>> Laura: ARTURO SANDOVAL, WELCOME AND THANK YOU.

>> Sandoval: THANK YOU.

IT IS REALLY GREAT TO BE HERE WITH YOU LAURA AND LONG TIME NO SEE BUT YOU AND I HAVE KNOWN EACH OTHER FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.

SO THANKS FOR HAVING ME HERE.

>> Laura: I AM GLAD FOR ALL OF OUR CONVERSATIONS OVER COFFEE OVER THE YEARS NOW WE CAN SHARE WITH OTHER PEOPLE.

>> Sandoval: WE'LL SEE HOW THAT GOES.

>> LAURA: SO WE ARE GOING TO GO WAY BACK.

YOU GREW UP IN ESPANOLA AND YOU WERE WORKING AND LIVING HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE IN 1970 WHEN DENNIS HAYES CALLED YOU AND ASKED YOU TO HELP ORGANIZE THE NATION'S FIRST EARTH DAY.

WHAT WERE YOU DOING HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE AND WHAT WAS THAT CALL LIKE?

>> Sandoval: I WAS ATTENDING UNM, GRADUATED HIGH SCHOOL IN 1965, SO I HAD ATTENDED UNM FOR A YEAR.

I THINK MY FRESHMAN, MAYBE MY FIRST TWO YEARS, AND THEN MY MOM DIED AND THAT TOOK A LOT OF WIND OUT OF MY SAILS.

I TOOK A YEAR OFF AND BECAME A VISTA VOLUNTEER IN GUADALUPE COUNTY FOR ABOUT A YEAR-AND-A-HALF.

I CAME BACK TO UNM IN THE FALL OF '68.

SO I WAS AT UNM AND HAD HELPED ORGANIZE THE UNITED NEW MEXICO AMERICAN STUDENTS AT UNM BEGINNING IN FALL OF '68 AND I WAS VERY ACTIVE THERE AND WAS VERY ACTIVE ON CAMPUS.

AND I GOT A CALL OUT OF THE BLUE ONE DAY FROM ANDY GARLING.

HE WAS ONE OF THE ORGANIZERS OF EARTH DAY AND THEY WERE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO ORGANIZE THE WESTERN U.S. AND THEY HAD A COUPLE OF CANDIDATES OUT OF THE WEST COAST, UCLA OR USC, BUT I DON'T THINK THEY WERE HAPPY WITH THEM.

THEY HEARD ABOUT ME THROUGH ONE OF THE UNM PROFESSORS AT UNM WHO SAID, HE IS A REAL CRACKER JACK.

HE SAID SOMETHING GOOD AND SO THEY CALLED ME.

THEY INTERVIEWED ME FOR ABOUT AN HOUR.

I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT EARTH DAY WAS BUT WE HAD THAT LONG CONVERSATION, MAYBE AN HOUR ON THE PHONE.

THEN, THEY WENT OFF TO TALK AMONG THEMSELVES.

THEN THEY CALLED ME BACK AND DID ANOTHER HOUR, MAYBE TWO HOURS ON THE PHONE.

AND THEN, FINALLY WE AGREED.

I SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT, THIS IS WORTH DOING.

SO, LITERALLY WITHIN THREE DAYS I WAS ON A PLANE TO DC TO START ORGANIZING EARTH DAY.

THAT IS HOW I GOT INVOLVED.

>> Laura: YEAH.

>> Sandoval: TWO PHONE CALLS.

>> Laura: WHEN WE USED TO TALK ON THE PHONE WITH EACH OTHER.

>> Sandoval: THAT IS RIGHT.

WE HAD LAND LINES.

>> Laura: SO NOW MORE THAN HALF A CENTURY LATER, DO YOU THINK THAT THE MOVEMENT WAS ON THE RIGHT TRACK, WENT ASTRAY, LIKE WHERE ARE WE TODAY?

>> Sandoval: I THINK IT WAS A FANTASTIC MOVEMENT.

BACK IN THE LATE 60'S AND 70'S, YOU KNOW, THE BLACK CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, THE CHICANO CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, THE INDIGENOUS CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, THE WOMEN'S MOVEMENT FOR EQUAL RIGHTS WERE ALL FLOURISHING AND THERE WAS AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF ACTIVITY, DIRECT ACTION BY PEOPLE.

WE COULD ORGANIZE AND PROTEST.

AND ACTUALLY GET RESULTS AND CHANGE THINGS BOTH LOCALLY AND NATIONALLY.

