>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY  VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Lou: THIS WEEK ON NEW  MEXICO IN FOCUS, THE GROWING COST OF LIVING.

AN ECONOMIST ADDS UP THE REASONS GROCERY PRICES IN NEW  MEXICO ARE SO HIGH AND... >> WE ARE TAKING A VERY  CAUTIOUS APPROACH AND WE WOULD ADVOCATE EVERYBODY TAKE A  CAUTIOUS APPROACH.

>> Lou: FORECASTING FIRE  DANGER.

TWO HEADS OF THE STATE  FORESTRY DIVISION GIVE OUR LAND'S LAURA PASKUS A PREVIEW  OF WHAT THIS YEAR'S FIRE SEASON COULD LOOK LIKE.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DIVIZIO.

A NEW REPORT FROM HEALTH ADVISER SHOWS NEW MEXICO IS  ONE OF THE TOP 10 MOST EXPENSIVE STATES TO BUY  GROCERIES.

IN THE FIRST HALF OF TODAY'S  SHOW WE SIT DOWN WITH DR. JAMES PEACH, RETIRED  ECONOMICS PROFESSOR FROM NEW MEXICO STATE UNIVERSITY AND  ASK WHY NATIONWIDE PRICES IN THE CHECK-OUT LINE HAVE MOST  HURT HISPANIC AND LATINO AMERICAN COMMUNITIES.

LATER, SONYA WARWICK FROM ROADRUNNER FOOD BANK TELLS US  ABOUT THE INCREASED NEED THEY ARE SEEING AS FOOD COSTS  CONTINUE TO RISE.

WE ALSO RETURN TONIGHT TO THE  SECOND HALF OF OUR COVERAGE BETWEEN EXECUTIVE PRODUCER  JEFF PROCTOR AND ALEXANDER UBALLEZ, U.S. DISTRICT  ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO.

IN JUST OVER 15 MINUTES JEFF ASKS HOW THE FEDERAL  INVESTIGATION INTO ALLEGED CORRUPTION AT THE ALBUQUERQUE  POLICE DEPARTMENT COULD IMPACT THE ONGOING FEDERALLY MANDATED  REFORM EFFORT.

PLUS UBALLEZ TELLS US IF WE  SHOULD EXPECT PUBLIC CLOSURE IN THE HIGH PROFILE CASE  REGARDLESS OF ITS OUTCOME.

BUT FIRST IT IS SPRING TIME IN  NEW MEXICO.

THAT MEANS WARMER  TEMPERATURES, WINDS AND THE START OF FIRE SEASON.

THIS WEEK OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS SITS  DOWN WITH THE HEADS OF THE NEW MEXICO STATE FORESTRY DIVISION  TO TALK ABOUT THIS YEAR'S OUTLOOK, CLIMATE CHANGE AND  WHY FIRE PLAYS A VITAL PART IN A FOREST'S STRUCTURE.

>> Laura: LAURA MCCARTHY AND LINDSEY QUAM, THANKS FOR  JOINING ME TODAY.

>> McCarthy: GOOD TO BE HERE.

>> Laura: IT IS ONLY MARCH BUT WE NEEDED TO HAVE THIS  CONVERSATION EARLIER EVERY YEAR.

WHAT IS THE OUTLOOK FOR NEW MEXICO'S FIRE SEASON THIS YEAR?

>> McCarthy: SO, PROBABLY  FIRST OF MIND IS WHAT HAPPENED IN TEXAS LAST WEEK AND THE  SPEED AT WHICH THAT GRASS FIRE GOT REALLY BIG AND DANGEROUS.

AND SO THERE ARE PARTS OF NEW MEXICO RIGHT NOW WHERE THAT  KIND OF FIRE COULD HAVE HAPPENED HERE AND ON A RED  FLAG DAY LIKE THE DAY WHEN THAT FIRE TOOK OFF, WE COULD  HAVE EXPERIENCED THAT SAME FIRE BEHAVIOR.

AT THE SAME TIME, THERE ARE ALSO OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE,  ESPECIALLY THE NORTHERN MOUNTAINS, THAT HAVE A PRETTY  HIGH SNOW PACK, MORE THAN AVERAGE, AND WHILE THAT IS  GREAT WE ALSO KNOW THAT WITH CLIMATE CHANGE AND THE WARMING  TEMPERATURES THAT SNOW IS GOING TO DISAPPEAR A LOT  FASTER THAN IT USED TO.

SO, THAT IS KIND OF PART 1 IS  WHAT IS OUR CURRENT CONDITION.

THE FORECAST DOES HAVE IN IT  THAT THE EL NINO IS WEAKENING AND THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY  OF LA NINA RETURNING AND SO WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THAT  IS GOING TO MEAN FOR US.

WE ARE ANTICIPATING THAT THERE  WILL BE A GREEN UP THIS SPRING, THAT THERE IS ENOUGH  MOISTURE FOR THAT AND THAT, RIGHT AWAY, SEPARATES IT FROM  2022 WHEN IT WAS JUST SO DRY THAT THERE WAS NO GREEN UP.

BUT AFTER THE GREEN UP, EVERYTHING IS GOING TO DRY OUT  IN JUNE AND WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THE MONSOON WILL HIT AND WHAT  KIND OF STRENGTH IT WILL HAVE.

AND THIS TRANSITION FROM EL  NINO TO LA NINA DOES AFFECT WHETHER WE HAVE A MONSOON AT  ALL AND ITS STRENGTH.

SO WE ARE TAKING A REALLY  CAUTIOUS APPROACH AND WE WOULD ADVOCATE THAT EVERYBODY TAKE A  CAUTIOUS APPROACH AS WELL.

WE HAVE ALREADY HAD SEVERAL  RED FLAG DAYS AND SO THE WINDINESS IS GOING TO MAKE A  REALLY BIG DIFFERENCE TO HOW LONG THE SNOW PACK LASTS AND  THEN HOW QUICKLY THINGS DRY OUT.

THAT IS MY PERSPECTIVE.

I AM SURE LINDSEY CAN ADD TO  THIS.

>> Quam: I THINK LAURA COVERED  IT WELL, BUT, YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK, REALLY THE IMPACTS FOR  THE MONSOON SEASON COULD BE SIGNIFICANT DEPENDING ON  WHETHER OR NOT IT IS DELAYED, IF IT COMES ON EARLY.

I THINK SOME OF THE PREDICTIONS ARE THAT IT MAY  COME ON A LITTLE LATER BUT COULD POTENTIALLY BE  SIGNIFICANT, SIGNIFICANT IN TERMS OF MOISTURE.

SO, CRAP SHOOT IN A WAY.

>> Laura: I JUST WANT TO  REITERATE FOR OUR AUDIENCE THAT STATE FORESTRY IS  DIFFERENT FROM THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE, BUT I DO WANT TO TALK  ABOUT WHAT LESSONS WE HAVE LEARNED SINCE 2022.

I GUESS WE'LL START WITH YOU LINDSEY.

>> Quam: I THINK FOR US, SOME OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT  LESSONS WE LEARNED WERE BEING CAUTIOUS WITH PRESCRIBED  BURNING BUT STILL UNDERSTANDING THAT IT IS A  SIGNIFICANT RESOURCE AND BENEFIT TO FORESTS.

ALSO COMMUNICATING WITH OUR PARTNERS, FOREST SERVICE BEING  ONE OF THEM, HAVING BETTER COMMUNICATION, HAVING BETTER  PRESEASON COMMUNICATION, BUT JUST COMMUNICATION IN GENERAL  THROUGHOUT THE YEAR ON ACTIONS, ON PROJECTS, ON  PLANNING, IMPLEMENTATION, AND THEN ALSO COMMUNICATING WITH  SOME OF OUR STATE PARTNERS TOO, I THINK, WAS THE BIGGEST  THING, TOO, THAT WE LEARNED FROM THAT.

SO COMMUNICATION ALL ACROSS THE BOARD WITH PEOPLE AND  OTHER AGENCIES THAT ARE INVOLVED IN EITHER WILDLAND  RESPONSE OR SOME TYPE OF EMERGENCY RESPONSE.

AND I THINK LAURA MAY ELABORATE MORE ON THAT.

>> McCarthy: WELL, YOU MENTIONED THAT THE STATE  FORESTRY DIVISION IS NOT THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE AND I  THINK THAT'S ALSO CONNECTED TO ONE OF OUR LESSONS, SO, OUR  AGENCY IS PART OF THE STATE'S ENERGY, MINERALS AND NATURAL  RESOURCES DEPARTMENT AND WE HAVE BEEN AROUND SINCE 1957  WITH JURISDICTION PRIMARILY FOR WILDLAND FIRE SUPPRESSION  ON THE STATE AND PRIVATE LAND WHICH IS 43 MILLION ACRES.

AND WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DO THAT WITH A FULL-TIME STAFF OF  LOW 80'S POSITIONS.

AND THAT IS NOT ENOUGH.

SO ONE OF OUR LESSONS WAS THAT WE NEED TO BUILD STATE  CAPACITY TO RESPOND TO THE STATE AND PRIVATE FIRES AND TO  SUPPORT THE FEDERAL AGENCIES WITH LOCAL CREWS THAT CAN BE  ON SCENE VERY QUICKLY.

AND THE LEGISLATURE HEARD THAT  NEED AND SAW THE EMERGING LESSON AND GAVE US 50  POSITIONS IN THE 2023 LEGISLATIVE SESSION WHICH ARE  NOW SHOULD BE FULLY STAFFED FOR OUR FIRE SEASON AHEAD.

SO, I THINK THAT IS A REALLY IMPORTANT LESSON AND CHANGE.

>> Laura: SO DOES NEW MEXICO HAVE ITS OWN HOTSHOT CREW NOW?

IS THAT RIGHT?

>> McCarthy: YES.

AND, HOTSHOT HAS A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT MEANINGS AND ONE OF  ITS MEANINGS IS TO BE A TYPE 1 CREW UNDER THE NATIONAL  STANDARD SET BY THE NATIONAL WILDFIRE COORDINATING GROUP.

