>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY: VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Jeff: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, A LOOK AT GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM'S CHANGES TO THE STATE BUDGET BEFORE SIGNING IT LAST WEEK AND THE INDIVIDUAL BILLS THAT FELL TO HER VETO PEN.

AND >> Bird: WE REALLY NEED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED.

WHY DID IT HAPPEN?

HOW DID IT HAPPEN?

AND WHAT CAN WE DO TO ENSURE THAT THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN?

>> Jeff: AS WE PASS THE FIFTH ANNIVERSARY OF THE COVID PANDEMIC, WE REVISIT OUR CONVERSATION ABOUT THE DISEASE'S LONG-TERM EFFECTS ON OUR PHYSICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I'M EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR.

WAKE UP.

CHECK YOUR PHONE.

CATCH UP WITH THE NEWS.

RINSE, REPEAT.

THE NEWS CYCLE IN 2025 HAS BEEN A FIREHOSE OF BROKEN GLASS, EVEN MORE SO THAN IN YEARS PAST.

SO, THIS WEEK WE'RE CATCHING OUR BREATH, TAKING A STEP BACK AND REVISITING SOME PREVIOUSLY AIRED STORIES THAT REMAIN IMPORTANT TODAY.

A PHARMACY DESERT IN ALBUQUERQUE'S INTERNATIONAL DISTRICT THAT STILL SITS DRY.

A UNM STUDY ON MICROPLASTICS IN THE BRAIN IS GETTING MORE EYEBALLS THANKS TO THE NEW YORK TIMES.

AND LONG COVID MIGHT NOT BE FRONT-PAGE NEWS, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT STILL STICKS WITH LOT OF US.

BUT BEFORE WE LOOK BACK, WE BEGIN OUR SHOW REVIEWING THE STATE BUDGET AND HANDFUL OF BILLS THAT MADE IT THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE BUT NOT INTO STATE LAW.

GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM, LAST WEEK, APPROVED THE LARGEST BUDGET IN STATE HISTORY, WITH MUCH OF THE INCREASE COMING AMID AN ONGOING OIL AND GAS BOOM.

BUT SHE MADE A FEW SMALL CUTS TO THE VERSION LAWMAKERS SENT TO HER DESK.

STILL, THE NEARLY $10.8 BILLION SPENDING PLAN THAT GOES INTO EFFECT IN JULY MARKS A 6% INCREASE OVER THIS YEAR'S BUDGET, WHICH ALSO BROKE A STATE RECORD.

IN A STATEMENT, LUJAN GRISHAM THANKED LAWMAKERS FOR PRIORITIZING WHAT SHE CALLS THE, QUOTE, PRESSING NEEDS, UNQUOTE, SHE ADDRESSED IN HER OWN PROPOSED BUDGET INCLUDING HEALTH CARE, EDUCATION, PUBLIC SAFETY, THE ENVIRONMENT, AND HOUSING.

DEPARTMENTS ACROSS THOSE SECTORS WILL RECEIVE SIGNIFICANT BUMPS INCLUDING OVER 20% MORE FOR THE EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION AND CARE DEPARTMENT AND HEALTH CARE AUTHORITY.

AND JUST UNDER THAT FOR THE ENERGY MINERALS AND NATURAL RESOURCES DEPARTMENT.

THOSE FIGURES ARE PUBLISHED IN A LEGISLATIVE ANALYSIS.

THE BUDGET ALSO GIVES PUBLIC SCHOOL AND STATE EMPLOYEES 4% RAISES AND STARTS THE NEW BEHAVIORAL HEALTH TRUST FUND OFF WITH $100 MILLION DEPOSIT.

THAT'S ON TOP OF FULLY FUNDING THE SENATE'S $280 MILLION BEHAVIORAL HEALTH PACKAGE.

THE GOVERNOR SAID THE MINIMAL CUTS SHE MADE WERE, QUOTE, TARGETED AND, QUOTE, NECESSARY TO MAINTAIN FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY, END QUOTE.

SHE VETOED ONLY ABOUT $19 MILLION.

THAT INCLUDED FUNDS FOR BILLS THAT DIDN'T PASS, ALLOCATIONS THAT THE GOVERNOR CLAIMS AMOUNTED TO VIOLATIONS OF THE STATE CONSTITUTION'S ANTI-DONATION CLAUSE AND RECURRING PROGRAMS CREATED WITH NON-RECURRING DOLLARS.

MORE SIGNIFICANT THAN THE MONEY WAS THE LANGUAGE SHE SLASHED THROUGHOUT.

ARGUING THE LEGISLATURE WANDERED INTO POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS SEPARATION OF POWERS WATERS BY LIMITING THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH'S ABILITY TO MANAGE PROGRAMS.

THOSE DEPARTMENTS WILL STILL GET THAT FUNDING, BUT WITHOUT INSTRUCTION FROM LAWMAKERS ON HOW TO SPEND IT.

THE BUDGET MAINTAINS ABOUT 30% IN RESERVES AS A SAFETY NET FOR LEANER YEARS.

WHILE GOVERNOR LUJAN GRISHAM SIGNED 160 OF THE BILLS LAWMAKERS SENT TO HER DESK THIS YEAR, SHE AXED 35 OTHERS WITH HER VETO PEN.

SHE PROVIDED AN EXPLANATION FOR 18 OF THOSE BILLS AND POCKET VETOED THE OTHER 17.

THAT EFFECTIVELY MEANS SHE STUCK THEM IN A DRAWER WITHOUT ACKNOWLEDGING THEM.

AMONG HER VETOES WAS A HARD-FOUGHT TAX PACKAGE LAWMAKERS NEGOTIATED IN THE SESSION'S FINAL HOURS.

MOST OF THE CHANGES WERE SET TO TAKE EFFECT NEXT YEAR, MEANING ITS PRICE TAG OF ABOUT $113 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR, AND CLIMBING, WAS ALSO DEFERRED.

IN A STATEMENT, THE GOVERNOR CALLED THE EFFORT LAST-MINUTE DEALMAKING THAT DELAYS RELIEF, IGNORES ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY, AND UNDERMINES FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY.

LUJAN GRISHAM ALSO VETOED A COUPLE BILLS DEALING WITH LIGHTER FARE.

ONE WOULD HAVE MADE THE TORTILLA THE STATE BREAD AND TWO OTHERS WOULD HAVE CREATED LICENSE PLATES FOR LOWRIDERS AND THE NEW MEXICO UNITED SOCCER TEAM.

SHE ADMONISHED LAWMAKERS FOR PASSING THESE PROPOSALS WHILE MORE SERIOUS MATTERS LANGUISHED.

CALLING IT A, QUOTE, MISUSE OF TIME AND PRIORITIES DURING A TIME OF EXTRAORDINARY CHALLENGES, END QUOTE.

OF THE MORE SIGNIFICANT BILLS THE GOVERNOR NIXED, ONE WOULD HAVE ALLOWED LOCAL SCHOOL BOARDS TO CHOOSE THE NUMBER OF DAYS IN A SCHOOL YEAR.

THE STATE ALREADY SETS THE NUMBER OF HOURS.

HOUSE BILL 494 WOULD HAVE CREATED A PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTION FOR VETERANS.

HOUSE BILL 191 WOULD HAVE CREATED TWO WILDFIRE RELIEF PERMANENT FUNDS.

THE GOVERNOR TOOK ISSUE WITH THE WAY THE MONEY WOULD BE ADDED TO THOSE FUNDS, SAYING IT WOULD LIMIT THE STATE IN RESPONDING TO CATASTROPHIC FIRE.

SENATE BILL 17 WOULD HAVE CHANGED THE STATE PAROLE SYSTEM AND THE PAROLE BOARD.

AND ANOTHER WOULD HAVE INCREASED TRANSPARENCY AT THE ROUNDHOUSE BY REQUIRING LOBBYISTS TO FILE REPORTS DISCLOSING THEIR WORK AND WHO THEY'RE DOING IT FOR.

SHE SAID SHE AGREED WITH THE PROPOSAL'S INTENT.

LUJAN GRISHAM HAS LONG TOUTED VALUES OF GOVERNMENT TRANSPARENCY.

AT A FORUM HOSTED BY THE NEW MEXICO FOUNDATION FOR OPEN GOVERNMENT IN 2018, THE THEN-CONGRESSWOMAN AND CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR BROADLY LAID THOSE OUT.

>> Lujan Grisham: IF YOU LEAD BY CREATING THE EXPECTATION BY EVERYONE IN GOVERNMENT AND EVERYONE IN THE LEGISLATURE AND EVERY PUBLIC OFFICIAL TO CREATE AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE WE'RE COMPLETELY TRANSPARENT, YOU WILL GET A MUCH MORE OPEN GOVERNMENT.

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, AND IF WE DON'T PROVIDE THAT KNOWLEDGE TO THE PUBLIC, IT SUBJECTS ITSELF TO REAL ABUSES IN THE SYSTEM.

>> Jeff: IN JUSTIFYING HER VETO, LUJAN GRISHAM CHARACTERIZED A 48-HOUR DEADLINE TO REPORT LOBBYING ACTIVITY AS ONEROUS AND CALLED THE REQUIREMENT THAT LOBBYIST FILE UPDATES IF THEIR POSITIONS CHANGE UNCLEAR.

ABOUT HALF OF THE SCRAPPED BILLS WERE POCKET VETOED, MEANING SHE SIMPLY DIDN'T ACT ON THEM AND DIDN'T HAVE TO PROVIDE A REASON.

BUT THAT PRACTICE'S DAYS MAY BE NUMBERED.

LAWMAKERS PASSED A RESOLUTION THAT WILL PUT A QUESTION TO VOTERS NEXT YEAR ABOUT WHETHER TO AMEND THE STATE CONSTITUTION TO ELIMINATE POCKET VETOES.

IF PASSED, THE GOVERNOR WOULD NEED TO SIGN OR ACTIVELY VETO A BILL WITH AN EXPLANATION, OTHERWISE IT WOULD AUTOMATICALLY BECOME LAW.

THE CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE WOULD NOT TAKE EFFECT UNTIL 2027, MEANING IT WOULDN'T AFFECT LUJAN GRISHAM.

>> Garcia: WE USE THESE PLASTIC MATERIALS AND AFTER WE'RE DONE WITH THOSE, THEY END UP IN A LANDFILL.

FROM THERE, THOSE END UP LEECHING INTO OUR GROUNDWATER, AND THEN WE USE OUR GROUNDWATER TO IRRIGATE OUR CROPS AND WE'LL SEE THESE MICROPLASTICS GET INTO THE SOILS.

AND THAT'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST CAUSES FOR CONCERN.

>> Jeff: WE'LL HEAR ABOUT THAT UNM STUDY ON MICROPLASTICS IN THE HUMAN BRAIN ABOUT 30 MINUTES.

A GRIM MILESTONE CAME AND WENT LAST MONTH.

FIVE YEARS SINCE THE FIRST COVID-19 DIAGNOSIS IN NEW MEXICO.

