>> Danielle: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME TODAY,  LAURA.

>> Paskus: THANKS FOR BEING  HERE, DANI.

>> Danielle: I WANT TO START  WITH THIS, WHY HAVE YOU DEDICATED YOUR CAREER TO  TELLING STORIES ABOUT A TOPIC THAT SO MANY IN THE  PUBLIC HAVE ALREADY DECIDED IS INEVITABLE?

THE CLIMATE WILL CHANGE, WE CANNOT STOP IT, AND THAT  ADAPTATION IS USELESS.

>> Paskus: THAT'S A GREAT  QUESTION.

I THINK, ONE, BECAUSE I LOVE  BEING OUTSIDE.

AND THAT IS AN OUTSIDE  STORY.

IT IS A STORY THAT NEEDS TO  BE TOLD FROM THE GROUND UP.

IT NEEDS TO BE TOLD WHEN  YOU'RE WATCHING RIVERS AND WILDLIFE AND BEING IN  COMMUNITY.

AND I REALLY THINK THAT, YOU  KNOW, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS IN MY DREAM WORLD, HUMANS  GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER AND WE DECIDE TO DRASTICALLY CUT  OUR GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS.

BUT NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, THIS WORLD AND SPECIFICALLY  THIS BEAUTIFUL STATE WHERE WE LIVE IS WORTH FIGHTING  FOR AND WORTH LOVING AND WORTH BEING JOYFUL IN AND  WORRIED ABOUT AND EDUCATED ABOUT NO MATTER WHAT CLIMATE  STATE ITS IN.

>> Danielle: YOU'VE SPENT A  LOT OF YOUR LIFE WITNESSING THE CHANGES OF CLIMATE.

YOU'VE WRITTEN A BOOK ABOUT IT AT THE PRECIPICE.

YOU'VE JUST MENTIONED THAT EVEN -- IT'S EVEN MORE  RELEVANT NOW WITNESSING WHAT CLIMATE CHANGE HAS DONE TO  NEW MEXICO.

WHAT'S CHANGED?

WHAT'S STAYED THE SAME?

>> Paskus: YEAH, THE IMPACTS  OF CLIMATE CHANGE IN OUR STATE OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS  THAT I'VE PERSONALLY WITNESSED, BUT REALLY SINCE  THE 1970s WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BIG ARC OF CLIMATE  CHANGE.

OUR RIVERS HAVE LESS WATER  IN THEM.

OUR FORESTS ARE DRIED OUT  AND INSECT-INFESTED AND IN SOME PLACES BURNED DOWN.

OUR GROUNDWATER SUPPLIES HAVE DWINDLED BECAUSE WE  HAVE BEEN POOR CARETAKERS OF OUR GROUNDWATER SUPPLIES.

WE'VE SEEN SPECIES SHIFT AND CHANGE AND DISAPPEAR.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN PUBLIC HEALTH IMPACTS.

WE'VE SEEN ARIDITY.

THERE HAVE BEEN SO MANY  IMPACTS, AND THE THING THAT HASN'T CHANGED IS THERE IS  ALMOST NO POLITICAL ACTION ON CLIMATE CHANGE.

EVEN THE MOST WELL-INTENTIONED POLITICIANS  WHO UNDERSTAND THAT THE CLIMATE IS CHANGING AND  PLEDGE CLIMATE ACTION DURING CAMPAIGNS HAVE DONE  LITERALLY NOTHING TO ADDRESS CLIMATE CHANGE IN NEW MEXICO  AND THE UNITED STATES.

>> Danielle: YOU HOLD ON TO  A LOT OF GRIEF AND A LOT OF ANGER, AND A LOT OF HOPE.

THERE'S A MENTAL HEALTH ASPECT TO CLIMATE COVERAGE  THAT ISN'T VERY WELL-RESPECTED, MAYBE, IN  THE JOURNALISM INDUSTRY.

MAYBE ISN'T WELL-RESPECTED  IN OUR SOCIETY, AS SOMETHING TO HOLD ON TO.

A LOT OF OUR FOCUS IS ON GROWTH, ON ETERNAL YOUTH, ON  CONSUMPTION.