SO, WHILE OUR INTENTION WITH THE NEW POSITIONS IS TO CREATE  TWO HOTSHOT CREWS FOR NEW MEXICO THAT MEET THAT TYPE 1  STANDARD, WE AREN'T GOING TO BE ABLE TO HIRE THEM OUT OF  THE BOX.

IT IS GOING TO TAKE ABOUT  THREE YEARS, MAYBE AS MUCH AS FIVE YEARS, TO FULLY DEVELOP  THAT TYPE 1 ELITE LEVEL CAPACITY.

BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF EXCITEMENT  AROUND IT AND WE WILL BE ABLE TO FILL AS A TYPE 2 CREW FROM  DAY ONE.

SO THEY WILL BE GAINING THE  EXPERIENCE OVER THIS TIME PERIOD SO THAT HOPEFULLY IN  THREE YEARS THEY ARE QUALIFIED AS A TYPE 1 CREW.

>> Laura: OKAY.

WE HAVE GONE THROUGH SHOWS AND  HAD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT PRESCRIBED FIRE WITH YOU IN  THE PAST AS WELL AS WITH THE FOREST SERVICE.

AND, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WHEN I AM LIKE  MEETING WITH THE PUBLIC OR WHATEVER, EVERYBODY WANTS TO  ASK ME WHAT I THINK OF PRESCRIBED FIRE, IF I TRUST  AGENCIES, IF I TRUST PRESCRIBED FIRE AND I AM  INTERESTED IN LIGHT OF KIND OF A BETRAYAL OF TRUST, I THINK,  THAT HAPPENED ON THE PART OF THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE,  PEOPLE HAVE A LOT OF RESISTANCE TO PRESCRIBED FIRE  IN NEW MEXICO.

AND I WOULD LOVE FOR EACH OF  YOU TO TALK ABOUT PRESCRIBED FIRE AS A TOOL AND ITS  NECESSITY AND ALSO MAYBE HOW WE HAVE CHANGED OR TALK ABOUT  CHANGING HOW WE USE PRESCRIBED FIRE.

LINDSEY, IF YOU WANT TO START.

>> Quam: REALLY IN THE  HISTORICAL SENSE WITH OUR WESTERN FORESTS, I MEAN, FIRE  WAS A VITAL PIECE AND IS A VITAL PIECE TO THE STRUCTURE  AND COMPOSITION OF OUR FORESTS.

IT IS BECAUSE OF TAKING THAT VITAL PIECE OUT IS WHY WE HAVE  THE CONDITIONS THAT WE ARE FACING RIGHT NOW AND WHY  FORESTS AREN'T HEALTHY AND OVERLOADED AND WHY THERE IS A  DRASTIC NEED TO GET IT BACK TO SOME TYPE OF FUNCTIONING  SYSTEM.

AND, AGAIN, WHEN YOU TAKE A  VITAL PIECE OUT OF ANY COMPONENT, IT IS NOT GOING TO  OPERATE PROPERLY.

YOU HAVE CASCADING EFFECTS.

THAT IS WHAT WE ARE DEALING WITH RIGHT NOW.

WE ARE DEALING WITH ABOUT 100 PLUS YEARS OF FIRE SUPPRESSION  AND REMOVING FIRE OUT OF THAT ESSENTIAL SYSTEM.

SO, FORESTS DON'T KNOW HOW TO ADAPT TO IT.

SO, WE ARE FORCED WITH HAVING TO HELP MANAGE THAT ADAPTATION  BUT WE NEED TO INCLUDE THAT VITAL PIECE TO HELP US HELP  THE FOREST.

A LOT OF IT, I THINK, FALLS  INTO BRANDING, IN A WAY, OF PROMOTING GOOD FIRE AND THE  BENEFITS OF FIRE.

I THINK IN GENERAL, THE PUBLIC  UNDERSTANDS THE IMPORTANCE OF IT BUT THERE IS ALSO CERTAIN  PORTIONS OF THE PUBLIC, I THINK, IN MY OPINION, THAT  STILL HANG ON TO THE SMOKY BEAR LEGACY AND THE MESSAGING  BEHIND SMOKY BEAR AND THAT ALL FIRES ARE BAD.

I THINK IT IS -- THAT IS HARDER TO OVERCOME AND THEN  SOME OF THE OTHERS THAT ARE AGAINST FIRE, PER SE, IN  LARGER SCALE, USE OF IT, IS THEIR HEALTH BENEFITS OR THE  HEALTH RISKS THAT MAY BE ASSOCIATED WITH SMOKE.

SO, I THINK PART OF WHAT WE COULD DO BETTER IS ALSO  MESSAGING SOME OF THE FACTS BEHIND PRESCRIBED SMOKE VERSUS  WILDFIRE SMOKE.

AND HOW THE BENEFITS THAT COME  FROM PRESCRIBED BURNING IN TERMS OF MANAGEMENT OF THE  FOREST, MANAGEMENT OF FUELS, HOW IT REDUCES RISKS TO WILD  URBAN INTERFACE AND COMMUNITIES AND ALL OF THAT.

>> McCarthy: SO, IN ADDITION TO WHAT LINDSEY SAID, I WANT  TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT CULTURE AND CLIMATE.

SO, ON THE CULTURE SIDE, I THINK THAT -- AND THIS IS  BASED ON MY OWN EXPERIENCE -- THERE IS A FIRE FIGHTING  CULTURE THAT HAS A LOT OF BRAVADO TO IT AND IT HAS BEEN  LONG STANDING.

OUR STATE AGENCY HAS NOT BEEN  IMMUNE TO IT.

IT IS WELL DOCUMENTED IN THE  FOREST SERVICE AS TO AN ARROGANCE AND SOMETIMES  TOXICITY WITHIN THE FIRE FIGHTING CULTURE.

AND I THINK IT REALLY AFFECTS DECISION MAKING WHEN IT COMES  TO MAKING THAT WE HAVE GOT EVERYTHING LINED UP FOR GO.

LINDSEY AND I JOINTLY, AS STATE FORESTER AND DEPUTY,  HAVE WORKED REALLY HARD ON CHANGING OUR ORGANIZATIONAL  CULTURE, BOTH ON THE FIRE FIGHTING -- FOR OUR  FIREFIGHTERS BUT ALSO FOR ALL OF OUR EMPLOYEES.

AND IT HAS BEEN A FOUR-YEAR EFFORT THAT IS REALLY BEARING  FRUIT NOW AND SOME OF THAT IS HUMILITY AND A CORE VALUE OF  LEARNING FROM MISTAKES AND KIND OF A FAIL FORWARD SORT OF  ATTITUDE, BUT WITH PRESCRIBED BURNING, YOU CAN'T REALLY  AFFORD A FAIL BUT YOU DO NEED TO BE CONSTANTLY LEARNING.

SO, A CULTURE OF LEARNING, A CULTURE OF QUESTION ASKING  WHERE IT IS SAFE TO DO THAT.

THEN THERE IS THE CLIMATE  EFFECTS.

AND MY VIEW ON THE HERMIT'S  PEAK CALF CANYON IS THAT THE SOIL WAS SO UNBELIEVABLY DRY  FROM THAT EXTENDED LA NINA, I THINK THERE WERE TWO GROWING  SEASONS IN LA NINA PLUS THE WINTERS, THAT THERE WERE  CHANGES, PHYSIOLOGICAL CHANGES IN THE VEGETATION THAT WEREN'T  BEING MEASURED AND THAT THE PEOPLE DOING THE IGNITING AND  THE TEST FIRES WEREN'T CONSCIOUS OF.

AND THAT CONNECTS TO OUR CULTURE BECAUSE AS LINDSEY  SAID, THE SCIENCE IS CLEAR THAT WE HAVE TO PUT FIRE BACK  ON THE LAND IF WE ARE GOING TO HAVE FORESTS AT ALL.

OTHERWISE, THE CLIMATE WILL JUST TAKE CARE OF THEM AND  THEY'LL DISAPPEAR OVER CENTURIES.

BUT IF WE WANT TO MAINTAIN OUR FORESTS WITH FIRE, THEN WE  HAVE TO LEARN TO BE MORE SENSITIVE TO HOW THE CLIMATE  IS INTERACTING WITH THE FOREST ITSELF, BUT NOT JUST THE  VEGETATION.

WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE SOIL  REALLY MATTERS, ESPECIALLY ON THOSE PILE BURNS WITH THE  SLEEPER FIRES.

>> Warwick: HUNGER IS  ESSENTIALLY POVERTY.

THEY GO SIMULTANEOUSLY.

IF YOU HAVE HIGH RATES OF POVERTY, YOU HAVE HIGH RATES  OF HUNGER.

SO, IT MEANS WE HAVE TO DO  WHAT WE HAVE TO DO AS A STATE TO LIFT PEOPLE UP INTO THAT.

THAT CAN BE ANYTHING FROM MAKING SURE WE ARE PAYING  LIVING WAGES TO THINGS LIKE WE ARE PROVIDING EXCELLENT  EDUCATION OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE LOW INCOME.

AND I THINK IN A STATE LIKE OURS, BECAUSE OF OUR RURAL  NATURE AND THE FACT WE HAVE SUCH LARGE SPACES IN BETWEEN  COMMUNITIES, THAT CAN BE A TOUGH THING WHEN YOU'RE IN A  SMALL TOWN COMMUNITY AND THERE MAY NOT BE A LOT OF HIGHER  EARNING JOBS AVAILABLE TO YOU.

>> Lou: THAT INTERVIEW WITH  SONYA WARWICK OF ROADRUNNER FOOD BANK IS COMING UP IN  ABOUT 20 MINUTES.

WE'LL HEAR MORE FROM LAURA AND HEADS OF STATE FORESTRY LATER  IN THE SHOW.

RIGHT NOW WE PICK UP WHERE WE  LEFT OFF IN EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, JEFF PROCTOR'S,  INTERVIEW WITH U.S. DISTRICT ATTORNEY ALEXANDER UBALLEZ.

LAST WEEK ON THE SHOW UBALLEZ EXPLAINED WHY HE DECIDED TO  NOTIFY THE PUBLIC ABOUT HIS OFFICE'S INVESTIGATION INTO  ALLEGED CORRUPTION WITHIN APD'S DWI UNIT.