THAT WAS MARCH 11th, 2020.

FAST FORWARD TO TODAY, AND COVID HAS TAKEN A BACK SEAT TO ANOTHER CONTAGIOUS DISEASE IN THE PUBLIC DISCOURSE.

A MEASLES OUTBREAK IS RAGING IN TEXAS WITH DOZENS MORE CASES DIAGNOSED IN EASTERN AND NOW SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO.

AS OF LAST FALL, FREE COVID VACCINES ARE NO LONGER AVAILABLE FOR UNINSURED NEW MEXICANS.

AND ACCORDING TO THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, NEW MEXICO AVERAGES 30 COVID CASES AND ONE HOSPITALIZATION PER WEEK.

LOWER NUMBERS ASIDE, OUR STATE IS STILL HURTING AFTER THE PANDEMIC.

THE EFFECTS OF LONG COVID LIVE WITH MANY NEW MEXICANS INCLUDING PUBLIC DEFENDER JENNIFER BURRILL, WHO WAS ONE OF THE FIRST IN OUR STATE TO TEST POSITIVE FOR THE DISEASE.

AND THIS INTERVIEW THAT FIRST AIRED LAST MARCH WITH BURRILL AND FORMER AMERICAN PUBLIC HEALTH ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT MICHAEL BIRD, SHE TELLS US ABOUT THE PHYSICAL TOLL LONG COVID HAS TAKEN.

JEN, I KNOW YOU STRUGGLED FOR PARTS OF THE LAST FOUR YEARS, ON AND OFF, WITH YOUR HEALTH, PROBABLY WITH WHAT WE KNOW AS LONG COVID.

WHAT HAS THAT BEEN LIKE FOR YOU?

WHAT HAVE YOUR SYMPTOMS BEEN?

>> Burrill: WELL THE SYMPTOMS ARE FRUSTRATING BECAUSE AT LEAST MY PROVIDERS ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH HOW TO DEAL WITH LONG COVID OR IF THERE IS A SOLUTION, WHICH I THINK WE CAN PROBABLY TALK ABOUT MORE.

MINE STARTED PRETTY SEVERELY WITH TRANSIENT PAIN, WHICH EVERYBODY THINKS IS MADE UP BECAUSE IT MOVES.

YOU'RE LIKE IT HURTS IN YOUR LEGS AND IT WILL MOVE, BUT WHEN WE LEARN IT WAS MORE OF A BLOOD DISEASE AND THAT IT WOULD FLOW THROUGH OUR BODY AND AFFECT DIFFERENT PARTS, AT DIFFERENT TIMES, THEN THAT MADE A LITTLE MORE SENSE.

MY ISSUE IS THAT WHEN I ADDRESSED MY PROVIDERS WITH THOSE ISSUES AND SOME PAIN I WAS HAVING IN MY HEAD, PRETTY SEVERE SPECIFIC PAIN, THERE WASN'T A SOLUTION OTHER THAN GIVING ME OPIOIDS, WHICH I REFUSE TO DO.

BECAUSE I WORK IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND I HAVE SEEN PEOPLE OF EVERY INCOME LEVEL GET TRAPPED INTO ADDICTION FROM THAT.

AND I WAS NOT WILLING TO DO THAT.

I WAS VERY THANKFUL THAT I -- I WASN'T ABLE TO SLEEP FROM THE PAIN.

SO, YOU GET A LITTLE CRAZY AND YOU DON'T HEAL.

YOUR BODY DOESN'T HAVE CHANCE TO HEAL.

SO, I TOOK SOME CBD OIL AT NIGHT.

IT DIDN'T FIX THE PAIN, BUT IT TOOK THE EDGE OFF AND I COULD START TO SLEEP.

BUT THAT IS A CONTINUING EFFORT.

IT GETS LITTLE BETTER, BUT I STILL HAVE A LOT OF LUNG ISSUES IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, I USED TO HIKE QUITE A BIT.

NORTHERN NEW MEXICO IS GREAT, AND NOW I CAN ONLY DO A COUPLE MILES AND I'M OUT.

I'M EXHAUSTED.

AND I'M WINDED.

AND I CAN'T DO IT.

AND IT'S EVEN SHOWN UP IN WHEN I'M IN TRIAL.

IF YOU'RE SPEAKING FOR AN HOUR, SOMETIMES YOU LOSE YOUR BREATH.

IT REMINDED ME WHEN I WAS PREGNANT AND THE BABY WOULD SIT ON YOUR LUNGS AND YOU WOULD BE LIKE, JUST LET ME CATCH MY BREATH FOR A MINUTE, YOU KNOW.

AND, SO, IT HAS AFFECTED EVERYDAY LIFE.

AND, RIGHT NOW, THE DOCTORS SEEING, AT LEAST, JUST DON'T HAVE A CURE.

>> Jeff: I KNOW WAY TOO MANY PEOPLE THAT HAVE SIMILAR STORIES.

MICHAEL, LET'S GO TO YOU FOR A MOMENT.

LONG COVID IS NOT SUPER WELL UNDERSTOOD AT THIS POINT, BUT THERE'S CERTAINLY MOUNTING EVIDENCE THAT DESPITE WHAT DENIERS SAY IS A REAL THING.

WE JUST HEARD JEN DESCRIBE HER EXPERIENCE.

WHAT IS LONG COVID?

WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT IT?

WHAT DON'T WE KNOW ABOUT IT FROM A MEDICAL PERSPECTIVE?

>> Bird: WELL, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT REALLY QUALIFIED TO SPEAK ABOUT FROM A MEDICAL PERSPECTIVE.

FIRST OF ALL, LET ME JUST STATE THAT.

I THINK YOUR EXPERIENCE IS SO WIDESPREAD THAT I THINK THAT THE RESEARCH THAT THEY'RE BEGINNING TO DO IS BEGINNING TO EXPLORE WHAT EXACTLY ARE THE IMPLICATIONS FOR INDIVIDUALS AND ALL OF OUR BODY'S SYSTEMS.

HEART, LUNGS, EVERYTHING ELSE.

SO, I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF RESEARCH THAT HAS BEEN STARTED, BUT I THINK IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN WHAT'S GOING TO BE THE RESULT OF THAT AND WHAT SORT OF TREATMENT OPTIONS WILL BE AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE.

>> Jeff: MICHAEL, PAST LONG COVID, WHAT DO YOU FEEL LIKE HAVE BEEN SOME OF THE OTHER LONG-TERM AND LASTING IMPACTS ON THE STATE AND ITS PUBLIC HEALTH SYSTEMS FROM THE PANDEMIC?

>> Bird: WELL, I THINK THAT, AS YOU'VE REFERENCED, THAT MANY OF THE PROVIDERS THAT HAVE BEEN IN OUR SYSTEMS ARE RETIRING.

MANY OF THEM ARE BURNED OUT.

MANY OF THEM ARE LOOKING AT OTHER, SORT OF, CAREER OPPORTUNITIES.

AND IT REALLY GOES BACK TO OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM AS IT EXISTS.

AS IT EXISTED PRIOR TO COVID, WE REALLY HAVE NOT -- WE DON'T -- IN MY OPINION, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND WHAT WE DO HAVE IS REALLY AN INSURANCE INDUSTRY.

AND WITH MORE AND MORE PHYSICIANS AND THE ACTUAL PROVIDERS, NURSES, AND THE PEOPLE WHO SEE PATIENTS AND ARE PROVIDING THE CARE, MANY OF THEM ARE TOTALLY FRUSTRATED WITH THE SYSTEM BECAUSE IT IS NOT FOCUSED ON PATIENT CARE.

IT'S BECOME A FINANCIAL SYSTEM, NOT A SYSTEM OF MEETING NEEDS OF PATIENTS.

SO, I THINK UNTIL WE REALLY STEP BACK AND FOCUS ON WHAT THE PRIORITY NEEDS TO BE IN TERMS OF FOCUSING ON PATIENTS, FOCUSING ON PUBLIC HEALTH AND COMMUNITY HEALTH, AND REALLY NEED TO, I THINK, REALLY STEP BACK AND FOCUS ON WHAT REALLY IS IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF CREATING HEALTH IN A COMMUNITY.

AND IT'S NOT NECESSARILY MORE HOSPITALS.

IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE INSURANCE SYSTEM AS IT EXISTS, WHICH I CLEARLY HAVE ISSUES WITH, MYSELF.

AND RESOURCING -- I MEAN, AGAIN, I'M GOING TO BACK TO RESOURCING THOSE PROVIDERS AND THOSE SYSTEMS THAT ARE ACTUALLY PROVIDING CARE IN A MANNER THAT IT MEETS THE COMMUNITY'S NEEDS.

AND IT HAS TO BE ALL ABOUT COMMUNITY BECAUSE AS INDIVIDUALS, YOU KNOW, INDIVIDUALS CAN GET WHAT THEY NEED, BUT WE NEED COMMUNITY HEALTH AND PUBLIC HEALTH IS REALLY ABOUT COMMUNITY HEALTH.

>> Burrill: AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS, IF I CAN JUMP IN, IS I KNOW WHEN PEOPLE ARE TESTING POSITIVE FOR COVID THEIR PROVIDERS WON'T LET THEM COME IN THE OFFICE.

SO, THEY'RE LIKE, WELL, WHEN THAT'S OVER THEN YOU CAN COME SEE ME, WHICH IS REALLY FRUSTRATING.

BECAUSE HOW DO YOU ADDRESS THE MEDICAL CARE?

YOU'RE NOT.

AND FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ENDED UP IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM, WHICH IS WHAT THE GOVERNOR WAS FOCUSED ON, HOW MANY PEOPLE IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM, MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE WERE NOT INSURED, SO THE STATE PAID A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY.

I THINK IT BEGS THE QUESTION, WOULD WE HAVE BETTER OFF FINANCIALLY DOING UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE HERE IN NEW MEXICO BECAUSE WE'RE ALREADY SPENDING TONS OF MONEY TO TREAT PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT INSURED.

SO, YOU'RE JUST SHIFTING MONEY FROM ONE PLACE TO ANOTHER.

AND WITH THE UNIVERSAL CARE YOU CAN GET PEOPLE BASIC EVERYDAY KIND OF CARE THAT MIGHT PREVENT THE LARGER ISSUES WHERE YOU'RE SPENDING TONS OF MONEY IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM IF YOU CAN GET THEM A FLU SHOT OR THOSE KINDS OF ISSUES EARLY ON THAT ARE PREVENTATIVE THAT YOU WOULD ACTUALLY SAVE A TON OF MONEY IN THE LONG RUN.

>> Jeff: I WASN'T TO RETURN TO THE THEME OF COMMUNITY.

I WAS REALLY INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, AND ASK A BROADER QUESTION.

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WE ALL, EVERYONE WHO LIVES ON THIS PLANET IN THIS COUNTRY, IN THIS STATE, BEAR SORT OF A COLLECTIVE SCAR AS A RESULT OF HAVING LIVED THROUGH THIS AND, OF COURSE, WE'RE NOT FINISHED THROUGH THIS.

