Nuclear Expansion in NM; MMIP Advisory Council
Season 18 Episode 5 | 57m 27sVideo has Closed Captions
This week, two advocates say a public meeting about nuclear production was a wasted opportunity.
This week, two anti-nuclear advocates say a town hall meeting with federal officials about nuclear production was a wasted opportunity. Journalist Bella Davis breaks down what we know and don't know about a new advisory council on missing and murdered indigenous people. The executive director of the ACLU of New Mexico tells us how his organization has changed over the last two-plus decades.
New Mexico In Focus is a local public television program presented by NMPBS
Nuclear Expansion in NM; MMIP Advisory Council
Season 18 Episode 5 | 57m 27sVideo has Closed Captions
This week, two anti-nuclear advocates say a town hall meeting with federal officials about nuclear production was a wasted opportunity. Journalist Bella Davis breaks down what we know and don't know about a new advisory council on missing and murdered indigenous people. The executive director of the ACLU of New Mexico tells us how his organization has changed over the last two-plus decades.
How to Watch New Mexico In Focus
New Mexico In Focus is available to stream on pbs.org and the free PBS App, available on iPhone, Apple TV, Android TV, Android smartphones, Amazon Fire TV, Amazon Fire Tablet, Roku, Samsung Smart TV, and Vizio.
Providing Support for PBS.org
Learn Moreabout PBS online sponsorship>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
>> Jeff: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.
JOURNALIST BELLA DAVIS DETAILS HER FRUSTRATING PURSUIT TO GET ANSWERS ABOUT THE STATE'S MISSING AND MURDERED INDIGENOUS PEOPLE ADVISORY COUNCIL AND... >> Gomez: WHAT IT FELT LIKE THIS TIME WAS WHAT IT OFTEN FEELS LIKE WHICH IS D.C. COMES TO NEW MEXICO AND DOES THINGS D.C.'S WAY.
>> Jeff: NUCLEAR FALLOUT.
TWO ADVOCATES TELL US WHY A PUBLIC MEETING WITH FEDERAL OFFICIALS ABOUT OUR STATE'S STORAGE AND MANUFACTURING OF NUCLEAR MATERIALS WAS A MISSED OPPORTUNITY.
NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.
THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.
I'M EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR.
THE STATE'S NEW ADVISORY COUNCIL ON MISSING AND MURDERED INDIGENOUS PEOPLE MET FOR THE FIRST AND ONLY TIME IN MARCH.
WHAT HAPPENED AT THAT MEETING, AND WHO EVEN ATTENDED IS A MYSTERY.
LATER IN TODAY'S SHOW, NEW MEXICO IN DEPTH INDIGENOUS AFFAIRS REPORTER BELLA DAVIS WALKS US THROUGH HER ATTEMPT TO GET ANSWERS FROM STATE OFFICIALS ABOUT THIS IMPORTANT COUNCIL.
THE ACLU HAS REPRESENTED THE FREE SPEECH RIGHTS FOR SOME PRETTY NASTY CLIENTS OVER THE YEARS, BUT THINGS CHANGED AFTER A VIOLENT WHITE SUPREMACIST RALLY IN CHARLOTTESVILLE, VIRGINIA, TURNED DEADLY IN 2017.
IN LESS THAN 30 MINUTES, WE'LL RETURN TO MY CONVERSATION WITH PETER SIMONSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AT THE ACLU OF NEW MEXICO, TO DISCUSS HOW HIS ORGANIZATION HAS CHANGED ITS PROCESS FOR IDENTIFYING FIRST AMENDMENT CASES.
BUT FIRST, WE TURN OUR ATTENTION TO A JULY TOWN HALL MEETING IN POJOAQUE, WHERE OFFICIALS FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY HEARD RESIDENTS' CONCERNS ABOUT THE STATE'S INVOLVEMENT WITH NUCLEAR PRODUCTION AND WASTE STORAGE.
KUNM'S MEGAN KAMERICK BEGINS BY ASKING TWO ANTI-NUCLEAR ADVOCATES WHY THE MEETING WAS SUCH A MISSED OPPORTUNITY.
>> Megan: WELCOME, DON HANCOCK, DIRECTOR OF THE NUCLEAR WASTE SAFETY PROGRAM AT THE SOUTHWEST RESEARCH AND INFORMATION CENTER.
AND MYRRIAH GOMEZ, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO HONORS COLLEGE AND AUTHOR OF "NUCLEAR NUEVO MEXICO, COLONIALISM AND EFFECTS OF THE NUCLEAR INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX ON NUEVO MEXICANOS."
THANK YOU, BOTH, FOR JOINING ME.
>> Gomez: THANK YOU, MEGAN.
>> Megan: DON, I WANT TO START WITH YOU.
WHY DID YOUR ORGANIZATION PUSH FOR THIS MEETING THAT TOOK PLACE WITH FEDERAL OFFICIALS?
>> Hancock: NEW MEXICO IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE NATION AND THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY WHEN IT COMES TO NUCLEAR WEAPONS AND NUCLEAR WASTE.
AND SO, THEY NEED TO NOT JUST SIT IN WASHINGTON, D.C., THEY NEED TO COME, TOP OFFICIALS, NEED TO COME TO NEW MEXICO TO LISTEN TO NEW MEXICO CONCERNS, ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT PEOPLE HAVE BECAUSE THEY DO A ROTTEN JOB, NORMALLY, OF COMMUNICATING WITH PEOPLE.
AND SO, WE'VE BEEN PUSHING FOR A WHILE, AND LAST YEAR IN 2023, THEY DID THIS KIND OF THE FIRST TIME.
AND THEY DID IT AGAIN THIS YEAR.
SO, WE THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN ON A REGULAR BASIS BECAUSE OTHERWISE WE KNOW THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HEAR PEOPLE IN NEW MEXICO'S CONCERNS.
>> Megan: WHAT KEY ISSUES NEED TO BE ADDRESSED HERE?
>> Hancock: SO, NEW MEXICO IS THE CENTER OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
OF COURSE, AS PEOPLE KNOW, GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE MANHATTAN PROJECT AND LOS ALAMOS, BUT WE'RE STILL THAT WAY.
THE FIRST SITE THAT'S SUPPOSED TO START BUILDING NEW PLUTONIUM PITS, THE CORES OF NUCLEAR BOMBS, IS LOS ALAMOS, HERE IN NEW MEXICO.
>> Megan: THEY BUILT THEM BEFORE BUT THESE ARE A NEW GENERATION.
>> Hancock: THIS WILL BE A NEW GENERATION OF PITS FOR NEW NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
D.O.E HAS SEVEN NEW NUCLEAR WEAPONS ON THE DRAWING BOARD.
BUT THE OTHER THING IS, IN ADDITION TO EVERYTHING ELSE THAT MYRRIAH HAS TALKED ABOUT IN HER BOOK, WE'RE THE ONLY STATE IN THE NATION WITH A GEOLOGIC REPOSITORY FOR NUCLEAR WASTE.
THE WASTE ISOLATION PILOT PLANT IN SOUTHEASTERN NEW MEXICO.
IN FACT, WIP IS THE ONLY OPERATING GEOLOGIC REPOSITORY IN THE ENTIRE WORLD.
SO BECAUSE OF THE IMPORTANCE OF NEW WEAPONS, SANDIA OF COURSE IS ALSO PART OF THAT, SINCE THEY DO THE NON-NUCLEAR COMPONENTS.
SO, WE HAVE -- NEW MEXICO IS UNIQUE.
IT'S THE ONLY STATE IN THE NATION THAT BOTH IS PRODUCING NEW NUCLEAR WEAPONS AND STORING THE WASTE.
THERE IS NO OTHER STATE THAT DOES THAT.
SO, WE ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO THEM, AND THEY NEED TO HEAR FROM US AND PAY ATTENTION TO US.
AND WHEN THEY DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO US WE NEED OUR STATE OFFICIALS, FOR EXAMPLE, TO TAKE SOME ACTION, SO THEY WILL HAVE TO LISTEN TO US EVEN WHEN THEY DON'T WANT TO.
>> Megan: MYRRIAH, YOU WERE PART OF THE -- THERE'S A VIRTUAL AUDIENCE ON ZOOM.
THERE'S AN IN-PERSON AUDIENCE WHERE DON WAS, WHAT WERE YOUR IMPRESSIONS OF THE MEETING?
>> Gomez: YOU KNOW, IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING TO BE ONLINE FOR VARIOUS REASONS.
I REALLY EXPECTED IT TO BE A FORUM-STYLE OF ZOOM MEETING, WHERE EVERYBODY WOULD BE WATCHING AND THERE WOULD BE ON OPPORTUNITY TO SUBMIT QUESTIONS, BUT WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT AT ALL.
IN FACT, THERE WAS NO ONE REALLY MODERATING ON THE ONLINE END.
TO THE POINT THAT WHEN THE MEETING ENDED IT JUST KEPT FILMING AND ALL OF US WERE KIND OF STILL AROUND UNMUTING OURSELVES, TALKING TO EACH OTHER.
IT WAS A LITTLE STRANGE.
BUT IT WAS ALSO ENCOURAGING TO SEE ABOUT 130 PARTICIPANTS ONLINE.
AND WHAT SEEMED TO BE OVER 350 PARTICIPANTS IN PERSON.
>> Megan: DON, WHAT WAS YOUR IMPRESSION BEING THERE IN PERSON?
IT WAS ON POJOAQUE PUEBLO.
>> Hancock: IT WAS ON POJOAQUE PUEBLO, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT WAS NEVER RECOGNIZED.
THERE WERE PUEBLO OFFICIALS FROM SEVERAL PUEBLOS THAT WERE THERE, AND THEY WERE NOT RECOGNIZED EITHER UNTIL HALFWAY THROUGH THE FORUM.
IT WAS TOTAL DISRESPECT FOR PUEBLO PEOPLE AND PUEBLO LANDS IN THE STATE.
AND THAT WAS REALLY AWFUL FROM MY STANDPOINT.
>> Megan: IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY NEEDED MORE LOCAL INPUT ON A LOT OF THINGS, POTENTIALLY.
