>> Laura: JULIA BERNAL, I'M SO GLAD THAT YOU'RE BACK IN THE STUDIO.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> Bernal: YES, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

HAPPY TO BE HERE.

>> Laura: SO, ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT ON THE SHOW BEFORE, AND I'VE HEARD YOU TALK ABOUT IT, HOW THE LIBERATION OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLE IS LIBERATION FOR ALL.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT FOR PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT UNDERSTAND THAT?

>> Bernal: SURE.

OF COURSE, I THINK THAT THERE'S -- IT CAN BE INTERPRETED MANY DIFFERENT WAYS, BUT I THINK FOR US AND THE WAY THAT WE LOOK AT LIBERATION IS LIKE THESE ACTS OF SHIFTING PARADIGMS.

BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A PARADIGM NOW LIKE OUR DOMINANT PARADIGM, YOU KNOW, IS WITHIN AN ECONOMIC SYSTEM THAT VIEWS THE NATURAL WORLD AS NATURAL RESOURCES, AS WAYS TO STIMULATE MARKETS, OR WAYS THAT SHOW WHAT TYPE OF WEALTH A NATION-STATE HAS.

IF WE THINK ABOUT LIBERATION IN THE SENSE OF DISMANTLING THAT TYPE OF PARADIGM OR WORLDVIEW AND RETURNING TO A WORLDVIEW OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLES THAT WERE GIVEN ORIGINAL INSTRUCTIONS UPON CREATION TO CARE FOR LAND, TO CARE FOR COMMUNITIES, TO RESPECT WHAT THE NATURAL WORLD GIVES US AND WHAT THEY GIVE US WE CAN ALSO GIVE BACK CAN SHIFT THE WAY THAT WE VIEW NATURAL RESOURCES.

AND GIVE A LITTLE BIT MORE RESPECT TO THOSE ENTITIES.

I THINK INDIGENOUS PEOPLE ACROSS THE WORLD SHARE A VALUE THAT LAND AND WATER AND ANIMALS AND PLANTS ARE ALL APART OF OUR ECOSYSTEM AND WE'RE APART OF THAT ECOSYSTEM TOO.

SO, LIBERATING OURSELVES FROM THESE CONCEPTS OF VIEWING LAND AS LIKE PROPERTY, OR PUTTING THINGS IN AN ECONOMIC SENSE CAN ALSO HELP US INCH TOWARD WHAT WE BELIEVE COULD BE TRUE LIBERATION.

>> Laura: YEAH.

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WILL UNDOUBTEDLY AFFECT COMMUNITIES AND THE ENVIRONMENT IN NEW MEXICO.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'RE MOST WATCHFUL OF?

>> Bernal: MM-HMM.

WELL, I THINK A LOT OF THE ENVIRONMENT ENVIRONMENT COMMUNITY, OR THE CLIMATE COMMUNITY, CLIMATE JUSTICE COMMUNITY, ARE LOOKING AT SOME OF THE RULES THAT COULD BE POTENTIALLY ROLLED BACK.

EITHER RULES UNDER EPA OR ANY TYPE OF LAND MANAGEMENT OR WATER MANAGEMENT OFFICE.

SO, WITH THAT BEING OUR REALITY, AND ALSO, HE DID VOW TO STEP OUT OF THE PARIS ACCORD AND CHOOSE NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN THAT SPACE.

WHAT I THINK WE'RE SEEING SORT OF CONTINUED, EVEN FROM LIKE THE NIXON ADMINISTRATION, IS THIS AGENDA TO CULTIVATE DOMESTIC NATURAL RESOURCES TO SEVER DEPENDENCY FROM, LIKE, YOU KNOW, FOREIGN OIL OR WHATEVER.

WHAT THAT MEANS TO US, I THINK, FOR NATIVE PEOPLE, AND EVEN POPULATIONS THAT LIVE IN LARGER LAND MASSES, WE WILL START TO SEE THE ADMINISTRATION START TO EITHER INCENTIVIZE OR COERCE, WHATEVER THE TACTIC IS TO DEVELOP THOSE RESOURCES.

BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT IS AT A PLACE WHERE I THINK THEY RECOGNIZE THAT MOST OF THE NATURAL RESOURCES THAT ARE STILL, YOU KNOW, EXISTING IN THE U.S. ARE EITHER ON NATIVE LANDS OR NEAR NATIVE LANDS.

SO, THERE IS GOING TO NEED TO BE, LIKE, DUE DILIGENCE WITH TRIBES TO HELP THEM DEVELOP NATURAL RESOURCES, WHICH SCARES ME A LOT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I COME FROM A PUEBLO COMMUNITY AND SHARED VALUES WITH OTHER PUEBLOS THAT DON'T WANT TO DEVELOP OUR LAND IN THAT WAY, AND DON'T WANT TO ENGAGE IN THAT SYSTEM.

OF COURSE, THERE ARE TRIBES THAT DO DO THAT.

AND SOME COULD ARGUE THAT IT IS THEIR SOVEREIGN RIGHT, BUT WHAT TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT ARE WE GOING TO DO THAT IS OUTSIDE OF OUR WORLD VIEW, WHICH I FEEL COULD BE LIKE, YOU KNOW, COULD BE DANGEROUS.

>> Laura: SO, I WANT TO TAKE US BACK TO THE TAIL END OF THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.

THE DAKOTA ACCESS PIPELINE PROTESTS AT STANDING ROCK.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE LESSONS THAT YOU FEEL CAME OUT OF THAT MOVEMENT, AND OUT OF THAT ATTEMPT AT RESISTANCE AGAINST THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, EVEN A DEMOCRATIC ADMINISTRATION?