AND I MEAN THAT, SORT OF, FROM AN EMOTIONAL STANDPOINT.

MAYBE EVEN A SPIRITUAL STANDPOINT, A SOCIETAL STANDPOINT.

MICHAEL, I'LL START WITH YOU.

I'M INTERESTED, DOES THAT RESONATE WITH YOU?

>> Bird: YES, IT DOES.

I THINK THAT WE REALLY -- I MEAN, IT'S LIKE A WOUND.

YOU KNOW, WE -- MANY INDIVIDUALS IN OUR SOCIETY WERE WOUNDED, HAVE BEEN WOUNDED BY THIS.

AND THE WOUND -- THE INJURY IS COVID.

THE INJURY ARE SYSTEMS THAT DIDN'T MEET THE NEEDS OF OUR COMMUNITIES.

YOU KNOW, THE MEDICAL SYSTEM, THE ECONOMIC SYSTEM, THE SOCIAL SYSTEM, THE HOUSING SYSTEM, THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM, THE CRIMINAL SYSTEM.

ALL OF THESE SYSTEMS ARE ALL PART AND PARCEL OF WHAT CREATES A HEALTHY COMMUNITY.

IN MY MIND, WE REALLY HAVEN'T INVESTED IN THOSE INSTITUTIONS AND REALLY FOCUSED ON MEETING THE NEEDS OF OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS.

AND WE HAD PROBLEMS BEFORE.

A LOT OF THESE ISSUES HAVE EXISTED FOR QUITE SOME TIME, BUT WHAT COVID DID WAS EXACERBATE ALL OF THESE ISSUES.

SO, WE'RE LEFT -- IT'S LIKE A HOUSE BEING TORN APART.

SO, IT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME AND EFFORT TO REBUILD -- THE HOUSE, REBUILD AND CREATE SYSTEMS THAT BEST MEET THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS STATE AND IN THE COUNTRY.

AND UNTIL WE REALLY -- MAYBE IT'S A COME TO JESUS MOMENT.

WE REALLY NEED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED.

WHY DID IT HAPPEN?

HOW DID IT HAPPEN?

AND WHAT CAN WE DO TO ENSURE THAT THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN?

>> Jeff: JEN, ARE WE DOING ENOUGH TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION TO UNDERSTAND THAT SCAR OR WOUND THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT?

>> Burrill: NO, AND I THINK YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT IN TERMS OF THE WOUNDS.

BUT I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME GENERATIONAL TRAUMA.

WE HAVE A WHOLE GENERATION OF CHILDREN WHO WATCHED THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS DIE IN THEIR HOME WITH NO ABILITY TO TRY TO STOP IT.

AND NO CONTROL OVER WHAT HAPPENED NEXT.

WE ALSO HAVE CHILDREN WHO WENT THROUGH SEVERAL YEARS, SOMETIMES THREE YEARS, IN ISOLATION.

AND THEY'RE DOING ZOOM SCHOOL, OR VIDEO SCHOOL, FROM THEIR BEDROOMS.

SO, THEY LOST ALL THAT SOCIALIZATION.

THEY LOST A LOT OF PERSPECTIVE ON THE WORLD, AND A LOT OF PSYCHOLOGICAL TRAUMA FROM IT.

SO, I KNOW WE -- AND THE SCHOOL SYSTEMS ARE NOT DEALING WITH THAT PROPERLY.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH IT IN THE CHILDREN WHO ARE GOING TO BE OUR LEADERS PRETTY SOON, WHICH IS CONCERNING.

AND WE'RE DEFINITELY NOT DEALING WITH IT IN OUR GENERATION EITHER.

WE'RE JUST TOLD TO GET BACK TO WORK, IT'S OVER.

AND IT'S NOT REALLY OVER.

YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT.

>> Jeff: WE SPENT A BUNCH OF TIME THIS WEEK TALKING ABOUT THE ASPECTS OF AMERICAN LIFE AND THE SYSTEMS THAT EXPOSED OR REEXPOSED AS A RESULT OF THIS.

I WANT TO STICK WITH YOU FOR A MOMENT, JEN.

WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED FROM THIS?

>> Burrill: THERE'S SO MUCH, RIGHT.

I THINK WE HAVE LEARNED A LOT OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING TODAY, IS THAT WE'RE REALLY NOT FOCUSED ON HUMANITY.

WE'RE REALLY FOCUSED ON PROFIT.

AND EVEN THE COURT SYSTEM THAT'S NOT A PROFIT-BASED SYSTEM IS JUST MOVING THINGS LONG AND NOT REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE OUTCOMES OR THE JUSTICE IN TERMS OF A RESULT.

SO, I THINK THAT'S HIGHLIGHTED THE FACT THAT WE HAVE MOVED AWAY FROM PROTECTING THE INDIVIDUAL, WHICH IS WHAT OUR CONSTITUTION IS ABOUT.

IT'S NOT ABOUT PROTECTING THE GOVERNMENT.

IT'S ABOUT PROTECTING THE INDIVIDUAL.

AND WE HAVE MOVED SO FAR AWAY FROM THAT IN TERMS OF PROTECTING, YOU KNOW, THE FINANCIAL DOLLAR.

AND JUST THE PRODUCTIVITY OF IT ALL.

WE SAW A SHIFT IN THE SUPREME COURT SEVERAL YEARS BEFORE COVID THAT WAS FOCUSED ON JUDICIAL ECONOMY, NOT ON THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL.

AND I THINK THAT HAS JUST EXACERBATED THROUGH THIS.

THAT WE'RE JUST GOING TO MAKE SURE WE'RE STILL CHECKING THE BOXES, THAT WE'VE DONE EVERYTHING WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, AND FORGOT THE REAL PURPOSE.

>> Jeff: MICHAEL, I WAS GOING TO END THE SEGMENT WITH A QUESTION ALONG THE LINES OF ARE WE READY FOR WHATEVER 2.0 OF THIS IS.

I THINK WE HAVE WRESTLED THAT QUESTION TO THE GROUND.

WE'RE NOT READY FOR WHATEVER 2.0 IS.

INSTEAD, I'D LIKE TO END LETTING YOU BOTH WEIGH IN IN THE LAST COUPLE OF MINUTES WITH THIS.

WE COULD SPEND FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER TALKING ABOUT THIS WAY THIS HAS CHANGED OUR POLITICS.

HOW HAS THE COVID EXPERIENCE CHANGED THE WAY WE THINK AND TALK ABOUT THE TRUTH IN THIS COUNTRY?

>> Bird: OH, BOY, AN EASY ONE, RIGHT?

[ALL LAUGH] >> Jeff: THE FINAL EXAM.

>> Bird: TRUTH, I THINK WE NEED TO REDEFINE WHAT IT IS BECAUSE IT'S BECOME SOME SORT OF AN ABSTRACT CONCEPT THAT PEOPLE ARE DEFINING IN A VARIETY OF WAYS.

AND I DON'T -- THE QUOTE THAT COMES TO MIND, AND I'LL PROBABLY END UP IN TROUBLE.

THE QUOTE THAT COMES TO MIND IS A QUOTE FROM LAKOTA INDIANS BACK IN THE 1800s.

THEY COINED THE PHRASE WHITE MAN SPEAKS WITH FORKED TONGUE.

NOT THAT THE WHITE MAN IS THE ONLY ONE THAT SPEAKS WITH THE FORKED TONGUE, BUT I THINK THAT, IN FACT, REFLECTED SOMETHING THAT WAS REAL THEN, AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS STILL VERY REAL TODAY.

THAT TRUTH, WHICH WE TALK ABOUT A LOT, BUT WHAT DOES IT REALLY MEAN?

AND HOW DOES IT PLAY OUT?

BECAUSE IT'S AN ABSTRACT TERM.

PEOPLE ARE INTERPRETING TRUTH IN ALL KINDS OF WAYS.

>> Jeff: MICHAEL, THAT'S GOOD TROUBLE IS WHAT I'VE HEARD THAT CALLED.

IF THAT'S GOING TO GET YOU IN TROUBLE, IT'S THE GOOD KIND.

JEN, I WANT TO GIVE YOU THE FINAL WORD ON THAT.

HOW DO YOU THINK THIS HAS IMPACTED THE WAY WE THINK ABOUT WHAT'S REAL AND WHAT'S NOT?

>> Burrill: I THINK IT MAKES US MUCH MORE SKEPTICAL.

AND I THINK SCIENCE HAS ALWAYS BEEN FOCUSED ON THE TRUTH, BUT THE TRUTH CAN CHANGE AS WE LEARN MORE INFORMATION.

AND I THINK MOST PEOPLE WANT OUR LEADERS TO COME OUT AND GIVE THEM A DEFINITIVE ANSWER, AND THAT'S JUST NOT THE WAY SCIENCE WORKS.

SO, THEY WERE TRYING TO PROVIDE US WITH THE INFORMATION THAT THEY HAD AT THE TIME, AND THEN AS THEY'VE CONTINUED TO LEARN MORE, THEN IT CHANGES, RIGHT.

NOW, THESE GENERAL PEOPLE THINK THAT -- AND REALLY UNDERSTANDING HOW SCIENCE WORKS, THINK THEY WERE LIED TO ALONG THE WAY.

WHICH MAKES THEM DISTRUSTFUL OF ANYTHING THAT WILL COME OUT OF LONG-TERM RESEARCH.

AND I THINK THAT'S CONCERNING.

AND I THINK THAT WILL SPREAD.

I DON'T THINK IT'S JUST GOING TO BE CONTAINED TO SCIENCE.

I THINK IT MAKES A DISTRUST OF INSTITUTION AND SYSTEMS BECAUSE WE DON'T BELIEVE THEM AND WE KNOW THEY HARM PEOPLE.

>> Jeff: I CAN'T THANK YOU ALL ENOUGH FOR THE CONVERSATION TODAY, DIFFICULT AS IT WAS.

I HOPE THAT YOU WILL BOTH COME BACK SOMETIME SO WE CAN CONTINUE IT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Burrill: THANKS, JEFF.

>> Bird: THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY.

>> Jeff: MANY THANKS TO MICHAEL BIRD AND JENNIFER BURRILL.

IF YOU THINK YOU'RE EXHIBITING ANY LONG COVID SYMPTOMS, FROM FATIGUE TO BRAIN FOG, PLEASE CONSIDER VISITING YOUR PRIMARY CARE DOCTOR.

NOW, BACK IN 2023 BOTH THE WALMART AND WALGREEN'S LOCATIONS IN ALBUQUERQUE'S INTERNATIONAL DISTRICT CLOSED THEIR DOORS, AND WITH THEM WENT KEY PHARMACY OPTIONS FOR AREA RESIDENTS.

AS A RESULT, THE ALBUQUERQUE HEALTH EQUITY COUNCIL, LAST YEAR, LABELED THE NEIGHBORHOOD A PHARMACY DESERT.