THIS WEEK JEFF ASKS UBALLEZ IF THE U.S.

ATTORNEYS OWE THE  PUBLIC A SENSE OF CLOSURE, WHEN SUCH A HIGH PROFILE CASE  EVENTUALLY COMES TO AN END?

>> Jeff: THE MESSAGE FROM YOUR  OFFICE AND FROM THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE HAS BEEN THAT WE  ARE THIS CLOSE TO ENDING A DECADE OF FEDERAL OVERSIGHT  FOR THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

THERE HAS BEEN QUITE A BIT OF SPECULATION IN THE VACUUM OF  SILENCE SINCE NEWS OF THIS INVESTIGATION BROKE ABOUT  WHETHER THIS COULD IMPACT THE CONSENT DECREE.

OF COURSE, ONE OF THE THINGS THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FOUND  WHEN THEY LOOKED INTO APD WAS A TOTAL LACK OF INTERNAL  CONTROLS.

THE INTERNAL AFFAIRS DIVISION  WAS NOT FUNCTIONING.

IT COULDN'T POLICE THEMSELVES.

WE ARE NOW READING STORIES IN THE NEWSPAPER THAT YOU HAVE  GOT A COUPLE OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS SUPERVISORS ON LEAVE  NOW IN CONNECTION WITH THIS INVESTIGATION.

MY FIRST QUESTION IS THIS.

WHEN I READ THAT EIGHTH  SECTION OF THE CONSENT DECREE THAT TALKS ABOUT COMPLAINT  INTAKE, COMPLAINT INVESTIGATION, IT SEEMS TO ME  THAT IT IS NOT DIRECTLY JUST CONNECTED TO USE OF FORCE.

DO I HAVE THAT RIGHT?

>> Uballez: I THINK YOU'RE  RIGHT.

I WASN'T INVOLVED IN THE  ORIGINAL CHARGING INVESTIGATION OR CONSENT  AGREEMENT BUT MY READ OF IT IS THAT IT WENT FAR BEYOND, IN A  GOOD AND ASPIRATIONAL WAY, THE ACTUAL INVESTIGATION AND  FINDINGS DURING THE INVESTIGATION OF THE  ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

IN DOING SO, THE ALBUQUERQUE  POLICE DEPARTMENT, ALBUQUERQUE CITY CRAFTED THIS REALLY TRULY  ASPIRATIONAL CONSENT AGREEMENTS THEY HOPED THEIR  DEPARTMENT WOULD LIVE UP TO AND INVOLVED MANY THINGS THAT  WEREN'T INCLUDED IN THE INITIAL INVESTIGATION OR  FINDINGS.

I DO THINK, I WILL SAY, AND I  DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN COURT.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PARTIES ARE GOING TO MOVE FOR.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE COURT IS GOING TO FIND.

BUT I DO THINK THAT FOR ANY POLICE DEPARTMENT, ESPECIALLY  OURS, A FUNCTIONING INTERNAL AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT IS CRITICAL  TO THE ADMINISTRATION OF THAT DEPARTMENT.

AND SO, I WOULD GUESS THAT A FUNCTIONING INTERNAL AFFAIRS  DEPARTMENT IS WHAT THE CITY WILL RECEIVE AFTER THIS  INVESTIGATION PLAYS OUT.

>> Jeff: IS YOUR OFFICE  REVIEWING -- GOSH, HOW TO ASK THIS.

IS YOUR OFFICE REVIEWING ANYTHING IN CONNECTION WITH  THIS INVESTIGATION THAT COULD IMPACT THE CONCLUSION OF THE  CONSENT DECREE?

>> Uballez: I DON'T THINK I  CAN SPEAK TO THAT.

>> Jeff: OKAY.

YEAH, OKAY.

MOVING AWAY FROM THE IMPACT  THAT THIS MIGHT HAVE ON THE CONSENT DECREE, IN HIGH  PROFILE INVESTIGATIONS LIKE THIS ONE, WHO MAKES THE  ULTIMATE DECISION ON WHETHER TO CHARGE?

>> Uballez: IT DEPENDS.

MOST DECISIONS, MOST CRIMINAL  CHARGING DECISIONS, IN FACT ALL CRIMINAL CHARGING  DECISIONS, ARE APPROVED BY THE UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FOR A  GIVEN DISTRICT.

EVERY SINGLE CRIMINAL  INDICTMENT, AND WE ISSUE MANY EVERY WEEK, EVERY MONTH,  WE HOLD A SCREENING COMMITTEE WHERE ALL OF MY MANAGEMENT AND  MYSELF READ EVERY SINGLE INDICTMENT, EVERY SINGLE  PROSECUTION MEMORANDUM WHICH DETAILS THE CASE, ITS  ELEMENTS, THE FACTS AND WITNESSES, ITS WEAKNESSES AND  CONSTITUTIONALITY.

AND IN DOING THAT, WE APPROVE  OR WE DON'T EVERY SINGLE CRIMINAL INDICTMENT THAT COMES  IN THIS DISTRICT.

FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE  CASES, THE FINAL AUTHORITY LIES WITH ME.

THERE ARE SOME EXCEPTIONS.

EXCEPTIONS ARE WHAT WE DO AS  LAWYERS.

THROUGHOUT THE JUSTICE MANUAL,  WHICH IS A DOCUMENT THAT WAS CREATED, HAS BEEN CREATED OVER  THE YEARS FOR PROCEDURES FOR FEDERAL PROSECUTORS AND THE  DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE PROSECUTORS TO FOLLOW, IT  OUTLINES -- THERE ARE SEVERAL CARVE OUTS THERE FOR WHERE  RESPONSIBILITIES COULD LIE.

IN CERTAIN AREAS THAT ARE A  LITTLE BIT MORE, THAT MAY HAVE MORE NATIONAL INTEREST, AREAS  THAT MAY BE A SPECIFICALLY TRICKY STATUTE, THERE ARE  OTHER AUTHORITIES THAT GO TO MAIN JUSTICE IN THE CRIMINAL  DIVISION UP THERE, FOR THEM TO HAVE A SAY OR THE FINAL SAY.

THIS HAPPENS BOTH IN THE CRIMINAL AND CIVIL SIDE.

SOMETIMES I'LL HAVE AUTHORITY AND SOMETIMES THE AUTHORITY  GETS BOOSTED UP THERE AND, OF COURSE, THE FINAL AUTHORITY IS  ALWAYS THE BOSS, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

BUT THERE ARE SOME CASES -- I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF  WHEN WE USE RICO OR VICAR TYPE CRIMINAL CHARGES THERE ARE  CASES THERE WHERE WE HAVE TO GO TO MAIN JUSTICE, CRIMINAL  DIVISION, CONSULT WITH THEM AND GET APPROVAL ON USING  CHARGES HERE IN THE STATE.

SO, THE ANSWER IS SOMETIMES IT  IS HERE, MOST OF THE TIME IT IS HERE.

SOMETIMES THERE IS AUTHORITIES IN WASHINGTON, D.C.  >> Jeff: GOT YOU.

I HAVE SEEN A NUMBER OF  FEDERAL INVESTIGATIONS OF LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT IN THE  DECADES THAT I HAVE BEEN DOING THIS AND I HAVE SEEN EXAMPLES  OF CASES WHERE I WAS ABLE TO CONFIRM THAT AN INVESTIGATION  DID EXIST.

IT DID NOT END IN INDICTMENT.

THERE WERE NO HANDCUFFS.

THERE WERE NO PERP WALKS, BUT  NOTHING WAS EVER SAID AGAIN ABOUT THE CONCLUSION OF A  COUPLE OF THOSE INVESTIGATIONS.

I AM THINKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT ALLEGATIONS THAT  OFFICERS WERE TAMPERING WITH BODY CAMERA VIDEO IN  SHOOTINGS.

I KNOW THERE WERE  INVESTIGATIONS BUT THERE WAS NEVER ANY SORT OF ANNOUNCEMENT  AT THE END THAT THE INVESTIGATION HAS CONCLUDED.

YOU AND I SPOKE SOME BEFORE WE SAT DOWN TODAY ABOUT AN OP ED  THAT PREET BHARARA, THE FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE SOUTHERN  DISTRICT OF NEW YORK WROTE, SORT OF PUSHING FOR A LITTLE  BIT MORE TRANSPARENCY ON THE BACK END OF INVESTIGATIONS  THAT DON'T END IN INDICTMENT OR CHARGES.

I AM CURIOUS HOW THAT OP ED STRUCK YOU AND WHETHER THERE  IS A CONVERSATION AMONG U.S.

ATTORNEYS IN THIS COUNTRY TO  MAYBE PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT MORE CLOSURE AT THE END OF  THESE.

>> Uballez: SO, THERE IS  INITIALLY A DISTINCTION I WANT TO DRAW AT THE TOP WHICH IS  THERE IS A DIFFERENCE, I THINK, BETWEEN -- IT GETS A  LITTLE CONFLATED IN THIS DISCUSSION -- NOTICE TO THE  PUBLIC, RIGHT, AND NOTICE TO A POTENTIAL TARGET, RIGHT.

SO, I THINK, YOU KNOW, IN PREET, IN HIS OP ED, TALKS A  LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE ANXIETY THAT A POTENTIAL TARGET MIGHT  BE FEELING, BUT I THINK THAT IT IS A SEPARATE EQUITY THAN  THAT OF THE PUBLIC OF KNOWING  WHETHER OR NOT SOMETHING IS HAPPENING OR NOT HAPPENING,  RIGHT.

SO, I THINK, IN THINKING  ABOUT, YOU KNOW, OUR PRACTICE HERE, I DON'T HAVE AND I  PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE RUN SOME NUMBERS, BUT IN MY EXPERIENCE  THIS PLAYS OUT IN A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT WAYS.

THE FIRST THING THAT CAME TO MIND WAS THIS, WE HAVE A  SPECIAL RESPONSIBILITY HERE WHEN WE SERVE INDIAN COUNTRY,  RIGHT.

WE HAVE 22 TRIBES AND PUEBLOS  HERE IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO.

