>> Laura: MIKE HAMMAN, WELCOME  TO NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Hamman: THANK YOU, LAURA.

VERY NICE TO SEE YOU.

>> Laura: I AM GOING TO DIVE  RIGHT IN.

FORECASTS ARE SHOWING THAT WE  MAY BE LOOKING AT A THIRD LA NINA IN A ROW.

HOW WORRIED SHOULD NEW MEXICANS BE ABOUT WATER RIGHT  NOW?

>> Hamman: THERE ARE CERTAIN  BASINS THAT ARE DOING REASONABLY WELL NEAR THE  NORMAL SNOW PACK ENVIRONMENT OF THE NORTH.

YOU HAVE THE CHAMA BASIN AND THE UPPER COLORADO THAT IS  LOOKING PRETTY GOOD.

AS YOU GET FARTHER SOUTH IT  DECLINES INTO THE 80'S, 70'S, 60% DEPENDING HOW FAR SOUTH  YOU GO BUT IT IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER CHALLENGING YEAR, NO  DOUBT ABOUT IT.

EVEN WHEN WE HAD REASONABLE  NORMAL PRECIPITATION IN PREVIOUS YEARS, FOR WHATEVER  REASON, THE RUNOFF HASN'T PRODUCED LIKE IT NORMALLY DOES  AND THAT SEEMS TO BE TRUE ALSO IN THE COLORADO RIVER BASIN  WHERE WE BENEFIT FROM THE SAN JUAN CHAMA PROJECT AND ALSO  THE SAN JUAN BASIN ITSELF HAS A LOT OF WATER USERS THAT RELY  ON THAT SUPPLY ON THAT SIDE OF THE BASIN.

SO, THE SOUTHWEST IS DEFINITELY SHIFTING INTO MORE  OF A POST CLIMATE CHANGE SORT OF WORLD FROM A WATER  PERSPECTIVE.

>> Laura: LOOKING AT THE RIO  GRANDE SPECIFICALLY, EL VADO IS EMPTY OR EMPTYISH FOR  CONSTRUCTION REASONS.

WE LOOK AT ELEPHANT BUTTE AT  ABOUT 11% CAPACITY RIGHT NOW.

HOW MUCH SLACK IS THERE IN THE  SYSTEM?

>> Hamman: WHEN YOU REFER TO  SLACK IN TERMS OF LIKE MEETING DEMANDS?

THERE IS LIKELY TO BE SOME SHORTAGES.

WE HAVE BEEN EXPERIENCING SHORTAGES IN THE RIO GRANDE  PROJECT FROM ELEPHANT BUTTE FOR SOME TIME AND WE ALSO HAD  EXPERIENCED SHORTAGES FROM THE RIO GRANDE BASIN LATE IN THE  SUMMER LAST YEAR.

IF IT WASN'T FOR THE MONSOONS,  FARMERS WOULD HAVE SUFFERED IN THE MIDDLE VALLEY FOR SURE.

THERE HAS ALSO BEEN SHORTAGES ON THE SAN JUAN CHAMA PROJECT,  MUNICIPAL AND AGRICULTURAL CONTRACTORS FROM THAT PROJECT  OCCURRING ON AND OFF FOR THE LAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS.

SO, WE ARE CERTAINLY IN -- THEY ARE CALLING IT A MEGA  DROUGHT.

THAT IS KIND OF HARD TO DEFINE  THAT TERM, BUT IT IS PERSISTENT FOR SURE.

AND THEN IF YOU HAVE KIND OF AVERAGE RISING TEMPERATURES,  WHAT OCCURS IN THAT SITUATION  IS YOU HAVE MORE DEPLETIONS ASSOCIATED WITH EVERY DEGREE  AND EVERY TEMPERATURE RISE REQUIRES MORE EXPIRATION BY  PLANTS AND THE ENVIRONMENT IN GENERAL AND EVAPORATION FROM  LAKES AND STREAMS SO YOU'RE HAVING THIS SITUATION WHERE  AVERAGE TEMPERATURES CLIMBING CREATES MORE DEPLETIONS.

EVEN  IF YOU HAD THE SAME WATER SUPPLY, YOU'RE STILL SEEING  LESS AVAILABILITY.

>> Laura: WE HAVE SEEN  PROBLEMS IN THE LOWER RIO GRANDE PLAY OUT IN THIS BATTLE  BETWEEN STATES AND ALSO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT IS NOW  IN THE U.S. SUPREME COURT IN LITIGATION.

LOOKING TOWARDS THE MIDDLE RIO GRANDE, ARE WE WITHIN OUR  BUDGET, WITHIN OUR WATER RIGHTS OR COULD WE SEE  SOMETHING SIMILAR PLAY OUT IN THE FUTURE IN THE MIDDLE RIO  GRANDE?