TODAY, BOTH LOCATIONS REMAIN SHUTTERED.

SO, WE WANTED TO REVISIT A CONVERSATION WE HAD LAST SUMMER WITH CITY COUNCILOR NICHOLE ROGERS WHO REPRESENTS THE AREA.

JUST A MONTH AFTER THIS INTERVIEW FIRST AIRED, CITY DESK ABQ REPORTED THAT THE WALMART LOCATION WENT UNDER CONTRACT FOR SALE, BUT IT FELL THROUGH.

AND THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL REPORTED, JUST THIS MONTH, THAT THE PROPERTY IS STILL ON THE MARKET, AND THE CITY REMAINS OPEN TO WORKING WITH A FUTURE OWNER ON REDEVELOPING IT.

COUNCILLOR ROGERS EXPLAINED WHO BEARS THE BRUNT WHEN PHARMACEUTICAL SERVICES GO AWAY AND WHAT SOLUTIONS MAY EXIST.

>> Lou: ALBUQUERQUE CITY COUNCILOR NICHOLE ROGERS, THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> Rogers: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Lou: I WANT TO START BROADLY HERE.

WHEN CONSIDERING THE INTERNATIONAL DISTRICT AS A PHARMACY DESERT, WHICH RESIDENTS ARE MOST IMPACTED?

>> Rogers: I'M SO GLAD YOU STARTED WITH THAT QUESTION BECAUSE FOR ME THAT'S REALLY WHO I'M MOST WORRIED ABOUT IS OUR MOST VULNERABLE.

SO, OUR SENIORS, AND I THINK SPECIFICALLY TRANSIT-DEPENDENT RESIDENTS OF DISTRICT SIX.

WHICH FROM THE DATA THAT I'VE BEEN PULLING, WE HAVE OVER 8,000 HOUSEHOLDS IN DISTRICT SIX THAT DO NOT HAVE A VEHICLE.

AND THERE ARE EVEN SEGMENTS OF FAMILIES THAT HAVE VEHICLES, BUT KIDS HAVE TO RIDE THE BUS.

ONE PARENT HAS TO RIDE THE BUS.

THERE ARE A LOT OF TRANSIT-DEPENDENT FOLKS IN DISTRICT SIX THAT NOW HAVE TO GO FURTHER.

AND IF THEY NEED TO GET THEIR MEDICATION ON A SUNDAY EVENING, EVEN IF THE PHARMACY IS OPEN, TRANSIT DOES NOT RUN SUNDAY AFTER 7:00 P.M.

SO I THINK, FOR ME, IT'S THE MOST VULNERABLE THAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT, ESPECIALLY OUR SENIORS.

>> Lou: OKAY.

WHAT OPTIONS ARE AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW FOR PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THAT AREA WHO DON'T HAVE ACCESS OR THE ABILITY TO DRIVE?

>> Rogers: WELL, I THINK RIGHT NOW BECAUSE WALGREENS IS GONE, CVS IS GONE, WALMART IS GONE, THE CLOSEST PLACE I WOULD SAY IS SMITH'S.

BUT, NO, THAT SMITH'S ON LOMAS DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A PHARMACY.

THEY DON'T.

JOHN'S PHARMACY, I THINK, IS THE CLOSEST THAT I CAN THINK OF, IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD JUST AFTER WYOMING AND CENTRAL AREA.

OUTSIDE OF THAT -- >> Lou: HOW DO THEY GET THERE?

HOW DO THEY GET THEIR MEDICATION?

>> Rogers: THAT'S WHY I'M WORRIED.

PEOPLE ARE EITHER HAVING TO SWITCH TO DELIVERY.

AND THEN IF YOU'RE DOING DELIVERY SERVICES NOW THEY'RE CHARGING FOR DELIVERY FOR SOME BECAUSE THEY'RE USING PLACES LIKE DOORDASH.

I HAVE A CHRONIC ILLNESS.

I GET MEDICATION EVERY THREE MONTHS.

SO, EVEN TRYING TO, MYSELF, NAVIGATE THAT SYSTEM TO GET STUFF -- I'VE BEEN TRYING.

OKAY, LET'S SEE, LET ME GO INTO THE WALGREENS APP LIKE THEY TELL YOU TO DO AND SEE IF YOU CAN SWITCH TO DELIVERY AND HOW QUICK THAT IS.

I STILL HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO FIGURE THAT OUT, EVEN MYSELF AS AN INTELLIGENT PERSON THAT IS REALLY GOOD AT TECHNOLOGY.

I THINK RIGHT NOW THAT IS THE OPTION.

ESPECIALLY FOR OUR SENIOR HOME-BOUND FOLKS AND TRANSIT-DEPENDENT FOLKS IS THEY'RE TRYING TO NAVIGATE HOW TO SWITCH TO A COMPANY THAT WILL DELIVER YOUR MEDICATION DIRECTLY TO YOU.

SAME WITH FOOD.

FOOD DELIVERY SERVICES.

AGAIN, THAT'S AN EXTRA COST AND BURDEN FOR FOLKS WHO ARE -- IN POVERTY.

>> Lou: YOU'VE PROPOSED SIGNING UP RESIDENTS FOR A PROGRAM CALLED EXPRESS SCRIPTS.

SIMILAR TO DOORDASH, WHICH YOU BROUGHT UP, BUT FOR PHARMACIES AND MEDICATION.

HOW EXACTLY WOULD A LARGE-SCALE ROLLOUT OF A PROGRAM LIKE THAT WORK?

AND WOULD IT BE MORE DIFFICULT FOR ANYBODY IN PARTICULAR?

>> Rogers: IT IS DIFFICULT.

BECAUSE I THINK WHAT I LEARNED FROM MY TIME IN HEALTH CARE IS THAT'S DEPENDENT UPON IF YOUR SPECIFIC PROVIDER FOR YOUR HEALTH CARE ALLOWS YOU TO USE EXPRESS SCRIPTS.

NOT EVERY CARRIER OF EVERY HEALTH CARE OFFERER IN OUR STATE CAN USE EXPRESS SCRIPTS.

I THINK THAT'S THE BIGGEST BARRIER.

WE WOULD NEED -- AS I'M RESEARCHING, WE WOULD NEED REALLY STATE-WIDE LEGISLATION OR SOMETHING TO MANDATE THAT OUR MCOS ALLOW FOLKS TO USE DELIVERY SERVICES LIKE EXPRESS SCRIPTS.

I THINK -- HOW DO WE MANDATE THAT THEY CAN'T CHARGE DELIVERY FOR THAT?

BUT THE PUSHBACK IS GOING TO BE HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT AND EAT THAT COST.

SO THERE'S A BALANCE TO THAT AS WELL.

THIS ONE IS A TOUGH CONVERSATION, BUT WHAT I DO KNOW FROM RESEARCH IS WHERE LOCAL SPENDING IS HIGHER FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS LIFE EXPECTANCY IS HIGHER.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE'S LIFE EXPECTANCY.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT FOOD DESERTS WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT PHARMACY DESERTS, AND THE SUPPLY CHAIN FOR BOTH OF THOSE ITEMS.

HOW DO WE EVEN GET OUR MEDICINES TO ALBUQUERQUE?

HOW DOES THAT WORK?

WHAT IS OUR FOOD SUPPLY CHAIN?

WHAT IS OUR MEDICAL SUPPLY CHAIN?

THOSE ARE BIGGER QUESTIONS THAT -- BOTTOM LINE IS THIS IS PEOPLE'S LIFE EXPECTANCY.

IT'S NOT OKAY THAT PEOPLE WHO CHOOSE TO LIVE IN DISTRICT SIX HAVE TO HAVE LOWER LIFE EXPECTANCY BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE FRESH FOOD AND PHARMACIES TO GET THE MEDICINE WE NEED.

>> Lou: HOW DID WE GET TO THIS POINT?

WHY HAVE PHARMACY SERVICES IN YOUR DISTRICT DWINDLED TO THIS LEVEL?

AND WHAT ROADBLOCKS ARE THERE TO BRINGING THEM BACK?

>> Rogers: I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF FACTORS.

WE OBVIOUSLY HEAR ABOUT THEFT IN PLACES LIKE WALGREENS, CVS, WALMART.

WE'VE HEARD OF THAT CIRCLING IN THE DISTRICT.

I FUNDAMENTALLY FEEL LIKE WE'VE ALWAYS HAD CERTAIN TYPES OF THEFT IN RETAIL.

I'VE WORKED IN RETAIL.

THERE WERE LOSS PREVENTION SPECIALISTS.

INSURANCE TO COVER LOSS PREVENTION TYPES OF INITIATIVES.

I THINK THE DIFFERENCE HERE THOUGH IS THE ORGANIZED RINGS THAT WERE GOING IN AND PUTTING PEOPLE'S SAFETY AT RISK IN THE STORES.

I THINK COMPANIES HAD TO MAKE HARD DECISIONS ABOUT THAT.

THAT'S A BIGGER CONVERSATION ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY.

INFRASTRUCTURE IN MY DISTRICT AROUND DO WE HAVE NICE PARKS.

PEOPLE DON'T THINK THAT MATTERS, BUT IT DOES MATTER TO HAVE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR PARKS AND ROADS AND LIGHTING AND PLACES PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE, WHERE BUSINESSES WANT TO COME AND STAY.

I THINK THAT'S A PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUE.

THAT'S A HEALTH CARE SYSTEM ISSUE, ACCESS ISSUE THAT WE HAVE.

THERE'S SO MANY FACTORS TO THIS.

WE HAVE -- WHEN YOU THINK OF UN-SHELTERED FOLKS, NOT EVEN JUST TRANSIT-DEPENDENT FOLKS, THE MEDICAL NEEDS ARE HUGE FOR OUR COMMUNITY.

>> Lou: NOW, THE HEALTH EQUITY COUNCIL HAS PUT TOGETHER A MAP OF PROPOSED PHARMACY SITES.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON DEVELOPING THOSE SITES INTO NEW PHARMACIES?

AND I KNOW YOU TOUCHED ON IT A BIT, BUT WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE FIRST TO ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN?

>> Rogers: YEAH, I THINK FOR DISTRICT SIX SPECIFICALLY, I THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME TOUGH CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHY OUR DISTRICT HAS HISTORICALLY NOT BEEN INVESTED IN.

I THINK THAT'S AN ISSUE.

I THINK WE HAVE TO BEGIN TO FLOOD THE AREAS THAT NEED IT MOST WITH ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE.

WE NEED MORE CLINICS THAT OFFER PHARMACY SERVICES IN THE CLINIC.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN WORK WITH OUR HEALTH PARTNERS ON RIGHT NOW.

AND WITH PEOPLE LIKE OWNERS OF JOHN'S PHARMACY TO SAY -- OUR MOM AND POP ONES THAT HAVE BEEN IN THIS COMMUNITY, HOW DO WE HELP THEM EXPAND?

AND IF THEY'RE WILLING TO DO THAT, HOW DO WE HELP THEM WITH THE ACCESS TO CAPITAL TO BE ABLE TO EXPAND?

