>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, INCREASING ALCOHOL TAXES.

WHY LAWMAKERS ARE SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING HIKING THE PRICE FOR JUST THE FIRST TIME IN NEARLY 30 YEARS.

>> Szczepanski: OUR HEART AND SOUL NEEDS TO BE FRONT AND CENTER ON THIS WHICH IS OUR CREATIVE ECONOMY.

AND I THINK THE POTENTIAL FOR THIS IS VAST.

>> Gene: AND SUPPORTING NEW MEXICO ARTISTS.

HOW A NEW AGENCY COULD HELP CREATE AND EXPAND CREATIVE INDUSTRIES IN OUR STATE.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

THIS WEEK WE HIGHLIGHT THE WORK OF JOURNALISTS PLACING A KEEN EYE ON THE WANING WATERS OF THE RIO GRANDE.

IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE SHOW OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS ASKS TWO REPORTERS WITH SOURCE NEW MEXICO ABOUT THE CRISIS THEIR WORK IS DOCUMENTING.

WE ALSO HAVE OUR EYE ON THE ROUNDHOUSE AS WE REACH THE HALFWAY POINT OF THE 2023 SESSION.

AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HOUR, OUR LINE PANELISTS DISCUSS A PROPOSED FUND THAT WOULD LAUNCH A PAID FAMILY LEAVE PROGRAM STATE-WIDE.

BUT FIRST, TAXES.

IN ABOUT 18 MINUTES, OUR PANELISTS WEIGH IN ON A PROPOSED INCREASE IN THE STATE'S LIQUOR EXCISE TAX AND WHY SOME SUPPORTERS SAY THE MOVE COULD HELP MAKE THE STATE SAFER.

BUT, WE OPEN OUR SHOW WITH A DISCUSSION ON A BIPARTISAN TAX PLAN THAT WILL CUT THE STATES GROSS RECEIPTS TAX RATE.

LET'S GET TO THE LINE.

>> WELCOME TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS FOR THE WEEK.

WE ARE HAPPY TO BE JOINED IN STUDIO BY KRISTELLE SIARZA.

SHE IS OWNER AND CEO OF SIARZA SOCIAL DIGITAL.

FORMER STATE SENATOR DEDE FELDMAN RIGHT TO HER LEFT.

ALWAYS GLAD TO HAVE MS. FELDMAN.

AND FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE DANIEL FOLEY RIGHT THERE.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

FIRST TOPIC CONCERNS TAXES.

AT THE ROUNDHOUSE THIS WEEK, ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE CONSIDERING A CUT TO THE STATE'S GROSS RECEIPTS TAX RATE.

HOUSE BILL 367, A BIPARTISAN BILL, BY THE WAY, CO-SPONSORED BY FOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS WOULD DROP THE STATE'S GRT RATE FROM 5% TO 4.625%.

ADVOCATES SAY THE BILL WOULD SAVE MORE THAN 400 MILLION FOR NEW MEXICO RESIDENTS AND SMALL BUSINESSES.

HOWEVER, THAT PROPOSED TAX CUT COULD MEAN A DECREASE IN 70 MILLION, START WITH YOU SENATOR FELDMAN, IN TAX REVENUE FOR COUNTIES AND MUNICIPALITIES.

SHOULD THIS GRT TAX BE PASSED?

START WITH A SIMPLE BASE HERE.

WHAT DO WE LOSE?

WHAT DO WE GAIN?

WHAT IS THE PLUS AND MINUS OF CUTTING VERSUS NOT CUTTING.

>> Dede: THIS IS, FIRST OF ALL, A TAX CUT.

AND IT IS A TAX CUT THAT WOULD ALSO INCLUDE AN END TO TAX PYRAMIDING WHICH IS A LONG GRIEVANCE, I THINK, ESPECIALLY SMALL BUSINESSES HAVE HAD.

IT WILL COST THE STATE A LOT OF MONEY AND IT COMES ON THE HEELS OF THE TAX CUT LAST YEAR IN GROSS RECEIPTS TAX, WHICH WAS PHASED IN OVER YEARS.

SO, IT IS GOING TO HIT THE MUNICIPALITIES AND COUNTIES HARD.

WHAT THEY USUALLY DO IN RESPONSE IS THEY RAISE THEIR PORTION OF THE GROSS RECEIPTS TAX, SO IT DOESN'T BENEFIT THE CONSUMER THAT MUCH UNLESS THERE IS SOME SORT OF A HOLD HARMLESS CLAUSE WHICH PREVENTS THEM FROM DOING THAT AND REIMBURSES THEM FOR THE LOST REVENUE.

SO, THIS IS NOT TAX REFORM, I DON'T THINK.

I THINK IT IS JUST ANOTHER TAX CUT.

I WAS HOPING THAT THIS LEGISLATURE WOULD REALLY LOOK AT THE WHOLE TAX STRUCTURE RATHER THAN JUST GIVING AWAY REVENUE, ALSO THINK ABOUT REFORMING THE GRADUATED PERSONAL INCOME TAX AND SOME WAYS OF PICKING UP REVENUE AS WELL AS LOSING REVENUE.

>> Gene: THERE IS A BALANCE YOUR DESCRIBING.

THAT IS A HARD THING.

IF YOU TAKE FROM ONE, SOMEBODY ELSE LOSES.

DO WE HAVE TO HAVE A SYSTEM LIKE THAT?

>> Dede: YES, THAT IS THE TAX SYSTEM.

YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT IT IN A SYSTEM-WIDE WAY.

YOU CAN'T JUST GIVE AWAY EVERYTHING.

YOU CAN'T JUST TAKE IN EVERYTHING.

IT HAS GOT TO BE A BALANCE AND THEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM.

THAT IS WHERE YOU NEED GOOD LEGISLATORS BIPARTISAN APPROACH.

WE HAVE TRIED TO DO IT FOR YEARS UNSUCCESSFULLY.

INSTEAD WE JUST KEEP GIVING ONE BREAK, ONE DEDUCTION AFTER ANOTHER AND THEY ARE ALL IMPORTANT AND THEY ARE ALL GOOD BUT THEY ALL ADD UP.

>> Gene: BY THE WAY, ON YOUR POINT, IT WAS 5.125 BEFORE IT WAS REDUCED TO 5% LAST YEAR.

THAT WAS OUR FIRST TAX CUT GRT IN 40 YEARS GOING DOWN TO 5%.

I HAVE GOT TO ASK, THREE REPUBLICANS, ONE DEMOCRAT SUPPORTING.

THE GOVERNOR IS VERY MUCH SUPPORTING.

FEELS LIKE IT HAS A LOT OF MOMENTUM AT THIS POINT.

SHOULD WE BE CAUTIOUS, THOUGH.

SAME QUESTION INSIDE OUT.

>> Dan: I DON'T FEEL CAUTIOUS AT ALL.

I FEEL LIKE THERE IS NO LACK OF US MAKING MONEY WITH THE GOVERNMENT.

ANY TIME THE GOVERNMENT CAN GIVE MONEY BACK, STREAMLINE THE PROCESS, OBVIOUSLY I AM OKAY WITH THAT.

THE SENATOR IS CORRECT ON A LOT OF STUFF SHE SAID.

I DON'T DISAGREE WITH HER AT ALL.

I DO THINK THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PERSONAL INCOME TAX AND GROSS RECEIPTS TAX AND THEY ARE LOOKING AT THIS FROM A BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE.

IN ALL THE ARGUMENTS WE ARE READING, CITIES AND COUNTIES AND MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, OUR STANCE IS ALWAYS ANYTHING THAT DECLINES REVENUE FOR A CITY, WE SAY IS A BAD IDEA, WHICH IS INSANE.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THERE IS THE POTENTIAL THAT -- LOOK, WITH OUR GROSS RECEIPTS, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, TO THE SENATOR'S POINT, IT IS NOT NECESSARILY JUST THE PERCENTAGE, WHICH IS PRETTY HIGH.

IT IS THE PROCESS OF WHO PAYS IT, WHO DOESN'T PAY IT, WHEN YOU PAY IT, WHO COLLECTS IT, HOW IT GOES IN.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

THAT IS A HUGE PROBLEM.

SO, IT DOES BECOME A HINDRANCE ESPECIALLY SMALL BUSINESSES, RIGHT.

I MEAN IT IS ONE THING TO HAVE TO PAY GRT WHEN YOUR BUSINESS IS MAKING 100 MILLION A YEAR.

YOUR STUFF DOES ALL THAT.

BUT IF YOU'RE A MOM AND POP OPERATION THAT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO GROW, YOU CAN REALLY GET YOURSELF IN A PICKLE WITH THE GROSS RECEIPTS TAX.

I CAN GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

I HAD A CONSTITUENT IN ROSWELL THAT OWNED A HARDWARE STORE AND I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT AT THE END OF THE YEAR THROUGH THE GROSS RECEIPTS PROCESS, HE WOULD SELL STUFF.

SO IF YOU CAME IN, GENE, AND SAID, LISTEN, WE ARE WITH A CHURCH.

WE ARE EXEMPT FROM GROSS RECEIPTS TAX AND HE DOESN'T CHARGE YOU, WHEN THE STATE COMES IN AND AUDITS YOU, THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS LIKE MAINTENANCE ITEMS YOU HAVE TO PAY TAXES ON.

NEW CONSTRUCTION I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU DON'T, BUT IF HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND ALL THAT, GUESS WHO OWES THE MONEY?

HE DOES, EVEN THOUGH HE DIDN'T COLLECT IT FROM YOU.

SOME OF THESE BUSINESSES -- I MEAN, I HAD CONSTITUENTS THAT WOULD COME TO ME ON THE GROSS RECEIPTS ISSUE WHERE BECAUSE THEY ARE THE COLLECTOR, IT IS NOT THEM PAYING FOR, PER SE, THEY HAVE TO COLLECT IT, THAT THEY OWED 10'S OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO THE STATE AND IT CAN BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU STAYING IN BUSINESS OR NOT.

SO I DO THINK, YOU KNOW, WE GOT -- THIS HAS TO BE FIXED.

I DO APPLAUD THE MOVEMENT.

I DO APPLAUD THE FACT THAT THE GOVERNOR IS SUPPORTING THIS TO MOVE THIS FORWARD.

I DO HOPE THERE IS A HOLD HARMLESS CLAUSE BECAUSE THE CITIES WILL TURN AROUND AND RAISE IT.

THE PROBLEM WITH THE HOLD HARMLESS CLAUSE AS WELL ON THE FOOD TAX, REMEMBER, WE GAVE THE MONEY AND THEN WE DID THE HOLD HARMLESS, GAVE THE MONEY AND BY THE TIME THE HOLD HARMLESS WAS RUNNING OUT, THEY JACKED IT RIGHT BACK UP AGAIN.

