>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY. "

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> OUR COUNTRY IS WINNING AGAIN.

IN FACT, WE'RE WINNING SO MUCH THAT WE REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT.

>> THE STATE OF THE UNION, ACCORDING TO TRUMP.

AS HIS POLL NUMBERS SINK, WE LOOK AT WHAT MIGHT BE NEXT ON THE PRESIDENT'S AGENDA.

> >> THEN, THE DEADLY CONSEQUENCES OF FOREIGN AID CUTS.

DAVID MILLBAND JOINS US.

> >> PLUS -- >> 2026 AND DEFINITELY 2027 WILL BE SETTING YET AGAIN NEW RECORDS WITH ALL THE CHAOS THAT ENTAILS.

>> ENVIRONMENTALIST BILL McKIBBEN TELLS HARI SREENIVASAN THE U. S. IS FAILING THIS CRITICAL MOMENT IN THE FIGHT AGAINST CLIMATE CHANGE.

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>> Announcer: "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON & JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, MONIQUE SCHOEN WARSHAW, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

> >> AND A VERY WARM WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M PAULA NEWTON IN NEW YORK, SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

DONALD TRUMP BEAT HIS OWN RECORD TUESDAY NIGHT, DELIVERING THE LONGEST STATE OF THE UNION SPEECH IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

THE PRESIDENT BOASTED ABOUT HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS, BROUGHT OUT THE U. S. ICE HOCKEY TEAM, AND SLAMMED THE DEMOCRATS FOR, IN HIS WORDS, DESTROYING THE COUNTRY.

BUT ON FUTURE PLANS, HE WAS LIGHT ON SPECIFICS.

>> THE GOLDEN AGE OF AMERICA IS UPON US.

THE REVOLUTION THAT BEGAN IN 1776 HAS NOT ENDED.

IT STILL CONTINUES, BECAUSE THE FLAME OF LIBERTY AND INDEPENDENCE STILL BURNS IN THE HEART OF EVERY AMERICAN PATRIOT, AND OUR FUTURE WILL BE BIGGER, BETTER, BRIGHTER, BOLDER, AND MORE GLORIOUS THAN EVER BEFORE.

>> VIEWERS ALL OVER THE WORLD WERE TUNED IN AS THE U. S. BUILDS UP ITS LARGEST MILITARY PRESENCE IN THE MIDDLE EAST SINCE THE 2003 IRAQ INVASION.

ON IRAN, TRUMP SAID THIS.

>> MY PREFERENCE IS TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM THROUGH DIPLOMACY.

BUT ONE THING IS CERTAIN.

I WILL NEVER ALLOW THE WORLD'S NUMBER ONE SPONSOR OF TERROR, WHICH THEY ARE, BY FAR, TO HAVE A NUCLEAR WEAPON.

CAN'T LET THAT HAPPEN.

>> AS FOR THE DEMOCRATS, VIRGINIA GOVERNOR ABIGAIL SPANBERGER GAVE THE REBUTTAL AND FOCUSED SQUARELY ON WHAT HER PARTY CONSIDERS TRUMP'S WEAKNESS RIGHT NOW, KITCHEN TABLE ISSUES.

WE WANT TO DIG INTO ALL OF THIS WITH OUR GUESTS.

GREG IS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE SOCIETY FOR THE RULE OF LAW, HAVING PREVIOUSLY WORKED, WE WILL NOTE, WORKED VERY CLOSELY, IN FACT, WITH THEN SENATOR MARCO RUBIO.

AND SUSAN GLASSER, A LONG-TIME JOURNALIST AND STAFF WRITER FOR "THE NEW YORKER. "

I WANT TO WELCOME YOU BOTH TO THE PROGRAM, AND WE WILL DIG IN HERE.

SUSAN, I WANT TO BEGIN WITH YOU.

GOLDEN AGE.

TRUMP PAINTED THIS AS A ROARING ECONOMY, AND AS HE CALLS IT, IT'S THE GOLDEN AGE OF AMERICA.

THIS BELIES WHAT THE CNN POLL TELLS US, RIGHT?

IT SHOWS ONLY 31% OF SPEECH WATCHERS HAVE A LOT OF CONFIDENCE THAT HE'LL MAKE THE COST OF LIVING MORE AFFORDABLE, AND 40% HAVE NO CONFIDENCE AT ALL IN ANY OF THAT.

NOW, HOW, SUSAN, DO YOU EXPLAIN THE GAP?

EVEN AMONG A HEAVILY REPUBLICAN AUDIENCE HERE.

>> YEAH, LOOK, I MEAN, BEFORE THE SPEECH, YOU HAD DONALD TRUMP'S PRESS SECRETARY COMING OUT AND SAYING THIS SPEECH WAS GOING TO BE AN EXTENDED CASE MADE BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES FOR WHY HE AND HIS REPUBLICAN PARTY WERE BEST EQUIPPED TO HANDLE THE AFFORDABILITY CRISIS.

AND BY THE WAY, THAT'S THE TERM THAT THE WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY USED, AFFORDABILITY CRISIS.

THE PROBLEM, AS QUICKLY BECAME EVIDENT IN THIS EPIC SPEECH, IS THAT THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF IS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO MAKE A CASE TO AMERICANS FOR HOW HE'S GOING TO HANDLE AN AFFORDABILITY CRISIS THAT HE SIMPLY DOES NOT BELIEVE EXISTS.

AND YOU KNOW, HE SAID THAT IN MANY RECENT SPEECHES AS WELL.

JUST LAST WEEK IN IOWA, HE SAID THAT HE HAD WON ON AFFORDABILITY, AND THERE WAS A TRIUMPHALIST TONE IN TRUMP'S STATE OF THE UNION THAT REALLY UNDERCUT ANY EFFORTS HE MIGHT HAVE MADE.

HE DIDN'T MAKE MANY EFFORTS, AS YOU POINTED OUT.

I THINK AMERICANS ARE LOOKING NOT FOR KIND OF RAH- RAH RHETORIC BUT CONCRETE WAYS IN WHICH THE ADMINISTRATION MIGHT MAKE NEW EFFORTS, MIGHT MAKE NEW PROGRAMS.

YOU DIDN'T HEAR ANY OF THAT.

DONALD TRUMP, ESSENTIALLY, HAS GOVERNED NOT WITH CONGRESS BUT BY EXECUTIVE FIAT AND YOU DIDN'T HEAR HIM SAYING ANYTHING OTHER THAN HE STILL BELIEVES IN THE MAGICAL POWER OF HIS TARIFFS, NOTWITHSTANDING THE SUPREME COURT DECISION THAT THREW THEM OUT.

BUT HE STILL BELIEVES THAT THAT SHOULD BE THE PILLAR OF HIS ECONOMIC POLICY, EVEN THOUGH MANY AMERICANS, IN BOTH PARTIES, THINK THE TARIFFS ARE ONE OF THE REASONS WHY PRICES ARE SO OUT OF CONTROL IN AMERICA, THAT THEY'RE BASICALLY A TAX ON AMERICANS.

SO, TRUMP RISKED SEEMING ALMOST DELUSIONAL AND DISCONNECTED FROM THE FACTS IF HE KEEPS WITH THIS COURSE.

>> AND GETTING TO THAT SUPREME COURT RULING, GREG, DURING THE ADDRESS, THE PRESIDENT LOOKED DIRECTLY AT THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES.

IT WAS A REALITY SHOW MOMENT.

HE CALLED THEIR RECENT RULING AGAINST HIS TARIFFS THAT SUSAN WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT "UNFORTUNATE, DISAPPOINTING. "

WHILE ANNOUNCING, THOUGH, ALTERNATIVES, NOTHING.

LET'S TAKE A LISTEN HERE.

>> DESPITE THE DISAPPOINTING RULING, THESE POWERFUL, COUNTRY-SAVING --IT'S SAVING OUR COUNTRY, THE KIND OF MONEY WE'RE TAKING IN, PEACE-PROTECTING --MANY OF THE WARS I SETTLED WAS BECAUSE OF THE THREAT OF TARIFFS.

I WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SETTLE THEM WITHOUT.

WILL REMAIN IN PLACE UNDER FULLY APPROVED AND TESTED ALTERNATIVE LEGAL STATUTES, AND THEY HAVE BEEN TESTED FOR A LONG TIME.

>> I MEAN, THE JUSTICES ARE SITTING THERE, GREG.

WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE PRESIDENT --HE USED THE STATE OF THE UNION TO SAY, LOOK, I'M GOING TO WORK AROUND THIS COURT, AND I AM WONDERING WHAT'S ON YOUR MIND WHEN YOU HEARD WHAT HE SAID ON FRIDAY?

MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVE LANGUAGE TOWARDS THE SUPREME COURT RULING THAN HE HAD DURING THAT SPEECH.

>> YEAH, THE STATE OF THE UNION REMARKS, TO THE JUSTICES, WERE REALLY TONED DOWN FROM WHAT HE SAID AT THE WHITE HOUSE EARLIER IN THE WEEK WHERE HE SAID THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES, THAT THEIR FAMILIES SHOULD BE DISAPPOINTED IN THEM, AND EVEN SUGGESTED THAT THOSE WHO RULED AGAINST HIM WERE INFLUENCED BY, SOMEHOW, SHADOWY FOREIGN MONEY OR SOMETHING ALONG THESE LINES.

I MEAN, IT WAS A REAL ATTACK ON THE LEGITIMACY AND THE AUTHORITY OF THE COURT, WHICH IS OF A PIECE OF THIS ADMINISTRATION STRATEGY NOW FOR THE WHOLE YEAR OR PLUS, THEY HAVE BEEN IN OFFICE.

THE PRESIDENT AND HIS TOP MEMBERS OF HIS STAFF, CABINET SECRETARIES, HAVE, OVER AND OVER AGAIN, WHEN THE COURTS RULE AGAINST THE WHITE HOUSE, AND THE ADMINISTRATION, SUGGESTED THAT SOMEHOW THE JUDGES WERE CORRUPT, WERE RADICALS, BELONGED TO THE OTHER SIDE.

