAKE TIME IN YOUR LIFE FOR IT.

THE OTHER THING I'D SAY IS DON'T BE TOO CRITICAL OF YOURSELF.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE JUST BEGINNING, YOU KNOW, GIVE YOURSELF BEGINNER'S GRACE, SAY THIS MAY NOT BE PERFECT, BUT I DID SOMETHING TODAY AND I'LL DO SOMETHING TOMORROW.

AND I GUESS THE THIRD THING I WOULD SAY IS DON'T BE AFRAID TO ASK FOR HELP, TO LEARN FROM PEOPLE WHO'VE BEEN DOWN THAT ROAD WHO MAYBE CAN GIVE YOU SOME GOOD ADVICE.

THIS MORNING, I MET WITH A MAN WHO TEACHES AT ST. JOHN'S, WHO'S ALWAYS WANTED TO WRITE A NOVEL, AND HIS NOVEL IS KIND OF SUPERNATURAL HORROR, A GENRE I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT.

BUT HE WAS JUST SO FULL OF ENTHUSIASM, IT MADE MY HEART SING TO SEE HOW MUCH JOY HE HAD IN HAVING FINISHED HIS BOOK.

YOU KNOW, I COULD GIVE HIM SOME GENERAL ADVICE ON, YOU KNOW, HOW TO MOVE ON FROM HERE, BUT, YEAH, I THINK PEOPLE JUST HAVE TO FOLLOW THEIR PASSION.

I WOULD FEEL BAD TO, YOU KNOW, GET TO BE OF A CERTAIN AGE AND THINK, I ALWAYS WANTED TO DO THAT AND NOW I DON'T FEEL LIKE I'VE GOT THE ENERGY TO.

>>LORENE: BECAUSE IT IS VERY DEMANDING.

I THINK OF MARY SHELLEY, WHO WROTE FRANKENSTEI,<br/> YOU KNOW, THE ARCHETYPICAL BOOK OF THAT GENRE.

AND SHE DID IT AS KIND OF A PARLOR PASTIME, YOU KNOW, SHE WASN'T GOING TO BE THE GREAT WRITER, AND IT WAS SO WELL RECEIVED, PEOPLE JUST COULDN'T GET ENOUGH OF IT.

SHE DID OTHER WRITING.

AND ALSO PEOPLE WANT EVERYTHING TO BE PERFECT AND LIKE YOU SAY, GIVE YOURSELF A LITTLE GRACE, THEIR EDITORS CAN DO THE MOP UP WORK.

THEY CAN, YOU KNOW, MAYBE RESTRUCTURE A SENTENCE OR TWO OR THE ORDER OF PARAGRAPHS, BUT GET THAT FIRE THAT'S WITHIN YOU BURNING.

>>ANNE: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: GET IT OUT, GET IT ON THE PAGE.

>>ANNE: WELL, YOU KNOW, WHEN MY DAD STARTED, HE NEVER REALLY INTENDED TO WRITE ALL OF HIS BOOKS ABOUT NAVAJO DETECTIVES, HIS IDEA WAS HE WOULD START WITH A MYSTERY BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HE READ AND MYSTERIES ARE FAIRLY EASY BECAUSE THEY HAVE GUIDELINES.

AND THEN AFTER THAT, HE WOULD WRITE THE GREAT AMERICAN NOVEL, BUT AFTER HE WROTE HIS FIRST BOOK, HE REALIZED THAT HE REALLY LOVED WRITING ABOUT NAVAJO POLICEMEN AND HE REALLY LOVED INCLUDING THAT BEAUTIFUL LANDSCAPE IN HIS STORIES.

SO HE DID WRITE ANOTHER BOOK, WHICH WAS A BOOK ABOUT A JOURNALIST, AND IT'S NOT A BAD BOOK, BUT HE'S OFTEN SAID THE WHOLE TIME HE WAS WRITING THAT BOOK, HE WAS REALLY WANTING TO GET BACK TO JOE LEAPHORN AND THE NAVAJO STORIES.

THE OTHER THING HE SAID, AND THIS COULD BE ENCOURAGING TO PEOPLE WHO WANT TO START WRITING, HE SAID IF HE HAD IT TO DO OVER AGAIN, THERE WERE SO MANY CHANGES HE WOULD HAVE MADE IN THE BLESSING WAY .

HE SAID WHEN HE LOOKED BACK AT IT, HE SAID IT WASN'T A BAD BOOK, BUT IT CERTAINLY WASN'T A GREAT BOOK, BUT AFTER HE WROTE IT, THEN HE WAS ABLE TO WRITE A BETTER BOOK AND A BETTER BOOK AND A BETTER BOOK.

SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE JUST HAVE TO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, RIDE THE WAVE AND OF COURSE, YOU'RE GOING TO GET A MOUTHFUL OF SALT WATER, THAT'S JUST HOW LIFE IS.