SO IT SEEMS LIKE AT THE END OF THE DAY, NO MATTER WHAT REFORM WE TRY, THE PERSON THAT LOSES IN THE END IT SEEMS LIKE IS THE TAXPAYER.

>> Gene: I AM SMILING BECAUSE YOU AND OTHERS AND SENATOR FELDMAN, YOU WERE IN ON THIS, 10 YEARS PLUS AGO WE TALKED ABOUT THAT FOOD TAX AND WHAT A PROBLEM IT WAS AND HOW MUNICIPALS WOULD JUST TURN AROUND AND DO THEIR OWN THING ONCE THE STATE TOOK THEIR CUT AT IT.

LET ME GO BACK TO PYRAMIDING, KRISTELLE.

I HAVE GOT TO GET YOU IN ON THIS AS A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER YOURSELF.

>> Kristelle: YEAH, I HAVE A LOT OF THINGS TO SAY.

>> THERE IS A LOT OF CLARITY COMING OUT NOW.

ONE OF THE THINGS I APPRECIATE IN THE ARGUMENT IS THAT IT HAS FINALLY BECOME CLEAR THAT BIGGER COMPANIES HAVE AN ADVANTAGE HERE.

AND DANIEL KNOWS THIS.

YOU CAN HAVE ALL THESE THINGS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO FARM OUT IN-HOUSE THAT YOU HAVE TO COLLECT GRT ON.

I AM NOT SURE ABOUT YOUR COMPANY'S SETUP, BUT THAT IS A HUGE PROBLEM FOR A LOT OF FOLKS OUT THERE.

>> Kristelle: IT IS AND IT ISN'T.

SO I ALMOST BROUGHT MY COMPANY BUDGET TOGETHER JUST TO KIND OF PROVE THE NUMBERS BEHIND WHETHER OR NOT THIS WOULD WORK OR NOT.

BUT WHEN IT CLAIMS TO ACTUALLY FARMING OUT OR WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE OUTSOURCING OR IN-SOURCING, RIGHT.

I DO BOTH.

I HAVE FOLKS THAT ARE ACTUALLY INTERNALLY RUNNING THE FINANCES BUT I ALSO HAVE FOLKS LIKE AN ACCOUNTANT THAT WOULD BE EXEMPT FROM THIS RULE OF GROSS RECEIPTS THAT WOULD ACTUALLY BE OUTSOURCED.

NINE TIMES OUT OF 10 SMALL COMPANIES, YES, THEY SPECIFICALLY OUTSOURCE.

AND THIS ACTUALLY DOES BENEFIT THE SMALL BUSINESS OWNER.

BECAUSE, LET'S SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, YOUR MONTHLY FEE TO AN ACCOUNTANT IS 1,000-DOLLARS, YOU'RE NOT PAYING $1070 ANYMORE BECAUSE OF THE 7% OR IT WOULD BE LESS THAN THAT, SPECIFICALLY.

THE BIGGER COMPANIES, THOUGH, THEY USE THE ARGUMENT THEIR COMPANIES ARE OUTSOURCING FOR THOSE SPECIFIC ENTITIES.

IT IS BECAUSE OF EFFICIENCY, OPERATIONAL EFFICIENCY AND ALSO COST SAVING.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT IS NOT GOING TO MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE.

WHAT NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT IS THE INFLUX OF EXPENSES THAT ALL BUSINESS OWNERS BOTH SMALL AND LARGE HAVE HAD TO ACTUALLY EXPERIENCE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, WHERE A MAJORITY OF EXPENSES ARE ACTUALLY INCREASED 10 TO 20%.

THAT MEANS YOUR RATES ARE RAISING, RATES, PRICES, SERVICES, GOODS FROM 10 TO 15, 20%.

SO, YES, YOU CAN MAKE A BIG DEAL ABOUT -- WAS IT POINT .25% BEING LOWERED, BUT THE MUNICIPALITIES ARE GOING TO GET IT BACK ANYWAYS BECAUSE WE JUST ALL HAVE TO RAISE OUR RATES.

AND SO THAT IS ONE THING THAT IS NOT EVEN TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION AND IF YOU ARE A BUSINESS OWNER WHAT WE HAVE SEEN ON THE ASIAN BUSINESS COLLABORATIVE SIDE IS THAT THE MAJORITY OF BUSINESSES THAT HAVE ISSUES THAT THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH IS THAT THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND GROSS RECEIPTS TO BEGIN WITH, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SALES AND GROSS RECEIPTS.

SO, THE ERRONEOUS NATURE OF TAXATION WOULD ACTUALLY BE ELIMINATED WHERE TAX AND REV DOESN'T HAVE TO COME TO US AS SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS, BUSINESS ASSOCIATIONS TO ACTUALLY EXPLAIN WHAT THE PERCENTAGES ACTUALLY ARE.

AND IT MAKES SENSE THAT REPRESENTATIVE HARPER IS ACTUALLY LEADING THE CHARGE BECAUSE WHAT IS RIO RANCHO NOTORIOUS FOR?

NOT GETTING ENOUGH GROSS RECEIPTS BECAUSE THEY LOSE THE BUSINESS FROM ALBUQUERQUE.

EVERY SINGLE TIME.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINTS THERE.

I HOPE THIS IS PART OF THAT DISCUSSION AND SO SENATOR FELDMAN LET'S GO BACK TO HOLD HARMLESS FOR MUNICIPALITIES.

IT IS GOING TO BE A HECK OF AN ARGUMENT.

FUNDAMENTAL ARGUMENT THAT THE CAN'T REALLY AT THE END OF THE DAY TELL MUNICIPALS EXACTLY HOW TO RUN THEIR THE BUSINESS VERSUS THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

IS THERE A MIDDLE GROUND HERE ON THIS?

WE ARE GOING TO NEED SOME CLARITY ON THIS.

IF WE CAN'T GET IT DONE IN ONE SESSION HOW DO WE GET AROUND IT IN HAVING A TRUE REFORM PACKAGE?

I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR IT FOR A LOT OF YEARS.

>> Dede: IT IS A COMPLICATED AREA, NO.

1, BUT THERE HAVE BEEN BILLS PASSED IN THE PAST THAT HAVE SAID COUNTIES CAN ONLY RAISE THEIR GROSS RECEIPTS TAX A CERTAIN PERCENT EACH YEAR IN AN EFFORT TO ADDRESS THAT.

AND, IN ADDITION, THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT THE STATE COULD SIMPLY GIVE THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE, FOR EXAMPLE, 30 MILLION-DOLLARS THAT IT SAYS IT WILL COST EVERY YEAR.

SO, IN THAT CASE, THE STATE IS OUT NOT JUST THE AMOUNT OF LOST TAX REVENUE FROM, YOU KNOW, LOWERING THE GROSS RECEIPTS TAX BUT ALSO THE PAYMENTS THAT IT HAS TO MAKE TO THE MUNICIPALITIES EVERY YEAR.

SO, IT IS A REAL STICKY WICKET AND THAT IS WHY IT HAS BEEN SO DIFFICULT TO DO IN THE PAST.

>> Kristelle: BUT I THINK THE MUNICIPALITIES ACTUALLY HAVE A BIGGER OPPORTUNITY BY SIMPLIFYING THE GROSS RECEIPTS PROCESS BECAUSE NOW WITH MORE RECRUITMENT FROM ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ENTITIES CAN COME IN TO THE MUNICIPALITY AND ENCOURAGE MORE BUSINESS TO ACTUALLY BE THERE.

LIKE RIO RANCHO CAN BECOME MORE COMPETITIVE THAN ALBUQUERQUE.

SO ONCE THINGS ARE SIMPLIFIED, THE OPPORTUNITY DOOR IS WIDER FOR SMALLER MUNICIPALITIES TO ACTUALLY RECRUIT MORE BUSINESS.

>> Gene: IF YOU CAN DO IT IN 30 SECONDS.

ARE THERE ANY LESSONS TO BE LEARNED FROM THE TIME YOU GUYS WERE IN THE LEGISLATURE ABOUT THE BILL RICHARDSON PUSH TO CUT THE PERSONAL INCOME TAX AND HOW THAT TURNED AROUND TO NOT BE THE GREATEST THING FINANCIALLY FOR THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO.

>> Dan: I THINK IT WAS A GOOD THING FOR THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO, YOU KNOW, WE, IN NEW MEXICO, AT SOME POINT WE ARE GOING TO REALIZE MUNICIPALITIES, COUNTIES THE STATE, IN NEW MEXICO, AND YOU AND I ARGUE ABOUT THIS ALL THE TIME, GENE, WE DON'T HAVE A REVENUE PROBLEM.

WE HAVE AN EXPENSE PROBLEM.

AT SOME POINT YOU HAVE TO STOP SAYING WHEN YOU GIVE MONEY BACK TO THE SHAREHOLDERS, I.E., THE TAXPAYERS, THE FIRST RESPONSE FROM ELECTED OFFICIALS IS NOW WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO DO WHAT WE NEED TO DO.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE ALWAYS DID AND I ALWAYS TRIED TO DO, WHENEVER WE DO THE THINGS AND DO THE HOLD HARMLESS CLAUSES, I ALWAYS TRIED TO ADD A LINE TO THE BILL THAT SAYS IF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT WANTS TO PASS A TAX INCREASE, THEY HAVE TO PUT IT FOR A VOTE.

IT CAN'T BE DONE -- THE CITY COUNCIL CAN'T MEET AND SAY, HEY, WE ARE GOING TO HIKE GROSS RECEIPTS BY A QUARTER PERCENT.

THEY HAVE TO GO OUT AND LET THE PEOPLE VOTE ON IT.

AND WHEN THEY DO THAT, IT IS SHOCKING HOW MANY VOTERS DON'T VOTE FOR THE INCREASE, NO.

1, AND NO.

2, HOW MANY OF THOSE CITIES AND COUNTIES ARE STILL IN EXISTENCE TODAY IN NEW MEXICO.

THEY DIDN'T BLOW AWAY IN THE DUST.

I THINK WE DON'T HAVE A REVENUE PROBLEM AS MUCH AS I THINK THE STATE HAS A SPENDING PROBLEM.

GOOD POINTS THERE.

THANKS TO OUR LINE OPINION PANEL.

WE'LL BE BACK HERE AT THE TABLE IN LAST THAN 10 MINUTES TO TALK ABOUT A NEW BILL TO INCREASE THE STATE'S TAX ON ALCOHOL.

>> Prokop: THERE IS PLACES WHERE THE RIVER IS BREAKING, WHERE IT IS EVAPORATING TO SAND AND SALT AND IT IS GOING AWAY.

AND I THINK THAT WE WERE ABLE TO SPEND TIME WITH PEOPLE WHO REMEMBERED A VERY DIFFERENT RIVER JUST A GENERATION AGO.