THIS HAS BEEN HOW THE PRESIDENT TALKS ABOUT THE INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY, WHICH IS A CROWN JEWEL OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL SYSTEM, PART OF THE CHECKS AND BALANCES, AND THE PART OF THE GOVERNMENT THAT'S REALLY DOING ITS JOB TO CHECK A PRESIDENT WHEN HE OVERREACHES.

CONGRESS HAS NOT BEEN DOING THAT.

AS WE SAW LAST NIGHT, THE PRESIDENT HAS VERY LITTLE LEGISLATIVE AGENDA.

HE MENTIONED THINGS HE WANTS TO DO.

A FEW TIMES HE SAID IT WOULD BE NICE IF CONGRESS PASSED A LAW, BUT IT NEED NOT DO IT BECAUSE HE'S GOING TO JUST FOLLOW HIS OWN AUTHORITIES TO AND REALLY BEYOND THE BREAKING POINT.

HE'S NOW TALKING ABOUT NEW TARIFFS ON ANOTHER KIND OF EMERGENCY STATUTE WHERE THERE IS NO REAL EMERGENCY, WHICH ARE --WILL BE, AGAIN, CHALLENGED IN COURT FOR THEIR LEGAL DUBIOUSNESS.

SO, THIS IS WHAT WE'VE COME TO SEE, AND IT'S A CREDIT TO THE JUDICIARY THAT THEY'VE NOT BEEN SWAYED BY THESE ATTACKS FROM THE MOST POWERFUL MAN IN THE WORLD.

>> WELL, HE'S BEEN DOING AWAY WITH A LOT OF THESE RULINGS, REALLY, WITH A FLOURISH, AND DEFYING THE FACTS IN MANY REGARDS.

ANOTHER ISSUE HERE, SUSAN, WOULD BE THAT DURING HIS ADDRESS, HE CLAIMED THAT VOTER CHEATING IS, IN HIS WORDS, RAMPANT.

LISTEN.

>> I'M ASKING YOU TO APPROVE THE SAVE AMERICA ACT.

PLEASE STOP ILLEGAL ALIENS AND OTHERS UNPERMITTED PERSONS FROM VOTING IN OUR SACRED AMERICAN ELECTIONS.

THE CHEATING IS RAMPANT IN OUR ELECTIONS.

IT'S RAMPANT.

WHY WOULD ANYBODY NOT WANT VOTER I. D. ?

ONE REASON.

BECAUSE THEY WANT TO CHEAT.

THERE'S ONLY ONE REASON.

>> YOU KNOW, SUSAN, WE'RE HEADING INTO THE MIDTERMS HERE AT THE END OF THE YEAR.

HOW DO THESE TYPES OF UNFOUNDED CLAIMS, AGAIN, CHALLENGED IN SO MANY JURISDICTIONS AND COURTS, UNFOUNDED, BUT HOW WILL THEY REALLY INFORM VOTERS GOING INTO THESE MIDTERMS?

IT IS ERODING TRUST, IS IT NOT?

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

AND I THINK IT'S --I'M GLAD YOU PLAYED THAT.

I MEAN, IT'S ONE EXAMPLE OF MANY UNTRUTHS THAT UNDERPIN ALMOST ALL OF WHAT TRUMP WAS SAYING IN THE ADDRESS, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVE BECOME TO INURED TO THAT, IT'S IMPORTANT AT THIS POINT TO REMIND PEOPLE THAT A LOT OF WHAT HE WAS SAYING LAST NIGHT, NOT JUST ABOUT VOTER FRAUD THAT DOESN'T EXIST, BUT ABOUT ECONOMIC STATISTICS THAT DON'T EXIST, AND A LOT OF THIS WAS JUST SIMPLY NOT ACCURATE.

BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, RIGHT AFTER THAT, TRUMP LAUNCHED INTO AN ATTACK WHERE HE SAID, BASICALLY, DEMOCRATS CAN NEVER WIN AN ELECTION UNLESS IT'S CHEATING, AND I THINK HE'S ALREADY TOLD US THAT HE WON'T ACCEPT ANY RESULT IN 2026 EXCEPT REPUBLICANS WINNING AS LEGITIMATE, AND I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT REALLY DEEPLY CONCERNS ANYONE WHO'S CONCERNED ABOUT DEMOCRACY IN THE COUNTRY, AND HE'S WILLING TO TAKE ACTIONS, NOT JUST USE WORDS, TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON THAT.

>> YEAH.

WE DON'T HAVE TO REMIND ANYONE HERE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED THE LAST TIME HE DENIED THE OUTCOME OF AN ELECTION.

I MEAN, GREG, THAT OTHER ISSUE THAT HAS PROVEN REALLY SO SUCCESSFUL FOR THE PRESIDENT WAS IMMIGRATION.

THE POLLING SHOWS THAT THE PRESIDENT'S RATINGS ON IMMIGRATION NOW HAVE DROPPED BACK TO HIS FIRST-TERM LOWS.

HE DOUBLED DOWN, THOUGH, ON IMMIGRATION IN THIS SPEECH.

WHY?

I'M WONDERING WHERE YOU BELIEVE AMERICANS ARE.

AND WHEN I SAY AMERICANS, THAT CRUCIAL POCKET OF VOTERS, SUBSTANTIAL, THE INDEPENDENTS, RIGHT?

WHO HAVE CLEARLY, IN RECENT POLLS, SHOWED THAT THEY WANT TO MOVE AWAY FROM THESE ENFORCEMENT TACTICS.

>> YEAH, I THINK THE WHOLE IMMIGRATION ISSUE SHOULD REMIND THE PRESIDENT, SHOULD REMIND ALL OF US, THAT POLICY IS ONLY PART OF GOVERNING.

HOW POLICIES ARE IMPLEMENTED IS A BIG PART OF IT TOO.

AND I THINK THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ELECTED THE PRESIDENT, IN PART, BECAUSE THEY WERE DISSATISFIED WITH DEMOCRATIC POLICIES ON IMMIGRATION.

AND WERE ATTRACTED TO THE PRESIDENT'S PROMISE TO ENFORCE THE LAW, SECURE THE BORDER, AND EVEN START DEPORTING POPULATIONS THAT ARE HERE ILLEGALLY.

THE BORDER SECURITY ISSUE, I THINK, STILL REFLECTS WELL ON THE PRESIDENT, POLLS WELL ON HIM.

THE INTERIOR ENFORCEMENT, THE DEPORTATIONS, MUCH LESS SO.

I THINK WE SEE THAT AMERICANS REALLY WANTED TO PRIORITIZE THE REMOVAL OF PEOPLE WHO HAD COMMITTED OTHER CRIMES WHILE THEY WERE HERE.

THE MOST DANGEROUS OF THIS POPULATION.

AND TO USE MORE JUDGMENT WITH FOLKS WHO ARE NOT A THREAT TO HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED HERE.

AND EVEN BEYOND THAT, EVEN THOSE WHO WERE EAGER FOR BROAD DEPORTATIONS REALLY DID NOT WANT TO SEE THESE KIND OF HEAVY HANDED TACTICS, MASKED AGENTS ON OUR STREETS, THE MILITARIZATION OF URBAN AREAS IN AMERICA.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT ANYBODY VOTED FOR, AND WE'RE SEEING PEOPLE TURN AWAY FROM IT, EVEN PEOPLE WHO ARE, AT ROOT, SYMPATHETIC TO THE IDEA THAT WE NEED TO GET A LOT TOUGHER ON IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT.

THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM FOR THE PRESIDENT.

I THINK WHAT HAPPENED IN MINNESOTA AND THE WAY PEOPLE RESPONDED SHOULD HAVE BEEN A WAKE- UP CALL.

THIS PRESIDENT DOES NOT DO APOLOGIES WELL.

DOES NOT CHANGE COURSE WELL.

BUT IT REALLY COULD HAVE BEEN AN OPPORTUNITY LAST NIGHT FOR HIM TO SAY THAT SOME MISTAKES WERE MADE, WE'RE RECAL IBRATING, WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS IN AN EFFECTIVE WAY THAT WILL RESPECT CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AND MINIMIZE DISRUPTIONS IN THE LIVES OF ORDINARY AMERICANS, AND HE DID NOT DO THAT.

HE DOUBLED DOWN AND PROMISES MORE OF WHAT WE'VE SEEN.

>> AND ON THOSE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, GREG, MOST AMERICANS HOLD DEAR, I WANT TO GET A SENSE FROM YOU, AGAIN, GREG, BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN VERY ACTIVE ON THIS ON SOCIAL MEDIA, THAT THERE'S AN INCREASING SENSE FROM CRITICS OF THIS ADMINISTRATION THAT THOSE CONSTITUTIONAL GUARDRAILS ARE BEING ACTIVELY DISMANTLED, INCLUDING FLAT-OUT IGNORING COURT RULINGS.

I'M WONDERING, IN YOUR OPINION, GREG, ARE WE SEEING A PERMANENT FRACTURING OF THE RULE OF LAW UNDER TRUMP?

OR DO YOU HAVE A MORE RELAXED OPINION TOWARDS THIS?

IT IS AN INSTITUTIONAL STRUCTURE THAT, THROUGH THE COURTS, WILL REMAIN RESILIENT.

>> WELL, I'M WORRIED.

I MEAN, I'M PROFOUNDLY WORRIED.

I THINK THAT A LOT OF THE ROOT CAUSES OF THE PROBLEMS WE'RE SEEING PREDATE TRUMP.

THEY'RE SORT OF WAYS IN WHICH WE, AS AMERICANS, HAVE FORGOTTEN SOME BASIC CIVICS, THE WAY CHECKS AND BALANCES HAVE BEEN ERODED OVER DECADES.

