>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gwyneth: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, ONE REPUBLICAN RUNNING FOR CONGRESS REFLECTS ON THE BEGINNING OF PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SECOND TERM.

AND WHAT WE KNOW AND WHAT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE LOCAL IMPACT OF FEDERAL LAYOFFS AND FUNDING FREEZES.

>> O'Donnell: IT CAN BE ANYTHING FROM THE VETERANS ADMINISTRATION WHICH IS A BIG ONE.

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE.

IT COULD BE THE PARKS SERVICE.

NATIONAL FOREST SERVICE.

THE IRS.

ANYBODY WHO WORKS FOR THE FEDERAL JUDICIARY.

>> Gwyneth: ALSO, WE'LL HEAR FROM NATIVE AMERICAN ADVOCATES WORKING TO ADDRESS VIOLENCE IN TRIBAL COMMUNITIES WITH CULTURALLY-RELEVANT PROGRAMS AND POLICIES.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

I'M GWYNETH DOLAND.

IT MAY BE HARD TO BELIEVE WITH THE ONSLAUGHT OF EXECUTIVE ACTIONS, BUT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS ONLY BEEN BACK IN THE WHITE HOUSE FOR 13 WEEKS.

WITH THE BUSY STATE LEGISLATIVE SESSION NOW BEHIND US, WE WANT TO SPEND SOME MUCH NEEDED TIME WRAPPING OUR HEADS AROUND WHAT THE ADMINISTRATION'S ACTIONS MEAN FOR NEW MEXICO.

TONIGHT, WE'LL ASK ONE REPUBLICAN, WHO HOPES TO SERVE IN CONGRESS, HOW HE FEELS ABOUT TRUMP'S WORK SO FAR.

HOW WILL ELON MUSK'S DOGE CUTS AFFECT NEW MEXICO EXACTLY?

WE NEED DATA TO MEASURE THAT, AND ONE UNM RESEARCHER TELLS US HE'S NOT GETTING THE INFORMATION HE NEEDS.

LATER ON, THE ARCHBISHOP OF SANTA FE REFLECTS ON THE LIFE AND LEGACY OF POPE FRANCIS.

BUT NOW, APRIL IS SEXUAL ASSAULT AWARENESS MONTH.

AND CORRESPONDENT ANTONIA GONZALES SPOKE WITH MEMBERS OF THE COALITION TO STOP VIOLENCE AGAINST NATIVE WOMEN ABOUT THEIR WORK IN TRIBAL COMMUNITIES.

THEY'RE DEVELOPING SOLUTIONS TAILORED SPECIFICALLY TO THIS VERY AT-RISK POPULATION.

>> Antonia: TIFFANY, CHARLOTTE AND PATRICK, WELCOME TO NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Jiron: THANK YOU FOR HAVING US, AND THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY.

>> Gonzales: THANK YOU.

>> Gallegos: THANK YOU.

>> Antonia: TIFFANY, CAN YOU SHARE HOW THE COALITION IS WORKING TO EMPOWER TRIBAL COMMUNITIES, ESPECIALLY AS DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, SEXUAL ASSAULT -- THOSE ARE SENSITIVE TOPICS.

>> Jiron: ABSOLUTELY.

SO, WE'RE A MEMBER-BASED ORGANIZATION, MEANING THAT WE ARE A COALITION OF TRIBAL COMMUNITIES, AGENCIES, AND DIRECT-SERVICE PROVIDERS WHO ARE ALREADY DOING THIS WORK.

WHO ARE ALREADY ESTABLISHED ADVOCATES AND DIRECT-SERVICE PROVIDERS DOING WORK TO BRING VIOLENCE AWARENESS TO OUR TRIBAL COMMUNITIES THROUGH EVENTS AND ACTIVITIES THAT ARE HAPPENING THROUGHOUT THE TRIBAL COMMUNITIES THAT WE SERVE.

SO, DIFFERENT TRIBAL COMMUNITIES, RIGHT NOW, ARE DOING SEXUAL VIOLENCE AWARENESS EVENTS.

THEY ARE HOSTING RUNS.

THEY ARE HOSTING TRAININGS AND PRESENTATIONS.

AND THAT'S WHERE THE COALITION STEPS IN.

OUR ORGANIZATION IS STAFFED WITH 17 PEOPLE FROM TRIBAL COMMUNITIES.

AND WE BRING WITH US SKILLS AND EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE, EVEN FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCES OF BEING SURVIVORS OURSELVES.

AND WE COME TO THE TRIBAL COMMUNITIES THAT WE ARE ASKED TO BE AT TO PROVIDE PRESENTATIONS AND TRAININGS FOR EACH AWARENESS MONTH THAT IS TO BE HELD.

SO, THE MONTH OF APRIL HAS BEEN BUSY FOR US AS WE HAVE BEEN TRAVELING TO DIFFERENT TRIBAL COMMUNITIES.

RURAL AND EVEN IN THE NATIVE URBAN POPULATIONS, SUCH AS ALBUQUERQUE, TO PROVIDE TRAINING AND EDUCATION.

IN MAY, WE'LL BE DOING A LOT OF ADVOCACY WORK WITH MMIP, THE MISSING AND MURDERED INDIGENOUS PEOPLE CRISIS TO BRING ABOUT THE AWARENESS OF THE EPIDEMIC THAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING SINCE COLONIZATION.

SO, WITH MAY COMING UP, WE'LL BE VERY BUSY TABLING AT MANY TRIBAL COMMUNITIES.

WE JUST RECEIVED ONE INVITE FOR JICARILLA APACHE NATION.

WE HAVE A LOT OF EVENTS PLANNED OUT, AND WE WILL BE SUPPORTING AS MANY MEMBERS AS WE CAN.

>> Antonia: CHARLOTTE, CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT WHY THE COALITION'S WORK IS IMPORTANT TO FOCUS ON NATIVE CULTURE AND THE RESILIENCE OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLE?

>> Gonzales: YEAH, I THINK OUR COALITION IS VERY DIFFERENT AND UNIQUE IN THE WAY WE HAVE DECIDED TO DO PREVENTIVE VIOLENCE WORK.

[COUGHS] EXCUSE ME.

I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW CULTURALLY, AS TIFFANY TALKED ABOUT, WE'RE MEMBER-BASED AND SURVIVOR-LED.

WHICH MEANS WE HAVE ALL OUR OWN LIVED EXPERIENCES WITH VIOLENCE OF SOME KIND.

AND I THINK THAT GOES FOR A MAJORITY OF OUR COMMUNITIES WHO CAN ALSO EMPATHIZE WITH THE TYPES OF GENERATIONAL TRAUMA THAT THEY'VE ALSO ENDURED.

THIS BEING ON VARIOUS DEGREES OF VIOLENCE, NOT JUST DOMESTIC VIOLENCE.

I THINK OUR APPROACH IS SPECIFICALLY -- TO AID OUR COMMUNITIES AND IS THE BEST BECAUSE WE ACKNOWLEDGE HOW CULTURAL PRACTICES ALSO COME INTO PLAY TO SUPPORT OUR COMMUNITIES.

AND WE SEE HOW THOSE APPROACHES HAVE BEEN BENEFICIAL TO OUR COMMUNITIES.

WE SEE IT EVERY DAY.

AND I THINK, AS WE CONTINUE TO DO THIS WORK AND WE CONTINUE TO WORK WITH OUR COMMUNITIES, WE WILL CONTINUE TO SEE THE GROWTH IN OUR COMMUNITIES AND SEE THAT THEY DO APPRECIATE THIS WORK THAT WE DO AND APPRECIATE THE SUPPORT THAT WE PROVIDE.

AND WE CAN ONLY HOPE TO JUST CONTINUE TO DO IT FOR THEM.

>> Antonia: PATRICK, ANYTHING TO ADD TO THE CULTURALLY RESPONSIVE WORK?

>> Gallegos: YEAH, I MEAN EVERYTHING WE INCLUDES TRADITIONAL PRACTICES AS WELL.

WE ADAPT COMMUNITY-BASED PRACTICES IN ALL OF OUR PROGRAM AREA WORK.

SO, WHEN THAT COMES TO MMIW, SEXUAL VIOLENCE, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, WE WORK WITH ALL OF THE COMMUNITIES IN THE BEST WAY CAN.

AND WE CENTER ADVOCATES AND THE WORK THEY DO IN THEIR COMMUNITIES BECAUSE THEY'RE THE EXPERTS.

AND WE HAVE OUR OWN EXPERTS AND EXPERTISE, BUT WORKING WITH ADVOCATES AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS IN THEIR COMMUNITY, WE REALLY FOCUS ON THEIR EXPERIENCE AND THEIR ABILITY TO BRING TRADITIONAL PRACTICES AND HEALING PRACTICES IN VIOLENCE PREVENTION WORK.

SO, IT'S REALLY COLLABORATION AND THAT'S WHY BEING A MEMBERSHIP-BASED ORGANIZATION REALLY HELPS US ALONG THOSE LINES.

>> Antonia: TIFFANY, YOU HAD MENTIONED SOME EVENTS COMING UP IN MAY.

THERE'S NATIONAL OBSERVANCE FOR MISSING AND MURDERED INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.

THERE'S A CASE IN THE SOUTHWEST, IN PARTICULAR, THAT HAS REALLY IMPACTED TRIBAL COMMUNITIES, NOT ONLY IN THE SOUTHWEST, BUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY OF EMILY PIKE WHO WENT MISSING AND WAS FOUND MURDERED.

THE COALITION HELD A VIGIL FOR HER.

CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT?

>> Jiron: YEAH.

EMILY -- FIRST, I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT EMILY PIKE'S MURDER HAS TOUCHED ALL OF US.

I WANT TO EXPRESS MY CONDOLENCES TO THE FAMILY FIRST BEFORE I SPEAK.

AND HOW THE EVENT CAME TO BE WAS THROUGH, ACTUALLY, A COMMUNITY MEMBER OF THE JEMEZ PUEBLO.

