>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Jeff: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, REFLECTIONS ON JUSTICE ALEXANDER UBALLEZ LOOKS BACK AT HIS TIME LEADING THE LOCAL U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, DAYS BEFORE HE'S EXPECTED TO GET THE AXE FROM DONALD TRUMP.

>> Uballez: I SERVE AT THE PLEASURE OF THE PRESIDENT.

SO LONG AS I SERVE IN THAT CAPACITY, I WILL.

I INTEND TO STAY HERE UNTIL I'M ASKED TO RESIGN OR TO LEAVE.

>> Jeff: AND, CONSIDERING THE MIDDLE CLASS, AS NEW MEXICANS HEAD BACK TO WORK IN THE NEW YEAR.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I'M EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR.

DONALD TRUMP IS HEADED BACK TO THE WHITE HOUSE, AND U.S.

ATTORNEYS ACROSS THE NATION ARE PACKING THEIR BAGS AND POLISHING UP THEIR RESUMES.

SINCE RONALD REAGAN'S FIRST TERM, MOST PRESIDENTS HAVE CANNED TOP FEDERAL COPS AROUND THE COUNTRY AND REPLACED THEM WITH PEOPLE OF THEIR OWN.

ALEXANDER UBALLEZ HAS LED THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO FOR THE LAST TWO-AND-A-HALF YEARS.

NOW, HE'S WAITING FOR THE END.

UBALLEZ STOPPED BY OUR STUDIO THIS WEEK, AND HE HAD LOT TO SAY.

WE WANTED YOU TO HEAR THAT CONVERSATION IN FULL.

IT BEGINS WITH A REFLECTION ON THE POLITICIZATION OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT'S SATELLITES.

WELCOME BACK TO NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Uballez: THANKS FOR HAVING ME BACK.

>> Jeff: SO, YOU WERE APPOINTED AS U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO IN MAY OF 2022.

AND PRETTY MUCH NO ONE EXPECTS YOU TO STILL HAVE THAT TITLE IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS, AFTER DONALD TRUMP IS INAUGURATED AGAIN.

WE'VE COME, AS A NATION, TO SORT OF EXPECT, FOR THE GAME OF THRONES FANS OUT THERE, A MASSIVE RED WEDDING ACROSS THE COUNTRY OF U.S.

ATTORNEYS WHEN A NEW PRESIDENT COMES INTO OFFICE.

BUT IT WASN'T ALWAYS THAT WAY, WAS IT?

>> Uballez: THAT'S RIGHT.

SO, I THINK IT WILL BE LESS RED THIS TIME, TO START IN THE PRESENT DAY, BECAUSE A LOT OF U.S.

ATTORNEYS ARE RESIGNING.

I THINK IT'S AN ANTICIPATION OF WHAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING, WHICH IS THAT WE'LL BE ASKED TO RESIGN OR FIRED IN THE COMING WEEKS.

BUT, REALLY, THESE POSITIONS, MUCH LIKE WE TALK ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE, THE FBI DIRECTOR POSITION NOW, WERE REALLY MEANT TO BE APOLITICAL.

THEY'RE MEANT TO BE NONPARTISAN.

THAT'S BECAUSE THE PURSUIT OF JUSTICE DOESN'T HEW TO A POLITICAL PARTY.

THE APPROACHES MAY CHANGE, BUT THE GOALS NEVER SHOULD.

THESE COMMISSIONS, MY COMMISSION THAT I RECEIVED IN MAY OF 2022 SAYS FOUR YEARS.

LIKE THE FBI DIRECTOR, WHICH SAYS TEN, THOSE ARE ALWAYS EXPECTED I THINK, ORIGINALLY AT LEAST, TO CARRY THROUGH ADMINISTRATIONS IN A NON-PARTISAN WAY.

A FEW DECADES BACK THEY BECAME MORE POLITICIZED, AND WITHOUT DISCUSSING THE POLITICS OF IT, IT HAS BECOME TRADITION FOR NEW ADMINISTRATIONS TO REMOVE THE SITTING U.S.

ATTORNEYS AND APPOINT THEIR OWN PEOPLE, WHICH OF COURSE THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO ADVANCE THEIR AGENDA.

>> Jeff: GOTCHA.

SO, YOUR COMMISSION TECHNICALLY WOULD RUN THROUGH MAY OF 2026.

WHAT ARE YOU PLANNING TO DO, IN TERMS OF THIS JOB THAT YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW, AFTER INAUGURATION DAY?

>> Uballez: THAT'S RIGHT.

SO, BECAUSE MY COMMISSION SAYS FOUR YEARS I PLAN TO SERVE FOUR YEARS.

IT ALSO SAYS THAT I SERVE AT THE PLEASURE OF THE PRESIDENT.

SO LONG AS I SERVE IN THAT CAPACITY, I WILL.

I INTEND TO STAY HERE UNTIL I'M ASKED TO RESIGN OR TO LEAVE.

>> Jeff: GOTCHA.

SO, LET'S BACK UP JUST A LITTLE BIT.

YOU STARTED YOUR CAREER AS A PROSECUTOR IN DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICES IN SANTA FE AND ALBUQUERQUE BACK IN 2011.

THEN, IN 2016, YOU WENT TO WORK AS A LINE PROSECUTOR AT THE U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

I'M CURIOUS, AS YOU SIT HERE NOW, WHAT WERE SOME OF THE BIG DIFFERENCES BETWEEN DOING THIS WORK AT THE STATE LEVEL VERSUS THE FEDERAL LEVEL?

>> Uballez: ONE OF MY FORMER COLLEAGUES DESCRIBED THE FEDERAL PROSECUTION AS LUXURIOUS PROSECUTION.

THAT'S BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE RESOURCES AND THE TIME TO DO IT EXCELLENTLY.

IT IS MUCH MORE -- YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE TALKING THE BATTLE IN THE COURTROOM, IT IS MUCH MORE OF A FENCING MATCH OF SKILL, TECHNIQUE AND ELEGANCE.

WHEREAS, STATE COURT IS MUCH MORE OF A KNIFE FIGHT.

WORKING IN THE STATE COURTS, REALLY, YOU DON'T HAVE THE TIME, YOU DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES.

YOU'RE RUNNING FROM TRIAL TO TRIAL.

AND YOU'RE TRYING TO KEEP ALL THE BALLS UP IN THE AIR TO DETERMINE WHICH BALLS WILL BREAK IF THEY FALL, SO YOU CAN EFFECTIVELY ADVANCE THE MISSION, KEEP THE SYSTEM MOVING FORWARD, SEEK JUSTICE, ALL WITHOUT ENOUGH RESOURCES TO DO IT.

SO, MY EXPERIENCE, I WAS -- THE LAST THE 18 MONTHS HERE I SPENT WITH THE SECOND JUDICIAL DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, I WAS A LINE PROSECUTOR IN THE CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN DIVISION.

SO, THAT FINAL 18-MONTH STRETCH BEFORE I CAME OVER TO BE A FED, I DID 20 FELONY JURY TRIALS.

ALL OF THEM WERE CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN.

>> Jeff: IN 18 MONTHS?

>> Uballez: IN 18 MONTHS.

IF YOU DO THE MATH, IT'S ABOUT MORE THAN ONE A MONTH.

AND THREE OF THOSE WERE CHILD HOMICIDES.

THESE ARE NOT MISDEMEANOR CASES.

THESE ARE NOT SIMPLE ASSAULTS OR BATTERIES.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THE MOST SERIOUS SEXUAL ASSAULTS, SERIOUS PHYSICAL ASSAULTS AND DEATH.

SO, IN THE D.A.

'S OFFICE, YOU'RE FACED WITH OVERWHELMING ODDS IN THESE INCREDIBLY TRAGIC EXPERIENCES.

WHEN YOU COME OVER TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, YOU SIMPLY HAVE MORE RESOURCES AND MORE DISCRETION BECAUSE IT LINKS TO THE FACT THAT WE ALSO HAVE BIGGER HAMMERS.

SO, WE CHOOSE WHEN WE EXERCISE FEDERAL JURISDICTION OVER A CASE.

WE HAVE MORE INVESTIGATIVE RESOURCES.

WE HAVE MORE TIME.

WE HAVE A BIGGER LAW OFFICE, FRANKLY, TO DEPEND ON.

OUR OFFICE HERE IS ABOUT 200 PEOPLE.

WE'RE A PART OF A DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WHICH IS THE LARGEST LAW OFFICE IN THE WORLD.

SO, WE HAVE ACCESS TO THAT, THROUGH THE ADVENT OF THE INTERNET, WHERE WE CAN COMMUNICATE WITH THE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS WHO HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR DECADES ACROSS THE NATION, ACROSS THE WORLD.

SO, THERE'S ANOTHER STRUCTURAL DIFFERENCE THAT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE.

THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY IS AN ELECTION POSITION THAT WORKS IN CONCERT WITH OTHER ELECTEDS, LIKE THE MAYOR AND HIS CHOSEN CHIEF OF POLICE.

FOR US WE ALL SERVE, MORE OR LESS, THE SAME BOSS.

SO, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HOUSES NOT JUST U.S.

ATTORNEYS, BUT FBI, DEA, ATF, MARSHAL SERVICE.

AND WE ALL, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHETHER YOU'RE DHS OR DOJ, REPORT TO THE SAME PRESIDENT.

SO, FOR US BEING A PART OF THE SAME BRANCH REALLY HELPS US SYNCH OUR EFFORTS AND WORK TOGETHER, AS INVESTIGATORS, IN A VERY PRODUCTIVE WAY ON THE FEDERAL SIDE THAT SUPER CHARGE OUR INVESTIGATIONS AND THE PRESENTATIONS WE MAKE IN COURT.

>> Jeff: OKAY.

LET'S WIND THE TAPE FORWARD AGAIN TO 2022 WHEN YOU TOSS YOUR NAME IN THE HAT TO BECOME THE U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO.

WHAT WERE YOU HOPING TO ACCOMPLISH WHEN YOU MADE THE DECISION THAT YOU MIGHT LIKE THE JOB?

>> Uballez: I THINK I ACTUALLY THREW MY NAME IN THE HAT IN 2020.

AND IT TURNS OUT IT'S A VERY LONG PROCESS TO GET IN FRONT OF THE SENATE AND TO GET INTO THIS SEAT.

FOR ME, REALLY, WHAT IT WAS WAS A CALLING TO PUBLIC SERVICE.

IT'S WHAT ALWAYS HAS DRIVEN ME IN ME IN MY CAREER.

IT'S A THING I REALIZED VERY EARLY ON IN LAW SCHOOL WHEN I WENT TO BECOME A LAWYER, NOT KNOWING WHAT LAWYERS DID.