>> Hancock: WELL, THEY HAVE LOCAL INPUT.
LOS ALAMOS IS HERE.
SANDIA IS HERE.
WIP IS HERE.
THEY HAD OFFICIALS IN THE ROOM FROM LOS ALAMOS, AND FROM SANDIA, AND FROM WIP.
SO, THEY SHOULD DEFINITELY HAVE KNOWN BETTER.
>> Megan: MYRRIAH, WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE SEEN HAPPEN WITH THIS OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO SPEAK DIRECTLY TO PUBLIC OFFICIALS?
>> Gomez: YEAH, YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE WAS A FINE OPPORTUNITY HERE THAT KIND OF WENT ASTRAY, RIGHT?
WE SAW A REALLY DIFFERENT PUBLIC MEETING -- PUBLIC FORUM, TOWN HALL THAN WE SAW A YEAR AGO WHEN IT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF LONGER TIME LAST YEAR.
WE HAD A LOCAL OFFICIAL WHO WAS ACTUALLY MODERATING, FRAMING QUESTIONS, REFRAMING QUESTIONS, RECOGNIZING THE LANDS WE WERE ON, OFFERING A BLESSING.
DOING THINGS THE WAY WE TYPICALLY DO THINGS IN NEW MEXICO.
WHAT IT FELT LIKE THIS TIME WAS LIKE WHAT IT OFTEN FEELS LIKE, WHICH IS D.C. COMES TO NEW MEXICO AND DOES THINGS D.C.'S WAY.
AND I THINK THAT IN TERMS OF PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT AND PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT THERE WERE AMPLE OPPORTUNITIES -- AND THERE STILL ARE.
WE CAN DO THIS AGAIN.
WE SHOULD DO THIS AGAIN, IN FACT.
TO ENGAGE THE TRUE PUBLIC.
I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WAS ACTUALLY DISAPPOINTED IN WAS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO WERE CALLED, WHO WERE LITERALLY PASSED THE MIC, WERE PEOPLE LIKE DON, WERE PEOPLE LIKE JAY COGHLAN -- >> Megan: WITH NUCLEAR WATCH NEW MEXICO.
>> Gomez: WITH NUKE WATCH NEW MEXICO, WHO READ A STATEMENT FROM THE ARCHBISHOP.
PEOPLE WHO ARE TYPICALLY IN COMMUNICATION WITH THESE FOLKS, THESE FOLKS KNOW WHERE THESE ORGANIZATIONS AND INDIVIDUALS STAND.
AND THERE WERE VERY FEW ACTUAL PUBLIC ATTENDEES WHO GOT TO SAY THEIR PIECE.
AND THAT, FOR ME, WAS REALLY DISAPPOINTING.
I REALLY COMMEND THE FOLKS WHO, WHEN THEY WERE CALLED ON, ACTUALLY HANDED THE MIC TO INDIGENOUS RELATIVES.
INCLUDING ONLINE, LEONA MORGAN WAS HANDED THE MIC IN THE ONLINE FORUM.
ONLY THREE PEOPLE GOT CALLED ONLINE.
I THINK TOTAL THERE WERE LIKE 17 PEOPLE WHO GOT TO SPEAK, BUT YOU KNOW, THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE TIME ALLOCATED TO THE PUBLIC.
THERE NEEDS TO BE A MORE ROBUST WAY THAT THEY ENGAGE THE PUBLIC.
I DON'T WANT TO CHANGE TOPICS, BUT YOU KNOW, WHEN WE WERE TALKING ON THE RADIO LAST WEEK, AND WE WERE DISCUSSING THE CURRENT EXECUTIVE ORDER, 14096, THE REVITALIZING OUR NATION'S COMMITMENT TO ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE, ONE THING THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING IN THERE IS IT ACTUALLY CALLS FOR STRATEGIC PLANS FROM VARIOUS AGENCIES.
AND WE'VE JUST RECENTLY ACTUALLY SEEN THE ISSUANCE OF D.O.E'S STRATEGIC PLANNING PROCESS, AND THERE IS A PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD THAT IS CURRENTLY OPEN UNTIL JULY 31st.
AND SO, HERE'S A REALLY GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PUBLIC TO SUBMIT COMMENTS.
AND PROBABLY, AND THIS IS THE CONCERN THAT I HAVE, THE NEW MEXICO PUBLIC DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO DO THAT.
MOST PEOPLE ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW HOW.
SO, SOMETIMES TOWN HALLS ARE BETTER BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN GET UP AND MORE EASILY AND INFORMALLY SAY WHAT THEY WANT TO SAY.
>> Megan: OR IF THEY HAVE LOW CONNECTIVITY ON THE INTERNET, IT'S AN ISSUE HERE.
>> Gomez: WE KNOW THAT SENATOR LUJAN IS WORKING ON THAT.
THAT IS A MAJOR ISSUE THAT PLAYS REALLY PROMINENTLY INTO THE ACCESS THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO THESE SORT OF PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT OPPORTUNITIES.
>> Megan: DON, AS YOU MENTIONED LANL IS NOW RAMPING UP PRODUCTION OF NEW PLUTONIUM PITS FOR THE NEXT GENERATION OF WEAPONS.
WHAT REASONING DID OFFICIALS GIVE FOR A NEW GENERATION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS?
>> Hancock: DR. HRUBY, THE HEAD OF NATIONAL NUCLEAR SECURITY ADMINISTRATION, THE WEAPONS PART OF D.O.E, STARTED OFF HER INITIAL DISCUSSION TALKING ABOUT RUSSIA AND CHINA DEVELOPING NEW WEAPONS, AND SHE SAID WE DON'T HAVE TO KEEP UP WITH THEM ONE TO ONE, BUT WE HAVE TO KEEP UP WITH THEM.
SO, SHE WAS PUTTING IT TOTALLY IN THE CONTEXT OF SUPPOSEDLY PROTECTING THE UNITED STATES.
SHE DIDN'T MENTION THAT WE HAVE OVER 1500 WARHEADS NOW.
MORE IN RESERVE.
WAY MORE THAN WHAT ANYBODY THINKS WE COULD ACTUALLY USE.
I MEAN, EVEN IF, A FEW NUCLEAR WEAPONS WOULD ESSENTIALLY DESTROY THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT.
SO, SHE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THAT AT ALL.
SHE WAS TRYING TO JUSTIFY WHAT IN A LOT OF OUR VIEWS IS JUSTIFIABLE.
>> Jeff: LAST NOVEMBER, GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM CALLED FOR THE CREATION OF AN ADVISORY COUNCIL TO ADDRESS THE CRISIS OF MISSING AND MURDERED INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.
THE COUNCIL WAS FORMED SHORTLY AFTER THE GOVERNOR QUIETLY DISSOLVED A STATE TASK FORCE WORKING ON THE SAME ISSUE.
SINCE THEN, THE COUNCIL HAS MET JUST ONCE.
AND BECAUSE THEY DID SO WITH THE DOOR SHUT, WE DON'T KNOW MUCH MORE THAN THAT.
NEW MEXICO IN DEPTH REPORTER BELLA DAVIS RECENTLY STOPPED BY OUR STUDIO TO HIGHLIGHT THE FEW ANSWERS AND MANY TRANSPARENCY QUESTIONS SHE HAS FOR AN ADVISORY COUNCIL THE GOVERNOR SAYS IS MEANT TO HELP BRING MISSING NATIVE PEOPLE HOME.
BELLA DAVIS, THANK YOU FOR COMING IN TO SHARE SOME OF YOUR REPORTING WITH US.
AND WELCOME BACK TO NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.
>> Davis: HAPPY TO BE HERE.
>> Jeff: SO, YOU WERE LAST HERE IN NOVEMBER INTERVIEWING VANGIE RANDALL-SHORTY, WHOSE SON ZACHARIAH WAS MURDERED IN 2020, AND ATTORNEY DARLENE GOMEZ ABOUT GOVERNOR LUJAN GRISHAM'S DECISION TO QUIETLY SHUTTER THE STATE'S MISSING AND MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND RELATIVES TASK FORCE.
NOT LONG AFTER YOU REPORTED ON THE SHUTTERING, THE ADMINISTRATION TOOK A STEP ON THIS CRISIS.
CAN YOU CATCH VIEWERS UP WITH WHAT HAPPENED AT THE END OF LAST YEAR?
>> Davis: YEAH, SO ABOUT A MONTH AFTER WE PUBLISHED OUR STORY ABOUT THE GOVERNOR'S DECISION TO DISBAND THAT TASK FORCE, HER ADMINISTRATION ANNOUNCED SHE WAS GOING TO BE CREATING A NEW ADVISORY COUNCIL TO FOCUS ON THE SAME CRISIS OF MISSING AND MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND RELATIVES.
AND YOU KNOW, A PRESS RELEASE AT THE TIME SAID THIS NEW GROUP WOULD BE WORKING TO SUPPORT THE STATE'S WORK TO CARRY FORWARD RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THE TASK FORCE ISSUED BACK IN 2022.
AND THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS REALLY COVERED A WHOLE WIDE RANGE OF ISSUES FROM AFFECTED FAMILIES FEELING DISMISSED BY POLICE, TO CONFUSION OVER JURISDICTION.
AND IN THAT SAME PRESS RELEASE THE GOVERNOR SAID THAT THIS NEW COUNCIL'S WORK WOULD HELP BRING MISSING NATIVE PEOPLE HOME, GIVE FAMILIES CLOSURE, AND PREVENT OTHER FAMILIES FROM EXPERIENCING THIS SAME KIND OF LOSS.
AND YOU KNOW, I THINK JUST FOR SOME CONTEXT, THERE'S A LACK OF KIND OF DETAILED DATA HERE WE'RE DEALING WITH FOR A FEW DIFFERENT REASONS, BUT WE DO KNOW THAT INDIGENOUS PEOPLE DISPROPORTIONATELY GOING MISSING AND BEING MURDERED IS A CRISIS THAT'S BEEN DEEPLY AFFECTING NATIVE COMMUNITIES FOR GENERATIONS.
AND IT'S AN ISSUE IN OUR STATE IN PARTICULAR TOO.