>> Bernal: YEAH, I THINK THAT WHAT -- AND I'M GOING TO KIND OF LOOK TOWARDS THIS NEW ADMINISTRATION.

WHAT WE WILL SEE IS HOW QUICKLY DECISIONS CAN BE MADE.

AND WE'LL SEE HOW THAT SYSTEM CAN BENEFIT A RIGHT AGENDA.

I THINK WITH STANDING ROCK A LOT OF WATER PROTECTORS AND TRIBAL MEMBERS KNEW THAT OBAMA COULD HAVE MADE THAT DECISION TO STOP THE DAKOTA ACCESS PIPELINE, BUT BLAMED IT ON BUREAUCRATIC PROCESS OR WHATEVER THE REASON WAS FOR, YOU KNOW, IT TO NOT HALT THAT PROJECT.

I THINK WE WILL SEE HOW QUICKLY THINGS CAN HAPPEN IN THIS NEW ADMINISTRATION.

AND, TO ME, THAT JUST SHOWS THAT THIS SYSTEM CAN WORK FOR THE WEALTHY.

IT CAN WORK FOR THE RIGHT AGENDA.

AND, EVEN NOW, I THINK THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS ALSO TRYING TO ROLL THROUGH SOME NEW RULES BEFORE, YOU KNOW, NEXT YEAR.

AND SO, IT JUST SHOWS ME THAT IF THE GOVERNMENT REALLY WANTED TO MAKE A DECISION ON SOMETHING, IT COULD HAPPEN STEADFAST.

INSTEAD, YOU KNOW WE'RE, I THINK -- LIKE THE ROSE-COLORED GLASSES ARE GOING TO COME OFF IN THIS NEXT ADMINISTRATION.

>> Laura: YEAH.

SO, I THINK IT'S ENTIRELY FAIR TO SAY THAT THERE'S A CULTURE OF TOXIC MASCULINITY IN THIS COUNTRY THAT PERVADES POLITICS AND SYSTEMS AND JUST PERVADES OUR SOCIETY.

AND I'VE HEARD YOU TALK A NUMBER OF TIMES ABOUT PUEBLO FEMINISM WITH REGARD TO NATURAL RESOURCES, BUT ALSO COMMUNITY.

AND I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT LEADERSHIP, TRUE LEADERSHIP, MEANS WHEN WE THINK ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN TOXIC MASCULINITY AND WHITENESS.

>> Bernal: I THINK ONE THING THAT I'VE REALLY NOTICED, JUST WITH THE ELECTION, IS THAT THE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM HAS REALLY POLARIZED POLITICS.

AND THAT, THEN, CREATES DIVISION IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

I, AS A GRASSROOTS ORGANIZER, BUT ALSO AS A PUEBLO COMMUNITY MEMBER, DON'T WANT TO FEED INTO THAT DIVISION.

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I CAN SEE THAT FOR WHAT IT IS.

YOU KNOW, THESE DIVIDE-AND-CONQUER TACTICS ARE PLAYING MORE AND MORE OF A ROLE AND WE HAVE VERY POLARIZING POLITICS.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE DEPENDENT ON THIS TWO-PARTY SYSTEM.

I THINK, LIKE, WHEN I TALK ABOUT PUEBLO FEMINISM WHAT I THINK THAT ENCOMPASSES FOR ME IS LIKE THIS ACT OF REMATRIATION AND RETURNING BACK TO LIKE THAT VALUE THAT WE VIEW OUR MOTHER AS THE EARTH, AS THE RIVER.

AND SO MUCH OF A MOTHER'S ROLE IS CARE, NURTURING, LOVE, RESPECT.

THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF VALUES THAT I WANT TO ALIGN WITH MY PEOPLE ON.

NOT WHAT POLITICAL AGENDA THEY AGREE WITH OR DON'T AGREE WITH.

BECAUSE THAT, AGAIN, CAN CREATE THAT DIVISION THAT WE JUST DON'T NEED.

WE NEED ALIGNMENT.

WE NEED TO BE TOGETHER.

WE NEED TO BE A STRONG FORCE.

OF COURSE, THAT'S LIKE SOMETHING THAT WE LEARNED FROM THE PUEBLO REVOLT AS WELL, THESE STRONG ALIGNMENTS WITH OUR COMMUNITIES IS WHAT CAN MAKE CHANGE ACTUALLY HAPPEN.

SO, LIKE, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF LIKE PUTTING THAT EXAMPLE INTO FEMINISM, IT'S REALLY MEANT FOR ALL OF OUR PEOPLE.

YOU KNOW, HOW CAN WE UPLIFT THE ROLES OF OUR MEN IN OUR COMMUNITY, HOW CAN WE UPLIFT THE ROLES OF THE MOTHERS IN OUR COMMUNITY, OR THE CHILDREN, OR ELDERS, OR NON-BINARY TRANS COMMUNITY AS WELL.

EVERYONE'S IMPORTANT.

EVERYONE HAS A ROLE.

EVERYONE HAS A VOICE.

SO, AGAIN, LOOKING BEYOND WHAT TRUMP'S ADMINISTRATION -- WHAT THAT AGENDA IS GOING TO BRING INTO THE NEXT FOUR YEARS, LET'S TRY TO LOOK BEYOND THAT, AND ALIGN ON THOSE VALUES THAT I THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US TO PROTECT IN THIS MOMENT TOO.

>> Laura: THANK YOU, JULIA.

I APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE.

AND I APPRECIATE YOU.

>> Bernal: THANK YOU SO MUCH, LAURA.