IN TEXAS SEEING SIMILAR SIGNS OF THE RIVER THEY LOST HAPPENING IN NEW MEXICO AND EVEN FURTHER UPSTREAM IN THE HEADWATERS OF THE RIVER.

>> Gene: NEW MEXICO IS KNOWN FOR ITS ARTS FROM PAINTS TO POTTERY, MUSIC AND FILM.

OUR STATE IS AN INSPIRING PLACE FILLED WITH CREATIVE PEOPLE BUT ARE WE GIVING THEM ENOUGH SUPPORT?

THAT IS THE MOTIVATION BEHIND A NEW HOUSE BILL THAT WOULD CREATE A NEW STATE AGENCY TO HIGHLIGHT THOSE CREATIVE INDUSTRIES.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT GWYNETH DOLAND WENT TO THE ROUNDHOUSE TO ASK THE BILL'S SPONSOR HOW IT WOULD BENEFIT THE STATE AS A WHOLE.

>> Gwyneth: REPRESENTATIVE, YOU HAVE A BILL THAT WOULD ESTABLISH THE NEW MEXICO CREATIVE INDUSTRIES DIVISION WITH 67 MILLION-DOLLARS.

WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF CREATIVE INDUSTRIES.

WE ARE HERE AT THE CAPITOL WHICH HAS AN AMAZING ART COLLECTION.

ARE WE TALKING ABOUT PAINTINGS?

>> Szczepanski: WE ARE TALKING ABOUT VISUAL ARTISTS, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SCULPTORS, BUT WE ARE ALSO TALKING ABOUT DANCE.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT VIDEO GAME DESIGN, ARCHITECTURE, THE ENTIRE BREADTH OF CREATIVE INDUSTRIES, WHICH IS INCREDIBLY VAST.

WE ALSO HAVE CERAMIC ARTISTS AND WE HAVE TILE MANUFACTURERS.

SO IT IS PRETTY DIVERSE AND DIVERSE IN SIZE AS WELL.

>> Gwyneth: SO WHAT WOULD THE ECONOMIC IMPACT BE OF INVESTING A WHOLE BUNCH OF MONEY JUST FOR THIS?

>> Szczepanski: YOU KNOW THIS INDUSTRY IS ALREADY CONTRIBUTING 5.6 BILLION-DOLLARS TO NEW MEXICO'S ECONOMY BUT AS WE ARE LOOKING FOR SOLUTIONS TO FURTHER DIVERSIFY OUR ECONOMY AND PREPARE FOR THAT DAY WHEN OIL AND GAS REVENUE IS NOT AS SIGNIFICANT AS IT IS NOW IN OUR STATE'S BUDGET, OUR HEART AND SOUL NEEDS TO BE FRONT AND CENTER ON THIS, WHICH IS OUR CREATIVE ECONOMY.

AND I THINK THE POTENTIAL FOR THIS IS VAST AND THAT IS WHY THE SIZE OF THE INVESTMENT WE ARE ASKING FOR IS ALSO SIGNIFICANT.

BECAUSE IT IS EVERYTHING FROM INFRASTRUCTURE TO INDIVIDUAL ASSISTANCE FOR BUSINESSES, TRAINING OF ENTREPRENEURS AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN.

>> Gwyneth: WE ARE HERE IN SANTA FE RIGHT NOW AND SANTA FE, AS WE KNOW WE LIKE TO BRAG, THAT THIS IS THE ART CAPITOL OF THE STATE.

SO IS THIS ONE BIG WET KISS FOR SANTA FE?

>> Szczepanski: IT IS A BIG HUG FOR SANTA FE AND A BIG HUG FOR THE REST OF THE STATE TOO.

WE HAVE PEOPLE WORKING ON THIS FROM ALL ACROSS THE STATE, FROM ROSWELL, TO FARMINGTON TO SILVER CITY, LAS CRUCES.

ALBUQUERQUE, OF COURSE.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THE ARTS ECONOMY IS A VERY SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF SANTA FE'S ECONOMY BUT IT IS ALSO A HUGE PORTION OF GALLUP'S ECONOMY, YOU KNOW, THE NUMBER OF INDIVIDUAL ARTISTS IN OUR STATE IS SECOND TO NONE IN OUR COUNTRY.

SO WHY NOT CAPITALIZE ON ALL OF THESE NATURAL TALENTS WE ALREADY HAVE AND HELP PEOPLE GROW SO THAT THEY ARE NOT DOING THEIR ART AT NIGHT.

I MET AN INDIAN MARKET FIRST PRIZE WINNER A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO AND HE HAS A DAY JOB.

HE HAS A DAY JOB.

THAT DAY JOB PAYS HIS BILLS AND PROVIDES BENEFITS FOR HIS FAMILY AND HE IS A NATIONALLY RENOWNED ARTIST.

CAN'T WE INVEST NOW SO THAT SOMEONE LIKE HIM CAN TURN THAT ART INTO A FULL-TIME JOB THAT REALLY PROVIDES THAT LIVING FOR HIS FAMILY.

>> Gwyneth: SO, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT GIVING 67 MILLION-DOLLARS TO INDIVIDUAL ARTISTS SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORK DURING THE DAY?

>> Szczepanski: NO, ALTHOUGH I AM SURE THAT THERE WOULD BE MANY WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THAT.

WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS THINGS LIKE SHARED INFRASTRUCTURE.

SO, MAKER SPACES, HOUSING FOR CREATIVE ECONOMY, IN PROFESSIONALS, WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT INVESTMENTS IN THOSE BUSINESSES SO THEY CAN EXPAND.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT SO THAT WE HAVE A PIPELINE OF FOLKS READY TO WORK IN SOME OF THE LARGER CREATIVE INDUSTRIES AND THEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SHARED COMMUNITY RESOURCES LIKE GALLERY SPACE.

LIKE HERE IS A SHARED MANUFACTURING FACILITY THAT DOES 3-D PRINTING AND ALSO HAS ALL THESE OTHER TOOLS THAT ARE VERY EXPENSIVE BUT CAN REALLY HELP ARTISTS PROVIDE A LIVING FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES.

WE HAD A FOUNDRY IN SANTA FE THAT WAS USED BY METAL ARTISTS ALL OVER THE REGION THAT RECENTLY CLOSED DURING THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

ALL OF THAT BUSINESS IS NOW GOING TO COLORADO BECAUSE THERE ARE SEVERAL FOUNDRIES IN COLORADO.

THAT IS KIND OF A PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP WE COULD HAVE WHERE WE COULD BRING IN STATE DOLLARS TO REALLY MAKE SOMETHING LIKE THAT STAY AFLOAT FOR THE FIRST TWO YEARS SO THAT OUR LOCAL ARTISTS COULD UTILIZE THAT AND NOT HAVE TO DRIVE THEIR WARES TO COLORADO.

COLORADO IS ACTUALLY -- SOME OF THOSE BUSINESSES ARE SENDING FOLKS TO SANTA FE TO PICK UP THAT WORK AND DELIVER AFTER IT HAS BEEN PRODUCED.

THAT IS ONE EXAMPLE OF ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY THAT WE WANT TO HAVE HERE.

WE WANT TO HAVE IT HERE, BASED HERE, NEW MEXICO OWNED, NEW MEXICO RUN.

>> Gwyneth: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TELLING US ABOUT THIS.

>> Szczepanski: THANK YOU.

>> Gene: HOUSE BILL 8 WAS REPORTED OUT OF THE HOUSE COMMERCE ECONOMIC AND DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE WITH A DO PASS RECOMMENDATION LAST WEEK.

STICKING WITH THE LEGISLATURE A GROUP OF DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS IS PUSHING INCREASE TO THE STATE'S ALCOHOL TAX.

NOW, IT IS AN ISSUE WE COVERED HERE IN NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IN COLLABORATION WITH NEW MEXICO IN-DEPTH FOR MONTHS NOW.

NOW, IF HOUSE BILL 230 GOES THROUGH, TAXES WOULD GO UP 25 CENTS A DRINK.

PROPOSAL WOULD ALSO DEDICATE AN EXTRA 155 MILLION IN REVENUE TO SUPPORT ALCOHOL TREATMENT CENTERS.

NOW, ANOTHER FACTOR IN THIS EQUATION IS NEW MEXICO'S NATION LEADING ALCOHOL REPRESENTED DEATH RATE.

LAST YEAR, HERE IN NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS I SPOKE WITH A PANEL EXPERTS ABOUT SOME OF THE CONTRIBUTING FACTORS AND POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS.

NOW DURING THAT DISCUSSION, JOURNALIST TED ALCORN EXPLAINED EVEN SLIGHT TAX INCREASES ON ALCOHOL HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO LOWER ALCOHOL DEATH RATES.

>> Alcorn: THE BASIC ECONOMIC PRINCIPLE OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND SAYS WHEN YOU RAISE TAXES A LITTLE BIT, YOU REDUCE DEMAND.

IN THE CASE, IN PARTICULAR, REDUCED DEMAND BY YOUNG PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE NECESSARILY AS MUCH ACCESS TO CASH AND PEOPLE THAT ARE REALLY EXPOSED TO THE PRICE INCREASES BECAUSE THEY ARE CONSUMING A LOT OF ALCOHOL.

AND SO THE RESEARCH HAS GONE ON OVER MANY YEARS AND IN MANY STATES AND ON MY READ OF IT ALL, IT SEEMED PRETTY DEFINITIVE THAT WHEN YOU RAISE ALCOHOL TAXES, THERE IS A REDUCTION IN CONSUMPTION AND THAT YOU SEE A LOT OF REDUCTIONS IN THE HARMS THAT ALCOHOL CAN HAVE.

>> Gene: YOU CAN WATCH THAT ENTIRE DISCUSSION WITH MR. ALCORN, ALSO A CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST, A PRIMARY CARE DOCTOR IN GALLUP AND A STATE REPRESENTATIVE, THAT WOULD BE JOANNE FERRARY, ONLINE RIGHT NOW AT THE NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS YOUTUBE PAGE.

LET'S BRING IN OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS TO TALK ABOUT THE LEGISLATION AT HAND.

THE HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES COMMITTEE VOTED 6-4 FRIDAY TO ADVANCE HOUSE BILL 230 BUT IT IS FACING OPPOSITION FROM THE NATIONAL ALCOHOL INDUSTRY AND LOCAL BREWERIES.

NOW BILLS LIKE THIS HAVE BEEN INTRODUCED BEFORE AT THE ROUNDHOUSE, AND, DANIEL, IS THIS THE YEAR THAT LAWMAKERS APPROVE THE INCREASE THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED FOR THREE DECADES PLUS?

IS IT THE TIME?

>> Dan: NO.

GENE, AS WE SAID IN THE LAST SEGMENT, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THE SENATOR IS GOING TO THROW A PEN AT ME, I AM NEVER IN FAVOR OF RAISING ANY TAXES.

WE DON'T HAVE A REVENUE PROBLEM.