AND GOT THERE, AND REALIZED I REALLY DON'T LIKE WHAT MOST LAWYERS DO.

MONEY DOESN'T DRIVE ME.

THE PIECE -- AND THERE'S A PIECE EVEN DEEPER THAN MONEY, WHICH IS THE MORALITY OF IT.

NOT SAYING THAT LAWYERS ARE IMMORAL, BUT SAYING REALLY, WHEN YOU HAVE TO SET ASIDE YOUR PERSONAL BELIEFS FIRST, AND THE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE, TO ADVOCATE FOR SINGLE CLIENT AT THE EXPENSE OF EVERYONE ELSE THERE'S A SORT OF COGNITIVE DISSONANCE THAT OCCURS THERE THAT IS REALLY DIFFICULT FOR ME.

SO, I FOUND PUBLIC SERVICE, AND I FOUND PROSECUTION BECAUSE WHEN WE WALK INTO THE COURTROOM WE REPRESENT THE UNITED STATES.

THAT MEANS ALL THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES.

SO, IN CONSIDERING PUTTING MY NAME IN FOR THIS POSITION, I REALLY PUT THAT FIRST.

I HAD SUBSTANTIAL EXPERIENCE WITH THE STATE.

I'VE DONE DOZENS AND DOZENS OF JURY TRIALS.

AND I BEGAN TO SEE THINGS FROM A BROADER PERSPECTIVE.

SO, AS A LINE PROSECUTOR, YOU HAVE FACTS YOU HAVE CASE, YOU HAVE LAW.

YOU GO IN, YOU WIN, YOU LOSE.

YOU SENTENCE.

YOU OPEN YOUR NEXT CASE.

BUT, IN 2019, I WAS PUT IN CHARGE OF A PROGRAM CALLED PROJECT SAFE NEIGHBORHOODS.

PROJECT SAFE NEIGHBORHOODS IS A NATIONAL PROGRAM TO REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE.

THAT WAS REALLY THE FIRST TIME, EMBARRASSINGLY, AS A LAWYER, PROSECUTOR, AND PUBLIC SERVIENT THAT I REALLY ENGAGED WITH THE IDEA OF OUR JOB AS POLICY.

IT ACTUALLY SAYS THIS IF YOU LOOK IN THE JUSTICE MANUAL FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.

EVERY CHARGE WE MAKE, EVERY INVESTIGATION WE DO, ARE POLICY DECISIONS THAT THIS SET OF FACTS IS THE APPROPRIATE WAY TO APPLY THE FEDERAL PRESSURE.

SO, WHEN I PUT MY NAME IN THE HAT, I HAD THIS REALIZATION THAT OUR RESPONSIBILITY IS MUCH BROADER THAN PROSECUTING THE CASE IN FRONT OF US.

OUR RESPONSIBILITY IS PUBLIC SAFETY, AND IT TURNS OUT THERE'S A LOT OF RESEARCH ON THIS.

THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO PUT A LOT OF TIME AND THOUGHT TO THINKING ABOUT WHAT ACTUALLY WORKS HERE, AND PROSECUTION'S A PIECE.

INVESTIGATING IS A PIECE, ENFORCEMENT IS A PIECE, BUT IT'S NOT THE FULL PICTURE.

ESPECIALLY HERE IN NEW MEXICO, WHERE WE DO STILL STRUGGLE WITH CRIME AND PUBLIC SAFETY AND VIOLENCE, WE HAVE TO THINK BIGGER, WE PROSECUTORS, EVERYONE WHO SERVES IN THE GOVERNMENT, THAN THE SPECIFIC SILO AND LANE WE'VE BEEN GIVEN.

FOR ME, THE DRIVE WAS I BELIEVED WE NEEDED TO THINK BIGGER.

I THOUGHT WE NEEDED TO NOT JUST DO THE THING WE DO VERY WELL EVERY SINGLE DAY, BUT REACH OUT AND INCORPORATE OURSELVES INTO THE BROADER COMMUNITY, AND TO THE MORE SPECIFIC COMMUNITY OF FOLKS PROVIDING SUPPORTS TO ADDRESS CRIME.

>> Jeff: SO, THINKING ABOUT THAT SORT OF HIGH-MINDED APPROACH THAT WAS COLORING THE WAY YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THINGS WHEN YOU DECIDED THAT YOU MIGHT LIKE THE JOB, LOOKING BACK NOW, HOW DID IT GO?

WHAT WERE A COUPLE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU ACCOMPLISHED, EITHER SPECIFIC INITIATIVES, OR WHETHER YOU SORT OF LIVED UP TO WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED?

>> Uballez: YEAH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT -- I READ A LOT OF KING.

I FIND HIM VERY GROUNDING FOR MY PRACTICE.

ONE OF THE STORIES THAT HE TELLS FROM THE BIBLE IS ABOUT KING SOLOMON TALKING ABOUT HIS FATHER KING DAVID, AND HOW DAVID WANTED TO BUILD A TEMPLE TO GOD.

BUT IT WAS A PROJECT HE WOULD NEVER FINISH.

IT WAS A PROJECT SOLOMON WOULD FINISH.

BUT IN FIRST KINGS, CHAPTER EIGHT, HE TALKS ABOUT HOW THAT WAS ENOUGH FOR GOD.

THAT DAVID WILLED FOR IT TO HAPPEN.

THAT HE WANTED FOR IT TO HAPPEN, THAT HE STROVE FOR IT TO HAPPEN, EVEN THOUGH HE DIDN'T FINISH IT.

I TAKE A LOT OF SOLACE IN THIS IDEA BECAUSE THESE PROJECTS ARE ALL TOO BIG FOR ANY ONE PERSON.

THEY'RE TOO BIG FOR ANY ONE LIFETIME.

AND WE HAVE TO BE OKAY WITH THE FACT WE MOVE THE BALL FORWARD, BUT WE MAY NOT GET IT WHERE IT NEEDS TO GO.

THERE'S A LOT THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE STILL.

THERE'S A LOT THAT I'M PROUD OF.

THE FIRST IS WORKING ON VIOLENT CRIME, WHICH IS OUR PRIORITY AND THE PRIORITY FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

AS I SAID IN THE PROJECT SAFE NEIGHBORHOODS INITIATIVE, WE WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE AND ITS POLICE DEPARTMENT TO BUILD WHAT NOW IS ACS AND THE VIOLENCE INTERVENTION PROGRAM WITHIN ACS.

BUT THAT WAS JUST AN IDEA WE GOT FROM JOHN JAY COLLEGE WHEN ME AND THE MAYOR AND THE NOW CHIEF, BUT THEN WAS THE DEPUTY CHIEF, THE D.A.

AND A NUMBER OF THE OTHER FOLKS WENT OUT THERE TO LEARN ABOUT THIS IDEA CALLED GROUP VIOLENCE INTERVENTION.

THIS WAS PART OF THE POLICY THAT INSPIRED ME TO GO FOR THIS POSITION, WHICH WAS THERE ARE WAYS TO APPROACH CRIME THAT ARE SMART THAT HAVE BEEN PROVEN AND THAT WILL WORK.

AND THEY'RE NOT JUST PROSECUTION, NOT JUST ENFORCEMENT, AND NOT JUST SOCIAL SERVICES.

THEY'RE COMBINING ALL OF THESE THINGS TOGETHER.

SO, YOU KNOW, WITH IMMENSE CREDIT TO THIS MAYOR, THIS CHIEF OF POLICE, AND TO THE PEOPLE OF ALBUQUERQUE WHO SUPPORTED THIS, ONE OF MY PROUDEST PIECES OF MY CAREER IS PLAYING A PART IN BRINGING ACS AND VIP TO ALBUQUERQUE.

>> Jeff: ACS BEING?

>> Uballez: SORRY, ALBUQUERQUE COMMUNITY SERVICES.

YES.

THEY'RE THIRD BRANCH OF PUBLIC SAFETY.

SO, PLAYING A PIECE IN THAT DEVELOPMENT AND SUPPORTING THAT PROGRAM AND DOING, VERY SPECIFICALLY, THE VIOLENCE INTERVENTION WORK, HAS BEEN BOTH A PLEASURE AND A PROUD MOMENT FOR ME.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE DONE A NUMBER OF OTHER THINGS.

ONE OF THE GREAT HONORS OF THIS POSITION IS SERVING, VERY SPECIFICALLY, OUR TRIBAL PARTNERS.

SO, WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ENFORCEMENT INVESTIGATIONS ACROSS ALL OF OUR 23 TRIBES AND PUEBLOS.

IN ADDITION TO REALLY BEING A POINT OF CONTACT FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND OUR TRIBAL, SOVEREIGN NEIGHBORS.

WE INVESTED A LOT OF RESOURCES IN EXPANDING OUR SERVICES THERE.

WE DOUBLED THE NUMBER OF PROSECUTORS IN THAT DIVISION.

WE EXPANDED THE RESPONSIBILITIES TO INCLUDE NOT JUST PROSECUTING, INVESTIGATING, BUT THE LIAISON DUTIES.

SO THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR BEING A PERSON TO CALL FOR TRIBAL GOVERNORS, AND FOLKS ON OUR NATIONS AND PUEBLOS, WHEN THEY NEED SOMETHING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

SO, IMPROVING OUR SERVICE TO OUR TRIBAL NEIGHBORS.

BUILDING THE MMIP PROGRAM IN NEW MEXICO, WHICH IS REALLY FOCUSED ON MAKING SURE THAT NOBODY FALLS THROUGH THE CRACKS, AND REALLY RELYING ON COMMUNITIES, PEOPLE AND THE PUBLIC TO HELP US SOLVE THE CASES OF MISSING AND MURDERED INDIVIDUALS.

WE ALSO BUILT, THIS DISTRICT, THE STATE'S FIRST FEDERAL RE-ENTRY COURT.

SO, THIS WAS AN IDEA THAT'S NOT NEW.

MANY PEOPLE HAVE DONE IT BEFORE, BUT WE'VE NEVER GOTTEN AROUND TO IT ON THE FEDERAL SIDE.

IT'S A PIECE, FOR ME, OF UNDERSTANDING THE JOB HOLISTICALLY.

IT'S NOT JUST INVESTIGATING, ARRESTING, PUTTING IN PRISON.

BECAUSE IN THAT MOMENT WE'VE KEPT THE COMMUNITY SAFE FOR THAT PERIOD OF TIME FROM THIS PARTICULAR PERSON.

BUT OVER 90% OF PEOPLE WE SEND TO FEDERAL PRISON COME BACK TO OUR COMMUNITIES.

