Funding for New Mexico in Focus is provided by: Viewers Like You >> Nash: This week on New Mexico in Focus, we question the two Democratic candidates for governor.

Digging into where their values, plans and priorities differ.

>> Haaland: I think we can change people█s lives, but we need to start early.

>> Bregman: All these issues need to be -- handled by experts who want to see things get done, and that's what I'm all about.

>> Nash: And we catch up with the final Republican candidate in that primary race, former longtime Rio Rancho Mayor Greg Hull.

New Mexico in Focus starts now.

Thanks for joining us this week, I'm Nash Jones.

Early voting in this year's Democratic and Republican primary elections kicked off at county clerk's offices last week, and it's set to expand to several more sites tomorrow, Saturday, May 16th, when things will really get cookin█.

As of taping, 23,000 plus New Mexicans have cast a ballot so far.

Of those, the majority, more than 14,000 were registered Democrats.

Tonight we meet that party's contenders to succeed, termed out Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham.

As the highest profile race in this election.

You are likely already familiar with who's running.

Former Interior Department Secretary and Congresswoman, Deb Haaland and Bernalillo County District Attorney Sam Bregman.

You may have even gotten to know them better by watching the debate here on PBS last week.

But tonight, as I sit with each of them for one on one interviews, I hope that you'll gain a deeper understanding of who they are and where they fall on some of the biggest issues facing New Mexico, from expanding industries to child well-being, public safety, and preserving our natural resources.

Last week, we brought you interviews with two of the three Republicans vying to lead this state.

After some schedule wrangling, this week, we are pleased to have the final candidate in that race, and the frontrunner, according to recent polls.

Stay with us for when politics correspondent Gwyneth Doland asks Greg Hull about his plans for New Mexico, later this hour, and a reminder that if you are an independent or unaffiliated voter this year, you get to choose which of these two primary races you'd like to vote in without changing your registration.

With that, let's kick things off with the frontrunner in the Democratic race for governor.

>> Nash: Secretary Haaland, thanks so much for taking the time.

>> Haaland: Thanks for having me >> Nash: So you have probably the highest name recognition in this campaign.

One of the most high stakes campaigns in this election cycle.

I imagine a lot of our viewers are familiar with you, but I would like to take a chance for you, give you a chance to introduce yourself, talking about, both your professional and your personal background and how it would inform your work as governor.

>> Haaland: Sure, Thank you so much.

So I was raised in a military family.

My dad was a marine, a career marine.

He fought in Vietnam.

He was a combat marine.

My mom, they met when my mom was in the Navy.

Although she, her career was at the Bureau of Indian Affairs in the Education Department, they didn't have a BIE yet.

She worked for the BIA for 25 years.

I graduated from Highland High School, I graduated from UNM from UNM School of Law, and in 2014 I ran for lieutenant governor.

In 2015, I ran for state chair of the Democratic Party of New Mexico.

And during that time is when there was an announcement.

Governor Lujan Grisham announced that she would be running for governor.

And so it would leave that the congressional seat vacant.

And so I decided to run for that seat.

We'd never had a Native American woman in Congress.

And as it turned out, in 2018, two of us were elected.

So that was great.

And then, the end of my, first term as chair, as I'm sorry, as congresswoman.

President Biden nominated me to serve in the Department of the interior.

And so I served there for four years, 70,000 person career staff with $18 billion annual budget.

And so we worked very hard, moved our clean energy transition forward for our country, took two animals, two species off the endangered species list.

You know, 50 solar projects in the desert, Desert Southwest, millions of acres of land into protected public lands.

And so, I feel that my time there was very well spent and we accomplished a tremendous amount.

And I feel that executive experience absolutely helps me to know, you know, how to run a state government.

Additionally, I when I was in Congress, I got two bill.

Actually, I got five bills passed and signed into law.

Two of those bills I implemented as Secretary of the interior.

So I feel like things went full circle for me when I was there.

>> Nash: And so you've touted your time in Washington is giving you a leg up over your competitor Sam Bregman.

Not only is an executive, but also in holding the Trump administration and President Trump himself accountable.

The one time in the ‘Dukes Up█ debate that Bregman pushed back on something you said is when he said he's, quote, “not aware of any holding Mr.

Trump's feet to the fire on your part.” Can you give a specific example of how you've done that?

>> Haaland: Yes, yes.

Well, I mean, when Covid started happening in our country, the Trump administration wanted to shortchange New Mexicans in tribal communities with health care dollars to fight the pandemic.

Right at that point, no one knew how devastating it would be across our entire world.

But we, the Democrats in the House, took it very seriously, and we fought the administration to allocate enough money for tribes, for communities across New Mexico.

And so it's because of us.

And the bill that I co-sponsored that we were able to do that, that, you know, health care became a priority for our state and for our tribes here.

>> Nash: And then, as Interior Secretary, you instated or proposed several protections for public lands in New Mexico and in some cases sacred lands here across the state.

As governor, how would you balance preserving New Mexico's natural resources with tapping them as an economic driver?

>> Haaland: There are places to drill a mine.

There are places not to drill an mine.

Right?

Chaco isn't one of those places.

And so we recognize I mean, look, when I was secretary of the interior, we really consolidated the footprint of oil and gas, you know, consolidated it.

And yet we still were producing oil and gas.

We're still moving those permits forward.

So it's really ensuring that we are making our steps count, right?

that we're not just opening up every inch of our state to the industry, but thinking deeply about where does this make sense and where does it not make sense, basically.

>> Nash: And New Mexico does have some of the strictest emission standards in the country.

But under Lujan Grisham, the environment department has struggled to keep up with enforcement.

How under your governorship would you support enforcement of these strict standards?

