>> Gene: HERE IS A LITTLE PALATE CLEANSER.

MICHELLE OTERO WAS A CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE POET LAUREATE  FROM 2018 THROUGH 2020.

IN 2021 HER DEBUT POETRY  COLLECTION WAS PUBLISHED, BOSQUE, THAT WAS CALLED.

AND THIS YEAR SHE RELEASED VESSELS, A MEMOIR OF  BORDERS.

THIS WEEK SHE AND OUR LAND'S  LAURA PASKUS TALK ABOUT WRITING AND ABOUT THE  CHALLENGES AND REWARDS OF EXPLORING FAMILY, TRAUMA AND  HISTORY.

>> Laura: HI, MICHELLE.

>> Otero: HEY, LAURA.

>> Laura: THANK YOU FOR  TALKING WITH ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WRITING.

SO YOU ARE SO WELL-KNOWN FOR YOUR POETRY, AND I LOVE YOUR  COLLECTION OF POEMS ABOUT THE BOSQUE, BUT YOU JUST  PUBLISHED A MEMOIR.

"VESSELS: A MEMOIR OF  BORDERS."

I'D LOVE TO HEAR HOW THE  PROCESS OF WRITING PROSE VERSUS POETRY IS DIFFERENT,  OR IS THE SAME FOR YOU.

>> Otero: THEY ALMOST FEEL  LIKE DIFFERENT DIALECTS OR ACCENTS.

LIKE, THEY ALMOST FEEL LIKE A FORM OF CODE SWITCHING.

SO, YOU KNOW, I SPEAK DIFFERENTLY HERE THAN I  WOULD IF I'M, YOU KNOW, THAN I WOULD IF I'M WITH MY  PARENTS, OR THAN I WOULD SPEAK IF I'M WITH MY FRIENDS  IN OAXACA, OR SOMETIMES EVEN IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD WHEN I  HAVE MY MOM VOICE.

AND IT'S FUNNY, BECAUSE WHEN  I FIRST CAME BACK TO NEW MEXICO IN 2006, HAVING  WRITTEN ALREADY, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT OF ME  AS A POET EVEN THOUGH I DON'T KNOW THAT UP TO THAT  POINT I HAD EVER WRITTEN A POEM ON PURPOSE.

BUT I READ A LOT OF POETRY AND I APPRECIATED POETRY,  AND I THINK THERE WAS A WAY THAT IT SHOWED UP IN MY  PROSE.

SO I THINK OF POETRY AS  BEING -- IT JUST REQUIRES MORE DISCIPLINE.

THERE ARE MORE CONSIDERATIONS, I GUESS I'LL  SAY.

LIKE VALERIE MARTINEZ TALKS  ABOUT HOW YOU JUST HAVE TO CONSIDER SO MUCH MORE,  BECAUSE IT'S NOT JUST -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S THE LINE  BREAK, YOUR UNIT OF MEASUREMENT IS SMALLER.

IT'S A SYLLABLE RATHER THAN A WORD OR A SENTENCE.

THERE'S HOW IT LOOKS ON THE PAGE.

THERE'S LIKE KIND OF STRIPPING AWAY AND STRIPPING  AWAY UNTIL -- YOU KNOW, IT'S MORE DENSE, I THINK, THAN  PROSE.

SO NOW I KIND OF LIKE THAT  I'M ABLE TO GO BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THE TWO, AND  I'M ALSO WRITING SOME SHORT STORIES, WHICH IS FUN,  BECAUSE I THINK I'M A LITTLE TIRED OF WRITING ABOUT  MYSELF.

I'M PRETTY FUNNY, BUT  THERE'S A LOT IN THIS BOOK THAT'S HARD TO READ.

AND IT ALL ENDS WELL.

LIKE, THERE'S A HAPPY  ENDING.

I'M HAPPY.

IT'S A MEMOIR, SO YOU KNOW THAT I TURNED OUT OKAY.

AND SO I'M ALSO JUST DISCOVERING A LOVE FOR JUST  BEING ABLE TO EXPAND, LIKE TO STRETCH OUT AND TO WRITE  ABOUT THINGS THAT AREN'T NECESSARILY ABOUT MY OWN  LIFE.

>> Laura: SO YOU ARE VERY  FUNNY, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF REALLY HARD STUFF IN THIS  MEMOIR AND HARD THINGS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE CLOSE TO YOU.

AND I THINK A LOT OF WRITERS, WE WANT TO KEEP  THINGS FROM OUR FAMILY, KEEP THINGS EVEN FROM, LIKE, OUR  CLOSEST LOVED ONES, BUT WE WANT TO OR NEED TO WRITE  ABOUT THEM, AND YOU DID THAT IN THIS BOOK.