CONGRESS GETTING WEAKER AND WEAKER, THE PRESIDENT GETTING STRONGER AND STRONGER.

THESE ARE REAL PROBLEMS, BUT I THINK WE'VE REACHED A NEW BREAKING POINT WITH TRUMP.

FOR A LOT OF REASONS.

ONE, THE PRESIDENT HAS THREE JOBS IN AMERICA.

TO BE THE HEAD OF HIS PARTY, TO BE THE HEAD OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, AND TO BE THE HEAD OF STATE.

AND THAT LAST ROLE, HE'S CALLED UPON TO BE BIGGER THAN PARTISANSHIP, BIGGER THAN HIMSELF.

HE'S CALLED ON TO SPEAK FOR ALL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND TO GUARD THE CONSTITUTION, UPHOLD ITS BASIC PROMISES AND THIS PRESIDENT HAS SHOWN NO INTEREST IN THAT LAST ROLE.

AND THAT'S A DEEP, DEEP PROBLEM.

HE'S NOT BEING CHECKED BY CONGRESS.

AND HE IS ASSAULTING THE AUTHORITY AND THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE JUDICIARY.

AND WE NEED, AS AMERICANS, TO COME TOGETHER AND INSIST, ONCE AGAIN, 250 YEARS INTO OUR LIFE AS A NATION, ON THE FUNDAMENTAL PROMISES OF OUR CONSTITUTION, ON THOSE CHECKS AND BALANCES, AND I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GONE FOREVER.

I THINK THEY'RE BEING TESTED IN A WAY THEY'VE NOT BEEN TESTED IN GENERATIONS.

AND I REALLY HOPE THAT REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, OVER THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS, CAN COME TOGETHER AND START TALKING ABOUT HOW WE CAN RESTORE CHECKS AND BALANCES AND REALLY PROTECT THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS THAT WE ALL HOLD DEAR.

>> AND SUSAN, YOU KNOW, GREG JUST CALLED IT A NEW BREAKING POINT, BUT YOU KNOW, HE IS MENTIONING BOTH DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS HERE IN TERMS OF THEIR ROLE.

DO YOU SEE, CERTAINLY, A CORROSIVE INFLUENCE RIGHT NOW ON THESE CHECKS AND BALANCES AND ON THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF?

>> OH, LET'S BE --YOU KNOW, YES, ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, I THINK WE HAVE TO JUST BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT WHAT'S THE REALITY IN FRONT OF US RIGHT NOW.

YOU KNOW, AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, IF THERE WEREN'T ALL THESE WEAKNESSES TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF, TRUMP WOULD NOT HAVE COME FROM ANYWHERE.

HE DIDN'T CREATE AMERICAN DIVISIONS, BUT AGAIN, TO BE CLEAR-EYED ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE NEVER HAD A PRESIDENT, IN MY LIFETIME, OR IN ANY OF OUR LIFETIMES, WHO HAVE DONE THE THINGS THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS DONE TO DIRECTLY CHALLENGE THE NORMS, RULES, PRACTICES, AND EVEN LAWS THAT HAVE SHAPED MODERN AMERICAN GOVERNANCE.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN LOOK ON A VARIETY OF FRONTS AND SEE THAT HAPPENING.

I WOULD SAY IT'S THE SWEEPING ASSERTION OF EXECUTIVE AUTHORITY THAT HAS GONE MOSTLY UNCHECKED, ACTUALLY, BY THE SUPREME COURT.

IN FACT, THAT SUPREME COURT DECISION LAST WEEK WAS VERY NOTABLE BECAUSE IT WAS THE FIRST MAJOR DECISION ON THE SUBSTANCE, ON THE MERITS, NOT JUST IN TERMS OF AN EMERGENCY CASE, WHERE THE COURT WAS RULING AGAINST DONALD TRUMP, BUT IT'S THE SAME SUPREME COURT THAT ALSO RULED THAT A PRESIDENT HAS NEARLY UNLIMITED IMMUNITY, AND THAT WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 2024 ELECTION, IN A WAY, A PRECURSOR OF THAT, TRUMP HIMSELF HAS CITED THAT AS A REASON WHY HE BASICALLY CAN GOVERN IN A WAY THAT'S MUCH CLOSER TO A KING OR AN AUTOCRATIC RULER.

NUMBER ONE.

NUMBER TWO, BYPASSING CONGRESS.

THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

OUR CHECKS AND BALANCES AREN'T FUNCTIONING ANYMORE RIGHT NOW UNDER OUR REPUBLICAN-CONTROLLED CONGRESS WITH TRUMP IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

THIS HAS PUT THE WHOLE SYSTEM OUT OF WHACK.

AND THE THIRD THING I WOULD POINT OUT IS A SWEEPING ASSAULT ON DISSENT, AND WEAPONIZING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AGAINST THOSE WHO STAND UP TO AND DISAGREE WITH DONALD TRUMP, ATTEMPTING TO PUT MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN JAIL FOR SPEECH.

ATTEMPTING TO PUT THE CITIZENS OF MINNESOTA, AMERICAN CITIZENS, IN JAIL OR BEATING THEM UP BECAUSE THEY WERE TRYING TO BEAR WITNESS TO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ATTACKS ON THEIR NEIGHBORS.

THIS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT THING THAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW AND IT'S NOT AMERICAN.

>> GREG, YOU KNOW, WE NOTED THAT, LOOK, YOU WORKED WITH MARCO RUBIO.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS FRACTURING, THIS CORROSIVE NATURE OF CHECKS AND BALANCES, OF THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF, YOU KNOW, I'VE OFTEN PUT TO PEOPLE AND SAID, LOOK, A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT COULD LEARN FROM THIS SITUATION AS WELL, AND THE NEXT TIME THERE IS A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT, GREG, DON'T YOU THINK THAT PERSON AS WELL COULD USE SOME OF THE PRECEDENT SET BY THIS ADMINISTRATION?

AND WHEN I MENTION SOMEONE LIKE MARCO RUBIO, WHO MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE HE WILL RUN IN THE NEXT ELECTION, DO YOU HAVE ANY CONFIDENCE THAT SOMEONE LIKE THAT, AS SEEING THAT THE CHECKS AND BALANCES ARE DISMANTLED, DO YOU HAVE ANY CONFIDENCE, YOU KNOW, HE WILL ELECT TO PUT THOSE CHECKS AND BALANCES - -TO ADHERE TO THOSE CHECKS AND BALANCES ANYMORE WHEN HE SEES WHAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT DID?

>> WELL, I MEAN, THIS IS THE PROBLEM OF EVER- EXPANDING EXECUTIVE POWER, WHICH WE'VE BEEN ON A COURSE NOW FOR DECADES.

A PRESIDENT COULDN'T GET ELECTED EVEN WITH THE BEST OF INTENTIONS AND WANT TO USE THE POWER TO ITS FULLEST, AND THAT POWER KEEPS GETTING BIGGER AND BIGGER.

AND OBVIOUSLY, THAT OPENS THE DOOR TO A PRESIDENT WITH BAD INTENTIONS, USING THESE POWERS FOR ILL.

AND IT'S REALLY, REALLY HARD TO GET A PRESIDENT OF ANY PARTY, OF ANY IDEOLOGY, OF ANY KIND OF CHARACTER TO DECLINE TO USE POWERS THAT SEEM AVAILABLE TO THEM.

SO, ABSOLUTELY, I MEAN, WHEN I SPEAK TO MY CONSERVATIVE FRIENDS ALL THE TIME, TALKING ABOUT HOW THIS PRESIDENT IS TRYING TO GOVERN BY EMERGENCY DECREE ON A RANGE OF SUBJECTS, JUST IMAGINE WHAT A DEMOCRAT MIGHT DO WITH THAT, WITH CLIMATE EMERGENCIES OR GUN VIOLENCE EMERGENCIES OR WHATEVER THE ISSUE IS THAT A REPUBLICAN VOTER MIGHT CARE ABOUT AND WORRY ABOUT WHAT DEMOCRATS MIGHT DO.

THESE KINDS OF POLICY CHANGES SHOULD RELY IN THE HANDS OF CONGRESS.

AND AGAIN, IT'S VERY, VERY HARD TO GET A PRESIDENT TO REFRAIN FROM USING POWER.

SO, WHAT WE NEED IS A CONGRESS DOING ITS JOB TO SAY NO AND TO PUSH BACK ON A PRESIDENT WHEN THEY EXCEED THEIR AUTHORITY AND THAT'S JUST NOT WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING IN OUR COUNTRY FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

AND WE ALL REALLY NEED, AND I HOPE THAT THIS -- THE LESSONS OF THIS YEAR SHOULD REALLY WAKE PEOPLE UP TO THAT REALITY ACROSS THE SPECTRUM.

AND YEAH, I MEAN, MINNESOTA WAS, I THINK, REALLY CLARIFIED A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS WE'VE SEEN IN THIS ADMINISTRATION.

YOU HAD VIOLATIONS OF THE FIRST, SECOND, FOURTH, TENTH, AND OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS.

>> THE LIST IS LONG.

SUSAN, BOTH YOU AND GREG MENTIONED, REALLY, CONGRESS HERE AND THEIR ROLE.

WHEN IT TURNS TO ISSUES LIKE IRAN, THE PRESIDENT DIDN'T SAY MUCH IN THE STATE OF THE UNION, ONLY MENTIONING HIS PREFERENCE FOR DIPLOMACY.

CONGRESS HAS NOT WEIGHED IN ON ANY MILITARY ACTION HERE.

WHAT DOES THE CONSTITUTIONAL RISK OF THE ADMINISTRATION CONTINUING THIS BUILD-UP THAT WE SEE AT THIS HOUR WITHOUT A FORMAL AUTHORIZATION?

>> YEAH, EXACTLY, I MEAN, LOOK, OVER DECADES, CONGRESS HAS REALLY WALKED AWAY FROM THE AUTHORITY THAT IT HAS UNDER THE WAR POWERS ACT.