SO, A COMPONENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY IS MAKING SURE THEY HAVE THE SUPPORT THEY NEED WHEN THEY COME BACK TO BECOME MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY, FULL MEMBERS OF OUR, COMMUNITY, WITH OUR SUPPORT AND INVESTMENT AND THE WAY WE TAKE CARE OF OUR NEIGHBOR.

SO, BUILDING A RE-ENTRY COURT WAS A DREAM OF MINE.

AND I'M VERY HAPPY TO SAY WE GRADUATED OUR FIRST CLASS A COUPLE MONTHS AGO.

AND I'M REALLY PROUD OF THOSE GUYS.

THEY WORKED REALLY HARD.

AND, FINALLY, I WOULD SAY I SIT IN AN ADVISORY CAPACITY TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

IT'S A THING CALLED ATTORNEY GENERAL'S ADVISORY COMMITTEE.

ABOUT 15 U.S.

ATTORNEYS FROM ACROSS THE NATION WHO BOTH -- WE ADVISE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND OTHER DEPARTMENT LEADERSHIP ON POLICY.

SO, WE DEVELOP A LOT OF THE POLICY THAT COMES NATIONWIDE.

WE RESPOND TO LOT OF THE QUESTIONS IN THESE FROM MAIN JUSTICE.

WE COORDINATE A LOT OF THE COMMENTARY AND THE NEEDS OF OTHER COMPONENTS.

SO, IT WOULD BE LAW ENFORCEMENT OR MAIN JUSTICE COMPONENTS.

AND WE ADVOCATE FOR OUR DISTRICTS, FOR OUR CIRCUITS, AND FOR THE LINE OF USA ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

IN THAT CAPACITY, I WAS REALLY HAPPY TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE ADVOCACY FOR NEW MEXICO IN D.C.

IN A WAY THAT WE REALLY NEVER HAVE HAD.

TO BRING NEW POSITIONS TO NEW MEXICO WITHIN THE UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS OFFICE.

TO GIVE FOCUS TO IMPORTANT PROGRAMS NATIONWIDE, LIKE OUR MISSING AND MURDERED INDIGENOUS PERSONS REGIONAL PROGRAM, WHICH IS A NATIONWIDE PROGRAM, I THINK WE BROUGHT ATTORNEY GENERAL'S ADVISORY COMMITTEE.

SO, REALLY, TO BE ABLE TO REPRESENT THE PEOPLE HERE IN D.C. TO HAVE THEIR VOICE HEARD, AND TO BRING THEIR RESOURCES HERE, WAS ONE OF THE THINGS I SET OUT TO DO AT THE VERY BEGINNING.

>> Jeff: WHAT IS SOME OF THE WORK, TO EXTEND THE METAPHOR YOU USED EARLIER, THAT IS LEFT TO SOLOMON?

AND WHAT WERE SOME OF THE CHALLENGES THAT PUT YOU IN THE POSITION OF NOT BEING ABLE TO FINISH IT YOURSELF?

>> Uballez: THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE, AND THE BIGGEST SURPRISE FOR ME COMING INTO THIS POSITION, I THINK FOR ANY LEADER COMING TO LEAD A BUREAUCRACY, IS THE BUREAUCRACY ITSELF.

IT'S THE ADMINISTRATION.

IT'S THE BUDGET.

IT IS RUNNING INTO FORCES THAT ARE MUCH BIGGER THAN YOU, OR AT LEAST MUCH MORE COMPLICATED THAN YOU CAN UNTANGLE IN THE TIME THAT YOU HAVE.

SO, ONE OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES WAS FUNDING, AS IT IS EVERYWHERE.

BUT OVER THIS PAST COUPLE OF YEARS, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FACED ITS LARGEST SINGLE REDUCTION IN FUNDS IN ITS HISTORY.

SO, WE WERE FACING A MASSIVE BUDGET DEFICIT.

WE WERE FACING AN INABILITY TO HIRE THE PEOPLE THAT WE NEEDED TO SERVE THE PEOPLE HERE.

IT'S NOT JUST NEW MEXICO, THIS IS ACROSS THE NATION.

SO, AS THE LEADER OF THE U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, MY JOB ISN'T JUST MAKING SURE WE PROSECUTE THE CASES.

MY LAWYERS ARE DOING A GOOD JOB, AND THEIR PLEADINGS ARE EXCELLENT, AND THEIR ARGUMENTS ARE PHENOMENAL.

I HAVE TO KEEP THE DOORS OPEN.

I HAVE TO MAKE HIRING DECISIONS.

I HAVE TO MAKE STRATEGIC DECISIONS ABOUT HOW THE OFFICE WILL OPERATE.

SO, THAT'S ANOTHER THING THAT, YOU KNOW, SORT OF GOT IN THE WAY.

SO, LEADING THIS OFFICE THROUGH THIS BUDGETARY SHORTFALL WAS A HUGE CHALLENGE.

I THINK IT WILL CONTINUE TO BE A CHALLENGE.

LOOK AT THE CR THAT WE'RE UNDER RIGHT NOW.

I'M VERY PROUD TO SAY WE KEPT THE OFFICE IN THE BLACK THE ENTIRE TIME THAT I'VE BEEN A UNITED STATES ATTORNEY.

I CAN'T SAY THAT OF EVERY U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

IT WAS REALLY DIRE TIMES, THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIRS.

BUT HAVING TO LEARN BUDGET WAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS.

AND I THINK ANOTHER, A FINAL CHALLENGE, WHICH WE HAVE NOT OVERCOME, BUT YET REMAINS ON THIS ADMIN NERDY SIDE IS E-LITIGATION.

WHEN I TOOK OVER THE OFFICE, ALL THE FILES ARE PAPER.

WE WERE 100% PAPER OFFICE.

WE DID EVERYTHING THROUGH PRINTED FILES THAT WERE STORED IN A ROOM.

AND IN, YOU KNOW, 2024 NOW, BUT 2022 THEN, THAT'S ABSURD.

SO, OVER THE PAST THREE YEARS, WE'VE CONVERTED FROM A FULL PAPER FILE SYSTEM -- REMEMBER, THIS IS A 200-PEOPLE OFFICE WITH THOUSANDS OF CASES A YEAR, TO FULL DIGITAL.

EVERY ONE OF OUR FILES IS DIGITAL.

WE'RE MOVE TO E-LITIGATION IN A TRUE SENSE OF E-DISCOVERY AND PRESENTING ALL OF OUR CASES IN COURTS DIGITALLY.

WHICH IS, AS YOU IMAGINE, A HUGE PROJECT.

THAT ONE IS NOT DONE.

THAT REMAINS TO BE DONE.

AND THERE'S A THING THAT STANDS IN THE WAY OF EFFECTIVELY DOING OUR JOBS IS OUR FAILURE TO MODERNIZE.

IT REALLY IS THE BORING ADMINISTRATIVE STUFF THAT NO ONE REALLY THINKS ABOUT.

EVERYONE COMES IN LIKE I DID WITH THESE LOFTY IDEAS, BUT IT'S THE BORING ADMINISTRATIVE STUFF THAT IS CRITICAL TO MAKING AN OFFICE FUNCTION.

AND IT TURNS OUT I CAN BE JUST AS NERDY ABOUT THE BUDGET AND ABOUT ADMIN AND E-LITIGATION AS I CAN ABOUT THE LAW.

AND THAT'S REALLY HELPED ME MOVE THE OFFICE FORWARD INTO THE 21st CENTURY.

>> Jeff: LAST MARCH, UBALLEZ AGREED TO TALK WITH ME ABOUT THE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION HIS OFFICE IS LEADING INTO ALLEGED CORRUPTION WITHIN THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT'S DWI UNIT.

IT'S BEEN NEARLY A YEAR SINCE THAT STORY FIRST HIT THE HEADLINES, AND THE CASE HAS GONE QUIET.

UBALLEZ AND I PICK UP PART TWO OF OUR CONVERSATION THIS WEEK WHERE WE LEFT OFF LAST YEAR.

>> JEFF: SO, YOU WERE LAST HERE IN MARCH.

THE SUBJECT OF OUR CONVERSATION ON THAT OCCASION WAS CORRUPTION INVESTIGATION INTO ALLEGED CORRUPTION WITHIN THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT'S DWI UNIT.

NO ONE HAS BEEN CHARGED, TO DATE.

BUT WE ENDED OUR CONVERSATION, AT THAT TIME, WITH ME ASKING YOU WHETHER THE PUBLIC SHOULD EXPECT CLOSURE, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER ANYONE IS EVER CHARGED, TRIED, OR CONVICTED.

SAME QUESTION NOW.

EITHER WAY, SHOULD WE EXPECT THAT WE GET TO LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT THAT INVESTIGATION AT SOME POINT?

>> Uballez: THE SAME ANSWER.

THE PUBLIC SHOULD EXPECT CLOSURE ON THIS INVESTIGATION.

ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL THINGS ABOUT PUBLIC SERVICE IS THAT MOST PEOPLE IN IT ARE IN IT FOR THEIR CAREER AND THEY'RE IN IT FOR JUSTICE.

I WILL MOST LIKELY LOSE MY JOB.

I'M A POLITICAL APPOINTEE, AND THAT'S WHAT I SIGNED UP FOR.

I'M THE ONLY POLITICAL APPOINTEE IN MY OFFICE OF 200 PEOPLE.

THAT MEANS 200 PEOPLE THAT SIGNED UP UNDER MANY DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATIONS, MANY DIFFERENT ATTORNEY GENERALS, AND WHO DO THIS HARD WORK OF JUSTICE FOR 60 TO 80 HOURS A WEEK OUT OVERTIME, THEY DO IT BECAUSE THEY CARE.

THEY JOINED THIS OFFICE FOR ITS MISSION, AND NOT FOR ITS BENEFITS.

NOT FOR THE POLITICAL PARTY, AND NOT FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

THEY DO IT FOR THE MISSION.

SO, THE BEAUTIFUL THING ABOUT SERVING ALONGSIDE THESE PEOPLE IS KNOWING THAT NO MATTER WHO SITS IN MY CHAIR, OR IN A CHAIR IN D.C., THEY'RE GOING TO DO THEIR JOB FOR THIS COMMUNITY.

THEY'RE FROM HERE.

THEY'RE NOT TELEWORKING FROM D.C., THEY'RE INVESTED IN THIS COMMUNITY.

THEY LIVE IN THIS COMMUNITY.

THEY CARE ABOUT IT.

AND YOU CAN EXPECT, WHETHER OR NOT I'M SITTING IN THE CHAIR, THAT THEY WILL STILL DO THEIR JOBS.

>> Jeff: DO YOU HAVE A SENSE OF A TIMELINE FOR WHEN WE MIGHT LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT THAT INVESTIGATION?

>> Uballez: I DO.