AND I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW HOW YOU WERE ABLE TO DO THAT.

>> Otero: YEAH, THERE WERE HARD THINGS IN THE BOOK.

SOME OF THIS BOOK CAME OUT IN A CHAT BOOK, SO A SHORTER  COLLECTION CALLED "MALINCHE'S DAUGHTER" IN  2006, AND WHEN THAT CAME OUT, I SO DESPERATELY NEEDED  TO WRITE THE STORY AND SO WANTED IT TO COME OUT AND  DIDN'T WANT TO BE TOLD THAT I SHOULDN'T OR COULDN'T, AND  SO I TRIED IN VERY CLUMSY WAYS TO TALK TO MY FAMILY,  AND THAT DIDN'T GO WELL.

SO FINALLY IT CAME OUT AND  THEN IT WAS JUST LIKE THIS BOMB WENT OFF.

SO KNOWING THAT THIS BOOK WOULD PICK UP WHERE THAT  LEFT OFF, LIKE KIND OF INCORPORATE IT AND HAVE A  LONGER ARC, I FOR MANY YEARS WOULD LEAVE THIS PROJECT.

I WROTE A WHOLE POETRY COLLECTION.

YOU KNOW, I DID A LOT OF THINGS IN THE INTERIM.

BUT THIS BOOK WAS ALWAYS KIND OF THERE, YOU KNOW,  WAKING ME UP AT NIGHT, OR NAGGING ME, OR SOMETIMES  SAYING, LIKE, HEY, REMEMBER ME?

SO I JUST GOT SOME REALLY GOOD COACHING FROM A DEAR  FRIEND AND COLLEAGUE NAMED JOE WESTON, WHO DOES THIS  PRACTICE CALLED RESPECTFUL CONFRONTATION, AND HE'S  LIKE, OKAY, HERE'S WHAT YOU DO.

JUST PRINT OUT A DRAFT, HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH EACH  MEMBER OF YOUR FAMILY, SEND THEM THE DRAFT, AND THEN ASK  THEM TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT IT, WHICH FELT VERY SIMPLE.

IT WASN'T EASY, BUT THAT'S REALLY WHAT HAPPENED.

I THOUGHT ABOUT, LIKE, IF I WERE ON THE OTHER END, HOW  WOULD I WANT TO ENGAGE WITH THIS MATERIAL?

WHAT WOULD I WANT TO DO?

HOW WOULD I WANT TO BE CARED  FOR AND INVITED INTO THE PROCESS?

AND THEN I TRIED TO BE REALLY CLEAR ABOUT WHAT I  WANTED BACK.

SO NOT -- YOU KNOW, IT'S  GOING TO BE HARD FOR ME TO HEAR, CAN YOU TAKE THIS OUT,  OR CAN YOU CHANGE THAT.

BUT IF YOU CAN TELL ME YOUR EXPERIENCE OF READING IT AND  THE IMPACT THAT IT HAD ON YOU, THEN WE'RE FUNCTIONS OR  WE'RE COMMUNICATING ON A DEEPER LEVEL, AND I'M BETTER  ABLE TO RECEIVE IT.

AND REALLY, THAT'S WHAT I  DID WITH EACH OF MY SIBLINGS, WITH MY PARENTS.

YEAH, SO I DON'T KNOW THAT -- ACTUALLY, I CAN'T SPEAK  FOR EVERYONE.

I DON'T KNOW THAT ANYONE IS  THRILLED.

LIKE, YEAH, MICHELLE WROTE A  BOOK ABOUT REALLY HARD THINGS.

AND IT FEELS REALLY GOOD TO JUST NOT BE SITTING ON A  PILE OF SECRETS, OR TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A BOOK RELEASE  AND HAVE MY MOTHER THERE AND TO HAVE THE NEXT GENERATION  OF MY FAMILY.

I HAD A NEPHEW AND HIS  FAMILY ATTEND.

AND TO THINK ABOUT  INHERITANCE AND ALSO WHAT I'M PASSING ON, AND MAYBE IF  I CAN MAKE THE LOAD A LITTLE LIGHTER FOR THE NEXT  GENERATION, THEN THAT'S -- I MEAN, WHAT A HUGE GIFT.

>> Laura: YEAH, THANK YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT THAT.

I LOVE THE WHOLE IDEA OF RESPECTFUL CONFRONTATION AND  HOW WE CAN DO THAT, AND YOUR BOOK RELEASE, WHICH I  ATTENDED IN ALBUQUERQUE, WAS SUCH A BEAUTIFUL AND JOYOUS  CELEBRATION.

AND IT REALLY WAS.