SO, THAT'S WHAT THIS NEW ADVISORY COUNCIL WAS MEANT TO BE HELPING TO ADDRESS.
>> Jeff: GOTCHA.
SO, SPEAKING OF THE COUNCIL, I READ YOUR NEW MEXICO IN DEPTH STORY LAST MONTH UNDER THE HEADLINE, PUBLIC NOT ALLOWED IN MEETINGS OF STATE ADVISORY COUNCIL ON MISSING AND MURDERED INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.
SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD HEADLINE, BUT CAN YOU TELL US A LITTLE BIT MORE OF WHAT YOU LEARNED DURING THE COURSE OF REPORTING THAT STORY?
>> Davis: YEAH, AT THIS POINT IT'S BEEN EIGHT MONTHS SINCE THE GOVERNOR MADE HER ANNOUNCEMENT THAT SHE WAS CREATING THIS COUNCIL.
THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE HAS SAID THAT THE COUNCIL HAS MET ONCE.
THAT WAS BACK IN MARCH TO KIND OF ORGANIZE THEMSELVES.
I MOST RECENTLY CHECKED IN FOR AN UPDATE ON ALL OF THAT IN MID-JULY WITH THE INDIAN AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT, WHICH HAS PLAYED A REALLY BIG ROLE IN THE STATE'S WORK ON THIS CRISIS.
YOU KNOW, THEY HOUSED THE PREVIOUS TASK FORCE BEFORE IT WAS DISBANDED.
AND THEY HAVE SAID THAT THEY'RE ALSO IN COORDINATION WITH THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE SELECTING MEMBERS FOR THIS NEW COUNCIL.
SO, I CHECKED IN WITH THEM A FEW WEEKS AGO, AND SIMPLY ASKED DOES THE COUNCIL HAVE A MEETING SCHEDULED.
AND I NEVER ACTUALLY GOT A RESPONSE TO THAT QUESTION.
AND INSTEAD, THE RESPONSE THAT I DID GET WAS THAT ADVISORY COUNCILS AREN'T SUBJECT TO THE STATE OPEN MEETINGS ACT, WHICH MEANS THAT THEY'RE NOT LEGALLY REQUIRED TO MEET PUBLICLY.
THEY COULD, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE TO.
SO THE DEPARTMENT TOLD ME THAT THE COUNCIL WILL NOT BE MEETING PUBLICLY, BUT WILL SHARE UPDATES AT SEPARATE COMMUNITY MEETINGS THAT THE DEPARTMENT HAS BEEN HOSTING.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, THAT RESPONSE REALLY KIND OF CAUGHT MY ATTENTION.
IT WASN'T WHAT I WAS ANTICIPATING WHEN I FIRST REACHED OUT.
I WAS, YOU KNOW, THINKING OR MAYBE ASSUMING THAT THE MEETINGS WOULD BE PUBLIC AND THAT I WOULD JUST COVER THEM AS THEY CAME UP.
SO, I ASKED SOME FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS, AND THE DEPARTMENT TOLD ME THAT THE COUNCIL DECIDED TO NOT MEET PUBLICLY BECAUSE THIS IS A SENSITIVE ISSUE AND THEY FELT THERE'S A NEED FOR PRIVACY AND HANDLING AND TALKING ABOUT CERTAIN CASES.
BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT TASK FORCES ARE ALSO NOT COVERED BY THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT, BUT BEFORE BEING DISBANDED THE TASK FORCE DID HAVE REGULAR PUBLIC MEETINGS.
>> Jeff: YOU WROTE STORIES FROM SOME OF THOSE MEETINGS.
>> Davis: I DID.
I DID.
YEAH, SO THAT WAS KIND OF HOW THIS MOST RECENT REPORTING SORT OF GOT STARTED.
>> Jeff: HOW DID THE NEW MEXICO FOUNDATION FOR OPEN GOVERNMENT, AND MAYBE EVEN SOME OF YOUR OTHER SOURCES, REACT TO THAT REPORTING?
>> Davis: YEAH, SO THE FOUNDATION'S DIRECTOR, MELANIE MAJORS, TOLD ME THAT WITHOUT QUESTION SHE THINKS THAT IT IS A PROBLEM THAT THE COUNCIL ISN'T MEETING PUBLICLY.
YOU KNOW, SHE MADE THE POINT THAT MMIWR AND HOW THE STATE IS RESPONDING TO IT ARE ABSOLUTELY MATTERS OF PUBLIC INTEREST.
SO, THAT MEANS THAT THE PUBLIC SHOULD BE ABLE TO LISTEN IN DIRECTLY WHAT'S BEING DISCUSSED RATHER THAN HAVING TO RELY ON UPDATES AT SEPARATE MEETINGS.
AND YOU KNOW, I THINK FOR ME ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT REALLY CAME TO MIND WHEN I GOT THAT RESPONSE FROM THE INDIAN AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT WAS LAST FALL, ABOUT A WEEK AFTER WE PUBLISHED OUR STORY ABOUT THE TASK FORCE BEING DISBANDED, A GROUP OF AFFECTED FAMILIES WHO HAVE LOST LOVED ONES TO THIS CRISIS AND OTHER ADVOCATES WENT UP TO SANTA FE TO THE ROUNDHOUSE TO PROTEST THE GOVERNOR'S DECISION.
AND A SPOKESPERSON FOR THE GOVERNOR ENDED UPCOMING OUT TO MEET WITH THEM AND APOLOGIZED FOR THE LACK OF COMMUNICATION, AND REALLY TRANSPARENCY FROM THE ADMINISTRATION ABOUT THE STATE'S PLANS GOING FORWARD.
AND YOU KNOW, TOLD THE PROTESTERS THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THE ADMINISTRATION COULD HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB AT.
YOU KNOW, I THINK AT THAT TIME THERE WAS A LOT OF HURT AROUND KIND OF THIS DECISION THAT WAS MADE QUIETLY TO SHUTTER THE TASK FORCE.
AND I THINK THAT GOES TO EVERY AFFECTED FAMILY THAT I'VE TALKED WITH HAS TOLD ME ABOUT FEELING, YOU KNOW LIKE I MENTIONED EARLIER, DISMISSED BY POLICE.
HAVING POLICE BLAME THEIR LOVED ONES FOR WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM.
YOU KNOW, NOT TAKE THEIR REPORTS SERIOUSLY.
AND SO, I THINK THERE'S THIS FEELING THAT, YOU KNOW, AT EVERY TURN THEY'RE BEING DISMISSED, THEY'RE BEING IGNORED.
>> Jeff: AND SORT OF HERE WE GO AGAIN.
>> Davis: EXACTLY.
YEAH, HERE WE ARE NOW EIGHT MONTHS LATER, AND WE HAVE A PUBLIC AGENCY SAYING THAT MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC AND INCLUDING THOSE SAME AFFECTED FAMILIES WHO WENT AND PROTESTED, WON'T ABLE TO LISTEN DIRECTLY ON WHAT THIS COUNCIL IS DISCUSSING.
AND THIS COUNCIL THAT IS HAVING DISCUSSIONS THAT COULD END UP INFORMING POLICY.
THEY'RE MEANT TO BE -- A BIG PART OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS ADVISING THE GOVERNOR AND OTHER PUBLIC OFFICIALS.
>> Jeff: YEAH.
SO, A FEW DAYS AFTER THE STORY WE'VE JUST BEEN TALKING ABOUT HERE, I READ ANOTHER TROUBLING PIECE UNDER YOUR BYLINE AT NEW MEXICO IN DEPTH WITH THE HEADLINE, WHO'S ON NEW MEXICO'S MMIP ADVISORY COUNCIL, IT'S UNCLEAR.
BELLA, WHAT THE HELL?
>> Davis: GOOD QUESTION.
YEAH, ABOUT MAYBE SIX OR SEVEN HOURS AFTER WE PUBLISHED THAT STORY I GOT AN EMAIL FROM ONE OF THE SUPPOSED MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL.
IN THAT STORY ABOUT THE COUNCIL NOT MEETING PUBLICLY, WE INCLUDED A LIST OF FIVE MEMBERS AND TWO CHAIRS OF THE COUNCIL THAT WE GOT FROM THE INDIAN AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT.
AND ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE LISTED, DON BEGAY, WHO USED TO BE THE NATIVE AMERICAN AFFAIRS COORDINATOR FOR THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE, EMAILED ME AND SAID SHE IS NOT AND HAS NOT BEEN A MEMBER OF THE COUNCIL.
SHE TOLD ME THAT SHE WAS INVITED BUT NEVER SUBMITTED THE REQUIRED PAPERWORK.
AND SO AT THAT POINT I STARTED WORKING THROUGH THE LIST AND TRYING TO CONFIRM WITH INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE WHETHER THEY WERE ACTUALLY ON THE COUNCIL.
AND IN DOING THAT I FOUND A SECOND PERSON WHO WAS NAMED TOO WHO SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ON THE LIST.
THAT WAS NAVAJO NATION POLICE COMMANDER DARYL NOON.
I HEARD BACK FROM A SPOKESPERSON FOR THE NAVAJO POLICE WHO TOLD ME THAT COMMANDER NOON WAS INVITED TO BE ON THE COUNCIL AND DID ACTUALLY SUBMIT THE REQUIRED PAPERWORK, BUT JUST NEVER HEARD BACK.
AND YOU KNOW, SO AT THAT POINT IT LEFT US WITH THREE MEMBERS AND TWO CHAIRS AND I HEARD BACK FROM ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE, TIFFANY JIRON, WHO'S THE DIRECTOR OF THE COALITION TO STOP VIOLENCE AGAINST NATIVE WOMEN.
AND SHE TOLD ME SHE IS A MEMBER.
AND, YOU KNOW, I WAS ASKING THE INDIAN AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT, THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, WHY MS. BEGAY AND COMMANDER NOON WERE INCLUDED ON THAT LIST, AND WHETHER THE OTHER PEOPLE ON THAT LIST WERE IN FACT ON THE COUNCIL.
AND AT THE TIME OF PUBLISHING THAT SECOND STORY HADN'T GOTTEN ANY RESPONSE.