WE LOOK AT THESE THINGS LIKE WE TALK ABOUT SMOKING CESSATION, FOR INSTANCE, WE RAISE THE TAXES ON CIGARETTES, IT IS GOING TO STOP SMOKING.

THERE IS MORE PEOPLE SMOKING TODAY THAN THERE WERE 25 YEARS AGO.

SO, NONE OF THIS STUFF -- >> Gene: THAT MIGHT NOT BE TRUE BUT KEEP ROLLING.

>> Dan: NOT WRONG AT ALL.

WE HAVE -- THEY MAY NOT BE SMOKING CIGARETTES.

WE MOVED ON TO VAPE BECAUSE WE HAVE CREATED OTHER THINGS FOR THEM TO DO.

>> Gene: INDUSTRIES ARE TRICKY THAT WAY.

>> Dan: THEY ARE.

SO, I THINK RAISING THE TAXES ON ALCOHOL, YOU KNOW, AND ESPECIALLY NOW I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO FIND THE SAME THING THAT HAS HAPPENED WITH TOBACCO WITH AMAZON PRIME NOW YOU'LL JUST GET PEOPLE ORDERING ALCOHOL FROM OUT OF STATE AND HAVING IT SHIPPED IN JUST LIKE THEY DO WITH TOBACCO AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY THESE TAXES.

IT BECOMES A HUGE PROBLEM.

>> Gene: LET ME ASK THE SENATOR ABOUT THIS.

THE PROPOSED TAX WOULD INCREASE THE STATE'S LIQUOR EXCISE TAX 25 CENTS PER DRINK.

WE HAVE SOME FOLKS OUT THERE AGAINST THIS.

THE ALBUQUERQUE CHAMBER IS AGAINST IT, AMONGST OTHERS.

WHAT IS THE HARM, 25 CENTS A DRINK?

IS ANYBODY GOING TO NOT DRINK BECAUSE OF THAT, A 25-CENT INCREASE?

>> Dede: YES, PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO DRINK BECAUSE OF THAT AND IT IS YOUNG PEOPLE, IT IS PEOPLE THAT ARE EXTREME DRINKERS, BINGE DRINKERS.

AND IT HAS BEEN PROVEN IN OTHER STATES TO DECREASE DWI, TO DECREASE BINGE DRINKING, YOUTH DRINKING AND I THINK THERE WAS A STUDY OUT OF BOSTON UNIVERSITY THAT SAID OVERALL RAISING THE TAXES ON ALCOHOL DECREASED DRINKING BY ABOUT 7%.

THAT IS A STUDY.

AND THE OTHER STATES HAVE ACTUALLY DONE IT AND FOUND A REDUCTION.

SO, I THINK IT WOULD BE EVEN MORE SO IN NEW MEXICO BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T HAVE AS MUCH MONEY AND ARE MORE PRICE SENSITIVE IN NEW MEXICO THAN THEY ARE, YOU KNOW -- THINK ABOUT THE NAVAJO RESERVATION.

THINK ABOUT SOME OF THE RURAL AREAS OF THE STATE.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT WILL HAVE A BIG IMPACT.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINT, I HAIL FROM A STATE THAT RAISED TAXES ON ALCOHOL MANY YEARS AGO, KRISTELLE, AND THE IDEA OF CHANGING BEHAVIOR VIA TAXING IS A DIFFICULTY FOR SOME PEOPLE.

THEY A INNATE DISLIKE FOR THAT KIND OF THING.

BUT AS THE SENATOR POINTS OUT, IT DOES WORK AND CHANGE BEHAVIOR RAISING TAXES.

>> Kristelle: IT DOES AND WHAT GETS CHALLENGING AND TRICKY TO US IS WE HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION HOW ALCOHOLISM PLAYS A BIG FACTOR IN SOCIOECONOMIC LEVELS.

THE LFC CAME OUT WITH A REPORT ON HOUSE BILL 230 AND THEY SAID HIGHEST WOULD BE TENNESSEE, OUR NEIGHBORING STATES ARE ONLY 16 CENTS, 8 CENTS AND 20 CENTS, ARIZONA, COLORADO AND TEXAS AT THAT GREAT NUMBER.

I THINK THE BIG CHALLENGE, THOUGH, IS THAT BECAUSE NEW MEXICO NEEDS MORE RESOURCES FOR PUBLIC HEALTH SPECIFICALLY ON ADDICTION, LIKE ALCOHOL, IT BECOMES REALLY EXPENSIVE TO FUND PUBLIC HEALTH INITIATIVES LIKE THIS.

I THINK THE BIG CHALLENGE THAT PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO GET REALLY UPSET ABOUT THOUGH IS THAT THIS FUND IS -- THE INCREASE IS SUPPOSED TO FUND A NEW PROJECT WHICH WOULD BE CALLED THE ALCOHOL ALLEVIATION FUND AND JERRY ORTIZ Y PINO HAD A SIMILOR BUT DIFFERENT BILL THAT HASN'T MADE IT TO COMMITTEE YET, WHERE HE IS LIKE DON'T PUT IT INTO GENERAL FUND, LIKE DON'T PUT IT INTO -- BACK TO THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO.

FURTHER PAY FOR DWI PREVENTION AND ITEMS OF THAT SORT.

OUT OF FULL DISCLOSURE, LIKE WE CURRENTLY HAVE A CLIENT THAT IS DWI PREVENTION AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE NUMBERS AND THE BRAND AWARENESS AND THE IMPRESSIONS LIKE -- NOT OUR CLIENT, THAT IS A GOOD EXAMPLE, RIGHT?

THAT AWARENESS STILL NEEDS TO GET OUT THERE AND THE COST OF ADVERTISING AND MARKETING IS NOT GETTING LESS AND LESS.

>> Gene: THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT.

DANIEL THE PROBLEM, THE NUMBERS ARE NOT GOOD, HOW WE DRINK HERE.

YOU KNOW.

THE RAMIFICATIONS AND INTERVIEW WITH MR. ALCORN AND OTHERS AND ESPECIALLY THE PHYSICIAN OUT IN GALLUP, THE COSTS ARE ENORMOUS.

THEY MAY BE HIDDEN, WE MAY NOT SEE THEM AS REGULAR CITIZENS, THE ENORMOUS FAMILY COSTS, SO, AGAIN, WHY NOT, DANIEL, IF IT DECREASES PAIN OUT THERE ACROSS THE STATE.

I HEAR YOUR POINT EARLIER BUT WHY NOT?

>> Dan: IT DOESN'T DECREASE PAIN, GENE.

PEOPLE FIND OTHER ALTERNATIVES TO GO TO LIKE WE HEAR THE STUFF HERE WE HEARD JUST NOW IF WE RAISE IT 25 CENTS A DRINK IT STOPS YOUTH DRINKING.

WELL, IT DECREASES.

HOW DOES IT DECREASE IT.

YOU START BUYING DRINKS AT BARS.

THEY ARE BUYING CANS AND THEY ARE BUYING BOTTLES.

THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BARS AND BUYING A SHOT OF TEQUILA.

SO AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE PROBLEM IS, AGAIN, AT THIS TABLE WE HAVE ALL THESE FEEL GOOD, RAISE THE TAX, DO ALL THIS STUFF BUT WHERE ARE WE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF IT WITH HOLDING PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE WHEN THEY COMMIT A CRIME, MAKING SURE THEY GET THE HELP THEY NEED, FORCING THEM TO GET HELP THEY NEED.

>> Gene: PART OF THE MONEY IS EARMARKED FOR THAT.

>> Dan: WE HAVE HAD THE MONEY.

WE HAVE HAD IT FOR YEARS.

AND WE HAVE HAD THE LAWS FOR YEARS BUT WE DON'T HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE.

WHY ARE PEOPLE -- LOOK AT THE NEWS EVERYDAY, GENE.

THERE IS PEOPLE DYING IN DWI CRASHES THAT WE FIND OUT THE PERSON THAT WAS INVOLVED IN THE DWI CRASH, IT IS THEIR SEVENTH, EIGHTH, NINTH, 10TH TIME AND YOU'RE TELLING ME THE ANSWER TO THAT PROBLEM IS TO RAISE THE TAX FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE OBEYING THE LAW WHEN WE ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BREAKING THE LAW.

AND I DO THINK THERE HAS TO BE A BETTER ELEMENT OF THE HELP BECAUSE THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, WE HAVE A WHOLE SEGMENT OF NEW MEXICANS THAT YOU JUST CAN'T LOCK THEM UP.

THERE HAS TO BE A SYSTEMIC CONSCIOUS CHANGE AND WE HAVE GOT TO WORK ON THAT BUT THE ANSWER ISN'T TO SAY, HOW DO WE DO THIS?

LOOK THE OTHER PROBLEM IS ANY TIME WE CREATE THESE FUNDS IN THE LEGISLATURE, IT NEVER DOES WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO DO.

LOOK AT THE TOBACCO SETTLEMENT FUND, I MEAN WE BURNED THROUGH THAT THING.

THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

>> Gene: I HEAR YOU BUT LET ME THROW SOMETHING ELSE ON THE TABLE.

KRISTELLE, I WANT YOU TO FOLLOWUP THE SENATOR ON THIS.

I THINK IT IS INTERESTING.

WE HAVE A LOT OF SOCIETAL CHANGE RIGHT NOW ABOUT HOW WE DRINK, GEN-EX AND MILLENIALS ARE NOT THROWING DOWN BOOZE THE WAY BOOMERS DID.

IT IS JUST A FACT.

>> Kristelle: HAVE YOU SEEN ME ON A SATURDAY NIGHT?

>> Gene: YOU'RE NOT AS BAD AS BOOMERS, TRUST ME.

YOUNG PEOPLE JUST DON'T DO THAT.

THEY DON'T GET -- RIGHT, EXACTLY.

>> Kristelle: IT DEPENDS, RIGHT.

>> Gene: IN NEW YORK, BIGGER CITIES, YOU PAY $45 FOR A SPECIALTY DRINK.

YOU CAN HAVE ONE OR TWO OF THEM A NIGHT AND YOU HAVE HAD A GREAT NIGHT.

YOU'RE NOT THROWING SHOTS OF TEQUILA.

>> Kristelle: THAT IS WHAT PRE-GAMING IS FOR, RIGHT.

YOU'RE STILL GOING TO GET ALCOHOL.

NO MATTER WHAT.

AND YOUR STILL ARE GOING TO AFFECT THE LOWER PAYCHECKS FROM OR THE HIGHER PAYCHECKS THAT SOME OF THE FOLKS NEED AND, YEAH, YOU KNOW, THE FISCAL IMPACT OF IT IS REALLY GOING TO MAKE A CHANGE IN DECISION MAKING, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, LIKE YOU WERE SAYING, LIKE THERE HAS TO BE SOME TYPE OF SYSTEMATIC CHANGE THAT LEADS A PERSON TO DRINK IN THE FIRST PLACE AND THAT IS WHAT IS REALLY GOING TO MAKE THE DIFFERENCE VERSUS INCREASING THE ALCOHOL TAX.