So they're not just, you know, in the books, but actually being followed?

>> Haaland: Absolutely.

Well, it's you know, we might need to hire some more folks, make sure that these people are trained and that they understand the laws and the regulations.

Just staffing up in the best way possible, I think will really make a difference in how we're managing that >> Nash: With the oil and gas industry contributing so much to the state's revenue, do you imagine there'll be some pushback on that if the money that's being spent on staffing the environment department, for instance, is oil and gas revenue money.

>> Haaland: Right.

So first of all, I mean, I don't think anyone would argue that our children deserve clean air, clean land, clean water.

Right?

Our children deserve all of those things.

And so those would be my top priorities, right?

Making sure our kids have what they need to thrive.

I don't see any you know, industry executive arguing with that fact.

So I think they are working hard also to, you know, make their footprint smaller to operate, you know, in a cleaner way.

Technology has really blossomed for so many industries over the last, say, 5 to 10 years.

And it's up to us to make sure that we're implementing those technologies in the furtherance of how industry operates in the state.

We need sustainable industry here.

The climate crisis is, you know, ready to swallow us whole.

We need to make sure that we are protecting our environment for future generations.

>> Nash: Speaking of industry in the state, let's talk about data centers.

They're popping up across the state.

These things need a lot of water.

They need a lot of power.

When Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham announced one such center, the Project Jupiter in southern New Mexico, she touted it as a $5 billion partnership that would provide 1000 jobs and said, quote, “New Mexico is investing in its economy to build a more prosperous tomorrow.” You've said that you don't believe that data centers have our community's best interest at heart.

How would you approach that industry differently than Lujan Grisham has?

>> Haaland: So I would just say, and first of all, so grateful for all the things our governor has done for our state, right?

We're having a fight over universal child care right now.

That would have saved my, that would have saved my life when I was raising my kid as a single mom.

But look, as I said, any industry that comes to New Mexico needs to be sustainable.

We have a climate crisis on our hands.

There's water shortages.

We have we're an agricultural state on top of that, we need to make sure that our farmers can get the water that they need.

And so how do we ensure that any industry, including data centers, are operating sustainably?

Right?

Clean energy, you know, the least amount of water possible.

We just have to make sure we're conserving.

And so it's putting guardrails on the industry, ensuring that everybody knows and understands what those guardrails are.

But we just have to, we have to prepare for the future.

And right now, as I said, climate change is the real enemy of our water, our precious natural resources, which is water.

>> Nash: Well, and speaking of water, Luan Grisham advocated to clean and reuse produced water, that's oil and gas or fracking wastewater to help grow not only digital industry like this, but manufacturing in the state.

What, if anything, would need to happen for you to feel comfortable with the state reusing produced water?

>> Haaland: Sure.

Well, there needs, the science needs to be made whole on that.

Right?!

We need to know exactly what is in that water and.

Is it okay to use for a stated purpose.

And so, but I think that it's up to the people, the industry that's producing that produced water.

It's up to them to prove to us that it's safe to use.

Right?

>> Nash: Is there anything you could do to put some pressure on that effort?

>> Haaland: I think we can ask the legislature to put some funding toward, you know, the research and ensuring that we have the scientists to make sure that that water is safe and that the industry is, is actually the ones who are proving to us that it is safe.

>> Nash: I'm moving on to another industry.

The massive private equity firm Blackstone is trying to buy PNM.

You haven't imposed that acquisition outright, but you have said that if it went through, you would keep a close eye on that agreement.

As governor, what specific guardrails would you implement and how would you enforce them?

>> Haaland: So whatever the promises are that this company is made to the communities in New Mexico, we just need to hold their feet to the fire.

Right?

>> Nash: What does that look like?

How do you do that?

>> Haaland: So have they promise lower rates?

Then they need to follow through with that.

Have they promised community investment, moving our clean energy transition forward?

because we've promised ourselves here in New Mexico that we want zero emissions by 2050.

Right?

And so, all of those things, we just need to make sure that they're following through on those.

In the meantime, I know that a lot of people are speaking out there.

They're speaking their mind.

It's the PRC's, you know.

>> Nash: The Public Regulation Commission?

>> Haaland: Yes, the Public Regulation Commission has the job of vetting that.

Company and, you know, saying yes or no.

And so I just think everyone should make their voices heard.

>> Nash: If you were on the fourth floor of the roundhouse and found that Blackstone was falling short of what they had promised the community, what tools are available to you to follow through on, on pushing back against that and holding them to account?

>> Haaland: Well, I mean, we you know, I don't want to say that I would, you know, sue a company outright or immediately, but, you know, I would, let's have a conversation and find a way to get you back on track and ensure that you were living up to the obligations that you promised New Mexicans.

Right?

Communities want to be able to rely on promises that are made to our state, and too often, private equity has fallen very short.

We're the state with the most private equity firms operating here.

And we've seen that they have been terrible for our health care system.

And so this, you know, this can't be another private equity situation that disappoints New Mexicans, that makes us less safe, that doesn't move forward with the things that we want to, that we want to accomplish as New Mexicans.

>> Nash: Your competitor, Sam Bregman, is the Bernalillo County district attorney, and he's positioned himself in some ways as kind of the law and order candidate or the tough on crime candidate in this race.

How does your plan to combat crime differ from Mr.

Bregman, and why should voters who consider public safety their number one issue, elect you instead?

>> Haaland: Exactly.

My plan differs in the fact that I want to get to the root causes of crime.

I don't want a revolving door.

I don't want people just in and out, in and out, in and out of jail.

We need to help people change their lives.

It's my belief that the root causes of crime start long before somebody commits their first crime.

Right?

