>> Laura: ARTURO SANDOVAL, THANKS FOR BEING BACK IN THE STUDIO WITH ME.

>> Sandoval: IT'S GREAT TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> Laura: THANKS, ARTURO.

SO YOU WERE A PART OF THE MOVEMENT THAT BIRTHED MANY OF OUR MOST IMPORTANT ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS MORE THAN 50 YEARS AGO.

AS WE'RE STANDING AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME, THIS MOMENT IN HISTORY, WHAT DO YOU SEE THE FUTURE OF THOSE LAWS AS?

>> Sandoval: WELL, I THINK WE'RE IN A REALLY DIFFICULT SITUATION NOW.

AND THE SECOND TRUMP TERM IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO, I THINK, DISMANTLE A LOT -- WELL, ALL THE FEDERAL LAWS, I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO REALLY DISMANTLE ALL THE LAWS THAT WERE PUT IN PLACE OVER THE LAST 50 YEARS.

STARTING 50 YEARS AGO, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE A COMPLETE DISMANTLING OF THAT VERY SYSTEMATIC WAY.

AND I THINK WE'RE GOING TO LET MAJOR POLLUTERS, OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY, RUN AMOK.

I THINK WE'RE GOING TO BE IN REALLY BAD SHAPE AT THE END OF THIS NEXT TRUMP TERM.

SO, IT'S NOT LOOKING GOOD FOR THE PLANET AND FOR ALL THE LIVING THINGS ON THE PLANET.

CERTAINLY IN THE SHORT-TERM FUTURE, AND DEFINITELY WE'RE GOING TO LOSE THE FEDERAL PROTECTIONS THAT WE COUNTED ON OVER THE LAST 50 YEARS.

I THINK THOSE ARE GOING TO BE COMPLETELY GONE, OR DISMANTLED TO A LEVEL WHERE THEY'RE NOT ENFORCEABLE AND THEY CAN'T DO WHAT THEY WERE INTENDED TO DO.

SO, I'M NOT OPTIMISTIC IN THE SHORT-TERM.

>> Laura: YEAH.

SO, YOU AND I HAVE KNOWN EACH OTHER A PRETTY LONG TIME.

>> Sandoval: RIGHT.

>> Laura: AND ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE ALWAYS -- I'VE APPRECIATED LOTS OF THINGS ABOUT YOU, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE REALLY APPRECIATED IS I FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE A BIG VISION.

YOU SEE THE BIG PICTURE NATIONALLY, GLOBALLY, BUT YOUR WORK IS VERY GROUNDED IN THE LOCAL AND IN THIS PLACE.

WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT NEW MEXICANS WHO CARE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT AND COMMUNITY GOING TO NEED TO DO IN THE COMING MONTHS AND THE COMING YEARS?

>> Sandoval: YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S STILL A LOT WE CAN DO.

WE CAN CONTINUE TO DO WHAT WE'RE ALREADY DOING LOCALLY.

CERTAINLY, IF YOU LOOK AT THE RESULTS OF THE RECENT ELECTION, NEW MEXICO STILL DID VERY, VERY WELL.

FOR EXAMPLE, GABE VASQUEZ INCREASED HIS VOTE TOTALS OVER THE FIRST TIME HE RAN TWO YEARS AGO.

IT WENT FROM -- I THINK HE WON BY 12 OR 1300 VOTES, AND THIS TIME AROUND HE SOLIDIFIED THAT POSITION BY ABOUT 10,000 VOTES PLUS.

AND ALL OF OUR DELEGATION ARE DEMOCRATS AND THEY'RE ALL SUPPORTERS OF THE ENVIRONMENT.

SO, THAT'S A BIG, BIG PLUS FOR THE STATE.

I THINK THE GOVERNOR HAS A MIXED BAG ON ENVIRONMENT, BUT I THINK A LOT OF OUR LEGISLATORS, LEADERSHIP IN THE LEGISLATURE, ARE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF SUPPORTING THE ENVIRONMENT.

SO, WE'RE LUCKY IN NEW MEXICO IN THE FACT THAT WE ARE A VERY BLUE STATE WITH LEADERSHIP, ELECTED LEADERSHIP, THAT DOES HAVE A COMMITMENT TO THE ENVIRONMENT OVERALL.

YOU KNOW, NOT ALL OF THEM, BUT OVERALL THERE'S A STRONG COMMITMENT.

SO, WE HAVE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY HERE IN NEW MEXICO TO KEEP PROTECTING THIS PARTICULAR PLACE THAT WE LOVE SO MUCH.

WE'RE ALSO BLESSED IN NEW MEXICO THAT THE INDIGENOUS TRIBES, THE PUEBLOS, THE NAVAJOS AND JICARILLA AND THE MESCALERO, HAVE LAND BASES.

AND I THINK THEY HAVE A DEEP CULTURAL VALUE FOR PROTECTING PLACE.

AND WE'RE BLESSED TO HAVE THEM LIVING IN NEW MEXICO BECAUSE THEY'RE KEEPING -- I THINK THEY'RE DOING MORE THAN THEIR PART TO PROTECT OUR WATER AND OUR LAND BASES.