SO, THIS INDIVIDUAL REACHED OUT TO THE COALITION TO SEE IF WE WERE GOING TO DO ANYTHING TO HONOR EMILY.

AND WHEN COMMUNITY SPEAKS, WE KNOW THAT OUR PEOPLE ARE GRIEVING AND ARE MOURNING A LOSS.

EVEN IF WE DIDN'T KNOW HER PERSONALLY, I THINK WE WERE ALL IMPACTED DIRECTLY WITH KNOWING SOMEBODY.

WE'VE ALL EXPERIENCED SOMEBODY CLOSE TO US THAT WE'VE LOST.

I'VE LOST MY BEST FRIEND WHEN WE WERE IN OUR EARLY 20s AND SHE LEFT BEHIND TWO CHILDREN.

SO, THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I COME TO DO THIS WORK.

AS A SURVIVOR MYSELF, I KNOW THAT THERE'S A POSSIBILITY OF ME NOT BEING HERE TODAY.

I KNOW HOW IMPORTANT THIS WORK TO OUR COMMUNITIES BECAUSE WE'VE ALL BEEN IMPACTED.

WE'VE ALL BEEN TOUCHED BY STORIES LIKE EMILY'S.

SHE WAS ONLY 14 YEARS OLD.

JUST A BABY.

AND TO HEAR THE WAY THAT SHE WAS FOUND AND THE LEAK THAT HAD HAPPENED ON FACEBOOK THROUGH THE -- I BELIEVE IT WAS THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT.

CAUSED A LOT OF OUTRAGE, NOT ONLY FOR THE COMMUNITY OF THE SAN CARLOS APACHE NATION, BUT FOR TRIBAL COMMUNITIES ACROSS WHAT WE NOW CALL NORTH AMERICA OR THE UNITED STATES.

IT JUST FELT LIKE A TOTAL DISRESPECT TO OUR NATIVE PEOPLE OF HOW IT WAS DESCRIBED HOW SHE WAS FOUND.

BUT IT ALSO CREATED AWARENESS OF WHAT IS HAPPENING.

AND THIS IS NOT AN ISOLATED CASE.

WE KNOW THAT THIS HAPPENS, UNFORTUNATELY, ACROSS OUR TRIBAL COMMUNITIES, AND IN URBAN SETTINGS WHERE A LOT OF OUR NATIVE PEOPLE ARE NOW SITUATED AND POPULATED.

AND WITH THE MEMORIAL WE REALLY WANTED TO SHOW OUR SOLIDARITY WITH THE SAN CARLOS APACHE NATION.

WE ALSO WANTED TO SHOW OUR LOVE AND CARE FOR EMILY AND HER FAMILY, TO HONOR HER IN A HUGE WAY THAT CONTINUES TO GET THE ATTENTION OF THE MEDIA, SO THAT WE HAVE A PLATFORM TO SPEAK ABOUT THE AWARENESS.

BECAUSE THAT'S WHY WE EXIST AS A COALITION, TO CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT THE EXPERIENCES WE CONTINUE TO SEE IN OUR TRIBAL COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE OFTEN BEEN INVISIBLE FOR MANY OF US.

WE TEND TO SEE MANY OF THESE CASES GO COLD.

AND WE KNOW THAT EVEN OUR FAMILY MEMBERS ARE DOING THE WORK THEMSELVES TO FIND ANSWERS.

EMILY'S FAMILY IS STILL SEEKING ANSWERS.

IT'S SO DISHEARTENING TO HEAR THAT EMILY'S FAMILY DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT HER DISAPPEARANCE UNTIL A WHOLE WEEK LATER.

THAT SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN.

A FAMILY SHOULD BE TOLD IMMEDIATELY WHEN THEIR CHILD HAS GONE MISSING.

AND THAT IS WHY IT MAKES ME VERY PROUD TO HEAR THAT NEW MEXICANS AND OUR POLICYMAKERS AND LAWMAKERS ARE MAKING A HUGE STANCE AND MAKING SOME CHANGES BY IMPLEMENTING WHAT WE NOW KNOW AS SB-41, THE TURQUOISE ALERT SYSTEM.

BECAUSE THAT WILL SAVE LIVES.

IT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

WE WERE RECENTLY ASKED BY COMMUNITY A MEMBER, 'HOW WILL THIS SAVE THE LIVES OF A SEXUAL VIOLENCE SURVIVOR OR A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SURVIVOR?'

AND OUR RESPONSE WAS 48 HOURS ARE THE MOST CRUCIAL TIMES WHEN A PERSON GOES MISSING.

OFTEN, IT IS IS A RESULT OF A SEXUAL ASSAULT OR A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE INCIDENT.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT REALLY HAPPENED TO EMILY PIKE, BUT MOST CASES WHEN EVIDENCE IS THERE, WE OFTEN SEE THAT A MURDERED PERSON ALSO EXPERIENCED SEXUAL VIOLENCE.

AND IT'S HEARTBREAKING.

SO, THE COMMUNITY DID COME TOGETHER IN MARCH TO HONOR EMILY PIKE.

WE HAD A WONDERFUL TURNOUT OF DIFFERENT TRIBAL COMMUNITY PEOPLE.

NON-INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.

WE HAD THE ACTION 7 NEWS STATION ALSO THERE TO COVER THE STORY.

WE ALLOWED SPEAKERS, AN OPEN MIC, SO THAT FAMILY MEMBERS CAN CONTINUE TO SAY THEIR LOVED ONE'S NAMES BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT TO SAY THEIR NAMES.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THESE CASES NO LONGER STAY COLD.

WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO SAY THEIR NAMES SO THAT THEY ARE GETTING THE ATTENTION THEY NEED AND DESERVE, SO THAT THERE ARE SOME JUSTICES THAT IS HAPPENING FOR THE FAMILY.

ANSWERS, BECAUSE OFTENTIMES WE KNOW OF CASES THAT NEVER RECEIVE ANY KIND OF SUPPORT OR ANSWERS.

BACK IN 2016, THERE WAS DATA WE FOUND WHERE 5,712 NATIVE PEOPLE WERE MISSING AND ONLY 116 WERE ENTERED INTO THE NCIC SYSTEM.

THAT'S LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WERE MISSING AND NEVER ENTERED INTO A SYSTEM.

SO THOSE CASES HAVE PROBABLY GONE COLD.

>> Antonia: AND YOU HAD MENTIONED THE TURQUOISE ALERT AND, CHARLOTTE, YOU FOCUS ON POLICY.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THE TURQUOISE ALERT IS?

>> Gonzales: YEAH, SO THE TURQUOISE ALERT BILL, SB-41, IS BASICALLY A RAPID RESPONSE THAT BASICALLY INFORMS ALL PEOPLE, ALL PERSONNEL INVOLVED IN FINDING A MISSING PERSON, THAT THE PERSON HAS GONE MISSING.

SO, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE TURQUOISE ALERT, IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO AN AMBER ALERT.

IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO A SILVER ALERT.

IT REALLY IS TO PINPOINT NATIVE RELATIVES WHO HAVE GONE MISSING.

THIS CAN ALSO BE FROM MENTAL ILLNESS.

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE FROM A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SITUATION BECAUSE THIS CAN -- VARIOUS SITUATIONS LIKE TIFFANY BROUGHT UP CAN REALLY WHY SOMEONE FLEES AND CAN BE PUT IN A SITUATION WHERE THEY DO GO MISSING.

SO, IT'S IMPORTANT TO TALK ABOUT THE BILL ALSO BEING INCLUSIVE TO MENTAL ILLNESS RELATIVES AND ANY RELATIVE WHO DOES GO MISSING AND DOES DEAL WITH THIS.

I THINK TO MAKE A VERY HONEST DISTINCTION IS THAT IT IS A RESPONSE.

IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS PREVENTATIVE OF THESE THINGS THAT DO HAPPEN.

THERE STILL NEEDS TO BE ADVOCACY WORK DONE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE STILL MAKING PEOPLE AWARE OF WHY THIS IS A PROBLEM FOR US, AND WHY WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO MAKE SURE THAT PREVENTATIVE MEASURES DO STILL HAPPEN.

EDUCATING OUR COMMUNITY IS A REALLY BIG ONE.

AND WE DEFINITELY CONTINUE TO DO THAT THROUGH OUR TRAINING AND EDUCATION.

ALSO, THROUGH OUR POLICY AND ADVOCACY, BUT THE TURQUOISE BILL IS A REALLY GREAT STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION TO MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE BEING ACCOUNTABLE TO OUR RELATIVES WHO DO GO MISSING.

>> Antonia: PATRICK, TIFFANY AND CHARLOTTE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF HAVING, YOU KNOW, THESE CASES CONTINUE TO -- NOT GET LOST.

WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?

>> Gallegos: IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE SYSTEM DOESN'T REALLY ALLOW FOR FAMILIES TO GET THE BEST HELP AND SUPPORT THAT THEY NEED RIGHT NOW.

FOR A LONG TIME, IT'S ONLY JUST NOW BECOMING MORE AWARE ON THE NATIONAL SCALE AND THE STATE SCALE.

REALLY, WE HAVE SO MANY IMPACTED FAMILY MEMBERS THAT HAVE GONE THROUGH A SYSTEM THAT REFUSES TO TAKE THE REPORTS OR LOSES THE REPORTS.

IT DOESN'T INVESTIGATE COLD CASES IN THE JURISDICTION THAT THEY'RE FROM.

OF COURSE, JURISDICTION IS A MASSIVE ISSUE IN TERMS OF WHO IS TAKING OVER THE CASE, WHO THE CONTACTS ARE FOR THE CASE.

AND THERE'S LOT OF CONFLICT THAT GOES ON BETWEEN JURISDICTIONS ON RESPONSIBILITY AND AGENCY THAT ARE INVOLVED IN A CASE.

SO, THERE'S A LARGE SWATH OF THINGS THAT GO ON THAT IMPACTED FAMILY MEMBERS DEAL WITH.

