Gene: Thanks Kevin.

Hey folks.

Glad to have  you.

It's Wednesday, noon.

It's time for another   Facebook Live brought to you by New Mexico in  Focus and New Mexico PBS.

Appreciate you spending   some time with us.

If you're watching this after  the noon hour on Wednesday, thank you for joining   us as well.

I appreciate it.

You see Laura Paskus  there.

If you watch our show, you're familiar   with her face and her wonderful environmental work  she's been doing with us regarding, of course PFAS   on our military installments around the state.

But she does a lot more than that certainly, as   you know, as a watcher and we've got some things  to talk about today.

This Friday night Laura is   going to be talking about monsoon and how it's  been affected by climate change here in our state.

How we're dealing with it as well as we're going  to discuss of course what came out on Monday,   which is the new IPCC report on climate  change.

It was, it's been heralded all   week as something we all need to pay attention  to starting now.

So, I want to welcome Laura.

Laura: Thank you.

Gene: I want to, oh   before I forget.

She is also an author.

I am so  sorry about that.

The name of the book is “At the   Precipice: New Mexico's Changing Climate.” And,  I'm very pleased to bring Laura Paskus to our   Facebook live.

Laura how are you?

Good to see you.

Laura: I'm doing great.

Thanks for having me,   Gene.

It's really nice to be talking to you today.

Gene: Absolutely.

It's good stuff.

Let's talk   about monsoon.

It's on everyone's minds.

We got  a lot of moisture coming down, seemingly out of   nowhere.

If you've moved here in the last 10  years you might not know what this is about,   but drought followed by heavy water.

There's  something going on here with a pattern here.

What's happening.

Why is so hot and then so wet?

Laura: Yeah that's a great question.

So on Friday   night we're going to have Daniel Porter from  the National Weather Service here in Albuquerque   on the show and he talks with me about our current  monsoon season.

In lots of places around the   state, a few weeks ago we saw major flooding  in places like Dona Ana county and Carlsbad   and that's really a part of  a pattern that we're seeing   globally, which is an intensification of our water  cycle.

And so at the same time that we have things   like the Rio Grande going dry and super hot days,  we can also have these very localized storms that   dump a ton of water in one place and that can help  if there's sustained rains over a period of time,   that can help alleviate drought conditions in  some ways.

But it also contributes to flooding   problems with infrastructure and a lot of  that, just sort of, whooshes and runs off   and you hope that it collects in the  reservoirs but yeah, it's a part of this this   experiment we're seeing across our planet really.

Gene: That's right.

You know one of the terms   that's sort of out there maybe not fully  in the public's purview, but I know a lot   of scientists are using the idea of a compound  extreme event, meaning it's not just one thing   but things, because of the cycle we're  in I think that's what you're saying here   we can expect more to happen even if it's just  rain or just heat.

Am I on the correct path there?

Laura: Yeah, that's such a great point and so this  is something that we see here in the state and is   also emphasized in the IPCC report you mentioned  that came out on Monday.

And so what that really   means is, just to give some examples of things  that we see here in New Mexico and we'll see   more and more is drought which is a lack of  precipitation on top of rising temperatures.

So that increases ratification but you also  have things like a longer growing season   on top of less water supply or more extreme  weather events those early freezes those   wind events that knock your orchard trees  down, flooding that ruins your chile crop   also things like drought plus wind drying out  your soils, causing dust storms, driving wildfires   and then things like you have a forest fire in  your watershed and that denudes the landscape and   affects the whole watershed downstream.

So, it's  not just rising temperatures or just drought it's   all these things that interact with one another.

Gene: When you go through that list,   I'm also hearing dollar signs.

We're seeing  dollar signs.

This costs money to manage   it would seem to me if you're a farmer if you're  growing anything, you've got to change your whole   game now.

Is that something you guys are going  to be talking about on Friday night as well, how   folks are responding to climate change?

Laura: Yeah, we're not talking about that   specifically on Friday night but we do have  some shows coming up later in the summer and   into the fall looking at how climate  change, whether it's water insecurity   or these extreme weather events, how these  are happening and compounding and affecting   food supplies in the short term and the long  term in terms of, not just the prices you pay,   but what's actually going to be available in  supermarkets and how farmers can make a living.

You know, it's already a tough  business where people rely very heavily   on federal subsidies in particular to even  survive.