SO EARTH DAY HAD THAT KIND OF IMPACT BECAUSE THERE WAS THIS UNDERLYING UNEASE, I THINK, IN THE COUNTRY THAT PEOPLE DIDN'T FEEL THERE WAS ANY WAY FOR THEM TO EXPRESS THEIR UNEASE OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO THE ENVIRONMENT.

AND EARTH DAY, I THINK, PROVIDED THE SPARK.

IT WAS READY TO EXPLODE BUT THERE NEEDED TO BE A SPARK JUST TO GET IT GOING.

AND THAT IS WHAT EARTH DAY DID AND I THINK THAT IS STILL THE LARGEST SINGLE PROTEST EVENT IN U.S. HISTORY.

IT WAS 20 MILLION PEOPLE AT OVER 10,000 SITES.

IT JUST BLEW UP WAY BEYOND WHAT WE HAD HOPED TO DO AND IT HAD A BIG IMPACT.

YOU KNOW, WE GOT THE CLEAN AIR ACT OUT OF IT.

WE GOT THE CLEAN WATER ACT OUT OF IT.

PRESIDENT NIXON, OF ALL PEOPLE, CREATED THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY.

WE GOT THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT.

AND IN THE PERIOD OF THE 70'S IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING EARTH DAY, IN THAT DECADE, DECADE-AND-A-HALF FOLLOWING EARTH DAY CONGRESS ENACTED OVER 50 MAJOR ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION LAWS.

IT LOOKED TO US, AT THAT TIME, ME AND THE OTHER ORGANIZERS, THAT WE HAD MADE A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT AND THAT THE ENVIRONMENT WAS GOING TO BE IN A BETTER PLACE.

FOR A SHORT PERIOD IT WAS.

AND THEN SOMETHING HAPPENED OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS.

WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT WE RAN INTO AN ENEMY THAT WAS MUCH BETTER ORGANIZED THAN US, MUCH MORE DISCIPLINED AND THAT WAS UNFETTERED CAPITALISM.

THE CAPITALISTS ARE VERY DISCIPLINED IN THEIR APPROACH AND POLITICAL STRATEGIES THEY ARE VERY, VERY GOOD AT IT AND THEY HAVE ENORMOUS RESOURCES.

AND WHAT THEY PROCEEDED TO DO AND WHERE WE ARE TODAY IS THEY HAVE COMPLETELY SUBORNED THE LEGISLATIVE, THE JUDICIAL AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCHES OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

AND THE PROBLEM THAT CAN ARISE WITH CAPITALISM AND THAT WE ARE FACING TODAY IN THE ENVIRONMENT IS THAT IF CAPITALISM IS UNFETTERED, IF THERE IS NO BALANCE, IF THERE IS NO CONTROL TO TRY TO REIN IN THE EXCESSES, THEN WE END UP WITH WHAT WE HAVE TODAY WHICH IS REALLY SERIOUS CLIMATE CHANGE ISSUES AND THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS COUNTRY.

SUPREME COURT HAS BEEN COMPLETELY SUBORNED BY CAPITALISM AND UNFETTERED CAPITALISM WHICH IS NOT A GOOD THING FOR HUMANS AND OTHER LIVING THINGS.

SAME THING WITH CONGRESS.

WE READ ALL THE TIME, TWO WEEKS AGO IN THE NEW YORK TIMES, THEY WROTE A PIECE ABOUT HOW NOT JUST HERE IN THE U.S.

BUT GLOBALLY THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE, FOR EXAMPLE, WANT GUN CONTROL.

MAJORITY OF AMERICANS WANT SOME CONTROL HERE.

WE ARE KILLING EACH OTHER LIKE IT IS GOING OUT OF STYLE, BUT DESPITE THE FACT THERE IS HUGE SUPPORT FOR IT AMONG THE POPULOUS WE HAVE NEVER GOTTEN ANY MEANINGFUL GUN CONTROL LAWS PASSED.

WHY?

BECAUSE THE CAPITALISTS HAVE COMPLETELY TAKEN OVER OUR ELECTORAL SYSTEMS, ESSENTIAL GOVERNMENT THAT WE AS LOCAL PEOPLE, AS COMMON PEOPLE, RELY ON TO CHECK, TO REIN IN THE EXCESSES OF CAPITALISM.

THOSE BALANCES ARE GONE AT THIS POINT IN TIME, FOR THE MOST PART.

I AM PROBABLY PAINTING IT A LITTLE MORE DIRE THAN IT ACTUALLY IS, BUT IT IS NOT GOOD.

WE ARE IN SERIOUS, SERIOUS PROBLEMS.