>> Hamman: SINCE THE RUNOFF OF  2019, WE HAVE EXPERIENCED AN UNDER-DELIVERY TO THE ELEPHANT  BUTTE OR RIO GRANDE PROJECT, AS WE CALL IT.

AS A RESULT OF THE INDEX GAUGE WE HAVE TO DELIVER A CERTAIN  QUANTITY OF WATER AND THE IRONY OF A VERY HIGH RUNOFF IS  THAT MEANS WE HAVE TO DELIVER A HIGH AMOUNT.

AND THAT YEAR WE UNDER DELIVERED FOR THE FIRST  TIME -- WELL, ON AVERAGE CONSISTENTLY UNDER DELIVERED  SINCE 2019.

SO, WE FIND OURSELVES IN A  COMPACT DEBIT OF ABOUT 120 SOME ODD THOUSAND ACRE FEET,  WHICH WE ARE TAKING STEPS TO ADDRESS WITH A PROGRAM.

THE LEGISLATURE AGREED TO A DROUGHT MITIGATION FUND THAT  WILL ALLOW US TO TRY TO CATCH BACK UP AND MAKE OUR  DELIVERIES TO ELEPHANT BUTTE IN ORDER TO NOT GET INTO A  COMPACT VIOLATION SITUATION AT 200,000 ACRE FEET.

SO, THAT IS A TOP PRIORITY FOR ME AND THE STATE THIS YEAR IS  TO TRY TO MAKE SOME PROGRESS IN MAKING NOT ONLY THIS YEAR'S  DELIVERY BUT CHIP AWAY AT THAT DEBIT.

AND EL VADO IS BEING RECONSTRUCTED, AS YOU  MENTIONED, SO WE ARE HOPEFUL THAT WE CHIP AWAY AT THAT  DEBIT AND THEN GET EL VADO BACK IN PLACE FOR FULL USE AND  THEN WE'LL BE SOMEWHERE NEAR WHERE WE COULD OPERATE ON A  NORMAL CYCLE, I THINK.

>> Laura: NEW MEXICO IS  WRANGLING RIGHT NOW WITH WHAT TO DO ABOUT FOUR BILLION  DOLLARS IN FEDERAL INFRASTRUCTURE MONEY AND WE  HAD INFRASTRUCTURE ADVISOR MARTIN CHAVEZ ON THE SHOW  RECENTLY TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THE PRIORITIES.

I AM CURIOUS WHAT SPECIFIC PROJECTS WILL YOUR OFFICE BE  PUSHING FOR OUR ADVOCATING FOR OR LAUNCHING WHEN IT COMES  SPECIFICALLY TO WATER?

>> Hamman: THERE IS A STRONG  UNDERSTANDING THAT RURAL NEW MEXICO HAS BEEN LEFT BEHIND ON  A LOT OF THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS.

WE ARE NOT SPECIFICALLY INVOLVED IN COMMUNITY WATER  INFRASTRUCTURE AND WASTEWATER.

THAT IS MORE OF A NEW MEXICO  ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT GROUP UNDER THEIR CONSTRUCTION  BUREAU AND THEIR STATE REVOLVING FUND, BUT THERE IS A  TREMENDOUS NEED FOR ALL THE AGENCIES WITH THE STATE  ENGINEER'S OFFICE, NMED, ALSO THE NEW MEXICO FINANCE  AUTHORITY AND THE WATER TRUST BOARD PROCESS TO REALLY REVIEW  WHAT WE HAVE DONE IN THE PAST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE  PRIORITIZE ALLOWING FOR THOSE RURAL COMMUNITIES THAT DON'T  HAVE THE CAPACITY TO APPLY FOR GRANTS, TO IMPLEMENT THEM, TO  EVEN MANAGE THE CONSTRUCTION.

WE WANT TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO  TAKE FULL ADVANTAGE OF THIS FUNDING BOTH AT THE STATE AND  FEDERAL LEVELS IN ORDER FOR RURAL NEW MEXICO TO CATCH UP  AND GET THEIR SYSTEMS IN ORDER.

AND ON OUR END, WE ARE GOING TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING  SURE THEY HAVE ADEQUATE WATER RIGHTS AND ALL OF THAT STUFF  FOR THEIR 40-YEAR WATER OUTLOOK LIKE ALL OTHER  COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE CAPACITY OR ARE ABLE TO DO, SO WE WANT  TO REVERSE THAT TREND.

>> Laura: WHEN PEOPLE TALK  ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE AND WATER, DAMS OFTEN COME UP AS  THERE IS UNSAFE DAMS  NATIONWIDE.

IS THAT REALLY A PROBLEM HERE  IN NEW MEXICO?

>> Hamman: IT CERTAINLY IS.

YES, WE HAVE LOTS OF PRIVATE AND PUBLIC DAMS THAT ARE AGED  OUT.