We have juveniles who are just on the wrong track.

And, you know, think about the ways we can help families to have stronger family unit, help New Mexicans to have a raise.

Some parents have to work, you know, three and four jobs just to make ends meet when they should be spending more time with their families.

I think we can foster more, you know, more of a family unit that would be beneficial to children.

Our public school system, you know, so many children don't read early enough.

And if they can read early enough, that opens up an entire educational journey for them.

I think we can change people's lives, but we need to start early, right?

It's the the terrible fentanyl problem that we're experiencing in New Mexico.

Also, you know, a lot of folks, they commit crimes because of substance use.

We need to get those illegal drugs off of our streets.

So law enforcement needs the tools to get violent criminals, to get illegal drugs off our streets.

And we just need to get to the root causes of crime.

>> Nash: And you bring up child well-being being one of those.

Attorney General Raul Torrez recently dropped a damning report about the children, Youth and Families Department outlining numerous systemic failures, including the deaths of 14 children in its care.

The Lujan Grisham has repeatedly defended CYFD.

How would you address the role of this long troubled agency and how it's supposed to show up for the kids in its care?

>> Haaland: Right, So a heartbreaking, yes, a heartbreaking situation.

And we, you know, CYFD really needs to change from the ground up.

There are, you know, there is a moral issue.

There's a lot of state employees who have spent their careers there.

They deserve to be respected.

And so I have experience with that.

Right?

I went into the Department of the interior and it had been decimated by Donald Trump.

And so I know how to rebuild a department.

And I would like to go to the commission model to ensure consistency for the children.

And so that's one thing that will change.

We need to immediately work on increasing the number of foster parents across New Mexico so that children have a safe place to go until, you know, they can go back home or find a new home.

We need to ensure that that this is a place where children are safe.

>> Nash: Okay, and a judge last year found the state remains out of compliance with the Yazzie Martinez educational equity ruling.

That's from back in 2018.

And the public education department has remained out of compliance.

They did the agency did create a plan to change that last fall.

But the plaintiffs in the case don't like it.

They've asked for a rewrite.

If you're governor, how will New Mexico finally get into compliance with this now nearly decade old ruling?

>> Haaland: Absolutely.

So, as I often say, every child in New Mexico, every disabled child every Native American, every Hispanic, every English as a second language child, every single child deserves a quality public education in our state.

And so I know that the plaintiffs were not they didn't agree with the plan.

Then let's get back to the table and talk about a plan that we can make work for our state.

And I think that can be done.

I did that many times as secretary of the interior.

You know, you have the power of convening.

So let's convene.

Let's talk about how we can ensure that there is a plan that will work, that will ensure that every child has that quality of public education.

>> Nash: Deb Haaland, thanks so much for being here.

>> Haaland: Thank you.

>> Hull: As a governor that's had the experience as a mayor, I know how to go into these communities, work with the mayors, work with the councils, identify problems and approach those strategically on an individual basis.

And I think that's what we're missing in the state of New Mexico is you do get a one size fits all approach to many things, and there's a lot of things that do need that individual attention.

And I think we can do that with communities looking for the things that they're looking for.

>> Nash: Stick around to hear from Republican candidate for governor, Greg Hall, in about 20 minutes.

And thanks to Deb Haaland for making the time to sit for our questions.

Now that you hopefully have a better sense of Haaland and her platform, let's hear from her competitor in the Democratic primary, Bernalillo County District Attorney Sam Bregman.

I asked him about many of the same issues in an effort to help those of you voting in this primary assess which candidate resonates most with your values and hopes for New Mexico's future.

>> Nash: District Attorney, Sam Bragman, thanks so much for making the time and being here.

>> Bregman: Of course, thank you.

>> Nash: I imagine a lot of our viewers -- maybe at this point, but overall already are pretty familiar with you.

But I would like to give you a chance to introduce yourself to those who are still getting to know you and what you would bring to the governor's office.

>> Bregman: Well, just to get to know me a little bit, I've been blessed.

I've been able to raise a family here.

I have three adult children.

I have four grandchildren under the age of four years old.

I've had an amazing career in New Mexico and and very blessed and truly feel that way.

Andlook, I'm running for governor because we have real challenges in this state.

>> Nash: Can you outline a bit more about your resume, and why you're qualified for the position?

>> Bregman: Of course, so -- I've been a lawyer now my entire adult life.

I've been able to stand up for people and give them a voice in a courtroom, whether it's state court or federal court.

I've been arguing for human rights and constitutional rights for people my entire life.

I'm really proud of that.

I've also been a city councilor, years back before I had any of this gray hair, but I was a city councilor and was able to get some things done at the city council level as well.

>> Nash: Can you talk about your career defending constitutional rights, human rights?

You've represented countless clients who have faced police misconduct, including the family of Martin Jim, for instance.

And yet, you also represented one of the APD officers in the criminal case built on the shooting of of James Boyd, >> Bregman: Yes.

>> Nash: Which -- sparked the largest protests in a generation here in Albuquerque.

How are our primary voters to square that?

What are they to make of your legal career?

>> Nash: I'm a big rule of law guy.

I really believe in the rule of law.

I believe in the Constitution.

I believe giving meaning to the Constitution.

These are not just words on a piece of paper, but there are things that we as a country -- we as a country have lived up to.

And for example, the things that I'm seeinG with ICE that's not constitutional policing.

I have held police officers and departments accountable and through my work have gotten them to change certain things.

At the same time, I've also represented people and stood up for people because the kind of core principle in our -- fundamental principle in our in our criminal justice system is that everybody has a right to an attorney.

And, I'm very proud to have had a career where I've given people a voice.

