>> Laura: YOU'VE BOTH BEEN COVERING THE HERMIT’S  PEAK/CALF CANYON FIRE.

WE KNOW THIS FIRE IS A  MONSTER FOR LOTS OF DIFFERENT REASONS.

PATRICK, LET'S START WITH YOU.

WHAT STORIES CAN YOU JUST NOT SHAKE OFF RIGHT NOW?

>> Patrick: I THINK THAT OUR ORGANIZATION HAS, YOU  KNOW, REALLY MADE AN EFFORT AT MEETING PEOPLE IN THEIR  COMMUNITIES.

WE SPENT A LOT OF LAST WEEK  UP NEAR MORA AND THE AREA NEAR THERE, AND I'M JUST  THINKING ABOUT THIS WOMAN, FIONA SINCLAIR.

SHE LOST A LOT OF HER LIVELIHOOD AND IS ALREADY,  YOU KNOW, LOOKING TOWARD THE NEXT THREAT.

SHE'S KIND OF TELLING EVERYBODY WHO WILL LISTEN  ABOUT THE THREAT OF A MASSIVE DEBRIS FLOW WITH A  FLOOD.

SHE FEELS -- I DON'T KNOW  MUCH EXACTLY ABOUT WHAT SHE'S SAYING, THE  PARTICULARS, BUT HER ENERGY IS REALLY AMAZING.

SHE'S IN THESE E-MAIL THREADS WITH ANYBODY:  JOURNALISTS, PUBLIC OFFICIALS, COUNTY  COMMISSIONERS FROM MORA, AND THE STATE AND FEDERAL  GOVERNMENT.

SHE ASKED A QUESTION OF  MARTIN HEINRICH, ACCORDING TO HER, AND SHE'S JUST SORT  OF THE CANARY IN THE COAL MINE OUT THERE.

SO I JUST THINK THERE'S A LOT OF WORRY.

EVERYONE IS JUST KIND OF LOOKING OUT OVER THE HORIZON  AT EVERY CLOUD AND WORRYING IF THAT'S THE ONE THAT'S  GOING TO BRING THE FLOOD.

SO I GUESS THAT'S JUST  SOMETHING I HADN'T REALLY ANTICIPATED GOING INTO THIS,  THAT THERE WOULD BE THIS CASCADE OF HORRORS, YOU  KNOW.

>> Laura: YEAH, YOU GUYS  HAVE BEEN DOING GREAT WORK.

I'VE BEEN ENJOYING SHAUN  GRISWOLD'S REPORTING, ALSO.

ADRIA, YOU ARE AN INCREDIBLE  VISUAL STORYTELLER, AND I FEEL LIKE WHEN I LOOK AT THE  PHOTOS YOU TAKE OF PEOPLE, I FEEL LIKE I'VE KNOWN THEM MY  WHOLE LIFE.

I'VE SEEN SOME OF YOUR  IMAGES WHERE PEOPLE ARE STANDING ON THEIR LANDS THAT  HAVE JUST BEEN BURNED, DESTROYED.

WHAT'S THAT LIKE FOR YOU TO DO THAT, TO SHARE THAT  MOMENT WITH PEOPLE?

>> Adria: WELL, I THINK  IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE SEE THE DEVASTATION.

AND IT'S -- YOU KNOW, JOURNALISM CAN BE EXTRACTIVE  IN A LOT OF WAYS, PARTICULARLY IN TIMES OF  CRISIS.

AND IN THE WAKE OF THE IMMEDIATE TRAUMA HAPPENING,  WHEN YOU'RE IN THOSE SPACES WITH THOSE PEOPLE, THEY'RE  RELIVING THAT TRAUMA.

THEY'RE LITERALLY SIFTING  THROUGH REMANENTS OF THEIR HOMES, AND SO IT CAN BE  REALLY CHALLENGING FOR ME TO BALANCE WHEN I'M MAKING AN  IMAGE AND WHEN I'M JUST BEING PRESENT AND LISTENING.

THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN CHALLENGING FOR ME BECAUSE  IT CAN FEEL INVASIVE SOMETIMES, TOO, AND YOU HAVE  TO RESPECT THAT VULNERABILITY THAT THEY'RE  WILLING TO GIVE YOU, THAT TRUST, BUT ALSO DOING YOUR  JOB AS A REPORTER AND MAKING THOSE IMAGES.

SO IT'S A BALANCING ACT OF SORTS.

AND THEN KNOWING THAT THEY'RE RELIVING TRAUMA, SO  MAKING ROOM FOR THOSE EMOTIONS THAT COME UP IS  REALLY IMPORTANT.

>> Laura: SO SPEAKING OF  DOING YOUR JOB AS A REPORTER, WE'VE BEEN TRYING  TO LINE UP INTERVIEWS WITH THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE  SINCE EARLY APRIL, AND I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY, THIS  IS DIFFERENT FROM THE DAILY BRIEFINGS WHERE PEOPLE, YOU  KNOW, THE FIREFIGHTERS ARE GIVING THESE BRIEFINGS THAT  ARE SUPER HELPFUL.

BUT ACTUALLY LIKE TRYING TO  TALK WITH THE FOREST SERVICE OFFICIALS AND ASK THEM  QUESTIONS AND HAVE ANSWERS.

AND I'M CURIOUS WHAT YOUR  EXPERIENCES HAVE BEEN IN TERMS OF TRANSPARENCY FROM  THE FOREST SERVICE AND ACCESSIBILITY TO THEIR  EXPERTS.

>> Patrick:   THEY HAVEN'T BEEN GREAT.

I UNDERSTAND FULLY, ESPECIALLY WITH A FORENSIC  TYPE INVESTIGATION THAT MIGHT BE REQUIRED INTO THE  ORIGINS OF THE HERMIT'S PEAK FIRE OR THE CALF CANYON  FIRE, THAT THAT'S JUST GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME, AND I'M  WILLING TO WAIT FOR THAT.

BUT IN THE MEANTIME, IT DOES  SEEM VERY MUCH THAT THERE ARE CONTEMPORANEOUS OR EVEN  DOCUMENTS THAT THEY CREATED PRIOR TO THIS THAT THEY  COULD BE RELEASING, JUST TO GIVE US A SENSE OF, YOU  KNOW, FOR THE HERMIT'S PEAK FIRE IN PARTICULAR, WHAT PUT  THE CREW THAT DAY ON THAT MOUNTAIN.

SO THAT'S A LOT OF THE REPORTING I'VE BEEN DOING,  HAS JUST BEEN TRYING TO KIND OF RETRACE SOME OF THOSE  STEPS WITH THE DOCUMENTS THAT ARE AVAILABLE.

LUCKILY THROUGH THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE OR THROUGH  KIND OF HISTORICAL OTHER AGENCIES, THEY'VE KIND OF  DONE SOME OF THE LEGWORK TO GIVE US SOME CONTEXT.

BUT AS YOU MIGHT HAVE READ OR SEEN, A GROUP OF MORE  RESIDENTS HAVE SUED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO  QUICKEN THE RELEASE OF THE PRESCRIBED BURN PLAN.

I DID GET ONE DOCUMENT ALONG WITH A COUPLE OF OTHER FOLKS  LAST WEEK THAT WAS CREATED IN 2018, THAT AT LEAST  OUTLINED SOME OF THE BROADER STRATEGY AROUND PRESCRIBED  BURNS IN THAT AREA, BUT THERE WAS NOTHING THAT WAS  PRODUCED IN THE LEAD-UP TO THAT BURN THAT WOULD GIVE US  ANY INSIGHT ABOUT WHY THEY DETERMINED THAT IT WAS SAFE,  OR WHO OVERSAW THAT, OR WHETHER THEY HAD A TECHNICAL  OR OUTSIDE REVIEW, WHICH WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT KIND  OF BECAME A BEST PRACTICE AFTER THE CERRO GRANDE FIRE  IN 2000.