NOT ON WITNESSING,  LISTENING, CRYING.

WHAT ADVICE DO YOU HAVE  ABOUT GRIEF AND ANGER?

>> Paskus: YEAH, AS A  REPORTER, BUT ALSO JUST LIKE AS A PERSON, AS A MOTHER, AS  A FRIEND, AS A COMMUNITY MEMBER, GRIEF IS A PART OF  OUR FULL SPECTRUM OF DAILY EMOTIONS.

AND THE MORE WE EMBRACE GRIEF OVER WHAT WE'VE DONE  TO OUR PLANET AND OUR LANDSCAPES AND THE WILDLIFE  SPECIES WE SHARE THIS PLANET WITH AND TO ONE ANOTHER, THE  MORE WE CAN ACTUALLY COME TO TERMS WITH BEING BETTER  HUMANS MORE RESPECTFUL PEOPLE AND MEMBERS OF THE  COMMUNITY INCLUDING HOW WE TREAT THE MORE-THAN-HUMAN  COMMUNITY.

I THINK THERE HAVE BEEN  TIMES IN MY CAREER AS A REPORTER WHERE, PROBABLY,  EARLY ON I WAS REALLY HESITANT TO BE HONEST ABOUT  THE EMOTIONS I WAS HAVING OVER THINGS LIKE COVERING  THE RIO GRANDE DRYING OR WITNESSING FOREST CHANGES OR  EVEN WITNESSING THE WAYS THAT WE TREAT ONE ANOTHER AS  HUMANS.

AND ONCE I STOPPED BEING  WORRIED WHAT PEOPLE WOULD THINK ABOUT ME IF I SHOWED  ANY SORT OF VULNERABILITY OR EMOTION, I FEEL LIKE MY  REPORTING BECAME BETTER AND DEEPER AND TRUER.

AND THE FEEDBACK I HEARD FROM AUDIENCES AND PEOPLE  WHO EITHER READ BOOKS OR SAW THINGS ON THIS PROGRAM,  PEOPLE NEEDED TO HEAR SOME OF THAT STUFF.

AND THE WAYS IN WHICH AUDIENCE MEMBERS HAVE  RESPONDED HAS MADE ME KNOW THAT BEING VULNERABLE AS A  REPORTER IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

>> Danielle: YOU MAY HAVE FELT LIKE YOU WERE LIMITING  YOURSELF EARLIER IN YOUR CAREER, BUT YOU HAVE NEVER  SHIED AWAY FROM COLONIZATION, VIOLENCE,  GENDERED EXPERIENCE OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

I WANTED TO POINT TO SOMETHING YOU WROTE IN A  2009 MEDITATION ON THE WEST MESA MURDERS.

WHERE YOU WROTE, WE AS A SOCIETY ARE OFTEN  INDIFFERENT TO THE BRUTALITY SUFFERED BY WOMEN AND BY  LANDSCAPES, PARTICULARLY THE ONES THAT DON'T FIT OUR  MORAL OR AESTHETIC IDEALS.

THE PEOPLE AND THE PLACES  OUT ON THE MARGINS.

WHAT DO THESE WORDS MEAN TO  YOU, 15 YEARS LATER?

>> Paskus: YEAH, GOSH,  THAT'S A HARD ONE TO HEAR BECAUSE IT MAKES ME REALLY  ANGRY THAT OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR SOCIETY HERE NEVER CARED  ABOUT THOSE WOMEN ENOUGH TO SOLVE THOSE MURDERS.

WE'VE NEVER PROPERLY GRIEVED THEIR DEATHS, THEIR MURDERS  AND SUPPORTED THEIR FAMILY AFTER SUCH A BRUTAL EPISODE  OF OUR CITY'S HISTORY.

SO, IT MAKES ME REALLY ANGRY  TO THINK ALL THESE YEARS LATER THERE'S STILL BEEN NO  JUSTICE FOR THOSE MURDERS.

>> Danielle: IT'S BEEN A  THROUGHLINE OF INJUSTICE IN YOUR CAREER.