PRESIDENTS DISPUTE THAT.

BUT YOU DID SEE THE ADMINISTRATION BRIEFING KEY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS BEFORE THE SPEECH ABOUT IRAN YESTERDAY.

MANY OF THE DEMOCRATIC LEADERS WHO CAME OUT OF THAT SAID THEY TOOK AWAY A CLEAR IMPRESSION THAT SOME MILITARY ACTION MIGHT BE IMMINENT.

AND AGAIN, TO THIS POINT ABOUT DONALD TRUMP DOESN'T EVEN SEEM TO FEEL COMPELLED TO MAKE HIS CASE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, I WAS REALLY STRUCK BY WHAT HE DID SAY ABOUT IRAN IN THAT ADDRESS.

ESSENTIALLY, HE SAID, WE MIGHT NEED TO GO TO WAR TO OBLITERATE AN IRANIAN NUCLEAR PROGRAM THAT, BY THE WAY, WE'VE ALREADY OBLITERATED.

AND ALSO, WE WOULD LIKE TO MAKE AN IRANIAN NUCLEAR DEAL IN ORDER TO AVOID THAT WAR THAT IS SIMILAR TO THE NUCLEAR DEAL THAT DONALD TRUMP PULLED OUT OF AND GOT RID OF IN 2018.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S VERY HARD ON THAT BASIS FOR THERE TO BE ANY REAL PUBLIC UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT'S HAPPENING, NEVER MIND SUPPORT FOR IT.

TRUMP HAS SENT A VAST ARMADA OF AIR AND SEA POWER TO THE REGION, AND I THINK WHAT I'M HEARING FROM EXPERTS IS THAT DEPLOYING THAT KIND OF A FORCE GENERALLY MEANS THAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT.

YOU KNOW, DOES DONALD TRUMP HAVE THE STOMACH FOR FULL- FLEDGED CONFLICT IN THE MIDDLE EAST?

TO ME, HE PREFERS MORE THE QUICK MILITARIZED DISPLAY OF FORCE AND THEN THE EASY DECLARATION OF VICTORY.

>> YEAH, AND AGAIN, FROM WHAT WE KNOW SO FAR, CONGRESS WILL NOT BE GETTING A WORD IN ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

GREG, SUSAN, GRATEFUL TO BOTH OF YOU.

THANKS SO MUCH.

APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

> >> AID GROUPS ARE RINGING ALARM BELLS, WARNING THAT IN 2026, MARGINALIZED CIVILIANS ARE PAYING THE PRICE FOR A WORLD OF DEEPENING CONFLICT AND SHRINKING RELIEF BUDGETS.

AND IT'S NOT JUST THE UNITED STATES SLASHING FOREIGN ASSISTANCE NOW.

THE UNITED KINGDOM, GERMANY, CANADA, AND OTHER DEVELOPED NATIONS ALSO MADE AID CUTS, WHICH ARE SET TO TAKE EFFECT THIS YEAR AND NEXT, COMPOUNDING THE IMPACT.

NOW, THE FUNDING CRISIS COMES AT AN ACUTE MOMENT, PARTICULARLY IN THE WEST BANK AND GAZA WHERE, BY SUNDAY, DOZENS OF AID GROUPS COULD SEE THEIR OPERATIONS RESTRICTED BY ISRAEL DUE TO NEW REGISTRATION REQUIREMENTS.

THE INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE IS ONE OF THOSE ORGANIZATIONS, AND ITS CEO, DAVID MILIBAND, JOINS US NOW.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

AND WE DO WANT TO START WITH THIS QUICKLY APPROACHING DEADLINE FOR AID AGENCIES WORKING IN GAZA AND THE WEST BANK.

YOU KNOW, WE JUST EXPLAINED ISRAEL IS REWRITING THE RULES OF HUMANITARIAN AID, CRUCIALLY, THE OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES, YOU KNOW, ACCORDING TO THE IRC, IS RANKED SECOND IN THE EMERGENCY WATCH LIST.

I'M WONDERING, HOW WILL THESE NEW RULES AFFECT THE IRC'S WORK IN GAZA AND THE WEST BANK?

>> GOOD EVENING, PAULA, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR INTEREST IN THESE ISSUES.

GAZA IS INDEED ONE OF THE HUMANITARIAN CRISES THAT WE HIGHLIGHT IN OUR EMERGENCY WATCH LIST, WHICH HAS THE TOP 20 HUMANITARIAN CRISES OF 2026.

IN TOTAL, 250 MILLION PEOPLE NEED HELP FROM AID AGENCIES LIKE THE INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE, AND AS YOU SAY, GAZA IS NUMBER TWO.

WE'RE WAITING TO HEAR FROM THE ISRAELI AUTHORITIES ABOUT HOW THEY PROPOSE TO DEAL WITH OUR APPLICATION TO REGISTER.

WE, ALONG WITH A RANGE OF OTHER AID AGENCIES HAVE FILED OUR PAPERS IN THE CORRECT WAY.

WE'VE EXPLAINED WHAT WE DO.

WE'VE EXPLAINED HOW WE ARE POLITICALLY NEUTRAL AND IMPARTIAL.

THAT WE TREAT PEOPLE ON THE BASIS OF NEED, AND WE'VE EXPLAINED HOW WE FOLLOW, VERY CAREFULLY, ALL KINDS OF PROTOCOLS THAT ARE APPLIED AROUND THE WORLD.

AND SO, WE'RE WAITING TO HEAR WHETHER OUR REGISTRATION HAS BEEN ACCEPTED.

IT'S IMPORTANT THAT IT IS, BECAUSE WE ARE A VITAL PART OF SUSTAINING LIFE AND LIVELIHOOD IN PLACES LIKE GAZA.

OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE AN INTERNATIONAL PRESENCE IN 330 FIELD SITES IN 30 COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD, AND NEEDS HAVE RARELY BEEN GREATER.

SO, IT'S IMPORTANT NOT JUST IN GAZA AND THE WEST BANK, BUT ELSEWHERE IN THESE HOT SPOTS OF HUMANITARIAN NEED, THE AID AGENCIES ARE ABLE TO DO THEIR WORK IN A PROFESSIONAL AND APPROPRIATE WAY.

>> AND WE WILL GET TO SOME OF THOSE OTHER HOT SPOTS IN A MOMENT.

I DO WANT TO STICK, THOUGH, WITH WHAT IS GOING ON, ESPECIALLY WITH THE CEASEFIRE AND THE PLANS TO OBVIOUSLY HAVE SOME KIND OF A DURABLE PEACE IN DEVELOPMENT IN THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES AND GAZA.

TO THAT END, YOUR FORMER BOSS, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER TONY BLAIR, IS INVOLVED IN PRESIDENT TRUMP'S BOARD OF PEACE.

AT THE WORLD ECONOMIC FORUM IN DAVOS, WE HEARD THE BOARD'S PLAN FOR GAZA.

IT INCLUDED HOTEL TOWERS, HOUSING, YOU KNOW, LEISURE COMPLEXES.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE PLAN AS YOU'VE SEEN IT SO FAR?

AND WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE IT MEANS FOR PALESTINIANS THEMSELVES IN GAZA?

>> I THINK THE MOST OBVIOUS AND IMPORTANT THING TO SAY IS THAT THOSE PLANS ARE A VERY, VERY LONG WAY FROM THE REALITIES OF DAILY LIFE FOR TWO MILLION PEOPLE IN GAZA STATE.

TODAY.

ANY SENSIBLE PERSON WOULD WELCOME THE CEASEFIRE THAT WAS AGREED.

HOWEVER, IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT THAT SINCE THE CEASEFIRE WAS AGREED FOUR MONTHS AGO, 600 PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED IN ACTION IN GAZA.

AND I CAN REPORT THAT WHILE THE WORST EXCESSES OF STARVATION, OF MALNUTRITION HAVE NOW RECEDED, THERE REMAIN ENORMOUS NEEDS, ESPECIALLY IN HEALTH AND OTHER AREAS THAT ARE VITAL TO THE SUSTENANCE OF LIFE AND LIVELIHOOD.

WE WORK ON WATER AND SANITATION ISSUES, ON HEALTH ISSUES AND ON CHILD PROTECTION.

THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF OUR WORK.

AND THE NEEDS REMAIN VERY GREAT INDEED, AND IT'S VITAL THAT THEY ARE ADDRESSED.

THEY ARE SMALL STEPS TOWARDS THE KIND OF LONG-TERM VISION THAT WAS ESTABLISHED OR THAT WAS SET OUT, NOT JUST BY THE REPRESENTATIVES ON, I THINK, THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE OF THE BOARD OF PEACE, NOT THE MAIN BOARD OF PEACE, BUT ALSO BY THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE 15 PALESTINIAN REPRESENTATIVES WHO ARE OBVIOUSLY CRITICAL TO THE ADMINISTRATION OF LIFE IN GAZA.

>> IN TERMS OF MR.

BLAIR'S INVOLVEMENT, YOU MAKE CLEAR THERE IS A LOT THAT HAS TO HAPPEN BEFORE ANYTHING THAT THE BOARD OF PEACE SETS OUT COMES TO FRUITION.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO HIM?

HAVE YOU SPOKEN TO HIM, AND WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF HIS INVOLVEMENT IN THIS?

>> I SAW TONY IN DAVOS.

HE'S ON THIS U. N. SANCTIONED -- I MEAN, U. N. APPROPRIATELY MANDATED, RATHER THAN SANCTIONED, SECURITY COUNCIL, WHICH IS ABOUT THE RESTORATION OF LIFE AND LIVELIHOOD IN GAZA.

IT'S VITAL AS A FIRST STEP THAT HUMANITARIAN AID IS ABLE TO FLOW, THAT HUMANITARIAN AGENCIES LIKE THE IRC ARE ABLE TO DO OUR WORK THERE.