>> Jeff: SO THE COUNCIL HAS MET ONCE.
WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THEY DID BECAUSE THEY DID IT IN SECRET AND WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHO IS ON THE COUNCIL, AT THIS POINT.
INTERESTING.
I CANNOT IMAGINE THAT THIS CRISIS HAS ABATED OR GONE AWAY IN THE YEARS SINCE YOU STARTED REPORTING ON IT FOR NEW MEXICO IN DEPTH IN 2022.
I WONDER, IS ANYTHING ELSE BEING DONE AT THE STATE LEVEL TO ADDRESS THIS?
>> Davis: YEAH, SO EARLIER THIS YEAR, AT THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION, THE LEGISLATURE PASSED A PIECE OF LEGISLATION CALLING ON THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO CREATE A NEW MMIWR TASK FORCE.
AND THEY INCLUDED SOME MONEY IN THE STATE BUDGET FOR THAT PURPOSE.
AND ATTORNEY GENERAL TORREZ HAS SAID THAT HE PLANS TO DO THAT.
AND I LAST CHECKED IN WITH HIS OFFICE A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, AND THEY SAID THEY'RE STILL IN THE PROCESS OF ACCEPTING NOMINATIONS FROM THE LEGISLATURE AND TRIBAL LEADERS.
SO, I'LL DEFINITELY BE KEEPING AN EYE ON THAT.
AND THEN, ALSO THE INDIAN AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT HAS SAID THAT THEY ARE GOING TO START TRYING TO HIRE TWO EMPLOYEES PRETTY SOON TO FOCUS ON MMIWR.
THEY REQUESTED FUNDING EARLIER THIS YEAR FOR FOUR NEW EMPLOYEES TO FOCUS ON THE CRISIS, AND REALLY START TO FORM WHAT WAS AT ONE POINT REFERRED TO AS A BUREAU FOR MMIWR WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT, BUT THEY ENDED UP NOT GETTING ALL THE FUNDING.
THE RATIONALE KIND OF GIVEN BY THE LEGISLATURE WAS THAT THE DEPARTMENT HAD A PRETTY HIGH VACANCY RATE, SO SHOULD USE THEIR EXISTING PERSONNEL BUDGET TO STAFF UP THAT NEW BUREAU.
SO, THEY ENDED UP GETTING FUNDING FOR ONE NEW EMPLOYEE, AND SO THEY SAID THEY'RE GOING TO BE TRYING TO HIRE FOR THAT POSITION AND THEN ALSO THEIR LEAD MMIP COORDINATOR LEFT THE DEPARTMENT EARLIER THIS YEAR.
AND THAT WAS ONE THING THEY'VE MENTIONED.
THEY'VE SINCE RESPONDED AFTER WE PUBLISHED THAT SECOND STORY, AND THEY'VE SAID THAT THE DEPARTMENT HAS BEEN KIND OF IN TRANSITION THIS YEAR WITH THAT LEAD COORDINATOR LEAVING, AND HAVING A NEW CABINET SECRETARY COMING IN, SO THEY'VE SAID THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE TRYING TO LOOK FOR TWO NEW EMPLOYEES.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S ALSO WORTH NOTING, EVEN THOUGH THIS ISN'T AT THE STATE LEVEL, THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, INDIGENOUS COMMUNITY ORGANIZERS, SERVICE PROVIDERS, NONPROFITS, WHO ARE DOING THIS WORK EVERY DAY.
CONFRONTING THIS CRISIS ON MULTIPLE FRONTS.
WHETHER THAT'S HELPING TO DEVELOP POLICY, OR CONNECTING AFFECTED FAMILIES WITH RESOURCES.
>> Jeff: BELLA DAVIS, THANK YOU FOR CONTINUING TO SHINE A LIGHT ON THESE CRITICAL ISSUES, AND FOR SHARING SOME OF YOUR WORK WITH OUR AUDIENCE.
>> Davis: THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.
>> Jeff: THE ACLU HAS GROWN AND EVOLVED SINCE THE TURN OF THE LAST CENTURY.
AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR PETER SIMONSON HAS HAD A FRONT-ROW SEAT TO THOSE CHANGES.
INCLUDING THE ORGANIZATIONS DECISION TO BE MORE SELECTIVE WHEN DEFENDING FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS FOLLOWING THE DEADLY WHITE SUPREMACIST RALLY IN CHARLOTTESVILLE, VIRGINIA, IN 2017.
DURING THE FIRST HALF OF OUR CONVERSATION LAST WEEK, PETER LOOKED BACK AT A NUMBER OF ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ACLU OF NEW MEXICO.
TODAY, WE PICK UP WHERE WE LEFT OFF AND CONSIDER HOW THE ORGANIZATION HAS CHANGED SINCE PETER TOOK THE JOB IN 2000.
AND A QUICK NOTE FOR VIEWERS, THIS INTERVIEW WAS RECORDED BEFORE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN DROPPED OUT OF THE RACE.
I WANT TO SHIFT FOCUS A LITTLE BIT AND TALK ABOUT THE ORGANIZATION, ABOUT THE ACLU.
I THINK SOMETIMES ABOUT THIS KIND OF CHEESY AARON SORKIN MOVIE CALLED THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT.
MAYBE YOU'VE SEEN THE MOVIE.
ANYWAY, RICHARD DREYFUSS PLAYS A REPUBLICAN SENATOR WHO'S RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, AND HE'S RUNNING AGAINST THE INCUMBENT, A LIBERAL DEMOCRAT PLAYED BY MICHAEL DOUGLAS.
HE'S POUNDING ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL BY CALLING HIM A QUOTE, "CARD-CARRYING MEMBER OF THE ACLU," AS IF THAT'S SOME SORT OF A CUDGEL OR A DIRTY WORD, OR A DIRTY PHRASE.
AT THE END OF THE MOVIE DOUGLAS'S CHARACTER MAKES A SPEECH IN WHICH HE COPS TO THE ALLEGATION.
HE IS A MEMBER OF THE ACLU.
AND HE TURNS IT BACK ON DREYFUSS AND SAYS, WHY AREN'T YOU A MEMBER OF AN ORGANIZATION WHOSE SOLE PURPOSE IS TO DEFEND THE BILL OF RIGHTS.
SO, I WANT TO ASK, PETER, IS THAT STILL THE ACLU'S SOLE PURPOSE, TO DEFEND THE BILL OF RIGHTS?
>> Simonson: NO.
I MEAN -- WELL, YES, OF COURSE.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE USE THE BILL OF RIGHTS AS THE TOOL TO ACHIEVE AN ADVANCEMENT OF JUSTICE, LIBERTY AND EQUITY IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO.
THAT IS HOW WE DESCRIBE OUR MISSION.
BUT THE BILL OF RIGHTS ISN'T THE END, ISN'T THE FINAL PRODUCT THAT WE'RE AFTER, RIGHT?
LIKE THAT IS THE TOOL TO TRY TO ACHIEVE A BETTER SOCIETY IN THE LONG TERM.
I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, HISTORICALLY, THE ORGANIZATION HAS SEEN, IN FACT FOR A LONG TIME, SORT OF AN ADVERTISING LOGO OR MOTTO WAS THAT THE BILL OF RIGHTS IS THE ACLU'S CLIENT.
WE SEE THE BILL OF RIGHTS AS OUR CLIENT.
I THINK THESE DAYS WE'RE PROBABLY A LITTLE MORE WORLDLY IN THE WAY WE VIEW THE IMPORTANCE OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS.
IT'S AN IMPERFECT INSTRUMENT TO BE SURE, TO TRY TO ADVOCATE FOR JUSTICE AND EQUITY AND LIBERTY, BUT IT'S A TOOL THAT MANY -- THAT DOESN'T EXIST IN MANY COUNTRIES.
AND IT'S AN INCREDIBLE TOOL TO TRY TO ACHIEVE THOSE OUTCOMES.
SO, YOU KNOW, FIRST AMENDMENT, FREE SPEECH, RELIGIOUS LIBERTY, RELIGIOUS ESTABLISHMENT, THOSE ARE ALL OUR BREAD AND BUTTER ISSUES STILL NOW AS THEY ALWAYS HAVE BEEN OVER THE MORE THAN A 100-YEAR HISTORY OF THE ORGANIZATION.
BUT I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT WE CARRY OUT THAT MISSION MORE AND MORE WITH AN EYE TO WHAT ARE THE REAL NEEDS OF OUR COMMUNITY.
PARTICULARLY, THE NEEDS OF COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN HISTORICALLY DISENFRANCHISED.
COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE TRADITIONALLY NOT REALLY HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO EVEN ENJOY THE REALITIES OF -- OR THE PROMISES OF OUR BILL OF RIGHTS.
>> Jeff: THAT'S ANOTHER GOOD SEGUE.
I WANT TO ASK, IN THE QUARTER OF A CENTURY YOU'VE BEEN DOING THIS WORK, HOW HAVE THE ORGANIZATION'S RESOURCES, CHALLENGES, AND PRIORITIES CHANGED?
>> Simonson: BOY, A BIG QUESTION.
YOU KNOW, THE ORGANIZATION HAS -- I'LL START HERE.
THE ORGANIZATION HAS GROWN DRAMATICALLY.
WE HAVE HAD THE GOOD FORTUNE -- WE LIVE IN A SMALL STATE POPULATION-WISE.
WE LIVE IN A RESOURCE-POOR STATE, AND NEVERTHELESS WE HAVE A COMMUNITY OF SUPPORTERS IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO THAT I WOULD PUT UP AGAINST ANY OTHER COMMUNITY IN THE COUNTRY.
AND IT'S BECAUSE OF THEIR GENEROSITY BECAUSE OF THEIR PASSION FOR JUSTICE THAT WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO BUILD AN ORGANIZATION THAT IS A TRUE POWERHOUSE, EVEN COMPARED TO MOST OTHER AFFILIATES IN STATES OF OUR SIZE OR EVEN LARGER IN THE COUNTRY.
WE'VE GROWN FROM AN ORGANIZATION OF ROUGHLY THREE OR FOUR STAFF WHEN I STARTED, TO AN ORGANIZATION OF OVER 30 STAFF.