THE CLIMATE STORY, WHILE IT'S OFTEN FRAMED AS SCIENCE  JOURNALISM, IS A STORY OF INJUSTICE.

WHETHER TO NON-HUMAN PLACES, OR ANIMALS, OR ECOSYSTEMS  AND BEINGS, OR VERY STRUCTURALLY RACIST, OR  STRUCTURALLY MISOGYNISTIC SPACES.

WHAT MESSAGE DO YOU HAVE FOR PEOPLE, YOUNG PEOPLE AND  OTHERS, WHO DESPERATELY WANT THIS DIFFERENT WORLD BUT  DON'T FEEL EMPOWERED IN THIS MOMENT?

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THEM?

>> Paskus: YEAH.

SO, THERE ARE REALLY GREAT THINGS HAPPENING IN NEW  MEXICO WHEN IT COMES TO YOUTH ACTIVISM.

I REALLY -- JUST THROUGHOUT MY CAREER, I'VE SEEN THAT  BUILD.

THE YOUTH VOICES AROUND  CLIMATE ACTION REALLY MAKE ME FEEL PROUD AND HAPPY AND  EXCITED.

AND I FEEL LIKE YOUNG PEOPLE  ARE FACING THESE INCREDIBLE CHALLENGES, AND YET ARE  STILL ADVOCATING FOR A BETTER WORLD, TRYING TO  PROTECT SPACES AND COMMUNITIES AND PLACES.

I THINK THE MESSAGE THAT I ACTUALLY HAVE IS FOR PEOPLE  WHO LOOK LIKE ME.

OLDER, WHITE PEOPLE NEED TO  START ASKING WHAT YOUNG PEOPLE NEED FROM THEM.

>> Danielle: IN THE GENERATIONAL DIVIDE, THERE'S  OFTEN DENIGRATION FROM OLDER GENERATIONS THAT THIS  GENERATION IS ASKING FOR TOO MUCH OR IS TOO ENTITLED TO  SOMETHING.

WHAT DO OLDER GENERATIONS  OWE YOUNG PEOPLE WHEN IT COMES TO THE CLIMATE?

>> Paskus: YEAH.

I MEAN, OLDER GENERATIONS,  WE HAVE TAKEN THE VERY BEST THAT THIS BEAUTIFUL PLANET  HAD TO OFFER AND DID NOT CARETAKE IT AND DID NOT SHOW  LANDSCAPES AND THE MORE-THAN-HUMAN WORLD AND  FUTURE GENERATIONS COMPASSION AND GRACE AND  JOYFULNESS.

SO, YEAH, AS GOOD AS YOUR  INTENTIONS MIGHT BE, YOU KNOW, I THINK MY INTENTIONS  HAVE BEEN REALLY GOOD OVER MY 50 YEARS, BUT I KNOW THAT  I HAVE BEEN A PART OF THE TAKING AND WE OWE YOUNG  PEOPLE AND THE PLANET AND THE MORE-THAN-HUMAN WORLD,  WE OWE THEM EVERYTHING.

>> Danielle: I WANTED TO ASK  IN THIS MOMENT OF REFLECTION THAT WE HAVE, WHAT WAS THE  THEME?

WHAT DID IT ALWAYS END UP  BEING ABOUT IN THE END?

>> Paskus: THAT'S A GOOD  QUESTION.

I THINK EVEN WHEN I WAS LIKE  REALLY MAD ABOUT SOMETHING, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, THE  MILITARY'S CONTAMINATION OF GROUNDWATER IN OUR STATE  WITH PFAS, OR RAMPANT OIL AND GAS DEVELOPMENT.

EVEN WHEN I WAS REALLY MAD ABOUT SOMETHING, OR SHOCKED  AND ENRAGED, I LIKE TO THINK THAT WAS COMING FROM A PLACE  OF DEEP GRATITUDE AND DEEP LOVE FOR NEW MEXICO AND THE  COMMUNITIES HERE AND THE LANDSCAPES HERE.

THIS IS NOT WHERE I WAS BORN.

THIS IS MY CHOSEN HOME.

AND I LOVE NEW MEXICO, AND I  FEEL A GREAT DEAL OF RESPONSIBILITY TO NEW  MEXICO.