AND THEY'RE NOT OVERDEVELOPING THEM, AND THEY'RE VERY, VERY COGNIZANT OF NEEDING TO PROTECT THESE PLACES.

SO, WE'RE BLESSED IN NEW MEXICO TO HAVE THEM HERE.

>> Laura: SO, WHAT CAN PEOPLE DO IN THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES, NEIGHBORHOODS, CITIES?

HOW DO WE COME TOGETHER AND STAND AGAINST THIS DISMANTLING?

>> Sandoval: AGAIN, I THINK IT'S ORGANIZE.

SOMEBODY ASKED ME WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO AS A RESULT OF THIS ELECTION.

I SAID, I'M NOT GOING TO AGONIZE, I'M GOING TO ORGANIZE.

I THINK THAT'S THE RALLYING CALL THAT WE NEED TO KEEP DOING WHAT WE'RE DOING POSITIVELY TO BUILD COMMUNITY, BUT WE NEED TO DO IT WITH MUCH MORE INTENTION.

WE HAVE TO REALLY REACH OUT TO OTHER GROUPS AND ORGANIZATIONS AND NEIGHBORS TO CONTINUE TO BUILD THE POSITIVE THINGS WE CAN DO.

YOU KNOW, IN OUR CENTER, WE DO ORGANIC BACKYARD GARDENS.

THIS YEAR, ALL THE WAY FROM JICARILLA APACHE NATION TO COLUMBUS, BORDER TO BORDER, WE'RE DOING ORGANIC BACKYARD GARDENING.

WE HAVE 3300 PEOPLE GROWING THEIR OWN VEGETABLES.

THAT'S NOT REVOLUTIONARY, BUT IT'S SOMETHING REALLY TANGIBLE THAT CAN GET PEOPLE THINKING ABOUT HOW THEY CAN OWN THEIR OWN LIVES IN OTHER AREA AS WELL.

NOT JUST FOOD, BUT THEY CAN THEN SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, I DON'T LIKE THE FACT THAT SOMEBODY -- THIS COMPANY IS POLLUTING THE AIR HERE, I'M GOING TO TALK TO MY OTHER NEIGHBORS THAT ARE GROWING VEGETABLES AND LET'S SEE WHAT WE CAN DO ABOUT IT.

SO, THERE'S GREAT POWER IN LOCAL ORGANIZING.

AND WE HAVE TO REDOUBLE OUR EFFORTS TO KEEP GETTING OURSELVES TOGETHER, KEEP TALKING TO EACH OTHER, AND DO POSITIVE THINGS FOR ONE ANOTHER.

AND THAT IS HAPPENING IN NEW MEXICO.

THERE'S LOTS OF GREAT ORGANIZING GOING ON.

THERE'S WONDERFUL GROUPS WORKING IN DIFFERENT VENUES.

SO, I SEE -- I MEAN, I AM SADDENED, AND I THINK WE'RE IN FOR A REALLY HARD TIME.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SUFFER GREATLY IN NEW MEXICO BECAUSE OF THE FEDERAL POLICIES THAT ARE GOING TO BE COMING DOWN IN THE SECOND TRUMP TERM, BUT THAT'S NO REASON FOR US TO WRING OUR HANDS AND GIVE UP.

THAT'S A REASON FOR US TO CONTINUE REACHING OUT TO ONE ANOTHER AND DOING THE WORK.

>> Laura: YEAH.

>> Sandoval: PEOPLE HAVE TO GET OFF THE SOFA.

>> Laura: YEAH.

GET OFF OUR PHONES.

>> Sandoval: AND GET OFF THEIR PHONES.

THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Laura: YEAH.

SO, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IN THE PAST, AND I DON'T THINK WE CAN TALK ABOUT THIS ENOUGH.

FOR PEOPLE WHO KIND OF ARE OUR ALLIES, OUR ACCOMPLICES, OUR PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT COMMUNITY, ABOUT NEW MEXICO, ABOUT LAND AND WATER AND AIR, HOW DO WE WORK BETTER TOGETHER WHILE RESPECTING ONE ANOTHER'S DIFFERENCES?

DIFFERENT HISTORIES, DIFFERENT CULTURES, DIFFERENT NEEDS, HOW DO WE RESPECT ONE ANOTHER AND NOT BE DIVIDED?

COME TOGETHER.

>> Sandoval: WELL, I THINK THAT IT'S HAPPENING.

THERE'S THE CIVIC ENGAGEMENT TABLE, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT'S BEEN AROUND -- I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'VE BEEN AT IT FOR AT LEAST FIVE YEARS, MAYBE TEN.

IT'S AN ORGANIZATION, A COLLABORATION OF ABOUT 40 OR 50 NONPROFITS ALL OVER THE STATE.

AND THEY DO MEET ON A REGULAR BASIS, AND THEY ARE ACTUALLY BUILDING THOSE COALITIONS ALL AROUND THE STATE.