OFTENTIMES, YOU'RE FINDING IMPACTED FAMILY MEMBERS BECOMING THEIR OWN INVESTIGATORS, ESPECIALLY IF IT HAPPENS ON TRIBAL LAND AND IT'S EITHER A MURDER CASE OR SUSPECTED OF MURDER, AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT GETS INVOLVED DUE TO THE JURISDICTIONAL RESPONSIBILITY OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OVER MURDER ON TRIBAL LAND.

IT STARTS TO GET REALLY COMPLICATED BECAUSE FEDERAL AGENTS DON'T REALLY GIVE THE SAME TIME AND ENERGY TO THOSE CASES THAT, LIKE, TRIBAL POLICE WOULD IF THEY'RE IN THAT COMMUNITY.

AND EVEN WITH TRIBAL POLICE THERE'S LOT LESS RESOURCES.

BUT FEDERAL AGENTS CAN BE VERY DIFFICULT TO MAKE THAT CASE REALLY GET THE ATTENTION IT NEEDS, ESPECIALLY FOR RULE TRIBAL COMMUNITIES WHERE IT'S JUST THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE RESOURCES ARE A LOT DIFFERENT.

SO, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT THESE CASES CONTINUE TO BE TALKED ABOUT AND CONTINUE TO BE BROUGHT IN THE MEDIA AND AMONG LAW ENFORCEMENT, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO COLLABORATION AND SUPPORT FOR FAMILIES.

FAMILIES NEED TRAUMA-INFORMED SUPPORT FROM THE PERSONNEL THAT THEY DEAL WITH.

THEY NEED, YOU KNOW, HOUSING SUPPORT, HEALTH CARE SUPPORT, BEHAVIORAL HEALTH SUPPORT.

THEY NEED A LOT OF DIFFERENT FORMS OF SUPPORT THAT ENCOMPASSES A LARGE ARRAY OF THINGS THAT THEY DEAL WITH.

SO, YEAH, THESE CASES NEED ABSOLUTELY TO BE OPENED UP, INVESTIGATED, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE COLD CASES.

AND TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE THE ATTENTION AND CARE THAT THEY NEED OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME OR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME IF IT GOES WELL.

>> Antonia: TIFFANY, THE WORK FROM THE COALITION IS YEAR ROUND.

IT'S NOT JUST DURING THESE OBSERVANCES.

CAN YOU JUST, YOU KNOW, BRIEFLY TALK ABOUT WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO DO THIS WORK?

>> Jiron: IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT.

AS NATIVE PEOPLE, WE ARE OFTEN UNDERREPRESENTED AT POLICY TABLES TO TALK ABOUT LAWS THAT DO IMPACT US, ESPECIALLY WHEN VIOLENCE IS SO PREVALENT IN OUR TRIBAL COMMUNITIES.

STATISTICS FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE SHOWS THAT FOUR IN FIVE INDIGENOUS WOMEN WILL EXPERIENCE VIOLENCE IN THEIR LIFETIME.

AND ONE IN THREE NATIVE WOMEN WILL ALSO EXPERIENCE SEXUAL VIOLENCE, BUT WE KNOW AS ADVOCATES THAT NUMBER HAS TO BE AT LEAST TWO IN THREE BECAUSE A LOT OF OUR WOMEN DO NOT COME FORWARD TO REPORT THEIR SEXUAL ASSAULT.

SO, WE KNOW THAT'S UNDERESTIMATED.

SO, ALL YEAR ROUND, NOT JUST MAY, NOT JUST APRIL, NOT JUST OCTOBER, WE'RE DOING THIS WORK NONSTOP TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR VOICES ARE REPRESENTED AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

WE DO A TRIBAL CONSULTATION WITH OUR TRIBAL LEADERS EACH YEAR TO TALK TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ABOUT THE NEEDS THAT OUR TRIBAL COMMUNITIES NEED.

HISTORICALLY, WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN UNDERFUNDED, UNDERRESOURCED, AND THAT IS CONTINUED TO BE OUR FEAR THIS TIME AROUND FOR THIS NEW ADMINISTRATION AND WE WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT OUR COMMUNITIES ARE DESERVING OF PROTECTION AND STRENGTHEN LAWS FOR OUR NATIVE WOMEN.

OUR NATIVE WOMEN ARE THE CARETAKERS OF OUR COMMUNITY.

THEY HOLD A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE FOR CEREMONY.

THEY'RE WHAT KEEPS OUR COMMUNITY STRONG.

THEY ARE BEARERS OF CHILDREN.

AND THAT IS THE WAY WE WERE TAUGHT IN OUR TRIBAL COMMUNITIES, THAT OUR NATIVE WOMEN AND CHILDREN NEED TO BE UPLIFTED AND PROTECTED.

AND A LOT OF THOSE WAYS HAVE BEEN LOST.

AND WE CONTINUE TO SEE THIS THROUGH VIOLENCE PERPETRATED AGAINST NATIVE WOMEN.

>> Antonia: I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL OF YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY AND FOR SHARING THE WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING.

THANK YOU.

>> Jiron: THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> Gonzales: THANK YOU.

>> Gallegos: THANK YOU.

>> Wester: HE WAS ABLE TO TAKE STEPS HE THOUGHT THAT NEEDED TO BE TAKEN.

REACHING OUT TO THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT FAMOUS LINE THAT GETS QUOTED A LOT, ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT OFTEN PUT IN CONTEXT.

BUT HE SAID, 'WHO AM I TO JUDGE?'

>> Gwyneth: STAY TUNED FOR THAT CONVERSATION WITH ARCHBISHOP WESTER, LATER IN THE PROGRAM.

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS QUICKLY DOWNSIZED THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE, WITH ELON MUSK AND THE DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY LEADING THE CHARGE.

IN THE NAME OF CUTTING FRAUD, WASTE, AND ABUSE THE ADMINISTRATION HAS FROZEN FUNDING FOR KEY FEDERAL PROGRAMS THAT BENEFIT NEW MEXICO.

BUT HOW BAD IS IT?

WE CAN'T QUITE SAY.

I SPOKE WITH MICHAEL O'DONNELL, DIRECTOR AT UNM'S BUREAU OF BUSINESS AND ECONOMIC RESEARCH ABOUT WHY THAT IS, AND WHAT THE POTENTIAL IMPACT MAY BE ON A STATE THAT RELIES SO HEAVILY ON FEDERAL DOLLARS.

MICHAEL, CAN YOU HELP US GET A GRIP ON THE PICTURE OF HOW IMPORTANT FEDERAL FUNDING AND FEDERAL JOBS ARE TO NEW MEXICO?

HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE WE TALKING ABOUT WHO ARE WORKING FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HERE IN NEW MEXICO?

>> O'Donnell: YEAH, OF COURSE.

THERE'S APPROXIMATELY, AT ANY GIVEN POINT IN TIME, ABOUT 30,000 JOBS IN FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

SO, ALL OF THE WAGE AND SALARY JOBS IN THE STATE, ABOUT 30,000 OF THEM ARE CLASSIFIED AS GOVERNMENT JOBS, OR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT JOBS SPECIFICALLY.

JUST TO PUT THAT IN CONTEXT, THAT ACCOUNTS FOR ABOUT 3.5% OF ALL WAGE AND SALARY JOBS.

IN COMPARISON TO THE U.S.

OVERALL, THE U.S. ON AVERAGE HAS LESS THAN 2% OF ALL WAGE AND SALARY JOBS BE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

SO, FEDERAL GOVERNMENT JOBS IN NEW MEXICO ARE IMPORTANT.

AND DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPORTANT HERE THAN OTHER PLACES.

>> Gwyneth: WHAT'S OUR BIGGEST EMPLOYER IN THE STATE?

>> O'Donnell: THE BIGGEST EMPLOYER IN THE STATE?

I DON'T KNOW IN TERMS OF A PRIVATE SECTOR EMPLOYER?

>> Gwyneth: PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, THE STATE GOVERNMENT OR UNM?

>> O'Donnell: I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE SPECIFIC LARGEST EMPLOYER IS.

I CAN BREAK DOWN, IN TERMS OF FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WHAT OTHER INDUSTRIES ARE SIMILARLY SIZED -- LIKE MANUFACTURING INDUSTRY HAS A SIMILAR NUMBER OF JOBS IN THE INDUSTRY.

THE MINING INDUSTRY, WHICH HAS A PARTICULARLY LARGE PRESENCE IN OUR STATE, ACTUALLY HAS FEWER JOBS THAN FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AS WELL.

>> Gwyneth: THAT'S INTERESTING.

SO, OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE'VE BEEN HEARING ABOUT GETTING LAID OFF, WHAT KIND OF -- ARE THEY ALL THESE PROBATIONARY HIRES OR ARE THEY JOBS THAT ARE NOT FILLED, OR ARE THESE REAL PEOPLE WITH REAL JOBS?

>> O'Donnell: IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S A COMBINATION OF ALL OF THAT.

I THINK IT'S MOSTLY PEOPLE WHO ARE PROBATIONARY OR WE'VE HEARD STORIES OF PEOPLE WHO MOVED FROM ONE DEPARTMENT TO ANOTHER WHO WERE TECHNICALLY ON PROBATIONARY STATUS BUT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THERE FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME IN SOME OTHER ROLE.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT IT'S DIFFICULT TO GET A HANDLE ON EXACTLY HOW MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE CONTINUE TO BE NO LONGER EMPLOYED, OR HOW MANY OF THEM HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN BROUGHT BACK AFTER THE FACT.

BECAUSE THAT HAPPENED IN A LOT OF CASES.

IT'S HARD TO KNOW EXACTLY WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE BECAUSE THERE'S NOT TONS OF INFORMATION RELEASED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OR THAT IS ABLE TO BE COLLECTED ON EVEN WHICH AGENCIES ARE MOST AFFECTED IN OUR STATE.

>> Gwyneth: AND THAT MUST BE HARD FOR YOU, AS A DATA PERSON, TO DEAL WITH ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE AND NOT A NICE DATA SET?

>> O'Donnell: YEAH.

AND AT THE MOMENT, IT'S ALL STORIES.