>>LORENE: WELL, I FORGET WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY, BUT PERFECT IS THE ENEMY OF THE GOOD, WE HAVE TO TELL PEOPLE, JUST GET IT DOWN.

I LOVE WHAT HE SAYS ABOUT, YEAH, HE COULD BE DIFFERENT, THE OTHER THING WE HAVE TO CAUTION PEOPLE ABOUT IS THAT MANY OF THESE BOOKS HAVE HAD A FILM OR TELEVISION PRESENTATION, AND THE DEMANDS OF THE SCREENS ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE DEMANDS OF THE PAGE.

THERE WILL BE CHANGES THAT THE PRODUCERS AND THE DIRECTORS OR THE ACTORS CAME UP WITH.

>>ANNE: YOU KNOW, THAT'S A VERY GOOD POINT, I GET COMMENTS FROM READERS, DEDICATED READERS OF MY DAD'S BOOKS AND MY BOOKS, AND THEY SAY, WELL, WAIT A MINUTE, THEY CHANGED THIS AND THEY CHANGED THIS AND THIS ISN'T LIKE THE BOOK AND WHAT HAPPENED HERE.

I MEAN, THEY'RE RATHER IRATE AND I HAVE TO SAY, BOOK IS STILL THE BOOK.

EVERYTHING ABOUT THAT BOOK IS STILL THERE AND MOVIES ARE DIFFERENT, TELEVISION IS DIFFERENT.

I SAY BRAVO TO THEIR CREATIVITY, I THINK A LOT OF THE CHANGES THAT THEY'VE MADE REALLY MAKE GOOD TELEVISION.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.

TELL US, WE JUST HAVE A MINUTE LEFT ABOUT THE SHADOW OF THE SOLSTICE .

>>ANNE: IT'S COMING OUT APRIL 22ND.

>>LORENE: �THIS YEAR.

>>ANNE: �IT'S IMMEDIATE, 2025, NEXT SPRING, A FEW MORE MONTHS.

I HAVE ANOTHER MINOR CHARACTER, BERNIE'S SISTER, DARLENE MANUELITO AND IN THIS BOOK, DARLENE HAS A MUCH BIGGER ROLE AND SHE KIND OF GETS TO RISE UP FROM BEING THE YOUNG WOMAN WHO WAS ALWAYS LOOKING TO FIND HERSELF, TO SOMEBODY WHO REALLY DOES A TREMENDOUSLY GOOD DEED.

I DON'T WANT TO SAY TOO MUCH ABOUT IT BUT.

>>LORENE: NO WE CAN'T, THAT'S THE RULE ABOUT TALKING ABOUT MYSTERIES, YOU CAN'T GIVE IT AWAY.

I LOOK FORWARD TO READING IT.

>>ANNE: I SHOULD ALSO SAY IT ALSO HAS A TURTLE IN IT.

>>LORENE: A TURTLE, OKAY.

A SMALL TURTLE, AQUARIUM SIZE OR A LAND DESERT TURTLE.

>>ANNE: A TURTLE THAT LIVES IN THE POCKET OF ONE OF THE CHARACTERS AND THEN IT GETS LOST.

>>LORENE: OH NO.

>>ANNE: AND THEN IT'S FOUND, I SHOULDN'T GIVE TOO MUCH AWAY.

I THINK READERS, PEOPLE, WHO HAVE READ MY BOOKS KIND OF ASSUME THAT THINGS ARE GOING TO WORK OUT MORE OR LESS AT THE END.

>>LORENE: YEAH, THEY'RE VERY SATISFYING, YOUR BOOKS.

WE'RE SPEAKING TODAY WITH ANNE HILLERMAN, I INVITED HER TO TALK ABOUT HER NEW BOOK.

DID THIS JUST COME OUT IN PAPERBACK?

>>ANNE: IN JANUARY.

>>LORENE: IN JANUARY, LOST BIRDS .

HER FIRST ONE, EXTRAORDINARY SPIDER WOMAN'S DAUGHTER .

I ALWAYS FEEL THAT YOU DO SO MUCH WEAVING OF MANY TEXTURES AND IDEAS AND DESCRIPTIONS THAT YOU ARE A BIT OF A SPIDER WOMAN'S DAUGHTER YOURSELF, AS YOU READ THESE WONDERFUL BOOKS FOR US.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>>ANNE: THANK YOU.

>>LORENE: AND YOU'LL COME BACK WHEN THIS SHADOW OF THE SOLSTICE COMES OUT.

>>ANNE: YOU HAVE TO TWIST MY ARM.

>>LORENE: THANK YOU ANNE.

I'M LORENE MILLS, I'D LIKE TO THANK YOUR AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM