>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Jeff: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF THE PRESS.

AS WE DID LAST YEAR OVER 4th OF JULY WEEK, WE DIVE INTO WHAT'S GONE WRONG AND WHAT COULD FIX IT IN NEW MEXICO'S NEWS LANDSCAPE.

>> Connor: CAN WE SAVE THIS?

CAN WE MAKE A GO OF IT?

>> Davis: I WANT TO SEE MORE PEOPLE PARTICIPATE IN DEMOCRACY.

>> Jeff: AND, THE DANGEROUS SECRETS OF NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

ONE REPORTER TELLS US HOW SHE UNMASKED THE ILLEGAL WORK OF SCIENTISTS AND DOCTORS IN LOS ALAMOS FROM MORE THAN 30 YEARS AGO.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I'M EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR.

AS NEW MEXICANS JOIN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY CELEBRATING INDEPENDENCE DAY THIS WEEK, WE WANTED TO MARK THE HOLIDAY BY CHECKING THE PULSE OF THE FOURTH ESTATE.

THIS IS OUR SECOND ASSESSMENT OF NEW MEXICO'S MEDIA ECOSYSTEM.

WE STARTED THIS TRADITION LAST 4th OF JULY, AND QUITE A BIT HAS CHANGED.

IN 2023, WE HIGHLIGHTED THE BYLINES AND EDITORIAL STAFF OF LOCAL PUBLICATIONS.

THIS YEAR, WE'RE EXAMINE WHO OWNS WHAT, IDEAS TO GREEN UP SO-CALLED NEWS DESERTS, AND WHAT THESE AND OTHER TRENDS MEAN FOR THE FUTURE OF THE NEWS BUSINESS.

AT A TIME WHEN MORE THAN TWO PUBLICATIONS CLOSE EVERY WEEK ACROSS THE UNITED STATES, TWO NEW MEXICO MEDIA COMPANIES HAVE GROWN.

CTRL+P PUBLISHING HAS EXPANDED ITS REACH BY CREATING CITY DESK ABQ.

AND EL RITO MEDIA GROUP PURCHASED THREE LOCAL NEW MEXICO NEWSPAPERS FROM GANNETT, BRINGING THE COMPANY'S TOTAL TO FIVE.

IN THE SECOND HALF OF OUR PROGRAM, I'LL SPEAK WITH LEADERS AT BOTH COMPANIES ABOUT HOW THEY'RE WORKING TO GROW TRUST AMONG READERS DESPITE MISGIVINGS ABOUT THE POLITICS BEHIND CTRL+P AND EL RITO.

BUT THAT'S NOT OUR ONLY FOCUS TONIGHT.

LATER IN THE SHOW, WE'LL TAKE A STEP AWAY FROM THE BROADER STATE OF OUR MEDIA LANDSCAPE TO SPEAK WITH AN INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER SPECIFICALLY ABOUT HER WORK COVERING NEW MEXICO'S NUCLEAR LEGACY AND ITS FUTURE.

OUR LAND'S LAURA PASKUS SITS WITH ALICIA INEZ GUZMAN OF SEARCHLIGHT NEW MEXICO TO DISCUSS HER NATIONAL AWARD-WINNING STORY THAT UNCOVERED DECADES-OLD SECRETS AT LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABORATORY.

THAT'S IN LESS THAN 20 MINUTES.

BUT WE'LL BEGIN WITH THE LENS A BIT WIDER.

IN THIS FIRST SEGMENT WE HEAR FROM THREE PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING TO FUND LOCAL NEWS ORGANIZATIONS.

CORRESPONDENT GWYNETH DOLAND, WHO HAPPENS TO BE CENTRAL IN THESE EFFORTS THROUGH HER ROLE AS A UNM PROFESSOR JOURNALISM PRACTICE, SPOKE WITH RASHAD MAHMOOD OF NEW MEXICO LOCAL NEWS FUND, CHRISTINA SHIH FROM PRESS FORWARD, AND RETIRED UNM PROFESSOR MICHAEL MARCOTTE.

THEY TALKED ABOUT THE SPECIFIC CHALLENGES OF GETTING NEWS TO ALL NEW MEXICANS, THE RISE OF NONPROFIT MEDIA, AND WHAT'S GONE WRONG TO CREATE VAST NEWS DESERTS, AND WHAT'S BEING DONE TO PRIORITIZE JOURNALISM AS A PUBLIC GOOD INSTEAD OF A COMMODITY.

>> Gwyneth: MY GUESTS TODAY ARE CHRISTINA SHIH, ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR OF PRESS FORWARD, RASHAD MAHMOOD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE NEW MEXICO LOCAL NEWS FUND, AND MICHAEL MARCOTTE IS A NEWS CONSULTANT WHO WORKS WITH NPR AND PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS AROUND THE COUNTRY.

HE'S ALSO A RECENTLY RETIRED PROFESSOR OF JOURNALISM HERE AT UNM.

THANK YOU, ALL THREE, FOR BEING WITH US.

CHRISTINA, I'D LIKE TO START WITH YOU.

WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO SPEND HALF A BILLION DOLLARS ON NEWS?

AND WHY DID THEY THINK IT'S SUCH A BIG PRIORITY?

>> Shih: SO PRESS FORWARD IS A NATIONAL MOVEMENT TO REIMAGINE LOCAL NEWS.

AND IT WAS STARTED BY NATIONAL FUNDERS LIKE THE MACARTHUR FOUNDATION AND KNIGHT FOUNDATION.

AND NOW WE HAVE 62 FUNDERS IN OUR COALITION.

WE'RE REALLY THINKING ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF LOCAL NEWS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

ABOUT HALF OF THESE FUNDERS ARE LOCAL COMMUNITY FOUNDATIONS AND LOCAL FOUNDATIONS.

AND I THINK ALL OF US, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE CRISIS OF LOCAL NEWS, WE SEE A SENSE OF URGENCY.

THERE IS -- THERE ARE OVER 3 MILLION PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHO DO NOT HAVE A SINGLE ACCESS TO A SINGLE SOURCE OF LOCAL NEWS.

THEY LIVE IN WHAT WE CALL NEWS DESERTS.

AND THERE ARE PLACES ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHERE LOCAL NEWSPAPERS ARE CLOSING AT RATE OF TWO PER WEEK.

AND IN PLACES WHERE WE DO HAVE THESE NEWSPAPERS, WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS THAT MANY ARE STRUGGLING TO SURVIVE.

MANY ARE FACING LAYOFFS.

THEY'RE TRYING TO REPORT AND SERVE THE PUBLIC ON VERY SHOESTRING BUDGETS.

SO WHAT WE HAVE IS THIS CRISIS AND THE IMPACT ON OUR CIVIC HEALTH IS STAGGERING.

WHEN WE FIND A COMMUNITY DOES NOT HAVE ACCESS TO A LOCAL NEWS ORGANIZATION, CIVIC ENGAGEMENT AND VOTING RATES DROP.

THERE'S ALSO A COST THAT'S PASSED DOWN TO RESIDENTS.

CITIES WITHOUT LOCAL NEWS INFORMATION SEE AN INCREASE IN GOVERNMENT COST.

AND THEN WE THINK ABOUT THE SOCIAL BONDS THAT CONNECT OUR COMMUNITIES TOGETHER.

ESPECIALLY AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, WE BECOME EVEN MORE DIVIDED IN OUR LIVES AND IN OUR OPINIONS.

SO PRESS FORWARD IS REALLY A NATIONAL MOVEMENT, A NATIONAL CONVERSATION TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE.

AND BEGIN HELPING MANY FUNDERS FROM FOUNDATIONS TO INDIVIDUALS TO SEE THAT WE ALL HAVE A PART TO PLAY IN REBUILDING LOCAL NEWS.

>> Gwyneth: YEAH, AND CHRISTINA, WHAT YOU JUST SAID ABOUT NEWS DESERTS I THINK IS ESPECIALLY TRUE HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

MIKE MARCOTTE, YOU'VE BEEN LOOKING AT THE ECOSYSTEM HERE IN NEW MEXICO FOR A WHILE.

WHAT IS THIS SITUATION THAT CHRISTINA DESCRIBED LOOK LIKE ON THE GROUND HERE?

>> Marcotte: WELL, NEW MEXICO IS JUST A MICROCOSM OF THE COUNTRY, WE'RE NOT IMMUNE TO THE ECONOMIC AND TECHNOLOGICAL FORCES THAT ARE TOTALLY DISRUPTING LOCAL JOURNALISM.

YOU KNOW, WE CAN POINT TO THE LOCALLY, FAMILY-OWNED ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL, THE FAMILY-OWNED SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN, AND COUNT OUR LUCKY STARS AT LEAST WE HAVE THAT LEVEL OF INVESTMENT.

BUT THESE ARE AD-SUPPORTED FOR-PROFIT ENTERPRISES.

CLEARLY SHAVING COSTS.

WE MEASURE OUR LOCAL NEWS FORCE IN THE HUNDREDS NOT THE THOUSANDS.

AND WE'RE GOING TO PROCEED WITH SOME MAPPING PROJECTS TO GET A BETTER HANDLE ON THAT.

BUT WE'RE SMALL TO BEGIN WITH, AND WE'RE GETTING SMALLER.

AND YOU KNOW, WE'RE TRYING TO SAVE WHAT WE HAVE AND WITH FRIENDS LIKE RASHAD AND CHRISTINA, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TRYING TO REINVENT THE LOCAL NEWS ECOSYSTEM.

BUT IT'S A HEAVY LEFT.

>> Gwyneth: YEAH, AND RASHAD AT THE NEW MEXICO LOCAL NEWS FUND YOU'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR SIX YEARS.

IN FACT, WE SHOULD SAY THAT ONE OF YOUR OLDEST PROJECTS IS THE LOCAL NEWS FELLOWSHIP AND INTERNSHIP PROGRAM THAT MIKE AND I HAVE WORKED ON AND IN FACT WE HAVE ONE OF THESE INTERNS WORKING WITH US HERE IN THE STUDIO TODAY.

>> Mahmood: THAT'S GREAT.

>> Gwyneth: BIG PICTURE, WHAT KIND OF IMPACT ARE YOU HOPING THAT PRESS FORWARD'S BIG, YOU KNOW, PRESENCE ON THE SCENE IS GOING TO HAVE ON LOCAL NEWS IN NEW MEXICO?

>> Mahmood: THANK YOU SO MUCH, GWYNETH.

SO, WE'VE BEEN WORKING, AS YOU SAID, FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS TO SUPPORT THE LOCAL NEWS ECOSYSTEM HERE.

WE HAVE PROGRAMS LIKE THE FELLOWSHIP PROGRAM, WE HAVE AN ACCELERATOR PROGRAM TO HELP EXISTING NEWS OUTLETS.

WE RAN AN INCUBATOR PROGRAM LAST YEAR.

BUT THE BIGGEST STRENGTH I THINK OF PRESS FORWARD IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S FINANCIAL SUPPORT.

WE'RE SUPER GRATEFUL.

WE RECEIVED -- PRESS FORWARD NEW MEXICO RECEIVED $250,000 EARLIER THIS YEAR FROM PRESS FORWARD NATIONAL.

BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT'S ABOUT SORT OF WHAT CHRISTINA TALKED ABOUT, ABOUT GETTING THAT MESSAGE OUT THERE AND RAISING AWARENESS THAT THIS IS AN IMPORTANT CHALLENGE THAT AFFECTS ALL OF US.

YOU KNOW, WHETHER YOU LIVE IN A NEWS DESERT OR NOT, IT SHOULD BE SOMETHING THAT YOU CARE ABOUT AND THAT EVERYONE CONSIDERS SUPPORTING.

YOU KNOW, WITH THE PRESS FORWARD FUNDS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO IS SORT OF REALLY HELP SORT OF CREATE A BASELINE OF KNOWLEDGE SO THAT OUR WORK IN THE NEXT FOUR OR FIVE YEARS CAN BE REALLY INFORMED BY DATA AND WE CAN MEASURE THE PROGRESS THAT WE MAKE.

WE'RE GOING TO LAUNCH MAPPING PROJECT THAT MIKE ALLUDED TO THAT'S GOING TO HELP REALLY DIVE INTO HOW DOES EACH COMMUNITY IN NEW MEXICO GET ACCESS TO LOCAL NEWS.

IT'S ALSO GOING TO SUPPORT -- WE'RE LIKELY GOING TO DO SOME POLLING TO FIGURE OUT IN MORE DETAIL ABOUT NEW MEXICAN'S ATTITUDES TOWARD LOCAL NEWS, HOW THEY GET IT, DO THEY TRUST IT.

WHO ARE THE TRUSTED SOURCES OF LOCAL NEWS IN DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES, ET CETERA.

SO, IT'S ALSO ALLOWED US TO BRING A LOT OF COMMUNITY FOUNDATIONS AS PARTNERS.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN IN TALKS WITH MANY COMMUNITY FOUNDATIONS IN NEW MEXICO FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS AND HAVING THIS NATIONAL SUPPORT FROM PRESS FORWARD REALLY HELPED US MAKE THE CASE FOR THEM TO FINALLY GET ON BOARD AND OFFICIALLY JOIN US AS PART OF PRESS FORWARD NEW MEXICO.

>> Gwyneth: AND WE HEARD FROM CHRISTINA WHY COMMUNITY FOUNDATIONS ARE INVESTED IN THIS WORK BECAUSE IT AFFECTS ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT THEY'RE WORKING ON.

CHRISTINA, OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF THE CHANGE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT'S HAPPENED IN THE NEWS INDUSTRY, YOU KNOW, WE'VE LOST HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF JOBS IN THE INDUSTRY.

WE'RE LOSING PAPERS, AS YOU SAID.

THEY'RE DROPPING LIKE FLIES.

LOT OF THIS CHANGE HAS BEEN DUE TO FORCES THAT ARE KIND OF BEYOND OUR CONTROL.

DIGITAL DISRUPTION, THE INTERNET REALLY KIND OF CRASHED THE SYSTEM OF SELLING NEWSPAPERS AND BIG ADS IN THEM.

ALSO IT HAS TO BE SAID THAT SOME -- MANY NEWS ORGANIZATIONS FAILED TO RECOGNIZE THIS AND ADAPT AND CHANGE QUICKLY ENOUGH.

BUT BEFORE JOINING PRESS FORWARD YOU WERE WORKING AT ORGANIZATIONS THAT TRIED TO HELP NEWS MAKE MONEY.

WORKING ON THE REVENUE SIDE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT COULD BE DONE.

WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM THAT EXPERIENCE?

WHAT'S WORKING?

>> Shih: YES.

SO I WORKED IN LOCAL NEWS FOR ABOUT TEN YEARS.

FROM HOMETOWN NEWS ORGANIZATION IN SAN DIEGO UP TO THE NATIONAL LEVEL.

AND SEEING OUR FIELD AND PEERS TRYING TO LEARN FROM ONE ANOTHER FIGURE OUT HOW TO ADAPT AND PIVOT THE BUSINESS MODEL.

WE HAVE SEEN THE RISE IN NONPROFIT NEWS.

WE'VE SEEN THE RISE IN DIGITAL START-UPS.

WE'VE ALSO SEEN THE RISE OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE PUTTING THEIR COMMUNITIES FIRST.

AND EXPERIMENTING WITH THINGS LIKE DONATIONS AND MEMBERSHIP MODELS.

WE'VE ALSO SEEN IMPORTANT INFRASTRUCTURE ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE NEW MEXICO LOCAL NEWS FUND THAT ARE SERVING THE NEWS ORGANIZATIONS ACROSS THE STATE WITH HELPING THEM WITH TALENT AND SKILLS AND EXPERIMENTATION AND EVEN SOME OF THE TOOLS THAT THEY NEED TO BE ABLE TO OPERATE, SO THEY CAN BE ON THE FRONT LINES OF REPORTING AND SERVICE TO THEIR COMMUNITIES.

SO AS THE FIELD HAS BEEN EXPERIMENTING AND INNOVATING FOR THE LAST 10-15 YEARS, WE HAVE A CHANCE TO BUILD OFF OF THAT AND BUILD OFF OF THAT MOMENTUM AND GET THE PHILANTHROPIC SIDE ORGANIZED, COORDINATED TO BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY THE SUCCESSES, IDENTIFY THE MODELS THAT ARE WORKING, SUPPORT THEM AND EVEN SCALE THEM ACROSS THE COUNTRY TOO.

>> Gwyneth: CAN YOU GIVE ME JUST ONE OR TWO EXAMPLES OF THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING OUTSIDE OF NEW MEXICO THAT MAYBE WE HAVEN'T HEARD OF, WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT, BUT THAT ARE GLIMMERS OF HOPE?

>> Shih: YEAH, EVEN IN SOME OF THE NEIGHBOR STATES WE HAVE SEEN EMERGING MODELS LIKE SMS TEXT MESSAGING.

THIS IS A CHANCE FOR US TO LOOSEN THE DEFINITIONS OF WHAT WE MIGHT THINK A NEWSPAPER MIGHT LOOK LIKE AND THINK ABOUT HOW SHOULD WE RECEIVE NEWS AND INFORMATION IN A WAY THAT MAKES SENSE FOR THE LANGUAGES, THE CULTURE THAT WE'RE IN, OR EVEN OUR DAILY HABITS AND ROUTINES.

WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF INTERESTING EMERGING NEWS ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE USING WHATSAPP, SMS TEXT MESSAGING, AND HAVING THIS CLOSE ONE-TO-ONE RELATIONSHIP WITH THEIR AUDIENCE.

WHERE THEY'RE GETTING INFORMATION ABOUT HOUSING, PUBLIC HEALTH, EVEN WHERE TO GO TO EVEN ACCESS INFORMATION ABOUT BILLS AND UTILITIES.

THIS IS EVERYDAY INFORMATION THAT WE ALL NEED TO BE ABLE TO MAKE DECISIONS IN OUR DAY-TO-DAY LIVES THAT ARE JUST BEING DELIVERED RIGHT TO OUR PHONES.

SO, WE'RE SEEING THAT IN ARIZONA.

WE'RE SEEING THAT IN DETROIT WITH OUTLIER, WE'RE SEEING THAT IN NEW YORK WITH DOCUMENTED.

WE'RE SEEING THIS EXPERIMENTATION POP UP IN DIFFERENT PLACES.

>> Gwyneth: AND RASHAD, LET ME COME BACK.

LET ME GO TO YOU, MIKE.

YOU'VE BEEN CONSULTING WITH NEWS ORGANIZATIONS LIKE NPR BUT ALSO, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC MEDIA ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE CHALLENGES -- WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CHALLENGES YOU SEE NPR HAVING AND THE CHALLENGES IN PLACES LIKE DEMING, LAS CRUCES, FARMINGTON?

YOU KNOW, PLACES WHERE GANNETT, THE NATION'S LARGEST NEWSPAPER CHAIN, USED TO BE A DOMINANT FORCE AND HAS NOW JUST SHED THESE NEWSPAPERS.

SOME OF THEM CLOSED, SOME FLOUNDERING, SOME YOU KNOW, NOT.

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE THERE?

>> Marcotte: YEAH, INTERESTING.

SOME SIMILARITIES, AND SOME DIFFERENCES FOR SURE.

ONE THING YOU MIGHT BE COMPARING FOR-PROFIT NEWSROOMS TO NONPROFIT NEWSROOMS.

HONESTLY, THAT'S NOT A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE ANYMORE BECAUSE BOTH SECTORS ARE SUFFERING LOSSES.

LOSSES OF CORPORATE DOLLARS, WHETHER IT'S ADVERTISING OR UNDERWRITING, AND A DROP IN AUDIENCE, ESPECIALLY.

BECAUSE OF THE PLETHORA OF DIGITAL SOURCES THAT ARE NOT LOCAL.

AND THEN HAVING SAID THAT, I WOULD SAY I THINK THE DRIFT TOWARD NONPROFIT NEWSROOMS IS REALLY NOTABLE AND PROMISING.

BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT HERE IS NOT NEWS AS COMMODITY, BUT NEWS AS PUBLIC SERVICE.

PUBLIC INTEREST, INFORMATION THAT IS ESSENTIAL.

AND I SAY NONPROFITS, YOU KNOW, ARE IMPORTANT HERE BECAUSE THEY PRIORITIZE THE SERVICE ASPECT OF THEIR NEWS.

WHEREAS, FOR-PROFITS YOU KNOW THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE A DOLLAR.

GOD BLESS THEM.

AND ARE NOT ALWAYS PRIORITIZING PUBLIC INTEREST JOURNALISM.

GANNETT'S A GREAT CASE POINT THERE.

THEY'RE NOT MAKING DOLLARS, SO THEY ARE DOWNSIZING, DOWNSIZING AND NOW SHEDDING NEWSPAPERS, AS WE KNOW.

>> Gwyneth: CHRISTINA, WE HAVE HERE AN EQUITY PROBLEM.

LESS THAN 20% OF PEOPLE WHO MAKE LESS THAN $50,000 A YEAR PAY FOR NEWS.

BUT NEARLY HALF OF THE WEALTHY DO.

AND YOU KNOW, KIND OF THE MODEL MIKE WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT IS YOU KNOW WE THINK ABOUT THE WASHINGTON POST, THE NEW YORK TIMES, CBS, NBC, THE BIGGEST MEDIA ORGANIZATIONS IN THIS COUNTRY ARE FOR-PROFIT.

AND BIG CITIES, WEALTHY AREAS, THEY HAVE MORE NEWS.

WE'RE SEEING THIS, YOU KNOW, PLACES IN THE COUNTRY WHERE THERE'S LESS MONEY HAVE LESS NEWS OR NO NEWS, RIGHT?

SO WHAT CAN PRESS FORWARD DO TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE WITH LESS MONEY, REGIONS OF THE COUNTRY WITH LESS MONEY, STILL GET THE NEWS THAT'S IMPORTANT TO THEM?

WHAT'S PRESS FORWARD DOING IN TERMS OF EQUITY.

>> Shih: YES.

SO, FIRST PRESS FORWARD IS AGAIN GOING BACK TO THIS IDEA OF THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION AND NATIONAL MOVEMENT.

WE ARE GALVANIZING A GROUP OF FUNDERS AND INDIVIDUALS AND PHILANTHROPISTS WHO TRULY BELIEVE LOCAL NEWS IS A PUBLIC GOOD.

AND WE NEED TO PAY FOR IT LIKE WE PAY FOR OUR LIBRARIES, OUR ARTS, AND OUR CULTURAL INSTITUTIONS AND OUR HOSPITALS.

IT IS A TENANT OF THE CIVIC FABRIC THAT UPHOLDS OUR COMMUNITY.

NEWS AND INFORMATION BINDS US ALL TOGETHER.

THAT BEING SAID, THERE ARE ALSO A LOT OF EXPERIMENTATIONS AROUND PUBLIC POLICY THAT ARE SEEING THIS AS -- THERE ARE POLICIES THAT ARE ENABLING THE SUPPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURE OF LOCAL NEWS TO ALLOW FOR PEOPLE IN ALL COMMUNITIES, WHETHER THEY CAN PAY FOR IT, WHETHER THEY HAVE ACCESS TO IT INTERNET AND BROADBAND, WHETHER THEY LIVE IN RURAL COMMUNITIES, TO STILL HAVE ACCESS TO THAT NEWS AND INFORMATION.

WE'RE SEEING THIS IN DIFFERENT STATES.

WE'RE SEEING IT INVESTING IN TALENT PIPELINES SO PEOPLE CAN ALSO MAKE A LIVING GOING INTO THIS FIELD.

IT IS REALLY AN ALL-OF-THE-ABOVE SOLUTION AND PRESS FORWARD IS REALLY SHIFTING THE CONVERSATION AND SHIFTING THE CULTURE AND THE LONG-TERM VIEWS AROUND HOW WE AS A PUBLIC SHOULD BE SUPPORTING JOURNALISM AND WHAT OUR VARIOUS ROLES ARE IN THIS COLLECTIVE MISSION.

>> Gwyneth: AND RASHAD, THERE'S A LOT THAT'S FAMILIAR TO US IN WHAT CHRISTINA JUST SAID, RIGHT?

THERE'S A LOT WE RECOGNIZE HERE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK IS REALLY INTERESTING ABOUT ESPECIALLY THE NONPROFIT SECTOR HERE IS THAT'S WHERE WE'VE SEEN GROWTH, RIGHT?

WE'VE SEEN SOURCE NEW MEXICO, SEARCHLIGHT NEW MEXICO, NEW MEXICO IN DEPTH, AND NOW ALBUQUERQUE CITY DESK, A LITTLE BIT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK NEW MEXICO IS DOING THAT HAS A LOT OF POTENTIAL TO GROW?

>> Mahmood: SURE, I THINK NEW MEXICO HAS A FEW STRENGTHS AS A LOCAL NEWS ECOSYSTEM THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT MAY NOT BE OBVIOUS.

ONE IS THAT IN GENERAL PEOPLE IN THE NEWS BUSINESS ARE JUST INCREDIBLY SUPPORTIVE OF EACH OTHER, WHICH YOU WOULD THINK WOULD BE COMMON EVERYWHERE.

BUT I'VE BEEN ON A FEW INTERESTING CALLS WITH OTHER PLACES WHERE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE JUST VERY MUCH OUT FOR THEMSELVES.

AND WE HAVE A VERY COLLABORATIVE MINDSET HERE.

EVERYONE WORKING REALLY WELL TOGETHER, WANTS TO SEE EVERYONE ELSE SUCCEED.

WHICH IS, I THINK, SO IMPORTANT.

ANOTHER THING IS THE OWNERSHIP ISSUE THAT WE HINTED AT EARLIER.

WE'RE SUPER FORTUNATE THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF LOCAL NEWS SOURCES IN NEW MEXICO NOW ARE LOCALLY OWNED OR PART OF VERY SMALL CHAINS.

AND SO, THANKS TO GANNETT'S RECENT SALE OF FOUR OF ITS NEW MEXICO NEWSPAPERS.

THAT'S AN INCREDIBLE OPPORTUNITY FOR REINVESTMENT AND SUPPORT.

AND IT MAKES POLICY EVEN EASIER, I THINK, RIGHT?

ONE THING THAT CHRISTINA HINTED AT WAS WE'VE BEEN REALLY FORTUNATE TO RECEIVE SOME STATE SUPPORT FOR OUR LOCAL NEWS FELLOWSHIP PROGRAM RAN OUT OF UNM.

SENATOR WIRTH PUT SOME MONEY IN THE BUDGET LAST YEAR AND THEN THIS YEAR SENATOR STEINBORN SUPPORTED IT.

AND WE'RE IN TALKS WITH -- TO HOPEFULLY EVEN EXPAND THAT SUPPORT GOING FORWARD.

BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, I THINK IT'S JUST SO MUCH EASIER TO SUPPORT LOCAL NEWS WHEN YOU KNOW IT'S REALLY SOMEONE IN YOUR COMMUNITY DOING THE WORK.

THE MONEY, WHEN YOU SUPPORT AN ORGANIZATION EITHER NONPROFIT OR FOR-PROFIT, IS STAYING IN NEW MEXICO.

YEAH, I'M JUST SORT OF CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC, I WOULD SAY.

THE OTHER STRENGTH IS WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF NEW START-UPS ACTUALLY JUST IN RECENT YEARS HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

WHICH YOU MIGHT NOT KNOW ABOUT BECAUSE THEY'RE VERY LOCAL COMMUNITY FOCUSED.

THERE'S DOWNTOWN ALBUQUERQUE NEWS, HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

THERE'S BOOMTOWN IN LOS ALAMOS, WHICH JUST GOT STARTED.

THE CLOUDCROFT READER JUST GOT STARTED IN CLOUDCROFT.

THEY'VE BEEN DOING AMAZING FIRE COVERAGE.

OBVIOUSLY CITY DESK, WHICH WE'VE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE.

SO THERE ARE PEOPLE SORT OF TAKING UP THIS MANTLE LOOKING AROUND AT THEIR COMMUNITIES AND SAYING, HEY, WHAT CAN I DO TO MAKE SURE THIS CRITICAL NEED IS MET.

IF YOU'RE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE LISTENING RIGHT NOW, FEEL FREE TO GET IN TOUCH.

I'D LOVE TO TALK TO YOU.

WE'D LOVE TO SUPPORT MORE LOCAL NEWS OUTLETS.

YEAH, I THINK WE HAVE A LOT OF STRENGTHS.

>> Gwyneth: LET ME ASK YOU, CHRISTINA, WE HAVE A FEW SECONDS LEFT HERE.

WHAT ARE YOU ASKING OF THE PUBLIC?

WHAT DOES OUR AUDIENCE -- WHAT IS THEIR ROLE?

WHAT CAN THEY DO?

>> Shih: ONE, I THINK IF YOU CAN SUPPORT LOCAL NEWS, BE ABLE TO JUST -- YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE ABLE TO MAKE A DONATION OR EVEN GET A SUBSCRIPTION, THAT DEFINITELY SUPPORT LOCAL NEWS.

ENGAGE WITH OUR LOCAL NEWS ORGANIZATION.

AND CONTINUE SPREADING THE WORD THAT THIS IS ESSENTIAL.

WE DO JUST NEED NEWS AND INFORMATION TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO FOR THE WEEKEND, HOW TO MAKE DECISIONS, AND YOU KNOW UPCOMING ELECTIONS.

SO, THIS IS INFORMATION THAT WE ALL NEED.

IF WE'RE ABLE TO SHIFT THE NATIONAL AND PUBLIC VIEW AROUND HOW SEARCH LOCAL NEWS IS TO OUR COMMUNITIES, I THINK WE CAN SEE THE LONG-TERM IMPACT OF THAT FOR YEARS TO COME.

>> Gwyneth: CHRISTINA, RASHAD, AND MIKE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US TODAY.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> Mahmood: THANK YOU SO MUCH, GWYNETH.

>> Shih: THANK YOU.

>> Davis: I WANT TO SEE MORE PEOPLE PARTICIPATE IN DEMOCRACY.

AND I REALLY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A ROMANTIC FOR THE LOCAL SMALL-TOWN STORIES.

I GREW UP IN A SMALL TOWN.

WHEN THOSE PAPERS ARE GONE, THESE TOWNS THEY LOSE THEIR IDENTITY, THEY LOSE THEIR SENSE OF CONNECTION BECAUSE THERE'S TO TELL EVERYBODY WHAT BINDS US TOGETHER ANYMORE.

>> Jeff: THAT INTERVIEW WITH PAT DAVIS AND RICH CONNOR WILL AIR IN LESS THAN 20 MINUTES.

AT SEARCHLIGHT NEW MEXICO INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER ALICIA INEZ GUZMAN COVERS NEW MEXICO'S NUCLEAR LEGACY AND FUTURE.

AND THE NEW COLD WAR.

IN AN IN-DEPTH CONVERSATION WITH OUR LAND'S SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS, GUZMAN TALKS ABOUT HER AWARD-WINNING STORY BURIED SECRETS, POISONED BODIES.

THE ILLEGAL AUTOPSIES SCIENTISTS AT LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABORATORY, AND DOCTORS AT THE LAS ALAMOS MEDICAL CENTER PERFORMED ON PEOPLE FOR OVER 35 YEARS.

AND THE UNIQUE CHALLENGES OF BEING A REPORTER ON THE 21st CENTURY ATOMIC BEAT.

>> Laura: WELCOME, ALICIA.

>> Guzman: THANK YOU.

>> Laura: THANKS FOR BEING HERE, AND CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR RECENT NATIONAL AWARD.

>> Guzman: THANK YOU.

>> Laura: I'M SURE THAT MOST PEOPLE IN OUR AUDIENCE ARE FAMILIAR WITH YOUR WORK.

BUT WOULD YOU JUST DESCRIBE YOUR BEAT FOR US?

>> Guzman: SURE.

FOR THE LAST YEAR AT SEARCHLIGHT NEW MEXICO, I'VE BEEN COVERING NUCLEAR ISSUES.

FOR ME, WHAT THAT INCLUDES IS EVERYTHING FROM URANIUM MINING TO THE PRODUCTION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS, TO THE STORAGE OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS, TO THE STORAGE OF WASTE FROM THE PRODUCTION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

SO, IT'S REALLY THE FULL CYCLE CRADLE TO GRAVE.

>> Laura: YEAH, I'M SUCH A HUGE FAN OF YOUR WORK AND WHAT YOU DO.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

I'M SUPER EXCITED THAT YOU'RE HERE TODAY.

>> Guzman: THANK YOU.

>> Laura: I'D LIKE TO TALK BRIEFLY ABOUT BURIED SECRETS, POISONED BODIES WHICH PUBLISHED IN DECEMBER, IS THE STORY YOU WON THE MOLLY AWARD FOR.

WHAT STARTED YOU ON THE PATH TO REPORTING THAT PARTICULAR STORY?

>> Guzman: THAT STORY, I MEAN THAT STORY REALLY DROVE ME CRAZY.

AND THE REASON WHY WAS BECAUSE I HEARD FROM A SOURCE THAT THERE WAS A WOMAN FROM TRUCHAS, WHERE I'M FROM, WHERE I'M BORN AND RAISED, THAT HAD THE MOST PLUTONIUM IN HER BODY FROM THE TRINITY DETONATION IN 1945.

AND OF COURSE WHEN I HEARD THAT I THOUGHT IF THAT PERSON IS FROM TRUCHAS, I MUST KNOW THEM OR I MUST KNOW THEIR FAMILY, OR WE'RE RELATED, OR WE'RE NEIGHBORS.

THERE'S SO FEW PEOPLE IN TRUCHAS.

AND SO IT REALLY PUT ME ON THIS PATH TO SEARCH FOR HER, AND TO ULTIMATELY FIND HER AND HER FAMILY AND LO AND BEHOLD, YES, I DID KNOW HER FAMILY.

AND WE WERE NEIGHBORS.

I'VE KNOWN THEM SINCE I WAS A CHILD.

SO IT WAS JUST A REALLY OFF-HAND TIP FROM A SOURCE IN AN AIRPLANE COMING BACK FROM D.C., AND THEN I HEARD IT AGAIN THAT SAME TIP FROM A DIFFERENT SOURCE DOWN BY THE TRINITY SITE BY WHITE SANDS.

AND SO I THOUGHT, OKAY, WELL I'VE HEARD IT TWICE, AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT PUT ME ON THIS PATH AND I THINK IT TOOK ME SIX MONTHS ULTIMATELY TO FIGURE OUT WHO SHE WAS AND WHAT HER STORY WAS.

AND HOW HER STORY WAS.

AND HOW HER STORY HAD REALLY BEEN PAPERED OVER, I THINK, IN MANY WAYS.

>> Laura: SO THAT STORY IS ALSO ABOUT ILLEGAL AUTOPSIES.

WHO PERFORMED THEM ON WHO AND WHY?

>> Guzman: BASICALLY, THE REASON THAT WE KNEW SHE HAD PLUTONIUM IN HER BODY BECAUSE SHE HAD BEEN ONE OF ABOUT 2,000 PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN ILLEGALLY AUTOPSIED AS PART OF A STUDY CALLED THE HUMAN TISSUE ANALYSIS PROGRAM.

AND THERE WERE SEVERAL HUNDRED PEOPLE HERE IN NEW MEXICO WHO WERE SUBJECT TO THAT STUDY, BUT IT REALLY BEGAN IN THE LATE 1950s WHEN SCIENTISTS AT LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABORATORY WERE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW PLUTONIUM IMPACTED THE BODY.

AND SO IN LOS ALAMOS, A PERSON DIED FROM PLUTONIUM EXPOSURE.

EXTREME PLUTONIUM EXPOSURE, AND HE WAS THE FIRST IN THIS STUDY.

SO THEY AUTOPSIED HIS BODY WITHOUT THE INFORMED CONSENT FROM NEXT OF KIN.

AND THAT WAS IN 1959.

AND THAT BEGAN THIS PROGRAM IN CONJUNCTION BETWEEN LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABORATORY AND LOS ALAMOS MEDICAL CENTER.

SO THEY KIND OF -- THE CHIEF OF STAFF WOULD COLLABORATE WITH LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABORATORY.

AND IF SOMEBODY DIED AT THE MEDICAL CENTER, AND THERE COULD BE SOME NEED FOR AN AUTOPSY, THEN THEY WOULD PERFORM IT AND BASICALLY LOOK AT AND TAKE OUT SEVERAL DIFFERENT ORGANS.

INCLUDING LIVER, LUNGS, SPLEEN.

IN SOME CASES VERTEBRAE AND BONE.

IN MEN, GONADS.

SO IT WAS A HORRIFIC, HORRIFIC STUDY.

IT TOOK PLACE FOR ABOUT 35 YEARS.

AND IT WAS LITIGATED, SO WE DO KNOW THAT AT LEAST THERE WAS SOME SMALL MEASURE OF JUSTICE.

I SAY THAT IN A WAY THAT I KNOW IT'S REALLY NOT JUSTICE AT ALL.

BUT IT WAS SETTLED BACK IN 2010 AFTER MORE THAN TEN YEARS OF LITIGATION.

>> Laura: SO, THERE WAS THIS LAWSUIT AND SETTLEMENT.

WAS THERE ANY KIND OF APOLOGY, ADMISSION OF HOW INCREDIBLY WRONG THAT IS?

LIKE A HEALING PROCESS, ANYTHING LIKE THAT?

>> Guzman: I DON'T THINK THAT THERE REALLY WAS A HEALING PROCESS, TO BE QUITE HONEST.

THERE WERE PROBABLY TEN PEOPLE LISTED ON THE LAWSUIT.

YOU KNOW, FROM THE STORY THAT I WROTE, WHAT I CAME TO FIND OUT THIS IS WOMAN HAD BEEN ILLEGALLY AUTOPSIED.

SHE HAD THE MOST PLUTONIUM IN HER BODY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON AUTOPSIED IN THIS STUDY WHO WAS NOT A WORKER.

AND HER FAMILY DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE LAWSUIT.

THEY WERE NEVER CONTACTED, OR IF THEY WERE, THEY SEND OUT LETTERS AND MAKE NEWSPAPER ANNOUNCEMENTS, BUT THEY NEVER GOT ANY OF THAT.

SO THEY DIDN'T KNOW UNTIL I CAME TO THEM AND SAID, HEY, I BELIEVE -- I'M 90% SURE THIS WOMAN IS YOUR GRANDMOTHER, BUT WITH YOUR HELP I'D LIKE TO PROVE IT.

THEY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

SO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE EVEN WHO DID KNOW WHAT HAPPENED THERE WAS ANY MEASURE OF RESOLUTION.

SPECIFICALLY IN THIS CASE, THERE WAS NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT IT UNTIL SIX MONTHS AGO, REALLY.

SHE DIED IN 1972.

>> Laura: AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPORTING ON THIS.

I FEEL LIKE WHEN I FIRST MOVED TO NEW MEXICO, ALMOST 30 YEARS AGO, THE MAINSTREAM NEWSPAPERS DID COVER THE LABS TO SOME EXTENT.

YOU WOULD SEE NEWS ABOUT THE LABS.

NOT SO MUCH ANYMORE.

YOU'RE BASICALLY THE ONLY REPORTER WHO COVERS LOS ALAMOS WITH CONSISTENCY AND SORT OF INVESTIGATIVE CHOPS.

>> Guzman: IT'S INTERESTING THAT YOU NOTE THAT BECAUSE LAST SUMMER THERE WAS THIS GROUP OF ATOMIC REPORTERS THAT GOT TOGETHER, AND THERE ARE VERY FEW ACROSS THE U.S. AND WE NOTED THAT IN OUR GROUP, BUT I THINK PART OF IT IS THAT ONCE THE COLD WAR ENDED, YOU KNOW, IN THE LATE '80s, AND ONCE PIT PRODUCTION LARGELY ENDED AT ROCKY FLATS IN COLORADO, I THINK THE WATCHDOGS SLOWLY DISAPPEARED INTO THE MIST.

AND NOW FAST FORWARD, WE'RE PRODUCING PLUTONIUM PITS AT LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABORATORY AT AN INDUSTRIAL SCALE IN A THAT'S NEVER BEEN DONE IN LOS ALAMOS.

YES, IT'S BEEN DONE IN ROCKY FLATS, BUT THIS IS A REAL FEAT.

SO, I THINK THAT THE QUIETUDE PERHAPS IN THE JOURNALISM COMMUNITY WAS A RESULT OF, YOU KNOW, RELATIVE QUIETUDE IN TERMS OF PIT PRODUCTION.

THEY MADE A FEW HERE AND THERE.

MAYBE 30 OVER A 30-YEAR PERIOD.

BUT NOW THE GOAL IS TO MAKE 30 IN ONE YEAR AT LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABORATORY.

SO, IT'S KIND OF NOW PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO WAKE UP THAT THE COLD WAR -- YOU KNOW THE FIRST COLD WAR ENDED, WE'RE ENTERING INTO A SECOND COLD WAR.

AND THIS ONE POTENTIALLY COULD BE MORE DANGEROUS.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT I'M STARTING TO THINK ABOUT NOW IS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE -- WE'RE BARRELLING INTO A NEW COLD WAR AND WE HAVE NOT RECKONED WITH THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE LAST ONE.

AND SO EVEN THOUGH I'M LOOKING FORWARD AND INTO THE FUTURE ABOUT WHAT POTENTIAL STORIES I COULD WRITE ABOUT PIT PRODUCTION, ET CETERA.

AND PLUTONIUM PITS, BY THE WAY, ARE THE CORES THAT DETONATE EVERY NUCLEAR WEAPON.

BUT I'M ALSO THINKING ABOUT THE PAST.

ALL THE THINGS WE HAVEN'T DEALT WITH FROM THE PAST.

INCLUDING THESE STORIES ABOUT THIS WOMAN FROM TRUCHAS.

>> Laura: ARE THERE PARTICULAR CHALLENGES THAT ARE UNIQUE TO YOUR BEAT AND WORKING WITH THE LAB?

>> Guzman: YEAH, I MEAN -- YOU KNOW, I THINK LOS ALAMOS IS A PLACE BUILT ON SECRETS AND SECRECY.

SO THERE'S THIS -- YOU KNOW LIKE IN EVERY BEAT THERE'S A FEAR OF RETALIATION.

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU TALK TO SOURCES, BUT THIS IS BEAT HAS THE ADDED LAYER THAT IF YOU WORK AT THE LAB, YOU VERY LIKELY HAVE A Q CLEARANCE WHICH IS A HIGH SECURITY FEDERAL CLEARANCE.

AND SO YOU ARE BEHOLDEN IN MANY WAYS IN A WAY THAT'S EVEN MORE CHALLENGING THAN, SAY, BEING A WHISTLEBLOWER AT A PRIVATE ENTITY, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

SO I THINK -- THERE'S THE SECRECY ASPECT.

THEN THERE'S THE ASPECT OF TRYING TO GET RECORDS FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

AND SO THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT AFFORDS US TO BE ABLE TO GET RECORDS, BUT WHEN YOU PUT IN AN FOIA FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY, YOU KNOW, I'VE HEARD PEOPLE WAIT NINE, TEN YEARS TO GET THOSE RECORDS BACK.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, I COULD BE A HUNDRED AND STILL WAITING FOR A FOIA.

SO I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER CHALLENGE.

YOU KNOW, THOSE TWO ASPECTS ARE VERY MUCH CHALLENGES, BUT THERE IS A RICH RECORD HISTORICALLY.

AND SO I ALWAYS LOOK TO WHAT THAT RECORD IS, HISTORICALLY, TO HELP ME FIGURE OUT HOW TO REPORT ON WHAT, YOU KNOW, AN ISSUE THAT MAY BE TAKING PLACE IN THE PRESENT.

SO, A LOT OF MY WORK DOES INTEGRATE PAST RECORDS THAT ARE ALREADY AVAILABLE.

I JUST REALLY HAVE TO DIG FOR THEM AND FIND THE RIGHT ARCHIVE FOR THEM.

>> Laura: YEAH.

SO SOME OF THE REPORTING THAT HAS BEEN DONE, OR THAT DOES SHOW UP IN THE MAINSTREAM NEWSPAPERS, TENDS TO FOCUS ON WHEN LIKE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ISSUES LIKE A SAFETY REPORT, OR YOU KNOW CERTAINLY THERE'S THE OCCASIONAL POLLUTION STORY, VERY RARELY LABOR ISSUES.

AND ALMOST NEVER MORAL IMPLICATIONS OF BUILDING WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.

WHY DO YOU THINK WE SKIRT THAT ISSUE?

>> Guzman: YOU KNOW, IT IS -- AND I THINK ABOUT THIS TOO, IT IS SO HARD FOR PEOPLE TO TALK ABOUT IT.

BECAUSE EVEN WITH OUR CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION, ON THE ONE HAND THEY ARE FIGHTING FOR RADIATION EXPOSURE COMPENSATION ACT FOR THE FOLKS WHO WERE THE FIRST VICTIMS OF THE TRINITY SITE DETONATION, AND FOR URANIUM MINERS POST 1971, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, THEY'RE PRO MAKING NUCLEAR WEAPONS NOW BECAUSE OF THE JOBS.

AND I THINK PEOPLE ALWAYS GET CAUGHT UP IN THE ECONOMIC BENEFITS, QUESTION OF THE WHOLE THING, AND I HEAR ALL THE TIME FOLKS TELL ME IF THE LAB WEREN'T AROUND, YOU KNOW, ESPANOLA, THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES WOULDN'T EXIST.

THEY WOULD BE LIKE TUMBLEWEEDS, TOTALLY ROLLING INTO THE HORIZON.

I THINK THE ECONOMIC ARGUMENT HOLDS A LOT OF SWAY IN ECLIPSING THE MORAL ARGUMENT IS LARGELY WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO.

AND WHEN I TALK TO SOURCES THEY'LL SAY SOMETHING LIKE YES, IT'S BEEN A REALLY GOOD JOB FOR ME, BUT MY TIO UP IN CORDOVA AND MY COUSIN OVER THERE, BOTH OF THEM GOT CANCER AND DIED.

SO PEOPLE WILL, IN THE SAME BREATH, TALK ABOUT THE GOOD JOBS AND ALSO ENVIRONMENTAL AND HEALTH HARMS.

AND THAT'S BECOME, I THINK, BAKED INTO THE CULTURE AROUND THE LAB IS THAT YOU ACCEPT THE TRADEOFFS.

AND THAT TO ME IS ALSO PART OF THIS MORAL ARGUMENT AROUND THIS ISSUE IS THAT THERE IS A TRADEOFF AND YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT.

AND THAT IT REALLY CENTERS AROUND AN ISSUE OF CONSENT.

AND THE LAB ARRIVED, YOU KNOW, THROUGH EMINENT DOMAIN.

THE COMMUNITIES SURROUNDING DID NOT CONSENT.

AND NOW EVER SINCE THERE'S BEEN THIS RETROACTIVE ATTEMPT TO GET PEOPLE TO CONSENT THROUGH GOOD JOBS, AND WHAT IT'S LEFT US WITH IS THIS NEBULOUS, MORAL MURKINESS THAT WE CAN'T QUITE -- THE PEOPLE ARE TOO AFRAID TO REALLY NAVIGATE, IN A WAY.

SO, WHEN I WRITE ABOUT IT, I AM -- I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I'M PRIVILEGED TO BE ABLE TO SAY THE THINGS THAT OTHER PEOPLE CAN'T SAY BECAUSE MAYBE SOME PEOPLE DON'T FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE THE POWER OR THE VOICE TO DO THAT.