IT'S ANECDOTES.

IT'S -- THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME SIGNALS IN THE DATA, BUT EVEN THEN IT'S REALLY HIGHER LEVEL.

IT'S AN AGGREGATE LEVEL, WHERE WE'RE NOT REALLY ABLE TO DRILL DOWN AND FIND OUT WHICH AGENCIES ARE PARTICULARLY AFFECTED.

HOW MANY PEOPLE IN EACH PART OF THE STATE ARE PARTICULARLY AFFECTED.

>> Gwyneth: RIGHT, AND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, IT'S NOT JUST SANDIA NATIONAL LABS OR LOS ALAMOS OR THE AIR FORCE.

THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT PARTS OF GOVERNMENT THAT THESE FOLKS WORK IN.

GIVE ME SOME MORE.

>> O'Donnell: ACTUALLY, I'M REALLY GLAD YOU MENTIONED THAT.

BECAUSE MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO WORK AT THE LABS -- AND THE PEOPLE WHO WORK EVEN AT THE AIR FORCE BASE OR THE VARIOUS BASES THROUGHOUT THE STATE, TECHNICALLY THEY DON'T GO IN THE BUCKET OF FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, MOST OF THEM.

SO, IF YOU WORK AT THE LABS, IF YOU WORK AT THOSE PLACES, MOST OF THE PEOPLE AT THE LABS, FOR EXAMPLE, ARE PRIVATE-SECTOR WORKERS.

THEY GO IN AN INDUSTRY CALLED PROFESSIONAL AND BUSINESS SERVICES.

>> Gwyneth: BECAUSE THEY'RE WORKING FOR THE CONTRACTOR.

>> O'Donnell: THAT'S RIGHT.

THEY'RE CONTRACT WORKERS THAT ACTUALLY ARE TECHNICALLY CLASSIFIED AS OUTSIDE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WORKFORCE.

THERE ARE DEFINITELY PEOPLE THAT ARE CLASSIFIED AS FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WHO DO WORK AT THOSE PLACES, BUT THE MAJORITY OF THEM ARE ACTUALLY PRIVATE-SECTOR WORKERS THAT WORK ON GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS FROM DOD OR DOE.

>> Gwyneth: SO, IF IT'S NOT THE LABS OR IT'S NOT THE AIR FORCE, WHO ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

>> O'Donnell: SO, THERE'S A WIDE VARIETY OF FEDERAL AGENCIES THAT PEOPLE WORK FOR IN THE STATE.

THIS IS NO DIFFERENT THAN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.

NEW MEXICO, OBVIOUSLY, HAS ITS OWN SPECIFIC THING.

BUT IT CAN BE ANYTHING FROM THE VETERANS ADMINISTRATION, WHICH IS A BIG ONE ESPECIALLY HERE IN THE BERNALILLO COUNTY AREA.

AND IN VARIOUS PARTS OF THE STATE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE.

IT COULD BE THE PARKS SERVICE.

NATIONAL FOREST SERVICE.

THE IRS.

ANYBODY WHO WORK FOR THE FEDERAL JUDICIARY.

>> Gwyneth: FBI.

>> O'Donnell: FBI.

>> Gwyneth: OH, YEAH.

IT'S JUST A HUGE LIST.

>> O'Donnell: IT'S A REALLY LARGE LIST.

AND DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE STATE ARE GOING TO FEEL CUTS DIFFERENTLY, DEPENDING ON WHAT THEIR SORT OF -- HOW THEY'RE ORIENTED IN TERMS OF HOW THEY FACE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

>> Gwyneth: YEAH, IN MORE RURAL PARTS OF THE STATE THOSE FOREST SERVICE JOBS, FOR EXAMPLE, ARE REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE THERE AREN'T AS MANY JOBS.

BUT IN BERNALILLO COUNTY IT'S LIKE YOU CAN KIND OF MOVE AROUND.

>> O'Donnell: SO, FOREST SERVICE -- THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

FOREST SERVICE, NATIONAL PARKS SERVICE, THOSE TYPES OF FOLKS ARE GOING TO BE MORE CONCENTRATED IN THOSE PARTS OF THE STATE.

BUT OTHER AGENCIES HAVE A ROLE THERE AS WELL.

SO, LIKE THE USDA, FOR EXAMPLE, IT HAS A PRESENCE THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

AND A LOT OF RURAL COMMUNITIES -- AND THEY DO THINGS LIKE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND OUTREACH AND TRAINING TO THE LOCAL COMMUNITIES -- FOR A TON OF REASONS, INCLUDING TO ASSIST THEM IN HELPING TO DEVELOP A MORE ROBUST AND STRONG ECONOMY.

>> Gwyneth: RIGHT.

SO, IN ADDITION TO JOBS, WE'RE LOOKING AT FUNDING CUTS.

IN TERMS OF THE MONEY THAT'S COMING IN THROUGH THESE OTHER ROUTES, ARE WE GETTING MORE OF THIS FEDERAL MONEY THAN OTHER STATES?

THAT'S WHAT WE ANECDOTALLY KNOW, RIGHT?

>> O'Donnell: YEAH.

SO, NEW MEXICO RECEIVES -- YOU CAN LOOK AT THE WAY -- THE REVENUE OF A STATE IN A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT WAYS.

ONE THING THAT ONE ELEMENT THAT WE LOOK AT IS PERSONAL INCOME.

AND PERSONAL INCOME IS COMPRISED OF A WHOLE BUNCH OF DIFFERENT COMPONENTS, INCLUDING WAGES AND SALARIES THAT PEOPLE GET.

DIVIDENDS, INTEREST, AND RENT INCOME THAT PEOPLE GET.

ONE OF THE LINE ITEMS THAT WE HAVE IS TRANSFER PAYMENTS.

AND TRANSFER PAYMENTS IN THIS CONTEXT MEAN TRANSFERS FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO INDIVIDUALS.

TRANSFER PAYMENTS INCLUDE THINGS LIKE MEDICAID TRANSFERS.

IT INCLUDES SOCIAL SECURITY INCOME, AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE PERCENTAGE OF PERSONAL INCOME THAT NEW MEXICANS RECEIVE COMING FROM TRANSFER PAYMENTS, IT'S MORE THAN 25%.

WHICH IS MUCH HIGHER THAN THE U.S. AVERAGE, WHICH IS SOMEWHERE AROUND 18%.

I THINK NEW MEXICO'S PERCENTAGE IN TERMS OF TOTAL PERSONAL INCOME COMING FROM FEDERAL TRANSFERS WHICH ARE OUT OF STATE FUNDING, RANKS NEW MEXICO AROUND FOURTH OF ALL THE STATES IN THE COUNTRY.

SO, A REALLY HIGH PERCENTAGE IS COMING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

>> Gwyneth: AND THAT'S NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT MONEY THAT'S COMING TO LOCAL GOVERNMENTS OR TO THE UNIVERSITY FOR RESEARCH AND THINGS LIKE THAT, RIGHT?

>> O'Donnell: THAT'S RIGHT.

SO, OTHER MONEY COMING TO THE STATE FOR VARIOUS -- FOR EXAMPLE, BLOCK GRANT PROGRAMS OR REVENUES COMING TO THE STATE FOR ANY NUMBER OF REASONS.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, AS YOU MENTIONED, CONTRACTS OR GRANTS THROUGH THINGS LIKE DOD OR DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY OR THE NATIONAL SCIENCE FOUNDATION OR THE NATIONAL INSTITUTION OF HEALTH THAT ARE DESIGNED TO, BASICALLY, ENHANCE A COMMUNITY'S ABILITY TO DO IMPORTANT RESEARCH, AND EXPAND THE ECONOMY AND THE REACH OF A PARTICULAR PLACE.

>> Gwyneth: I KNOW UNM IS REALLY ANXIOUS ABOUT THAT BECAUSE THEY DO HAVE SO MUCH COMING IN FROM THE NATIONAL SCIENCE FOUNDATION AND THE NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH.

>> O'Donnell: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.

SO, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MANAGE THE NEW ENVIRONMENT THAT WE'RE IN.

>> Gwyneth: UH-OH.

I HOPE THAT'S NOT US, MICHAEL.

YOU KNOW, LET'S GO BACK TO WASHINGTON.

THINGS HAVE CHANGED SO MUCH IN THE 13 WEEKS SINCE PRESIDENT TRUMP TOOK OFFICE.

THE DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY, DOGE, HAS TAKEN A CHAINSAW ACROSS THE COUNTRY IN THE NAME OF CUTTING WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE.

AND THE DEPARTMENT'S WEBSITE HAS A LIST OF THOSE CUTS AND THE PURPORTED SAVINGS.

BUT PBS AND OTHER NEWS OUTLETS WHO'VE COMBED THROUGH IT SAY THOSE NUMBERS DON'T ADD UP.

I HAVEN'T BALANCED A CHECKBOOK SINCE 1995.

YOU HAVE A Ph.D.

IN ECONOMICS.

DOES IT LOOK LIKE IT'S ADDING UP TO YOU?

>> O'Donnell: ALL I CAN GO OFF OF IS THE REPORTS THAT I'VE SEEN FROM THE VARIOUS OUTLETS THAT YOU'VE MENTIONED.

AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF MISCOUNTING OF SAVINGS.

MULTIPLE OR DOUBLE COUNT -- DOUBLE, TRIPLE, QUADRUPLE COUNTING OF SAVINGS.

AND THE REPORT I'VE SEEN INCLUDED THINGS LIKE CONTRACTS THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN PAID OUT THAT ARE BEING -- OR GRANTS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN PAID OUT THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS SAYING THERE HAVE BEEN SAVINGS WHEN THE MONEY HAS ALREADY BEEN PAID.

>> Gwyneth: YEAH.

>> O'Donnell: SO, THERE ARE EXAMPLES.

AGAIN, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I'VE LOOKED AT SUPER IN DEPTH BEYOND THE RESEARCH THAT I HAVE SEEN.

IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE -- I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION IS EVEN BACKING OFF ON SOME OF THE CLAIMS IN TERMS OF THE AMOUNT OF SAVINGS THAT ARE EXPECTED.

>> Gwyneth: IT MAKES EVERYBODY'S JOB HARDER, YOU KNOW, I'M ASKING YOU ARE THOSE IMPACTS GOING TO BE AND YOU'RE LIKE I DON'T HAVE THE NUMBERS.

ARE WE GOING TO GET THE NUMBERS?

>> O'Donnell: I THINK IN A PERFECT WORLD, HOPEFULLY.

THE PROBLEM WITH SOME OF THE NUMBERS AND THIS IS THE CASE WITH THE EMPLOYMENT NUMBERS, THIS IS THE CASE WITH THE FINANCIAL DATA, IS THAT IT JUST TAKES TIME TO GET SOME OF THE INFORMATION.

SO, GOING BACK TO THE EMPLOYMENT SIDE, A LOT OF THE EMPLOYMENT INFORMATION COMES OUT, FOR EXAMPLE, ONCE A MONTH.

SO, YOU HAVE A LAG TIME WHERE YOU JUST AREN'T GOING TO KNOW SOMETHING FOR ANYWHERE FROM FOUR TO SIX WEEKS, EVEN IF THERE HAVE BEEN CUTS.

AND BEYOND THAT, SPECIFICALLY, AND GOING BACK TO THE EMPLOYMENT THING, SOME OF THE JOBS THAT HAVE BEEN NOMINALLY CUT INCLUDE PEOPLE WHO ARE ON -- RECEIVING A SEVERANCE OR ARE ON SOME KIND OF OTHER PATH WHERE THEY KNOW THEIR JOB IS GOING TO BE ELIMINATED.

BUT THEY'RE NOT YET COUNTED AS NOT WORKING IN THAT JOB.

SO, WE KNOW THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL FOR SOME OF THEM AND FOR SOME OF THOSE JOBS, BUT BECAUSE HOW THEY'RE COUNTED -- AND SAME THING WITH THE FINANCIAL DATA, BECAUSE OF HOW IT'S COUNTED, WE JUST MIGHT NOT KNOW ANYTHING FOR SOME SAME.

>> Gwyneth: IN THE MEANTIME, WHAT OPTIONS DO PEOPLE HAVE FOR WRAPPING THEIR HEADS AROUND WHAT'S HAPPENING, THE IMPACTS ON SERVICES IN THEIR COMMUNITIES, AND ANY ACCOUNTABILITY?

>> O'Donnell: THAT'S A REALLY DIFFICULT.

BASICALLY, I THINK THAT THE BEST WAY TO GO ABOUT TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IT IS LOOK AT YOUR LOCAL MEDIA.

YOUR LOCAL JOURNALISTS ON THE GROUND THAT ARE KEEPING ACCOUNTS OF WHAT'S GOING ON BECAUSE THEY'RE THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY HAVE THEIR FINGERS ON THE PULSE OF WHAT'S GOING ON IN THESE LOCAL COMMUNITIES.

I CAN SIT HERE AND LOOK AT WHAT THE DATA SAYS, BUT I'M NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO KNOW THAT TEN JOBS, FOR EXAMPLE, MIGHT HAVE BEEN LOST IN A PARTICULAR PLACE.

>> Gwyneth: CATRON COUNTY.

>> O'Donnell: THAT'S RIGHT.

WHERE THAT'S GOING TO BE A DISPROPORTIONATELY LARGE IMPACT ON THOSE PLACES BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE VERY MANY WORKERS OVERALL, AND FEDERAL WORK, EVEN THOUGH -- THAT'S A PERFECT EXAMPLE.

I THINK FEDERAL JOBS IN CATRON COUNTY ACCOUNT FOR SOMETHING LIKE 15% OF ALL THE JOBS IN THE COUNTY.

AND I THINK IT'S ONLY LIKE A 100 JOBS OR SOMETHING.

>> Gwyneth: WE'RE GOING TO KEEP LOOKING AT THAT.

MICHAEL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

>> O'Donnell: ABSOLUTELY.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Gwyneth: WITH LITTLE RELIABLE DATA ON THE FULL SCOPE OF CUTS TO FEDERAL JOBS AND FUNDING IN NEW MEXICO, THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IS TURNING TO YOU.

THE AGENCY CREATED A WEBPAGE TO COLLECT REPORTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON FEDERAL DISRUPTIONS TO FUNDING, JOBS, SOCIAL SECURITY, AND OTHER BENEFITS.

THE WEBSITE SAYS THE INFORMATION WILL HELP THE DEPARTMENT ASSESS THE SCOPE OF THE CUTS AND HOW TO RESPOND.

THAT COMES AS NEW MEXICO ATTORNEY GENERAL RAUL TORREZ AND OTHER STATE ATTORNEYS GENERAL SUE TO BLOCK FEDERAL FUNDING FREEZES AND MASS FIRINGS.

UPDATES ON THOSE LEGAL CHALLENGES ARE ARE ALSO POSTED ON THE SITE.

TORREZ SAYS NEW MEXICANS DESERVE TO KNOW HOW THESE DISRUPTIONS MIGHT AFFECT THEIR WALLETS, JOBS, AND BENEFITS.

TO THAT END, THE DEPARTMENT SAYS IT WILL ADD A TRACKER TO HELP THE PUBLIC BETTER UNDERSTAND THE CUTS HERE.

YOU CAN SUBMIT A REPORT AT NMDOJ.GOV.

JUST SEARCH FOR FEDERAL DISRUPTIONS.

TENS OF THOUSANDS OF FEDERAL GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES HAVE LOST THEIR JOBS IN THESE EARLY DAYS OF PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SECOND TERM.

AS THE NEWLY-CREATED DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY HAS TAKEN A KNIFE TO THE FEDERAL CHECKBOOK.

ACCORDING TO THE NEW YORK TIMES, MORE THAN 58,000 JOBS HAVE BEEN CUT.

ALTHOUGH SOME EMPLOYEES HAVE BEEN TEMPORARILY REINSTATED AFTER FEDERAL COURT ORDERS, THAT NUMBER IS EXPECTED TO GROW.

WHEN CERTIFIED PUBLIC ACCOUNTANT AND REPUBLICAN CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE STEVE JONES RAN FOR OFFICE LAST FALL, HE TOLD ME REINING GOVERNMENT SPENDING WAS ONE OF HIS TOP PRIORITIES.

NOW, HE IS RUNNING AGAIN.

IN AN INTERVIEW WITH SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DiVIZIO, JONES ASSESSES TRUMP'S IMMIGRATION AGENDA.

>> Lou: STEVE JONES, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

I JUST WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU FILED TO RUN FOR U.S. CONGRESS IN CD1 AGAIN, BUT WE STILL THINK THAT YOU HAVE A VALUABLE PERSPECTIVE HERE, A BROADER CONSERVATIVE PERSPECTIVE, ON THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S SECOND TERM.

THANKS AGAIN FOR MAKING THE TIME.

I WANT TO SPEND SOME TIME TALKING THROUGH SOME OF THE FEDERAL ACTION IN RECENT MONTHS AND HOW IT'S BEEN IMPACTING NEW MEXICO.

LET'S START BROAD THEN GET INTO SOME SPECIFICS.

WHAT'S WORKING IN YOUR MIND, AND WHAT ISN'T?

>> Jones: LARGELY, I THINK WE, AS A BLUE STATE, ARE GOING TO HAVE OUR DIFFICULTIES BENEFITING BY EVEN THE EARLY DAYS OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

SADLY, THE THINGS THAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IN NEW MEXICO, PER CAPITA INCOME, THE CREATION OF JOBS, ET CETERA, I DON'T THINK THERE'S BEEN THAT MUCH GOOD ACHIEVED.

AND I WORRY ABOUT THE FUTURE.

>> Lou: SO, YOU MENTIONED THE ECONOMY, OF COURSE.

THERE HAVE ALSO BEEN QUITE A FEW CUTS.

FEDERAL WORKFORCE PROGRAMS, GRANTS, A LOT OF THE DRIVER BEHIND THAT AS BEEN THE DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY, DOGE.

YOU HAVE BACKGROUND IN BUSINESS, AND WHEN YOU SPOKE WITH GWYNETH LAST TIME ON THE SHOW, YOU TALKED ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH LOGISTICS.

MAKING THINGS RUN MORE SMOOTHLY.

WHAT DOES THAT PROCESS LOOK LIKE TO YOU?

AND HOW WOULD YOU HAVE ADVISED DOGE IF YOU COULD?

>> Jones: IF I MAKE MAY TAKE YOU UP TO A 10,000-FOOT LEVEL ON THIS SUBJECT, FOR FOUR YEARS AND/OR MORE THE VARIOUS MEMBERS OF THE CURRENT CABINET HAVE FOCUSED ON THIS AS AN ISSUE.

AS I MENTIONED TO HER, MY NUMBER ONE CONCERN WAS THE FINANCIAL HEALTH AND THE FUTURE OF OUR COUNTRY VIS-A-VIS THE DEBT AND THE CERTAINLY THE SPENDING LEVEL.

THEY'VE BEEN MINDFUL OF THIS.

IT WAS A PROJECT 2025 OF WHICH ONE OF THE MAJOR ARCHITECTS OF THAT PROGRAM IS NOW IN THE CABINET.

SO, WE HAVE, AS A 10,000-FOOT LEVEL, A DESIRE TO RESHAPE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

RESHAPE IT, INCORPORATING A LOT OF CHANGES.

NOW, LET'S GET BACK TO YOUR QUESTION.

HOW DOES THE SPENDING PROGRAMS AFFECT RESHAPING IT?

WELL, IF YOU BELIEVE, AS I DO, THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE DRASTIC MEASURES TO PREVENT THE BANKRUPTCY OF OUR COUNTRY, THEN LIKE I DID BACK IN THE OIL INDUSTRY IN THE LATE '80s, YOU HAVE TWO CHOICES.

YOU CAN TAKE A GRADUAL APPROACH, OR YOU CAN TAKE A MEAT CLEAVER.