>> Jeff: ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN SHARE WITH OUR VIEWERS AT THIS TIME?

>> Uballez: NO, SIR.

>> Jeff: OKAY.

I WANTS TO TALK SOME MORE ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE -- YOU DIDN'T USE THE PHRASE, BUT I BELIEVE A LOT OF FOLKS WOULD BE FAMILIAR WITH THE PHRASE CAREER FOLKS.

I WANT TO TALK SOME MORE ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOMEONE WHO IS APPOINTED TO A POSITION, LIKE THE ONE YOU'RE IN NOW.

SOMEONE WHO ULTIMATELY SERVES AT THE PLEASURE OF THE UNITED STATES, AND THOSE CAREER FOLKS.

YOU HAVE DONE BOTH JOBS.

WHAT CAN YOU TELL FOLKS ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE AND SORT OF COME FROM WHEN IT COMES TO THOSE KIND OF TWO DIFFERENT ROLES WITHIN THE U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE?

>> Uballez: ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK IT'S A VITAL PROTECTION OF THE WAY IN WHICH OUR GOVERNMENT SERVES ITS PEOPLE.

BECAUSE WE HAVE THE POLITICAL SIDE AND THE VOTERS WILL MAKE THE CALL ABOUT WHAT THE BROAD LEVEL POLICY SHOULD BE.

BUT, REALLY, THE MISSION AND THE WORK THAT IS DONE THROUGHOUT GOVERNMENT, YOU KNOW OUTSIDE OF JUSTICE AS WELL, SHOULD BE THE RIGHT WORK FOR THE COMMUNITY.

THAT IS WHY WE HAVE CIVIL SERVICE PROTECTIONS FOR FOLKS WHO SIGN UP TO BE A U.S.A AS IN MY OFFICE, OR CAREER STAFF, OR ANYONE ACROSS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THESE ARE PEOPLE WHOSE JOBS WERE MEANT TO LAST A CAREER.

THEY WERE MEANT TO HAVE DEEP UNDERSTANDINGS OF THE INSTITUTIONS THAT WERE RUN.

HISTORICALLY, THE WHY OF WHY THINGS ARE DONE.

AND DEEP COMMITMENTS TO THE PEOPLE IN PUBLIC SERVICE.

SO, WE HAVE THIS WORK FOR US, AND THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IS, OVERWHELMINGLY, THESE CAREER PUBLIC SERVANTS.

THESE PEOPLE WILL CARRY ON.

THEY HAVE CARRIED ON.

THEY'VE DONE THIS MANY TIMES, THROUGH MANY ADMINISTRATIONS.

I SERVED AS A LINE CAREER PROSECUTOR IN THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

I SERVED IN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.

I SERVED IN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

WE SERVE ACROSS THESE POLITICAL DIVIDES BECAUSE THE JOB WE DO IS NEVER MEANT TO BE PARTISAN.

THE JOB WE DO IS FOR JUSTICE AND THE JOB WE DO IS TO THE PEOPLE HERE.

SO, FOLKS LIKE ME AND MY COLLEAGUES ACROSS THE UNITED STATES, THE UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS, WE GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS.

IT'S POLITICAL.

IT'S NOMINATED BY OUR HOME STATE'S SENATORS.

IT'S APPROVED BY THE WHITE HOUSE AND BY THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE LEADERSHIP.

IT IS PASSED THE SENATE FOR THEIR ADVICE AND CONSENT.

AND THIS POLITICAL PROCESS HAPPENS SO THAT A PRESIDENT CAN EFFECT THEIR BROAD-BASED STRATEGIES ABOUT HOW THEY WANT, IN OUR CASE, JUSTICE TO HAPPEN.

BUT THE DAY TO DAY, THE CASE WORK, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE VALUES BEHIND WHAT WE DO, THOSE PERSIST THROUGH THE CAREER PEOPLE WHO SPAN ADMINISTRATIONS.

>> Jeff: WHAT, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, ARE ONE OR TWO OF THE OTHER THINGS BEYOND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CAREER FOLKS AND APPOINTED FOLKS, WHAT ARE ONE OF TWO OF THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE?

>> Uballez: THAT IT'S FULL OF PEOPLE.

IN OUR DISCOURSE, AND IN AN INTERNET AGE WHERE WE INTERACT IN SCREENS MORE THAN IN-PERSON, I THINK WE'VE FORGOTTEN THAT THESE INSTITUTIONS WE TALK ABOUT, THAT THE GOVERNMENTS WE POINT FINGERS AT, ARE FULL OF PEOPLE.

PEOPLE DEDICATED TO THIS MISSION.

SO, I THINK THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, OFTEN, A MISCONCEPTION IS WE'RE SITTING SOMEWHERE ELSE.

THAT THIS IS WASHINGTON, THIS IS D.C., OR THAT WE ARE SITTING HERE BUT IN AN IVORY TOWER.

THESE PEOPLE LIVE HERE.

THEY'RE YOUR NEIGHBORS.

THEY SEND THEIR KIDS TO YOUR SCHOOLS.

AND THIS IS THE THING I TELL THEM TOO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DEFENDANTS.

THESE, TOO, ARE OUR NEIGHBORS.

WE ARE ONE COMMUNITY.

WE LIVE TOGETHER.

SO, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR FOLKS TO UNDERSTAND THAT IN THIS NOT A MYSTERY INSTITUTION.

THAT'S A LOT OF WHY I LIKE TO COME AND TALK WITH YOU AND SPEAK WITH REPORTERS.

THIS IS WHY I HAVE A POLICY OF NEVER SAYING NO COMMENT ON UNLESS I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO.

IT'S BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO UNDERSTAND WHO WE ARE AND WHAT WE ARE DOING.

AND TO ASK QUESTIONS OF IT.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO ANSWER EVERY QUESTION, BUT WE SHOULD AT LEAST BE ABLE TO TELL YOU WHY WE CAN'T ANSWER IT.

SO, FOR THE PEOPLE HERE, KNOW THAT YOUR U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS FULL OF PEOPLE JUST LIKE YOU WHO CARE JUST AS MUCH AS YOU DO ABOUT THIS COMMUNITY.

I THINK, ALSO, ON THE MORE -- TO TAKE US OUT OF THE PHILOSOPHICAL AND BACK TO THE NERDY, THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE ARE INCREDIBLY BROAD.

YOU DON'T REALLY REALIZE HOW MUCH WE ACTUALLY DO.

SO, AS I MENTIONED, WE COVER AND SERVE ALL OF OUR TRIBAL NATIONS.

WE ALSO SERVE ON THE BORDER.

LIKE EVERY BORDER ENFORCEMENT, INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS ISSUE DOWN THERE.

NATIONAL SECURITY.

WE GOT NATIONAL LABS.

WE GOT BASES.

IN ADDITION TO, WHAT WE'RE MOST KNOWN FOR, WHICH IS VIOLENT CRIME WORK.

OBVIOUSLY, WE'RE DIVING IN AND HELPING WITH LOCAL AND STATE POLICE AND PROSECUTORS AND ENFORCEMENT TO DRIVE DOWN VIOLENT CRIME AND OTHER THINGS.

BUT WE PLAY THIS MASSIVE ROLE ACROSS THE STATE AND DISTRICT THAT HAS RESPONSIBILITIES THAT ARE BEYOND MERE PROSECUTION.

I THINK THAT'S AN INTERESTING COMPONENT OF WHAT WE DO.

>> Jeff: I WANT TO KIND OF STAY HERE FOR JUST A MOMENT, AND I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE CONCEPT OF WEAPONIZATION.

I FEEL LIKE PEOPLE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM, CONSERVATIVES, WHATEVER IT IS WE CALL THEM THESE DAYS, FEEL LIKE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT, WAS WEAPONIZED AGAINST DONALD TRUMP.

I'M NOT SURE THAT'S COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY WITHOUT REASON.

I ALSO FEEL LIKE FOLKS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE SPECTRUM, ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SPECTRUM, FEEL LIKE DONALD TRUMP AND OTHER REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTS HAVE DONE THE SAME DAMN THING TO THEIR POLITICAL OPPONENTS.

THE RECORD IS RIFE WITH RECEIPTS FOR THIS.

MY QUESTION TO YOU, WHERE THIS IS CONCERNED, IS HOW DO WE GET TO PLACE WHERE WE'RE NOT JUST TELLING THE PUBLIC THAT THAT'S NOT THE CASE, BUT HOW DO WE MAKE THAT NOT THE CASE?

>> Uballez: IT'S A FAIR QUESTION.

I THINK THE HISTORICAL FRAMING IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

BECAUSE I THINK ABOUT THIS A LOT TOO.

THE CONCEPT OF -- WELL MAYBE NOT THE WORDS, BUT THE CONCEPT OF THE WEAPONIZED PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE, WEAPONIZED LAW ENFORCEMENT, IS NOT NEW TO THE PUBLIC DISCOURSE.

THIS HAS BEEN AROUND FOR DECADES.

ALLEGATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE AGAINST LOCAL POLICE TO THE FBI ABOUT HOW ENFORCEMENT IS WEAPONIZED AGAINST CERTAIN COMMUNITIES, CERTAIN POLITICAL GROUPS.

THIS IS NOT A NEW CONCEPT.

IT MAYBE HAS SPREAD A LITTLE BIT FURTHER THAN IT USED TO BE AND MAYBE TO A DIFFERENT SIDE OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM, BUT THIS ALLEGATION HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE.

I THINK IT'S A FAIR QUESTION, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF POLICING, BROADLY, I'LL EXPAND IN A LITTLE BIT.

POLICING, BROADLY, IN THE UNITED STATES, AND HOW IT'S BEEN USED IN COMMUNITIES, NOT ALWAYS WITH THE GOAL OF PUBLIC SAFETY IN MIND.

SO, I DO THINK I'M REALLY PROUD OF THE CLASS OF U.S.

ATTORNEYS WHO I CURRENTLY SERVE WITH, OR SERVED WITH, AND HOW THEY TOO SEEM TO HAVE ENGAGED WITH THIS CONCEPT OF OUR JOBS BEING BIGGER THAN THE CASES THAT WE BRING, WHICH MEANS THAT WE NEED TO BE THINKING STRATEGICALLY ABOUT HOW WE USE OUR RESOURCES, WHO WE INVESTIGATE, WHO WE PROSECUTE, WHO WE CHARGE, FOR IMPACT AND NOT FOR LEGALITY.

OF COURSE, WE'RE GOING TO DO CONSTITUTIONAL INVESTIGATIONS.

WE'RE GOING TO DO PROSECUTIONS BY THE BOOK, ETHICALLY.

BUT THE KEY REALLY IS TO BRING TO AFFECT THE GOAL, WHICH IS PUBLIC SAFETY.