I THINK THAT'S -- I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US FIGURE THAT OUT.

>> Lou: OKAY.

WE KNOW WALMART CLOSED IN MARCH, 2023.

WALGREENS CLOSED NOVEMBER, 2023.

THOSE BUILDINGS ARE EMPTY IN THE CENTRAL PART OF YOUR DISTRICT.

ARE THERE ANY PLANS IN THE WORKS TO DEVELOP THOSE SITES TO ADDRESS THIS PHARMACY DESERT, BUT ALSO WHAT YOU MENTIONED TOO, GROCERY ACCESS IN THE INTERNATIONAL DISTRICT?

>> Rogers: ABSOLUTELY.

THAT'S TOP OF MY PRIORITIES.

I THINK BECAUSE IT'S TOP OF THE COMMUNITY'S PRIORITIES.

WE ABSOLUTELY ARE CONTINUING TO TRY TO ACQUIRE WALGREENS, CVS, WALMART.

I WILL KEEP SAYING WALMART IS REALLY HOLDING OUT FOR THE HIGHEST BIDDERS, I THINK.

AND SO, SADLY FOR ME, MY JOB IS -- I THINK FOR THESE PARTICULAR SITES, TO LOOK AT WHAT'S AVAILABLE TO US IF THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO SELL TO THE CITY.

TALKING WITH DEVELOPERS WHO MAY HAVE ACCESS TO THE CAPITAL THAT I DON'T IN DISTRICT SIX, RIGHT NOW.

TO BE ABLE TO SAY, HEY, HOW CAN YOU HELP IN TALKS WITH WALMART, IN TALKS WITH THESE OTHER COMPANIES.

THAT'S KIND OF MY STRATEGY.

LET'S TALK TO ALL OF THE DEVELOPERS WHO ARE INTERESTED IN THESE PROPERTIES, AND TALK AT THE SAME TIME AS WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO ACQUIRE THEM.

I THINK WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER.

I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE ALL HANDS ON DECK.

WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO STACK CAPITAL TO MAKE THESE PROJECTS HAPPEN IN DISTRICT SIX.

I'D LIKE TO SEE -- A GROUP OF US, FROM COMMUNITY, WENT TO GO SEE THE SILVER STREET MARKET MODEL WITH AFFORDABLE HOUSING, FARMS.

THE ONLY THING WE WOULD ADD TO THAT IS A CLINIC WITH A PHARMACY TO SEE HOW WE CAN RECREATE THAT IN DISTRICT SIX.

THE CITY OWNS THE KATHRYN AND SAN MATEO LOT, WHAT IF WE CAN RECREATE THAT THERE WITH THE CLINIC?

COMMUNITY WANTS ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE, FOOD, HOUSING, AND DAYCARE.

THOSE ARE THE TOP FOUR THINGS THAT I'M HEARING DURING OUR STRATEGY SESSIONS AND EVERYTHING AS WE'RE OUT IN THE COMMUNITY.

SO, WHY CAN'T WE DO THAT IN A DEVELOPMENT AND KEEP THAT MODEL GOING THROUGHOUT?

AND HOMEOWNERSHIP AND POVERTY.

WE HAVE TO BE WORKING ON POVERTY.

THIS IS THE ROOT UNDERLYING CAUSE OF ALL OF THIS.

IF A RESIDENT IN DISTRICT SIX IS NOT IN POVERTY THEY CAN GO TO -- THEY HAVE A CAR TO GO SOMEWHERE TO GET THEIR MEDICATION.

THEY CAN AFFORD THE DELIVERY TO COME HERE.

ALL OF THESE THINGS TIE TO POVERTY.

THAT'S THE ROOT CAUSE OF ALL OF THIS.

THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD REALLY BE TACKLING.

>> Lou: WHAT CAN WE DO TO MAKE PEOPLE AWARE THAT ALL OF THESE ISSUES ARE CONNECTED?

AND WHAT'S THE FIRST STEP TO ADDRESSING THOSE UNDERLYING CAUSES?

>> Rogers: YEAH, I THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME EDUCATION FOR COMMUNITY, AND NOT MAKE POVERTY SUCH AN OTHER THING, LIKE THAT'S HAPPENING TO SOMEONE ELSE.

BECAUSE AS WE'RE IN THE COMMUNITY TEACHING PEOPLE ABOUT SITUATIONAL POVERTY -- AND HAVE YOU EVER HAD TO POSTPONE A BILL?

THAT'S SITUATIONAL POVERTY.

AND EVERYBODY CAN RELATE TO THAT.

THERE'S GENERATIONAL POVERTY.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE SEE A LOT OF IN DISTRICT SIX.

THE GENERATIONAL POVERTY THAT KEEPS PEOPLE IN THIS CYCLE THAT YOU CAN'T GO TO YOUR MOM AND SAY, HEY MOM, HOW DO I GET A LEG UP.

BECAUSE MOM WAS IN POVERTY, GRANDMA WAS IN POVERTY, GREAT-GRANDMA WAS IN POVERTY.

I THINK WE HAVE TO DO THE EDUCATION SO PEOPLE DON'T SEE IT AS SUCH AN OTHER THING, AND THAT YOU TOO HAVE DEALT WITH SITUATIONAL POVERTY.

EVERYBODY HAS DEALT WITH SITUATIONAL POVERTY AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER.

EVERYBODY'S HEARD THE ROB PETER TO PAY PAUL SAYING.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE YOU COME FROM.

WE'VE ALL HAD SOME TYPE OF SITUATIONAL POVERTY AT SOME POINT IN OUR LIFE.

AND UNDERSTANDING THAT NOT EVERYBODY GETS THE SAME FINANCIAL PRINCIPLES.

THAT'S WHY I TALKED ABOUT IT IN THE CAMPAIGN AND WE'RE DOING IT AND DELIVERING ON IT IN THE OFFICE OF FINANCIAL EMPOWERMENT.

THAT'S ALREADY OFF THE GROUND.

WE'VE GOT THE STRATEGIC PLANNING GRANT FROM -- AND WE'RE ALSO GETTING THE IMPLEMENTATION GRANT FROM THE CITIES FOR FINANCIAL EMPOWERMENT.

THIS IS EXCITING BECAUSE FOR ONCE WE CAN FOCUS ON -- ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IS IMPORTANT.

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IS ABOUT BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT.

FINANCIAL EMPOWERMENT IS REALLY ABOUT GIVING PEOPLE IN POVERTY THE TOOLS GET THEMSELVES OUT.

THAT'S ONLY GOING TO HELP OUR COMMUNITY.

>> Lou: ALL RIGHT.

CITY COUNCILOR NICHOLE ROGERS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> Rogers: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Jeff: THANKS TO LOU, AND TO ALBUQUERQUE CITY COUNCILOR NICHOLE ROGERS.

EARLIER THIS MONTH, THE NEW YORK TIMES HIGHLIGHTED RESEARCH CONDUCTED AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO ON MICROPLASTICS IN THE HUMAN BODY.

IT'S A STUDY WE FIRST TOLD YOU ABOUT IN FEBRUARY THAT SHOWS THE BRAIN ACCUMULATES MORE MICROPLASTICS THAN ANY OTHER ORGAN.

NOW THAT THESE TROUBLING RESULTS HAVE HIT NATIONAL HEADLINES, WE WANTED TO REVISIT THAT CONVERSATION SENIOR PRODUCER HAD WITH DR. MARCUS GARCIA, ONE OF THE RESEARCHERS THAT MADE THAT STARTLING DISCOVERY.

>> Lou: DR. MARCUS GARCIA, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Garcia: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> Lou: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT UNM HEALTH SCIENCE'S TWO RECENT STUDIES ON MICROPLASTICS IN THE HUMAN BODY.

THE PLACENTA LAST YEAR, AND MOST RECENTLY PUBLISHED THE BRAIN.

I WANT TO START GENERALLY.

WHAT ARE MICROPLASTICS?

HOW DO THEY ENTER OUR BODIES?

AND WHY ARE YOU AND YOUR TEAM SO FOCUSED ON STUDYING THEM?

>> Garcia: YEAH, THESE ARE VERY GREAT QUESTIONS TO HAVE.

SO, JUST TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND AROUND WHAT MICROPLASTICS ARE, WHEN WE THINK OF PLASTICS IN GENERAL, I MEAN, A BOTTLE OR EVEN JUST TUPPERWARE AND THINGS ALONG THOSE LINES, WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING WITH THOSE IS AS THEY START TO DEGRADE OR GET OLDER, THEY START TO BREAK DOWN INTO WHAT WE CALL THESE MICROPLASTICS.

WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING IS WE USE THESE PLASTIC MATERIALS AND AFTER WE'RE DONE WITH THOSE THEY END UP IN THE LANDFILL.

THEN, OVER THE NEXT 20-30 YEARS, THEY SIT IN THAT LANDFILL AND THE SUN IS HITTING THEM, THEY'RE ALSO BEING DEGRADED JUST BECAUSE OF COMPACTING THOSE LANDFILLS DOWN, WHICH STARTS TO BREAK THOSE INTO THESE MICROPLASTICS THAT WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT.

THEN FROM THERE, THOSE END UP LEECHING INTO OUR GROUNDWATER AND THEN WE USE OUR GROUNDWATER TO IRRIGATE OUR CROPS, AND WE'LL SEE THESE MICROPLASTICS GET INTO THE SOILS.

AND THAT'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST CAUSES FOR CONCERN.

>> Lou: OKAY.

SO, JUST TO NAIL THAT DOWN, IT'S MOSTLY FROM THESE INDIRECT SOURCES, NOT SO MUCH THE FIVE-YEAR-OLD PIECE OF TUPPERWARE I HAVE IN MY CABINET OR THE WATER BOTTLES THAT I'M DRINKING OUT OF?

>> Garcia: YES.

EXACTLY.

JUST TO KIND OF BRING IT -- MORE, YOU MAY BREAK OFF A PIECE OF -- SO, IN THE MEDIA, WE DO SEE A LOT AROUND THE CUTTING BOARDS.

AND WHEN YOU'RE TAKING PIECES OFF AS YOU'RE CUTTING THOSE ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO BE VERY LARGE PIECES.

SO MACRO-PLASTICS.

OUR BODY HAS A GOOD WAY OF JUST GETTING RID OF A LOT OF THOSE BIGGER PIECES.

IT'S MORE OF THE SMALLER STUFF THAT WE REALLY HAVE TO BE CONCERNED WITH.

SO, YES, YOU ARE CORRECT ON THAT.

>> Lou: WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT WHAT THESE MICROPLASTICS ARE DOING TO OUR BODIES?

ARE THEY INHERENTLY DANGEROUS OR HARMFUL?

>> Garcia: SO, THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

AND WE CAN'T GIVE ANY DEFINITIVE ANSWERS RIGHT NOW.

IN TERMS OF LOOKING AT CERTAIN TRENDS AND ALL THE RESEARCH THAT'S COMING OUT, WE'RE STARTING TO SAY A LOT OF TRENDS TOWARDS THOSE DIRECTIONS.