>> Nash: And as the Bernalillo County District Attorney, you've positioned yourself as as the law and order candidate, the tough on crime candidate in this race in many ways.

What would you say to Democratic voters who don't believe that more police officers, more people locked up, makes their community safer?

>> Bregman: I will say this.

It's extremely important that we recognize the fact that when we do have more of a sense of community policing, more police officers on the street, that does work.

But the single biggest thing we need to do to fix crime in this state is fix our behavioral health, mental health and addiction recovery systems.

There's a lot of good people working in this, but it's not coordinated to the extent that it needs to be.

We can do better for for example, right now, I've been in a courtroom in the morning where the judge wants to sentence someone to treatment and there's no -- they say, “we can█t send you to treatment because there's no available beds.” But that afternoon, I've been in a rehab center myself, where there's 14 available beds.

>> Nash: As governor, what does that allow you to do in terms of amping up that coordination, in terms of making sure that those pieces are connected?

>> Bregman: Let's get something that will establish real results.

For example, a real time dashboard on the Department of Health, which actually tells everybody where all the available treatment beds are in this state for people suffering from mental health, suffering from addiction.

If a social worker walks up to someone in a homeless encampment right now, they ought to be able to pull up a real time dashboard on their iPad and say, “you know what?

You've hit rock bottom.” We've got a bed for you two blocks away.

Get in this van.

We'll get you over there.” The Department of Health, every nonprofit who's working in the behavioral health space needs to be calling in every morning, telling the Department of Health how many beds they have available if they get state funds.

That's a simple requirement that I think should be done.

That way, everybody knows, because there is no coordination right now.

>> Nash: Lujan Grisham has also had -- a very tough on crime agenda.

But she has struggled to get the Democratic led legislature to approve many of her proposals.

Why would you have more success when, you know, not necessarily this dashboard, but when we're talking about, you know, pretrial detention reform, those kinds of proposals that Lujan Grisham hasn't been able to get through.

>> Bregman: And, for example, juvenile justice too.

Juvenile justice is another issue, that we desperately need to update our criminal code on.

I think what I bring when it comes to criminal justice I've worked in criminal justice my entire adult life.

Certainly the privilege of representing all the citizens of Bernalillo County when it comes to being their DA, I live this day to day.

I'm also the chairman of the Organized Crime Commission.

I think I bring a very unique perspective, and I think I can communicate that to legislators.

>> Nash: Now you're running against Deb Haaland, a former Interior Department Secretary with a record of protecting New Mexico's public lands from development.

As governor, how would you balance perserving New Mexico's natural resources with tapping them as economic drivers?

And why should a voter who considers protecting public lands their number one issue vote for you, instead of the former Interior Department Secretary?

>> Bregman: I came out here a long time ago, to the University of New Mexico.

That's how I got here.

The reason I'm still here today, is because the wonderful place this is, all of its natural beauty, all of its public lands.

I love our public lands, I love our natural resources.

We have great opportunity to be able to protect our natural resources, our air, land and water.

And water is going to be a big issue.

And I wish we had all the time in the world to discuss that because it's extremely important.

But at the same time, we also have economic development and energy needs -- we█re the 2nd largest producer of oil and gas -- at the same time, we know we█re going to to have to switch to renewables, and we need a leader who's going to be able to balance the environmental concerns with making sure that economic growth isn't so stifled, that our kids and our grandkids can█t grow up and have opportunity here.

We have to balance those interests and we can balance those interests.

We can do both.

>> Nash: When I spoke to Haaland, she basically said, there's places to drill and there's places not to drill.

And she mentioned Chaco Canyon, for instance.

Where do you stand on protecting sacred lands, protected lands, like -- >> Bregman: I think we should protect sacred lands.

I don't know about the arbitrary ten mile radius -- the biggest concern I have with all of that -- The Navajo Nation is a sovereign Nation.

The people on the Navajo Nation deserve to be consulted about those kind of decisions.

They were not consulted about that decision.

They were not consulted as a Nation, as a sovereignty that they are.

And the individuals that that affected were not even spoken to from the Department of Interior.

That's a big concern for me.

We need to respect the sovereignty of all of our tribal nations in this state.

>> Nash: You mentioned water, in the Dukes Up debate.

Holland pushed back on your characterization of reusing produced water, fracking wastewater, and kind of the recycled water that gets used to water the city's parks.

She said, the difference between those two things is vast.

How would you go about safely putting to use produced water from the oil fields, and why should produce water be part of this equation of -- stemming the water issue at all, >> Bregman: Even more than the produced water issue?

Let me just make sure we focus the brackish water, the brackish water aquifer, the brackish water aquifer under our state is the largest in the world at 3500ft deep.

80% of our state sits over an entire ocean of brackish water.

>> Nash: Well -- and Lujan Grisham has been able to get her strategic water plan, as it relates to brackish water, through.

But it's that produced water piece that there's been more controversy, there█s been more pushback and concern about it being reused.

>> Bregman: Listen, brackish water and produce water, the technology is there and the experts in these fields will tell you.

New Mexico State University I was just down there.

They're doing amazing stuff on not only mapping the groundwater, mapping the brackish water, but the cleaning up of water.

And we can do this.

And the idea -- >> Nash: Well, the concern with the produced water is, that we don't know what's in it, because it's kind of a protected trade secret.

>> Bregman: Well, we're going to know what's in it.

Listen, the governor's number one job, is to protect the health and well-being of the citizens of this state.

And I'm not going to do anything to compromise that or jeopardize that, ever.

But at the same time, we can't just say, “well, do something else with it, ship it over to Texas.” We have to get down to work and figure out all these issues.

All of these are interrelated.

Economic development and the environment are critically linked, and we have to make sure we do well on both those fronts.