WE HAVE A SPECIAL TRUST RESPONSIBILITY AS THE FEDERAL  GOVERNMENT TO THEM.

AS A COMPONENT OF THAT WE,  ISSUE DECLINATION LETTERS, WHICH IS A LETTER THAT STATES,  WE HAVE REVIEWED THE CASE AND WE ARE NOT CHARGING.

THIS GOES TO FINALITY TO THE TRIBE WHEN WE ISSUE NOTICES  ABOUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED WITH A CASE OR NOT HAPPENED.

SO IT SERVES SOME OF THOSE EQUITIES IN A REALLY DIRECT  WAY AND UNIQUE WAY FOR THOSE WHO SERVE TRIBAL TERRITORIES.

BUT YOU LOOK AT THE JUSTICE MANUAL WHICH I REFERRED TO  EARLIER, THERE IS A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT AREAS WHERE THAT  DISCUSS WHETHER OR NOT WE TALK ABOUT A DECISION NOT TO GO  FORWARD AGAINST THE TARGETS WITH THE TARGETS THEMSELVES.

I THINK, AGAIN, THIS WILL HIGHLIGHT THE EQUITY AS I  DISCUSSED AT THE BEGINNING.

SO IN SOME CRIMINAL AND CIVIL  RIGHTS INVESTIGATIONS, WE ARE ACTUALLY ENCOURAGED TO GIVE  THE PUBLIC NOTICE ABOUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED.

THE EQUITY WITH IT THERE IS IN THE PUBLIC'S INTEREST,  ESPECIALLY IN THE CASE OF POLICE OFFICERS, THEY ARE  SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED OR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS, AND THE  REASON THEY ARE TO STEP BACK IS THE TRUST OF THE PUBLIC IN  THEIR INSTITUTIONS THAT THE PEOPLE POLICING THE STREETS  WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO KEEP THEM  SAFE ARE DOING THEIR JOB AND DOING IT CONSTITUTIONALLY.

AND SO THE JUSTICE MANUAL AND GENERATIONS OF U.S.

ATTORNEYS  HAVE IDENTIFIED THE NEED IN THOSE CASES SPECIFICALLY FOR  US TO INTERFACE WITH THE PUBLIC ABOUT IT.

THERE IS ANOTHER SECTION THAT GIVES US AUTHORIZATION TO DO  SO.

I THINK PREET MAY HAVE  REFERRED TO IT OBLIQUELY IN HIS PIECE AND IT SAYS THAT WE  HAVE THE DISCRETION, WE, THE U.S.

ATTORNEYS, HAVE THE  DISCRETION TO LET A TARGET KNOW THAT THEY ARE NO LONGER A  TARGET AND IT GIVES A COUPLE OF STEPS OF ANALYSIS.

THE FIRST ONE OBVIOUSLY IS A CASE WHERE THE PERSON BEING  INVESTIGATED KNOWS THEY ARE BEING INVESTIGATED.

RIGHT.

YOU DON'T WANT TO GO OUT AND  KNOCK ON SOMEBODY'S DOOR, HEY, WE INVESTIGATED YOU FOR TWO  YEARS BUT YOU'RE GOOD.

THE PERSON HAS TO KNOW THEY  ARE BEING INVESTIGATED AND SECOND WE HAVE TO KNOW THAT WE  ARE DISCONTINUING THE INVESTIGATION OF THEM WITHOUT  AN INDICTMENT OR CHARGE OR THAT THEY ARE BEING  EXONERATED.

THAT WE HAVE DISCOVERED  EVIDENCE THAT SAYS THEY ARE NOT GUILTY OR THEY ARE  INNOCENT OF THE CRIME.

SO, LOOKING AT THESE  CIRCUMSTANCES, I'LL THROW IN ONE FINAL CAVEAT BEFORE I TALK  ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT.

FINAL CAVEAT IS THIS.

AS FEDERAL PROSECUTORS WE ARE DISTINCT FROM STATE  PROSECUTORS.

WE ARE DISTINCT FROM THE STATE  LAW ENFORCEMENT SYSTEM.

A STATE PROSECUTOR OR DISTRICT  ATTORNEY, THEY HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO CHARGE THE  CRIMES IN THEIR JURISDICTION.

THERE IS NOBODY ELSE CHARGING  THE CRIMES, RIGHT?

EVERY CRIME THAT WE CHARGE AS  FEDERAL PROSECUTORS AS OUTLINED BY THE JUSTICE MANUAL  IS A POLICY DECISION, RIGHT?

EVERY TIME WE BRING AN  INDICTMENT, A CRIMINAL CHARGE, WE, OF COURSE, BEGIN SAYING  DID A CRIME OCCUR, WAS IT CONSTITUTIONAL?

CAN WE PROVE THIS TO A JURY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.

THOSE ARE BASELINES.

BUT AFTER THAT, THE ANALYSIS  WE DO IN EVERY SINGLE CASE IS AS A POLICY MATTER.

IS THIS BEST CHARGED FEDERALLY?

WHICH MEANS ARE THERE OTHER ALTERNATIVES TO CRIMINAL  CHARGES?

ARE THERE OTHER JURISDICTIONS  WHO COULD HANDLE THIS?

IS THERE A SUBSTANTIAL FEDERAL  INTEREST IN DOING WHAT WE ARE DOING.

SO, NOT BRINGING A FEDERAL INDICTMENT ISN'T NECESSARILY A  CLEARING OF A PERSON'S NAME.

AND I THINK FINALLY AND MOST  INTERESTINGLY FOR ME IS, YOU KNOW, PREET PUTS IN AND  ACKNOWLEDGES AN EXCEPTION BUT I FEEL LIKE ALMOST BEATS THE  RULE HERE, WHICH IS, WE CAN ALWAYS SAY IN A LETTER,  EXONERATING SOMEONE, SAYING WE ARE NOT GOING FORWARD ON THIS  INVESTIGATION THAT YOU KNOW IS HAPPENING OF YOU, BUT WE COULD  ALWAYS GO FORWARD LATER.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, WHILE I  UNDERSTAND IT, RIGHT, AND WHILE IT IS PERSUASIVE TO ME  THAT PEOPLE WANT FINALITY, I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS LETTER AS  PROPOSED SAYING WE ARE NOT DOING IT NOW BUT WE COULD DO  IT ANY OTHER TIME UP AND TO THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS,  WHICH IS GOING TO RUN IN ANY CASE, RIGHT, I DON'T KNOW THAT  THAT SOLVES THE PROBLEM.

>> Jeff: INTERESTING.

MY LAST QUESTION IS THIS.

SHOULD FOLKS HERE EXPECT SOME PUBLIC CLOSURE IN THIS CASE  REGARDLESS OF ITS OUTCOME?

>> Uballez: FOLKS SHOULD  EXPECT PUBLIC CLOSURE.

>> Jeff: ALEX, THANKS SO MUCH  FOR COMING DOWN TODAY.

I REALLY APPRECIATE THE CHAT.

>> Uballez: THANK YOU.

>> Lou: THANK YOU TO U.S.  ATTORNEY UBALLEZ FOR MAKING THE TIME TO SHED SOME LIGHT ON  HOW HE MAKES DECISIONS IN CASES LIKE THIS ONE.

YOU CAN WATCH JEFF'S ENTIRE INTERVIEW ONLINE RIGHT NOW ON  THE NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS YOUTUBE PAGE OR ON THE PBS  APP.

NATIONWIDE INFLATION HAS  DROPPED TO ITS LOWEST POINT IN THREE YEARS THIS MONTH,  FALLING TO JUST UNDER 3.1% ACCORDING TO THE BUREAU OF  LABOR STATISTICS.

THAT IS DOWN FROM ITS PEAK OF  OVER 9% IN JUNE OF 2022.

BUT, WHY ARE SO MANY OF US  STILL WINCING AS WE ROLL OUR CARTS THROUGH THE GROCERY  STORE.

I TRY TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION  IN OUR NEXT SEGMENT WITH RETIRED NEW MEXICO STATE  UNIVERSITY ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, DR. JAMES PEACH.

DR. JAMES PEACH, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME HERE TODAY  ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Peach: THANK YOU.

GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> Lou: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT  GROCERY PRICES AND SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE ALL EXPERIENCED,  SEEMINGLY ENDLESS INCREASE AT GROCERY CHAINS AROUND THE  STATE.

I JUST WANTED TO ESTABLISH  RIGHT OFF THE BAT BEFORE WE GET INTO SPECIFICS,  WE AREN'T CRAZY, RIGHT?

PRICES ARE CONTINUING TO GO UP  EVEN NOW?

>> Peach: YES.

IN FACT, THIS MORNING THERE WAS A NEW RELEASE OF THE  CONSUMER PRICE INDEX.

SURPRISINGLY, FOOD WAS NOT ONE  OF THE MAJOR ITEMS THAT WAS INCREASING.

IT WAS MAINLY GASOLINE, TRANSPORTATION AND HOUSING.

FOOD IS RELATIVELY FLAT.

>> Lou: THAT IS SOMETHING THAT  I WANT TO GET INTO IN TERMS OF PRICING VERSUS INFLATION, BUT  LET'S START WITH INFLATION SPECIFICALLY.

WE KNOW IT IS DOWN FROM ITS HIGH'S A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.

PRICES ARE STILL HIGH, SO, CAN YOU EXPLAIN EXACTLY WHAT  INFLATION IS FIRST AND WHAT INFLUENCES THAT NUMBER THAT WE  SEE RIGHT AROUND 3% RIGHT NOW.

>> Peach: YES.

THE EASIEST WAY TO LOOK AT IT IS TO DRAW A SHOPPING CART AND  YOU GO INTO THE GROCERY STORE AND YOU BUY 10 OR 20 ITEMS AND  YOU COME BACK, A MONTH OR YEAR LATER, AND YOU BUY EXACTLY  THOSE SAME ITEMS AGAIN AND SEE WHETHER THE PRICE HAS GONE UP  OR DOWN.

IF IT HAS GONE UP, THAT WOULD  BE INFLATION.