SOME OF THEM ARE FULL OF  SEDIMENT.

THEY HAVE UNDERSIZED  SPILLWAYS.

WE HAVE IDENTIFIED THOSE IN  OUR DAM SAFETY OFFICE WHICH WE ARE REGULATORS ON DAM SAFETY  ASPECTS AND WE HAVE NOTIFIED DAM OWNERS OF DEFICIENCIES  THAT NEED TO BE CORRECTED.

BUT, THERE ARE FUNDS AVAILABLE  AND WE ARE HOPING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY THAT THE REGULATORY  AGENCY CAN HELP MOVE SOME OF THESE COMMUNITIES TOWARDS  FIXING THEIR PROBLEMS.

>> Laura: ONE OF KIND OF  SOMETHING BACK TO THE SESSION, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAME UP  DURING THE SESSION THIS YEAR WAS CONVERSATIONS AROUND  WHETHER THE STATE'S TOP WATER BOSS, YOU, WHETHER THAT SHOULD  HAVE A REQUIREMENT THAT YOU'RE A REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL  ENGINEER.

I WAS WONDERING, CAN YOU  EXPLAIN WHY THE STATE'S TOP WATER OFFICIAL SHOULD BE A  REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER VERSUS HYDROLOGIST OR  ATTORNEY?

>> Hamman: CERTAINLY, AS THE  HISTORY HAS EVOLVED, YOU KNOW, THE ORIGINAL TERRITORIAL  ENGINEER WAS ESTABLISHED PRE-1907.

THAT KIND OF SET THE PRIORITY ADMINISTRATION RULES UP.

AND IN THIS STATE FOR GOOD OR FOR BAD, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD  ARGUE THAT IN MANY DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS BUT THAT IS THE  PROCESS THAT THE STATE CHOSE TO MOVE FORWARD ON AND THEY  ESTABLISHED AN EXTENSIVE SUITE OF REGULATIONS AND STATUTES,  SOME 50 OF THEM, THAT I KNOW OF, ACTUALLY CITE THE  AUTHORITY OF THE STATE ENGINEER TO CARRY OUT THE LAWS  AND THE ADMINISTRATION OF WATER IN NEW MEXICO.

SO, THERE COULD BE SOME -- YOU KNOW, TO DO IT IN A QUICK AND  I WOULD CALL IT UNSTUDIED MANNER, WOULD NOT BE  APPROPRIATE BECAUSE THERE WOULD BE A LOT OF POSSIBLE  UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

I AM NOT NECESSARILY SAYING IT  SHOULDN'T BE DONE BUT WE'RE TRYING TO SET UP A PROCESS  WHERE IT COULD BE EVALUATED IN AN OPEN FORUM WITH PEOPLE FROM  AROUND THE STATE WHERE THE GOVERNOR'S GOING TO BE ISSUING  AN EXECUTIVE ORDER TO ESTABLISH A WATER POLICY AND  INFRASTRUCTURE TASKFORCE.

THAT SHOULD BE ANNOUNCED SOON.

AND IN THAT VEIN WE'LL HAVE A GROUP OF FOLKS THAT WILL  EVALUATE THOSE TYPES OF POLICIES AND MAKE  RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE INTERIM COMMITTEE PROCESS AND TO THE  GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AND ALSO TO INCLUDE RECOMMENDATIONS IN THE  50-YEAR WATER PLAN THAT IS DUE TO BE RELEASED IN JULY.

SO, WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK AHEAD OF US HERE IN THE NEXT  SEVERAL MONTHS BUT WE CERTAINLY SEE THAT AS AN  AVENUE TO ADDRESS THE ORGANIZATION OF THE STATE  ENGINEER'S OFFICE AND WHETHER SOME OTHER MODEL LIKE WHAT IS  DONE IN OTHER STATES MIGHT FIT THE BILL BETTER.

BUT WE DO NEED TO PLAN FOR THE 21ST CENTURY NEEDS BECAUSE WE  HAVE 20TH CENTURY SORT OF INFRASTRUCTURE AND POLICIES  AND LAWS THAT ARE GUIDING US INTO THE FUTURE AND IT IS TIME  TO LOOK AT THAT.

>> Laura: SO, OVER THE YEARS  YOU AND I HAVE HAD A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS.

YOU WERE WITH THE BUREAU OF RECLAMATION FOR MANY YEARS AND  THEN THE MIDDLE RIO GRANDE CONSERVANCY DISTRICT AND I  RECALL, LIKE, THROUGH MY REPORTING, YOU WERE ONE OF THE  FIRST REALLY SORT OF TOP WATER OFFICIALS IN NEW MEXICO TO  TALK OPENLY AND FORTHRIGHTLY ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE.