>> Nash: Kind of on that front, data centers are popping up across the state.

The largest and most controversial at the moment is probably Project Jupiter in Dona Ana County.

You've said that if done right, data centers could be a good thing for our communities.

What specifically is, “doing it right”, what does that look like?

>> Bregman: And I will reemphasize that if done right, it's really important -- >> Nash: So what does that mean?

>> Bregman: Using renewable energies, using wind and solar to power that or perhaps geothermal.

I know they've just recently switched to fuel cells.

Okay.

One side is the energy making sure that we're not polluting the environment more.

The other part of that energy equation is making sure that we're not making residents pay for some kind of increased electricity rate because of a data center, and those have to be guarantees -- >> Nash: And if they█re guaranteed how do you enforce that as the governor?

>> Bregman: You enforce that as the governor by enforcing the law, as we all do, and making sure we hold people accountable.

The second piece of that, though I want to talk about is the is the water issue.

And we shouldn't be using fresh water to be cooling data centers.

We should be using the exact stuff we were just talking about.

Brackish water can be treated to an industrial level all day long, and we know that, it's done already across this country.

So that is something we could use to cool where we're not using one drop of fresh water for these data centers.

But with those conditions, what happens is we provide thousands of construction jobs, the economic activity and the increase in economic activity for jobs for the local communities, plus the acceleration of renewable energy use.

>> Nash: Moving on to another industry, the massive private equity firm Blackstone is trying to buy PNM.

You've argued that the utility, PNM, just doesn't have the money to see through the Energy Transition Act without this sale.

And you said that with certain specific conditions, this acquisition could be a good solution.

What are those conditions?

How do you enforce them?

>> Bregman: And what I mean by that is, number one, the electric rates aren't going to go up on our citizens.

I'm going to require contractual obligations that have consequential damages if I have the opportunity to do that.

Number one, electric rates aren't going to go up.

Number two, that we actually have no New Mexico job loss but increase in New Mexico jobs.

PNM doesn't have the money to build out the capacity nor the transmission lines to do this.

Blackstone on the other hand, does.

Some people have said to me, well, let's just have the government take it over.

Well, that's nonsensical to me.

We know the government struggles with a lot of things, but I don't want a politician determining what rates people are paying, or the reliability of a grid.

I want experts determining that.

That's why we've just switched recently, as you know, to the PRC, where we have experts appointed -- >> Nash: And that█s the Public Regulation Commission.

>> Bregman: Right, yes.

Instead of politicians running that, we want people with expertise making these kinds of decisions.

And that's why it's in front of the PRC now, Blackstone has the money, and we've got to get to these goals of renewables.

And it's really important.

80% renewables by 2040 and 0% carbon by 2045 is in our state statute.

We got to live up to that law.

>> Nash: Okay.

Your predecessor in the DA's office, Attorney General Raul Torres, recently investigated the Children, Youth and Families department and came out with a damning report that outlined numerous systemic failures.

14 children have died in its custody.

Lujan Grisham criticized that report and defended the agency as having changed under her leadership.

What do you make of the report and what additional changes, if any, would you make to CYFD?

>> Bregman: So I read the report The report is no surprise to our office.

We are batting cleanup at the DA's office.

Too many horrific things have come out of CYFD, and there's a lot of good people working at CYFD, but, but because they are spread so thin, they don't do anything, anything well, and we need to refocus CYFD.

Number one, let█s staff them up.

That's the biggest glaring problem right now.

30% vacancy at any given moment, which leaves the people who are still working there working double overtime shifts with some of the most troubled kids in our state.

It's we're facing burnout time and time again.

I think we need to staff up.

I know how to staff up agencies.

When I took over the DA's office, we only had 78 attorneys.

We had homicide prosecutors with 50 cases apiece.

The caseloads at CYFD are crazy big for individual people.

You bring in more staff, you get better results.

Same thing we did.

Now, homicide prosecutors in my DA's office only have 20 homicide cases apiece.

>> Nash: What else besides staffing up?

>> Bregman: Staffing up, splitting out the CYFD.

So, in other words, abuse and neglect is one agency juvenile justice as another agency.

It gives a little bit more focus, a little bit more direction.

I'm open minded to this idea that the legislature, many of them want to have a commission, but I'm open minded that.

But here's what I want to be, make sure we don't lose accountability -- >> Nash: Because that would take it out from underneath the governor's office -- >> Bregman: Right, and the governor's office, and I'm not, I'm open minded to it, but but what I really believe in as accountability, we do it at the DA's office, hold everybody accountable, making sure they're reporting back on the results that they're getting.

If we don't hold people accountable, we fail and we need to hold people accountable.

And that's why I think having the governor be able to have control over CYFD, just like it does the other agencies, I think, is an important thing.

>> Nash: Speaking of executive agency accountability, a judge last year found the state remains out of compliance with the Yazzie Martinez ruling that happened back in 2018, nearly ten years ago, the public Education Department came out with a plan to remediate that in the fall.

The plaintiffs in the case, they don't like it, and they've been calling for a rewrite.

How under your governorship, would New Mexico finally get into compliance with this ruling and provide a sufficient education to all New Mexico students?

>> Bregman: Let's start with our our tribal governments.

We need to have the tribal governments having some, our sovereign tribal friends having real input with PED and collaborating in a big way about how to make sure that they get to preserve their culture and their language, but at the same time making sure we're giving them the kind of education that all the children of New Mexico deserve and need.

I will say this about education, and it goes right to this point.

Everybody needs to be held accountable.

All of this is a direct result of the fact that we are failing our kids.

When we are 50th in education, we used to battle Mississippi.

If you remember, as who was 50th, we're still 50th.