WE NEED TO MAKE THE PUBLIC SAFER.

IN THIS, YOU KNOW, IT GOES BACK TO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ABOUT THE CAREER PUBLIC SERVANTS IN THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, THEIR MANDATE HAS BEEN, ESPECIALLY HERE IN THE UNITED STATES -- I MEAN, ESPECIALLY HERE IN NEW MEXICO, SINCE I'VE BEEN U.S. ATTORNEY, IS KEEP THAT GOAL IN MIND ALWAYS.

WE HAPPEN TO BE -- WE HAVE THE LUXURY OF BEING FAR AWAY FROM D.C. AND FAR AWAY FROM ITS POLITICS.

WE HAVE THE PROTECTION OF ONLY HAVING ONE POLITICAL APPOINTEE IN THE OFFICE.

NO MATTER WHAT I WOULD HAVE SAID TO MY CAREER PROSECUTORS DURING MY TENURE, NOTHING WOULD HAVE MADE THEM DO AN UNETHICAL THING, NO MATTER MY TITLE OR AUTHORITY.

BECAUSE THERE IS BOTH THIS BASELINE MORALITY THAT EVERYONE WHO JOINS TO SERVE OTHER PEOPLE HAS, AND OUR ETHICAL RESPONSIBILITIES AS LAWYERS.

ALL OF US ARE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD WHEN WE PASS THE BAR AND ARE SWORN IN AS OFFICERS OF THE COURT.

SO, EVERY ONE OF THE LAWYERS IN MY OFFICE ALWAYS PUTS THOSE TWO THINGS FIRST.

WHICH MEANS THEY WILL NEVER BE WEAPONIZED TO CONDUCTING SOMETHING UNETHICAL.

BECAUSE THEY HOLD THOSE VALUES DEAR.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF I ORDERED IT, THE LAST U.S. ATTORNEY, OR THE NEXT ONE DOES.

>> Jeff: I FEEL LIKE THAT IS A STORY THAT FEDERAL OFFICIALS AND FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT COULD DO A BETTER JOB OF TELLING.

AND TO THAT END, I WANT TO ASK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THE RELATIONSHIP WORKED BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR OFFICE AND MAIN JUSTICE.

WAS IT A TOP-DOWN EDICT THING, WHERE YOU GOT FROM ATTORNEY GENERAL GARLAND YOU'RE GOING TO GOING TO DO X, Y, AND Z TO EFFECTUATE THE POLICY GOALS AND IDEOLOGICAL GOALS OF THE ADMINISTRATION?

WERE YOU EMPOWERED TO SORT OF TELL HIM, LIKE, NO, MAN THIS IS WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN NEW MEXICO?

OR WAS IT A BIT OF A MIX?

HOW DID THAT WORK?

>> Uballez: SO, ONE OF THE FIRST CONVERSATIONS I HAD WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IN D.C. WAS EARLY IN MY TENURE WE GO FOR ORIENTATION.

GROUPS OF US, AS WE'RE SWORN IN.

AND ONE OF HIS EDICTS HAD BEEN VIOLENT CRIME IS OUR PRIORITY.

YOU NEED TO REDUCE VIOLENT CRIME.

WHAT I TOLD HIM IS LIKE HAVING DONE THIS ANALYSIS AND THIS THOUGHT IN MY PROJECT SAFE NEIGHBORHOODS PROGRAM AND THE POLICIES AND THE TARGETING AND FOCUS OF HOW WE BEST USE OUR RESOURCES, I SAID, SIR, TO ACCOMPLISH THIS GOAL WE'RE GOING TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WE CHARGE.

SO, WHEN YOU COME TO US AND YOU SAY WHAT ARE YOUR STATS ON 922, WHAT ARE YOUR STATS ON VIOLENT CRIME PROSECUTIONS, WE'RE GOING TO SAY THEY'RE LOWER.

BUT WE'RE DOING IT BECAUSE OF THIS PROGRAM THAT WE'RE INVESTING IN THAT BOTH INVESTS MORE TIME AND ENERGY INTO MORE MEANINGFUL CASES, BUT ALSO TIME AND ENERGY INTO THE PREVENTION AND INTERVENTION PIECE.

THAT'S GOING TO MEAN THAT WE ARE, ON PAPER, LESS EFFECTIVE, BUT IT WILL WORK.

HE'S LIKE AS LONG AS VIOLENT CRIME DROPS, I HAVE YOUR BACK.

SO IT WAS REALLY IMPACTFUL FOR ME.

THAT IS HOW HE'S LED THIS DEPARTMENT.

I BELIEVE HE WAS HIRED TO RETURN US TO THE TRADITIONAL NORMS IN THE DEPARTMENTS AND DOING THINGS RIGHT, AND FOR THE RIGHT REASONS AND THE RIGHT WAY EVERY TIME.

AND A PIECE OF THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN, AND PART OF THE STRUCTURE OF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICES, IS THAT EVERY ONE OF OUR LOCALITIES NEEDS A DIFFERENT SOLUTION.

THE LOCAL NEEDS ARE DIFFERENT EVERYWHERE.

THAT'S WHY THERE'S SO MANY OF US.

AND HE KNOWS THAT.

HE HAS THE JOB OF KEEPING THE BIG GOAL, THE BIG MISSION, IN MIND AND DRIVING US TOWARD THAT.

AND WE HAVE THE JOB OF DETERMINING HOW TO DO IT.

THERE IS, IN THE ORGANIZATIONAL CHART, IT'S THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL, AND THEN EVERYBODY ELSE.

AND THERE'S 93 UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS.

AND, FRANKLY, THERE'S TOO MANY OF US TO MANAGE EFFECTIVELY.

OR TO MICROMANAGE EFFECTIVELY, I SHOULD SAY.

SO, WE WERE GIVEN THE BROAD STROKES MISSION, AND THE MANDATE TO DO IT.

BUT THE HOW WAS LEFT UP TO US.

AND A LOT OF THAT REALLY WAS AN ITERATIVE PROCESS THAT I'VE LOVED AMONG THE U.S. ATTORNEY COMMUNITY AND TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS WORKING AND SHARING DIFFERENT PROGRAMS THAT WORKED HERE OR DIDN'T WORK HERE AND OUR EXPERIENCES AND OUR RESOURCES TO IMPROVE THE SERVICE THAT WE GIVE TO THE PEOPLE HERE.

WHICH, AT THE END OF THE DAY, IS OUR GOAL.

REALLY, WE TAG EVERYTHING, WE MUST TAG EVERYTHING TO THE GOAL.

WHICH IS, IF YOU'RE TALKING VIOLENT CRIME, REDUCTION IN MURDERS, OR REDUCTION IN SHOOTING, REDUCTION OF ROBBERIES.

IF YOU'RE TALKING FENTANYL AND DRUGS AND OVERDOSES, YOU'RE TALKING REDUCTIONS OF OVERDOSES.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE HERE TO SAVE LIVES.

IF WE'RE NOT DOING THAT, WE'RE NOT DOING OUR JOB NO MATTER WHAT THE NUMBERS SAY, NO MATTER WHAT THE STATS SAY.

IT'S THE LIVES.

>> Jeff: OKAY.

LET'S CATCH OUR BREATH AGAIN BEFORE WE DIVE IN ONE LAST TIME WITH U.S. ATTORNEY ALEXANDER UBALLEZ.

WE BEGIN THE FINAL PART OF OUR DISCUSSION WITH ANOTHER CASE INVOLVING POSSIBLE CRIMES COMMITTED BY THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE OF SOLVING THEM.

THIS TIME, WE'LL FOCUS ON A FORMER NEW MEXICO SHERIFF AND POLICE CHIEF NAMED IN AN ALLEGED ILLEGAL FIREARMS CONSPIRACY THAT SPANS FOUR STATES.

HAVING GOTTEN TO KNOW YOU A LITTLE BIT OVER THE COURSE OF THE PAST COUPLE YEARS, I KNOW WHEN IT COMES TO VIOLENT CRIME AND THINGS LIKE FENTANYL, YOU ARE A DEEPER THINKER THAN SIMPLY AN ANALYSIS OF ARREST THEM, GET THEM TO PLEA, LOCK THEM UP.

WHAT, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, AND IN THE POSITION YOU'RE IN, IS DRIVING THE CRIME AND THE FENTANYL USE THAT IS IMPACTING OUR COMMUNITY SO DEEPLY?

>> Uballez: GOODNESS.

WE'RE A HALF AN HOUR IN?

>> Jeff: LET'S TRY TO STAY AS BRIEF AS WE CAN.

>> Uballez: WHAT CAUSES THE PROBLEMS?

THAT'S A HUGE QUESTION.

I MEAN, I'LL START WITH PART OUR APPROACH AND WORK BACK FROM THERE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT -- THE MANNER IN WHICH WE CHOOSE TO ENFORCE CRIME HERE IS GUIDED BY A SET OF INTERNAL DOCUMENTS WE HAVE THAT WE DESCRIBE AS INTAKE CRITERIA.

THEY GO THROUGH ALL OF THE COMMON CRIMES THAT WE LOOK AT, AND THEY TELL US WHEN WE SHOULD ADOPT A CASE OR TAKE A CASE OR CHARGE A CASE, OR OPEN INVESTIGATION VERSUS WHEN WE SHOULD NOT.

AS YOU MIGHT IMAGINE, THAT CODE BOOK IS HUGE.

LOTS OF THINGS ARE ILLEGAL, BUT NOT EVERYTHING THAT'S ILLEGAL SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.

SO, ESPECIALLY IN A WORLD THAT WE ALL ALWAYS LIVE IN OF LIMITED RESOURCES, WE HAVE TO PICK FOR IMPACT THE THINGS WE DO.

SO, WHEN I CAME IN, WE COMPLETELY CHANGED OUR INTAKE CRITERIA.

THEY'RE AN ITERATIVE PROCESS.

THEY'VE BEEN DEVELOPED, OVER DECADES OF DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATIONS, TO HELP US BALANCE THESE EQUITIES.

BUT WHAT WE REALLY FELT WAS THAT IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO PUT UPFRONT THE WHY.

SO, THAT'S WHAT WE SAID.

THERE'S AN INTRODUCTION TO IT, AND IT SAYS, YOU KNOW, WE PICK CASES FOR IMPACT.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF FACTORS THAT INDICATE A PERSON OR A GROUP MIGHT BE THREATS TO COMMUNITY SAFETY, THOSE ARE THE REASONS WE CHOOSE WHO WE INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE.

NOT, FOR EXAMPLE, SIMPLY BASED ON THE WEIGHT OF THE DRUG THAT IS SEIZED.