BUT ADD TO THE BASKET ALL THE  OTHER THINGS LIKE SHELTER AND TRANSPORTATION AND  ENTERTAINMENT, EVEN BARBER SHOPS AND THE LIKE, AND SO IT  IS A BASKET OF GOODS AND INFLATION OCCURS WHEN THAT  BASKET OF GOODS AND SERVICES INCREASES IN PRICE.

IT IS NOT JUST ONE ITEM.

>> Lou: AND NOT JUST ONE  INDUSTRY EITHER.

>> Peach: AND NOT JUST ONE  INDUSTRY.

>> Lou: UNDERSTOOD.

SO, WITH INFLATION COOLING AND FOCUSING IN ON THAT ONE  SPECIFIC INDUSTRY OF GROCERY PRICES RIGHT NOW, BROADLY  SPEAKING, WHAT FACTORS IMPACT THOSE PRICES AT THE GROCERY  STORE EVEN WHEN INFLATION IS DROPPING.

>> Peach: IT IS NOT AN EASY QUESTION TO ANSWER BECAUSE  THERE ARE MULTIPLE THINGS.

FOR FARM PRODUCED, FOR  EXAMPLE, WHEN ENERGY PRICES INCREASE, THOSE COSTS TO THE  FARMER HAVE TO BE PASSED ALONG TO THE CONSUMER.

SO ENERGY IS A BUG DEAL IN THE AGRICULTURAL INDUSTRY.

>> Lou: WITHIN A GROCERY STORE ARE THERE ANY SPECIFIC ITEMS  LIKE WE HAVE SEEN THE FLUCTUATION OF EGG PRICES, FOR  EXAMPLE.

HOW DO THOSE MORE VOLATILE  ITEMS INFLUENCE THE OVERALL PRICING WITHIN A GROCERY STORE  OR IS IT MOSTLY SEPARATE?

>> Peach: IT IS SEPARATE.

WHEN THE GROCERY STORE SETS THE PRICE OF EGGS, IT DOES SO  BASED ON THE WHOLESALE PRICE THAT IT IS PAYING, NOT ON THE  PRICE OF ANOTHER COMMODITY.

AN INTERESTING EXAMPLE, I  BOUGHT SOME AT THE STORE JUST DAYS AGO AND, YES, THEY COST  ME MORE THAN THEY DID FIVE YEARS AGO, BUT, LESS THAN THEY  DID A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.

>> Lou: I KNOW WE HAVE ALL  EXPERIENCED THAT.

NOW, A REPORT FROM HEALTH  ADVISER SHOWS THAT NEW MEXICO RANKS SIXTH IN THE NATION WITH  THE HIGHEST WEEKLY AVERAGE GROCERY BILL OF MORE THAN $286  PER AVERAGE HOUSEHOLD IN THE STATE.

THAT IS IN THE TOP 10 FOR THE COUNTRY ON AVERAGE.

BUT WHY ARE GROCERY TRIPS HERE AROUND $15 MORE EXPENSIVE THAN  SAY A NEIGHBORS STATE, SAY, LIKE ARIZONA.

>> Peach: PROBABLY BECAUSE WE HAVE A SMALLER POPULATION BASE  AND WE HAVE MANY GROCERY STORES THAT ARE IN VERY SMALL  COMMUNITIES AND THEY CAN'T GET THE ADVANTAGE OF BUYING IN  BULK.

THEY CAN'T STOCK WHAT A BIG  STORE CAN STOCK AND THE OVERHEAD YOU HAVE TO HAVE A  STORE MANAGER, YOU HAVE TO PAY RENT, YOU HAVE TO PAY THE  ELECTRIC BILL AND IT IS SPREAD OVER A SMALLER NUMBER OF  CUSTOMERS.

>> Lou: YOU TALK ABOUT LARGER  GROCERY CHAINS VERSUS SMALLER GROCERY CHAINS, WE HAVE HEARD  IN THE NEWS RECENTLY A PROPOSED MERGER BETWEEN THE  TWO LARGEST GROCERY CHAINS IN THE COUNTRY, KROGER AND  ALBERTSON.

KROGER, OBVIOUSLY, SMITH'S  HERE IN NEW MEXICO FOR THE MOST PART, ATTORNEY GENERAL  RAUL TORRES IS OPPOSED TO THAT MERGER, SEVERAL OTHER  ATTORNEYS GENERAL ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE TOO.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE REASONS WHY ATTORNEYS GENERAL WOULD BE  OPPOSED TO A MERGER LIKE THIS AND WHAT SHOULD CONSUMERS  THINK ABOUT IT?

HOW DOES IT AFFECT PEOPLE LIKE  YOU AND ME?

>> Peach: THE   REASON THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OPPOSES  MERGERS LIKE THAT VERY FREQUENTLY IS BECAUSE IT  REDUCES COMPETITION.

AND COMPETITION IS SOMETHING  THAT RESULTS IN LOWER PRICES FOR CONSUMERS.

SO, IF YOU HAVE TWO VERY LARGE FIRMS MERGING, THE POTENTIAL  IS THERE TO HAVE MORE MARKET POWER AND THE ABILITY TO RAISE  PRICES.

>> Lou: OKAY, FROM THE  INDUSTRIES PERSPECTIVE, WHAT IS THE BENEFIT FOR THESE TWO  CHAINS TO CREATE THIS MERGER AND WHAT SHOULD WE THINK ABOUT  THAT?

>> Peach: TYPICALLY IN A  MERGER LIKE THAT, THEY ELIMINATE THE MANAGEMENT  POSITIONS.

THEY CAN COMBINE FOR MORE  LEVERAGE ON THEIR SUPPLIER FOR LOWER PRICES GIVEN TO THEM.

THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY PASSED ALONG TO THE CONSUMER AND THAT  IS WHAT THE GENERAL -- >> Lou: ALSO ACCORDING TO THAT  REPORT THAT I MENTIONED EARLIER FROM HEALTH ADVISER,  HISPANIC AND LATINO AMERICANS ARE SPENDING THE MOST EACH  WEEK ON GROCERIES ON AVERAGE.

WHY IS THAT DEMOGRAPHIC BEING  HURT SO MUCH BY THESE PRICE INCREASES?

>> Peach: IT IS WHERE THEY LIVE.

SMALLER COMMUNITIES THAT YOU CAN OFTEN FIND COMMUNITIES  THAT ARE PREDOMINANTLY HISPANIC OR LATINO IN NEW  MEXICO AND PART BECAUSE NEIGHBORHOODS IN LARGE CITIES  ARE NOT SERVED WELL BY THE DISTRIBUTION OF GROCERY  STORES.

IT IS LIKELY, I THINK, THAT IT  IS BECAUSE OF THE PARTICULAR MARKET BASKET OF GOODS THAT  HISPANICS AND LATINOS PURCHASE.

>> Lou: WHO ELSE IN NEW MEXICO IS BEARING THE BRUNT OF THESE  HIGH PRICES THE MOST?

IS IT EVEN ACROSS THE BOARD?

>> Peach: NO.

IT IS NOT EVEN.

PEOPLE ON FIXED INCOMES SUFFER THE MOST FROM INFLATION IN  GENERAL.

INCLUDING GROCERY PRICES.

SO, THAT WOULD INCLUDE MOSTLY, RIGHT, RETIREES WHO GET A  CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY EVERY MONTH.

AND AS THE PRICES GO UP, THAT MONEY BUYS LESS.

AND TYPICALLY, NOT ALWAYS, BUT TYPICALLY THOSE ON FIXED  INCOMES DON'T HAVE HIGH INCOMES.

>> Lou: TAKING EVERYTHING THAT WE TALKED ABOUT INTO ACCOUNT,  SHOULD WE EXPECT GROCERY PRICES TO KEEP CLIMBING, STAY  FLAT LIKE YOU MENTIONED THEY KIND OF ARE RIGHT NOW, OR IS  THERE ANY HOPE OF THEM KIND OF LEVELING OFF TO GOING DOWN IN  THE NEAR FUTURE?

>> Peach: I THINK THERE IS  SOME HOPE THAT THEY WILL LEVEL OUT.

I DON'T THINK THERE IS MUCH OF A CHANCE THAT GROCERY PRICES  WILL GO DOWN MUCH.

SELECTED ITEMS MIGHT.

>> Lou: DR. JAMES PEACH, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE  TODAY ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Peach: THANK YOU AND GOOD  LUCK TO YOU.

>> Lou: THANK YOU TO DR. PEACH  FOR SPEAKING TO ME.

YOU CAN WATCH THE ENTIRE  UNEDITED INTERVIEW ONLINE ON THE NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS  YOUTUBE PAGE.

NOW, AS WE GRAPPLE WITH HIGH  FOOD COSTS AND HOLD OUT HOPE FOR A SLIGHT REPRIEVE FROM  RISING GROCERY BILLS, A CASCADING COMBINATION OF  ECONOMIC REALITIES AND A PUSH FROM OUR LEADERS TO RETURN TO  A PRE-PANDEMIC LIFE-STYLE IS CAUSING FOOD INSECURITY TO  BLEED INTO MORE AND MORE HOUSEHOLDS.

RIGHT NOW ACCORDING TO THE NONPROFIT, FEEDING AMERICA,  ONE IN SEVEN NEW MEXICANS FACES HUNGER.

THAT NUMBER IS EVEN HIGHER FOR CHILDREN WITH 1 IN 5 LACKING  RESOURCES THEY NEED TO STAY FULLY FED.

IT IS A PROBLEM THAT MADE THE ALREADY VITAL COMMUNITY  RESOURCE OF FOOD BANKS EVEN MORE IMPORTANT.

THIS WEEK I SIT DOWN WITH SONYA WARWICK FROM ROADRUNNER  FOOD BANK OF NEW MEXICO TO ASK ABOUT THE INCREASED NEED THEY  ARE SEEING AND HOW THEY ARE WORKING TO KEEP UP.

SONYA WARWICK, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US HERE ON NEW MEXICO  IN FOCUS.

>> Warwick:   THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING US ON.

WE SURE APPRECIATE IT AND GLAD TO BE HERE AND REPRESENT THE  FOOD BANK.