AND I AM CURIOUS, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THE COURSE OF YOUR  CAREER IN THESE VARIOUS WATER MANAGEMENT CAPACITIES, YOU  KNOW, WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST CHANGES THAT YOU HAVE SEEN AND  HAD TO GRAPPLE WITH AS A WATER MANAGER?

>> Hamman: THE REALIZATION, OF COURSE, OF THE CHANGING WATER  SUPPLY SITUATION HAS BEEN KNOWN TO FOLKS THAT PAY  ATTENTION TO IT ON A ROUTINE BASIS.

I THINK THE PUBLIC IS REALLY, YOU KNOW, JUST NOW REALLY  FULLY UNDERSTANDING WHAT WE ARE UP AGAINST AND THAT HAS  BEEN A CHALLENGE TO REALLY GET FOLKS TO UNDERSTAND THAT, YES,  THERE ARE HYDROLOGIC REALITIES AND THINGS THAT WE NEED TO  KEEP IN MIND AS WE PLAN VARIOUS PROJECTS AND VARIOUS  RESPONSES TO ENDANGERED SPECIES ACTS AND VARIOUS  THINGS LIKE THAT TO TRY TO KEEP THINGS IN BALANCE, BUT TO  ME THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE HAS BEEN THE FACT THAT THERE IS A  WHOLE NEW SUITE OF DEMANDS ON THE SYSTEM.

THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THERE, IN TERMS OF THE ENVIRONMENT,  WATERSHED HEALTH AND THE MAINTENANCE OF FLORA AND FAUNA  WITH JUST THE RIPARIAN ENVIRONMENT AND ALL THE  NECESSARY THINGS TO HAVE A HEALTHY ECOSYSTEM, BUT IT IS  MAINTAINING THAT BALANCE IN A DECLINING WATER SUPPLY  SITUATION, WHILE KEEPING THE TRADITIONS AND CULTURES OF NEW  MEXICO THAT IS JUST SO SPECIAL COMPARED TO ANYWHERE ELSE IN  THE COUNTRY, INTACT BECAUSE OF THE WAY WE HAVE EVOLVED AS  COMMUNITIES WITH THE ACEQUIA COMMUNITIES AND OUR TRIBAL AND  PUEBLO CULTURES KIND OF COMMINGLING OVER THE CENTURIES  INTO WHAT WE HAVE TODAY, WHICH IS A VERY MODERN ROBUST KIND  OF SOCIOECONOMIC STRUCTURE THAT STILL NEEDS TO BE  SUPPORTED WITH THE BASICS LIKE WATER AND FOOD SECURITY AND  SHELTER.

EVERYBODY NEEDS THAT, RIGHT?

SO, THAT, BALANCED WITH THE GROWING DEMANDS AND MEETING  FEDERAL LAWS UNDER THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT AND  MAKING SURE THAT WE STAY OUT OF COURT, YOU KNOW, YOU SPEND  A LOT OF MONEY ON LITIGATION, AND WE COULD BE USING IT FOR  GOOD PROJECTS AND THINGS TO HELP ADVANCE OUR WATER SUPPLY  NEEDS, IS THE MAIN CHALLENGE RIGHT NOW.

FOR SURE.

>> Laura: SO KIND OF FINAL  WORDS, WHEN IT COMES TO WATER, WHAT MISTAKES CAN WE JUST NOT  AFFORD TO MAKE RIGHT NOW?

>> Hamman:   UNDERESTIMATING THE POTENTIAL FOR SERIOUS DROUGHT.

WE NEED TO PLAN FOR THAT AND WE NEED TO BE OUT AHEAD OF IT  AS MUCH AS WE POSSIBLY CAN.

WE NEED TO REVIEW OUR POLICIES  AND OUR INFRASTRUCTURE PROCEDURES AND OPERATING PLANS  TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE ENOUGH FLEXIBILITY IN THE  SYSTEM TO ADAPT QUICKLY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I JUST GOT  OFF A CALL ON COLORADO RIVER OPERATION.

WHAT IF LAKE POWELL DROPS BELOW THE POWER POOL?

THAT COULD HAVE A TREMENDOUS IMPACT ON THE RENEWABLE ENERGY  THAT WE ARE USING IN THE SOUTHWEST.

WHILE WE ARE SIMULTANEOUSLY DECOMMISSIONING COAL FIRED  POWER PLANTS, RIGHT?

SO, THERE COULD BE SOME REAL  SERIOUS PROBLEMS IF WE DON'T PLAN ACCORDINGLY AND THAT IS  ONE OF THE TOP JOBS THAT THE INTERSTATE STREAM COMMISSION  AND OUR OFFICE IS LOOKING TO IMPLEMENT.

>> Laura: MIKE HAMMAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME.

>> Hall: THANK YOU LAURA.

ALWAYS A PLEASURE.