YOU KNOW, TO SEE YOUR FAMILY THERE AND TO SEE YOU LIFTED  UP FOR ALL THAT YOU DO AND ALL YOU'VE WRITTEN WAS A  BEAUTIFUL THING TO EXPERIENCE.

SO THANK YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT THAT.

>> Otero: THANK YOU.

>> Laura: AS WE'RE TALKING,  THIS IS A MEMOIR ROOTED IN YOUR OWN EXPERIENCES.

YOU ALSO CREATE COMPOSITE CHARACTERS, AND YOU EXPLORE  AZTEC GODS AND GODDESSES AS PART OF THAT.

HOW DOES ALL OF THAT HELP TELL A MORE COMPLETE OR A  WHOLE STORY?

>> Otero: SO I THINK MY  DOORWAY INTO THESE FIGURES AND, LIKE, AZTEC OR MEXICA  MYTHOLOGY WAS THROUGH THIS FIGURE OF LA MALINCHE.

SHE WAS THE -- SHE BECAME THE INTERPRETER FOR THE  SPANIARDS IN THE 1500s WHEN THEY INVADED WHAT IS  NOW MEXICO.

SO AT THE TIME, SHE SPOKE  NAHUATL, AND THEN SHE SPOKE ANOTHER MAYAN LANGUAGE, AND  WAS ABLE TO INTERPRET -- SHE SPOKE NAHUATL AND ANOTHER  MAYAN LANGUAGE AND WAS ABLE TO INTERPRET BETWEEN THOSE  TWO, BUT SHE LEARNED SPANISH AND THEN JUST BECAME THE  DIRECT INTERPRETER.

SO I THINK SHE GETS A REALLY  BAD RAP BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE LOOK AT HER AS A  TRAITOR.

HERE'S AN INDIGENOUS WOMAN  WHO HELPED THE SPANIARDS.

SYMBOLICALLY, SHE'S ALSO THE  MOTHER OF MESTIZAJE, SO THE MOTHER OF THIS GROUP OF  PEOPLE, OF WHICH I'M A PART, A MIX OF SPANISH AND  INDIGENOUS ANCESTRY.

SO I FEEL A REAL -- I DON'T  KNOW IF WE'RE BLOOD RELATED.

I THINK I WRITE THAT IN THE  INTRODUCTION.

BUT I FEEL A REAL, JUST A  REAL CONNECTION TO HER.

AND THEN I STARTED LOOKING  BACK, WHEN I STARTED WRITING THIS BOOK, AND THEN BEFORE  WHEN I STARTED WRITING "MALINCHE'S DAUGHTER," I  KEPT WANTING TO GO BACK IN TIME TO FIND A TIME WHEN  WOMEN WEREN'T HARMED, AND I THOUGHT, WELL, MAYBE IT'S IN  AZTEC MYTHOLOGY, MAYBE IT'S IN SOME OF THESE OTHER  THINGS.

AND THEN I FOUND THE STORY  OF COYOLXAUHQUI, THE MOON GODDESS, AND I THOUGHT, OH,  A MOON GODDESS, THAT'S SO BEAUTIFUL.

AND THEN HER STORY SO VIOLENT.

HER BROTHER, THE GOD OF WAR, DECAPITATES HER AND THROWS  HER HEAD INTO THE SKY, AND THAT'S HOW SHE BECOMES THE  MOON.

AND SO I THINK THE LINK BACK  TO THAT WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS IDEA OF BROKENNESS, AND  EVEN IF THAT'S OUR INHERITANCE, LIKE, WHAT'S  OUR WORK IN THIS LIFE.

AND SO GLORIA ANZALDÚA,  FORTUNATELY, WROTE THIS REALLY AMAZING PIECE ABOUT  THE COYOLXAUHQUI IMPERATIVE AND HOW OUR JOB IN THIS LIFE  IS TO -- YOU KNOW, EVEN IF WE COME IN BROKEN OR WE'RE  BROKEN ALONG THE WAY, OUR WORK IS TO PUT OURSELVES  BACK TOGETHER.

SO THAT REALLY, AGAIN MUCH  LIKE WITH LA MALINCHE, I JUST REALLY FELT A  CONNECTION TO COYOLXAUHQUI AND THAT IDEA THAT THAT  BROKENNESS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A LIFE SENTENCE, THAT  THERE IS A WAY TO, LIKE, REMEMBER, AND IT'S IN  WRITING OUR MEMORIES THAT WE, LIKE, PUT OURSELVES BACK  TOGETHER.

>> Laura: THANK YOU,  MICHELLE.

THANKS FOR TALKING WITH ME,  AND THANK YOU FOR ALL THE WORK AND THE WRITING THAT  YOU DO.

>> Otero: YOU'RE WELCOME.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.