>> Lou: ABSOLUTELY.

NOW WE JUST SPOKE TO AN ECONOMICS PROFESSOR ABOUT  RISING FOOD PRICES.

THEIR IMPACT ON FAMILIES.

IN OUR STATE, WHERE WE ARE SIXTH IN THE COUNTRY FOR  HIGHEST AVERAGE GROCERY BILLS FOR THE AVERAGE FAMILY, HAVE  YOU SEEN AN INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE COMING TO  YOUR FOOD BANK?

>> Warwick: YES, ABSOLUTELY.

WE DEFINITELY HEAR FROM PEOPLE WHEN WE ARE OUT IN OUR  COMMUNITY DOING FOOD DISTRIBUTIONS THAT REGULARLY  REPORT TO US, LIKE, I AM HERE BECAUSE I CAN'T AFFORD FOOD OR  I AM HERE BECAUSE I CAN'T AFFORD FOOD AND RENT OR FOOD  AND MY MEDICATION OR FOOD AND OTHER BASIC NEEDS THEY NEED  ACCESS TO.

AND IT IS DRIVING LOTS OF  PEOPLE BACK INTO FOOD LINES.

>> Lou: HAVE YOU NOTICED A  DIFFERENCE IN THE ECONOMIC STABILITY OF THE PEOPLE  COMING, I GUESS?

IN OTHER WORDS, ARE PEOPLE OF  MORE MEANS VISITING YOUR FOOD BANK TRYING TO GET HELP WITH  THEIR FOOD?

>> Warwick: I THINK THAT IS  HARDER TO TELL, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT ALWAYS ASKING THOSE KINDS  OF QUESTIONS.

BUT IN GENERAL, YOU KNOW, I  HAVE MET PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE, PEOPLE FROM FAMILIES,  TO SINGLE HOUSEHOLDS.

WE SEE A LOT OF SENIORS IN  FOOD LINES, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, AND HERE IN THE STATE OF NEW  MEXICO, REALLY IT IS THE TWO MOST VULNERABLE POPULATIONS  THAT WE SEE THAT ARE BENEFITING FROM THE SERVICES  THAT THE FOOD BANK PROVIDES, CHILDREN AND SENIORS.

SO, ROUGHLY ONE IN FIVE KIDS IN OUR STATE IS EXPERIENCING  HUNGER.

AND OVERALL IT IS ONE IN SEVEN  NEW MEXICANS WHO IS AT RISK OF HUNGER.

WE KNOW IT IS IMPACTING, REALLY, THE MOST VULNERABLE  AMONG PEOPLE.

>> Lou:   WHAT BEYOND RISING GROCERY PRICINGS IS  CONTRIBUTING TO THAT RISE IN PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO YOUR  FOOD BANK?

>> Warwick: THE ROLL BACK OF  SNAP BENEFITS ABOUT THIS TIME LAST YEAR, WE DEFINITELY SAW  AN INCREASE AS PEOPLE WEREN'T GETTING AS MUCH OF THAT  BENEFIT AND THEY BASICALLY SAID, HEY, I HAVE HAD TO  RETURN TO CHARITABLE HUNGER PROGRAMS BECAUSE, YES, I HAVE  BEEN ABLE TO PROVIDE FOR MY FAMILY, USING THOSE SNAP  BENEFITS AND IT WAS ENOUGH TO GET THEM IN A PLACE WHERE THEY  FELT FOOD SECURE, WHERE THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO VISIT  CHARITABLE FOOD PROGRAMS, BUT NOW WE SEE THAT THEY NEED BOTH  OF THOSE TO MAKE ENDS MEET, REALLY, IN TERMS OF THE AMOUNT  OF MEALS AND FOOD THEY ARE PUTTING ON THE TABLE FOR THEIR  LOVED ONES.

>> Lou: HOW ELSE HAVE  OPERATIONS AT ROADRUNNER CHANGED SINCE THE END OF THE  PANDEMIC, I MEAN, FEELS LIKE WE ARE OUT OF IT, BUT NOW FOUR  YEARS AGO ALMOST.

>> Warwick: WELL, JUST LIKE  YOU AND I ARE FEELING THAT PINCH AT THE GROCERY STORE IN  WHAT WE SEE IN TERMS OF FOOD COSTING, THE FOOD BANK IS TOO.

WE HAVE DEFINITELY DEDICATED MORE AND MORE OF OUR BUDGET  OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS TO STRICTLY BUYING FOOD.

YOU KNOW, IT IS ONE WAY THAT WE SOURCE FOOD, BUT WE ALSO  SECURE FOOD DONATIONS AND THROUGH OTHER MEANS TOO.

AND, WHEN WE ARE SPENDING MORE OF OUR BUDGET ON THAT, IT  MEANS THAT THOSE DOLLARS THAT A DONOR IS GIVING TO US DON'T  GO AS FAR BECAUSE COSTS ARE MUCH HIGHER FOR VERY BASIC  THINGS.

AND THAT CAN BE ANYTHING FROM PEANUT BUTTER TO SOUPS, A  VARIETY OF DIFFERENT PRODUCTS THAT WE SEE FOOD INCREASES ON  AND NOT JUST LIKE 5 OR 10%, SOMETIMES AS MUCH AS 60%,  SOMETIMES AS MUCH AS 100% COMPARED TO EVEN FOUR YEARS  AGO.

>> Lou: NOW, YOU MENTIONED  DONATIONS.

MOST PEOPLE KNOW THAT IS A BIG  WAY THAT YOU GUYS RECEIVE FOOD BUT TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE  ABOUT HOW YOU PROCURE FOOD.

>> Warwick: AS I MENTIONED,  ONE OF THE WAYS THAT WE PROCURE FOOD IS THROUGH FOOD  PURCHASES.

WE ALSO HEAVILY RELY ON  DONATIONS FROM THE COMMUNITY.

WHETHER THAT IS PEOPLE HOSTING  A FOOD DRIVE ON OUR BEHALF IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD, IN THEIR  COMPANY, AMONG FRIENDS OR FAMILY, THAT IS ANOTHER SOURCE  OF FOOD, BUT TWO OF THE LARGER WAYS WE GET FOOD, ONE IS  FEDERAL.

THERE IS SOME FEDERAL  LEGISLATION THAT FUNNELS IT TO THE STATE AND THE STATE  PURCHASES THAT FOOD AND THEN WE ARE CHARGED WITH  DISTRIBUTING THAT, OF COURSE, IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO  INTO SEVERAL COUNTIES OR ACTUALLY 16 COUNTIES.

AND THEN THE OTHER WAY THAT WE SECURE FOOD IS INDUSTRY  PARTNERS, FOOD INDUSTRY PARTNERS, SPECIFICALLY.

THINK ABOUT LIKE A LOCAL GROCERY STORE WHO MAY NOT BE  ABLE TO SELL CERTAIN PRODUCTS BUT THEY STILL HAVE A LIFE TO  THEM.

WE PICK UP AT THEIR STORES  VERY OFTEN.

WE BRING IT BACK TO THE FOOD  BANK.

VOLUNTEERS SORT THAT PRODUCT  AND THEN IT GETS ADDED TO OUR INVENTORY AND THEN DISBURSED  OUT INTO 16 COMMUNITIES THAT WE SUPPLY FOOD TO.

>> Lou: THIS YEAR'S STATE BUDGET THAT RECENTLY PASSED  INCLUDED SOME MONEY FOR FOOD PROCUREMENT FOR ORGANIZATIONS  LIKE YOURS.

HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT  LEGISLATION?

>> Warwick: VITAL, RIGHT,  BECAUSE IT IS STRICTLY FOR FOOD PURCHASES.

THAT WILL ALLOW US TO COMPLIMENT THE INVENTORY THAT  WE HAVE ON HAND.

IT WILL ALLOW US TO BUY  PRODUCT WE MAY NOT GET AS A TYPICAL FOOD DONATION AND LET  US GET VARIETY, VARIETY OF DIFFERENT FOOD ITEMS THAT HELP  COMPLETE THAT MEAL.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN A  FOOD INSECURE SITUATION, IF THEY HAVE THEIR OWN FOOD  BUDGET THEY MAY NOT NECESSARILY PURCHASE HEALTHIER  FOOD ITEMS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT GOING TO LAST AS LONG.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DISTRIBUTE A SIGNIFICANT  AMOUNT OF IS THINGS LIKE FRESH FRUITS AND VEGETABLES, FOR  EXAMPLE.

SO, HAVING ACCESS TO THOSE  KINDS OF FUNDS HELP US COMPLIMENT AND MAKE THE MEAL  THAT WE ARE PROVIDING TO PEOPLE WHO ARE FOOD INSECURE,  MORE WELL ROUNDED, MORE HEALTHY WITH PROTEIN ITEMS AND  OTHER TIMES OF FOODS THEY NEED FOR THEIR FAMILIES TO LIVE AND  THRIVE.

>> Lou: LASTLY ON FOOD  PROCUREMENT FOR YOUR GROUP, I KNOW A LOT OF THAT IS ALSO AT  THE MERCY OF CONGRESS.

WHAT DO YOU KEEP AN EYE ON IN  WASHINGTON EACH YEAR WHEN IT COMES TO THE BUDGET?

>> Warwick: DEFINITELY.

RIGHT NOW THERE IS LEGISLATION  CALLED THE FARM BILL THAT AUTHORIZED EVERY FIVE YEARS.

IT REALLY SETS THE SPENDING LIMITS, IF YOU WILL, FOR THAT  FIVE-YEAR PERIOD FOR THINGS LIKE SNAP, FOR THINGS LIKE  COMMODITY FOOD THAT THE FOOD BANKS DISTRIBUTE AND THAT IS  REALLY KNOWN AS THE EMERGENCY FOOD ASSISTANCE PROGRAM.

SORRY ABOUT THAT.

AND THEN ALSO A SENIOR HUNGER  PROGRAM.

AND WHEN WE SEE FLUCTUATIONS  IN ANY OF THOSE, THAT IMPACTS OUR ABILITY TO GET MORE FOOD  ON TO THE PLATES OF PEOPLE WHO NEED IT.