WE HAVE EIGHT, NINE, TEN LAWYERS ON STAFF WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, WHO ARE CURRENTLY CARRYING OUT 30 OR 40 DIFFERENT LEGAL ACTIONS.
SOME OF THEM VERY CONSEQUENTIAL WITH SYSTEMIC IMPACT.
SOME OF THEM THAT ARE GOING TO HAVE DRAMATIC IMPACT JUST FOR A SOLE FAMILY WHO MAYBE LOST A LOVED ONE TO POLICE VIOLENCE.
SO, THE CAPACITY OF THE ORGANIZATION HAS JUST INCREASED EXPONENTIALLY.
I JUST HAVE TO SAY PERSONALLY IT'S BEEN -- IT'S SO REWARDING TO HAVE SEEN THAT GROWTH, AND TO HAVE HELPED THAT GROWTH HAPPEN.
BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT IT MEANS FOR OUR STATE.
PRIORITY-WISE, MANY OF THE PRIORITIES HAVE REMAINED THE SAME.
LIKE NEW MEXICO HAS ALWAYS BEEN A WELCOMING PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO RECEIVE REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE, PARTICULARLY COMPARED TO THE STATES THAT WE'RE SANDWICHED BETWEEN, ARIZONA AND TEXAS.
AND THAT IS MORE TRUE NOW THAN IT EVER HAS BEEN IN OUR HISTORY.
WE'VE BEEN A PLACE THAT'S BEEN GENERALLY MORE WELCOMING TO IMMIGRANT FAMILIES THAN THE STATES THAT SURROUND US.
AND YET, WE STILL SEE MAJOR CONFLICTS THERE.
WE HAVE TO FIGHT FOR THOSE RIGHTS EACH AND EVERY DAY.
LIKE CIVIL LIBERTIES ARE NEVER WON, THEY'RE ONLY -- THOSE BATTLES ARE FOUGHT AND REFOUGHT AGAIN AND AGAIN.
SO, OUR PRIORITIES HAVE REMAINED RELATIVELY CONSTANT OVER TIME, I WOULD SAY.
THE ONLY OTHER ONE BETWEEN IMMIGRANT RIGHTS, AGAIN, PROTECTING ACCESS TO ABORTION CARE AND OTHER REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE, CERTAINLY THE FACT THAT WE HERE IN NEW MEXICO HAVE AN UNUSUALLY LARGE PERCENTAGE OF OUR POPULATION THAT'S INCARCERATED.
AND THAT PHENOMENON MOSTLY AFFECTS PEOPLE OF COLOR, PARTICULARLY INDIGENOUS FOLKS.
BLACK PEOPLE, THEY TEND TO MAKE UP THE LARGE -- A DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBER OF FOLKS SERVING TIME COMPARED TO WHAT THE POPULATION IS IN THE COMMUNITY.
SO, THAT CONTINUES TO BE ONE OF OUR PRIORITIES.
AND MAKING SURE THAT OUR CORRECTIONS SYSTEM IS NOT JUST AN INDUSTRY OF ABUSE TO PEOPLE THAT ARE INCARCERATED.
YOU KNOW, WE HAVE, IN SOME CASES, VERY HORRENDOUS CONDITIONS IN OUR PRISONS.
AND TRYING TO PROTECT PEOPLE AS MUCH AS WE CAN.
WE CAN'T DO EVERYTHING WE WOULD WANT TO DO BECAUSE THE ABUSES ARE SO RIFE, BUT WE DO WHAT WE CAN.
SO THOSE REMAIN KEY PRIORITIES.
THE ONE PLACE WHERE I THINK OUR PRIORITIES HAVE REALLY CHANGED AND SHIFTED HAS BEEN IN THE AREA OF INDIGENOUS JUSTICE.
YOU KNOW, I'M SORT OF SAD TO SAY THAT HISTORICALLY WE AS A STATE ACLU AFFILIATE HAVE NOT DONE EVERYTHING THAT WE MIGHT HAVE DONE OVER THE YEARS ON BEHALF OF INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.
AND FOR ROUGHLY THE LAST SIX YEARS NOW, WE HAVE BEEN REALLY MORE COMMITTED TO THAT CAUSE.
THAT'S A TREND HAPPENING NATIONALLY, BY THE WAY, AND WE HAPPEN TO BE ON THE FOREFRONT OF THAT TREND WITHIN THE NATIONAL ACLU.
BUT I'M VERY HAPPY TO SAY THAT WE'RE NOW REALLY TRYING TO FIND WAYS TO BE AS -- TO ADD AS MUCH VALUE TO THE EFFORTS THAT ARE ALREADY GOING ON IN THE GROUND.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO LEAD THOSE EFFORTS, BUT WE'RE GOING TO BE AS SUPPORTIVE AS POSSIBLE.
AND I CAN CERTAINLY CITE EXAMPLES OF SOME OF THE WORK WE'VE DONE THERE.
>> Jeff: I'D LIKE TO RETURN FOR JUST A MOMENT TO THE FIRST AMENDMENT.
OBVIOUSLY, I DON'T GET TO DO THE WORK THAT I'VE DONE FOR THE LAST 22 YEARS IN NEW MEXICO WITHOUT THAT.
THE ACLU HISTORICALLY HAS BEEN THE BASTION OF THE PROTECTION OF FREE SPEECH, FREE EXPRESSION.
YOU KNOW, THE ACLU REPRESENTED NAZIS IN SKOKIE IN THE '70s.
THEIR FREE SPEECH RIGHTS.
AND I CAN CITE A MILLION OTHER EXAMPLES JUST LIKE THAT ONE.
BUT THE ONE FROM MORE RECENT MEMORY THAT REALLY STICKS OUT FOR ME WAS IN 2017 IN CHARLOTTESVILLE, VIRGINIA, WHEN THE ACLU HELPED ESSENTIALLY A GROUP OF WHITE SUPREMACISTS GET A PERMIT TO HOLD THAT RALLY, AND OF COURSE A YOUNG WOMAN WAS KILLED.
I WONDER WAS THE ORGANIZATION CHASTENED BY THE EVENTS OF THAT DAY IN 2017?
>> Simonson: I WOULDN'T SAY CHASTENED.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT ADJECTIVE.
I WOULD SAY IT DEFINITELY GENERATED QUITE A BIT OF DEBATE WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION.
AND YOU KNOW, KEEP IN MIND THAT OVER THAT VERY TIME THE ORGANIZATION NATIONALLY AND WITHIN OUR OWN AFFILIATE WAS BECOMING MUCH MORE DIVERSE RACIALLY AND OTHERWISE.
SO, QUESTIONS LIKE THAT RESOUND DIFFERENTLY THROUGH AN ORGANIZATION THAT IS, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU A LARGE PROPORTION, EVEN 50% OR MORE OF STAFF, WHO ARE PEOPLE OF COLOR.
I THINK THEY FEEL THOSE QUESTIONS MORE INTIMATELY THAN SOME OF THE TRADITIONAL LEADERS OF THE ORGANIZATION.
SO, IT HAS GENERATED A FAIR AMOUNT OF DEBATE WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION.
IT'S CAUSED US AS A STATE AFFILIATE TO STEP BACK AND SORT OF REFLECT ON HOW WOULD WE RESPOND IN A SIMILAR MOMENT AND TO CREATE SOME SPECIFIC CRITERIA FOR DECIDING HOW WOULD WE REACT TO A MOMENT LIKE THAT.
IN WHAT CASES WOULD WE ACTUALLY WEIGH IN ON BEHALF OF A GROUP OF A -- OF A GROUP THAT WAS PROMULGATING HATE SPEECH.
AND TO THE DETRIMENT OF COMMUNITIES THAT WE TRADITIONALLY WANT TO BE HELPING AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
THAT WE WANT TO BE ALLIES WITH.
I THINK WE'RE MUCH BETTER SITUATED TO RESPOND TO ONE OF THOSE MOMENTS.
WE HAVEN'T HAD THOSE MOMENTS IN RECENT HISTORY THAT I CAN REMEMBER.
BUT I THINK THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT NEED TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION.
YOU KNOW, LIKE, THIS IS A GROUP THAT HAS A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE, AND DO WE WANT TO BE WORKING DIRECTLY WITH GROUPS THAT ARE ACTUALLY THREATENING VIOLENCE EVEN WHILE THEY'RE EXERCISING THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS.
ARE THESE GROUPS -- IS THE QUESTION AT HAND ONE THAT IS GOING TO CREATE SOME SORT OF IMPORTANT PRECEDENT AS IT CONCERNS FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS.
IN OUR COURTS, IS THIS A GROUP THAT CAN GET ITS OWN LEGAL COUNSEL AND HAS PERFECTLY THE RESOURCES NECESSARY TO DO THAT.
>> Jeff: THAT DOESN'T NEED YOUR HELP, ESSENTIALLY.
>> Simonson: EXACTLY.
THAT DOESN'T NEED OUR HELP.
SO THOSE ARE THE QUESTIONS THAT WE COULD CONSIDER IN MAKING A DECISION IN THOSE KINDS OF INSTANCES.
I SHOULD ALSO SAY, LIKE, YOU KNOW THE NATIONAL OFFICE MAKES ITS DECISIONS ABOUT MOMENTS LIKE THAT AND QUESTIONS THAT COME UP, AND IT'S A NATIONAL ORGANIZATION.
IT'S SITUATED A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY THAN WE HERE ON THE GROUND, WHO HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO THE COMMUNITIES THAT SURROUND US.
TO THE COMMUNITIES THAT WE'RE FRANKLY A PART OF.
SO, I THINK IT ALSO LANDS WITH US A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY WHEN THOSE MOMENTS COME UP.
>> Jeff: ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THE PROCESS THAT'S IN PLACE NOW FOR LIKE VETTING, SCREENING, FIGURING OUT WE WANT TO GET IN THERE ON THIS ONE, THIS ONE WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A PASS ON?
IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S A LOT OF INTERNAL SOUL SEARCHING FOR LACK OF A BETTER CLICH .