So what is, you know, what does our   food supply look like in the climate change world.

Gene: For folks who may not know how close are we   to dead center here in New Mexico for the idea  of drought coming in the next you know 10 to 20   years, are we vulnerable here in New Mexico?

Laura: So, that's such a great question.

One   of the things when I was looking through the  IPCC report yesterday, kind of like, looking,   obviously, you know this looks at the entire  globe and impacts across the entire planet, but   the southwestern United States makes quite  a few specific appearances, which is pretty   disheartening.

But so, one of the things that  really jumped out at me is, you know, these   reports look at sort of models into the future  what will happen with temperature rises if we emit   fewer greenhouse gases.

If we continue on the… if  we can….

if we emit even more and lays out these   different scenarios and so in the IPCC report  that came out on Monday, it says even under a   low emissions scenario, the likelihood of extreme  drought increases by 100 and it lists a number of   places in Southwestern North America as the first  place on that list.

So, even if we do a great job   cutting our emissions, we're still facing these  really extreme drought conditions into the future.

Gene: Absolutely.

We might as well get right  to at the U.N.’s intergovernmental panel on   climate change.

You hear us refer to them as the  IPCC of course and on Monday as Laura mentioned   they published their, you know, I don't know  how else to say it, their clearest picture yet   on the updated science of planetary heating.

I  mean it really in case nobody knows, it's nearly   4,000 pages.

It's pretty long.

I haven't gotten  through it personally.

I'm still getting there,   authored by 234 scientists from 66 nations over  500 other scientists contributed to that report   and emphasizes that climate change is widespread  and as Laura just said intensifying and that's the   part Laura that really kind of blew me away here…  that even if we did everything we could right now,   we're still going to have a lot of rising  happening over the next 30 years or so.

How do, in your view, how does this increase  the will to make change knowing this now.

Laura: I mean you know we have known about  climate change for a long time and we've   known even these IPCC reports have been coming  out since 1990 and they've said the same thing   just with increasing urgency and increasing  certainty over the past three decades and yet as a   as a society, particularly industrialized nations  like the United States, we have not committed even   with the best available science in front of us.

We've not committed to cutting our greenhouse   gas emissions in any serious ways and I think you  know it's I think it is hard for people to think   when a big report like this comes out and it makes  headlines for a couple of days people think holy   smokes we are so in so much trouble.

what's the  point of even trying if like you noted the impacts   are going to continue even if we stopped emitting  greenhouse gases today.

but I think I think   it's easy to get caught up in the sort of  hopelessness and despair but we have the   knowledge that we need, we have the tools  we need.

it's just making sure that we are   ready and able to commit to future generations,  because right now we do have the tools to   stave off the worst of the impacts that reports  like this portray.

every day that we wait,   every year, every generation that we pass this  on to they have less and less time and fewer and   fewer tools and opportunities.

So I think that we  should really take this moment as like this really   exciting moment to say like  enough, we're done messing around   as a species we're gonna tackle this.

Gene: I got a question for you from our Facebook   thread.

Appreciate it, from Colton… asks how  can New Mexico, a landlocked high desert,   prepare for climate change?

Laura: That's a great question.

So one of the biggest things  we need to be doing as a state   is water planning and there are there are plans  and discussions and programs underway as far as   I understand it they are woefully underfunded  by the legislature.

if you look at various   initiatives in the state that we commit to funding  water planning is has not traditionally been one   of them.

so water planning and water planning  under the umbrella of, we already know that   we're going to have less water in our system.

We're going to have this intensified hydrological   system.

We know what's coming, so let's be  planning, given those constraints and those   realities.

That's a big one.

New Mexico really  needs to grapple with the fact that we are an   oil and gas producing state we are directly  responsible for the changing of the climate   that we are experiencing so intensely already so  we really need as a state to come to terms with   do we value our agriculture and the future of  our of our landscapes and communities and rivers   or do we value oil and gas extraction because  those things are at odds with one another and   it's a tricky complicated issue and i am confident  that we can find solutions.

so those are really   two of the big things.

You know then, there's kind  of all sorts of community pieces to that too.

if   you live in a place where you're vulnerable to  wildfire, making sure your community is firewise   you know being cautious and careful about where we  build ensuring that our buildings moving forward   are energy efficient and also able to keep  families and people safe during extreme heat   events.