They're now 15th in the country.

And how do they do it?

They did it by holding people accountable, whether or not it's the school districts and holding them accountable so they are transparent with what their goals are and whether or not they're reaching their goals.

It's holding the administrators accountable.

It's holding teachers accountable.

We want to support our teachers, but let's let them be teachers.

Let's pay them as much as we can.

Teachers are being required to be social workers and every other thing you can think of, disciplinarian and everything else.

But we also lead the country in chronic absenteeism >> Nash: Do you see these accountability measures.

Would they get the state into compliance with Yazzie Martinez?

>> Bregman: If you do it in the right way?

Absolutely.

And it's not just that.

It's also holding the kids accountable too, making sure they show up for school.

But yes, I do believe that.

I do believe we can do this and we just we can't accept the status quo any more.

We have to have results oriented people who are leading these agencies all across, whether it's CYFD, whether or not it's education, public safety, economic development, affordability, all these issues need to be need to be handled by experts who want to see things get done.

And that's what I'm all about.

>> Nash: Sam Bregman, thanks so much for your time.

>> Bregman: Thank you.

>> Nash: Thanks to DA Bregman for coming by our studio to discuss his campaign.

If you caught the show last week, you got to hear from Republican candidates for Governor Doug Turner and Duke Rodriguez.

If you missed it, you can still catch those interviews on YouTube and on the PBS app.

But tonight, we round out our coverage of that race with the third and final candidate, Greg Hull, who until recently served as the mayor of Rio Rancho for more than a decade.

Politics Correspondent Gwyneth Doland sat with Hull this week to get his take on what's at stake in this governor's race, and why he's asking for Republican and Independent voter█s support in the primary.

>> Gwyneth: Greg Hull, thank you so much for being with us today.

>> Hull: Gwyneth, Thank you.

It's a pleasure to be here.

>> Gwyneth: You have described yourself as a pragmatic leader rather than an ideological Republican.

But tell us, what is one specific issue where you disagree with your party?

And what does that say about the kind of governor you█d be >> Hull: Well, I'd hate to frame as a disagree.

What I like to do is look at each issue on an individual basis and evaluate it on how it best serves our community.

That's the way I did it in Rio Rancho, and that's the way I'll do it as governor as well.

So when it comes to individual policies, I look at each policy in its own separate light.

How it's impacting individuals, what we can do to tune it up or maybe eliminate it, or just refine it to a way that it best serves.

>> Gwyneth: So pick one specific disagreement.

>> Hull: One specific disagreement I'm going to tell you Right off the bat, I just once again, I don't have a very specific one and I apologize, but -- >> Gwyneth: Okay!

Rio Rancho has earned high marks for affordability, safety, and quality of family life.

What specifically have you done as mayor to make Rio Rancho more affordable and safer?

>> Hull: Well, the one thing that we've done as mayor is, I have worked very closely with the council, the city leadership, to make sure that we're doing the things that move the city forward.

Infrastructure was huge.

And so going out and working to make sure that we were getting roads fixed and going out and making sure that we were repairing our water systems.

When I took office, a lot of these were in really bad disarray, and there's still a lot more work to be done.

As you as you know, infrastructure is something you just always working on, but at the same point in time is looking at ways that we could keep, for example, our tax rate flat.

Growing the economy.

So I'm very proud of the fact that our sales tax rate is the same today as when I took office in 2014, and that helps affordability and that helps keep costs down.

And when you think about the cost of a house in a construction situation, it's impacted by gross receipts tax.

And that can add additional dollars to the cost of that home.

>> Gwyneth: What about safety?

>> Hull: Safety, investing heavily in public safety.

More than doubling our budget into our law enforcement department and growing those resources and supporting that in those budgets, and making sure that when we would go before budget hearings, advocating to the Council that this is the direction we needed to go.

>> Gwyneth: So Rio Rancho is a relatively affluent city that sits right alongside the state's biggest metropolitan area.

From that, what from the model in Rio Rancho translates to places around the state that have very different assets and challenges, like Gallup, Clovis, Las Vegas.

>> Hull: Right.

What you have to do is go in and look at each community on its own basis.

This is not a one size fits all process.

>> Gwyneth: But as governor, you are approaching it from a statewide perspective.

>> Hull: We are, but as a as a governor that's had the experience as a mayor, I know how to go into these communities, work with the mayors, work with the councils, identify problems and approach those strategically on an individual basis.

And I think that's what we're missing in the state of New Mexico is you do get a one size fits all approach to many things, and there's a lot of things that do need that individual attention.

And I think we can do that with communities looking for the things that they're looking for.

And you are correct.

Rio Rancho sits on the edge of Albuquerque, and we share a border with Albuquerque.

But when I first took office, our median income was at about 52-53,000.

And now it's up to around, I think, over 85.

And that was due to the fact that we really created a community that people felt safe in.

And the school district there is just outstanding.

So a lot of people were coming there and moving to Rio Rancho Years ago It wasn't the community of choice.

It was, you know, it was a suburb of Albuquerque, but now it's completely kind of morphed and changed.

So we'll work with communities on a local level.

>> Gwyneth: So what's one thing from your time there that you would apply statewide as governor?

>> Hull: So statewide, I would take a statewide water approach where we work with the communities.

We led the state in the first aquifer recharge system.

And I think that that's something that when we look at the scarcity of water in the state, we need to be utilizing every drop that we can get.

So working with local communities on a statewide water policy to make that a more symbiotic relationship as opposed to a siloed one.

>> Gwyneth: Michelle Lujan Grisham and the legislature have used tax incentives and state investments to try to grow and diversify the economy.