WHICH HAS BEEN A TRADITIONAL METRIC.

>> Jeff: CAN YOU PROSECUTE IT.

SHOULD WE -- >> Uballez: SHOULD WE IS THE BIGGEST QUESTION THAT WE ARE FACED WITH, AND THE MOST SOLEMN RESPONSIBILITY THAT WE HAVE AND WHY JUDGMENT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT QUALITY THAT I HIRE FOR IN AUSAs.

BECAUSE WE AS LAWYERS CAN ALL DO THE ANALYSIS LEGALLY, WE CAN FIT THE FACTS, WE CAN WRITE VERY WELL.

BUT HAVING THE ADJUSTMENT TO KNOW WHEN WE SHOULD USE THESE TOOLS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR SERVING THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.

SO, WHEN WE SET THESE STANDARDS, WE THEN LINKED THINGS LIKE GUN CRIMES, WHEN WE CHARGED GUN CRIMES, TO BIGGER POLICY NEEDS.

SO, WE SAID, WE'LL CHARGE GUN CRIMES, WE'LL CHARGE, FRANKLY, ANY CRIME IF WE CAN SHOW A PERSON IS A THREAT TO THE COMMUNITY THROUGH RECENT SHOOTINGS, REPEATED DOMESTIC VIOLENCE INCIDENTS, INVOLVEMENT OF CHILDREN OR DRUGS.

THERE'S A NUMBER OF FACTORS, YOU MIGHT IMAGINE.

BUT IT WAS ALL FOCUSED ON IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY.

THIS FRAMEWORK EXTENDS THROUGHOUT OUR INTAKE STRUCTURE.

SO, IT'S NOT JUST GUN CRIMES, BUT IT'S WHEN WE ENFORCE TITLE EIGHT, IMMIGRATION CASES.

IT'S WHEN WE DO DRUG CASES.

ONE OF THOSE INTAKE FACTORS IS TIES TO A LARGE-SCALE DRUG TRAFFICKING ORGANIZATION.

BECAUSE WE BELIEVE THAT FOCUSING ON THE SUPPLY SIDE IS A WAY TO IMPACT THE DRUGS HERE.

SO, BY THIS TARGETED APPROACH, WE ARE ABLE TO USE THIS ONE TOOL OF MANY TO HELP DRIVE DOWN CRIME.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, HELP SAVE LIVES.

WHAT THAT MEANS IS BOTH TARGETING, VERY SPECIFICALLY, WE HAVE A PARTNERSHIP, A VERY CLOSE ONE, WITH THE SECOND JUDICIAL DISTRICT ATTORNEY.

WE HAVE A PERSON IN OUR OFFICE WHO IS FROM -- FROM THEIR OFFICE.

THEY PAY FOR IT, THANKFULLY.

WHO REVIEWS EVERY SINGLE FELONY CRIMINAL COMPLAINT IN BERNALILLO COUNTY EVERY SINGLE DAY.

WE DO IT FOR THIS, FOR IMPACT.

WE'RE LOOKING FOR VIOLENT CRIME.

IF WE HAVE A FEDERAL HOOK, AND WE HAVE SOMEONE WHO IS DRIVING VIOLENT CRIME, WE BRING THEM OVER TO FEDERAL COURT.

THIS IS A PIECE OF A BROADER PROGRAM, THE VIOLENCE INTERVENTION PROGRAM I WAS TALKING ABOUT BEFORE.

THE OTHER COMPONENT IS WE GO OUT AND TALK TO PEOPLE WHO ARE HIGH RISK.

WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY FOLKS WHO, THROUGH -- AND THIS IS SCIENCE AND THIS IS NOT CHARGING, THROUGH PROXIMITY TO VIOLENCE ITSELF.

THROUGH BEING A VICTIM OR PERPETRATOR OR WITNESS TO GUN VIOLENCE, DRAMATICALLY INCREASES THE CHANCES THAT YOU YOURSELF WILL COMMIT VIOLENCE OF SOME KIND.

INSTEAD OF SITTING BACK AND WAITING FOR THEM TO DO THAT AND THEN CHARGING THEM AND DROPPING THE HAMMER, WE GO OUT PROACTIVELY.

WE DO THIS WITH THE MAYOR, AND THE CHIEF OF POLICE, WITH TRAUMA SURGEONS, SURVIVORS, FAMILY MEMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN KILLED, AND PEOPLE, WE CALL THEM CREDIBLE MESSENGERS, WE'VE CHARGED WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED AND DONE TIME AND DELIVER A CONVINCING MESSAGE TO PEOPLE MOST AT RISK.

WHICH BEGINS, ALWAYS, WITH WE CARE ABOUT YOU.

WE WANT YOU TO BE SAFE, ALIVE, AND FREE.

THE SHOOTING HAS TO STOP.

SO, WE'LL HELP YOU.

WE HAVE ALL THESE SOCIAL SERVICES.

THE CITY, THROUGH ACS, HAS REALLY PROVIDED A LOT OF SUPPORT HERE.

WE'LL HELP YOU IF YOU LET US.

WE, THE FEDS, WE'LL STOP YOU IF YOU MAKE US.

SO, IN THIS WAY, WE'VE DRAWN DOWN THE RESOURCES WE'VE DEDICATED SIMPLY TO PROSECUTION.

AND THE NUMBERS OF CASES WE PROSECUTED HAVE ALSO FALLEN.

BUT HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE WHICH IS THE PROJECT SAFE NEIGHBORHOODS ZONE, SINCE 2021, HOMICIDES HAVE DROPPED BY 30%.

ROBBERIES HAVE DROPPED BY 40%.

I THINK THAT THIS IS A FUNCTION.

THIS IS NOT JUST US, THIS IS THE TEAM.

THIS IS A FUNCTION OF THIS EFFORT THAT COMBINES BOTH STRATEGIC AND TARGETED PROSECUTION AND ENFORCEMENT WITH THE OUTREACH ON THE FRONT END.

THE PROVIDING OF SERVICES AND SUPPORTS, AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, REALLY THIS MESSAGE OF HOPE, I THINK.

I THINK IT'S A HOPEFUL MESSAGE.

OF COURSE, IN THE BACK END, RE-ENTRY.

SUPPORTING PEOPLE WHEN THEY COME BACK INTO OUR COMMUNITIES.

VIOLENCE IS ONE ISSUE THAT'S DRIVEN BY MANY THINGS, AS WE KNOW.

IT'S DRIVEN BY POVERTY, BY MENTAL ILLNESS, BY DRUG ADDICTION.

BUT, OFTEN, IT IS THE LAST AND DESPERATE ACT OF SOMEONE FOR WHOM EVEN THE LITTLE THINGS HAVE BECOME TOO MUCH.

AND IF WE CAN PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR EVEN JUST THE LITTLE THINGS WE MIGHT PREVENT THEM FROM MOVING OVER THAT LAST HUMP INTO VIOLENCE.

THAT IS REALLY THE THEORY OF HOW THIS PROGRAM WORKS.

ADDICTION BEING A DRIVER THERE IS ITSELF A PROBLEM THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS.

A STEP BACKWARD, WHICH IS WHY WE FOCUS ON ORGANIZED CRIME, WHICH IS WHY WE DO A LOT OF INTERNATIONAL WORK WITH OUR PARTNERS DOWN IN MEXICO.

AND WHY WE FOCUS ON ORGANIZATIONS AND COMMAND AND CONTROL STRUCTURES.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, ON SEIZING ASSETS AND MONEY.

BECAUSE THAT REALLY IS THE DRIVER.

AND ON THE OTHER END, WE WORK ON PREVENTION AND OUTREACH AND EDUCATION.

WE GO AND TALK WITH PEOPLE ABOUT THE THREATS THAT THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND.

LIKE THE COUNTERFEIT OXYCODONE PILLS, WHO UP UNTIL RECENTLY, FOLKS DIDN'T KNOW THAT WAS NOT A REAL MEDICAL DRUG.

SO, WE DO A LOT OF WORK ON THAT END.

WE DO IT WITH OUR PARTNERS, AGAIN, AND THROUGH THEIR OUTREACH AND A LOT OF OTHER FACTORS.

INCLUDING THE PROLIFERATION OF NARCAN, ACS HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

SINCE 2021, THE NUMBER OF OVERDOSES IN NEW MEXICO HAS DROPPED BY ABOUT 20%.

SO, I KEEP THESE NUMBERS AND I MENTION THEM BECAUSE IMPACT IS WHAT MATTERS.

IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MANY PEOPLE WE PROSECUTED, OR THE NUMBER OF YEARS THEY GET.

WHAT MATTERS IS THE LIVES SAVED.

AND WE HAVE SAVED LIVES.

>> Jeff: A COUPLE MORE SPECIFICS BEFORE WE GET TO THE END.

ONE OF THEM BEING IT BROKE IN THE NEWS BACK IN OCTOBER OF 2023 THAT A COUPLE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS AROUND THE COUNTRY HAD BEEN INDICTED IN WHAT FEDERAL PROSECUTORS DESCRIBED AS A MULTI-STATE ILLEGAL MACHINE GUN RUNNING SCHEME.

THE FORMER BERNALILLO COUNTY SHERIFF, MANNY GONZALES, AND RUDY MORA, WHO IS THE FORMER LAGUNA PUEBLO POLICE CHIEF AND ALSO MANNY'S FORMER UNDERSHERIFF, WERE NAMED BY INITIALS IN THOSE INDICTMENTS BUT NEVER CHARGED.

I'M CURIOUS, IS THERE SOMEONE IN YOUR OFFICE WHO IS TRYING TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF WHETHER MANNY AND RUDY COMMITTED CRIMES?

>> Uballez: I CAN'T COMMENT ON A SPECIFIC CASE.

AND I ALSO CAN'T CONFIRM THE INITIALS IN THE INDICTMENT OUT OF MARYLAND.

BUT, I WILL SAY THAT WE INVESTIGATE EVERY CRIME PROPOSED TO US.

AND WE DON'T LEAVE STONES UNTURNED SIMPLY BECAUSE ANOTHER JURISDICTION IS INVOLVED.

WE TAKE VERY SERIOUSLY EVERY REFERRAL OVER TO OUR OFFICE, EVERY REFERRAL TO LAW ENFORCEMENT.

AND THE PUBLIC CAN TRUST THAT WE WILL NOT IGNORE A THING BECAUSE SOMEBODY ELSE IS WORKING ON IT.

>> Jeff: OKAY.

THE LAST SPECIFIC IS THIS, WE'VE TALKED A LOT TODAY ABOUT THE OFFICE AND THINGS AND ISSUES THAT PEOPLE TYPICALLY ASSOCIATE WITH IT.