YOU WILL SEE IN THE VARIOUS MEMBER OF THE CABINET A CLEAVER ACTION.

THEY'RE GOING IN AND THEY'RE TRYING TO SAVE THE PATIENT BY LOPPING OFF LIMBS.

YES, THEY'RE GET BONE.

THEY'RE GETTING SINEW.

THEY'RE GETTING FAT.

AND ALL OF US WHO LOOK AT THAT AND SAY THAT'S NOT AN EXACTLY AN EFFICIENT WAY OF EVALUATING PEOPLE.

AND THEY WOULD BE RIGHT ON THAT SUBJECT.

DOES THE URGENCY OF THE SITUATION CALL FOR THAT DRASTIC CUT?

I HAPPEN TO BELIEVE, AS THEY DO, IT HAS TO BE HAPPENING QUICKLY.

I DON'T LIKE IT, AS A PERSON WHO'S MUCH MORE INTERESTED IN EFFICIENCY AND KEEPING GOOD TALENT, BUT IT IS IN FACT GOING TO, HOPEFULLY, SAVE THE PATIENT.

>> Lou: OKAY.

WERE THERE ANY SPECIFIC CUTS THAT YOU'VE SEEN THAT YOU'VE TAKEN ISSUE WITH?

>> Jones: WELL, I ALWAYS HAVE A PROBLEM WITH REDUCTION IN FORCE.

RIF, IT'S CALLED.

RIF TOUCHES EACH AND EVERY FAMILY MEMBER THAT IS IN THAT BUCKET OF RIF IN A VERY, VERY PERSONAL AND IN MANY WAYS UNFORESEEABLE WAY.

DRASTIC CUTS, PEOPLE WHO HAVE SPENT MULTIPLE YEARS WORKING IN WHAT THEY CONSIDER TO BE THE BENEFIT OF THE VOTERS, AND YES, I HAVE THAT AS MY NUMBER ONE ISSUE.

RIF.

BECAUSE GOOD PEOPLE GET THROWN OUT.

IT'S THE BABY WITH THE BATH WATER.

GOOD PEOPLE GET THROWN OUT WITH THAT.

LATER ON, WE'RE GOING TO REGRET LOSING.

>> Lou: WHAT ABOUT ANY CUTS THAT YOU DO AGREE WITH?

WHERE DO YOU THINK IS AN AREA THAT NEEDED ATTENTION BEFORE THIS, AND YOU'VE SEEN THAT HAPPEN?

>> Jones: WELL, THE THING WHICH IS THE THIRD RAIL IN POLITICS.

BASICALLY, ALL OF THE ENTITLEMENTS PROGRAMS.

THERE'S ONLY A COUPLE OF WAYS YOU CAN APPROACH REDUCTION OF CORRUPTION AND WASTE IN THOSE PROGRAMS.

AND THAT IS TO GO INTO THE BOWELS OF IT TO LOOK AT WHERE IT IS NOT RUNNING EFFICIENTLY.

I APPROVE OF THE FACT, AND THIS DOESN'T SOUND WELL TO PEOPLE WHO ARE WORRIED ABOUT LOSING SOCIAL SECURITY, BUT I APPROVE OF THE CUTS BEING EVALUATED IN TERMS OF PEOPLE WHO SHOULD NOT BE RECEIVING THOSE BENEFITS.

BECAUSE THINK OF IT THIS WAY.

WHATEVER THEY RECEIVE DOES NOT GO TOWARD PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE RECEIVING IT.

AND, UNFORTUNATELY, THERE'S A LOT.

IF YOU TAKE, AT FACE VALUE, WHAT WE'RE BEING TOLD, THERE'S A LOT OF INEFFICIENCY AND CORRUPTION IN THE MEDICAL PROGRAMS AND SOCIAL SECURITY.

PROBABLY VETERANS BENEFITS.

SO, I APPROVE OF IT, EVEN THOUGH IT'S A POLITICALLY UNSAVORY THING TO BE DOING.

>> Lou: YOUR COMMENT ABOUT THROWING THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER, IS THERE ANY CONCERN ON YOUR PART THAT THAT'S HAPPENING WITH THOSE SPECIFIC PROGRAMS?

THESE ARE SOME OF OUR MOST VULNERABLE CITIZENS AND THERE HAVE BEEN REPORTS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE LEGITIMATELY BEEN RECEIVING THESE BENEFITS GETTING CAUGHT UP WITH THIS AND HAVING THAT CUT OFF AND THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT YIELD WHAT THEY ARE ENTITLED TO.

>> O'Donnell: AGAIN, I HOPE I DON'T COME ACROSS TO YOUR VIEWERS AS BEING CALLUS.

YEAH, THAT'S SOME OF THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES, CLEARLY.

AND TO EACH AND EVERY PERSON WHO IS RIGHTFULLY ENTITLED THAT GETS CAUGHT UP IN THIS, OUR HEARTS GO OUT TO THEM.

AND ALL US SHOULD BE WANTING TO PROTECT THESE PEOPLE.

BUT IN TERMS OF THE PROGRAM THAT IS AS EXTENSIVE AS THIS, THOSE INNOCENT VICTIMS WILL IN FACT BE PENALIZED.

>> Lou: I WANT TO GET TO IMMIGRATION, DETAINMENT, DEPORTATIONS.

WE'VE SEEN THE HEADLINES IN RECENT MONTHS ABOUT SUPPOSED MS-13 GANG MEMBERS BEING SENT TO PRISON IN EL SALVADOR.

WE KNOW, OF COURSE, THE MAN IN MISSOURI, THE FATHER WITH NO KNOWN TIES TO THAT OR ANY GANG WAS DEPORTED THERE.

NONE OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN GIVEN DUE PROCESS HEARINGS.

WE SAW ICE TAKE 48 PEOPLE FROM HERE IN NEW MEXICO WITH NO EXPLANATION LAST MONTH.

ARE THESE DETAINMENTS AND DEPORTATIONS BEING CARRIED OUT RESPONSIBLY, IN YOUR MIND?

>> Jones: I WANT TO BE CAREFUL IN MY RESPONSE TO YOU BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S A MUCH MORE CALCULATED ADMINISTRATIVE PURPOSE BEHIND THOSE THAN THE MEDIA HAVE RECOGNIZED.

AND THAT IS, LET'S JUST SAY FOR A MOMENT THAT WHAT YOU WANTED TO DO IS TO GET PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY NERVOUS TO SAY, 'HEY EXCEPT FOR GOD, THAT COULD BE ME SITTING IN A SALVADOR PRISON.'

I'M TALKING ABOUT SELF-DEPORTATION.

ABOUT THE MASSIVE PROGRAM WHERE PEOPLE KNOW THEY'VE BEEN -- IT'S BEEN DETERMINED THAT THEY'RE HERE ILLEGALLY.

SO, THAT MEDIA COVERAGE OF A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL HAS DONE MORE TO CAUSE SELF-DEPORTATION THAN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

SO, I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THAT THERE'S A COMBINED SET OF FORCES AT WORK HERE TO ACHIEVE THE GOAL OF TRYING TO GET OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM, WHICH IS ADMITTEDLY BROKEN, TO BE REPAIRED.

NOW, DUE PROCESS, I THINK THE DUE PROCESS SIDE OF THIS IS A PART OF A MUCH, MUCH BIGGER PLAN.

AND THAT IS THAT, AGAIN, IN TERMS OF RESHAPING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, I THINK WE ALL KNOW THAT ULTIMATELY THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH IS SEEKING TO GET MORE AND MORE POWER.

MORE AND MORE CONTROL.

MANY IN HIS ADMINISTRATION FEEL THAT WHERE WE HAVE HAD FAILURES IN OUR SYSTEM HAS BEEN IN CONGRESS.

THE CONGRESSIONAL PERSON ELECTED BY THEIR DISTRICT GOES TO CONGRESS AND THEN WORKS THEIR OWN ENDS.

SO, I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENING IS WE'RE SEEING A SHIFT OF POWER AWAY FROM THE CONGRESSIONAL BRANCH, THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH.

AND, SADLY, MAYBE IN THE JUDICIAL BRANCH.

SO, AGAIN, DUE PROCESS IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE ALWAYS HOPED FOR IN OUR PROCESS OF CHECKS AND BALANCES, BUT HERE WE ARE SEEING, REALTIME, A TEST OF THAT CONCEPT.

>> Lou: SHOULD THAT BE A WORRY FOR US?

>> Jones: BIG TIME.

THAT'S MY NUMBER ONE WORRY.

WHATEVER GOOD YOU THINK THESE CHANGES ARE ACCOMPLISHING, AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT HOW MUCH POWER IS BEING TRANSFERRED TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH IN GENERAL AND TO THE PRESIDENT IN PARTICULAR.

I WORRY ABOUT THAT BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW THAT HE ENVIES THOSE WHO HAVE MUCH MORE AUTHORITY THAN OUR OWN EXECUTIVE BRANCH HAS.

>> Lou: SO, WHO NEEDS TO STEP UP IN THIS SITUATION THEN?

[STEVE LAUGHS] >> Lou: HOW DO WE AVOID WHAT YOU'RE SPELLING OUT AS WHAT IS CLEARLY HIS ROADMAP FOR MORE POWER?

>> Jones: WELL, I CAN TELL YOU WHO IS NOT DOING IT THAT SHOULD BE, AND THAT IS THE LOYAL OPPOSITION.

THE LOYAL OPPOSITION IS IN SUCH DISARRAY THAT I'M AFRAID NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY NO ONE IS GOING TO PAY ATTENTION.

THEY'VE CRIED WOLF TOO MUCH.

THEY'RE FOCUSED ON THE MINUSCULE MICROSCOPIC.

I'M SORRY TO SAY, THE GENTLEMAN WHO GOT DEPORTED, WHETHER IT WAS RIGHT OR WRONG, EVERYBODY'S FOCUSING ON THAT WHILE THE OTHER HAND IS OVER HERE DOING SOMETHING THAT IS FAR, FAR MORE POTENTIALLY DETRIMENTAL TO OUR COUNTRY.