WHEN THERE IS FLUCTUATIONS IN PEOPLES' BENEFITS ON SNAP, FOR  EXAMPLE, THAT CAN DEFINITELY INCREASE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE  ATTENDING FOOD DISTRIBUTIONS AND ALSO REALLY PUTS STRESSORS  ON FOOD BANKS ACROSS THE COUNTRY AT A TIME WHEN WE ARE  TRYING TO BUY FOOD AND TRYING TO GET MORE POUNDS INTO OUR  FOOD BANKS TO DISTRIBUTE TO PEOPLE IN NEED.

WHEN YOU SEE THAT KIND OF PUSH AND PULL, WE ALWAYS ADVOCATE  TO MAKE SURE THE FEDERAL NUTRITION PROGRAM PART OF THAT  BILL IS SET AT A RATE THAT MAKES SURE PEOPLE ARE TAKEN  CARE OF WHO ARE LOW INCOME AND NEED THAT ADDITIONAL HELP.

>> Lou: WHERE DO THINGS SIT RIGHT NOW WITH THIS YEAR'S  FARM BILL.

>> Warwick: YOU KNOW, IT IS  KIND OF BEING UNDER CONSIDERATION.

WE JUST HAD SOME OF OUR STAFF IN WASHINGTON LAST WEEK  ADVOCATING FOR IT.

SO, I DIDN'T GET THE LATEST  UPDATE FROM THEM BEFORE COMING HERE TODAY, BUT I CAN TELL YOU  IT IS DEFINITELY A PRIORITY, NOT JUST FOR OUR FOOD BANKS  BUT COMMUNITIES THAT RECEIVE THE FOOD PRODUCTS THAT WE ARE  SENDING TO THEM AS WELL AS OTHER FOOD BANKS ACROSS THE  COUNTRY.

>> Lou: NOW LETS TAKE A SHORT  PAUSE AND ZERO IN ON A DEFINITION.

WHAT IS FOOD INSECURITY AND WHAT DO PEOPLE WHO ARE FACING  IT HAVE TO DEAL WITH?

>> Warwick: YOU KNOW, AT OUR  FOOD BANK, WE TEND TO USE FOOD INSECURITY AND HUNGER A LITTLE  BIT MORE INTERCHANGEABLY.

IT IS REALLY A USDA TERM, BUT  IT BASICALLY IN THE SHORT OF IT, IS SAYING THAT PEOPLE  DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TO MAKE FOOD POSSIBLE THROUGHOUT THE COURSE  OF A PERIOD OF TIME, USUALLY IN THE CASE OF A MONTH, BUT IT  COULD BE A WEEK OR LONGER PERIOD OF TIME.

WHEN PEOPLE ARE FACING FOOD INSECURITY, IT MEANS THEY ARE  NOT ABLE TO PROCURE ENOUGH FOOD FOR THEIR FAMILY OVER THE  COURSE OF A PERIOD OF TIME.

>> Lou: LAST YEAR, YOUR MEMBER  ORGANIZATION, FEEDING AMERICA, RELEASED ITS MAP, THE MEAL GAP  OF 2023 REPORT.

THAT DETAILS THE HIGH RATES OF  CHILD HUNGER IN OUR STATE THAT HAS BEEN THE CASE FOR A LONG  TIME NOW, UNFORTUNATELY.

WHAT AREAS IN NEW MEXICO DID  YOU FIND WERE HIT THE HARDEST BY CHILD HUNGER?

>> Warwick: THIS IS A TREND WE HAVE SEEN SINCE THAT REPORT  CAME OUT MANY YEARS AGO, BUT RURAL HUNGER, WE SEE A LOT OF  INCREASED HUNGER IN RURAL COMMUNITIES.

AND WHEN RURAL COMMUNITIES ALSO FACE THOSE INCREASES, IT  IMPACTS CHILDREN.

SOME OF THEM AS MUCH AS 30%  CAN BE AT RISK OF EXPERIENCING HUNGER IN RURAL COMMUNITIES.

SO, WE KNOW THAT THERE IS MORE NEED OFTEN THAT HAPPENS IN  RURAL COMMUNITIES AND NECESSARILY URBAN CENTERS OR  IN SUBURBAN URBAN AREAS.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THERE ISN'T  HUNGER IN THOSE AREAS TOO.

IT JUST MEANS IT IS PROBABLY  NOT AS DEEP AS OTHER PLACES THAT TEND TO HAVE MUCH MORE  RURAL FRONTIER-LIKE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE FACING  THAT NEED AND NEEDING MORE FOOD ON THE PLATES OF THE  PEOPLE IN THOSE AREAS.

>> Lou: IS THERE A ROAD MAP  FOR ADDRESSING THE NEEDS IN THOSE SPECIFIC AREAS?

>> Warwick: YES.

WE DEFINITELY, AT LEAST IN THE  LAST YEAR, WE MADE AN EFFORT TO OPEN WHAT WE CALL HEALTHY  FOOD EXPRESS MOBILE MARKETS.

THE CONCEPT IS REALLY IS  LOOKING AT HIGH NEED COMMUNITIES WITH LOW FOOD  ACCESS.

SO WE OPERATE ANYWHERE FROM  ABOUT 9 TO 10 OF THOSE A MONTH.

THERE IS A COUPLE OF THEM HERE IN THE URBAN CENTERS BUT MOST  OF THEM ARE IN PLACES LIKE LOVING.

THEY ARE IN T OR C, THEY ARE IN CUBA, THEY ARE IN TORREON,  JEMEZ, FOR EXAMPLE.

SO, MUCH SMALLER COMMUNITIES  WITH SMALLER POPULATIONS THAT MAY NOT HAVE ACCESS TO A FULLY  FUNCTIONAL GROCERY STORE AND RELY ON THOSE FOOD  DISTRIBUTIONS TO MAKE SURE THOSE FAMILIES ARE GETTING  HEALTHY FOOD OPTIONS.

>> Lou: HUNGER, OF COURSE, HAS  BEEN AN ISSUE IN NEW MEXICO FOR A LONG TIME.

WHAT ARE WE MISSING HERE?

WHETHER LEGISLATIVELY,  PHILOSOPHICALLY WITHIN OUR SOCIETY, IS THERE SOME CHANGE  THAT YOU CAN IMAGINE THAT WOULD HELP US GET OUR ARMS  AROUND THIS A LITTLE BIT BETTER.

>> Warwick: WELL, HUNGER IS PART OF POVERTY, RIGHT?

IF YOU HAVE HIGH RATES OF POVERTY, YOU HAVE HIGH RATES  OF HUNGER.

AND IT MEANS THAT WE NEED TO  DO WHAT WE HAVE TO DO AS A STATE TO LIFT PEOPLE UP INTO  THAT.

THAT CAN BE ANYTHING FROM  MAKING SURE WE ARE PAYING LIVING WAGES TO THINGS LIKE WE  ARE PROVIDING EXCELLENT EDUCATION OPPORTUNITIES FOR  PEOPLE WHO ARE LOW INCOME.

AND I THINK IN A STATE LIKE  OURS, BECAUSE OF OUR RURAL NATURE AND THE FACT THAT WE  HAVE SUCH LARGE SPACES IN BETWEEN COMMUNITIES, THAT CAN  BE A TOUGH THING WHEN YOU'RE IN A SMALL TOWN COMMUNITY AND  THERE MAY NOT BE A LOT OF HIGHER EARNING JOBS AVAILABLE  TO YOU.

>> Lou: SONYA WARWICK, THANK  YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME HERE ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

THANKS AGAIN TO SONYA WARWICK FOR THAT INTERVIEW.

NOW WE JOIN BACK UP WITH LAURA AND THE NEW MEXICO FORESTRY  DIVISION TO HEAR MORE ABOUT FIRE AND HOW TO LIVE SAFELY  AND SUSTAINABLY NEAR FORESTS, ESPECIALLY AS INSURANCE  COMPANIES BALK AT COVERING HOMES IN AND AROUND FORESTED  AREAS.

>> Laura: SO, ONE OF THE  THINGS THAT I HAVE HEARD TALKED ABOUT, PARTICULARLY IN  PLACES LIKE CALIFORNIA, IS LIKE INDIGENOUS OR CULTURAL  BURNING.

AND THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF  REALLY COOL PROJECTS, PARTICULARLY IN NORTHERN  CALIFORNIA.

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT IS  HAPPENING HERE IN NEW MEXICO AT ALL OR IS THAT WE HAVE  AGENCIES THAT HAVE PARTNERSHIPS WITH TRIBES ON  THIS?

>> Quam: YEAH, SO THE FORESTRY  DIVISION WE HAVE STARTED A TRIBAL WORKING GROUP WHICH HAS  MORPHED WITH OTHER PARTNERS OR NONPROFIT PARTNERS LIKE TNT  NEW MEXICO AND THE FOREST STEWARDS GUILD HAVE JOINED IN  AND KIND OF HELPED MOVE THAT COLLABORATIVE GROUP TO A  LARGER AUDIENCE IN TERMS OF TRIBAL PARTICIPATION.

SO, IT IS MORPHED INTO A TRIBAL WILDFIRE WORKING GROUP  WHERE WE MEET QUARTERLY WITH USUALLY ABOUT 12 TRIBES ACROSS  THE STATE AND MOVE TOWARDS TRYING TO GET SIGNIFICANT  ACTION WITH WILDFIRE TRAINING, PRESCRIBED BURNING.

CULTURAL BURNING HAS BEEN A HOT TOPIC AND WE HAVE EVEN  INVITED, THROUGH TNT'S INDIGENOUS PEOPLES BURNING  NETWORK MANAGERS TO COME AND GIVE PRESENTATIONS AND TRY AND  PROMOTE CULTURAL BURNING.

WE HAVE EVEN INVITED TRIBES  FROM CALIFORNIA TO COME AND PRESENT.

THERE HAS BEEN NUMEROUS WORKSHOPS AND CONFERENCES THAT  HAVE RECENTLY BEEN HELD WITH THAT FOCUS TO TRY AND PROMOTE  IT WITHIN THE TRIBES IN NEW MEXICO.