SO, I JUST -- I'M HONORED AND HUMBLED TO DO THAT TOO.

AND SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, IT'S EVEN HARD FOR ME.

>> Laura: YEAH.

LAST YEAR, WE HAD MYRRIAH GOMEZ ON THE SHOW TO TALK ABOUT HER BOOK AND NUCLEAR COLONIALISM.

HOW DO YOU FEEL -- OR DID LOS ALAMOS SET THE STAGE FOR NEW MEXICO TO KEEP -- >> Guzman: I THINK SO.

I THINK PART OF THE ARGUMENT IS THIS KIND OF HISTORY OF EXTRACTION.

AND I THINK THAT'S BUILT INTO ALL AREAS OF COLONIALISM.

AND I THINK ABOUT LIKE THE GREAT LATIN AMERICAN JOURNALIST EDUARDO GALEANO WHO TALKED ABOUT KIND OF EXTRACTION IN LATIN AMERICA AND HOW THAT MADE, YOU KNOW, CORPORATE CONGLOMERATES WEALTHY ELSEWHERE.

AND THAT TO ME IS KIND OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, NEW MEXICO HAS BEEN LAND RICH, CASH POOR.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF OUR RESOURCES ARE TO BE EXTRACTED.

WE HAVE OIL AND GAS.

WE URANIUM.

WE HAVE LABOR.

YOU KNOW THAT IS A RESOURCE TO BE EXTRACTED AS WELL.

I THINK THAT IN THE LATE CAPITALIST MODEL THAT WE'RE IN, YES, THIS IS AN EXTENSION OF COLONIZATION BECAUSE IT MEANS THAT OUR STATE WILL CONTINUE TO BE POOR, EVEN THOUGH WE CONTINUE TO BE -- TO MAKE MONEY.

OR TO PROVIDE THE LABOR, THE RESOURCES FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO, YOU KNOW, REAP FROM THE ARMS RACE, RIGHT?

SO I THINK THAT, YES, THIS IS AN EXTENSION OF COLONIZATION.

IT IS NUCLEAR COLONIALISM.

AND IT WILL CONTINUE TO BE, YOU KNOW, THROUGHOUT THE ARMS RACE.

AND AGAIN, WE'RE IN ANOTHER ARMS RACE.

>> Laura: SO WITHOUT SCOOPING YOURSELF, WHAT CAN WE LOOK FORWARD TO READING FROM YOU IN THE COMING MONTHS OR YEAR?

>> Guzman: SO, I'M GOING TO -- YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN REALLY FOCUSED ON LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABORATORY FOR THE LAST YEAR, ON AND OFF.

I'M GOING TO START PANNING AROUND THE STATE.

YOU KNOW, HOPING TO DO SOME MORE URANIUM COVERAGE, URANIUM MINING COVERAGE BECAUSE AS YOU MAY KNOW WE'RE NOT REALLY TAKING URANIUM FROM RUSSIA ANYMORE.

THAT KIND OF PUTS PRESSURE ON US.

I'M GOING TO REALLY THINK THROUGH THAT ISSUE.

AND THEN -- I'M TRYING TO THINK.

AND I'LL PROBABLY COME BACK TO LOS ALAMOS AND DO SOME COVERAGE.

YOU KNOW, I KEEP COMING BACK TO PLUTONIUM, SO I THINK I'LL ALWAYS COME BACK AS LONG AS WE'RE PRODUCING PLUTONIUM PITS.

THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE SOMETHING TO WRITE ABOUT.

>> Laura: WELL, AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK.

THANKS FOR BEING ON THE SHOW.

>> Guzman: THANK YOU.

>> Jeff: THANKS TO LAURA, AND TO ALICIA, FOR SHARING HER WORK WITH US.

NOW BECAUSE WE CHOSE TO RUN THAT INTERVIEW THIS WEEK, IN AN EPISODE FOCUSED ON OWNERSHIP AND SHIFTING TRENDS IN NEW MEXICO'S NEWS INDUSTRY, WE WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT LAURA AND ALICIA HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FIND A TIME TO TALK FOR A YEAR.

ALICIA WAS HERE TO TALK ABOUT HER REPORTING, NOT NECESSARILY WHERE IT'S PUBLISHED, BUT FOR FORTUNE FOR US TO BE ABLE TO HIGHLIGHT SOME TRULY SINGULAR JOURNALISM IN THIS EPISODE.

BETWEEN THE TWO GROWING MEDIA COMPANIES CTRL+P PUBLISHING, AND EL RITO MEDIA GROUP, THEY OWN TEN NEWS ORGANIZATIONS AROUND THE STATE, FROM ESPANOLA TO CARLSBAD.

MOST OF THEM ARE PRINT NEWSPAPERS, WHICH CONTINUE TO STRUGGLE BOTH ON THE FINANCIAL AND READERSHIP SIDES.

SO, WE WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WHY THE COMPANIES, WHOSE OWNERS ARE WELL-KNOWN POLITICAL FIGURES, ARE RUNNING AROUND BUYING UP FISH WRAPPERS AT A TIME LOCAL NEWS IS TEETERING.

PAT DAVIS IS THE OWNER AND PUBLISHER OF CTRL+P.

HE'S ALSO THE RECENTLY-DEPARTED DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT OF THE ALBUQUERQUE CITY COUNCIL, AND HE ONCE STARTED A PROGRESSIVE ADVOCACY ORGANIZATION THAT'S STILL AROUND TODAY.

RICH CONNOR EDITS EL RITO'S FIVE NEWSPAPERS.

HE'S AN INVESTOR IN THE COMPANY TOO, AND HIS BUSINESS PARTNERS INCLUDE RYAN CANGIOLOSI, A FORMER CHAIRMAN OF THE NEW MEXICO REPUBLICAN PARTY, AND OIL BARON, HARVEY YATES.

A ONE-TIME REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEEMAN.

WE TALKED ABOUT FLAGGING TRUST IN MEDIA, WHY READERS SHOULD TRUST OVERTLY PARTISAN OWNERSHIP, AND WHETHER DAVIS'S OR CONNOR'S GOAL IS TO ACTUALLY MAKE MONEY.

HERE'S THAT CONVERSATION.

>> Jeff: PAT, RICH, THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU GUYS FOR JOINING ME ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Davis: IT'S GREAT TO BE BACK.

>> Connor: GREAT TO BE HERE.

>> Jeff: COOL.

PAT, I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU.

I THINK I ASKED YOU A VERSION OF THIS QUESTION WHEN WE DID THIS LAST YEAR.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU THAT YOU HAVE NOT BOUGHT ONE, BUT FOUR NEWSPAPERS OF ALL THINGS?

>> Davis: WELL, THEY'RE CHEAP, WHICH IS SORT OF THE PIECE.

SAYS THE FORMER POLITICIAN IN ME, I STILL HAVE THIS ROMANTIC IDEA THAT IN ESPECIALLY, IN SMALL COMMUNITIES, THERE'S A WAY TO PLUG INTO LOCAL DECISIONS.

LIKE BEING THE CITY COUNCILOR IN ALBUQUERQUE SITTING ON THE DAIS AND HAVING THE SAME SIX OR SEVEN PEOPLE COME DOWN EVERY WEEK REALLY DOES MAKE YOU FEEL DISCONNECTED FROM WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE CITY AND THERE'S SUCH A BIG OPPORTUNITY.

I WANT TO SEE MORE PEOPLE PARTICIPATE IN DEMOCRACY.

AND I REALLY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A ROMANTIC FOR THESE LOCAL SMALL-TOWN STORIES.

I GREW UP IN A SMALL TOWN.

AND WHEN THOSE PAPERS ARE GONE, LIKE THESE TOWNS, THEY LOSE THEIR IDENTITY, THEY LOSE THEIR SENSE OF CONNECTION BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING TO TELL EVERYBODY WHAT BINDS US TOGETHER ANYMORE.

SO, IT'S A ROMANTIC, CHAOTIC ADVENTURE THAT IS NOT A FOR-PROFIT ENDEAVOR.

BUT IT IS REALLY ABOUT STORYTELLING, I THINK.

>> Jeff: GOTCHA, THANK YOU.

IT'S GOING TO PAIN ME TO SAY THIS AS SOMEONE WHO GREW UP AS A JOURNALIST AND NEWSPAPERS AND STILL LOVES THEM VERY, VERY MUCH.

BUT A RECENT STUDY FROM THE REUTERS INSTITUTE FOUND THAT NEARLY HALF OF FOLKS GOT THEIR NEWS FROM NEWSPAPERS IN 2013, THAT NUMBER WAS DOWN TO 16% LAST YEAR.

AND THE TRENDS ALL SHOW THAT BASICALLY NO ONE UNDER 50 READS NEWSPAPERS AND IS NEVER GOING TO READ NEWSPAPERS.

RICH, I WANT TO ASK YOU WHAT IS EL RITO DOING TO MAKE THE LEGACY PAPERS THAT Y'ALL HAVE BOUGHT RELEVANT FOR YOUNGER NEW MEXICANS?

>> Connor: WELL, WE'VE GOT A REALLY INTERESTING DICHOTOMY THAT'S GOING TO BE CREATING AN EVEN WIDER GAP IN THE WAY OUR PAPERS ARE READ WITH THE ACQUISITION OF THE PAPERS IN ALAMOGORDO, RUIDOSO, AND CARLSBAD.

THE FIRST PAPER THAT THE EL RITO INVESTORS BOUGHT -- I'M AN INVESTOR NOW, I WASN'T THEN.

IN ESPANOLA, THE RIO GRANDE SUN.

WE SELL 5,000 PAPERS EVERY WEDNESDAY.

SINGLE COPY.