SO, BACK WHEN WE WERE 22 YEAR OLDS OR 20 YEAR OLDS DOING EARTH DAY, WE STILL THOUGHT THAT WE COULD WORK WITHIN THE SYSTEM AND THAT ALL WE HAD TO DO WAS REFORM IT, GET GOOD PEOPLE IN, ELECT THEM TO CONGRESS, THEY'LL HAVE GOOD VALUES AND REFLECT THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.

AND THAT DID WORK, I THINK, THROUGH THE 1970'S TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, NOT COMPLETELY BUT TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, AND THE 80'S, BUT THEN SINCE THEN WE HAVE SEEN A STEADY AND ALMOST COMPLETE EROSION OF THE CHECKS AND BALANCES.

THAT IS WHY WE WENT OFF THE TRACKS AND WE ARE TOTALLY OFF THE TRACKS TODAY.

>> Laura: IN THE EARLY 2000'S, I INTERVIEWED RUSSELL TRAIN WHO WAS AN EARLY EPA ADMINISTRATOR AND I ASKED HIM, DO YOU THINK THAT ANY OF THESE LAWS COULD BE PASSED TODAY?

HE SAID, NO, BECAUSE AS SOON AS -- THE LOBBYISTS DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS HAPPENING AT THAT MOMENT AND NOW, YOU KNOW, THE LOBBYISTS ARE LINED UP MAKING SURE THAT THINGS DON'T HAPPEN.

SO, I MEAN, YOU'RE EXPERIENCE, YOUR ANALYSIS IS DIRE BUT I THINK IT IS COMPLETELY SPOT ON.

>> Sandoval: CAPITALISTS ARE VERY SMART.

NOW IF YOU LOOK AT, I MEAN, THERE IS 139 COUNTRIES THAT ARE GOING TO BE PARTICIPATING IN THIS YEAR'S EARTH DAY AND THAT IS PROBABLY 1.2 BILLION PEOPLE ACROSS THE GLOBE BUT DESPITE THAT, WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS, THE MAJOR POLLUTERS, WHOEVER THEY ARE, EXON, YOU COULD GO ON ALL DAY NAMING THEM, THEY JUST OVER EARTH DAY.

SO, THEY SAY, THEY ARE GREEN.

THEY CLAIM TO BE VERY ECO FRIENDLY AND THEY RUN ADS SAYING HOW FRIENDLY THEY ARE, HOW ECO FRIENDLY, AND THEY HAVE THEIR STAFF IN CHEVRON T-SHIRTS OUT PLANTING TREES.

BUT THEY ARE JUST SHOWING -- WHILE THEY ARE DOING THIS 98% OF THE TIME THEY ARE COMPLETELY DESTROYING THE PLANET WITH EXTRACTIVE INDUSTRIES AND WHATEVER ELSE.

SO, THEY ARE VERY SMART IN HOW THEY CO-OP.

CAPITALISM IS GREAT AT CO-OPTING ANY THREAT TO ITS EXISTENCE.

THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE ENVIRONMENTAL MOVEMENT.

YES, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE 1.2 BILLION PEOPLE PARTICIPATING IN ONE FORM OR ANOTHER.

SOME PEOPLE MIGHT BE JUST PICKING UP TRASH, OTHERS MIGHT BE DOING SOMETHING MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANT, BUT DESPITE THAT, WE ARE STILL NOT MAKING HEADWAY TO CHANGE THE EXCESSES OF CAPITALISM AROUND THE GLOBE.

>> Laura: I AM GOING TO SHIFT GEARS AND WE ARE GOING TO COME BACK TO THIS CONVERSATION, BUT LOCALLY, HERE IN NEW MEXICO, OVER THE DECADES YOU HAVE DONE SO MUCH WORK, CIVIL RIGHTS, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AGRICULTURE, CULTURE, WE COULD DO AN ENTIRE SERIES ON THE WORK THAT YOU HAVE DONE OVER THE DECADES, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT TWO OF THE CURRENT PROJECTS AT THE CENTER OF SOUTHWEST CULTURE WHICH YOU FOUNDED RELATED TO GARDENING AND BIKE RIDING.

IF YOU WOULD TALK ABOUT THOSE TWO PROGRAMS AND WHY THEY ARE SO IMPORTANT.

>> Sandoval: LET ME START WITH OUR BIKE RIDING PROGRAM.

THAT WAS AN IDEA.

I HAD A YOUNG MAN WHO KEPT COMING TO ME WITH IDEAS FOR WANTING TO DO SOMETHING ESPECIALLY WITH CHILDREN OF COLOR, INDIGENOUS AND CHICANO KIDS, STARTING HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE, BECAUSE HE WAS WORKING IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM AND HE SAW THAT THE AFTER-SCHOOL PROGRAMS TENDED TO JUST WAREHOUSE THE KIDS.