AND I THINK THAT'S THE FIRST STEP.

OBVIOUSLY, THE LONGER TERM DEPENDS ON A WHOLE SERIES OF POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENTS THAT ANYONE WOULD WISH TO SEE BUT ARE STILL A LONG WAY OFF.

>> I DO WANT TO GET, NOW, TO THIS EMERGENCY WATCH LIST.

IT HIGHLIGHTS 20 COUNTRIES, MOST AT RISK OF NEW OR ORSENED HUMANITARIAN EMERGENCIES.

MORE THAN HALF OF THE LISTED COUNTRIES ARE AFRICAN ONES AND CONFLICTS ARE ALSO AT RECORD HIGHS SINCE WORLD WAR II.

NOW, THE IRC IS NOW SOUNDING THE ALARM OVER WHAT YOU DESCRIBE AS A NEW WORLD DISORDER.

CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH THAT AND WHAT IT MEANS?

>> YES, I'D LIKE TO DO THAT.

THIS ANALYSIS BASED ON 75 DIFFERENT QUANTITATIVE AND QUALITATIVE INDICATORS OF HUMANITARIAN NEED IS VERY MUCH DATA-BASED, BUT IT ALSO DRAWS OUT BIGGER THEMES.

AND THE BIGGEST THEME IS THAT THE NEW WORLD DISORDER THAT WE'RE SEEING IN CONFLICT ZONES AROUND THE WORLD IS DRIVEN BY THREE FACTORS.

THE FIRST IS A DECLINE IN INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION AND A REAL CRISIS OF DIPLOMACY.

THERE ARE 60 WARS GOING ON AROUND THE WORLD AT THE MOMENT.

SECONDLY, THERE IS A TRAMPLING ON THE RIGHTS OF CIVILIANS CAUGHT UP IN CONFLICT BETWEEN A 50 AND 100,000 CIVILIANS WERE KILLED IN CONFLICT LAST YEAR, AND YOU'RE MORE LIKELY TO BE KILLED IN CONFLICT AS A CIVILIAN THAN IF YOU'RE A SOLDIER.

THIRDLY, THERE IS INCREASING PROFITEERING FROM CONFLICT, AND THE CASE STUDY OF THIS IS THE TOP OF THE WATCH LIST, SUDAN, THE LARGEST HUMANITARIAN CRISIS THIS CENTURY, 30 MILLION PEOPLE IN HUMANITARIAN NEED, AND THERE'S PROFITEERING FROM CONFLICT BECAUSE OF THE GOLD TRADE THAT IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF SUDAN'S ECONOMY.

AND THESE THREE FEATURES ARE DRIVING THIS NEW WORLD DISORDER THAT WE DIAGNOSED AND THAT IS SO DANGEROUS FOR CIVILIANS WHO DON'T JUST HAVE THE MORAL RIGHTS TO STAY ALIVE.

THEY HAVE LEGAL RIGHTS OR THEY'RE MEANT TO HAVE LEGAL RIGHTS IN CONFLICT TO AID AND ALSO TO CONTINUED LIVELIHOOD BECAUSE THE TARGETING OF CIVILIANS THAT WE'RE SEEING IN CONFLICT IS COMPLETELY CONTRARY TO INTERNATIONAL LAW, AS WELL AS TO MORALITY.

>> I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, AND YET, YOU KNOW BETTER THAN I THAT JUST TO SPIN MORE THAN A YEAR NOW SINCE USAID WAS SHUTTERED.

OTHER COUNTRIES ARE FOLLOWING SUIT.

THE NUMBERS ARE HARD TO WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU JUXTAPOSE THEM AGAINST THE PROGRESS THAT HAD BEEN MADE FOR SO MANY DECADES.

ACCORDING TO A NEW LANCET STUDY, THESE COULD LEAD TO 9.

4 MILLION ADDITIONAL DEATHS BY 2030, INCLUDING 2.

5 MILLION CHILDREN AGED UNDER 5.

I MEAN, HOW DO THESE STARK NUMBERS TRANSLATE ON THE GROUND?

I KNOW YOU'VE SEEN IT FOR YOURSELF, AND I KNOW YOU'RE TRYING TO DO WORK-AROUNDS AT IRC, BUT THIS MUST BE DEVASTATING, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU SEE THE HEALTH STATISTICS GOING BACKWARDS.

>> YEAH, DEVASTATING IS A VERY GOOD WORD TO USE, AND YOU'RE RIGHT TO PUT THIS IN HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE.

FOR, REALLY, DECADES NOW, FOUR DECADES, INDICATORS LIKE CHILD MORTALITY HAVE BEEN GOING DOWN.

SHOCKINGLY, THE GATES FOUNDATION NOW REPORTS THAT CHILD MORTALITY RATES IN 2025 STARTED TO GO UP.

AND THAT'S AN INDICATOR OF QUITE HOW DEVASTATING THIS SITUATION IS.

THE COMBINATION OF VERY HIGH LEVELS OF NEED, 250 MILLION PEOPLE IN HUMANITARIAN NEED, AND AID CUTS FROM THE MAJORITY OF TRADITIONAL DONOR COUNTRIES, NO AID CUTS FROM THE EUROPEAN UNION, I'M PLEASED TO SAY.

NO AID CUTS FROM DENMARK EITHER, I'M PLEASED TO SAY, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT TO HIGHLIGHT THE OTHER COUNTRIES, INCLUDING THE U. S. , BUT NOT ONLY THE U. S. , THAT HAVE REDUCED THEIR AID.

SO, YES, IT IS DEVASTATING.

I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING TO MITIGATE THE DAMAGE.

TWO MILLION INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE CLIENTS HAVE LOST ACCESS TO AID ENTIRELY AS A RESULT OF THE CUTS.

FOR EXAMPLE, THAT'S 300,000 KIDS IN AFGHANISTAN NO LONGER GETTING EDUCATION, BOYS AND GIRLS.

BUT WE'RE TRYING TO MITIGATE THAT IN TWO WAYS.

FIRST OF ALL, WE'RE SAYING THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE FOCUS ON WHAT AID THAT'S LEFT IN FRAGILE AND CONFLICT STATES WHERE THE MAJORITY OF EXTREMELY POOR PEOPLE LIVE, SUDAN, GAZA, GOOD EXAMPLES OF THAT.

SECONDLY, WE'RE LEADING THE DRIVE FOR AID INNOVATION.

JUST TODAY, WE'RE USING A. I. TO DIAGNOSE MPOX IN THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO.

WE'RE USING A. I. TO ANTICIPATE CLIMATE SHOCKS SO WE'RE ABLE TO PREPARE COMMUNITIES.

INNOVATION IN THE AID SECTOR THAT'S NEEDED AS WELL AS THE DIRECTION OF WHAT RESOURCES EXIST TO WHERE THE NEEDS ARE GREATEST.

>> I TAKE YOUR POINT ABOUT THE EU, AND YET, WE HAVE ARTICULATED HERE ON THIS PROGRAM JUST HOW SIGNIFICANT THE USAID CUTS HAVE BEEN.

THE UK, AT ONE TIME, INCLUDING WHEN YOU SERVED IN THE GOVERNMENT, WAS A STABLE AID PROVIDER.

WE'RE A YEAR ON FROM PRIME MINISTER KEIR STARMER ANNOUNCING BRITAIN'S AID BUDGET WOULD BE SLASHED BY UP TO 40%.

I MEAN, THE GOVERNMENT SAYS IT NEEDS TO INCREASE DEFENSE SPENDING.

I DO WANT TO READ TO YOU, THOUGH, A JOINT STATEMENT, 93 LEADERS FROM THE UK'S INTERNATIONAL NGO SECTOR WROTE, AND THEY SAY, "OVER THE PAST YEAR, WE HAVE WITNESSED FIRSTHAND THE CONSEQUENCES OF THESE SHORT-SIGHTED CUTS, HAVE LEFT MORE PEOPLE WITHOUT ESSENTIAL ACCESS TO WATER, SANITATION, AND SHELTER.

THEY HAVE ALSO LEFT US VULNERABLE TO A WORLD WITH MORE DISEASE, CONFLICT, AND CLIMATE DISASTERS. "

I AM VERY CURIOUS TO GET YOUR TAKE.

MR.

MILIBAND, I COVERED YOU AS A POLITICIAN IN THE UK, IN THOSE YEARS.

I'M NOT SURE IF YOU WERE IN CABINET TODAY, WHAT YOU WOULD BE SAYING ABOUT THESE CUTS, BUT YOU KNOW BETTER THAN I DO THAT THEY DO RESONATE WITH PEOPLE IN THE UK WHO THEY THEMSELVES BELIEVE THAT THESE TOUGH DECISIONS HAVE TO BE MADE.

>> YEAH, I WOULD OBVIOUSLY BE DEPLORING THE CUTS, AND I HAVE DONE SO PUBLICLY AS WELL AS PRIVATELY.

I THINK THAT THE INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE IS ONE OF THE SIGNATORIES TO THE LETTER THAT YOU READ OUT, AND CERTAINLY, IT'S MY CONTENTION THAT IT'S NOT JUST MORALLY RIGHT TO MAKE SURE THAT AID REACHES THOSE PEOPLE IN NEED.

IT'S ALSO STRATEGICALLY SMART.

>> BUT THAT ARGUMENT DOESN'T SEEM TO HOLD WATER WITH THIS LABOR GOVERNMENT, AND I'M SURE YOU'VE SPOKEN TO THEM.

>> NO, YOU'RE RIGHT.

SO, MAYBE I SHOULD BE BETTER AT ARGUING OR BETTER AT CONVINCING OR BETTER AT PERSUADING.

BUT I THINK THAT IT REMAINS A VERY IMPORTANT ARGUMENT.

THE WORLD'S ACTUALLY MORE CONNECTED THAN EVER BEFORE.