SO, THEY'RE DOING VERY INTENTIONALLY -- THEY'RE DOING THAT KIND OF ORGANIZING.

I THINK A LOT OF US THAT ARE IN THE NONPROFIT WORLD AND WORKING ON THESE ISSUES OF AIR, WATER AND LAND PROTECTION DO REACH OUT TO EACH OTHER.

AND WE SEE THE NEED AND THE VALUE IN COLLABORATION.

IN OUR CENTER, WE'RE MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE WHEN WE REACH OUT TO OTHER GROUPS.

SO, WE REACH OUT TO GROUPS THAT YOU WOULDN'T NORMALLY THINK OF.

FOR EXAMPLE, WE WORK WITH INDIGENOUS AND MEXICANO COMMUNITIES AND WE'VE BEEN DOING A LOT OF FARMING SUPPORT, ORGANIC FARMING, AND THE BACKYARD GARDENING WORK.

BUT, NOW, WE'RE ALSO TEAMING UP WITH TREE NEW MEXICO.

WE'RE TEAMING UP WITH THE FORESTRY DIVISION OF THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE.

AND WE'RE ADDING TO THE GARDENING.

WE'RE ADDING FRUIT TREES.

AND WE'RE NOW GIVING AWAY, ALL OVER THE STATE, WE'LL BE GIVING AWAY TREES.

FRUIT TREES, SHADE TREES, AND IT'S A GREAT WAY TO WORK WITH ORGANIZATIONS THAT I WOULDN'T NORMALLY THINK ABOUT LIKE TREE NEW MEXICO.

BECAUSE, FRANKLY, THEY HAVE BEEN HISTORICALLY AN ALL-WHITE ORGANIZATION, BUT WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT WORK.

AND WE REACHED OUT TO EACH OTHER.

IT WAS A MUTUAL REACHING OUT.

AND THE RESULTS HAVE BEEN SPECTACULAR.

SO, THAT'S WHAT YOU DO.

YOU SAY, HMM, I'VE NEVER TALKED TO THEM BEFORE BUT THEY'RE GIVING AWAY TREES, WHY DON'T WE TALK TO THEM AND SEE IF THEY CAN WORK WITH US TO GIVE AWAY TREES TO OUR INDIGENOUS AND MEXICO COMMUNITIES.

THEY SAID, GREAT, WE'D LIKE TO DO IT, WE JUST DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT.

WE'RE LEARNING FROM THEM.

WE LEARN A LOT FROM THEM.

I THINK THAT IS GOING ON.

I SEE A LOT OF THAT WORK AMONG GROUPS.

LIKE I SAID, I THINK THE LEADERS IN THAT HAVE BEEN THE CIVIC ENGAGEMENT TABLE.

THEY'RE DOING ASTOUNDING WORK ON THE POLICY LEVEL.

>> Laura: ANY ADVICE FOR PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE FEELING A LITTLE AGONIZING RIGHT NOW, OR FEELING A LITTLE BIT HOPELESS, OR LIKE THEY WANT TO LEAVE THE UNITED STATES?

>> Sandoval: WELL, I THINK ANOTHER THING WE HAVE IN NEW MEXICO IS A DEEP SENSE OF PLACE AND TIME, AND A PERSPECTIVE ON TIME.

I KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT PUEBLOANS HAVE BEEN HERE FOR THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

SO, FOR THEM A FOUR-YEAR TERM IS LIKE A BLIP.

IT'S LIKE NOTHING.

AND THEY KNOW THEY'LL SURVIVE IT.

AND I THINK WE NEED TO LEARN FROM THEM AND SAY, YOU KNOW, THINGS ARE NOT GOING TO BE VERY GOOD FOR AT LEAST THE NEXT FOUR YEARS, AND WE DON'T KNOW WHEN WE HIT BOTTOM ON THIS GLOBAL FASCIST MOVEMENT THAT IS GOING AROUND THE WORLD, BUT WE KNOW THAT FOUR YEARS OR EIGHT YEARS OR 20 YEARS IS A BLIP.

SO, WE HAVE WORK TO DO.

WE HAVE VISIONS OF THE SOCIETY WE WANT TO SEE.

AND REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS, WE CAN STILL KEEP BUILDING TOWARDS THAT.

NEW MEXICO IS A BEAUTIFUL PLACE TO DO IT BECAUSE OF OUR HISTORY.

WHO IS ACTUALLY LIVING HERE?

SO, OUR INDIGENOUS POPULATIONS HAVE BEEN HERE FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS, AND THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ERASED, EVEN THOUGH THERE'S BEEN A CONSTANT PLAN AND THE PURPOSE OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SINCE DAY ONE OF THE USA GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN TO COMPLETELY ERASE THEM.

AND THEY HAVEN'T DONE IT.

SO, IF THEY CAN SURVIVE 400 YEARS OF SPANISH AND AMERICAN COLONIZATION, THEN THOSE OF US HERE CAN SURVIVE FOUR YEARS OF DONALD TRUMP'S COLONIZATION.

>> Laura: ARTURO, THANK YOU.

>> Sandoval: YOU BET.