BUT ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THE PROCESS THAT'S IN PLACE NOW TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS?
>> Simonson: YEAH.
I FEEL REALLY GOOD ABOUT IT.
WE HAD A VERY THOUGHTFUL CONVERSATION AMONG BOARD AND STAFF THAT ACTUALLY RESULTED IN A FORMAL POLICY AND SET A CRITERIA THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED IN THAT KIND OF A MOMENT.
SO, I THINK WE'RE REALLY SET UP PRETTY WELL FOR RESPONDING TO A SITUATION LIKE THAT AND MAKING A GOOD DECISION.
WHETHER THAT BE TO GO AHEAD AND REPRESENT A PARTICULAR GROUP, OR TO NOT.
>> Jeff: ANOTHER SHIFT THAT I FEEL LIKE I HAVE OBSERVED AT THE ACLU IN RECENT YEARS, I THINK WE'VE BEEN HERE FOR 25 MINUTES OR SO AND WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT DONALD TRUMP YET, I'M SURE WE'LL GET THERE.
BUT ONE THING -- A SHIFT THAT I NOTICED IN ADDITION TO THE CIVIL LIBERTIES AND CIVIL RIGHTS WORK, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE ACLU HAS ALSO ADDED THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY TO Y'ALL'S DOCKET.
DO I HAVE THAT RIGHT?
>> Simonson: WELL, WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN STRONGLY COMMITTED TO PROTECTING ACCESS TO THE FRANCHISE.
OBVIOUSLY, IT'S A KEY AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION.
WE'VE DONE -- HERE IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO, WE'VE COLLABORATED WITH OUR OTHER ALLIES.
COMMON CAUSE, NATIVE AMERICAN EDUCATION VOTING -- I'M SORRY.
NAVA.
AND YOU KNOW, THE WORK THAT WE'VE TYPICALLY DONE, WE'VE NOT TYPICALLY LED ON THOSE EFFORTS, BUT WE HAVE SUPPORTED IN THOSE EFFORTS AND GIVEN THAT SORT OF, I THINK, OUR BAILIWICK IN THE COMMUNITY TENDS TO BE SORT OF ON THE LEGAL END.
SO, WHEN WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO PROVIDE LEGAL SUPPORT FOR ELECTION PROTECTION, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE FOUND OUR NICHE.
AND CERTAINLY NATIONALLY, WE'VE ALWAYS HAD A VOTING RIGHTS PROJECT.
THEY'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT CASES THAT HAVE DETERMINED THE CONTOURS OF VOTING RIGHTS IN THE COUNTRY.
I WOULDN'T SAY IT'S A NEW PLACE FOR US TO BE.
BUT CERTAINLY, IT'S A GROWING AREA, GIVEN ALL THE ASSAULTS ON VOTING RIGHTS.
YOU KNOW, THE DEMANDS FOR VOTER I.D.
AND THEN EFFORTS TO TRY TO ROLL BACK THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT.
LIKE, NATURALLY WE FOUND OURSELVES MOVING MORE AND MORE INTO THOSE SPACES.
AND YOU KNOW, HERE IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO, WE CHALLENGE THE ALBUQUERQUE VOTER I.D.
LAW RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE.
AND WHEN THOSE MOMENTS COME UP, WE'LL DEFINITELY BE THERE TO RESPOND.
>> Jeff: AS WE TALKED ABOUT AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS CONVERSATION, SIGNIFICANT FREEDOMS HAVE BEEN LOST.
WHETHER THAT'S ROE VERSUS WADE, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTIONS, OR A NUMBER OF OTHER THINGS YOU CAN THINK OF.
WHAT I'M CURIOUS ABOUT IS WHAT CAN PEOPLE WHO ARE WATCHING THIS DO TO DEFEND THEIR OWN CIVIL RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES, AND EVERYBODY ELSE'S?
>> Simonson: YEAH, I KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO ASK THIS QUESTION, SO I'VE GIVEN IT SOME THOUGHT.
YOU KNOW, AS I'M THINKING ABOUT THE COMING YEAR, THE ELECTIONS, I'M THINKING A LOT ABOUT OUR NEED TO, AS AN ORGANIZATION, STEP BACK AND TAKE A MOMENT TO THINK HOW ARE WE GOING TO PREPARE OURSELVES FOR WHAT MAY COME IN A SECOND TRUMP PRESIDENCY.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK CONCERNS ME IS I HEAR IT IN THE VOICES OF MEMBERS, I HEAR IT IN THE VOICES OF SOME OF OUR FINANCIAL SUPPORTERS, A KIND OF LEVEL OF EXASPERATION AND EVEN DESPAIR THAT WORRIES ME THAT WE COULD SEE FOLKS INSTEAD OF REALLY STEPPING UP AND RESPONDING TO THE MOMENT, PULL BACK AND SORT OF DISASSOCIATE FROM THE POLITICAL REALM.
STOP READING THE NEWS.
PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM THAT.
AND THERE'S -- THAT'S A LEGITIMATE RESPONSE.
I THINK IT'S AN UNDERSTANDABLE RESPONSE, AT LEAST.
AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT A TRUMP PRESIDENCY, DESPITE THE SUPREME COURT RULINGS, DESPITE THE MEDIA PREDICTIONS, IS NOT GOING TO BE A TOTALIZING PRESIDENCY.
IT IS NOT GOING TO -- I DON'T THINK IT WILL SPELL THE END OF DEMOCRACY, AS MANY PEOPLE ARE KIND OF PREDICTING THESE DAYS.
BUT IT IS GOING TO REQUIRE US TO, AS A COMMUNITY, AS COMMUNITIES AROUND THIS COUNTRY, TO STEP UP AND PARTICIPATE IN THE SAME WAY THAT WE DID BACK DURING THE FIRST TRUMP PRESIDENCY.
AND THAT'S GOING TO MEAN SPEAKING OUT.
IT'S GOING TO MEAN LOCKING IN, JOINING IN TO OTHER GROUPS.
WHETHER THAT MEANS SPEAKING OUT IN SOCIAL MEDIA, WRITING LETTERS TO YOUR NEWSPAPER.
WHETHER IT MEANS GETTING INVOLVED IN AN INDIVISIBLE GROUP, OR STARTING AN INDIVISIBLE GROUP, OR BECOMING PART OF ANOTHER ORGANIZATION THAT'S DOING WORK YOU SUPPORT IN A PARTICULAR AREA.
JOINING THE ACLU OF NEW MEXICO.
YOU KNOW, I WOULD ENCOURAGE FOLKS TO GO TO OUR WEBSITE AND SIGN UP TO BE A VOLUNTEER.
WE WILL BE OUT AND TRYING TO RECRUIT AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE IN THE EVENT WE SEE ANOTHER TRUMP PRESIDENCY.
WE'RE ALREADY TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE FOR US TO RESPOND TO VARIOUS SPECIFIC SORTS OF THREATS HERE IN THE STATE.
AND WE'RE GOING TO NEED EVERYBODY BACK BEHIND US AND OUT ON THE STREETS PROTESTING.
YOU KNOW, WHATEVER IT MAY TAKE.
BUT I THINK THAT'S THE WAY -- YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THERE IS SOME NEW, GLAMOROUS, GLITTERING APPROACH TO HOW WE DO THIS.
I THINK WE REACT THE WAY WE DID IN THE LAST TRUMP PRESIDENCY.
KEEP IN MIND, TRUMP OBVIOUSLY WOULD BE IN OFFICE WITH SUPREME COURT RULINGS THAT ARE GOING TO GIVE HIM MORE EXPANSIVE AUTHORITY THAN WHAT HE HAS HAD IN THE PAST, IT DOES APPEAR.
AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT DURING THE FIRST TERM, LIKE ALL THE EFFORTS THAT HE MADE TO TRY TO RECONSTRUCT GOVERNMENT, TRY TO OPPRESS THE IMMIGRANT COMMUNITIES, LIKE THOSE WERE ALL CONTESTED OUTCOMES AT THE END OF THE DAY.
YOU THINK ABOUT THE FAMILY SEPARATION POLICY.
YOU THINK ABOUT THE MUSLIM BAN.
YOU THINK ABOUT THE BORDER WALL.
LIKE ALL OF THOSE EFFORTS WERE AT LEAST WEAKENED, IF NOT DELAYED, IF NOT STOPPED IN THEIR TRACKS.
AND THAT WAS BECAUSE PEOPLE ROSE TO THE MOMENT.
ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE ACLU ROSE TO THE MOMENT.
AND WE'LL HAVE TO DO THAT AGAIN.
I THINK THAT FOLKS SOMETIMES -- LIKE IF IT'S NOT THE SORT OF GLAMOROUS WORK OF EXPANDING CIVIL RIGHTS, EXPANDING CIVIL LIBERTIES, WE FORGET THE IMPORTANCE OF JUST HOLDING THE LINE AND PROTECTING WHAT CURRENTLY EXISTS IN THE COUNTRY.
AND YOU KNOW, WE MAY LOSE SOME GROUND UNDER A NEW TRUMP PRESIDENCY, BUT AT THE SAME TIME THE THINGS WE'RE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO PROTECT ARE GOING TO BE CRITICAL TO KEEPING THIS COUNTRY TO BE WHAT IT HAS BEEN OVER MULTIPLE CENTURIES NOW.
THINGS LIKE FREEDOM OF THE PRESS, THINGS LIKE REPRESENTATIVE FORM OF GOVERNMENT.
THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE'RE GOING TO BE FIGHTING FOR.
AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE CRITICAL BECAUSE TO HAVE THOSE THINGS PUT ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK, ALL OF OUR LIVES WILL CHANGE QUALITATIVELY.
IT IS WORTH STEPPING UP AND PUTTING OUT THE ENERGY AGAIN JUST THE WAY WE DID UNDER THE FIRST TRUMP PRESIDENCY.
>> Jeff: RIGHT NOW, MOST OF THAT STUFF IS STILL STANDING.
I THINK I GENERALLY AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAID.
THERE WAS A HOLLOWING OUT CERTAINLY, AND ALL SORTS OF OTHER HORRORS.