NOW, THE MAIN THING WITH THIS STUDY IS WE WANTED TO BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY ARE THESE PLASTICS BEING ABSORBED INTO THE BODY AS WELL AS ENDING UP IN SPECIFIC AND VITAL ORGANS AS WELL.

SO, THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE FOCUSED ON THE LIVER, KIDNEY, AS WELL AS THE BRAIN.

AND WE ARE SEEING THEM THERE.

WE NOW USE THIS INFORMATION BECAUSE USING THIS NEW TECHNOLOGY THAT WE'VE CREATED, OR THIS NEW METHODOLOGY, WE CAN TELL EXACTLY HOW MUCH OF THOSE MICROPLASTICS ARE PRESENT IN THESE SPECIFIC ORGANS.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE SAY AS TOXICOLOGISTS IS THE DOSE MAKES THE POISON.

SO, NOW THAT WE KNOW WHAT DOSE, WE CAN START LINKING THAT TO CLINICAL OUTCOMES.

SO, WHETHER IT BE RELATED TO CERTAIN CARDIOVASCULAR HEALTH OUTCOMES, DIABETES, EVEN JUST NEURO-DEGENERATIVE DISORDERS, THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE'RE KEEPING IN MIND, ESPECIALLY AS WE'RE MOVING INTO A LOT OF THE PHASE TWOS OF A LOT OF OUR STUDIES.

>> Lou: ALONG THE SAME LINES, WHAT DON'T WE KNOW ABOUT MICROPLASTICS?

>> Garcia: YEAH, ONE OF THE THINGS IS WE HAVE IDEAS AROUND HOW THEY GET INTO OUR BODIES, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THAT DEFINITIVE, WHAT WE CALL, MECHANISMS.

SO, THAT'S ANOTHER AREA THAT WE'RE REALLY FOCUSED ON IN BEING ABLE TO IDENTIFY.

SO, ONE OF THE THOUGHTS THAT WE'RE REALLY MOVING TOWARDS AND ANSWERING IS WE BELIEVE THAT THESE PLASTICS ARE BEING UPTAKEN THROUGH OUR DIETARY FATS.

SO, AS OUR BODY STARTS PROCESSING OUR FOOD AFTER WE EAT, WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING IS THOSE NANO-PLASTICS HITCHHIKE INTO OUR DIETARY FATS AND OUR BODIES WORK TO PROCESS THOSE THROUGHOUT OUR BODY FOR DIFFERENT ENERGY SOURCES OR JUST OVERALL NUTRIENTS.

AS THEY'RE ENTERING INTO THOSE TISSUES, THEY GET EMBEDDED, AND ULTIMATELY ACCUMULATE OVER A PERIOD OF TIME.

>> Lou: NOW, THE STUDY THAT WAS PUBLISHED LAST YEAR ON THE PLACENTA, THAT OF COURSE BREATHES LIFE, SO TO SPEAK, INTO A FETUS AND AS THEY GROW IN THE WOMB.

DOES THE PRESENCE OF MICROPLASTICS IN A PLACENTA MEAN THAT BABIES ARE BEING BORN WITH MICROPLASTICS IN THEIR SYSTEMS?

>> Garcia: YES.

SO, THAT IS ONE THING THAT HAS BEEN A BIG CAUSE FOR CONCERN.

THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF STUDIES OUT THERE FROM OTHER GROUPS WHO ARE REALLY FOCUSED ON MICROPLASTICS AND SPECIFICALLY TRANSPORT FROM PLACENTA TO FETUS, AS WELL AS IN BREAST MILK.

FROM THOSE, OF COURSE, THIS IS IN A MOUSE MODEL, THEY HAVE SEEN THAT THERE IS THAT TRANSLOCATION OR PASSING FROM THE PLACENTA ONTO THE FETUS.

AS WELL AS EVEN AFTER BIRTH, THEY'RE CONSUMING THESE MICROPLASTICS THROUGH THE BREAST MILK AS WELL TOO.

>> Lou: NOW, LET'S MOVE TO THE RECENT STUDY AND THE BRAIN.

WHY WAS THAT THE NEXT PLACE THAT YOU CHOSE TO LOOK?

AND WHAT DID YOU FIND THERE?

>> Garcia: SO, WHENEVER WE WANTED TO LOOK AT THAT TISSUE SPECIFICALLY, IT WAS JUST, OKAY, IF THEY'RE GETTING INTO ALL THESE OTHER TISSUES THAT WE ALREADY LOOKED AT, IS IT ALSO GETTING IN THERE?

AND TO OUR SURPRISE, INITIALLY, WHEN WE SAW THAT, WE'RE LIKE, YES, THEY ARE.

SEEING THAT IT'S ACCUMULATING AT THE HIGHEST AMOUNT COMPARED TO OTHER TISSUES WAS VERY CONCERNING TO US.

AGAIN, TOO, THIS ALSO GOES DOWN THE LINES OF THINKING THAT THESE PLASTICS ACTUALLY HITCHHIKE THROUGH A LOT OF OUR DIETARY FATS.

SO THE BRAIN DOES HAVE A LOT OF FAT IN IT AS WELL TOO.

AND THAT'S WHAT HELPS WITH OVERALL PROCESSING.

BUT ON THE SAME SIDE TOO IS THE BRAIN HAS A VERY HIGH METABOLISM, BUT DOESN'T HAVE A GREAT MECHANISM TO GET THINGS OUT.

SO, THAT'S WHAT WE THINK -- SO WITH THE LIVER AND KIDNEY, THOSE STILL HAVE THE ABILITY TO FILTER OUT A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF THESE PLASTICS, WHEREAS THE BRAIN MAY NOT HAVE THAT SAME KIND OF MECHANISM.

SO, TO SEE THAT THERE WAS THAT ACCUMULATION IN THERE, THAT WAS ONE OF THE BIG FINDINGS.

AGAIN, MOVING TOWARDS LIKE NOW LOOKING AT SOME NEURO-DEGENERATIVE DISORDERS THAT MIGHT BE ASSOCIATED, OF COURSE, WE HAVEN'T MADE THAT DEFINITIVE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION YET, IS GOING TO BE VERY IMPORTANT.

>> Lou: YEAH, WHAT WAS THE DATA YOU FOUND ON A POSSIBLE LINK BETWEEN DEMENTIA AND THE PRESENCE OF MICROPLASTIC?

>> Garcia: YEAH, WITH THAT STUDY TOO, WE LOOKED AT HEALTHY BRAINS AND NOTICED A CERTAIN CONCENTRATION OF MICROPLASTICS THAT WAS PRETTY HIGH IN GENERAL.

BUT WE WERE ALSO ABLE TO COLLECT BRAIN SAMPLES FROM DEMENTIA PATIENTS.

AND WE ACTUALLY SAW THAT THERE'S TEN TIMES THE AMOUNTS OF PLASTICS WITHIN THOSE TISSUES.

NOW, I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THIS IS MORE A CORRELATION STUDY NOT A CAUSATION.

SO, WHEN I SAY THAT, WE'RE SAYING THAT THEY'RE THERE IN THIS HIGHER CONCENTRATION.

WE'RE NOT SAYING THAT IT'S THE PLASTICS THAT ARE CAUSING THE DEMENTIA, AT THIS POINT.

BUT WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS THAT BASED OFF OF THE DEGENERATION OF THESE BARRIERS AS THESE TYPES OF CONDITIONS PROGRESS, IT MIGHT ALLOW FOR THESE PLASTICS TO GET IN THERE A LOT EASIER.

SO, THAT'S ONE OF THE MAIN THINGS THAT WE'RE STILL CONTINUING TO INVESTIGATE TO BE ABLE TO GIVE THAT DEFINITIVE ANSWER.

>> Lou: OKAY.

NOW, GIVEN THESE MICROPLASTICS HAVE MADE THEIR WAY INTO OUR ECOSYSTEM AND GROUNDWATER, AS YOU SAID, SIMPLY AVOIDING THINGS LIKE I SAID, TUPPERWARE, BOTTLED WATER, THAT'S NOT GOING TO COMPLETELY PROTECT ANYBODY.

ARE THERE LIFESTYLE CHANGES THAT PEOPLE CAN MAKE TO STEER CLEAR OF THESE THINGS?

OR, AT THIS POINT, IS THAT JUST KIND OF LIKE PADDLING UPSTREAM?

>> Garcia: I THINK WE CAN ALWAYS DO SOMETHING TO IMPROVE IN OUR EVERYDAY LIFE.

OF COURSE, BEING MORE COGNIZANT OR UNDERSTANDING AND SEEING HOW MUCH PLASTIC WE'RE USING ON A DAY TO DAY USE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

WHETHER THAT BEING LOOKING AT SOME OF THE PACKAGING THAT SOME OF OUR PRODUCTS ARE COMING IN AND FIGURING OUT IS THERE A WAY WHERE I DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BUY A PRODUCT THAT HAS THAT MUCH PLASTIC WRAPPED.

OR, EVEN IF YOU STILL DO BECAUSE WE KNOW IT MAY BE DIFFICULT, IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT BETTER WAYS IN WHICH TO MANAGE THAT.

OR EVEN JUST REUSE SOME OF THESE PRODUCTS UNTIL THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO BE REUSED ANYMORE.

OF COURSE, RECYCLING IS AN AREA THAT WE WANT TO SEE IMPROVED, BUT ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS IS SEEING HOW UBIQUITOUS OR HOW MUCH WE'RE SEEING IN THE ENVIRONMENT.

AGAIN, A LOT OF THAT IS COMING FROM THAT BREAKDOWN IN THESE LANDFILLS, AND WHAT WE'RE THINKING WE CAN DO IS WORK AROUND POLICIES TO REALLY MITIGATE SOME OF THAT.

SO, BEING ABLE TO TAKE THOSE PLASTICS OUT OF THE LANDFILLS AND BETTER PROCESS THEM OR BETTER RECYCLING, OR EVEN -- ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS WE THINK OF IS EVEN HAVING SOME FORM OF WASTE-TO-ENERGY TREATMENT PLANT.

OF COURSE, WE KNOW INFRASTRUCTURE IS ALWAYS A CHALLENGE AND ESPECIALLY BUILDING SOMETHING NEW.

BUT IN A LOT OF EUROPEAN COUNTRIES WE'RE SEEING THEM UTILIZING A LOT OF THESE AND REALLY WORKING WELL AT THIS TIME.

AND THOSE ARE THINGS THAT I FEEL WE CAN CONTINUE TO ADAPT OR ADVANCE AND CONTINUE TO BUILD UP AND ANSWER THIS QUESTION.

>> Jeff: SOME NORTHERN NEW MEXICANS SPEAK A DIALECT OF SPANISH THAT ISN'T FOUND ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD.

DESPITE SURVIVING 400 YEARS, SCHOLARS HAVE RECENTLY ESTIMATED THAT WITHOUT INTERVENTION IT COULD DIE OUT OVER THE NEXT TWO DECADES.