>> Jeff: THEY'RE GONE BEFORE YOU CAN GET THEM OFF THE PRINTING PRESS.

>> Connor: WE HAVE 900 THAT ARE MAILED.

SO, I DON'T KNOW OF ANY PLACE IN THE COUNTRY THAT'S LIKE THAT WHERE YOU HAVE THAT KIND OF BRAND LOYALTY.

SO, THAT'S TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

YEAH, THE PEOPLE ARE OLDER.

BUT WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, HAWKERS RIGHT OUTSIDE OUR DOOR, AND PEOPLE OF ALL AGES AND ALL WALKS OF LIFE DRIVE UP OR WALK UP AND BUY A PAPER.

WE WENT FROM 75 CENTS TO A DOLLAR.

WE DIDN'T LOSE A READER.

THAT'S UNHEARD OF.

SO, THAT IS REALLY AN OUTLIER IN THE BUSINESS, THE RIO GRANDE SUN.

GREAT READERS, GREAT LOYALTY.

WHEN YOU GET TO THE OTHER PAPERS WE OWN, ARTESIA, AND THE PAPERS I MENTIONED THAT WE JUST BOUGHT FROM GANNETT, VERY LOW READERSHIP IN PRINT, BUT VERY HIGH ONLINE.

>> Jeff: OKAY.

>> Connor: AND THE DEMOGRAPHIC IS A LITTLE BIT MORE DIVERSE THAN YOU MIGHT THINK.

MORE WOMEN THAN MEN, AND WE GET SOME PEOPLE UNDER 50.

WE'RE NEW INTO THESE PAPERS WE JUST BOUGHT.

BUT THE STUFF WE'VE LOOKED AT HAS BEEN PRETTY INTERESTING IN THAT REGARD.

BUT THERE'S -- THOSE PAPERS THAT WE HAVE PURCHASED HAD VIRTUALLY NO LOCAL NEWS.

THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ATTRACTED US TO THIS.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE GOOD AT.

AND WE HOPE WE'LL BUILD SOME READERSHIP.

WE THINK WE'LL BUILD SOME PRINT READERSHIP, BUT MOST OF IT WILL CONTINUE TO BE ONLINE.

>> Jeff: I WANT TO SAY WITH YOU FOR A MOMENT AND TALK STRATEGY.

IS EL RITO TRYING TO MAKE A PROFIT WITH THESE NEWSPAPERS THAT Y'ALL HAVE BOUGHT?

OR IS THERE SOME OTHER MOTIVATION, KIND OF ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT PAT WAS JUST SAYING?

>> Connor: NO, THAT IS A GOAL.

IT'S NOT THE PRIORITY.

THE FIRST PRIORITY IN BUYING THE RIO GRANDE SUN WAS -- AND THE ORIGINAL INVESTORS, IF THEY HAD A MISSION, AND THEY REALLY DIDN'T HAVE A STATEMENT OR ANYTHING, IT WAS LET'S CREATE AN EXPERIMENT TO SEE IF THE LOCAL NEWSPAPER CAN BE SAVED.

AND THE COMMUNITY JOURNALISM CAN REMAIN ALIVE.

THAT'S NOT TO IMPLY THAT THE RIO GRANDE SUN WAS GOING OUT OF BUSINESS.

BUT CLEARLY, THESE SMALLER PAPERS ARE ENDANGERED.

SO THAT WAS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.

CAN WE SAVE THIS?

CAN WE MAKE A GO OF IT?

I'LL BE HELD TO THIS NOW, BUT WE WILL BE PROFITABLE WITH THE ADDITION OF THESE THREE GANNETT PAPERS.

THEY WERE HIGHLY PROFITABLE, BELIEVE IT OR NOT.

WHICH FLIES IN THE FACE OF WHAT WE ALL KNOW.

NO LOCAL NEWS, REALLY NO EMPLOYEES, NO FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES.

NO SALESPEOPLE.

YET, ALL THREE OF THEM WERE VERY PROFITABLE.

>> Jeff: GOTCHA.

RICH, THE OWNERSHIP GROUP AT EL RITO INCLUDES RYAN CANGIOLOSI, WHO OF COURSE IS A FORMER REPUBLICAN STATE PARTY CHAIR.

HARVEY YATES, WHO IS FORMER REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEEMAN.

I'M INTERESTED IN WHY WOULD THE COMPANY MISS AN OPPORTUNITY TO SHAPE PERCEPTION THROUGH THE NEWS IN A WAY THAT FITS THE OWNERSHIP'S AGENDA?

>> Connor: THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

WE HAVE TEN INVESTORS.

THE LEAD INVESTOR IS HARVEY YATES.

HE SEES THE PAPER THE SAME TIME OUR READERS SEE IT.

HE'S NEVER BEEN INVOLVED IN A NEWS DECISION OR AN EDITORIAL DECISION.

SO, RYAN -- I'VE MET RYAN TWICE.

SO THE INVESTORS REALLY -- THEY'RE NOT INVOLVED.

THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I AGREED TO COME HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE WAS I'VE BEEN THE PUBLISHER OF A NUMBER OF NEWSPAPERS AND THE EDITOR OF ONE.

STARTED AS A REPORTER, AND HAVE HAD MY OWN COMPANY FOR LONG TIME.

OVER 20 YEARS.

SO, YOU KNOW, WHAT I TOLD THE GROUP WAS I'M NOT USED TO HAVING A BOSS.

I HAVEN'T HAD ONE FOR LONG TIME.

I WASN'T VERY GOOD AT BEING AN EMPLOYEE WHEN I HAD A BOSS, SO I HAVE TO RUN THE NEWSPAPERS.

AND IF YOU LET ME DO THAT, WE'LL BE FINE.

AND IT'S REALLY BEEN AMAZING.

WE HAVE A POLITICIAN, STATE REP. JOSEPH SANCHEZ.

HE WAS AN INVESTOR.

HE JUST SOLD HIS INVESTMENT.

BELIEVE IT OR NOT, HE GOT SOMEONE TO BUY IT.

AND BECAUSE HE'S GOING TO DO SOME OTHER THINGS AND HE FELT HE MIGHT HAVE A CONFLICT.

SO, WE'VE REALLY BEEN LUCKY IN THAT REGARD, AND PEOPLE IMMEDIATELY JUMPED ONTO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIRS AND THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO HAVE THIS AGENDA.

THE ONLY AGENDA WE'VE HAD IN THAT REGARD IS TO TRY TO BRING WHAT I WOULD CALL SOME BALANCE TO THESE PAPERS.

SO IN THE NORTH, IN ESPANOLA, MOST OF THE STUFF THAT WAS WRITTEN YOU WOULD SAY IT WAS LEFT LEANING.

IN ARTESIA, IT WAS RIGHT LEANING.

AND WHAT I CHOOSE IS STUFF THAT'S ON THE EDITORIAL PAGES.

I GET FEEDBACK ON IT.

I LOOK TO TRY TO GET BALANCE.

>> Jeff: WITH CTRL+P, BROADLY SPEAKING, OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE THE OWNER.

OBVIOUSLY, YOU'RE MAKING BUSINESS DECISIONS.

I HAVE SEEN YOUR BYLINE ON STORIES AT CITY DESK ABQ, INCLUDING ON SOME BIG STORIES.

SO WHAT ARE FOLKS TO MAKE OF YOUR ROLE?

ARE YOU WHAT WE USED TO THINK OF AS THE PUBLISHER?

ARE YOU THE OWNER?

ARE YOU LOOKING TO GET INTO THE JOURNALISM GAME?

I COULD ADVISE YOU AGAINST DOING THAT.

>> Davis: I COULD ADVISE ME AGAINST IT TOO.

>> Jeff: SO, WHAT'S YOUR ROLE?

>> Davis: MY ROLE SIMPLY -- I'M TRYING TO PUT ALL THESE PIECES TOGETHER.

BUT WHEN WE PICKED UP THE SMALLER PAPERS IN SANDOVAL COUNTY AND THE SANDOVAL SIGNPOST, OR CORRALES COMMENT, OR THE INDEPENDENT, AS RICH SAID, THEY HAD A HALF-TIME PERSON, OR A FULL-TIME PERSON.

SO WE ALL HAVE SORT OF CHIPPED IN A TIME OR TWO TO COVER A CITY COUNCIL MEETING.

WHEN WE LAUNCHED CITY DESK, WE WERE LOOKING FOR STAFF.

SOMEBODY HAD TO COVER THAT MEETING.

SO I STEP IN AND DO IT, BUT WE'RE CLEAR ABOUT WHO I AM.

I GET EDITED LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.

AND THE FEW TIMES I'VE DONE IT, WE'VE DONE IT AS A COLUMNIST ROLE.

WHERE IT'S CLEAR I'M WRITING FROM MY PERSPECTIVE IN DOING THAT.

I HAVEN'T WRITTEN SINCE, I THINK, APRIL.

THAT'S OUR LONG-TERM GOAL.

IN THESE START-UP PAPERS, WHEN IT USED TO BE AN EDITOR WHO WAS THE COOK AND BOTTLE WASHER, AND PRINTER, AND LAYOUT, AND DRIVER, FINDING AND BUILDING A TEAM TO TAKE ON ALL THOSE ROLES HAS BEEN REALLY HARD.

SOMETIMES I STEP IN TO HELP, BUT I STILL GET EDITED JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.

>> Jeff: OKAY, GOTCHA.

JUST STICKING WITH THIS THEME FOR A MOMENT, RICH, I WANT TO GO BACK TO YOU.