>> Lou: PRESIDENT TRUMP, THIS WEEK, ISSUED A MEMO LAYING OUT HIS INTENT TO SEND THE MILITARY TO PUBLIC LANDS ON THE SOUTHERN BORDER.

HE WANTS TO REPEL INVASIONS, IN HIS WORDS.

AND THE MILITARY ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK THAT IT WAS AUTHORIZED TO DETAIN MIGRANTS.

IS THE MILITARY A BRIDGE TOO FAR FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

OR DO YOU THINK THE PRESIDENT'S ACTIONS ARE APPROPRIATE HERE?

>> Jones: WELL, THOSE ARE TWO EXCELLENT POINTS.

IS IT A BRIDGE TOO FAR?

YES.

I THINK THE PROBLEM WITH BRINGING IN THE MILITARY IN AT THIS POINT IS WE'VE ALREADY ESTABLISHED THAT THE PEOPLE WE HIRED TO DO THAT JOB ARE DOING AN ADMIRABLE JOB.

IT'S WELL UNDER CONTROL.

WE HAVE RECORD-LOW ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

I PERSONALLY HAVE BEEN ACROSS THE BORDER, PROBABLY HALF A DOZEN TIMES, OVER THIS LAST YEAR.

IT'S AN ORDERLY FLOW.

THERE'S NO ANGER ON THE OTHER SIDE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ILLEGALLY REQUESTING TO BE ADMITTED.

SO, IS THE MILITARY A SLEDGEHAMMER IN THIS INSTANCE?

YEAH, I THINK SO.

BUT BACK TO WHAT IS TRYING TO BE COMMUNICATED, AND THAT IS THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE ONGOING PROCESS.

PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE SELECTED TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR COUNTRY.

AND THAT, AGAIN, IS I BELIEVE A PART AND PARCEL OF GETTING THE PEOPLE WILLINGLY TO SELF-DEPORT.

IT COULD BE -- THAT'S PRETTY SCARY TO ME TO SAY I'M GOING TO BE CONFRONTED WITH AN ARMED SOLDIER AT THE BORDER.

THAT CERTAINLY WOULD CAUSE ME TO HAVE SECOND THOUGHTS.

>> Lou: STEVE JONES, THANKS SO MUCH.

I APPRECIATE THE TIME.

>> Jones: THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> Gwyneth: THANKS TO LOU AND STEVE JONES.

YOU CAN WATCH THEIR FULLINTERVIEW ON THE NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS YOUTUBE PAGE, OR LISTEN ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS THE PODCAST.

POPE FRANCIS DIED MONDAY AT HIS RESIDENCE IN THE VATICAN, JUST HOURS AFTER HEADING A SUNDAY EASTER MASS.

HE WAS 88.

ELECTED THROUGH A CONCLAVE IN 2013, POPE FRANCIS WAS THE FIRST LATIN-AMERICAN TO LEAD THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, AND THE FIRST TO HAVE BEEN BORN OUTSIDE OF EUROPE IN MORE THAN A MILLENNIUM.

HIS SPANISH SERMONS TOUCHED MANY AROUND THE WORLD AND HERE IN NEW MEXICO, WHERE A MAJORITY OF CATHOLICS ARE HISPANIC.

EARLIER THIS WEEK, LOU SPOKE WITH SANTA FE ARCHBISHOP JOHN WESTER, WHO WAS FIRST APPOINTED IN 2015 BY POPE FRANCIS.

FOR MORE ON HIS LEGACY AND THE CHURCH'S FUTURE, HERE'S THAT CONVERSATION.

>> Lou: ARCHBISHOP JOHN WESTER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> Wester: THANK YOU.

NICE TO BE WITH YOU, LOU.

>> Lou: YEAH, GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

NOW, AS WE RECORD THIS, WE'RE ONLY A DAY REMOVED FROM THE DEATH OF POPE FRANCIS.

AS ARCHBISHOP, HOW ARE YOU GRIEVING THIS LOSS?

>> Wester: WELL, IT'S INTERESTING.

OBVIOUSLY, THE POPE'S THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY -- OUR LIFE HERE IN NEW MEXICO IS MUCH DIFFERENT THAN ROME AND THE VATICAN.

I REALLY FELT THAT -- I'M REALLY FOND OF POPE FRANCIS.

I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY WITH HIM DIFFERENT TIMES.

I JUST REALLY WAS DRAWN TO HIM BY HIS GENTLENESS, HIS HUMOR, HIS HUMILITY.

I STILL REMEMBER STANDING WITH OTHER BISHOPS IN WASHINGTON -- EXCUSE ME.

YEAH, WASHINGTON.

ST. MATTHEW'S CATHEDRAL.

HE WAS -- YOU EXPECT HIM TO BE IN ONE OF THESE BIG BLACK SUVs, AND HE WAS IN A FIAT.

A LITTLE TINY FIAT.

SO, I SAID TO THE SECURITY, 'WELL, I GUESS IT'S ONE OF THE ESPECIALLY APPOINTED FIATS WITH BULLETPROOF GLASS.'

HE SAID, 'NO, IT'S JUST A FIAT.'

HE SAID IT'S VERY DIFFICULT -- POPE FRANCIS JUST WANTS TO BE WITH THE PEOPLE.

HE DOESN'T LIKE A LOT OF POMP AND CIRCUMSTANCE.

HE WANTS TO LIVE SIMPLY.

I JUST REALLY ADMIRE THAT.

>> Lou: NOW, POPE FRANCIS, AS YOU MENTIONED, HE STOOD OUT AMONG HIS PREDECESSORS IN A LOT OF WAYS, INCLUDING THAT.

NOTABLY, HE WAS THE FIRST LATIN-AMERICAN PONTIFF.

THE FIRST OF THE JESUIT ORDER.

HOW IS HIS APPROACH TO THE PAPACY ALSO UNIQUE?

>> Wester: I THINK, FOR ME, POPE FRANCIS OBVIOUSLY HAS A LOT OF CONTINUITY WITH THIS PREDECESSORS.

BUT I THINK HE REALLY RAISED UP THE IMPORTANCE OF PASTORAL MINISTRY AS A POPE.

HE'S NOT JUST A BUREAUCRAT OR AN ADMINISTRATOR OR A TEACHER WITH DOCUMENTS AND SUCH.

BUT THAT HE IS ALL OF THAT, BUT HE'S REALLY PASTORAL.

HE CARES ABOUT PEOPLE.

AND HE WANTS TO BE WITH THE PEOPLE AND BRING CHRIST'S LOVE AND MERCY AND COMPASSION TO THEM.

SO, HE DID THAT IN ANY WAY THAT HE COULD.

WHETHER IT BE HUGGING THAT GENTLEMAN WITH THAT DISEASE WHERE HE HAD TUMORS ALL SKIN, OR WHETHER IT BE RUSHING TO LAMPEDUSA TO PRAY FOR THE IMMIGRANTS WHO WERE DROWNING IN THE MEDITERRANEAN SEA.

NO MATTER WHAT IT WAS, HE WAS CONSTANTLY TRYING TO COMMUNICATE TO PEOPLE THAT THE CHURCH CARES ABOUT YOU.

>> Lou: HUNDREDS OF CATHOLICS AND NON-CATHOLICS ALIKE HAVE BEEN STREAMING INTO YOUR CATHEDRAL, THE BASILICA IN SANTA FE, AND ACROSS NEW MEXICO SINCE THE POPE'S DEATH.

WHAT REFLECTIONS HAVE YOU HEARD FROM THOSE COMING INTO YOUR CHURCH?

>> Wester: THEY'RE VERY PERSONAL COMMENTS THAT PEOPLE SAY.

THEY SAY I'M REALLY GOING TO MISS HIM, OR I WAS REALLY FOND OF HIM, OR HE REALLY MEANT A LOT TO ME.

IT'S CLEAR TO ME THAT HE DID CONNECT WITH PEOPLE.

AND THAT THEY APPRECIATED HIM.

AS YOU SAID, CATHOLICS AND NON-CATHOLICS.

I WAS VERY EDIFIED AND GRATEFUL TO HAVE THE PRESENCE OF THE EPISCOPAL PRIEST.

FATHER ROBERT WAS THERE YESTERDAY.

REVEREND HARRY WAS THERE.

TALITHA WAS THERE FROM THE UNITED CHURCH.

REVEREND TALITHA.

AND WE HAD SOME GOOD REPRESENTATION THERE.

MARK WAS THEREFROM EPISCOPAL CHURCH.

WE HAD RABBI NIEL AMSWYCH SEND ME A MESSAGE OF CONDOLENCE.

I WAS VERY PLEASED TO SEE THAT PEOPLE CONNECTED TO POPE FRANCIS.

SO, IT WAS KIND OF -- YOU KNOW, I THINK HE WAS REALLY WELL LOVED.

AND ANY OPPOSITION THAT HE DID GET, AND THE PUSHBACK HE DID GET, SADLY, CAME FROM WITHIN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, NOT FROM WITHOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

>> Lou: OF COURSE, YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO RELATE TO THIS.

LIVING IN NEW MEXICO, THE MAJORITY OF NEW MEXICAN CATHOLICS ARE HISPANIC.

WHAT HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE, OVER THE YEARS, THAT THAT PLAYED FOR THEM?

THE FACT THAT HE WAS LATIN-AMERICAN AND THAT HE SPOKE SPANISH.

>> Wester: I THINK THAT WAS A BIG PART OF HIS APPEAL TO OUR LATINO AND HISPANIC PARISHIONERS.

I THINK THAT MEANT A LOT TO THEM.

I THINK THEY'RE PROUD THAT ONE OF THEIR OWN, SO TO SPEAK, WAS ELECTED AS POPE.

I THINK, TOO, IT'S MORE THAN JUST THE LANGUAGE.

I THINK THE CULTURE.

YOU KNOW, THE LATIN-AMERICAN CULTURE IS ONE THAT'S VERY CARING, VERY COMPASSIONATE, VERY FAMILY-ORIENTED.