So there's so much that we can be doing.

Geme: I'm interested in listening to you say this   because when I think about, if I try to put myself  in the place of people in municipalities, city   government, you know, county government, you've  got to start planning for a much different, you   know, sort of scene outside where your bus stops.

you know, how long people walk to certain things.

I mean, there's a lot of impact with heat,  when it comes to elderly people.

Our average   age is creeping up here in New Mexico.

We  have a lot… we have a lot to think about   when it comes to managing heat and how we do our  day-to-day lives.

What's your sense of how you're   hearing governments respond to this so far?

Laura: Yeah, so I spoke with someone in the   sustainability office in Las Cruces and this  was a few years ago now, but had a fascinating   conversation with her about the issues that  they're looking at and planning for and facing and   you know these things are all tied in with like  zoning and planning and kind of the day-to-day   government issues.

and so thinking about, you  know, if you're looking at, you know, a five   degree increase in hot days that's the difference  between 103 and 108 in places in southern New   Mexico or even more, so, you know, people can't  we can't it's not safe for people to be living and   say cinder block construction homes with  evaporative coolers because above a certain   temperature swamp coolers just don't  cool you off.

and so what are we doing   to ensure people are safe and you bring  up a really great point about bus stops   and people who have to walk to work or bike to  work.

you know we really have to be taking care of   one another and using all the tools that we have  from local laws and regulations and planning and   zoning all the way up to the federal level.

Gene: I’ve got to ask you as an author,   you obviously, you lean into this and I would  encourage folks to go to the UNM Press website to   get a hold of Laura's book, by the way.

Do you have any recommendations for folks   who are now saying, you know, what I need to  learn a bit more about this some things.

I'm   behind.

Do you have any publications you can  recommend or books you can recommend to folks   out there to get them caught up on all this?

Laura: Yeah, gosh, there's so many great books   out right now.

You know, one that I really  love that Bill Debuys wrote a few years ago   was called “The Great Aidness” that focuses  on the southwest.

John Fleck has written a   couple of books about the Colorado River  specifically, but Elizabeth Colbert has a   new book out about climate change and her older  book field notes from a catastrophe is amazing.

There's a, Michael Mann has the book out right  now that is focused on the you know kind of   why the climate is changing, how the climate is  changing, but also how, you know, big business   and corporations have helped us feel despairing  about this.

And I would be happy to kind of like   write up a little list for people and we  can post that on Facebook or wherever it   would be useful because there's so many great  books out there right now that look at climate   change from all different kinds of angles.

Gene: I love it.

That'll be a great list.

You know the reason I ask you that and I know  you know this so I'm not telling you anything   you don't know, but this is an age of cynicism  and I get frustrated.

I'm sure you get terribly   frustrated with the idea that folks try to tell  people that even a one degree celsius change   has enormous ramifications for the planet, for  wildlife, for plants for how we farm, how we eat,   how we fuel our vehicles, everything….

let  alone 2.7 which is some of the predictions   coming, which would have enormous  consequences for our oceans,   our rivers, our lakes.

I mean, no part of  the world is going to be untouched by this   and we were joking, not joking, we're saying off  here's what went on I checked some of the foreign   tv news just before we went on it was all about  fires.

Every story was about a fire.

Greek,   Greece is having a hard time right now.

it's just  really a pall of smoke over a lot of European   countries right now and it's really kind of a  difficulty.

How do we punch through this cynicism,   this age of cynicism to say folks you have  a hand in this.

You can either make it worse   by your own actions or you can make it better  by your own actions as well.

What's it going   to take do you think to flip people here?

Laura: Yeah, some people are probably really   sick of me, hearing me say this, but I believe  that this is true it is a matter of connecting   and joy and love with our landscapes  our rivers and our communities.

You know, for, for example it's a really hard  to see our Rio Grande dry in the summer and be   as low as it is, even through Albuquerque  right now and I can look at that river and   cry and I do sometimes and i cry and i  feel so hopeless and angry and frustrated   and like a failure.