BUT THE INSTITUTIONS BY AND LARGE SURVIVED.
IN ANY CASE, PETER SIMONSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION OF NEW MEXICO, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE CHAT.
>> Simonson: THANK YOU.
>> Jeff: LET'S RETURN TO MEGAN KAMERICK'S CONVERSATION AT THE ROUNDTABLE ABOUT NUCLEAR ISSUES THAT HAVE LONG TROUBLED OUR STATE.
NEW MEXICO IS THE ONLY STATE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT BOTH PRODUCES NEW NUCLEAR WEAPONS AND STORES NUCLEAR WASTE.
IN THIS SECOND HALF OF THEIR DISCUSSION, THE TABLE CONSIDERS HOW THE STATE'S NUCLEAR PRODUCTION WILL IMPACT NEW MEXICANS FOR GENERATIONS TO COME.
>> Megan: DON, MEANWHILE THERE ARE PITS FROM DECOMMISSIONED WEAPONS SITTING AT THE PANTEX PLANT IN AMARILLO.
WHERE DOES NEW MEXICO FACTOR INTO THE DISPOSAL OF THOSE?
>> Hancock: SO, THERE HAVE BEEN VARIOUS ITERATIONS OF WHAT THE PLANS HAVE BEEN FOR THAT.
BUT THE CURRENT PLANS ARE TO BRING THE PITS FROM PANTEX TO LOS ALAMOS.
AT LOS ALAMOS TO TURN THEM INTO OXIDE, TO POWDER.
THEN SHIP THE POWDERED PLUTONIUM, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY THE MOST DANGEROUS FORM BECAUSE IT'S EASILY RESPIRABLE, PYROPHORIC AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.
SHIP IT FROM LOS ALAMOS TO SAVANNAH RIVER SITE IN SOUTH CAROLINA, WHERE THEY WOULD PUT A CLASSIFIED MATERIAL WITH IT TO DELUDE IT, TO DELUDE THE PLUTONIUM POWDER THEN SHIP IT BACK TO WIP.
SO YOU HAVE MORE THAN 3,000 MILES OF SHIPPING OF MATERIALS THAT ARGUABLY SHOULDN'T BE SHIPPED AT ALL, BUT CERTAINLY IT MAKES NO SENSE TO DO WHAT THEY'RE DOING.
THAT'S ONE OF THE TWO REASONS THEY WANT TO KEEP WIP OPEN FOR DECADES LONGER THAN IT'S SUPPOSED TO.
THE OTHER IS TO HANDLE WASTE FROM THE NEW PIT PRODUCTION AT BOTH LOS ALAMOS AND SAVANNAH RIVER IN SOUTH CAROLINA.
>> Megan: DOES THAT PLUTONIUM PIT WASTE -- DOES THAT -- A FORM OF WASTE THAT WIP IS SUPPOSED TO BE TAKING?
>> Hancock: NO.
>> Megan: IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE FOR LOW-LEVEL WASTE.
THAT SOUNDS LIKE FAIRLY HIGH-LEVEL WASTE.
>> Hancock: IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE FOR TRANSURANIC WASTE WHICH IS PLUTONIUM CONTAMINATED MATERIALS RATHER THAN PURE PLUTONIUM.
AND THAT'S WHY THEY CAN'T PUT PURE PLUTONIUM INTO WIP.
THAT'S WHY THEY'RE GOING THROUGH -- >> Megan: WHATEVER HAPPENS IN SAVANNAH.
>> Hancock: -- PROCESS OF SHIPPING IT FROM PANTEX TO LOS ALAMOS, LOS ALAMOS TO SAVANNAH RIVER, AND SAVANNAH RIVER TO WIP.
BECAUSE NO, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING.
AND WIP WAS ALSO NOT FOR NEW PLUTONIUM PIT PRODUCTION.
WIP WAS FOR COLD WAR WASTE.
ESSENTIALLY, WASTE THAT WAS GENERATED DURING THE COLD WAR.
SOME PEOPLE WILL REMEMBER THAT THE COLD WAR ENDED IN 1989 WHEN ROCKY FLATS IN COLORADO WAS SHUT DOWN AND THE BERLIN WALL FELL.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT WAS WASTE.
UP UNTIL 1989, THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE GOING TO WIP.
THEY WANT TO KEEP WIP OPEN, WE SAY FOREVER, BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY THEY DON'T HAVE AN END WAY FOR WIP'S OPERATION.
SO, TO PUT ANYTHING THEY WANT INTO IT.
MORE IMPORTANTLY, THEY DON'T WANT TO DEVELOP ANOTHER REPOSITORY.
THE WASTE ISOLATION PILOT PLANT -- >> Megan: PILOT BEING THE KEYWORD.
>> Hancock: -- IN NAME AND IN FUNCTION FOR MANY YEARS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE FIRST OF MULTIPLE GEOLOGIC REPOSITORIES, BUT RATHER THAN DOING OTHER GEOLOGIC REPOSITORIES, THEY WANT TO SAY THEY CAN BRING IT ALL TO NEW MEXICO.
AND THAT'S, FRANKLY, WHAT WILL HAPPEN UNLESS PEOPLE OF NEW MEXICO DO WHAT THEY ARE DOING, SAYING NO, WE DON'T AGREE WITH THAT.
AND STATE OFFICIALS IN NEW MEXICO SAYING NO, WE'RE NOT GOING TO LET YOU DO THAT.
>> Megan: MYRRIAH, DON MENTIONED COLD WAR LEGACY WASTE.
THERE'S STILL QUITE A BIT OF THAT SITTING AT LOS ALAMOS.
>> Gomez: THERE'S STILL WASTE FROM THE MANHATTAN PROJECT SITTING IN LOS ALAMOS.
I MEAN, THE AMOUNT OF WASTE STILL IN LOS ALAMOS BLOWS MOST PEOPLE'S MINDS.
AND I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING THAT MS. ROBERTSON SAID THEY'RE DOING MORE THAN THEY SHOULD BE DOING.
>> Megan: THIS IS CANDICE ROBERTSON WITH DOE'S WASTE MANAGEMENT.
>> Gomez: YEAH.
FROM OEM.
AND SHE SAID THEY'RE DOING MORE THAN THEY SHOULD BE DOING RIGHT NOW.
>> Megan: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
>> Gomez: YEAH, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN IS THE QUESTION.
MOST PEOPLE WHO KNOW OR ARE FAMILIAR WITH AREA G AT LOS ALAMOS AT LANL, YOU CAN SEE IT FROM THE ROAD.
YOU CAN SEE THE TENTS.
THERE ARE INDIGENOUS TEWA SITES, SACRED SITES THAT ARE BUTTING UP AGAINST THAT.
THERE'S A NEW HOUSING DEVELOPMENT THAT SHARES A CHAIN-LINK FENCE.
>> Megan: THEY'RE IN THESE HIGH-TECH TENTS SITTING IN THE SANTA FE NATIONAL FOREST.
SANTA FE?
YES.
>> Gomez: SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IN TERMS OF THINKING ABOUT WASTE AND THE AMOUNTS OF LEGACY WASTE THAT ARE THERE IN LOS ALAMOS, WE'RE TALKING NOW WASTE THAT'S GOING TO SEND US PAST 2083.
THAT'S THE YEAR THAT'S KIND OF BEING THROWN AROUND.
WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT 2083 OR WHAT SOME OF US CONSIDER FOREVER WIP, YOU KNOW FROM 1943 ESSENTIALLY, TO 2083 THAT'S 140 YEARS.
THAT'S SEVEN GENERATIONS OF NEW MEXICANS WHO ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT WASTE.
>> Megan: YOU ARE FROM THE POJOAQUE VALLEY, AND HAVE HAD RELATIVES -- STILL HAVE RELATIVES THAT WORK AT THE LAB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE MANHATTAN PROJECT.
DIRECTOR HRUBY TALKED A LOT ABOUT THERE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF THE LABS AT THE MEETING THAT WAS HELD HERE.
IT'S SIGNIFICANT, 16,000 PEOPLE EMPLOYED AT EACH LAB.
HOW DO YOU SQUARE THIS IN A PLACE THAT DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF HIGH-PAYING JOBS LIKE THAT?
DO YOU WANT TO SEE THE CLOSURE OF THE LABS?
>> Gomez: I MEAN -- THAT'S SUCH A LOADED QUESTION.
YOU KNOW I LOVE TO TALK ABOUT THIS QUESTION BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS TO TALK ABOUT IT.
FOR ONE, LET'S PUT IT IN THE FORM OF EDUCATION.
NEW MEXICO IS STILL 50th IN THE COUNTRY, ACCORDING TO U.S. NEWS AND WORLD REPORT, FOR EDUCATION.
WHY DO WE -- WITH TWO NATIONAL SCIENTIFIC LABORATORIES IN THE STATE, WHY ARE WE LAST IN THE COUNTRY IN EDUCATION?
THAT'S ONE WAY TO THINK ABOUT JOBS, RIGHT?
THE OTHER WAY TO THINK ABOUT JOBS IS THEY'RE TOUTING NEW JOBS.
IT'S ALWAYS THE TOUTING OF NEW JOBS THAT THESE INDUSTRIES ARE GOING TO BRING INTO NEW MEXICO, INCLUDING WITH WIP.
>> Megan: AND THE NEW PIT PRODUCTION.
>> Gomez: AND THE NEW PIT PRODUCTION.
SO, WITH THE NEW PIT PRODUCTION, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE CALLING INTO QUESTION IS THE AGE OF THE FACILITY AND THE SECURITY AND SAFETY OF THAT FACILITY.
WE KNOW WHERE WE'VE HEARD REPORTS RIGHT NOW THAT THERE ARE TOO MANY PEOPLE WORKING IN THAT BUILDING.
MORE PEOPLE THAN SHOULD BE WORKING IN THAT BUILDING.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, THE AGE OF THAT BUILDING IN TERMS OF HOW MANY PEOPLE SHOULD BE THERE, AND THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE JOBS.
WHAT WAS INTERESTING TO ME WITH ADMINISTRATOR HRUBY'S -- IN TERMS OF WHAT SHE HEARD, WHAT SHE ACTUALLY HEARD, ONE OF THE THINGS SHE ACTUALLY CAME BACK TO WAS THE HOUSING SITUATION.