I WANT TO ASK A QUESTION ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE WHICH IS, OF COURSE, THE BIGGEST CRISIS EVER FACING OUR STATE AND OUR SPECIES.

DURING YOUR TIME IN OFFICE, HAVE YOU DONE ANY THINKING ABOUT WHETHER A U.S. ATTORNEY COULD DO SOMETHING, OR DO MORE, TO COMBAT CLIMATE CHANGE?

>> Uballez: SURE.

THERE ARE METHODS.

I THINK THE TOOL THOUGH IS ILL-FIT FOR THE JOB.

SO, OF COURSE, THERE ARE CRIMINAL STATUTES AROUND ENFORCING ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS.

ALTHOUGH, WE DO USE THOSE.

ENFORCEMENT, SADLY, IN THIS AREA I THINK COMES TOO LATE.

THE DAMAGE IS DONE.

REALLY, IN THE AREA OF CLIMATE CHANGE, AND I'M STEPPING OUTSIDE MY AREA OF EXPERTISE, BUT MY FEELING IS THAT IN THE AREA OF CLIMATE CHANGE WE REALLY NEED TO BE ON THE FRONT END OF IT.

TECHNOLOGICALLY, IN TERMS OF OUR REGULATIONS, IN TERMS OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE STATE, WE NEED TO GET AHEAD OF IT.

BECAUSE BY THE TIME THE DAMAGE IS DONE, IT IS TRULY TOO LATE.

SURE, WE'LL COME IN AND SURE WE'LL ENFORCE AND DROP PENALTIES ON PEOPLE, BUT CLIMATE CHANGE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO THINK BIG AND TO BE INNOVATIVE AND FOR THE GOVERNMENT'S SIDE, REALLY, IT DOESN'T SIT IN THE CRIMINAL AND CIVIL PIECES THAT I SUPERVISE NOW, BUT IN A VAST ADMINISTRATIVE STATE AND BUREAUCRACY THAT HELPS MANAGE HOW WE APPROACH PROTECTING OUR ENVIRONMENT.

THAT IS THE AREA THAT NEEDS THE FOCUS IF WE'RE GOING TO TRULY TAKE STEPS TO OUR WORLD.

>> Jeff: LAST COUPLE OF QUESTIONS, ALEX.

I APPRECIATE ALL THE TIME.

YOU TALK ABOUT EQUITIES.

YOU TALK ABOUT THE RESPONSIBILITY THAT COMES WITH THE FEDERAL HAMMER.

YOU'RE A DIFFERENT CAT.

I'VE KNOWN A LOT OF FEDERAL PROSECUTORS, AND A NUMBER OF U.S.

ATTORNEYS IN THIS DISTRICT.

I'VE NEVER HEARD FOLKS IN THOSE POSITIONS TALK THE WAY YOU DO.

FOR A GUY LIKE YOU, ASSUMING THAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO GET CANNED OR ASKED TO RESIGN, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO NEXT?

>> Uballez: I'M GOING TO SERVE THE PEOPLE OF NEW MEXICO.

IT'S WHAT I'VE ALWAYS DONE.

IT'S WHAT'S DRIVEN ME TO WHERE I AM TODAY.

AND IT REALLY IS NEVER BEEN A DRIVE FOR A POSITION OR A TITLE.

IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A DRIVE TO DO THE THINGS THAT MAKE SENSE TO MAKE THIS PLACE BETTER AND SAFER FOR ALL NEW MEXICANS.

SO, WHEN I SIGNED UP TO BECOME PROSECUTOR, WHEN I JOINED THE U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, IT WAS NEVER ON MY BINGO CARD TO BECOME THE UNITED STATES' ATTORNEY.

THIS WAS NEVER MY GOAL.

FRANKLY, LOOKING AT THE END OF MY CAREER, THERE'S SOME REGRET.

BECAUSE BECOMING AN AUSA WAS MY DREAM JOB.

BECOMING A FEDERAL PROSECUTOR WAS WHAT I WANTED TO DO WITH MY LAW LICENSE.

SO, THAT CONTINUES TO DRIVE ME.

MY SPECIALTIES, OBVIOUSLY, LIE IN PUBLIC SAFETY AND THE JUSTICE SYSTEM WITH A HUGE, YOU KNOW, PIECE OF MY CAREER DEDICATED TO SERVING CHILDREN.

BUT ALL THAT BEING SAID, I CAN HONESTLY TELL YOU I DON'T KNOW WHERE I'LL BE IN A FEW WEEKS.

BUT I KNOW THAT I'M REALLY BAD OF AT DOING THINGS I DON'T CARE ABOUT, AND A LOT BETTER AT DOING THINGS THAT I DO.

I WILL CONTINUE TO SERVE THE PEOPLE OF NEW MEXICO, AND I'LL FIND A WAY TO DO THAT.

>> Jeff: OKAY.

SO, MY LAST QUESTION IS GOING TO DATE ME AND PEOPLE ARE TOTALLY GOING TO JUDGE ME FOR THIS, BUT I DON'T CARE.

I AM A FAN OF THE AARON SORKIN SHOW 'THE WEST WING,' WHICH ROMANTICIZED AND POPULARIZED THE NOTION OF AN OUTGOING PRESIDENT SITTING DOWN WITH PEN AND PAPER AND SCRATCHING OUT A LETTER TO THE SUCCESSOR, THE NEXT PRESIDENT COMING IN, PUTTING IT IN AN ENVELOPE AND STUFFING IT IN A DRAWER OF THE RESOLUTE DESK IN THE OVAL OFFICE.

IF YOU WERE GOING TO DO THAT FOR WHOEVER TAKES YOUR JOB AFTER YOU, WHAT WOULD THE LETTER SAY?

>> Uballez: THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I DO -- I THINK I WILL WRITE A LETTER.

I'VE BEEN THINKING A LOT ABOUT IT.

I'VE BEEN THINKING A LOT ABOUT THE LESSONS I'VE LEARNED, AND THE FRAMEWORK THAT WILL HELP AN INCOMING UNITED STATES ATTORNEY.

THE MOST IMPORTANT FRAME FOR THIS JOB THAT I'VE HAD IS THAT IT IS NOT ME, RIGHT?

I'M A TEMPORARY CUSTODIAN OF A ROLE THAT BELONGS TO THE PEOPLE.

SO, MY JOB ISN'T TO TALK ABOUT ME.

MY JOB ISN'T TO MAKE MYSELF LOOK GOOD IN PUBLIC OR TO POLISH A RESUME OR TO HAVE ACHIEVEMENTS THAT I CAN RADDLE OFF.

MY JOB IS TO STEWARD THIS OFFICE AND ITS MISSION.

SO, IN THAT FRAME, ALWAYS THINK ABOUT HOW YOU CAN MAKE THIS OFFICE BETTER, SO THAT IT SERVES THE PEOPLE BETTER.

IN THAT, YOU KNOW, I'VE LEARNED A COUPLE OF LESSONS JUST ABOUT LEADERSHIP.

BECAUSE BEFORE I BECAME THE UNITED STATES ATTORNEY, I NEVER LED ANYTHING.

NO ONE IS A LEADER UNTIL THEY ARE.

AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU HAVE EVERYONE'S EYES ON YOU AND EVERYONE IS EXPECTING YOU TO MAKE DECISIONS.

SO, I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS, YOU KNOW, AS LAWYERS, AS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, LAWYERS IT'S VERY EASY FOR US TO GET CAUGHT IN THE CASE, IN THE SPECIFICS AND LEGALITIES.

IT'S COMFORTABLE FOR US.

BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO LEAD THE OFFICE, YOU NEED TO DREAM BIG.

YOU CAN'T JUST THINK ABOUT THE NUMBER OF PROSECUTIONS OR PERFECTING THE ARGUMENTS THAT WE MAKE IN COURT.

YOU HAVE TO DREAM AS IF WE HAVE THE POWER TO CREATE A WORLD THAT WE DESERVE TO LIVE IN.

WE HAVE A SAFER WORLD FOR THE PEOPLE HERE IN NEW MEXICO, AND KEEPING THAT DREAM IN MIND, KEEPING THE GOALS BIG, WILL ALWAYS PUSH YOU FORWARD.

AND YOU WILL FAIL.

WE ALL FAIL.

YOU WILL ALL FALL SHORT.

I FEEL LIKE I HAVE A LOT STILL INCOMPLETE HERE.

BUT WHAT MATTERS IS HAVING THAT BIG DREAM, AND ALWAYS PURSUING IT, AND NEVER LOSING SIGHT OF THAT AS YOUR NORTH STAR, WHICH IS PUBLIC SAFETY HERE.

MAKING THIS PLACE BETTER FOR NEW MEXICANS.

AND I THINK, FINALLY, IS FORGIVENESS.

I'M BIG ON FORGIVENESS.

IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE WORLD, IT'S A THING THAT WE DON'T THIN TOO MUCH ABOUT, OR WE DON'T THINK ENOUGH ABOUT, I SHOULD SAY.

BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU KNOW, AS LAWYERS WE GO IN A COURT, WE MAKE SOMEBODY PLEA TO SOMETHING, THEY ACCEPT THEIR RESPONSIBILITY, THEY GO TO PRISON, AND WE FEEL LIKE THE JOB IS DONE.

BUT THE REBUILDING OF THE COMMUNITY HAPPENS WHEN THE PERSON COMES BACK TO THE COMMUNITY.

THE REBUILDING OF THE COMMUNITY HAPPENS WHEN WE, ALL TOGETHER, PROSECUTORS, DEFENSE ATTORNEYS, DEFENDANTS, VICTIMS, WITNESSES, ENGAGE IN FORGIVENESS WITH EACH OTHER.

ACCEPTING THAT WE ARE ALL PEOPLE AND THAT WE ALL FALL SHORT.

SO, IN THAT FRAME, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR A NEW U.S. ATTORNEY TO FORGIVE THEMSELVES FOR THEIR FAILURES.

BECAUSE THEY WILL FAIL.

FORGIVE THEIR STAFF WHEN THEY DO TOO.

AND REMEMBER ALWAYS TO EXTEND THAT GRACE TO EVERYONE WE DEAL WITH, INCLUDING DEFENDANTS.

THIS ISN'T A COMPETITION.

WE DON'T WIN WHEN WE CONVICT THE MOST PEOPLE, OR YOU ACHIEVE THE BIGGEST SENTENCES.

WE WIN WHEN THE COMMUNITY IS SAFER.

IF A CONVICTION OR SENTENCE WILL HELP THAT, THEN WE DO THAT.

WE HAVE TO ALWAYS KEEP OUR MIND ON THAT GOAL, AND IT REALLY IS TRULY TIED TO FORGIVENESS.

BECAUSE IT'S SO EASY TO FIND FAULT WITH PEOPLE.