SO THEY WERE HAVING LONG DAYS WAITING FOR THEIR PARENTS TO PICK THEM UP AT 5 OR 5:30, AFTER SCHOOL LET OUT OF 2:30 OR 3.

HE CAME UP WITH THE IDEA OF SAYING, WHAT IF WE GET THEM ACTIVE, LET'S GET THEM ON BICYCLES, TEACH THEM HOW TO REPAIR BIKES AND HOW TO BUILD BIKES AND BUILD A CURRICULUM THAT IS REALLY SORT OF STEAM BASED, BUT IT IS THROUGH A COMPLETELY CULTURAL LENS.

IT IS INDIGENOUS VIEWPOINT, IT IS THE MEXICANOS AND CHICANO VIEWPOINT OF SCIENCE AND MATH AND ALL OF THAT.

SO, WE TEACH THEM HOW TO RIDE BIKES, TEACH THEM HOW TO REPAIR BIKES, BUILD BIKES.

THEN WE TAKE THEM OUT FOR RIDES IN THE BOSQUE HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE AND WE HAVE CURANDEROS WAITING FOR THEM TO TALK ABOUT MEDICINAL HERBS AND THEIR USES IN OUR COMMUNITY OVER THE CENTURIES.

AND THEN WE HAVE SCIENTISTS THAT COME DOWN AND MEET THEM IN THE BOSQUE AND TALK TO THEM ABOUT THE HYDROLOGY AND THE DRAINAGE OF THE RIO GRANDE BASIN AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AND WHAT IS HYDROLOGY.

AND THEN WE HAVE GREAT ARTISTS THAT DO FOUND ART.

THEY GO IN AND DO ART PIECES WITH NATURAL MATERIALS THAT ARE IN THE BOSQUE, BEAUTIFUL, AND WE TAKE PICTURES OF THOSE AND THEN THE KIDS COME BACK AND WRITE THAT UP.

THEY WRITE UP WHAT DID THEY LEARN.

WHAT DID THEY LIKE ABOUT WHAT THEY LEARNED.

AND THEN AT THE END OF THE PROGRAM, THEY INVITE THEIR PARENTS AND THE PARENTS GO OUT AND THE KIDS, EACH TEACH THEIR PARENTS SOMETHING THEY LEARNED.

SO, SOME KIDS LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THE HERBS.

THEY'LL TALK TO THEIR PARENTS ABOUT IT AND THEN WHEN THE PROGRAM IS OVER, EACH CHILD AND EACH PARENT GETS A FREE BIKE FROM OUR PROGRAM.

IT IS A GREAT PROGRAM AND ANOTHER PART OF THAT STORY WRITERS PROGRAM IS, WE CALL IT ABUELITAS.

IT'S FOR MEXICAN WOMEN AND THEIR DAUGHTERS, BECAUSE GLOBALLY WE KNOW THAT MOST BICYCLING THAT IS DONE OUTSIDE OF THE U.S. IS DONE BY MOSTLY MEN WHO USE THE BIKES TO GO TO WORK, ET CETERA.

AND WOMEN TEND TO BE HOMEBOUND BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A WAY TO GET AROUND.

SO, WE ARE TEACHING MEXICANOS IMMIGRANTS HOW TO RIDE BIKES AND WE TEACH THEM BIKE SAFETY.

WE DO THE SAME THING WITH THEM AND AT THE END OF THE PROGRAM THEY TAKE THEIR OWN BIKE HOME AND WE HOPE THEY DON'T RUN INTO ANY LIGHT POSTS.

THAT IS A REALLY GREAT PROGRAM BECAUSE IT IS SO JOYFUL.

IT'S GREAT FOR THE KIDS AND WE JUST LOVE THE IMPACT IT IS HAVING ON OUR FAMILIES.

ANOTHER GREAT PROGRAM IS YOUR BACKYARD GARDENING PROGRAM WHICH IS CALLED SEMBRANDO SALUD.

SO THIS, YEAR WE'LL HAVE 3200 PEOPLE AROUND THE STATE PARTICIPATING IN BACKYARD GARDENS.

THE IDEA WAS, ONE OF OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DIVISION PROGRAMS IS WE ARE TRYING TO CREATE RURAL ECONOMIES AND RECREATE LOCAL ECONOMIES THAT HAVE SORT OF ATROPHIED INTO TRANSFER ECONOMIES.

THERE IS NOTHING REALLY GOING ON TO CREATE ANY KIND OF INCOME OR WEALTH FOR PEOPLE.