Your plan relies more on lowering barriers and letting the private sector lead in a state with a relatively small private sector, though, why does that approach work better, and how quickly will voters see results?

>> Hull: Well, number one, I think the regulatory barriers that a lot of companies face coming into the state are critical because it's an uphill battle sometimes getting companies to come here.

And as a mayor, I've worked closely with site selectors and understanding what they're looking for when they come into the community, whether it's, you know, workforce needs, infrastructure, the different things that they're looking for, that that would make New Mexico a good fit.

So yes, from a regulatory standpoint now, but we've also in Rio Rancho used tax incentives.

We've had used IRBs, we've used, what we call PIDs and TIDs to incentivize development, to try to bring down costs, not only for the companies that are coming here, but for the people that are moving into the community.

So pairing those tools up so that you have a public benefit and a private benefit to the total overall relationship is an approach that I've taken in Rio Rancho And that's the approach I'll take for the state of New Mexico.

>> Gwyneth: I want to stick with that theme for a second.

In many parts of rural New Mexico, access to health care is in crisis.

Providers shortages, long travel distances, struggling hospitals.

You've said we need to train more providers and reduce barriers, but that doesn't guarantee that more doctors will stay or move in to rural communities.

What would you do in your first year to improve access to health care in rural areas?

>> Hull: Well, number one, we're going to look at the housing is a huge thing when doctors come into the state, and especially in rural communities where maybe the salaries aren't competitive.

So we want to look at potential tax benefits, where we can incentivize doctors to go into rural communities and provide those services there.

So that would be day one, where we've got to go in.

Now that we have HB 99 on the books and we've got some medical malpractice reform, I think that creates a better climate and a better environment for doctors to come back into the state.

It also creates a climate for us to work closely with -- for example, UNMH, you know, and work closely with that school to help them go ahead and expand the existing infrastructure that they have into our rural communities, so that we're training doctors and keeping doctors there, and they're part of that greater system.

So keeping that expertise here in the state, I don't think it's -- I don't think it's going to be hard to do.

I think it's just going to take some innovative approaches, working with the resources we have, and extending those as far as we can take them.

>> Gwyneth: Some states have used aggressive public investment to stabilize rural health care systems.

Do you think -- and I'm thinking here, of patients who don't necessarily -- who can't afford insurance, things like that.

Do you think New Mexico has a responsibility to ensure access to health care, even when the private market won't provide it?

>> Hull: I think what we have to do is step forward and help anybody that we can in the health care world, when people need care, we need to make sure that we're providing care.

So whether the state pays for those policies or we work with private industries to help make them more accessible, more affordable.

For me, all options are going to on the table to talk about how we make that accessible for everybody.

And so we will work closely with industry and with the legislature to figure out sources for funding, to make sure that people are receiving the care that they need.

>> Gwyneth: I want to move to energy.

The private equity firm Blackstone is proposing to take over PNM, the state's largest electrical utility.

Supporters of the deal say that New Mexico needs major long term investment both to meet growing demand and to hit clean energy goals.

Critics of Blackstone say that it will need to recover its costs, and that New Mexicans are going to pay for it one way or the other.

You have said that reliability and affordability come first.

How do you make that happen and who pays for it?

>> Hull: Well, quite frankly, when you look at a takeover like this, you do have to look at what their plan is and what their investments are.

I've seen this as mayor of Rio Rancho when we've seen expansions of power systems and what that cost puts on individuals.

So when these mergers or these takeovers or purchases end up happening, we want to look at what the total overall plan, what the long term plan is.

But ultimately when you look at a company taking over an existing company or expanding and existing company, typically what you see is you as that, as those energy needs grow and as those companies expand, those costs do typically go out onto the consumers.

So what we want to make sure is that we're not overburdening and running up utility rates.

This is why I want to partner with industries that will help us bring down those energy rates.

And I think there are economic opportunities.

And I've talked about this in a couple of different areas.

When we talk about data centers and onboarding their own power plants through a local economic agreement, have them over build those power supplies and then through a power purchase agreement, back feed that into local grids to help bring down utility costs and balance that investment in the community, along with providing a benefit to the local, to the area residents.

So we're going to have to evaluate very closely, work with the PRC on any purchase to make sure that utility rates do not skyrocket, because, quite frankly, affordability is a number one issue that I'm talking to people around the state, and the last thing they want to see is their utility bills go so I would not be supportive of a purchase that would that would run up utility rates successfully or right now at all.

>> Gwyneth: But don't they need to spend the money to make sure that our grid is functioning and that we're able to produce enough energy?

>> Gwyneth: Yes they do.

Yes we do.

And once again, that's going to happen.

Whether you've got the, whether you have PNM that's doing it, that's expanding the grid or Blackstone or any other company.

>> Gwyneth: So what guardrails can you put in place to protect those consumers?

>> Hull: Well, we have to look at the investments are making and making sure that the that we have the consumers that are ready to take the power.

But this is a big one, is that industry is not coming to New Mexico.

I've seen industry not come to New Mexico because we don't have the power of resources available.

So we want to partner with those industries to bring that power in.

But we can't put that on the backs of the ratepayers.

Rio Rancho leaned Republican.

During much of your time as mayor.

As governor, you'd be dealing with a Democratic legislature in a heavily Democratic state at this point.

What experience do you have working across serious political differences?

I, as chairman of the New Mexico Mayors Caucus for eight years, I worked with mayors across the state.

And if there's one thing that mayors know how to do is settle side those political differences and talk about the issues that matter.

The things that really impact people on a day to day basis, whether that's public safety, health care, education.

Infrastructure.

All of these things come front and center.

And as a mayor, I've had to work with that legislature for the last 12 years, you know, working to get certain bills passed, working, get certain bills stopped.