IT'S A CULTURE THAT CARES ABOUT UNITY, I WOULD SAY, MORE THAN IDEOLOGY.

I'M PAINTING THIS WITH A BROAD BRUSH.

I THINK THOSE ARE THEMES THAT ARE VALID FOR THAT CULTURE.

I THINK THAT THE POPE BROUGHT THAT TO THE PAPACY.

>> Lou: POPE FRANCIS APPOINTED YOU IN 2015.

AND YOU GOT TO MEET HIM ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS.

YOU MENTIONED ONE OF THOSE.

THE TWO OF YOU AGREED ON SEVERAL KEY ISSUES.

WHAT ARE SOME OTHER STORIES THAT YOU HAVE ABOUT THE MOMENTS WITH HIM?

AND WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT YOUR AGREEMENT ON KEY ISSUES?

>> Wester: ON THE KEY ISSUES, TO ME, HE WAS WILLING TO BOLDLY -- I'LL USE THE STAR TREK, BOLDLY GO WHERE NO ONE HAS GONE BEFORE.

HE WAS ABLE TO -- HE WAS A UNIFIER, BUT HE WAS NOT TEPID.

HE WASN'T TIMID.

HE WAS ABLE TO TAKE STEPS HE THOUGHT THAT NEEDED TO BE TAKEN.

AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS VERY IMPORTANT.

SO, REACHING OUT TO THE LBGTQ COMMUNITY.

FOR EXAMPLE, THAT FAMOUS LINE THAT GETS QUOTED A LOT, ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT OFTEN PUT IN CONTEXT.

BUT HE SAID, 'WHO AM I TO JUDGE?'

HE WOULD SAY AMBIGUOUS THINGS FROM TIME TO TIME.

I THINK MY SENSE IS THAT HE WAS NOT ONLY OKAY WITH THAT, BUT HE THOUGHT WAS A GOOD THING.

IN OTHER WORDS, LET'S PROBE THIS A BIT.

ONE OF HIS QUOTES I'VE USED A LOT IS PART OF OUR ROLE AS BISHOPS IS TO TEACH.

WE'RE TEACHERS IN THE CHURCH.

TEACH, GOVERN AND SANCTIFY ARE THE THREE MAIN AREAS OF WHAT WE DO AS BISHOP.

THE POPE SAID, YES, THE BISHOP MUST TEACH, BUT A GOOD TEACHER LISTENS FIRST.

I THINK POPE FRANCIS DEMONSTRATED THAT.

HE LISTENED TO PEOPLE.

HE DIDN'T JUST GO OFF AND SAY, OKAY, YOU'RE WRONG OR WHATEVER.

BUT HE SAID, WELL, LET ME HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY.

WHAT'S YOUR EXPERIENCE?

WHAT IS IT LIKE TO BE A SINGLE MOM RAISING TWO CHILDREN?

OR WHAT'S IT LIKE TO BE UNEMPLOYED?

WHAT'S IT LIKE TO BE LIVING IN GAZA RIGHT NOW?

HE CALLED THAT ONE PARISH, THE ONE CATHOLIC PARISH IN GAZA, HE CALLED THEM -- EVEN IN THE HOSPITAL WHEN HE WAS SICK WITH PNEUMONIA, PRETTY MUCH EVERY DAY HE CALLED THEM AND LET THEM KNOW HE WAS PRAYING FOR THEM.

AND GIVING THEM SUPPORT.

MORAL SUPPORT.

SO, HE WAS SOMEBODY WHO LISTENED TO PEOPLE AND ENCOUNTERED PEOPLE.

HE BELIEVED IN ENCOUNTERING PEOPLE AND JOURNEYING WITH THEM.

AND IN THE MIDST OF THAT JOURNEY, HE CAN PROCLAIM THE GOSPEL AND IF PEOPLE WERE OPEN TO IT, THEN THAT WAS GOOD.

SO, HE DIDN'T -- HE WAS JUST -- HIS STYLE, HIS APPROACH WAS VERY HUMAN.

VERY COMPASSIONATE.

AND I REALLY ADMIRE THAT.

>> Lou: SANTA FE CATHEDRAL BASILICA ST. FRANCIS OF ASSISI IS NAMED AFTER THE SAINT WHOM POPE FRANCIS TOOK HIS NAME.

WHO WAS ST. FRANCIS OF ASSISI?

AND WHAT DID HIS LEGACY TELL US ABOUT THE VALUE OF THE LATE POPE AND POTENTIALLY THE ARCHDIOCESE OF SANTA FE AS WELL?

>> Wester: THAT WAS VERY SIGNIFICANT.

WE ALL THOUGHT, WHEN HE WAS FIRST ELECTED IN 2013, THAT HE SAID I WILL BE CALLED FRANCIS.

WE THOUGHT, OF COURSE, RIGHT AWAY FRANCIS XAVIER WHO IS A JESUIT SAINT.

AND HE'S A JESUIT.

BUT HE CLARIFIED THAT IMMEDIATELY.

HE SAID, NO, I MEAN ST. FRANCIS OF ASSISI.

SOMETIMES CALLED THE POVERINO OF ASSISI.

THE POOR ONE OF ASSISI.

THAT SAID VOLUMES RIGHT THERE.

IN 2,000 YEARS OF POPES, HE'S THE FIRST ONE TO TAKE THE NAME.

SO, THAT WAS REALLY QUITE SIGNIFICANT, WHERE HIS HEART WAS.

>> Lou: NOW, WITH THE PROCESS OF SELECTING THE NEW POPE ON THE HORIZON, ARE YOU CONCERNED AT ALL ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF A NEW LEADER WHO DOESN'T SHARE YOUR OPINIONS ON SOME OF THE SOCIAL AND HUMANITARIAN ISSUES, THE COMPASSION, PERHAPS?

I'M NOT INSINUATING THAT THE NEW POPE WOULDN'T BE COMPASSIONATE, BUT TO THE LEVEL OF POPE FRANCIS.

AND WHAT WOULD THAT MEAN FOR NEW MEXICO?

WHAT ARE YOU HOPING FOR IN THIS SELECTION PROCESS?

>> Wester: I'LL SAY, AM I HOPEFUL?

I SAY, YES AND NO.

YES, SO FAR AS I REALLY DO BELIEVE THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT GUIDES THE PROCESS.

REMEMBER, FRANCIS WAS ELECTED BY CARDINALS, MOST OF WHOM APPOINTED BY POPE JOHN PAUL II AND POPE BENEDICT.

SO, IF PEOPLE SEE A SHIFT -- IT'S INTERESTING THAT THE CARDINALS THAT ELECTED FRANCIS WAS APPOINTED BY THOSE POPES.

ON THE OTHER HAND, IT'S A DIVINE AND HUMAN CHURCH.

SO, POLITICS HAS ITS PLACE.

I KNOW FOR SOME PEOPLE POLITICS IS A DIRTY WORD, BUT REALITY IS IT'S POLITICAL.

THEY'RE GOING TO BE THINKING ABOUT WHO IS IT GOING TO BE.

AND THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO PICK THE PERSON WHO WILL -- THEY'LL LOOK AT WHAT'S BEEN GOING ON.

WHERE HAVE WE BEEN.

WHERE WE ARE.

WHERE WE'RE GOING TO GO.

AND TRY AND GET THE BEST PERSON FOR THAT.

SO MY HOPE WOULD BE THAT IT WOULD BE SOMEONE VERY MUCH LIKE FRANCIS.

POPE FRANCIS II.

AND SOMEBODY THAT WILL CONTINUE HIS LEGACY OF LISTENING AND CARING FOR THE POOR.

I THINK, ALSO, GIVEN THE GEOPOLITICAL STAGE WE'RE ON TODAY IN THE WORLD, I WOULD HOPE -- I SEE MYSELF, THE POPE, AND OTHER RELIGIONS TOO OF COURSE, BUT I SEE THE POPE AS STANDING AGAINST A LOT OF WHAT WE'RE SEEING TODAY IN THE WORLD.

DICTATORS, AUTHORITARIANISM, A DISREGARD FOR THE POOR, PEOPLE IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES.

DISREGARD FOR CLIMATE DISRUPTION AND CLIMATE CHANGE.

DISREGARD FOR THE DIGNITY OF WORKER.

A DISREGARD FOR IMMIGRANTS.

PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE MOVE FLEEING PERSECUTION OR A DISREGARD FOR THE DIGNITY OF THE HUMAN PERSON.

A LOT OF THE POLITICAL LEADERS WE SEE IN THE WORLD TODAY ARE VERY MUCH, IN MY VIEW, TUNED TO THE RICH.

MONEY SEEMS TO BE THE DRIVING FORCE, IF YOU GET DOWN TO IT.

AND THE POPE, I THINK, STANDS AGAINST ALL THAT.

AND SAYS, NO, IT'S NOT ABOUT MONEY.

IT'S THE WORKER.

IT'S THE PERSON.

WE CAN TRANSFER ACROSS BORDERS MONEY AND GOODS BUT NOT PEOPLE.

PEOPLE ARE EXPENDABLE.

AS LONG AS THE MONEY GET THERE'S, AS LONG AS THE GOOD GETS THERE, BUT PEOPLE WE DON'T CARE SO MUCH ABOUT.

THAT'S THE MESSAGE I GET FROM A LOT OF THE GOVERNMENTS AROUND THE WORLD TODAY.

MORE AND MORE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, AND CERTAINLY OTHER CHURCHES AS WELL, NEED TO STAND UP AGAINST THAT, AND NEED TO PROCLAIM THE GOSPEL.

THIS IS JUST NOT RIGHT.

>> Lou: I APPRECIATE THAT.

ARCHBISHOP WESTER, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Wester: YOU'RE WELCOME, LOU.

ALWAYS GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

THANKS VERY MUCH.

>> Gwyneth: THANKS TO ARCHBISHOP JOHN WESTER AND THANKS TO EVERYONE ELSE WHO CONTRIBUTED TO THE SHOW.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.