ENTER THE NATIONAL HISPANIC CULTURAL CENTER, WHICH IS WORKING TO PRESERVE THE REGIONAL DIALECT THROUGH WHAT IT CALLS THE LEGACY PROJECT.

WE SPOKE WITH EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR ZACK QUINTERO ABOUT THE ARCHIVAL ENDEAVOR AROUND ITS LAUNCH IN THE FALL OF 2023.

SINCE THEN, QUINTERO TELLS US TODAY THE TEAM IS CREATING A DATABASE OF ARCHIVAL MATERIALS AND DIGITIZING DOCUMENTS THE PROJECT AS RECEIVED SO FAR.

THE CENTER'S ARCHIVIST CONTINUES TO ACCEPT, QUOTE, CULTURALLY-SIGNIFICANT DONATIONS, END QUOTE, RELATED TO THE DIALECT'S PRESERVATION.

HERE'S QUINTERO'S CONVERSATION WITH LOU.

>> Lou: ZACK QUINTERO, THANKS FOR JOINING ME HERE ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Quintero: IT'S A PLEASURE.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Lou: OF COURSE.

THE NATIONAL HISPANIC CULTURAL CENTER IS ABOUT TO BEGIN THE FIRST OF THREE YEARS WORKING ON THIS LEGACY PROJECT.

WHEN HAD THE SPANISH DIALECT IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO BEEN SPOKEN MORE COMMONLY?

AND WHERE EXACTLY?

>> Quintero: SURE, SO THIS REALLY BUILDS AROUND RIO ARRIBA COUNTY, STARTING IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

EVERYWHERE FROM RIO ARRIBA COUNTY TO MORA COUNTY TO TAOS COUNTY.

YOU SAW AN ARTICLE RECENTLY IN THE LAST FIVE MONTHS ABOUT THE VILLAGE OF QUESTA.

THE TOWN OF QUESTA, AND HOW THEY'RE SPECIALIZING IN A SPECIFIC DIALECT THAT IS TRADITIONAL SPANISH THAT GOES BACK 200 YEARS.

AND THIS SPECIFIC TYPE OF DIALECT HAS BEEN IN EXISTENCE FOR NEW MEXICO FOR THE LAST 400 YEARS.

AND WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO WITH THE LEGACY PROJECT IS MAKE SURE WE SERVE AS AN AUDIO AND DIGITAL REPOSITORY TO COLLECT, PROTECT, AND PRESERVE THIS LANGUAGE FOR THE ENTIRE STATE.

AND FOR THE ENTIRE COUNTRY, FOR THAT MATTER.

AND MAKING SURE THAT HUNDREDS OF YEARS FROM NOW, WHEN FOLKS ASK DIFFERENT KINDS OF POINTS OF LANGUAGE AND DIALECT AND HISTORY WHERE SPANISH WITH WAS BEING SPOKEN IN NORTH AMERICA, THEY CAN SAY NEW MEXICO.

>> Lou: NOW, WHAT IS THE CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE DIALECT IN THAT AREA?

>> Quintero: THE CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE IS VAST.

IT STARTS WITH NOT ONLY THE STORY OF WHAT BUILT INTO BEING NEW MEXICO AS IT IS ALONGSIDE OUR INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES, HAVING SHARED FAMILY MEMBERS, BOTH HISPANIC AND INDIGENOUS.

BEING ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THE LARGER CONCEPT OF WHAT REALLY FORMED WHAT WE KNOW NOW AS THE UNITED STATES AND BEING PART OF THE MULTI-CULTURAL PIECE OF WHAT WE NOW UNDERSTAND TO BE THE UNITED STATES.

SO, IT'S REALLY POWERFUL ON THE CULTURAL SIDE TO GATHER THIS INFORMATION AND COLLECT THIS SPECIFIC AUDIO, VIDEO, AND HISTORIC DOCUMENTS.

WE JUST RECEIVED, TWO WEEKS AGO, A HISTORIC DOCUMENT GOING FROM VALENCIA COUNTY TO SANTA FE COUNTY FROM 1841.

TO DATE THAT FOR YOU, THE GADSDEN PURCHASE DIDN'T HAPPEN UNTIL AFTER THAT.

THE TREATY OF GUADALUPE HIDALGO DIDN'T HAPPEN UNTIL AFTER THAT.

THE STATEHOOD OF NEW MEXICO DIDN'T EXIST UNTIL AFTER THAT.

SO, 1841 IS, YOU KNOW, GOING BACK QUITE FAR.

AND BEING ABLE TO HOUSE THAT HERE AT THE NATIONAL HISPANIC CULTURAL CENTER IS REALLY SPECIAL FOR US.

>> Lou: HOW DID YOU AND THE CULTURAL CENTER DECIDE ON DEVOTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS SPECIFIC DIALECT?

>> Quintero: IT WAS A FORM OF TWO PARTS.

THE FIRST WAS THE PUBLIC AWARENESS GOING AROUND HISPANIC COMMUNITIES AND BEING A GOOD CONVERSATION WITH COMMUNITY LEADERS AND FOLKS IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF NORTHERN, CENTRAL, AND SOUTHERN RURAL NEW MEXICO WHO WERE SHARING THAT A LOT OF THEIR LANGUAGE WAS BEING LOST.

THAT THEIR GRANDKIDS COULDN'T UNDERSTAND A DIFFERENT KIND OF WORD THEIR GRANDMOTHER WAS SPEAKING OR GRANDFATHER WAS SPEAKING.

SO, FIRST FROM THE COMMUNITY IT CAME TO OUR ATTENTION.

THE SECOND PART WAS THE MEDIA ATTENTION WE STARTED TO SEE FROM THE NATIONAL SIDE ABOUT SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS SHARING THAT THIS DIALECT, THIS SPECIFIC FORM OF SPANISH BEING SPOKEN, WAS GOING TO BE EXTINCT IN 18 YEARS.

SO, WE SAW IT AS AN ANTHROPOLOGICAL TIME CLOCK.

THAT WE HAD TO GO ON AN ANTHROPOLOGICAL RESCUE MISSION TO WORK WITH OUR COMMUNITY TO PROTECT THIS LANGUAGE, THIS HISTORY, THIS SPOKEN DIALECT, AND PRESERVE IT.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT OUR MISSION IS AT THE NATIONAL HISPANIC CULTURAL CENTER.

>> Lou: ARE THERE GAPS IN THE LANGUAGE NOW, AND HOW ARE YOU GOING TO WORK TO FILL THOSE GAPS IF THERE ARE SOME?

>> Quintero: SURE, THERE'S CLEAR GAPS.

AND THAT GOES BACK TO THE STATE'S HISTORY.

THERE'S BEEN DIFFERENT PRACTICES DONE, SPECIFICALLY, TO THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY ABOUT SPOKEN SPANISH.

MY PARENTS, A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THAT, THEY DELIBERATELY TRIED NOT TO TEACH ME SPANISH BECAUSE OF HOW THEY WERE TREATED IN PUBLIC SCHOOL BECAUSE OF HOW THEY WERE TREATED IN PRIVATE SECTORS OF THE ECONOMY AS WELL.

TRYING TO ROOT OUT -- AND THE ROOT WORD THEY LIKE TO USE BACK IN THE DAY WAS ASSIMILATION.

WHICH IS VERY DEROGATIVE TERM NOW.

THEY WANTED THEM TO FORGET ALL PARTS OF THEIR HISPANIC IDENTITY, LATINA OR LATINE OR LATINO IDENTITY.

AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY DIDN'T KNOW ANY OTHER LANGUAGE BUT ENGLISH.

SO, THERE WILL BE GAPS.

THERE WILL BE GAPS, BUT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO IS WORK WITH DIFFERENT EXPERTS IN THE FIELD THAT ARE LINGUISTS, FIRST AND FOREMOST, STARTING FROM THE COMMUNITY THAT SPEAK THIS TRADITIONAL SPANISH THAT ARE GOING TO THESE INTERVIEWS WITH US AND TALKING WITH COMMUNITY MEMBERS THAT HAVE TRUST WITHIN THE COMMUNITY, THAT SHARE WITH THEM AND HELP US BE ABLE TO SHARE THE FULL CONTEXT AND STORY OF HOW THIS LANGUAGE HAS DEVELOPED.

WE SEE DIFFERENT DIALECTS FROM NORTHEAST NEW MEXICO TO NORTHWEST NEW MEXICO.

AND EVERYTHING FROM CASTILIAN SPANISH TO BASQUE.

AND IT'S REALLY INTERESTING TO SEE THAT KIND OF TRADITIONAL SPANISH STILL BEING SPOKEN THE WAY IT WAS COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE AMERICAS.

IT'S A REALLY SPECIAL WAY FOR US TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT AND PRESERVE THE FULL DIALECT IN ITS ENTIRETY.

>> Lou: SURE.

NOW, ARE THERE ANY WORDS OR PHRASES COMMON IN THIS SPECIFIC DIALECT THAT STAND APART FROM TRADITIONAL SPANISH SPOKEN ELSEWHERE?

>> Quintero: SURE.

THE MOST COMMON KNOWN ONE I WOULD SAY FROM THE QUALITATIVE PIECES WE PULLED TOGETHER IS "PLEVE".

A LOT OF YOUR VIEWERS WILL KNOW THIS WORD IF THEY'RE SPANISH-SPEAKING VIEWERS IN THAT SENSE AND NEW MEXICAN, PARTICULARLY HISPANIC-SPEAKING COMMUNITIES.

PLEVE IS A TRANSLATION OF THE WORD "GENTE", ANOTHER PARALLEL WORD OF IT, WHICH IS "PEOPLE."

SO, OUR PEOPLE, PLEV, TOGETHER.

SO OUR PLEVE, THAT'S MY PERSON.

THAT'S OUR PEOPLE RIGHT THERE.

THAT'S ONE OF THE TRADITIONAL WORDS THAT WE COME ACROSS BOTH IN SOUTHERN, CENTRAL AND NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

SO, WE SEE TYING TRENDS OF CERTAIN WORDS BEING USED OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

PLEVE IS ONE OF THEM.

>> Lou: WHO STILL SPEAKS THIS DIALECT?

AND, MORE SPECIFICALLY, WHO DO YOU KNOW THAT WANTS TO SPEAK THIS DIALECT STILL?

>> Quintero: SO THE FOLKS THAT STILL SPEAK THIS DIALECT ARE MATRIARCHS AND TRUSTED ELDERS OF THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY.

RELIGIOUS COMMUNITIES AS WELL, PROTECTED COMMUNITIES THAT TEND TO BE VERY PRIVATE.

AND WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO RESPECT THAT PRIVACY, THAT HAVE LEARNED THIS LANGUAGE THROUGH RELIGIOUS SONGS, RIGHT.

THROUGH TRADITIONS DURING THE HOLIDAYS, THROUGH CERTAIN PRAYERS, EVEN ON FRIDAYS, TO SATURDAYS, TO SUNDAYS TO MONDAYS, CERTAIN PRAYERS OF THE DAY.