WE MAKE THE POINT IN THE EMERGENCY WATCH LIST THAT THERE WERE 57 LARGE MEASLES OUTBREAKS IN THE WORLD LAST YEAR.

THE PROBLEMS THAT START IN PLACES LIKE SUDAN, THEY DON'T END IN PLACES LIKE SUDAN.

THEY MOVE.

BECAUSE PEOPLE MOVE.

AT ONE POINT, ABOUT NINE MONTHS AGO, A LARGE PROPORTION OF THOSE PEOPLE TRYING TO CROSS THE ENGLISH CHANNEL FROM FRANCE, FROM CALAIS TO DOVER WERE FROM SUDAN.

THIS IS A CONNECTED WORLD, AND THAT'S WHY I THINK IT'S SMART --IT WOULD BE SMART, AS WELL AS RIGHT, TO SUSTAIN AID BUDGETS.

OF COURSE, DEVELOPMENT --THE DEVELOPMENT CONTEXT HAS CHANGED A LOT IN THE 30 --THE LAST 30 YEARS.

THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OF COUNTRIES DEPENDS ON MARKETS, GOOD GOVERNANCE, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE WORLD'S POOREST PEOPLE, IT'S JUST WRONG, AS WELL AS MISGUIDED, NOT TO HELP THEM.

>> I ONLY HAVE ABOUT 30 SECONDS LEFT, BUT IN TERMS OF WHAT WILL RESONATE IN A COUNTRY LIKE THE UK, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE RISE OF REFORM AND THE DEMONIZATION OF IMMIGRANTS IS CONNECTED TO THIS IN SOME WAY?

>> NO, I THINK THE CRITICAL THING THAT WE HAVE TO GET ACROSS TO PEOPLE IS HOW MUCH DIFFERENCE THEY CAN MAKE.

I CAN TELL YOU THAT 24 MILLION DOSES OF VACCINE HAVE BEEN DELIVERED, 6 COUNTRIES, BY THE INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE LAST YEAR AT $2.

20 A SHOT, SO ABOUT 1.

80 POUNDS A SHOT.

SO, WE HAVE A VERY GOOD VALUE FOR MONEY PROPOSITION, AND I THINK PART OF THE JOB OF THOSE OF US IN THE AID SECTOR IS TO DO A MUCH BETTER JOB OF CHALLENGING THE MISPERCEPTIONS ABOUT AID AND SHOWING HOW MUCH DIFFERENCE IT CAN MAKE.

I HOPE THAT FITS WITHIN YOUR 30 SECONDS.

>> YOU DID A BRILLIANT JOB, AS I'M SURE YOU'LL HAVE TO CONTINUE DOING IN ORDER TO REALLY DO THE ADVOCACY THAT YOU HAVE BEEN DOING FOR SO MANY YEARS NOW, AND I HEAR YOU.

WE HAVE ALL SEEN FIRSTHAND WHAT A FEW PENNIES --LITERALLY PENNIES - -CAN DO TO THE HEALTH OF CHILDREN AROUND THE WORLD.

DAVID MILIBAND, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

> >> NOW, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS FACING PUSHBACK OVER THEIR REPEAL OF THE 2009 ENDANGERMENT FINDING, WHICH RECOGNIZED THE HARMFUL EFFECTS OF GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS ON THE ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC HEALTH AND LED TO THE REGULATION OF POLLUTION.

MORE THAN A DOZEN MAJOR ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS HAVE NOW FILED LAWSUITS, WHILE CRITICS HAVE DESCRIBED THE MOVE AS SHAMEFUL, INCLUDING ENVIRONMENTALIST BILL M cKIBBEN, WHO VIEWS THIS AS EVIDENCE OF AMERICA'S "DESCENT INTO "IDIOCRACY"" AND HE JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN TO DISCUSS THE IMPACT OF THIS BLOW TO U. S. CLIMATE POLICY.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AGAIN.

YOU ARE SOMEONE WHO'S TRACKED CLIMATE ISSUES AND BEEN ACTIVE IN THIS FOR DECADES NOW, AND IF YOU COULD JUST GIVE US AN IDEA OF WHERE WE ARE KIND OF IN THIS ARC OF TRYING TO FIGHT CLIMATE CHANGE OR MITIGATE THE EFFECTS.

>> WELL, FIRST ANSWER IS, WE'RE GETTING CLOBBERED.

THE TEMPERATURE JUST KEEPS RISING.

THE LAST THREE YEARS HAVE BEEN THE HOTTEST YEARS WE'VE EVER RECORDED.

THE NEWS IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS IS THAT IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE HEADED INTO A NEW EL NINO CYCLE, AND PERHAPS A VIOLENT ONE.

IF THAT'S EVEN CLOSE TO TRUE, THEN 2026 AND DEFINITELY 2027 WILL BE SETTING YET AGAIN NEW RECORDS WITH ALL THE CHAOS THAT ENTAILS.

THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT WE HAVE A TOOL TO SLOW DOWN THIS RISE IN TEMPERATURE.

THE RAPID SURGE IN CHEAP, CLEAN ENERGY THAT, IN MOST OF THE WORLD, IS LEADING TO A VERY RAPID ENERGY TRANSITION.

THE BAD NEWS IS THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS DECIDED NOT ONLY DOES IT NOT WANT TO TAKE PART IN THAT ENERGY TRANSITION, IT WANTS TO TRY AND SLOW IT DOWN.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE MORE POSSIBILITY THAN WE HAVE HAD BEFORE, AND WE'RE NOT SEIZING THAT POSSIBILITY WITH BOTH HANDS.

>> JUST RECENTLY, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ROLLED BACK ITS ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY'S --OUR ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY'S ENDANGERMENT FINDING, AND THAT WAS A DECISION THAT YOU SAID IS EVIDENCE OF AMERICA'S DESCENT INTO "IDIOCRACY" AND NOW THERE'S ALREADY LAWSUITS KIND OF CHALLENGING THAT, BUT FOR MEMBERS OF OUR AUDIENCE WHO ARE UNFAMILIAR WITH IT, WHY IS IT SO SIGNIFICANT?

>> WELL, LET'S JUST SAY WHAT IT IS.

IT WAS THE EPA DECIDING, ALMOST 20 YEARS AGO, THAT CARBON DIOXIDE IN THE ATMOSPHERE POSED A DANGER TO HUMANS.

THIS WAS A --THEY WERE LATE TO THE GAME 20 YEARS AGO IN FIGURING THIS OUT.

FOR 40 YEARS, SCIENTISTS HAVE BEEN TELLING US THAT THE WORST THING THAT HUMANS HAVE EVER DONE IS CHANGE THE CHEMISTRY OF THE ATMOSPHERE AND HENCE HEAT THE EARTH.

FINALLY, THE EPA RECOGNIZED THIS, WHICH ALLOWED THE U. S. TO BEGIN TO TAKE AT LEAST MODEST POLICY STEPS TO START REPLACING SOME COAL-FIRED POWER PLANTS WITH GAS-FIRED POWER PLANTS, TO SPUR THE DEVELOPMENT OF EVs.

ALL THE THINGS THAT BEGAN THIS ENERGY TRANSITION, ALBEIT SLOWLY.

BUT ALSO, ALL THE THINGS THAT ANGERED THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY AND THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY IS IN OUR COUNTRY POLITICALLY POWERFUL.

YOU'LL REMEMBER CANDIDATE TRUMP TELLING HEADS OF THE OIL INDUSTRY THAT IF THEY GAVE HIM A BILLION DOLLARS IN CAMPAIGN DONATIONS, THEY WOULD GET ANYTHING THEY WANTED.

THEY ENDED UP BETWEEN DONATIONS AND ADVERTISING AND LOBBYING, SPENDING ABOUT HALF A BILLION IN THE LAST ELECTION CYCLE.

AND CLEARLY, THAT WAS ENOUGH, NOT ONLY HAVE WE SHUT DOWN WIND FARMS THAT WERE 90% COMPLETE, PUT HUGE SWATHS OF THE COUNTRY OFF- LIMITS TO SOLAR PANELS, WE'VE ALSO NOW ISSUED THIS PROCLAMATION THAT PHYSICS IS WRONG.

LOOK, THERE IS NO QUESTION ABOUT THE DANGER POSED BY CARBON DIOXIDE.

EVERY SCIENTIFIC ORGANIZATION, EVERY PRESIDENT OF THE GLOBAL WARMING ERA PRIOR TO TRUMP, INDEED, ALL THE BIG OIL COMPANIES HAVE LONG SINCE CONCEDED THAT THIS IS BASIC PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL FACT.

ONLY NOW, IN OUR UPSIDE-DOWN WORLD, ARE WE OFFICIALLY INSISTING THAT IT'S NOT A PROBLEM.

>> YOU KNOW, THE HEAD OF THE EPA, ADMINISTRATOR LEE ZELDEN, HE SAID THAT THE ENDANGERMENT FINDING "LED TO TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN REGULATIONS THAT STRANGLED ENTIRE SECTORS OF THE UNITED STATES ECONOMY, INCLUDING THE AMERICAN AUTO INDUSTRY. "

DOES HE HAVE A POINT?

>> NO.

WHAT'S GOING TO KILL OFF THE AMERICAN AUTOMOBILE INDUSTRY, AND I'M AFRAID IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN RELATIVELY SHORT ORDER, IS OUR DECISION TO, UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, BYPASS WHAT THE REAL REVOLUTION IN CARS IS.

AND THAT'S ELECTRIC VEHICLES.

AROUND THE WORLD NOW, THE CHINESE ARE EATING OUR LUNCH.

IN FACT, WE'RE CATERING THE LUNCH THAT THEY'RE DEVOURING BY OUR PIG-HEADEDNESS HERE.

ALL OF A SUDDEN, DETROIT IS NO LONGER THE CENTER OF THE AUTO INDUSTRY.

