LAURA: Hi, Reyuan.

REYAUN: Hi.

LAURA: I was wondering, if we could start, would  you just tell us a little bit about yourself and   a little bit about Nuestra Tierra?

REYAUN: Yes.

(Speaking   Navajo) Associate Environmental Justice Director.

Quite a long job title, but that is fine.

My name  is Reyaun Fancisco and I am of the Mexican People   Clan, born for the Towering House People Clan.

My  maternal grandfather is Maii Deeshgizhnii (Coyote   Pass People Clan).

And that is who I am and how  I introduce myself in my native language.

I am   working with Nuestra Tierra Conservation Project  as the Associate Environmental Justice Director.

And it's an incredible role and opportunity  for me to be able to live up to our mission,   to ensure that historically underrepresented  groups across the state are, and have the voice in   public lands management and in  conservation projects across New Mexico.

Oh, sorry... LAURA: It's all right... no... go ahead.

REYAUN: And of course one in particular  is Chaco and bringing an Indigenous voice   to to that front, to the forefront.

LAURA: Yeah, well thanks for being here with   me today.

It's really fun to see you, even though  we're not in person.

So, can we start with...   so we're going to be talking about the greater  Chaco landscape and oil and gas development.

But,   can we start with the area around Chaco?

Can  you sort of describe that landscape for, maybe,   people who haven't been there or maybe  who haven't been there in a little while?

REYAUN: Yeah.

It's a desert of course, with,  but it has a such a unique beauty to it, with   the beautiful plateaus and the beautiful sunsets  and sun rises in the area and it, I don't know   how to describe it.

It's just an incredible desert  and it, but it's so much more than that as well,   you know.

There's tapestries of stories, songs  and prayers and stories that are just in this   land and what makes it so incredible and unique.

And you know, so for some people it's more than   what your eyes can behold.

It's all about  feeling and being in presence and in knowing that   our ancestors are in those areas watching  over us and protecting us and protecting   the land.

And that is why it's so important to  protect and what really makes it so beautiful.

LAURA: Yeah, even as an outsider...

I'm not from  New Mexico.

I've only lived here 24 or 25 years,   but when I am in that landscape, I, it's so  beautiful.

And, like you said, there's so many   stories.

There's so much history.

There's sacred  sites and archaeological sites and there's also,   there's also oil and gas infrastructure that  is, I think, some of it is hidden from view,   you know.

If people are only accustomed to  driving up 550 or going only certain places,   they might not see all of it, but it really seems  like, in the past couple of decades, it's really   grown, too.

So it's like this juxtaposition,  almost.

Can you talk a little bit about the   current oil and gas development that's in that  area and maybe some of the impacts that it has   on the landscape, or on communities?

REYAUN: Yeah, that's a really great   point and a really great question.

And, you  know, a lot of those gas leases are recent   and happened in the Trump era, when a lot of  these regulations were postponed or ignored.

And   it is a burden to the communities  there.

And, in particular, you know,   in the Counselor, Torreon and Ojo  Encino area, a committee called,   committee created or developed a cultural  spiritual and health impact assessment   in their respective Chapters.

And through that,  they found that a lot of the communities members   were experiencing symptoms related to oil and  gas pollutions, chemical exposures and methane   emissions.

And that was having an impact on their  health and in a community where you don't have   medical care, access for miles, for hours even,  being able to get to the nearest hospital is a   burden.

And if you're not capable of providing  financial resources to be able to meet, or go to   healthcare senators, or centers, than you're  not able to be able to live a healthy life   and that's the devastating part about all of  this is that our communities are suffering.

The people there are suffering and we  still want to, and, continue to want to   develop and extract those resources rather  than putting the people first.

We're putting   oil and gas corporations first.

LAURA: You know, you mentioned   how far people's homes and communities can be  from medical care.

It's been a few years since   I've been up there, but I remember, like, some of  those back roads that connect communities to say   550 really get all churned up by the  the big trucks that are going through.

Is that still a problem out there, because I  remember that made me feel like pretty nervous...  REYAUN: Yeah, but that is a big problem.

And  in a recent community or a council, council,   Navajo Nation Council meeting, they discussed  those issues and they talked about how community   members, when they're trying to get their  kids to schools or when they're trying to   get, to be able to buy groceries for the month,  that they were stuck in these long lines behind   oil and gas breaks that were coming in and out of  the community and were disregarded.

And, you know,   we're not able to go out that day, because of  those long things and also it does damage to   the roads.

And a lot of the roads there have  been impacted severely, to the point where   it's just not, you know, wear and tear  vehicles happens much more faster than   normal.