IT IS A LITTLE ALARMING BUT HOW HIGH IT IS GOING TO BE AND, SPENDING PROBLEM, HOW IT IS GOING TO BE SPENT.

>> Gene: AND ANOTHER ONE FOR THE SENATOR, AND ALL IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO GET IN ON THIS, LOCAL BREWERIES ARE NOW A BIG DEAL IN OUR STATE AND GENERATING A LOT OF INCOME.

A LOT OF FOLKS ARE MAKING GOOD LIVES FROM THIS BUSINESS AND THEY ARE OPPOSED TO THIS.

ARE THEY ON SOLID FOOTING?

ARE THEY DIFFERENT THAN OTHER ALCOHOL BECAUSE IT IS CRAFT BREW?

>> Dede: WELL, THEY HAVE GOTTEN A TAX BREAK.

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT TAX BREAKS IN THE PAST.

THEY HAVE GOTTEN A TAX BREAK IN THE NAME OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND LOCAL INDUSTRY.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN YOU CAN LOOK AT IT FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF STOPPING DRINKING AND DEBATE WHETHER IT DOES THAT OR NOT OR WHETHER ANYTHING WILL DO THAT OR NOT, BUT YOU CAN ALSO LOOK AT IT IN TERMS OF FAIRNESS IN TERMS OF TAXATION.

AND WHETHER WE AREN'T EVEN SUBSIDIZING THE ALCOHOL INDUSTRY RIGHT NOW IN THE WAY WE TAX ALCOHOL BY VOLUME AND NOT BY PRICE.

AND IN THE FACT THAT WE HAVEN'T CHANGED THE DARN RATE FOR 50 YEARS.

ISN'T THAT A SUBSIDY TO A SPECIAL INTEREST WHETHER IT BE A BREWERY, WHETHER IT BE A WINERY, AND THE SAME ARGUMENT THAT YOU WERE MENTIONING WAS MADE FOR WINERIES, AND WE GAVE THEM A TAX BREAK.

SO, IT IS JUST, TO ME, ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF A VERY POWERFUL SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP BEING QUESTIONED BECAUSE OF ITS HUGE ADVANTAGE.

>> Gene: ARE WE AT THE POINT, SENATOR, AND HOUSE MEMBER WHERE THIS IDEA THAT THESE FOLKS ARE ALL POWERFUL HAS GOT TO STOP?

EVERYONE TALKS ABOUT THE LIQUOR LAW IN SANTA FE AND -- >> Dan: THE NO.

1 ISSUE ON EVERY LEGISLATOR'S MIND, GENE, IS REELECTION.

>> Gene: OKAY.

>> Dan: PERIOD, END OF STORY.

THE WORST PLACE TO BE OBVIOUSLY BETWEEN A LEGISLATOR AND TV CAMERA, BUT MORE THE IMPORTANT THING IS BETWEEN LEGISLATORS AND FUNDRAISERS.

IT IS ALL ABOUT GETTING REELECTED.

AND SO, YES, IT MEANS A LOT TO THEM, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY WE HAVE TO LOOK TO THE POINT THAT THE SENATOR WAS MAKING.

I THINK WE ALSO -- WE GOT TO STOP -- SHE'S RIGHT, WITH ALL THE SPECIAL EXEMPTIONS AND CUTS.

I CAN TELL YOU THIS.

I AM NOT A DRINKER.

I DON'T LIKE TO DRINK.

I TURN INTO BAD SANTA WHEN I DRINK, SO IT IS NOT A GOOD THING FOR ME.

AND SO IT IS -- I DON'T ENJOY IT BUT I HAVE GONE -- WILL GO OUT TO THE BREWERIES.

A LOT OF THE BREWERIES IN TOWN LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF BEER YOU CAN BUY.

LIKE YOU GET FIVE BEERS AND THAT IS IT, YOU'RE DONE.

>> Kristelle: YEAH, A BEER LIMIT.

>> Dan: IT IS -- THEY ARE DOING THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, IF WE ARE SAYING WE ARE RAISING THIS TAX JUST TO HELP WITH DRUNK DRIVING AND ALCOHOL STUFF, THEN IF YOU'RE GOING TO HURT AN INDUSTRY THAT IS MAKING A CONSCIOUS DECISION TO SAY, WE HAVE A TWO-BEER LIMIT.

THAT IS ALL YOU CAN DRINK IN THIS BREWERY.

>> Dede: THAT IS A MANDATE.

IT IS ILLEGAL FOR OVER SERVING.

>> Dan: IT IS NOT TWO BEERS, SENATOR.

OVER SERVING IS A DECISION THE BUSINESS IS MAKING, A DECISION TO SAY WE WILL ONLY SELL YOU TWO BEERS.

SO, I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO ALSO -- IF WE ARE GOING TO PUNISH BAD BEHAVIOR, WE HAVE TO REWARD GOOD BEHAVIOR.

>> Gene: STOP THERE.

THANKS AGAIN TO THE PANELISTS, DAN FOLEY RIGHT THERE.

NOW, WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK IN JUST OVER 10 MINUTES FOR A DISCUSSION ON PAID FAMILY LEAVE.

FIRST, TWO LOCAL REPORTERS DOCUMENT HOW THE STATE'S ONGOING DROUGHT IS IMPACTING COMMUNITIES AND ENVIRONMENTS ALONG THE 700 MILES OF THE UPPER RIO GRANDE.

OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS SITS DOWN WITH SOURCE NEW MEXICO REPORTERS DANIELLE PROKOP AND DIANA CERVANTES TO DISCUSS THE NEW SERIES, CRISIS ON THE RIO GRANDE.

>> Laura: WELCOME YOU TWO.

14 STORIES ACROSS 700 MILES OF THE RIO GRANDE.

THIS IS GREAT WORK AND I AM REALLY ENJOYING THESE STORIES AS THEY ARE CONTINUING TO ROLL OUT.

THANKS FOR BEING WITH ME HERE TODAY.

>> Prokop: THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> Cervantes: YES, THANKS LAURA.

DANNI, LET'S START WITH YOU.

IN A NUTSHELL, AND I KNOW THIS IS A BIG ASK, BUT IN A NUTSHELL, WHAT IS THE CRISIS ON THE RIO GRANDE?

>> Prokop: THE CRISIS ON THE RIO GRANDE IS THAT IT IS NOT A WILD RIVER ANY MORE IN MORE AND MORE PLACES.

THERE ARE PLACES WHERE THE RIVER IS BREAKING WHERE IT IS EVAPORATING TO SAND AND SALT AND IT IS GOING AWAY.

AND I THINK THAT WE WERE ABLE TO SPEND TIME WITH PEOPLE WHO REMEMBERED A VERY DIFFERENT RIVER JUST A GENERATION AGO IN TEXAS SEEING SIMILAR SIGNS OF THE RIVER THEY LOST HAPPENING IN NEW MEXICO AND EVEN FURTHER UPSTREAM IN THE HEADWATERS OF THE RIVER.

>> Laura: YEAH.

SO, DIANA, YOUR IMAGES THAT I HAVE SEEN SO FAR OF THE RIVER ARE REALLY BEAUTIFUL AND SORT OF EVOKE THE LANDSCAPE BUT I AM REALLY SMITTEN WITH SO MANY OF THE PEOPLE YOU PHOTOGRAPHED ALONG THE WAY AND I WAS WONDERING IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND SHARING YOUR SCREEN AND INTRODUCING US TO SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE TELLING US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF THOSE FOLKS YOU MET ALONG THE WAY.

>> Cervantes: OF COURSE.

LET ME JUST QUICKLY SHARE MY SCREEN.

SO ONE OF THOSE WONDERFUL PEOPLE, AS YOU SEE HERE, IS ESTELLA PADILLA.

SHE GREW UP AROUND THE RIVER AND SHE HAS SEEN THAT SAME RIVER DRY UP AND NOW IT ONLY EXISTS IN HER MEMORY.

SO IT IS KIND OF A CAUTIONARY TALE OF WHAT CAN HAPPEN FOR THE REST OF US UPSTREAM AND HER MEMORIES OF THE RIVER ARE SORT OF A LAMENTATION, AS SHE CALLS IT, AND ONE OF THE BEAUTIFUL THINGS SHE SAYS ABOUT IT IS THAT THE RIVER IS LIKE THE CIRCULATORY SYSTEM OF THE BODY.

IF YOU CUT IT OUT, YOU DIE.

WE GLEANED A LOT FROM HER.

SHE WAS ONE OF THOSE SPECIAL PEOPLE.

WE THEN MOVED ALONG TO MEET JOHN SPROUT.

HE IS FATHER OF THE BOSQUE.

HE IS TAKING CARE OF THE RIVER BOSQUE WETLAND PROJECT IN EL PASO.

AND THIS PAST SUMMER, BECAUSE OF THE DROUGHT, THEY HAD TO HAND WATER A LOT OF TREES.

WE ALSO SPOKE WITH AMAZING PHOEBE SUINA, HYDROLOGIST WITH COCHITI PUEBLO.

AND SPEAKING WITH HER IT WAS EVIDENT THAT SHE LIVES WITH THIS VERY PAINFUL AND STARK PRESENCE, WHICH IS THE COCHITI DAM, AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN HUMANS INTERFERE IN THE WILD SPACES.

SO IT WAS WONDERFUL TO LEARN FROM HER.

WE ALSO MET WITH AMAZING WESLEY WHO I CALL THE LONE FIGHTER FOR THE OXBOW THAT IS IN ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO.

NOT MANY PEOPLE KNOW OF IT BUT HE IS DOING HIS WATER STUDIES OUT THERE AND SO HE TOOK US TO SOME PARTS OF IT AND IT WAS WONDERFUL TO SEE HOW THESE WILD PLACES CAN BE SO SPECIAL AND HOPEFULLY MOTIVATE US TO TAKE CARE OF THEM.

WE SPENT SOME TIME WITH FOLKS FROM THE U.S.

FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE SOME OF THE ENDANGERED SILVERY MINNOW.

ONLY FOUR PEOPLE FIGHTING A STRETCH ALONG THE RIVER TO SAVE THESE LITTLE GUYS AND IT WAS JUST HEART WRENCHING.

THOMAS, NOT PICTURED HERE, THERE IS SOMETHING POWERFUL ABOUT THE WORK THEY ARE DOING, THEY LOVE WHAT THEY ARE DOING, TRYING TO DO THE BEST THEY CAN, BUT HE SAID IT IS LIKE SLAPPING A BAND-AID ON A SEVERED LIMB.

SO IT IS GIVING US THE SCOPE OF WHAT THEY ARE UNDERTAKING.