IT'S SO EASY TO FIND SOMETHING THAT SOMEBODY HAS DONE WRONG.

I TOLD YOU, THAT CODE BOOK IS HUGE.

IT'S NOT HARD TO FIND CRIMES OR FAULTS OR FAILURES.

THAT'S WHAT WE DO AS LAWYERS.

IT'S OUR WEAKNESS, I THINK.

BUT OUR STRENGTH IS IN THE ABILITY TO OVERCOME THE SHORTCOMINGS THAT WE SEE IN OTHERS AND IN OURSELVES, AND TO FORGIVE THEM.

THAT'S THE ONLY WAY WE MOVE FORWARD.

>> Jeff: ALEX UBALLEZ, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO, THANK YOU FOR SO MUCH FOR THE CHAT.

I SURE APPRECIATE IT.

>> Uballez: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE.

>> Jeff: GETTING NEARLY 50 MINUTES IN A SORT OF ASK-ME-ANYTHING FORMAT, WITH THE TOP FEDERAL PROSECUTOR IN ANY DISTRICT, IS A RARE OPPORTUNITY FOR A JOURNALIST.

WE HOPE YOU ENJOYED THE CONVERSATION, AND HERE'S HOPING WHOEVER GETS THE U.S. ATTORNEY GIG FOR NEW MEXICO NEXT WILL BE AS OPEN TO DEMYSTIFYING SUCH A HISTORICALLY OPAQUE INSTITUTION AS ALEX UBALLEZ HAS BEEN.

WITH MOST FOLKS BACK TO WORK IN THE LAST WEEK OR TWO AFTER THE HOLIDAY BREAK, WE'RE GOING TO SHIFT GEARS AND LEAVE YOU WITH PART OF AN INTERVIEW SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DiVIZIO DID FOR OUR LABOR DAY EPISODE LAST YEAR.

HERE, UNM LABOR HISTORIAN DR. JASON SCOTT SMITH TALKS ABOUT THE PERCEPTION OF A SHRINKING MIDDLE CLASS, AND WHAT POLICY REMEDIES COULD HELP NARROW GROWING ECONOMIC INEQUALITY.

>> Lou: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE MIDDLE CLASS FOR A LITTLE WHILE.

THE PERCEPTION OF THE MIDDLE CLASS.

WHAT ARE MIDDLE-CLASS JOBS IN 2024, AND HOW DOES THE STANDARD OF LIVING FOR THOSE WORKERS COMPARE TO THAT OF PEOPLE DECADES EARLIER?

>> Smith: THIS IS A GREAT QUESTION, AND IT'S A COMPLICATED QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S HARD TO COMPARE OVER TIME.

OCCUPATIONS TODAY THAT PROVIDE AND SUPPORT A MIDDLE-CLASS EXISTENCE FOR WORKERS, WE CAN SEE THIS IN THE HEALTH CARE FIELD, HEALTH CARE SECTOR, IN PARTS OF THE EDUCATIONAL SECTOR, LEGAL SERVICES, BUSINESS AND FINANCIAL SERVICES.

AND YOU CAN SEE IN THESE SECTORS AND WITH THESE WORKERS THAT THERE'S THIS ABILITY TO ACHIEVE A MODUS VIVENDI, IN TERMS OF STANDARD LIVING.

BUT THE DIFFICULTIES IN TERM -- WE READ A LOT ABOUT INFLATION AND THE PRICE OF GOODS.

THE PRICE OF HOUSING.

ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE.

THESE ARE ALL THINGS THAT ARE PREVALENT IN SOCIETY TODAY AND FOR MANY IN THE MIDDLE CLASS, PEOPLE ARE JUST ONE MEDICAL EMERGENCY AWAY FROM DROPPING OUT OF THE MIDDLE CLASS.

AND IT'S, IN PART, BECAUSE OF THE STRESSORS OF ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL, SOCIAL EXISTENCE.

>> Lou: OKAY.

IS THERE ANY CORRELATION BETWEEN DECLINING UNION MEMBERSHIP AND THE SHRINKING OF AMERICA'S MIDDLE CLASS?

>> Smith: I MEAN, WE CAN SEE THE CORRELATION IN THE SENSE IF WE PLOT THEM WE CAN SEE THE ARROWS GOING THE SAME DIRECTION.

ONE THING YOU CAN ALSO LOOK AT, THIS MOMENT OF AMERICAN PROSPERITY THAT WE ASSOCIATE WITH THE END OF WORLD WAR II THROUGH THE 1970s.

AMERICAN GDP PER CAPITA GROWS AT ABOUT 3% PER PERSON PER YEAR FROM 1940 THROUGH 1973.

AND WE OFTEN LOOK BACK OR REFLEXIVELY THINK OF THIS AS A BASELINE FOR THIS IS HOW THINGS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE, AND FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF 2024, WE MIGHT ALSO START TO THINK THAT PERIOD IS ALMOST A HISTORICALLY CONTINGENT ACCIDENTAL MOMENT WHERE A STRONG LABOR MOVEMENT COINCIDED WITH AN AMERICAN ECONOMY THAT WAS THE STRONGEST ON THE PLANET.

YOU KNOW, GERMANY WAS OFFLINE WITH WORLD WAR II AND THE AFTERMATH.

JAPAN, TWO ATOMIC BOMBS, DEVASTATION.

THE U.S. AND ITS ECONOMY IN A LARGE SENSE, IN A GLOBAL SENSE, GOT A FREE RIDE FROM 1940 THROUGH THE EARLY 1970s, AND WE START TO SEE THE INTENSITY OF GLOBAL COMPETITION PUT AMERICAN COMPANIES, AMERICAN WORKERS UNDER GREATER STRESS AND WE'RE STILL LIVING WITH THAT KIND OF FALLOUT TODAY.

>> Lou: OKAY.

NOW, IT WOULD BE NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO PLAN TO REPLICATE A SCENARIO LIKE THAT AGAIN, AS I HEAR YOU SAYING.

BUT IS IT POSSIBLE, GIVEN OUR CURRENT SITUATION, TO REBUILD A THRIVING MIDDLE CLASS?

>> Smith: I MEAN, YES.

THE QUESTION ABOUT WHAT IS POSSIBLE ALLOWS ME TO GET -- I WON'T ACTUALLY GET ON MY HISTORY SOAPBOX.

I LEFT IT IN THE GREEN ROOM.

BUT THIS IS WHY HISTORY IS SUCH A GREAT DISCIPLINE AND SUCH A GREAT FIELD OF STUDY.

WE CAN LOOK AT THE PAST TO UNDERSTAND IT, BUT ALSO TO GIVE US A PERSPECTIVE ON THE PRESENT AND A WAY TO IMAGINE WHAT THINGS MIGHT BE LIKE IN THE FUTURE, AND HOW WE MIGHT GET THERE.

SO, LOOKING AT CONCRETE PUBLIC POLICIES THAT HAVE BEEN EFFECTIVE IN THE PAST THAT, CERTAINLY, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO ROLL OUT AND HAS ROLLED OUT OVER ITS TIME IN OFFICE, THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT, THE CHIPS ACT, WHAT ARE WAYS THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN ASSIST WORKING PEOPLE IN MAKING STRIDES ECONOMICALLY.

THESE PUBLIC POLICIES CAN HAVE AN IMPACT.

THEY HAVE HAD AN IMPACT IN THE PAST.

WE CAN SEE THAT POTENTIAL FOR THEM TO HAVE AN IMPACT IN THE FUTURE.

I WOULD SAY, YES, THERE ARE POSSIBILITIES FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS TO BE REBUILT.

>> Lou: OKAY.

WE'RE GOING TO HEAR A LOT ABOUT THE ECONOMY IN THE COMING MONTHS WITH THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, OF COURSE.

LOTS OF TALK ABOUT SUCCESSES AND FAILURES OF OUR ECONOMY, BROADLY.

BUT THOSE ASSESSMENTS, THEY DON'T ALWAYS CORRELATE WITH SUCCESS FOR THE FINANCIAL -- OR THE FINANCIAL REALITIES OF FAMILIES, INDIVIDUALS.

HOW SHOULD WE MEASURE ECONOMIC SUCCESS IN THIS COUNTRY?

>> Smith: WOW.

THIS IS, AGAIN, A TERRIFIC QUESTION.

WE CAN MEASURE IT IN ANY NUMBER OF WAYS.

WE HAVE THE CONVENTIONAL ECONOMIC MEASURES OF WHAT IS THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE.

WHAT'S HAPPENING TO REAL WAGES.

WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THE ECONOMIC POSSIBILITIES.

AMERICAN SAVINGS.

CONSUMER DEBT.

WE CAN MEASURES IT IN THESE WAYS, BUT WE CAN ALSO MEASURE IT IN PUBLIC OPINION, IN A SENSE OF OPTIMISM OR PESSIMISM.

I THINK THE KIDS TODAY CALL IT VIBES ABOUT THE PEOPLE HAVE ABOUT THE ECONOMY, AND ABOUT THE POTENTIAL FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR CHILDREN TO DO BETTER GOING FORWARD.

>> Lou: HOW, AS VOTERS, SHOULD WE INTERPRET THE INFORMATION THAT'S GETTING THROWN AT US FROM EITHER CANDIDATE, ANY CANDIDATE, SENATE, HOUSE, YOU NAME IT, IN TERMS OF THE SUCCESSES AND FAILURES?

HOW DO WE INTERPRET THOSE THINGS?

>> Smith: THERE ARE SO MANY LENSES THAT WE AS VOTERS, AS MEDIA CONSUMERS, BRING TO THE TABLE.

I THINK, GIVEN THE NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THINGS THAT OUR EYEBALLS ENCOUNTER EACH DAY, FROM TELEVISION, FROM THE GREAT WORLD OF PBS, BUT ALSO FROM OUR PHONES, OUR COMPUTERS, THE INTERNET, TWITTER, X, WHATEVER IT'S CALLED TODAY.

I THINK, IF ANYTHING, THE KIND OF -- HOW SHOULD WE INTERPRET THIS INFORMATION AND WHAT CANDIDATES SAY CAREFULLY?

WE HAVE TO BE MORE SKEPTICAL THAN EVER BEFORE.

WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL IN HOW WE EVALUATE INFORMATION THAT COMES AT US.

AND, I THINK, TALK.

TALK TO THE PEOPLE IN YOUR COMMUNITY.

TALK TO YOUR FELLOW WORKERS.

TALK TO YOUR NEIGHBORS.

BE ENGAGED.

>> Lou: UNDERSTOOD.

DR. JASON SMITH, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> Smith: THANK YOU.

>> Jeff: THANKS FOR WATCHING OUR SHOW.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.