AND THIS IS FASCINATING TO ME BECAUSE A LOT OF THE LOCALS HAVE BEEN PRICED OUT OF BEING ABLE TO BUY -- YOU KNOW, PEOPLE FROM MY GENERATION WHO CAN'T AFFORD HOUSES, WHO CAN'T AFFORD LAND, WHO REALLY CAN'T AFFORD TO RENT IN THAT AREA ANYMORE.
WHEN THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT LABS -- I'M SORRY, JOBS AND HOUSING, THAT'S NOT BEING BROUGHT UP INTO THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT YOU KNOW THE EFFECTS ON THE LOCAL ECONOMY, RIGHT?
THERE'S NO AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
THEY'RE HAVING THAT CONVERSATION IN SANTA FE AS WELL.
SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT JOBS, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I OFTEN SAY IS YES, THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE BEING EMPLOYED BY THE LABS, AND THESE ARE FAMILIES OFTENTIMES WHOSE LIVES HAVE BEEN TRANSFORMED BY THAT ECONOMY AND THOSE ECONOMIC SITUATIONS THAT THEY'RE IN NOW, YOU KNOW, CAN'T REALLY BE CHANGED.
THEY DON'T WANT THEM TO BE CHANGED.
THEY CAN'T GO BACK TO WHAT IT WAS BEFORE, WHICH WAS AN AGRARIAN ECONOMY.
HOWEVER, THAT'S STILL A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF NEW MEXICANS WHO ARE BENEFITTING DIRECTLY OFF OF THE LABS IN THAT WAY.
AND WHAT I OFTEN SAY IS NO, I NEVER SAID SHUT DOWN THE LAB.
WHAT I'VE SAID IS STOP MAKING NUCLEAR WEAPONS AT THE LAB.
WE CAN SWITCH THE MISSION OF THE LAB TO BE DOING LOTS OF DIFFERENT SORTS OF SCIENTIFIC WORK, INCLUDING WORK AROUND CLIMATE CHANGE.
>> Megan: DON, MANY MAY REMEMBER THERE WAS A RADIATION RELEASE IN 2014 AT WIP.
IT SHUT IT DOWN FOR THREE YEARS.
LAST YEAR, STATE OFFICIALS DID RENEW THE PERMIT.
THEY DO HAVE SOME REGULATORY OVERSIGHT, EVEN THOUGH IT'S A FEDERAL FACILITY.
THEY DID PUT CERTAIN CONDITIONS ON RENEWAL.
WHAT ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT ONES?
>> Hancock: SO, THERE ARE THREE THAT I WOULD POINT OUT.
AND THOSE CAME ABOUT, I WOULD SAY, BY THE ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT ACTUALLY LISTENING TO CITIZENS IN TERMS OF THE CONCERNS.
SO I APPRECIATE THE ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT LISTENING.
SO, ONE IS RELATED TO WHAT I MENTIONED EARLIER.
WIP IS THE ONLY REPOSITORY.
AND D.O.E HAS NOT BEEN INTERESTED IN DEVELOPING ANOTHER REPOSITORY.
SO, ONE OF THE NEW PROVISIONS OF THE PERMIT REQUIRES AN ANNUAL REPORT FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY PROVIDING DETAILS AND ENUMERATED THINGS ABOUT THEIR PROGRESS ON CITING ANOTHER REPOSITORY IN A STATE OTHER THAN NEW MEXICO.
SO, THAT'S A FIRST.
THAT'S GOING TO PUSH.
ANOTHER PROVISION RELATES TO THE LEGACY WASTE THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.
IT PRIORITIZES LEGACY WASTE, INCLUDING FROM LOS ALAMOS, TO BE PUT INTO THE NEW ROOMS THAT ARE GOING TO BE MINED AT WIP.
>> Megan: WHICH IS IN A BIG SALT CAVERN UNDERGROUND.
>> Hancock: IT'S UNDERGROUND.
2150 FEET UNDERGROUND EMBEDDED SALT.
THE SALT IS MINED OUT TO CREATE ROOMS TO STACK THE CONTAINERS OF WASTE IN.
THE THIRD PROVISION IS RELATED TO THAT, REQUIRING D.O.E TO DEVELOP, WITH PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT, WHAT'S CALLED A LEGACY WASTE DISPOSAL PLAN.
WHAT IS THE LEGACY WASTE, AND NEW MEXICO AND AT THE OTHER SITES THAT ARE GOING TO SHIP TO WIP, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH IS IT, WHAT'S THE PLAN TO PUT IT INTO WIP.
BECAUSE OUR VIEW IS, AND THE STATE HOPEFULLY IS COMING TO THE VIEW, IS LET'S GET WIP TO BE WHAT THAT MISSION WAS AND IS.
AND IF WE CAN CLEARLY DEFINE WHAT'S LEGACY WASTE AND WHAT'S NOT LEGACY WASTE, THEN THE STATE CAN SAY, OH, WELL WHAT WE'RE GOING TO PERMIT TO COME INTO WIP IS THE LEGACY WASTE, AND YOU ALL CAN FIND SOME PLACE ELSE.
THAT'S WHY YOU NEED TO LOOK FOR ANOTHER REPOSITORY FOR OTHER WASTE.
THAT'S WILL BE A HIGHLY-CONTENTIOUS ISSUE.
WE DON'T THINK OTHERWISE.
AND WE APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT THE STATE ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT AND THE GOVERNOR ARE LISTENING TO THAT.
AND WE THINK OVER TIME -- WE THINK, UNFORTUNATELY, WE ARE TRYING TO ENCOURAGE D.O.E TO DO A GOOD JOB ON THE LEGACY PLAN, AND ON THE OTHER REPOSITORY REPORT.
WE'RE NOT OVERLY OPTIMISTIC BECAUSE THE FIRST ONE I MENTIONED, THE PRIORITIZATION OF LOS ALAMOS WASTE, THEIR INITIAL REPORT ON THAT EARLIER THIS YEAR WAS NON-COMPLIANT WITH THE PERMIT CONDITIONS.
SO, WE HOPE THEY'RE GOING TO DO BETTER.
IF THEY DON'T DO BETTER, WE HOPE THE STATE IS ACTUALLY GOING TO ENFORCE AND TAKE ACTION.
>> Megan: MYRRIAH, AS WE WRAP UP, YOU POINT OUT IN YOUR BOOK, "NUCLEAR NUEVO MEXICO," THE STATE HAS HOSTED THE ENTIRE CYCLE OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS PRODUCTION.
FROM MINING, TO PRODUCTION, TO TESTING, TO DISPOSAL, THERE'S A LONG LEGACY OF HARM AND POLLUTION FROM MANY OF THESE OPERATIONS.
IT'S NEVER BEEN FULLY ADDRESSED.
HOW SHOULD WE THINK ABOUT THAT HISTORY AS WE CONTEMPLATE THE FUTURE OF THE NUCLEAR INDUSTRY HERE?
>> Gomez: YOU KNOW, I THINK I SAID IT EARLIER WITH THIS 140-YEAR LEGACY WE'RE LOOKING AT.
THEY'RE PLANNING TO 2083 AND BEYOND.
I THINK WITH THREE NUCLEAR SUPERFUND SITES IN THIS STATE WE NEED TO PRIORITIZE THE CLEAN UP OF LEGACY WASTE.
AND THE FACT THERE'S NOT A TRUE DEFINITION FOR THAT IS REALLY PROBLEMATIC.
THE FACT THAT VARIOUS AGENCIES WITHIN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DON'T ACTUALLY AGREE ON WHAT SHOULD BE COMMON DEFINITIONS FOR VARIOUS TYPES OF NUCLEAR WASTE IS REALLY PROBLEMATIC.
BECAUSE WE CAN TALK ABOUT WIP WASTE, WE CAN TALK ABOUT LEGACY WASTE, QUOTE-UNQUOTE LEGACY WASTE AND TRUE WASTE, BUT ALSO THERE'S LOTS OF OTHER TYPES OF WASTE.
THERE'S, YOU KNOW, URANIUM -- ABANDONED URANIUM MINES.
THERE'S SUPERFUND SITES.
THERE ARE LOTS OF INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES THAT ARE BEING PLAGUED BY THE LEGACY OF URANIUM MINING.
AND NOW, ACTUALLY BEING PITTED AGAINST EACH OTHER OVER THE CLEANING UP OF THESE SITES.
WE ALSO HAVE THE DOWNWINDERS.
THE ISSUE AROUND THE TRINITY SITE.
AND THAT NEEDS TO BE DEALT WITH AS WELL.
SO, I THINK THAT IN TERMS OF THINKING ABOUT LEGACY WASTE, BUT ALSO THE LEGACY OF WHAT THE MANHATTAN PROJECT HAS DONE IN NEW MEXICO, WE REALLY NEED TO THINK ABOUT WHAT THIS LOOKS LIKE MOVING FORWARD.
FOR THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF NOT JUST OUR BODIES, BUT OUR BODIES OF AIR, OUR BODIES OF WATER, OUR LAND.
YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN THIS -- JUST IN THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS, HOW FIRES AND FLOODING CAN DEVASTATE OUR ENVIRONMENTS HERE IN NEW MEXICO.
AND WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT THE CITING OR LOCATIONS OF THESE WASTE -- OF THIS WASTE AND THESE OTHER SITES, WE REALLY NEED TO BE CONSIDERATE OF THAT AS WELL.
THERE HAVE ALREADY BEEN TWO MAJOR FOREST FIRES AROUND LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LAB.
AND WE JUST CAN'T AFFORD TO HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAPPEN AGAIN IN THE FUTURE.
>> Megan: MYRRIAH GOMEZ, DON HANCOCK, THANK YOU FOR COMING AND JOINING US.
I'M SURE WE'LL BE TALKING TO YOU MORE IN THE FUTURE ABOUT ALL THESE ISSUES.
>> Hancock: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> Jeff: THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.
>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
New Mexico In Focus is a local public television program presented by NMPBS