SO THE LONG RESULT OF THAT IS THOSE COMMUNITIES DIE AND THESE ARE LAND-BASED TRADITIONAL AND THE PUEBLOS HAVE TROUBLE WITH THAT ALSO.

SO, WE HAD SOME FARMERS SELLING AT FARMERS MARKET.

I NOTICED WHEN I WENT THAT IT WAS VERY EXPENSIVE.

IF YOU BUY LOCALLY ORGANIC IT IS NOT SUBSIDIZED BY THE GOVERNMENT LIKE AGRIBUSINESS IS, SO IT GETS SUBSIDIZED TO A HUGE EXTENT SO THAT IS WHY IT IS CHEAPER FOR US TO BUY THOSE VEGETABLES THAN IT IS LOCALLY GROWN.

I NOTICED THAT NONE OF OUR PEOPLE WERE BUYING AT FARMERS MARKETS PRIMARILY BECAUSE OF THE PRICE BARRIER.

IT OCCURRED TO ME WHY DON'T WE JUST ELIMINATE THE MIDDLEMAN AND GO STRAIGHT TO GROWING OUR OWN.

WE HAVE 3200 PEOPLE THIS YEAR WILL BE GROWING ORGANIC VEGETABLES.

WE PROVIDE THE SEEDS.

WE PROVIDE THE DRIP SYSTEM.

WE PROVIDE SOIL ENHANCERS TO GET THEM STARTED.

WE TEACH THEM HOW TO PLANT, WHAT COMPANION PLANTING IS.

WE TEACH THEM HOW TO COMPOST AND HOW TO HARVEST SEED BEFORE THEY EAT EVERYTHING BEFORE IT GOES TO SEED.

AND IT IS JUST GREAT RESULTS BECAUSE IT GETS KIDS AWAY FROM ALWAYS BEING ON THE I-PAD AND DAD GETS OFF FROM WATCHING THE TV OR WHATEVER AND THE FAMILY STARTS REBUILDING THEIR BOND.

IT HAS BEEN A BEAUTIFUL THING TO SEE, BUT THEY ARE EATING HEALTHY AND SAVING MONEY ON THE FOOD BUDGET.

WE ARE TRACKING THIS.

WE ARE DOING EVALUATIONS OF THIS TO SEE WHAT ARE THOSE SAVINGS AND THEY ARE BECOMING VERY SIGNIFICANT.

WE ARE VERY, VERY PROUD OF BOTH OF THOSE PROGRAMS.

>> Laura: I LOVE BOTH OF THOSE PROGRAMS BECAUSE, LIKE YOU SAID, THEY ARE JOYFUL WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THESE LIKE BIG HUGE ISSUES.

IT IS NICE TO REMEMBER THAT ON THE GROUND, ON WHEELS, IN OUR GARDENS, JOYFULNESS IS A PART OF ALL OF THIS WORK.

>> Sandoval: THE POINT OF THE WORK WE DO AT THE CENTER ISN'T JUST THE PROGRAM, TO DO THESE PROGRAMS.

BUT THERE IS REAL VALUES BEHIND IT AND THAT IS, WE WANT OUR COMMUNITIES TO BECOME AS SELF SUFFICIENT AS POSSIBLE, SO WE ARE TRYING TO BUILD SMALL SILOS OF COMPLETE CIRCLES, SMALL ECONOMIC CIRCLES THAT ARE SELF SUSTAINING SO THAT IF ANOTHER PANDEMIC COMES.

WHEN THE FIRST ONE HIT, PEOPLE WENT TO THE STORES AND THERE WERE SHORTAGES FOR A WHILE, BEANS AND RICE WERE GONE, CERTAINLY TOILET PAPER COULDN'T BE FOUND.

SO WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS CREATE THE CAPACITY, ESPECIALLY IN RURAL NEW MEXICO COMMUNITIES TO BE ABLE TO GROW THEIR OWN FOOD AND THEN OUT OF HAVING LEARNED ON HOW TO DO THAT AND WORK COLLECTIVELY TO DO THAT, HOW CAN THEY THEN THEY TAKE ON THE LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICT TO MAKE DEFINITE CHANGES?

HOW DO THEY IMPACT THE COUNTY COMMISSION TO SAY, WE HAVEN'T HAD OUR ROADS PAVED IN 40 YEARS, WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

WE'RE TRYING TO EMPOWER OUR OWN COMMUNITIES AND OUR HOPE IS THAT WE KEEP BUILDING THESE SMALL LITTLE DROPS THAT EVENTUALLY BECOME A LITTLE STREAM AND MAYBE EVENTUALLY BECOME A RIVER.