LAURA: So, now the U.S. Bureau of Land Management   has put out a proposal to withdraw leases in that  area.

Can you talk a little bit about what that   proposal is and what it would, what it would do?

REYAUN: Yeah, so the main gist, or the main point   of that is that 10 miles radius from  the Chaco park will, or area will be   protected from oil and gas drillings.

And  this is important to protect those cultural   sites and those buildings.

And it's a maybe it's  definitely an important first step, but it's not   done.

We need to do more to ensure that the Bureau  of Land Management and the Department of Interior   creates meaningful collaborations with Indigenous  communities that the resource management planned   is re-developed to ensure that Native voices,  Indigenous communities are able to be part of   that process.

And I really put a step forward in  protecting the people who live in the area and   still safeguard these areas and putting their  health and safety first from future oil and   gas explorations and making that clear with the  federal government and with the communities.

So,   it's an important first step in ensuring that  the people in this place is protected for   future generations, not just this generation.

LAURA: So, I remember it's been a few years   since I've been reporting on these issues, but I  remember hearing a lot about tribal consultation   when it comes to oil and gas  leasing.

And, I remember hearing   lots of people saying that they didn't feel  like the tribes were adequately, you know,   consulted with, is, like, the legal language,  but like what it really means, where tribal   voices were not incorporated into  planning.

Do you think that that has   changed at all?

Do people have more of  a voice?

What are we looking at there?

REYAUN: I feel historically, and in the, you  know, in the 21st century we have experienced   those problems, but I mean we have our first  Native American Secretary of Interior and she   is from this area and she knows how important  this community and the communities in   the surrounding area are, not just for  the structures, but for those stories,   songs and prayers that are still on these lands  and still hold these lands together.

And, I think   the collaboration and consultation part  hasn't been, you know, a hundred percent   adequate, but, you know there's gonna  be those shortcomings and it's important   for Native communities to have that voice and  representation in the secretary's office and to   leverage those conversations, as well and  the community members there know again the   health impacts they have suffered and want to  ensure that their health and safety is put at   the top of the list, not oil and gas corporations.

LAURA: So we'll put a link to the BLM's proposal   in comments in the, in the  Facebook comments there, but,   so there's a public comment period open right  now, is that right?

REYAUN: Yeah, so there's   two dates that are set for public comment.

There's  one via zoom and then there's one in person,   in Farmington, New Mexico, I think, February 23rd  and 24th.

The 23rd is the in-person comments and   then the 24th is the Zoom comments, but they're  able to visit the Bureau of Land Management and   email them as well about more information.

LAURA: Okay, So I remember   hearing about there was a like a federal report  back in the 1970s that referred to like this area,   this Four Corners area as a sacrifice zone,  I think back then they were talking about   coal as well as natural gas development.

And, I'm curious what you think, like,   what do Americans continue, what do Americans  sacrifice by continuing to focus so intently   on fossil fuel extraction in this one  part of the country, under-represented   communities, Indigenous communities.

REYAUN: I mean we've only been able to   have these conversations come to light in the  past, what, five, ten years was, you know,   we're starting with the oil line pipelines going  through in North Dakota and in those areas and   in Native Communities and... which spurred the  movement for Indigenous communities to voice   their opinions and say we're no longer going  to sacrifice ourselves to be able to provide   oil and gas to the rich and the wealthy or  to industries.

And we're no longer going to,   or we no longer want to sell our land or  ancestors for any amount of money.

And that's   a huge movement that have had, that  has happened in the past ten years and   deserves to be heard and recognized all throughout  the federal government.

And to ensure that   Indigenous communities are consulted with and  free, prior-informed consent is maintained   for all Indigenous communities, not just in  the United States, but also in Canada and in   North, South America.

And it's just so important.

LAURA: So this, this... the BLM's proposal   to withdraw leases, you know.

This is  looking at a specific part of the state   and I'm curious, you know, what you would like  people from all over New Mexico, to understand   about this proposal and you know potentially  commenting on it or moving forward...  REYAUN: Yeah, I want to make it plain  and simple.

Indigenous communities   have the constitutional right to protect their  homelands and have the right to protect their   ancestors from being desecrated by oil and gas  companies.

And they have the right to be able   to stop and say our health is more important right  now.

And we need to prioritize that and be able   to have access to critical care in our community  and orphaned wells deserve to be cleaned up and   ensure that the voices of the community are taken  into account.

And the health and safety as well.

LAURA: Well, Reyaun, thanks for joining me today.

I hope that we get to speak again and hopefully   in person next time.

REYAUN: thank you.