SO, I THINK I LIKE TO  IMAGINE THAT ALL OF MY REPORTING HAS COME FROM A  PLACE OF LOVE AND GRATITUDE.

>> Danielle: YOU JUST DID A  SERIES THAT WAS BASICALLY A SERIES OF LOVE LETTERS TO AN  ADAPTING CLIMATE FEATURING A LOT OF PEOPLE DOING AMAZING  WORK IN THIS SPACE.

WHAT WERE SOME OF THE  LESSONS THAT YOU WOULD WANT PEOPLE TO TAKE AWAY IN  ENGENDERING THEIR OWN LOVE?

>> Paskus: I KNOW I KEEP  REPEATING THIS, BUT IT HAD A HUGE IMPACT ON ME.

PAULA GARCIA, WITH THE NEW MEXICO ACEQUIA ASSOCIATION,  OPENED THE 2022 CONGRESSO.

THIS IS AFTER THE HERMITS  PEAK CALF CANYON FIRE.

THIS IS WHEN, YOU KNOW, THE  FORESTS HAVE UTTERLY CHANGED.

PEOPLE'S LIVES HAVE BEEN CHANGED AND DESTROYED.

AND THERE WAS SO MUCH CONFUSION AND ANGER AND  WORRY AND ANXIETY.

PAULA OPENED THAT CONGRESSO  SAYING THE MOUNTAINS HAVE CHANGED BUT THESE ARE STILL  OUR BELOVED LANDSCAPES.

I THINK THAT LESSON   APPLIES TO EVERYONE EVERYWHERE.

THE CLIMATE IS CHANGING, THE IMPACTS ARE RAMPANT.

THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT, BUT THIS  IS OUR PLACE.

WE LOVE IT.

WE CARE FOR IT.

AND I THINK THAT IS  SOMETHING THAT'S HAD A HUGE IMPACT ON ME PERSONALLY.

HEARING HER AND SEEING THE WORK THAT SHE DOES EVERY  DAY.

>> Danielle: I WANT TO END  HERE WITH SOME WORDS OF MARY OLIVER FROM HER POEM DON'T  HESITATE.

WE'RE NOT WISE, WE'RE NOT  OFTEN KIND, AND MUCH CAN NEVER BE REDEEMED.

STILL, LIFE HAS SOME POSSIBILITY LEFT.

PERHAPS THIS IS A WAY OF FIGHTING BACK THAT SOMETIMES  SOMETHING HAPPENS BETTER THAN ALL THE RICHES OR THE  POWER IN THE WORLD.

I WANT TO ASK WHAT'S NEXT  FOR YOU.

WHAT WHOLE JOYS ARE YOU  LOOKING FORWARD TO?

>> Paskus: WELL, I LOVE MARY  OLIVER, SO THANKS FOR READING THAT.

I HAVE SOME WRITING PROJECTS THAT I'M REALLY EXCITED TO  GET BACK TO.

I'VE LOVED WORKING IN  TELEVISION.

THIS PROGRAM HAS BEEN A  GIFT.

AND THERE'S CERTAINLY LOTS  OF THINGS WE CAN DO WITH VIDEO AND ESPECIALLY DRONE  FOOTAGE AND REALLY BRINGING AUDIENCES TO PLACES.

BUT FOR ME, PERSONALLY, I AM VERY EXCITED TO BE OUT IN  THE WORLD AGAIN WITH A NOTEBOOK AND A PEN INSTEAD  OF CAMERAS AND LIGHTS.

AND SORT OF GETTING BACK TO  THE INTIMACY OF WRITING AND REPORTING IN THE WAY THAT I  HAVE TRADITIONALLY DONE MY REPORTING OUTSIDE OF TV.

SO, I HAVE A LOT OF PROJECTS THAT I'M SUPER EXCITED  ABOUT.

>> Danielle: THANK YOU,  LAURA.

>> Paskus: THANK YOU, DANI.

I'M SO PROUD OF THE WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING, AND SO  THANKFUL FOR YOUR VOICE AND YOUR PRESENCE IN OUR STATE.

SO, THANKS.