IT IS REALLY UP TO THE TRIBES WHETHER OR NOT THEY CHOOSE TO  INCORPORATE CULTURAL BURNING INTO THEIR ACTIONS.

A LOT OF THE DISCUSSIONS HAVE BEEN HINGED AROUND WHAT THAT  MEANS IN TERMS OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE BUREAU  OF INDIAN AFFAIRS WHO HAS -- WELL, ALL FEDERAL AGENCIES  HAVE THE TRUST RESPONSIBILITY TOWARDS TRIBES, BUT THE BUREAU  OF INDIAN AFFAIRS MANAGES THE WILDFIRE FOR TRIBES.

AND I THINK TRIBES ARE IN A PHASE WHERE THEY ARE TRYING TO  UNDERSTAND HOW TO NAVIGATE CULTURAL BURNING THROUGH THE  BUREAU AND WHAT THAT MAY MEAN FOR THEM.

AND HOW THEY CAN GO ABOUT ACCOMPLISHING THAT.

SO, IT IS KIND OF A CONUNDRUM IN THE SENSE THERE IS A  TRAINING COMPONENT BUT ALSO A CULTURAL COMPONENT AND IT IS  UNCLEAR WHAT TRUMPS WHAT OR WHO IS WILLING TO TAKE THAT  LEAP AND MAYBE START INCORPORATING SOME OF THESE  ACTIONS.

BUT THERE IS SIGNIFICANT  MOVEMENT TOWARDS THAT AND WE ARE TRYING TO FACILITATE THAT  WITH OUR PARTNERS IN HOWEVER WAY WE CAN WITHIN OUR  AUTHORITIES AND WITHIN OUR FUNDING OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE  OFFER AS WELL.

>> Laura: SO, LOTS OF PEOPLE  LIVE IN PLACES THAT ARE VULNERABLE TO FIRE.

THAT IS LIKE IN NEW MEXICO, THAT IS VERY, VERY OLD  COMMUNITIES AND IT IS ALSO NEW DEVELOPMENT INTO THE WILDLAND  URBAN INTERFACE.

AND AS WE SEE INSURANCE  COMPANIES PULL BACK, AS WE SEE FORESTS GETTING HOTTER AND  DRYER, ARE FORESTS A PLACE THAT HUMANS IN NEW MEXICO CAN  CONTINUE TO LIVE INTO THE FUTURE?

WE'LL START WITH YOU, LINDSEY.

>> Quam: I THINK THERE IS AN  INTERESTING DYNAMIC IN SOME OF THAT WHERE WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT  ARE MOVING FROM OTHER PLACES INTO NEW MEXICO AND A LOT OF  MY UNDERSTANDING OF WHY IS THEY LIKE THE LANDSCAPE.

THEY LIKE BEING OUT IN THE WOODS.

THAT IS WHY THEY BOUGHT THE PROPERTY.

THAT IS WHY THEY WANT TO LIVE CLOSE TO FORESTS.

AND SO THEY CAN SOMETIMES NOT MAYBE NECESSARILY UNDERSTAND  ALL THE HAZARDS OR IMPACTS THAT MAY COME WITH LIVING IN  THE WILDLAND URBAN INTERFACE AREA AND THAT INTERMIXING OR  INTERFACING WITH THE FOREST COMPONENT.

AND SOMETIMES THAT IS HARD TO CONTEND AGAINST BECAUSE  WHEREVER THEY MAY COME FROM, WHATEVER STATE, THEY MAY HAVE  DIFFERENT LAWS, DIFFERENT POLICIES, DIFFERENT RULES AND  THEY SOMETIMES BRING THAT WITH THEM AND THAT IS SOMETIMES  HARD TO CONTEND AGAINST IN TERMS OF EDUCATION AND  OUTREACH.

BUT, IT REALLY STARTS WITH, I  THINK, AMBASSADORS, AS WELL, AT THESE COMMUNITIES.

AND IF YOU CAN GET STRONG AMBASSADORS TO ENCOURAGE  HOMEOWNERS TO DO SOMETHING, DEFENSIBLE SPACE, HOME  HARDENING, FIRE-WISE TYPE TACTICS AND TECHNIQUES, THEN I  THINK THAT CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN LIVING IN AN  INTERFACE.

BUT I THINK IT REALLY STARTS  AGAIN WITH EDUCATION AND COMMUNICATION WITH A LOT OF  PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THESE COMMUNITIES.

AND I DON'T THINK THERE IS NECESSARILY AN UNDERSTANDING  OF THE IMPACT FROM SOME COMMUNITIES BECAUSE MAYBE IT  DIDN'T HAPPEN TO THEM, IT HAPPENED IN ANOTHER PLACE.

AND THEY CAN EMPATHIZE BUT THEY DIDN'T EXPERIENCE IT SO  THEY MAY NOT NECESSARILY UNDERSTAND WHY THAT COMMUNITY  IS AN UPROAR OR WHY THERE MIGHT BE THAT ANIMOSITY  AGAINST, YOU KNOW, FIRES OR PRESCRIBED BURNING AND THINGS  LIKE THAT, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T EXPERIENCE WHAT OTHERS MAY  HAVE EXPERIENCED.

I AM SURE LAURA CAN ELABORATE  MORE ON THAT.

>> McCarthy: WELL, IF YOU  THINK ABOUT THE SETTLEMENT PATTERNS UP TO ABOUT 100 YEARS  AGO IT WAS ALWAYS HOMES IN THE VALLEYS AND ALMOST ALWAYS  SURROUNDED BY FIELDS.

AND THAT IN AND OF ITSELF IS  GOOD FIRE PROTECTION AS WELL WHEN OUR RIPARIAN AREAS OR  STREAM AREAS ARE FUNCTIONING WELL, AND THERE IS WATER IN  THE STREAMS, THEN THERE IS ALSO WATER KIND OF IN THE  VALLEY BOTTOMS THAT IS BEING HELD THROUGH MOST OF THE  SUMMER, WHICH MEANS THAT YOU HAVE GOT KIND OF A NATURAL  PATTERN OF FIRE BREAKS ACROSS OUR FORESTED AREAS OF NEW  MEXICO.

AND WE HAVE DISRUPTED THAT  BOTH BY DEGRADING THE STREAMS SO THAT THEY ARE DRY IN THE  SUMMER, WHICH MEANS THAT ALL THE MOISTURE HAS DRAINED OUT  OF THE MARSH LANDS.

SO IT IS NOT GOING TO ACT LIKE  A FIRE BREAK ANYMORE AND THEN, AS LINDSEY DESCRIBED, WITH  MORE DEVELOPMENT, PEOPLE ARE BUILDING NOT JUST IN THE  VALLEYS BUT UP IN THE FORESTS AND IT IS LOVELY UNTIL IT IS  NOT.

SO, WITH THE RECENT  INFORMATION AROUND THE CHALLENGES OF GETTING PROPERTY  INSURANCE IN SOME PARTS OF NEW MEXICO, WE HAVE BEEN HAVING  SOME REALLY INTERESTING CONVERSATIONS WITH THE OFFICE  OF THE SUPERINTENDENT OF INSURANCE AND WITH SOME OF THE  RESEARCH INSTITUTES THAT SUPPORT THE INSURANCE  INDUSTRY.

AND, THE TAKEAWAY IS THAT,  YES, THE HOME HARDENING IS REALLY IMPORTANT AND HOME  HARDENING MEANS THINGS LIKE MAKING SURE THAT EMBERS CAN'T  GET UNDER YOUR EAVES OR IF YOU HAVE A WOOD DECK OR A WOOD  PILE UP AGAINST YOUR HOUSE, OR MAYBE A WOODEN FENCE THAT  LEADS TO YOUR HOUSE, TAKING CARE TO PUT A FIVE-FOOT BREAK  IN THERE, SO THAT, YOU KNOW, SAY YOUR FENCE ISN'T ACTING  LIKE A WICK TO BRING FIRE RIGHT INTO YOUR HOME.

THERE ARE THINGS THAT HOMEOWNERS CAN DO AND THERE  ARE A TON OF RESOURCES ONLINE.

BUT WHAT IS EVEN MORE  IMPORTANT, WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED FROM THE WIND DRIVEN  WILDFIRES OR WHAT THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY HAS LEARNED  FROM THE WIND DRIVEN WILDFIRES IS THAT NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE  ACTION IS WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT AND WHAT HAS THE  HIGHEST PROBABILITY OF ALTERING FIRE BEHAVIOR.

AND IT IS CHALLENGING TO GET NEIGHBORS TO ACT TOGETHER.

AND WHEN I ASKED THE INSURANCE -- REALLY THE  PRESIDENT OF THIS RESEARCH INSTITUTE, WELL, WHAT IS THE  POLICY FIX?

HE DIDN'T HAVE AN ANSWER.

HE SAID THAT IS YET TO BE INVENTED.

SO, WE ARE TRYING TO WRAP OUR HEADS AROUND THAT AND SEE IF  WE CAN'T COME UP WITH SOMETHING CREATIVE IN NEW  MEXICO THAT WILL INCENTIVIZE NEIGHBORHOOD SCALE ACTION, BUT  WE DON'T KNOW YET WHAT THAT IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE.

AND, YOU KNOW, TO LISTENERS, IF YOU LIVE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD  THAT IS WOODED AND YOU CAN WORK TOGETHER WITH YOUR  NEIGHBORS, YOU REALLY SHOULD BECAUSE THAT COULD BE WHAT  SAVES YOUR HOUSE.

>> Laura: WHAT I AM HEARING  FROM BOTH OF YOU IS PAYING ATTENTION TO YOUR LANDSCAPE,  CARING FOR THE PLACE YOU LIVE AND BEING IN COMMUNITY.

>> McCarthy: THAT IS EXACTLY IT.

>> Laura: EASY FIXES.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> Lou: IF YOU HAVEN'T  ALREADY, SIGN UP FOR THE OUR LAND WEEKLY NEWSLETTER.

LAURA WILL HAVE EVEN MORE FIRE SEASON INFORMATION AND  RESOURCES IN TUESDAY'S ISSUE, THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

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