AND I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU TOLD ME EARLIER ABOUT THE FIREWALLS YOU FEEL LIKE ARE IN PLACE, BUT DO YOU FEEL LIKE THE REPORTERS AND EDITORS WORKING AT YOUR NEWSPAPERS WOULD, FOR EXAMPLE, FEEL COMFORTABLE IN CRITICAL COVERAGE OF, SAY, THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY, GIVEN HARVEY YATES'S JOB AND STATURE IN THAT BUSINESS?

>> Connor: THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

IN CARLSBAD, WE HAVE A REPORTER BY THE NAME OF ADRIAN HEDDEN.

HIS BEAT WITH GANNETT WAS THE ENVIRONMENT, AND OBVIOUSLY OIL AND GAS FALLS UNDER THAT.

SO, ARTESIA JUST CELEBRATED 100 YEARS OF THE FIRST MAJOR WELL IN NEW MEXICO.

IT'S CALLED ILLINOIS NUMBER THREE.

IT WAS DRILLED BY HARVEY YATES'S GRANDFATHER.

ADRIAN COVERED THAT.

THERE WAS A BIG DINNER.

IT WAS A WEEKEND CELEBRATION.

HE COVERED THAT.

NO ONE BY THE NAME OF YATES SAW ANY OF THOSE STORIES BEFORE THEY APPEARED.

AND WHAT I'VE TOLD HIM IS IT'S GOING TO BE MORE PRESSURE TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT HE COMES ACROSS AS BEING FAIR.

IT'S A VERY CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECT, OBVIOUSLY.

VERY HARD TO BE RIGHT, IF YOU WILL.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HE SAID THAT WE HOPE WE CAN HELP WITH IS THE ENVIRONMENTAL CLIMATE CHANGE PEOPLE ARE VERY EASY TO ACCESS.

THEY CALL HIM, THEY WRITE HIM.

THEY CALL HIM RIGHT BACK.

HE SAYS THE OIL AND GAS PEOPLE AREN'T.

>> Davis: THAT'S TRUE.

>> Jeff: I CAN RELATE TO THAT.

>> Connor: SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE'VE DONE IS WHEN WE MEET SOME OIL AND GAS PEOPLE, THEY HELPED SPONSOR SPECIAL PUBLICATION WE DID, WE'VE SAID HEY, OUR REPORTER THAT COVERS THIS SAYS YOU DON'T CALL HIM BACK.

YOU HAVE TO CALL HIM BACK.

SO, IT PUTS MORE PRESSURE, I WOULD SAY, ON THAT ONE REPORTER.

BUT WHAT PAT JUST SAID ABOUT THESE PAPERS IS -- THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS.

IT'S HARD TO FIND PEOPLE.

YOU HAVE ALL THESE JOURNALISTS THAT HAVE BEEN LAID OFF IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS, AND YOU RUN ADS.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO FIND -- I'M NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT GOOD PEOPLE, PEOPLE THAT WANT TO WORK AT A NEWSPAPER ANYMORE.

CAN YOU BLAME THEM?

WHEN THEY HAVE THE STATISTICS LIKE YOU HAVE.

SO, EVERYBODY AT THESE SMALLER PAPERS -- AND CARLSBAD AND ALAMOGORDO ARE GOING TO BE BIGGER, BUT EVERYBODY'S GOT TO BE WILLING TO DO VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING.

I'VE COVERED A COUPLE CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS UP IN ESPANOLA.

I HAVEN'T BEEN A REPORTER FOR 40 YEARS.

AND YOU KNOW, I SAID I'VE GOT TO GO OVER THERE.

SOMEBODY SAID YOU CAN COVER THEM ONLINE.

I'M LIKE, YOU CAN?

>> Connor: YOU WENT THOUGH, DIDN'T YOU, RICH?

>> Connor: I DID.

>> Davis: AND HAD PAPER IN HAND, YEAH.

>> Connor: I ALSO MIGHT HAVE BEEN SIT AT HOME TOO, WHEN I WENT THERE.

YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO DO EVERYTHING AT THESE PAPERS, IF YOU'RE COMMITTED TO MAKING THEM WORK, AND BEING PERSONALLY INVOLVED IN THEM, AND LETTING THE PUBLIC KNOW THAT THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE WILLING TO DO TO GIVE THEM HOPEFULLY A GOOD NEWSPAPER.

>> Jeff: WE'RE ABOUT OUT OF TIME.

I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU GUYS ABOUT 45 SECONDS A PIECE FOR THIS ONE.

AND I WANT TO RETURN TO THAT REUTERS INSTITUTE STUDY FOR THIS LAST QUESTION.

IT FOUND THAT OVERALL TRUST IN NEWS IN THE U.S. IS AT 32%.

THAT'S AN ALL-TIME LOW.

PAT, I'LL GO TO YOU FIRST.

WHY SHOULD READERS TRUST CTRL+P'S STORIES?

WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO WORK ON THE TRUST PROBLEM?

>> Davis: SAYS THE RECOVERING POLITICIAN, LIKE 33% APPROVAL RATING IS PRETTY GOOD FROM THE JOB I JUST LEFT, SO I'LL TAKE THAT.

>> Jeff: FAIR.

>> Davis: REALLY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, KUDOS TO THE LOCAL NEWS FUND.

UNM JOURNALISM SCHOOL, AND NMSU'S JOURNALISM SCHOOL.

THEY'VE PLACED TWO INTERNS AND FELLOWS WITH US NOW.

ONE OF THEM JUST GRADUATED, TURNED INTO A FULL-TIME REPORTER.

THESE LOCAL EFFORTS ARE TRYING TO BUILD THE PIPELINE OF NEW MEXICO JOURNALISTS WHO UNDERSTAND AND GREW UP HERE AND COME BACK THAT WANT TO WORK.

AT THE INDEPENDENT IN EDGEWOOD WHERE LILY MCCALL WAS, NOW AT CITY DESK, WE'RE REINVESTING IN NEW MEXICO.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU REALLY HAVE TO SEE.

THESE GHOST PAPERS WHERE GANNETT HAD A BANNER BUT THE SAME STORY RAN IN FARMINGTON, CARLSBAD, AND RUIDOSO, AND GOT ALL THE NAMES WRONG AND THE MAPS WRONG, THAT IS AS MUCH ABOUT DISTRUST AS ANYTHING ELSE.

LOOK IN YOUR LOCAL PAPER AND SEE THAT THEY'RE COVERING SOMETHING LOCAL AND PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL THEIR OFFICE AND ASK HOW DO I GET A SUBSCRIPTION.

GO ONLINE AND SEE IF SOMEONE REALLY CALLS YOU BACK.

I THINK MORE AND MORE YOU'LL FIND THAT A NEW MEXICAN IS CALLING YOU BACK IN THESE PAPERS THAT DIDN'T USED TO BE THAT.

>> Jeff: OKAY.

RICH, WHAT'S EL RITO DOING TO COMMUNICATE WITH READERS, THE STRATEGIES YOU GUYS ARE USING TO IMPROVE TRUST.

WE'RE OBVIOUSLY IN THE GUTTER, WHERE THIS IS CONCERNED.

HOW ARE YOU TACKLING THAT PROBLEM?

>> Connor: WELL, WITH THE THREE NEW PAPERS IN PARTICULAR, WE WILL BE FORMING -- NEXT WEEK WE REALLY -- WE'VE OWNED THE PAPER SINCE JUNE 5th.

WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH GANNETT BASICALLY PRODUCING THE SAME PAPERS THEY WERE.

WE'VE ADDED LOCAL COVERAGE ALREADY.

WE WERE, UNFORTUNATELY, AIDED BY THE FIRE OF RUIDOSO.

BUT WE DID A GREAT JOB OF COVERING THAT.

BUT WE WILL, NEXT WEEK, WE WILL BE TOTALLY DIVORCED FROM GANNETT.

>> Jeff: CONGRATULATIONS.

>>Connor: WELL, I GOT TO TRY AND BE POLITICAL AND NOT RESPOND.

>> Jeff: FAIR.

>> Connor: BUT WE WILL BE ANNOUNCING THAT WE ARE GOING TO CREATE ADVISORY COMMITTEES IN EACH OF THOSE THREE COMMUNITIES.

ALAMOGORDO, RUIDOSO, CARLSBAD.

AND PEOPLE WILL WRITE US.

I'VE DONE THIS BEFORE.

THEY'LL SAY I WANT TO BE ON THE COMMITTEE, AND WE'LL MEET WITH THEM, PROBABLY, INITIALLY EVERY COUPLE WEEKS AND SAY THIS IS YOUR NEWSPAPER.

THIS ISN'T OUR PAPER.

THESE NEWSPAPERS BELONG TO THE COMMUNITY.

WE'RE A PUBLIC TRUST.

AND WE WANT YOU TO TELL US WHETHER WE'RE DOING A GOOD JOB, A BAD JOB, AND HOW WE CAN DO BETTER.

AND I'VE HAD SUCCESS WITH THIS BEFORE.

SO, THAT'S THE MAJOR THING WE'RE DOING.

AS WELL AS -- WE'VE DONE THIS IN ARTESIA AND IN ESPANOLA, INVITE PEOPLE TO WRITE, TAKE PHOTOS, WE'LL PUBLISH THEM.

NEWSPAPERS, I'VE DONE THIS LONG TIME.

THEY'RE GREAT AT HAVING RULES THAT FIT THEM.

THAT DON'T FIT THE COMMUNITY.

AND ARE HORRIBLE AT CUSTOMER SERVICE.

THESE PAPERS BELONG TO THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITIES.

AND WE NEED TO MAKE THEM THINK THAT.

AND HOPEFULLY THEY'LL TRUST US A LITTLE BIT MORE.

>> Jeff: WELL, THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR THE TIME THIS WEEK.

AND GOOD LUCK WITH THE TWO COMPANIES.

>> Davis: THANKS.

>> Jeff: THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.