>> Laura: HI, THERESA.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> Pasqual: HI, LAURA.

HOW YOU DOING?

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> Laura: I WANTED TO START AND I WISH WE WERE ACTUALLY SITTING THERE TOGETHER TODAY RIGHT NOW.

CHACO CANYON, LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE FAMILIAR WITH IT AS A NATIONAL PARK AND A PLACE THEY MIGHT VISIT FOR A DAY OR MAYBE CAMP.

BUT IT IS A LOT MORE THAN THAT TO THE PEOPLE OF THE PUEBLO OF ACOMA AND OTHER TRIBES.

I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY CHACO CANYON IS SO SPECIAL.

>> Pasqual: SURE, CHACO CANYON, AS MOST PEOPLE REFER TO IT AND KNOW IT AS, IS REFERRED TO AS W'AASRBA SHAK'A THERE AT MY HOME COMMUNITY OF ACOMA.

AND IT IS SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE IT PLAYS AN IMPORTANT ROLE IN THE MOVEMENT AND MIGRATION OF OUR PEOPLE AS THEY MADE THEIR WAY INTO PRESENT DAY ACOMA.

MANY PUEBLOS AND MANY TRIBES HAVE SOME KIND OF RELATIONAL CONTEXT TO THAT SPECIAL AND SACRED PLACE.

MANY PUEBLOS REAFFIRM THEIR PRESENT DAY CONNECTION TO THE CHACO AND ALSO HAVE FORAYS AND ORAL HISTORIES THAT TAKE THEM THROUGH THAT GREATER CHACO LANDSCAPE AS THEY MADE THEIR WAY TO THE PRESENT DAY PUEBLOS THAT THEY OCCUPY NOW.

SO, THESE PLACES WERE PLACES WHERE OUR ANCESTRAL PEOPLE AND THEIR CLANS REALLY STARTED TO FORM AND ORGANIZE INTO THE DISTRICT SOCIETIES AND PUEBLO COMMUNITIES THAT WE HAVE TODAY.

SO, THEY BROUGHT THAT KNOWLEDGE, THAT SKILL, THOSE TEACHINGS THAT THEY ACQUIRED OVER CENTURIES OF LIVING ON THE LANDSCAPE.

IT REALLY BROUGHT THAT FORWARD INTO THE PRESENT DAY COMMUNITIES AND SO WHAT WE HAVE NOW IN OUR PUEBLO COMMUNITIES HERE IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO REALLY ARE THE DESCENDANTS OF THOSE PEOPLE, ANCESTRAL PEOPLE WHO ONCE OCCUPIED THOSE LANDS.

SO THAT IS WHAT GIVES IT SPECIAL MEANING.

>> Laura: IN THE LAST, GOSH, MANY DECADES PROBABLY SINCE THE 1940'S, THE SAN JUAN BASIN HAS BEEN A PLACE THAT HAS BEEN DRILLED FOR NATURAL GAS AND MORE RECENTLY FOR SHALE OILS, I THINK IT IS CALLED.

I AM CURIOUS, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE HUNDREDS, THOUSANDS OF WELLS AROUND THAT CHACO LANDSCAPE AND I KNOW THERE IS BROAD IMPACTS BUT WHAT ARE SOME OF THE WAYS IN WHICH THAT DRILLING HAS AFFECTED THE LANDSCAPE AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE A PART OF IT?

>> Pasqual: WE KNOW THAT OVER 90% OF FEDERAL LANDS IN THAT GREATER CHACO LANDSCAPE HAVE ALREADY BEEN PERMITTED FOR EXPLORATION AND DEVELOPMENT.

WHAT THE PUEBLOS AND TRIBES HAVE LONG BEEN ASKING FOR FOR THE FEDERAL AGENCIES IS REALLY THE PROTECTION OF THAT LAST REMAINING, I WOULD SAY, EVEN LESS THAN 10% AS DEVELOPMENT CONTINUES.

WHAT IS LOST IN THAT LANDSCAPE, REALLY, IS EVERYTHING THAT THE DEVELOPMENT TOUCHES, THAT IS NEEDED TO SUPPORT THAT KIND OF EXTRACTION FROM ROADS TO WELL PADS TO THE VISUAL LANDSCAPE, TO THE SOUND SCAPES THAT EXIST, TO THE MIGRATION ROUTES OF WILDLIFE, TO JUST THE ABILITY TO CONNECT WITH A SACRED LANDSCAPE AND ANCESTORS IN QUIETNESS AND PEACE AND SOLITUDE.

ALL OF THAT IS LOST WITH DEVELOPMENT.

AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO FAR TO SEE IT.

WHETHER YOU COME IN FROM THE NORTH SIDE OR COME IN THROUGH THE SOUTH ENTRANCE TO THE PARK, ONE WILL SEE WHAT DIFFERENT TYPES OF EXTRACTION HAVE DONE OVER DECADES OF DEVELOPMENT IN THAT AREA.

BECAUSE MY VILLAGE ACOMA SITS TO THE SOUTH, I HAPPEN TO COME IN FROM THE SOUTH ENTRANCE TO THE PARK.

AND IT IS NEVER LOST ON ME THAT JUST IN THAT SHORT TRIP TO CHACO, THAT ONE CAN SEE URANIUM DEVELOPMENT, WE CAN SEE THE IMPACT OF COAL AND COAL MINING IN THAT AREA AND NOW OIL AND GAS.

AND BECAUSE, AS I SAID, OUR HISTORY ISN'T WRITTEN.

IN OUR PUEBLO COMMUNITIES AND MANY TRIBAL COMMUNITIES, THAT HISTORY, THAT CONNECTION TO PLACES ALL HELD IN THE TRANSMISSION OF OUR LANGUAGES THROUGH THOSE STORIES, PRAYERS AND SONGS.

THAT AS THAT LAND IS DISTURBED AND DEVELOPED, IT BECOMES AS IF ONE IS ERASING THE PAGES OF THAT HISTORY BOOK.

WE CAN'T GROW A NEW LANDSCAPE.

CERTAINLY, ONE MAY SAY, WELL, AFTER THE DEVELOPMENT WE'LL TRY AND REGROW THE GRASS AND THE PLANTS BUT, REALLY, THE CONTEXT IS LOST.

SO, WHEN WE LOSE THAT AND THE ABILITY TO BRING OUR CHILDREN TO THOSE PLACES, TO TEACH THEM, THEN WHAT REALLY WE ARE IMPACTING IS THE ABILITY OF A PRESENT DAY COMMUNITY TO NOT ONLY TRANSMIT THAT KNOWLEDGE BUT ALL OF THE KNOWLEDGE THAT IS CONTAINED WITHIN THAT LANDSCAPE.

OUR ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND CONCEPTS IN TERMS OF CONSERVATION, IN TERMS OF STEWARDSHIP, IN TERMS OF UNDERSTANDING HOW TO DEAL WITH CLIMATE CHANGE.

ALL OF THOSE ANSWERS ARE CONTAINED WITHIN THAT LANDSCAPE BUT IT CAN ONLY BE POSSIBLE IF THOSE COMMUNITIES ARE STILL ALLOWED TO MAKE THAT VERY PRESENT DAY CONNECTION AND ACTIVELY USE THAT LANDSCAPE AS IT WAS INTENDED.

>> Laura: THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAD APPROVED ALMOST 400 NEW DRILLING PERMITS WHICH A COALITION OF TRIBES AND ENVIRONMENTALISTS AND ARCHEOLOGIST HAVE REALLY BEEN OPPOSING AND PUSHING BACK ON THIS DEVELOPMENT FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND NOW TRY TO REVERSE THAT DECISION BUT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS STICKING TO IT.

WHY DO YOU THINK WE, AS A SOCIETY, SEEM UNABLE TO OR UNWILLING TO PROTECT THESE MOST SPECIAL AND LIMITED OF PLACES?

>> Pasqual: I THINK IT IS HARD FOR ALL OF US BECAUSE WE ARE NOT WILLING TO MAKE THAT SACRIFICE.

PROTECTING SOME OF THESE SPECIAL PLACES REQUIRES HARD WORK, COMMITMENT, DEDICATION OF RESOURCES BUT ALSO SACRIFICE ON OUR OWN PERSONAL PART.

WE ALL LIVE IN AN ENVIRONMENT THAT IS HEAVILY DEPENDENT ON OIL AND GAS AND WE HAVEN'T REALLY INVESTED LONG ENOUGH WITH ENOUGH RESOURCES TO START REALLY MOVING US AWAY.

WE HAVE JUST REALLY BEGUN THAT TRANSITION HERE IN THE STATE.

BUT WHAT WE NEED IS REALLY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THAT IMPACT ON PRESENT DAY COMMUNITIES AND WHAT IS LOST IF WE FAIL TO ACT, IF WE FAIL TO MOVE, IF WE FAIL TO MAKE THAT COMMITMENT TOWARDS CHANGE.

>> Laura: THANK YOU THERESA.

I APPRECIATE YOU TALKING WITH ME.

>> Pasqual: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.