IT'S THREE CITIES IN CHINA WHOSE NAMES I FIND IT DIFFICULT TO PRONOUNCE.

THEY'RE PRODUCING MORE CARS AND BETTER CARS, AND OUR ONLY HOPE IS TRYING TO COMPETE HEAD- ON WITH THEM, NOT PRETENDING THAT THEY'RE NOT NOW ON THE FOREFRONT OF AUTOMOBILE TECHNOLOGY.

>> IS THERE A CULTURAL GAP HERE?

I MEAN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS OF EV ADOPTION RATES AND WHO'S BUYING ELECTRIC VEHICLES, AND WHETHER IT'S SOUTH KOREA, WHETHER IT'S, OF COURSE, CHINA, NORWAY, I MEAN, IT SEEMS LIKE MARKET AUDIENCES, CUSTOMERS, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, ARE CHOOSING ELECTRIC VEHICLES, AND HERE, THAT'S NOT THE CASE, EVEN WITH SUBSIDIES THAT WE HAD TO TRY TO MAKE THEM MORE ATTRACTIVE.

>> YEAH, WELL, WE TOOK AWAY THE SUBSIDIES RIGHT AS THEY WERE STARTING TO WORK.

BUT THERE'S ACTUALLY BEEN A LOT OF REALLY INTERESTING WORK ABOUT THIS, EVEN IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS.

A STUDY FINDING SOMETHING THAT I HAD ALWAYS THOUGHT MIGHT BE TRUE, AND TURNS OUT TO BE TRUE, AUTO DEALERS WERE DISCOURAGING CUSTOMERS FROM BUYING EVs.

WHY?

BECAUSE THEY DON'T BREAK DOWN VERY OFTEN.

THEY HAVE VERY FEW MOVING PARTS, AND IT TURNS OUT THAT FOR AN AUTO DEALER, SERVICE AND REPAIR ARE THE BIGGEST PARTS OF YOUR INCOME.

THEY HAD A BIG VESTED INTEREST IN KEEPING PEOPLE IN CRAPPY CARS THAT BREAK DOWN.

THESE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS THAT PUBLIC POLICY NEEDS TO GO AFTER AND GO AFTER FAST.

BECAUSE YEAH, IT'S NORWAY AND CHINA, BUT NOW, IT'S, YOU KNOW, ETHIOPIA.

IT'S INDONESIA.

IT'S EVERY FAST-DEVELOPING MARKET ON EARTH IS GOING STRAIGHT TO EVs, AND NOT JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE BETTER CARS.

BECAUSE THEY SAVE MANY, MANY TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN PUBLIC HEALTH COSTS.

ONE DEATH IN FIVE ON THIS PLANET IS --COMES FROM BREATHING THE COMBUSTION BY-PRODUCTS OF FOSSIL FUELS, THOSE PARTICULATES THAT LODGE IN YOUR LUNGS.

THAT COSTS INSANE AMOUNTS OF MONEY THAT WE DON'T NEED TO SPEND, BECAUSE WE HAVE THINGS LIKE EVs OR HEAT PUMPS FOR YOUR HOME THAT RUN CHEAP AND CLEAN.

THE IRONY OF WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE IS PARTLY THAT WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE, BUT MORE THAT WE'RE ALLOWING EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD TO INSTALL CHEAP ENERGY WILLY-NILLY.

THE CHINESE HAVE BEEN PUTTING UP SOLAR PANELS AT AN ASTONISHING PACE.

THIS TIME LAST YEAR, THEY WERE BUILDING THREE GIGAWATTS A DAY OF SOLAR POWER.

GIGAWATT'S THE EQUIVALENT OF A LARGE COAL-FIRED POWER PLANT.

THEY WERE PUTTING UP ONE OF THOSE EVERY EIGHT HOURS WITH SOLAR PANELS.

DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH CHEAP ENERGY THEY NOW HAVE FLOODING THEIR SYSTEM?

WHATEVER IT IS YOU WANT TO DO, BUILD STEEL, RUN DATACENTERS, MAKE CARS, WHATEVER IT IS, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE AN ENDLESS ADVANTAGE WHILE WE'RE - - AND THIS PART JUST BLOWS MY MIND - - WE'RE LITERALLY CLOSING DOWN, TRYING TO CLOSE DOWN 90%- FINISHED WIND FARMS OFF THE COAST OF NEW ENGLAND BECAUSE THEY PROVIDE TOO MUCH COMPETITION TO THE OIL INDUSTRY WHO HAVE GIVEN TOO MANY CAMPAIGN DONATIONS TO BE DENIED.

>> YOU'VE ALSO CALLED THIS KIND OF ATTACK, WHETHER IT'S ON WIND FARMS OR ABOUT ROLLING BACK THE SUBSIDIES AND SO FORTH, YOU SAID IT'S AT LEAST POSSIBLE THAT TRUMP AND COMPANY, THEIR ASSAULT ON ENVIRONMENTAL NORMS, IS MORE SHRILL THAN CONFIDENT.

HOW SO?

>> WELL, HERE'S AN INTERESTING STATISTIC.

YOU KNOW THE STATE THAT'S NOW BUILDING CLEAN ENERGY, SUN, WIND, BATTERIES, FASTEST?

THE LONE STAR STATE OF TEXAS, WHICH IS ALSO THE WORLD HEADQUARTERS OF THE HYDROCARBON INDUSTRY.

ECONOMICS ARE SO POWERFUL HERE THAT EVEN IN TEXAS, THEY'RE HAVING A VERY HARD TIME SLOWING DOWN THE ADOPTION OF CLEAN ENERGY.

THAT'S WHY THEY'RE HAVING TO DENY THE MOST BASIC FORMS OF SCIENCE, IN AN EFFORT TO UNDERCUT CHEAP, CLEAN ENERGY.

IT'S ASTONISHING.

WE'VE BEEN GIVEN THIS GIFT, AND WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT ONLY LOOKING THE GIFT HORSE IN THE MOUTH, WE'RE --WE'VE PULLED OUT THE REVOLVER AND WE'RE TRYING TO SHOOT IT BETWEEN THE EYES.

>> MARGOT, WHO SERVED AS THE EPA'S TOP VEHICLE EMISSIONS REGULATOR UNDER THREE DIFFERENT PRESIDENTS, SHE TOLD "THE NEW YORK TIMES" RECENTLY THAT "THE U. S. NO LONGER HAS EMISSIONS STANDARDS OF ANY MEANING. "

AND I WONDER WHAT IMPACT THAT HAS ON NOT JUST THE AUTO INDUSTRY BUT, YOU KNOW, THE ENERGY CREATION INDUSTRY, ALL THE --HOW'S IT GOING TO IMPACT US IF WE ARE IN A COMPLETELY DEREGULATED ENVIRONMENT?

>> WELL, ONE ANSWER IS, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH DO YOU LIKE TO WREATH?

BREATHE?

AND HOW MUCH DO YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR KIDS' LUNGS?

WE'RE GOING STRAIGHT BACK INTO A WORLD WHERE WE HAVE THE KIND OF CONDITIONS, THE SORT OF SMOG AND THINGS, THAT 50 YEARS AGO, GAVE RISE TO THE CLEAN AIR ACT AND THE EPA.

AND THIS IS NOT, YOU KNOW --I MEAN, THIS IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE.

IN NEW DELHI RIGHT NOW, THE AIR IS SO BAD THAT OF THE FIVE MILLION CHILDREN WHO LIVE THERE, TWO AND A HALF MILLION HAVE IRREVERSIBLE LUNG DAMAGE FROM BREATHING THE AIR.

HOPEFULLY, WE'LL STOP SHORT BEFORE WE GET THERE, BUT THIS IS JUST DUMB ON EVERY FRONT.

BUT THE PLACE WHERE --I MEAN, REALLY, PEOPLE SHOULD JUST BE CLEAR IS WE'RE GIVING AWAY THE AUTOMOBILE INDUSTRY TO CHINA.

WE'RE TAKING WHAT'S BEEN A CENTERPIECE OF AMERICAN INDUSTRY FOR MORE THAN A HUNDRED YEARS.

I MEAN, HENRY FORD REALLY INVENTED THE MASS PRODUCTION OF AUTOMOBILES.

AND NOW, WE'RE JUST HANDING IT OVER.

AND THE COST FOR DOING THAT, TO THE AUTO INDUSTRY, TO THE AUTO PARTS INDUSTRY, TO THE ENTIRE REGIONS OF THE COUNTRY WHERE THIS IS BACKBONE OF ECONOMIC ACTIVITY, THAT'S GOING TO BE JUST ASTONISHING.

AND THAT WE'VE DONE IT IN A YEAR.

I'M NOT SURE THERE'S EVER BEEN A KIND OF NATIONAL ACT OF ECONOMIC SELF-SABOTAGE ON QUITE THIS SCALE.

>> IS THIS SOMETHING THAT JUST GETS FIXED WITH ANOTHER ELECTION AND A DIFFERENT CHOICE AT THE POLLS?

I MEAN, YOU'RE --WHAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING ARE REALLY LAYERS OF INFRASTRUCTURE BEING DISMANTLED, WHICH TOOK DECADES TO BUILD.

>> SO, THERE'S SEVERAL PROBLEMS HERE.

ONE, YEAH, YOU KNOW, THEORETICALLY, AND PROBABLY, THE NEXT PRESIDENT WILL TRY TO DO SOMETHING TO, YOU KNOW, UNDO SOME OF THIS DAMAGE.

BUT IT'S NOT LIKE THE CHINESE ARE STANDING STILL.

THEY'RE GOING TO BE MILES UPON MILES UPON MILES AHEAD OF US BY THE TIME WE DIG OURSELVES OUT OF THIS HOLE.

AND IT'S ALSO NOT LIKE PHYSICS AND CHEMISTRY IN THE UPPER ATMOSPHERE ARE STANDING STILL.