NOT ONLY HAS CLIMATE CHANGE IMPACTED THE LOCAL NATIVE SPACES OR THE ENVIRONMENT, BUT IT ALSO HAS IMPACTED DAILY LIFE ACTIVITIES ESPECIALLY HERE IS A GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS WHO GO UP AND BLESS THE OJO SPRINGS.

AND BECAUSE OF DROUGHT THEY CAN'T MAKE THE FULL TREK BECAUSE IT IS SO DANGEROUS TO DO IT IN THE HEAT.

WE ARE SEEING HOW CLIMATE CHANGE IS AFFECTING NATIVE TRADITION.

AND WE SPOKE WITH TYLER BROWN WHO UNDERSTANDS THE IMPACT OF AGRICULTURE, THAT IT HAS ON THE ENVIRONMENT, AND HE IS TRYING DO HIS BEST TO IMPLEMENT GREENER PRACTICES IN DAY-TO-DAY RANCHING EVEN WHILE HE TRIES TO MAKE A LIVING BY EVEN CUTTING DOWN THINGS THAT THEY USE FOR CROPS SUCH AS BARLEY FOR THE COORS BEER.

AND WE SPOKE WITH THE AMAZING SCHOONOVER, WHO WE SPENT TIME WITH HER OUT ON HER FARM AND SHE HAS CUT BACK ON THE AMOUNT OF CATTLE SHE RAISES.

SHE HAS SEEN A LOT OF IMPACTS ON THE ENVIRONMENT ESPECIALLY THE FAMILIES VALLEY AND SHE LEARNS A LOT FROM THE ANIMALS SHE CARES FOR.

ONE OF THE BEAUTIFUL QUOTES SHE SAID WAS THAT ANIMALS HAVE SO MUCH TO TEACH US, SHE SAID, IF YOU EVER LOOK IN A COW'S EYES OR HORSE'S EYES, YOU SEE A WISDOM THAT THEY KNOW SOMETHING YOU DON'T.

SO, THIS IS HER OUT IN HER FIELD.

YEAH, THESE ARE JUST SOME OF THEM.

THIS IS JUST TOUCHING BASES A LOT MORE AND I HOPE YOU GUYS CAN TUNE INTO THE STORIES THAT DANNI AND I HAVE POURED OUR HEARTS INTO.

>> Laura: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING THOSE.

IT IS LOVELY TO SEE THOSE PEOPLE AND REALLY YOU'RE SO TALENTED DIANA.

SO, LAST SUMMER, RIVER DRYING MOVED INTO THE ALBUQUERQUE REACH.

AND I THINK AS YOU BOTH WELL KNOW THE DRYING -- THE RIVER HAS DRIED SOUTH OF ALBUQUERQUE FOR MANY YEARS AND WHEN THAT DRYING CAME INTO THE ALBUQUERQUE REACH, YOU KNOW, MORE PEOPLE STARTED PAYING A LITTLE BIT MORE ATTENTION.

BUT, I WAS WONDERING WHAT STRUCK EACH OF YOU ABOUT COVERING THAT BECAUSE I KNOW THAT YOU WERE HERE ON THE GROUND WHEN THAT WAS HAPPENING LAST SUMMER.

>> Prokop: IT IS SO HARD TO KEEP THE RIVER IN MEMORY IS SOMETHING THAT STRIKES ME.

WHEN THE MONSOONS HIT, JOHN THOMPSON DESCRIBED IT AS GREEN VEIL, RIGHT, THAT COVERS OUR EYES AND I FIND THAT MAYBE SPEAKING WITH MORE PEOPLE EVEN ACROSS THE SAN LUIS VALLEY ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FORGOTTEN REACH, THAT MAYBE THE VEIL IS FINALLY BEING DRAWN BACK IN A MORE SUBSTANTIVE WAY.

WE ARE EVEN SEEING THAT THE RAIN WHEN IT COMES OR WHEN THE SNOW PACK IS BETTER THAN IT HAS BEEN, THAT EVEN THAT IS NOT ENOUGH AND SO THAT MAYBE THE RIVER IS MORE HELD IN MEMORY, BUT IT IS SO HARD WITH THIS AMNESIA THAT HAPPENS IN WET YEARS AND DRY YEARS.

WHEN YOU'RE IN DROUGHT YOU DON'T REMEMBER WHAT IT IS LIKE TO HAVE A RUNNING RIVER AND WHEN YOU DO HAVE A RUNNING RIVER, YOU DON'T REMEMBER JUST HOW FRAGILE AND HOW CLOSE TO THE EDGE IT REALLY IS.

>> Laura: WHAT ABOUT YOU, DIANA, AS YOU WERE PHOTOGRAPHING THAT.

>> Cervantes: I MEAN, FOR ME IT WAS VERY -- IT IS KIND OF LIKE A TIME CAPSULE, RIGHT.

EVEN THOUGH TO GO IN THE SAN LUIS VALLEY IT IS BEAUTIFUL NOW BUT IT WAS EVEN MORE BEAUTIFUL WHEN WE HAD CONSTANT RAIN.

EVEN TO THINK ABOUT THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS WE HAVE MISSED BECAUSE I THINK ABOUT IT LIKE, OH, I WAS JUST CAPTURING THIS A FEW YEAR'S AGO AND IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN SO DIFFERENT, OR TAKING PHOTOS OF THE RIO GRANDE NATIONAL FOREST AND SEEING ALL THESE DEAD TREES WAS LIKE A GUT PUNCH.

YOU DRIVE THROUGH AND YOU SEE LIKE TOOTHPICKS JUST STICKING OUT AND YOU ARE LIKE, WOW, I REMEMBER DRIVING THROUGH HERE YEARS AND YEARS BEFORE AND THERE WAS THIS BEAUTIFUL LUSH GREEN PLACE AND NOW IT IS LIKE THERE ARE SO MANY PATCHES OF JUST DEAD TREES.

IT IS CRAZY TO SEE THINGS ACTIVELY DYING BEFORE YOUR EYES AND HOPEFULLY TRYING TO CAPTURE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN SO YOU CAN SHARE WITH PEOPLE AND HOPEFULLY THEY CAN FEEL THE DISAPPEARANCE HAPPENING.

>> Laura: I APPRECIATE THAT THE STORY LOOKED ACROSS THE WATERSHED AND ACROSS THREE STATES INSTEAD OF THE WAY WE COVER THE NEWS ABOUT THE RIVER IS OFTEN VERY PIECEMEAL, SO I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT ABOUT THIS SERIES.

BUT I ALSO LIKE THAT SO MANY OF THE STORIES FEATURE PEOPLE GRAPPLING WITH MORAL ISSUES AND I AM CURIOUS WHAT YOU BOTH THINK WHAT ARE THE MORAL QUESTIONS THAT WE ALL NEED TO BE ASKING, NOT JUST A FARMER, NOT JUST A WATER MANAGER, LIKE, WHAT ARE THESE BIG MORAL QUESTIONS WE NEED TO REALLY GRAPPLE WITH?

>> Prokop: IT IS SO FASCINATING TO UNDERSTAND THE RIVER.

WE KEPT SEEING THESE PARALLELS OF SPIRITUALITY, RIGHT, WHETHER IT WAS THE POETRY THAT WAS INVOKED IN PEOPLE BEING WITH ESTELLA FURTHER DOWNSTREAM TALKING ABOUT HER HEART BEING CUT OUT WHEN THE COTTONWOOD DIED AND THE RIVER DRIED, TO THEM SPEAKING WITH SOMEONE UP IN THE SAN LUIS VALLEY WHO NEVER MET ESTELLA TALKING ABOUT HOW HIS HEART WAS LIKE HURT BY LOOKING AT THE RIVER.

IT WAS SO FASCINATING TO SEE IT AS A CONNECTIVE TISSUE AND I THINK, TOO, THE HUGE MORAL QUESTIONS THAT WE ARE GRAPPLING WITH IS THAT THE RIVER IS CHANGED BY CHOICE.

IT WAS CHANGED BY HUMAN CHOICES WHICH ARE NOW BEING -- THE HEAT IS BEING TURNED UP.

IT IS BEING BURNED WITHOUT OUR CONTROL, WITH CLIMATE CHANGE, BUT THAT TOO IS HUMAN CAUSED, RIGHT?

SO, THESE QUESTIONS ARE CHOICES.

ALL OF THIS RIVER, THIS RIVER THE WAY THAT IT IS NOW, IS A CHOICE THAT WE ARE MAKING AND I AM NOT SAYING THOSE CHOICES ARE EASY.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT CHANGING THOSE CHOICES WOULD BE IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM EASY, I JUST THINK THAT NOW WITH LESS WATER, THOSE CHOICES ON SOVEREIGNTY ON AGRICULTURE, ON ECOLOGY, THEY ARE STARING US IN THE FACE NOW AND IT IS MUCH MORE LIFE AND DEATH.

>> Laura: WHAT ABOUT YOU DIANA, ANY LAST WORDS?

>> Cervantes: WELL, LIKE DANNI SAID A LOT, BUT I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO MORALITY I THINK WE HAVE TO QUESTION -- I THINK WE HAVE TO QUESTION OURSELVES AND SAY WHAT CAN I DO.

I DON'T KNOW IF THIS ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION, BUT SOME OF THE PEOPLE I TALK TO IN OTHER PROJECTS THEY ARE LIKE, YOU KNOW, I COULD EITHER FEEL HELPLESS AND DO NOTHING ABOUT IT AND FEEL HELPLESS AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

SO I THINK RIGHT NOW, APART FROM JUST QUESTIONING MORALITY WHAT WE CAN DO, AND SEEING HOPEFULLY HOW THESE PEOPLE HAVE SHARED SO MUCH OF THEIR LIVES AND HOPEFULLY THAT INSPIRE US TO DO OUR PART.

BUT TO REALLY SPEND TIME OUT THERE AND SEE WHAT WE ARE ABOUT TO LOSE, YOU KNOW.

IF WE SPEND TIME IN NATURE AND SPEND TIME IN IT, WE UNDERSTAND IT AND WE FEEL ITS SPECIAL PRESENCE AND WE DECIDE TO FIGHT FOR IT.

>> Laura: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE WITH ME TODAY.

I HOPE THAT YOU'RE BOTH REALLY PROUD OF THIS SERIES.

IT IS REALLY SUCH A TESTAMENT TO YOUR HARD WORK AND REALLY A GIFT TO EVERYONE WHO READS IT.

SO, THANK YOU.

>> Prokop: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Gene: TIME TO WELCOME BACK OUR PANELISTS FOR ONE FINAL DISCUSSION TONIGHT.

STATE OFFICIALS ARE DEBATING A PROPOSED BILL THAT WOULD CREATE A PAID FAMILY LEAVE PROGRAM FOR WORKERS ACROSS THE STATE.