Or I can go out there and go  for a run or a walk or waiting in the river and   I can see what birds are there and I can bring  people I love to that place and share that place   and I think by connecting with our places and here  in New Mexico we have the best places we connect   in love and joy with these places we will protect  them we will see how they're changing and we have   a personal stake in protecting them and when we  you know a number of people have talked about how   one of the most important things in terms  of adaptation to climate change is community   and if you have a close community, if you are a  community of people who care about one another,   you'll take care of one another.

and so I know  that's like kind of a cheesy answer but it's   honestly, it's the one that gets me through  every day of feeling like this is big and what   part can i play?

i can connect and i can love and  i can think about how to face these challenges.

Gene: Good points there and I gotta  imagine the easier push might be I'm not,   I'm guessing here but might be with children  versus cynical adults.

We don't want to hear   anything is that part of the plan here?

I'm  not the plan that's not a good way to put it   it's part of the education is to educate young  kids to get them to care about the planet maybe   just a little bit more than their parents did?

Laura: Yeah that's a great point.

I mean young   people today they understand the climate is  changing.

they understand why.

They understand   what's going to happen.

They understand  that adults are failing them and they're   in many ways angry and they're also many of  the youth activists I meet are like, all right,   yeah, we're taking charge with you guys.

You  guys haven't, you guys haven't had the strength   or the perseverance to tackle this, so we'll, you  know, you left us with fewer tools in less time,   but we'll take care of this.

Gene: I got a point from the thread comment,   thread… appreciate it.

It's from Leah.

Thank  you Leah.

She makes an interesting point here,   Leah says grow hemp to fight climate change  and that the terpene Pinene blocks UV rays.

that's an interesting point there.

Hemp  is the thing right now isn't it.

I mean   getting farmers to adopt low  water use crops.

How hard has that   been and do we have a better chance going forward?

Laura: Yeah, so one… I would put a plug in for   the growing forward podcast and like you know  they're tackling that podcast here at knme in   collaboration with New Mexico report and kunm  really looking at these issues and recreational   cannabis and hemp and in this sorts of challenges  and changes.

so there's that, you know, anytime we   talk about making agricultural changes it can be  tricky.

it's like, you know there's technological   changes, there's cultural adaptations, there's  investments, but they're also sometimes we mess   up and I'm not saying this with hemp because  I don't know enough about it but sometimes   we encourage changes and we don't know what there  are unintended consequences and just as an example   you know years ago there was this move in the  lower Rio Grande in New Mexico around Dona And   county and the Elephant Butte irrigation district  to move farmers away from low-income crops like   alfalfa for instance and to move transition  toward pecans and orchards and what happened was   they kind of uh you can follow your alfalfa fields  in a bad year and not lose your entire farm if you   can't follow your orchards so you know it's these  these sorts of these sorts of changes require a   lot of, a lot of effort and thought and I hope  that hemp is a positive change for New Mexico's   farmers but I'm not up to date on that issue  in particular.

We'll leave that for the folks   that down at New Mexico state they they're all  over that they get the hemp thing down on lock.

Gene: I love it Laura.

I can't thank you enough  for spending some time with us this is you know   this week especially it really lined up you know  we get a lot of great feedback whenever you're   doing something on the show and Friday  and of course I want folks to tune in to   see that interview Laura talked about earlier  that she's going to have but then also do yourself   a favor and backstop your knowledge with the  IPCC report the links are everywhere out there   it's not hard to find there are basically  like everything else an executive summary,   there's ways to get into specifics about the  southwest so you don't have to slog through   4,000 pages if you don't want to.

But, at the same  time the stuff about the southwest is shocking.

So you know maybe this is one of those moments  we want to walk into it.

Laura we want to be   shocked maybe a little bit in an incredible way  and sort of get us into another frame of mind.

Laura: I mean this is my hope  anyway from this report you know   yeah and you know people as you understand it and  read through it make sure that your legislators   and your local officials also understand it  these reports are exciting when they come out   and they drop out of the news almost immediately  so let's not let that happen here in New Mexico.

Gene: bless your heart for saying that absolutely.

all right folks Friday night seven o'clock channel   5.1 you'll see my colleague Laura Paskus do her  thing as well as myself in a with a good group   at the round table virtually of course uh  at seven o'clock as well so thank you again   Laura Paskus really appreciate it and folks  thank you for joining us again if you're not   here for the original noon hour do it next week  we try to do it every week and Wednesday sometimes   we're an hour off here or there depending  on schedule but you can rely on us to be   around midweek thanks again guys have a great  day stay cool thanks dean happy Friday night