And then I've had to work with governors from both party persuasions to try to make sure that what's happening in New Mexico benefited my city and the surrounding communities to make sure that we were we were being recognized for the growth that we were having, and the fact that one of the things that I fought for was local autonomy, right, is making sure that we had maximum local governance to do what I needed to do for the citizens of Rio Rancho, and that's the way I work.

So I've had that experience.

It has been largely in a nonpartizan world for me, and that means that I have to bring everybody to the table.

Whether it's a Republican, Independent, Democrat, doesn't matter.

A lot of us are focused on the very same things.

And that's the way I'll take that to the roundhouse.

>> Gwyneth: I want to talk about education.

You sent your kids to public schools in New Mexico based on your family's experience, what are New Mexico public schools doing well, and where are they falling short?

>> Hull: Well, I think that the public schools do well when it comes to in my experience, with five kids is that we were very engaged parents.

So working closely with the teachers, working closely with the schools.

When you have engaged parents, I think that you you get a little bit different result there.

But where the schools I think are doing well is reaching out and trying to get those communications going with the parents.

But at the same point in time, I think we're not doing a good job is social promotion.

It's a huge thing is that I know that one of my kids, we held them back for a year, and when I was a kid, I was held back for a year and it didn't hurt me.

And I think that if we have kids that are at the third grade level and can't read it, that their grade level, we need to take a serious evaluation as to whether we should go ahead and move them on, because I have seen as mayor and as a former employer, I ran a small business, a packing and shipping company for 12 years, and some of the kids that I hired did not have basic reading skills after they graduated high school.

And I think that that is a disservice to our children, and it doesn't get them on the right path to be successful.

>> Gwyneth: So is that something that you would push in your first year?

>> Hull: Yes.

>> Gwyneth: Okay.

Is there anything else that you think would make an immediate improvement in public school education?

>> Hull: Immediate improvement, I think, is getting a PED secretary that's going to stay put for the for the term.

Four years, eight years, stay put, build consistency and start really working with the local districts to make sure that we understand the character and culture of the communities that they're serving, and really helping our PED, our school districts work together to make sure that we're coming away with the results, not just graduating kids, but graduating kids that actually can read and can do, you know, add and do math, you know, and so, I mean, these are some critical skills.

One of the things that I love that we've done in Rio Rancho, and it's one thing that I'm going to really lean into heavily is career technical education is putting kids on a path to a career through plumbers, pipefitters, HVAC, electrical, framing, auto mechanics.

All of these things are very good paying jobs, and they're great careers and making sure that our kids have a choice.

If they want to go to college and get a PhD, then great, let's help them do that.

But if they want to get right into the workforce, let's give them some skills that they can come right out of high school and put to immediate use.

>> Gwyneth: Last question.

You have largely avoided deeply criticizing President Trump during this campaign, and you've said your focus is with on working with any administration.

>> Hull: Yes.

>> Gwyneth: But President Trump has also publicly attacked Republican governors, members of Congress and other Republicans who break with him.

If you become governor, are there Trump policies or actions that you would openly disagree with, and where would you draw the line if you believed that New Mexico's interests require it?

>> Hull: I'm going to always disagree with any administration or agree with any administration.

When I'm working in the best interests of what I want to try to accomplish in New Mexico.

New Mexico is going to be my number one focus.

And as I've said as mayor, I've worked with two different administrations, governor administrations, I've worked with two different presidential administrations.

We've had different federal delegations that have gone to D.C., and we've worked with them as well.

I've worked very closely with our senators.

>> Hull: But let me ask you this, If you were governor today, is there one issue that you think is so central to New Mexico's interests that you would be willing to break with Trump on it?

>> Hull: You know, I think the one thing that I would look at primarily and this goes back to, once again, protecting New Mexico, is making sure that any policy that is enacted by the federal government does not adversely affect our communities here in New Mexi >> Gwyneth: We█re at war with Iran right now, and gas is approaching past $4 a gallon.

>> Hull: Well, oil and gas is up right now.

Yes.

Correct.

And so I would look at what can we do to enhance our ability to offset that by through oil and gas production right here in the state of New Mexico, because we are one of the second largest producer in the country.

And one of the things that we really need to look at is making sure that we have our internal opportunities so that the federal government's policies don't have such an immediate impact.

>> Gwyneth: Nothing you would break with Trump on.

>> Hull: Well, I'm not saying that.

I'm just saying right now as far as policies, >> Gwyneth: Medicaid, Snap?

>> Hull: Medicaid, we would fight to make sure that we have Medicaid in the state of New Mexico and that's continuing to fund the individuals that need it.

That's another program that I think that we have to look at.

We have to evaluate to make sure that the people are getting it and that it is an assistance program and not a lifestyle.

>> Gwyneth: Gregory Hull, thank so much for being with us.

>> Hull: You're very welcome.

>> Nash: Thanks to Greg Hull for making it on [New Mexico] in Focus after last week's scheduling challenges and everyone else who contributed to the show.

That does it for your 2026 primary candidates for Governor.

Early voting expands some more sites tomorrow, and you can find out where those are on your County Clerk's website.

And Election Day is just over two weeks away now on on June 2nd.

Join us here next week when reporter, Cailley Chella returns with a look at a fight for union rights at the National Hispanic Cultural Center.

And quickly, before we go.

We have some really exciting news and cause for celebration to share with you.

Our senior producer, Lou DiVizio and his wife, Ann Pierret, welcomed their second child, Baby Vera, to the world this week.

Congrats Lou and Ann, from all of us here at the station.

We're so happy for you.

For New Mexico PBS, I'm Nash Jones.

Until next week, stay focused.

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