IF APPROVED SENATE BILL 11 WOULD REQUIRE EMPLOYERS AND EMPLOYEES TO MAKE REGULAR PAYMENTS TO A STATE FUND THAT WOULD ALLOW QUALIFIED EMPLOYEES 12 WEEKS OF PAID LEAVE TO CARE FOR PERSONAL FAMILY MATTERS.

THIS BILL COMES ONE YEAR AFTER STATE LAWMAKERS, YOU MIGHT REMEMBER THIS, CREATED A MANDATE THAT BUSINESSES PROVIDE SICK LEAVE TO WORKERS.

KRISTELLE, IS MANDATED FAMILY LEAVE THE LOGICAL NEXT STEP HERE OR ARE THERE SOME LAND MINES THAT COULD BE STEPPED ON ALONG THE WAY THAT ARE UNSEEN?

IT SEEMS SO SIMPLE BUT SOMETHING SEEMS DEBATABLE HERE.

>> Kristelle: I AM NOT THE MODEL BUSINESS OWNER TO SAY ESPECIALLY WHEN I SERVED ON VARIOUS DIFFERENT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TASKFORCES FOR BOTH RIO RANCHO AND ALBUQUERQUE, THE PERSPECTIVE OF PAID FAMILY LEAVE DOESN'T -- IT DOESN'T HELP THE BUSINESS OWNER WITH ANOTHER REGULATION OR REGULATORY POLICY THAT THEY HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION.

HOWEVER, ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS I USED TO MAKE ABOUT PAID FAMILY LEAVE OR PAID SICK LEAVE IN THIS INSTANCE IS THAT THE BUSINESS OWNER REALLY NEEDS TO EVOLVE THEMSELVES INTO BEING A MORE FAMILY FRIENDLY EMPLOYER.

OR MORE ETHICAL EMPLOYER.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, MY COMPANY DOES PAY FAMILY LEAVE AND LIKE YOU HAD MENTIONED OFF AIR, WOW, YOU GUYS A LITTLE BIT MORE FORWARD LEANING AND PROGRESSIVE.

NO, IT IS JUST THE RIGHT THING TO DO BECAUSE IF ALL OF OUR EMPLOYEES OF BIRTHING AGE, OR MOST IMPORTANTLY, ALL OF OUR EMPLOYEES ARE ACTUALLY AT A POINT WHERE THEIR PARENTS ARE AGING.

FAMILY LEAVE IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT NO MATTER WHERE IT IS AND SO THAT IS WHAT VERY COMMON IN OUR INDUSTRY.

SO, FAMILY LEAVE IS JUST AN EXAMPLE OF HOW YOU CAN BE A BETTER EMPLOYER, WHETHER THE MANDATE IS A GOOD MANDATE TO BEGIN WITH IS REALLY CHALLENGING BECAUSE BUSINESS OWNERS DON'T LIKE TO BE TOLD WHAT TO DO.

END OF DISCUSSION.

WHILE WE ARE TALKING OFF CAMERA THERE IS A REALLY IMPORTANT CLAUSE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION IN THIS BILL.

IT IS HOW IT IS GOING TO BE REGULATED.

HWA IS REALLY WELL REGULATED.

HWA BEING HEALTHY WORKPLACES ACT.

RIGHT?

SO HR COMPANIES WORKING WITH OURS, IT WAS EASY.

FOR EVERY HOUR, EVERY 30 HOURS YOU WORK, THERE IS ONE HOUR.

END OF DISCUSSION.

THAT IS NOT HARD TO MANAGE AND MONITOR IF YOU HAVE THE RIGHT RESOURCES.

THIS ONE YOU HAVE TO PAY THE STATE.

YOU CAN EVEN HEAR SECRETARY FAIR IN A LOT OF THE INTERVIEWING, SHE IS REALLY NERVOUS IF THIS ACTUALLY BECOMES A THING IN WORKFORCE SOLUTIONS.

>> Gene: EMPLOYEES, SENATOR, MUST HAVE WORKED FOR 90 DAYS TO QUALIFY.

THE COST TO EMPLOYERS WILL BE $4 FOR EVERY THOUSAND DOLLARS OF WAGES.

EMPLOYEES WOULD PAY $5 FOR EVERY THOUSAND DOLLARS OF WAGES.

SOUNDS PRETTY SIMPLE BUT KRISTELLE BROUGHT UP SOMETHING INTERESTING THAT THERE IS A LOT OF NUANCE HERE DEPENDING ON THE AGE RANGE OF FOLKS.

WHAT ABOUT THIS FOR YOUNG FAMILIES, FOR WOMEN EMPLOYEES.

THERE IS LOTS OF DIFFERENT WAYS TO LOOK AT THIS AS OPPOSED TO A BIG BLANKET DEAL.

ANYTHING ABOUT THIS CONCERN YOU WHEN IT COMES TO WOMEN PARTICULARLY AND HOW THIS WOULD AFFECT EMPLOYEES?

>> Dede: I THINK IT WOULD, IN PARTICULAR, HELP WOMEN, BECAUSE WOMEN ARE NORMALLY THE FAMILY CAREGIVERS WHETHER IT BE FOR THEIR PARENTS OR FOR THEIR CHILDREN.

AND, OF COURSE, THEY ARE THE ONES THAT NEED LEAVE WHEN THEY ARE PREGNANT AND HAVE JUST GIVEN BIRTH.

SO, IT IS A BILL THAT WILL REALLY HELP WOMEN BUT IT WILL HELP THE WHOLE FAMILY AND I THINK THAT IS THE POINT.

I THINK IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT TO MENTION THAT THIS IS NOT FOR SMALL BUSINESSES UNDER FIVE EMPLOYEES.

SO, MOST NEW MEXICO BUSINESSES ARE UNDER FIVE EMPLOYEES.

I THINK THERE IS SOMETHING LIKE 160,000 OF THEM IN NEW MEXICO.

WE ARE A SMALL BUSINESS STATE SO THIS DOESN'T APPLY TO THEM.

AND, YOU KNOW, FOR BETTER OR WORSE, I THINK IT COULD JUST COST TOO MUCH FOR SMALL BUSINESSES.

BUT IT IS ALSO, I THINK, A WAY TO ATTRACT EMPLOYEES TOO IF YOU HAVE THIS KIND OF BENEFIT, AND THAT IS IMPORTANT TOO.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINT THERE, KRISTELLE, THE KAISER FAMILY FOUNDATION SAYS LESS THAN HALF OF EMPLOYED WOMEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY SAY THEIR EMPLOYER OFFERS PAID PARENTAL LEAVE.

I GOT TO THINK IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY THE WAY SENATOR IS MENTIONING.

>> Kristelle: IT IS.

SO YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT IT FROM BOTH SIDES.

THE EMPLOYEES ARE GOING TO SEE THAT IT IS GOING TO BE MORE FAVORABLE TO WORK FOR A COMPANY THAT IS GOING TO BE ACCOMMODATING TO THEIR LIFE VALUES AND THEIR LIFE-STYLE INCLUDING FATHERS.

YOU HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION ADOPTEES AND PARENTS THAT WOULD ACTUALLY BENEFIT FROM PAID SICK LEAVE.

HOWEVER, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT YOU RUN INTO FROM THE BUSINESS OWNER SIDE IS THE FACT THAT YOU'RE AT FOUR, YOU ARE AT FOUR EMPLOYEES, OR FOUR -- AND IT DOESN'T SPECIFY IS IT FTE'S ON PART-TIMERS, RIGHT?

TECHNICALLY TWO PART-TIMERS EQUAL ONE FULL-TIMER.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT OBAMA CARE ACT, THERE WAS A LOT OF COMPANIES THAT DON'T WANT TO BE OVER 50 BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO PAY THAT HEALTHCARE LIMITATIONS OR THAT MANDATE.

SO, FIVE EMPLOYEES FOR PAID SICK LEAVE WILL ACTUALLY BE A GROWTH STUNTER FOR A LOT OF COMPANIES BECAUSE THEY'LL HAVE TO GO AND IF YOU CAN RUN THE NUMBERS AGAIN FOR EVERY FIVE DOLLARS -- $5 FOR EVERY 1,000 -- >> Gene: 1000.

>> Kristelle: I CAN'T DO THE MATH VERY FAST, BUT THAT COULD ACTUALLY STUNT GROWTH FOR ONE EMPLOYEE, A NEW SERVICE, A NEW CONTRACTOR, ET CETERA.

SO IT REALLY SCREWS UP WITH THE PERFORMANCE AND PROJECTIONS FOR DOWN THE ROAD AND ALSO THE GROWTH THAT THEY WANT TO HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION.

SO, FOR US, EVERY TIME WE HAVE TO ADD A NEW BENEFIT MANDATE AT SIARZA, THAT ACTUALLY MEANS THAT COULD COST US BETWEEN 10 TO EVEN $30,000 PER YEAR AND THOSE NUMBERS ARE NOT TAKEN INTO THE DEBATE OF PAID LEAVE.

>> Gene: SOUNDS LIKE AN EMPLOYER.

INTERESTING, DOVETAIL SOMETHING.

THERE IS A BIGGER PICTURE HERE PERHAPS.

>> Dan: YOU ARE COMING TO ME FOR THE BIGGER PICTURE?

>> Gene: YES, I AM.

AND I'M GOING TO EVOKE SENATE PRO TEM MIMI STUART WHILE I AM AT IT.

ANYWAY, SHE IS SPONSOR AND SENATE MAJORITY WHIP MICHAEL PADILLA IS IN ON THIS AS WELL, MEANING A REDUCTION IN INFANT MORTALITY AND CHILD ABUSE.

THAT IS THE LONG GOAL HERE, MEANING THAT STABILITY, A BIGGER PICTURE IF THE BILL IS APPROVED.

WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

>> Dan: I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT IS GOING TO PLAY OUT.

I MEAN, I THINK THAT -- LISTEN, WE HAVE A PROBLEM IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.

THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO AREN'T FIT TO BE PARENTS WHO ARE PARENTS AND SOMETIMES PUTTING THE KIDS WITH THEM MORE OFTEN, FOR MORE TIME, IS NOT NECESSARILY THE RIGHT MOVE WHICH HAS BEEN THE ARGUMENT IN NEW MEXICO, RIGHT?

WHEN WE HAVE HAD THIS ARGUMENT WITH CYFD ON GETTING KIDS BACK IN WITH FAMILIES.

SOMETIMES KIDS DON'T BELONG BACK WITH FAMILIES.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENS IS THAT LOTS OF TIMES THERE IS A MOTIVE TO PASS A PIECE OF LEGISLATION AND BOTH SIDES START GOING TO EXTREME EMOTIONAL DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WHY WE ARE DOING THIS, WHEN THE REALITY IS, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I THINK THE INTENTIONS ARE RIGHT BEHIND THAT.

BUT I THINK WHAT WORRIES ME IS ONCE AGAIN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE ALL THIS MONEY, GIVE IT TO THE STATE.