THEY'VE LEARNED IT THROUGH THEIR RELIGIOUS BACKGROUND.

THEY'VE LEARNED IT THROUGH THE COMMUNITY-GATHERING BACKGROUND.

THEY'VE ALSO LEARNED IT THROUGH PLANTS.

THROUGH NAMING CERTAIN THINGS THE WAY THEY'RE NAMED, AND SHARING THAT AND CARRYING THAT OVER TO THE TRADITIONAL LANGUAGE.

>> Lou: HOW ARE YOU AND YOUR TEAM WORKING TO GAIN TRUST IN THESE COMMUNITIES WHERE THE DIALECT IS SPOKEN SO THAT YOU CAN RECORD AND ARCHIVE IT BUT ALSO REQUEST THE PEOPLE WHO ARE CURRENTLY SPEAKING IT?

>> Quintero: WELL IT HELPS, FIRST AND FOREMOST, TO APPROACH IT FROM A PLACE OF HUMILITY AND RESPECT AND UNDERSTANDING I HAVE AN OBLIGATION AS A NEW MEXICAN, A HISPANIC NEW MEXICAN, TO ENSURE THAT I LOOK AT THIS THROUGH THE EYES THAT IS RESPECTING THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SPEAKING IT RIGHT NOW.

THAT IS TALKING WITH THE COMMUNITY, FIRST AND FOREMOST, OF WHO IS ALREADY SPEAKING IN THESE COMMUNITIES.

UNDERSTANDING THE FULL SCOPE OF WHAT KIND OF ACTIVITIES HAPPEN AND WHAT INVOLVES THAT LANGUAGE.

AND THEN, BEING ABLE TO BE PART OF IT SLOWLY.

AND BEING ABLE TO SHARE THAT WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT THAT SPECIFIC LANGUAGE WITH THEM, SLOWLY.

AND THAT KIND OF TRUST TAKES TIME, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT I FEEL THAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO GATHER OVER THE LAST SIX MONTHS IN A VERY POWERFUL WAY.

OUR FIRST VISIT WAS TO FAMILIES IN MORA, NEW MEXICO.

MORA COUNTY AND THE TOWN MORA.

AND BEING ABLE TO TALK WITH CERTAIN FAMILY MEMBERS ABOUT THE FORM OF DIALECT THEY USE WITH THEIR FAMILY.

THE FORM OF DIALECT THEY USE IN THE COMMUNITY.

THAT'S A HUGE FIRST STEP.

ALSO, WORKING WITH KEY INSTITUTION PARTNERS LIKE UNM AND NEW MEXICO HIGHLANDS UNIVERSITY AND NMSU, NORTHERN NEW MEXICO COLLEGE.

PLACES WHERE PEOPLE SEND THEIR KIDS FROM NEW MEXICO.

NEW MEXICO HISPANIC STUDENTS ATTEND THOSE SCHOOLS AND THEY'RE SPEAKING THIS LANGUAGE STILL.

AND THEY'RE GOING BACK TO THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS AND SAYING, HEY, WE HEARD ABOUT A PROJECT THAT INVOLVES THE WAY THAT GRANDPA SPEAKS SPANISH OR GRANDMA SPEAKS SPANISH OR THE WAY THAT DAD OR MOM SPEAKS SPANISH AND THEY CONNECT WITH US.

SO, IT'S VERY NATURAL OF WHAT THE CONNECTION TAKES PLACE BETWEEN THE COMMUNITY AND US, BUT IT'S FIRST COMING FROM A PLACE OF RESPECT AND HONORING THE LANGUAGE AS ITS BEING SPOKEN IN THAT AREA.

>> Lou: NOW, YOU TALK ABOUT A CONNECTION WITH THE COMMUNITY.

HOW WILL THESE FAMILIES BE ABLE -- WHO ARE INVOLVED IN THE PROJECT, BE ABLE TO ACCESS THIS INFORMATION?

OBVIOUSLY, PARTS OF NORTHERN NEW MEXICO INTERNET ISN'T AS EASY TO COME BY AS IT IS DOWN HERE.

>> Quintero: THAT'S TRUE.

>> Lou: WILL THERE BE A SPECIFIC EFFORT TO KEEP THESE PEOPLE INVOLVED COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC?

>> Quintero: YES.

SO, WE'RE TAKING ACTIVE TRIPS IN THE FIELD.

MAKING SURE WE STAY IN CLOSE CONTACT WITH COMMUNITIES THAT DON'T HAVE INTERNET ACCESSIBILITY OR HAVE DIRECT CONVERSATIONS WITH US AS THE NATIONAL HISPANIC CULTURAL CENTER.

WE HAVE REMOTE SITES WE'RE SETTING UP THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF CULTURAL AFFAIRS IN PARTNERSHIP WITH SOME OF OUR UNIVERSITY INSTITUTIONS WHERE WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO ARE REOCCURRING INTERVIEWS, REOCCURRING DOCUMENT SCANNING SO WE CAN BE ABLE TO SHOW WORKSHOP PRACTICES TO PRESERVE TRADITIONAL DOCUMENTS LIKE I JUST MENTIONED THAT DOCUMENT FROM 1841.

THAT WAS DONATED TO THE CENTER.

THAT WAS FANTASTIC.

WE'RE REALLY GRATEFUL ABOUT THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, BUT WE KNOW MORE IS OUT THERE.

AND WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO SHOW AND SHARE FELLOW HISPANIC NEW MEXICANS AND DIFFERENT FOLKS THAT HAVE THESE DOCUMENTS HOW TO PROTECT THEIR OWN FAMILY HISTORY, HOW TO PROTECT THOSE DOCUMENTS, SO THEY CAN HOLD ON TO IT AND PASS IT ON TO THE NEXT GENERATION.

OR IF THEY WANT TO ENTRUST IT TO US TO PROTECT IT AT THE CENTER, AND THEY CAN COME SEE IT, WE'RE HAPPY TO DO THAT TOO.

>> Lou: NOW, THERE ARE SEVERAL DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES FROM WHICH AN ORGANIZATION LIKE YOURS CAN APPROACH A SITUATION LIKE THIS, OR A PROJECT LIKE THIS, AS ANTHROPOLOGISTS, HISTORIANS, SOCIAL LINGUISTS.

ARE YOU IN THE CENTER APPROACHING IT FROM ONE OF THOSE IN PARTICULAR?

OR IS THERE VALUE IN APPROACHING IT FROM ALL THREE?

>> Quintero: THERE'S VALUE IN APPROACHING IT FROM THERE THREE.

THE MAIN ONE WE'RE APPROACHING IT FIRST WITH IS A POINT OF PRIDE AND HONOR FOR THE COMMUNITY.

AND MAKING SURE THAT WE SHARE FROM THE COMMUNITY'S PERSPECTIVE FIRST.

AND BEING ABLE TO CONNECT WITH THEM AND SHARE WHAT KIND OF DOCUMENTS, WHAT KIND OF STORY, WHAT KIND OF LANGUAGE THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO FIRST START OFF THE CONVERSATION WITH.

AND AS THAT GROWS, BE ABLE TO SHARE THE ANTHROPOLOGICAL PIECE BEHIND IT, WHICH IS WHO TAUGHT YOU THIS?

WHERE DID IT COME FROM ORIGINALLY?

THIS TOWN OVER HERE SPEAKS DIFFERENT FROM THIS TOWN.

WHY IS THAT?

BUILDING THAT NARRATIVE AND TIMELINE IS THE HISTORY PART AFTER THAT.

AND FOLLOWING STRAIGHT FROM THAT IS THE SOCIOLOGICAL COMPONENT OF HOW DID THAT INFLUENCE THE MAPPING OF LANGUAGE THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IN THE STATE?

HOW DID IT INFLUENCE THE MAPPING OF THE UNITED STATES, FOR THAT MATTER, AND WHAT IS BEING SPOKEN NOW?

>> Lou: IT'S ONE THING, OBVIOUSLY, TO ARCHIVE AND PRESERVE A LANGUAGE, BUT THERE'S A CLEAR AND MAJOR VALUE IN THAT ALONE.

BUT IS THERE ANY PLAN TO TEACH THIS, TO DISSEMINATE IT TO PEOPLE SO THIS DOES BECOME A BIT MORE COMMON?

>> Quintero: SURE.

SO, THE LONG-TERM GOAL THAT WE HAVE, THREE STAGES.

THE FIRST SHORT-TERM IS, AGAIN, BUILDING THE COMMUNITY PARTNERS, WHICH WE'RE ACTIVELY DOING RIGHT NOW AND SUCCESSFULLY CARRYING OUT AND BEING ABLE TO DO INTERVIEWS AND BEING ABLE TO PULL TOGETHER RESOURCES FROM DIFFERENT PARTNERS.

SECOND PART IS BEING ABLE TO DISPLAY THE INTERIM PIECE OF WHAT WE PULLED TOGETHER, LIKE THOSE DOCUMENTS, AND EVEN ANOTHER RECORDING THAT WE GOT FROM CUBA, NEW MEXICO.

WE HAVE A SERIES OF 15 TAPES THAT WE RECEIVED ON A TRACK TO TRACK PLAYER THAT'S VERY OLD SCHOOL WAY OF PLAYING AUDIO.

AND IT'S TRADITIONAL SPANISH BEING SPOKEN IN SANDOVAL COUNTY IN CUBA, NEW MEXICO.

IT'S ANOTHER PRECIOUS ARTIFACT THAT WE'RE NOW BEING ENTRUSTED TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT AND PRESERVE BY SMITHSONIAN STANDARDS OF CARE.

SO, THAT'S THE MID-TERM PART.

THE LONG-TERM PIECE IS WITH THESE DOCUMENTS, WITH THAT AUDIO, SERVE IT AS A REPOSITORY HERE AT THE NATIONAL HISPANIC CULTURAL CENTER SO THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE VISITING, WHETHER IT BE FELLOW NEW MEXICANS OR VISITORS TO NEW MEXICO THAT MAY NOT KNOW A LOT ABOUT THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY OR WANT TO LEARN MORE ABOUT SPANISH-SPEAKING COMMUNITIES, HOW IT DEVELOPED, AND VISIT THE NHCC AND BE ABLE TO LISTEN TO THIS AND MAKE IT INTERACTIVE AND BE ABLE TO MAP IT OUT AND SHOW THE HISTORY OF THIS AND BE ABLE TO SHOW THE WORDS AND WHAT THEY MEAN AND THE SIGNIFICANCE IT MEANS CULTURALLY.

SO THAT PEOPLE HAVE MORE EDUCATION AND BE ABLE TO COME FROM A PLACE OF LOVE AND REQUEST TOWARDS THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY.

>> Lou: ZACK QUINTERO, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME HERE ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Quintero: THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> Jeff: THANKS TO ZACK QUINTERO AND TO EVERYONE ELSE WHO CONTRIBUTED TO THE SHOW.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.