THE RATE AT WHICH THE PLANET IS HEATING IS CLEARLY ACCELERATING, AND THE IMPACTS OF THAT ARE CLEARLY ACCELERATING.

WE'VE JUST HAD AN EXTRAORDINARY BLIZZARD OFF THE EAST COAST, SOME OF THE HIGHEST SNOWFALLS EVER RECORDED, AND IT'S BECAUSE THE OCEAN IS SO WARM NOW THAT WHEN STORMS COME ACROSS IT, THEY CAN PICK UP HUGE AMOUNTS OF MOISTURE.

WARM AIR HOLDS MORE WATER VAPOR THAN COLD, AND WE SEE THAT ALL OVER THE PLACE NOW.

SO, OUR MARGIN FOR ERROR IS SMALLER THAN WE MIGHT THINK.

I'M AFRAID THAT THIS IS A CATASTROPHIC FOUR YEARS THAT WE'RE PLAYING AROUND IN RIGHT NOW.

>> AS YOU POINT OUT, WE ARE SEEING AND LIVING THROUGH THE EXAMPLES OF EXTREME WEATHER, SO MUCH MORE FREQUENTLY, AND YET, IT SEEMS TO BE LESS OF A TOPIC THAT'S RIGHT ON THE POLITICAL MAIN STAGE.

WHEREAS YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, RED AMERICA AND BLUE AMERICA BEING AFFECTED EQUALLY BY MASSIVE FLOODS AND WILDFIRES AND HURRICANES THAT ARE MORE SEVERE THAN THEY USED TO BE.

>> WELL, FIRST THING IS, IT'S BASICALLY, IN THIS COUNTRY, THAT WE'RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO IT.

THE REST OF THE WORLD CONTINUES HARD AT WORK HERE AND ARGUABLY THE CHINESE ARE TAKING OVER THE SPACE VACATED BY THE U. S. AS THE WORLD LEADER ON THESE QUESTIONS, TRYING TO ORGANIZE THE REST OF THE PLANET.

BUT IN THIS COUNTRY, YEAH, TWO THINGS HAPPENED.

ONE, UNDER JOE BIDEN, WE PASSED THIS INFLATION REDUCTION ACT, WHICH WAS ACTUALLY GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.

SO, IT LESSENED A LOT OF THE POLITICAL IMPETUS AROUND IT, AND THEN IT WAS IMMEDIATELY TAKEN AWAY BY THE NEW REPUBLICAN CONGRESS.

IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A TEN-YEAR PROGRAM OF INDUSTRIAL SUPPORT TO BUILD THE FACTORIES AND THINGS, AND THAT ENDED AFTER ONE YEAR INSTEAD OF TEN.

SO, IT'LL TAKE A LITTLE WHILE TO REBUILD THAT KIND OF SUPPORT, AND IN THE MEANTIME, SADLY, THERE ARE TWO OR THREE OTHER POLITICAL ISSUES THAT ARE -- MOVE THEMSELVES TO THE FORE.

LOOK, EVERY SINGLE DAY, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT'S HAPPENING ON THE PLANET IS THE CHANGE IN THE CHEMISTRY OF THE ATMOSPHERE.

BUT IT'S NEVER ON ANY GIVEN DAY THE MOST VISIBLE THING THAT'S HAPPENING.

WHEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS SHOOTING PEOPLE IN THE STREET WITH MASKED AGENTS, IT'S NO WONDER THAT WE'RE PAYING SOME ATTENTION TO OTHER THINGS INSTEAD.

>> IS THERE, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE SPOKE LAST, IN MARCH OF 2022, YOU MENTIONED, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT BOYCOTTING RUSSIAN OIL WOULD CURB PUTIN'S INVASION OF UKRAINE.

AND HERE WE ARE, YOU KNOW, FOUR MORE YEARS OF THAT WAR HAS HAPPENED.

THERE HAVE BEEN SOME EFFORTS TO TRY TO PRESSURE INDIA FROM BUYING RUSSIAN OIL.

EUROPEAN UNION, AMERICA HAVE WITHDRAWN A LOT OF THEIR SUPPORT FOR RUSSIAN OIL.

WHY HASN'T IT WORKED?

>> WELL, I MEAN, I THINK IT PROBABLY PRETTY MUCH HAS WORKED.

I MEAN, ANOTHER WAY TO ASK THIS QUESTION IS, FOUR YEARS ON, THE VASTLY LARGER RUSSIAN MILITARY IS COMPLETELY UNABLE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT UKRAINE.

IT CAN'T MOVE MORE THAN A FEW MILES A MONTH, AND IT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE RUNNING OUT OF MONEY AND MATERIAL.

AND THE REASON IS THAT THERE'S BEEN A RELATIVELY EFFECTIVE BOYCOTT OF THEIR FOSSIL FUEL INTERESTS.

THERE ARE PLACES LIKE INDIA THAT HAVE CONTINUED TO BUY A LOT, BUT THEY'RE BUYING IT SUPER CHEAP AND THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY IS FALLING APART.

IF IT DIDN'T HAVE A BIG FRIEND IN THE WHITE HOUSE RIGHT NOW, THEY'D PROBABLY BE OVER THE BRINK, AND WE'RE PROBABLY AT THE POINT WHERE A LITTLE MORE PRESSURE FROM, SAY, THE UNITED STATES WOULD BE ENOUGH TO SEND THEM THERE.

I THINK --I GOT TO SAY, YOU KNOW, ALONGSIDE THE PEOPLE OF MINNEAPOLIS, THE PEOPLE OF UKRAINE SEEM TO ME TO DESERVE ENORMOUS PRAISE FOR HAVING A LOT OF BRAVERY AND STANDING UP TO ENORMOUS ODDS FOR A LONG TIME.

>> YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF LAST YEAR, AS SOMEONE WITH A VERY LARGE MEGAPHONE, WHICH IS BILL GATES, HAD AN ESSAY ARGUING THAT FINANCIAL RESOURCES SHOULD BE SHIFTED AWAY FROM THE FIGHT AGAINST CLIMATE CHANGE.

HIS QUOTE WAS, "ALTHOUGH CLIMATE CHANGE WILL HAVE SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES, PARTICULARLY FOR PEOPLE IN THE POOREST COUNTRIES, IT WILL NOT LEAD TO HUMANITY'S DEMISE.

HEALTH AND PROSPERITY ARE THE BEST DEFENSE AGAINST CLIMATE CHANGE. "

YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> WELL, I WROTE IMMEDIATELY ABOUT THAT TO POINT OUT THAT, WELL, A, THAT GATES HAS BEEN WRONG ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE ALMOST FROM THE BEGINNING.

AND B, THAT IN THOSE PARTICULAR WAYS, HE'S COMPLETELY WRONG.

THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION HAS MADE CLEAR THAT THE BIGGEST THREAT TO HUMAN HEALTH GOING FORWARD THIS CENTURY IS THE RAPID RISE IN TEMPERATURE.

WE'RE SEEING EXTRAORDINARY MIGRATIONS NOW AROUND THE PLANET BECAUSE IT'S SIMPLY GOTTEN TOO HOT OR PEOPLE'S HOMES ARE GOING UNDER WATER OR THE FLOODING IS TOO INTENSE, AND THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT DRIVE THE KIND OF PANDEMICS AND FAMINES THAT GATES --BUT I GOT TO SAY, AT THIS POINT, TOO, I THINK IF WE LEARN ANYTHING FROM THE EPSTEIN BUSINESS, IT'S MAYBE THAT IT'S TIME TO STOP PAYING QUITE AS MUCH ATTENTION TO WHAT PEOPLE SAY SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE A BILLION DOLLARS.

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE A GUARANTEE EITHER OF GOOD SENSE OR COMMON MORALITY.

>> BILL McKIBBEN, FOUNDER OF THIRD ACT AND CONTRIBUTING WRITER AT "THE NEW YORKER," THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> WHAT A PLEASURE, TAKE GOOD CARE.

> >> FINALLY FOR US, A NEW OLYMPIC FLAME BURNS.

THE 2026 WINTER PARALYMPIC TORCH HAS OFFICIALLY STARTED ITS RELAY, DEPARTING FROM STOKE MANDEVILLE IN THE UK, THE BIRTHPLACE OF THE PARALYMPIC MOVEMENT.

THE FLAME WAS LIT BY MILLEY KNIGHT, ALONGSIDE THE VICE-CAPTAIN OF ITALY'S PARA ICE HOCKEY TEAM.

THE TORCH HAS TOUCHED DOWN IN TURIN AND IS EXPECTED TO REACH VERONA ON MARCH 6, JUST IN TIME FOR THE OPENING CEREMONY.

THE GAMES WILL HOST MORE THAN 600 ATHLETES FROM 50 NATIONS WITH MEDALS IN 79 EVENTS UP FOR GRABS.

> >> NOW, BE SURE TO TUNE IN TOMORROW FOR A TRIP DOWN PENNY LANE.

ONE, TWO, THREE !

>> THE BEATLES HAVE BEEN MY WHOLE LIFE, REALLY.

WHEN WE SPLIT UP, I THOUGHT, I'LL NEVER WRITE ANOTHER NOTE OF MUSIC EVER.

>> A NEW DOCUMENTARY, "MAN ON THE RUN," IS AN INTIMATE LOOK AT PAUL McCARTNEY, MAYBE AS YOU'VE NEVER SEEN HIM BEFORE.

HE GRAPPLES WITH THE BEATLES BREAK- UP, HIS MUSICAL FUTURE, AND EVEN LIFE ON THE FARM.

I SPOKE WITH ITS AWARD-WINNING DIRECTOR ABOUT ALL THIS AND MORE, AND TRUST ME, YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS IT.

THAT'S ON TOMORROW'S SHOW.

AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP ON THE SHOW EACH NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.

ORG/AMANPOUR.

I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR WATCHING "AMANPOUR & COMPANY. "

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.