I HAVEN'T READ THE BILL, I'LL GO ON RECORD WITH THAT.

WHAT HAPPENS?

I REMEMBER NOT TOO LONG AGO WHEN I WAS IN THE LEGISLATURE AND IN SOME CASES THAT IS A VERY LONG TIME AGO, WE HAD THE EMPLOYMENT TAX AND WE HAD THIS HUGE SURPLUS AND LEGISLATURE WAS GOING TO GIVE IT BACK TO EMPLOYEES.

IT IS 100% PAID BY THE EMPLOYER AND THEY WERE GOING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GIVE IT BACK TO EMPLOYEES.

NOW THIS BILL, HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHAT DOLLAR GOES BACK TO WHO.

AND THEN AS WE HAVE SEEN MANY TIMES WITH THIS TYPE OF STUFF, WE HAVE SEEN IT WITH THE GAS TAX, RIGHT?

WE HAVE A GAS TAX AND GAS TAX IS INTENDED TO DO WHAT?

FIX ROADS AND BRIDGES IN THE STATE.

WHAT DO WE DO?

WE TAKE THAT MONEY, IT GOES TO THE GENERAL FUND AND FIND WAYS TO USE IT FOR OTHER THINGS.

I THINK WHEN WE START TELLING BUSINESSES, HEY, WE GOT A GREAT IDEA, WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT, WE HAVE A GREAT IDEA.

YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE US MONEY AND WE ARE GOING TO HELP ADMINISTER THIS PROGRAM FOR YOU.

I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A GREAT TRACK RECORD.

>> Gene: LET ME ASK THE SAME QUESTION FOR THE SENATOR.

WE HAVE THAT LONG PLAY ABOUT INFANT MORTALITY.

12 WEEKS OF LEAVE, IT HAS BEEN PROVEN BY STUDY AFTER STUDY THAT A MOM THAT IS ABLE TO STAY HOME AND CONNECT WITH HER CHILD LEADS TO MUCH BETTER OUTCOMES FOR THAT CHILD DOWN THE ROAD.

>> Dan: YOU HAVE TO TALK TO MY MOM.

>> Gene: SHE IS A LOVEY LADY, I HAVE HEARD.

NOT FROM YOU BUT FROM OTHERS.

12 WEEKS IN THIS BILL, THAT IS A LONG TIME.

THE 11 STATES THAT HAVE A SIMILAR DEAL THAT IS PASSED, ONLY REQUIRE EIGHT WEEKS OF PAID LEAVE.

I AM ASKING IS THERE A MIDDLE GROUND HERE YOU CAN SENSE IN YOUR GUT THAT COULD POSSIBLY MAKE IT MORE PALATABLE FOR BIPARTISAN SUPPORT ON THIS IDEA THAT IT HELPS FAMILIES IN THE LONG RUN TO HAVE THIS.

>> Dede: AS A MOTHER I DON'T THINK THAT 12 WEEKS IS TOO LONG BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT TAKES A WHILE TO BOND WITH YOUR CHILD.

AND THE FIRST TWO WEEKS, I ALMOST DON'T EVEN COUNT THAT.

>> Gene: ANY PARENT CAN CONNECT.

>> Dede: IT IS DIFFICULT.

>> Dan: IT WASN'T VERY DIFFICULT FOR ME.

>> Dede: THESE CREATURES DO NOT COME WITH OPERATOR'S MANUAL, YOU KNOW, SO, YOU HAVE TO LEARN AND THE CHILD REALLY BENEFITS MORE THAN YOU THINK WHEN YOU'RE DOING THE MOTHERING AND PUTTING IN THE TIME.

SO, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT IN THE SAME WAY WE NOW RECOGNIZE THAT EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT IN SETTING THE STAGE FOR LATER LIFE.

>> Gene: KRISTELLE, I WANT TO COME BACK TO SOMETHING YOU MENTIONED I AM SO FASCINATED WITH.

THE IDEA THAT THE FAMILY LEAVE PROGRAM, COULD THAT INCENTIVIZE COMPANIES THAT ALREADY PROVIDE PAID FAMILY LEAVE LIKE YOURS TO ACTUALLY OPT FOR THE STATE OPTION?

IS THAT SOMETHING YOU THOUGHT ABOUT AS WELL?

>> Kristelle: OF COURSE NUMBERS, RIGHT.

AGAIN, I ALMOST BROUGHT MY BUDGET.

I ALMOST BROUGHT THE BALANCE SHEET THAT I HAVE IN MY COMPANY BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY HAS BECOME A LITTLE BIT OF AN ACCOUNTING NIGHTMARE.

I SAY THAT IT HAS BECOME A LITTLE BIT OF AN ACCOUNTING NIGHTMARE BECAUSE PAID LEAVE, PAID TIME OFF AND PAID SICK LEAVE IS ACTUALLY A LIABILITY FOR A COMPANY.

IT MAY POSSIBLY ALLEVIATE THE LIABILITY ON THE WORTH OF A COMPANY DOWN THE ROAD, BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT ALSO BECOMES KIND OF A PAIN BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THE MONEY HAS TO LEAVE HANDS.

THE NO.

1 CHALLENGE THAT SMALL BUSINESSES HAVE IS CASH FLOW.

>> Gene: I GOT TO WRAP YOU THERE.

IT IS A PROBLEM.

STAY OR GO.

DEPENDING ON A STATE RUN PROGRAM COMES FRAUGHT WITH THINGS.

THANKS AGAIN TO OUR PANELISTS AS ALWAYS THIS WEEK.

THESE GUYS WERE TERRIFIC.

BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANY TOPICS THESE FOLKS COVERED ON OUR FACEBOOK, TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM PAGES AND CATCH UP ON ANY EPISODE YOU MAY HAVE MISSED ON THE PBS VIDEO APP ON YOUR ROKU OR SMART TV.

>> Laura: HI, I AM LAURA PASKUS, SENIOR PRODUCER OF OUR LAND.

WE WORK HARD TO BRING YOU ENVIRONMENTAL NEWS AS PART OF NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

WE TAKE YOU OUT TO THE MOUNTAINS AND DOWN TO THE RIVER.

WE INVITE TOP NOTCH SOURCES INTO THE STUDIO, BUT THERE IS SO MUCH HAPPENING WHEN IT COMES TO CLIMATE CHANGE, WATER, FIRE, ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE, AND MORE, THAT WE JUST CAN'T FIT IT INTO THE SHOW EVERY WEEK.

THAT IS WHY WE HAVE A NEWSLETTER, OUR LAND WEEKLY, THAT COMES OUT EVERY TUESDAY.

IF YOU WANT TO KEEP UP WITH ENVIRONMENTAL NEWS, JUST PUBLISHED PEER-REVIEWED STUDIES AND MORE, SIGN UP.

IT IS FREE, IT IS EASY AND I PROMISE YOU'LL LEARN A LOT.

>> Gene: MUCH THANKS TO THE PANEL FOR THE DISCUSSION AND TO MY COLLEAGUE LAURA PASKUS, FOR HER DISCUSSION WITH THOSE TWO REPORTERS FROM SOURCE NEW MEXICO ON OUR RIO GRANDE WATER WOES.

NOW, SPEAKING OF WATER WOES IN NEW MEXICO, LET ME POINT YOU TO ANOTHER SERIOUS WATER ISSUE HAPPENING UNDER THE FEET OF MANY OF OUR SMALLER COMMUNITIES, PARTICULARLY THE REPORTING FROM SEARCHLIGHT NEW MEXICO ON THE TRULY FRIGHTENING PROBLEM OF WATERLINES FAILING IN TRUTH OR CONSEQUENCES RIGHT NOW.

NOW, GET THIS, NEARLY HALF OF T OR C'S WATER SUPPLY LINES ARE MORE THAN 50 YEARS OLD WITH A RESULTING LOSS OF OVER 200 MILLION GALLONS OF PRECIOUS WATER LOST TO LEAKAGE.

THAT IS NEARLY 45% OF THEIR WATER.

IT IS AN INCREDIBLE READ, TRULY FRIGHTENING BECAUSE AS SEARCHLIGHT REPORTS, IT WILL COST NORTH OF 20 MILLION TO REPLACE THE CURRENTLY LEAKING PIPES AND 150 MILLION FOR THE WELL SYSTEM IN TRUTH OR CONSEQUENCES.

NOW THIS IS A FAMILIAR STORY ACROSS OUR STATE BECAUSE THE INABILITY TO KEEP WATER INFRASTRUCTURE UP TO DATE THROUGH LOCAL USE RATES HAS CAUGHT UP WITH US.

IT IS NOT ENOUGH MONEY.

T OR C CANNOT HANDLE A 150 MILLION-DOLLAR NUT WITH MORE LOCAL TAX INCREASES WHICH THEY DID TO THE TUNE OF 30% AND YOU CAN'T TIGHTEN ANYMORE BELTS EITHER FOR 150 MILLION.

NOW, THE LEGISLATIVE FINANCE COMMITTEE REPORTED IN 2021, THAT OUR STATE, QUOTE, LIKELY NEEDS MORE THAN 2.8 BILLION IN REPAIRS TO OUR WATER SYSTEMS AND ADD TO THAT FUNDING IS OFTEN PIECEMEAL, END QUOTE.

IN T OR C GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS -- HERE IS THE REAL PROBLEM -- IN THE RECENT PAST HABITUALLY MOVED MONEY RESIDENTS PAID INTO THE WATER FUND INTO THE GENERAL FUND TO PAY FOR OTHER THINGS.

IT IS MADNESS, ALL TOO COMMON.

IN MANY STATES IT IS ILLEGAL TO DO THAT.

WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THAT.

I LOVE T OR C. I'VE BEEN THERE TWICE IN THE RECENT MONTHS AND SEEING ALL THOSE ORANGE BARRELS ON THAT AMAZING MAIN STREET RIGHT NOW HURTS, AND, BY THE WAY, THAT WORK WAS PAID FOR BY A 3.9 MILLION-DOLLAR RURAL DEVELOPMENT GRANT.

YOU CAN SEE WHAT IS COMING FOLKS.

ALL IT IS GOING TO TAKE IS ONE MAJOR BREAK IN T OR C WITH NO ONE GETTING WATER TO WAKE THIS PART-TIME LEGISLATIVE BODY UP THAT THERE IS A STATE-WIDE LIT FUSE ON OUR MOST PRECIOUS RESOURCE.

IT IS TIME TO MAKE TAKING MONEY MARKED FOR WATER INFRASTRUCTURE FOR OTHER USES NOT POSSIBLE IN NEW MEXICO.

IT IS ALSO TIME FOR A STATE-WIDE BAILOUT PLAN FOR THE 2/3 OF OUR WATER SYSTEMS THAT SERVE 500 OR FEWER CUSTOMERS.

THEY ARE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK IN FOCUS.