SO I THINK THAT THERE'S MUCH  MORE THAT THEY COULD BE DOING, BECAUSE IN THE  MEANTIME, THERE ARE A TON OF, YOU KNOW, JUST THEORIES  ABOUNDING ABOUT THIS CAUSE.

I MEAN, I'M SURE THAT ADRIA  HAS HEARD A TON OF THAT STUFF BEING OUT THERE, TOO.

THERE'S JUST CONSPIRACIES UPON CONSPIRACIES OUT THERE,  AND I THINK THAT'S JUST BECAUSE OF THE VACUUM THAT  THE FOREST SERVICE IS CREATING.

I'LL TELL YOU ONE THING WE HAD TO DO.

THE FOREST SERVICE ANNOUNCED -- WELL, THE  INCIDENT MANAGEMENT TEAM ANNOUNCED THAT THEY WOULD BE  DOING DAILY BRIEFINGS IN LAS VEGAS AT 9:00 A.M.

SO I DROVE FROM ALBUQUERQUE ONE MORNING JUST TO ASK ONE  QUESTION, WHICH WAS, DO YOU THINK IT'S POSSIBLE -- AND  THIS IS BEFORE WE KNEW ABOUT THE CALF CANYON.

BUT, DO YOU THINK IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THE HERMIT'S  PEAK FIRE COULD HAVE CAUSED THE CALF CANYON FIRE, JUST  BECAUSE THAT WAS BEING SPECULATED ABOUT.

NO ONE REALLY KNEW ABOUT THE SCIENCE OR WHATEVER.

IT SEEMED LIKE A LONG SHOT, BUT I HAD A CHANCE TO ASK  THE ONE QUESTION, AND HE ANSWERED, NO.

AND IT'S COME OUT SINCE THEN THAT THAT, IN FACT, THAT  WASN'T THE CASE.

AND SHORTLY AFTER THAT, THEY  STOPPED DOING THOSE DAILY BRIEFINGS.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S RELATED, AND I UNDERSTAND  THAT THOSE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE TECHNICAL, ABOUT FIRE  BEHAVIOR AND THE EXPECTATIONS THAT DAY, BUT I  THINK IT JUST KIND OF SHOWS THAT IT'S VERY -- THAT THEY  ARE TRYING TO LIMIT INFORMATION IN SUCH A WAY  THAT IS ACTUALLY HARMFUL, I THINK, WHILE PEOPLE ARE  ACTUALLY REACTING TO THE CRISIS ITSELF.

>> Laura: YEAH, IT'S BEEN FRUSTRATING BECAUSE WE CAN  BE RESPECTFUL OF THE INVESTIGATION, TO BE SURE,  AND UNDERSTAND THAT THEY'RE VERY BUSY, BUT I FEEL LIKE  THERE ARE SO MANY BIG PICTURE QUESTIONS THAT  PEOPLE WANT ANSWERS TO, AND THERE ARE SO MANY EXPERTS ON  THE STAFF WHO COULD ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS.

BUT IT APPEARS AS THOUGH THERE'S A PRETTY STRICT   FIRE WALL.

IN TERMS OF ACCESSING THE FIRE, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY  YOU WANT TO BE SAFE AND ALL OF THAT, BUT HOW HAS THAT  BEEN IN YOUR EXPERIENCE?

>> Adria: IT'S BEEN PRETTY  CHALLENGING AND A LITTLE FRUSTRATING.

I'D NEVER COVERED A FIRE BEFORE THIS, AND SO KIND OF  LEARNING HOW TO NAVIGATE EVACUATION ZONES AND KIND OF  WORK AROUND THAT, YOU'RE KIND OF ALWAYS ON THE  PERIPHERY TO TELL THE STORY.

AND SO I THINK WE SEE THIS  INCREDIBLE IMAGERY THAT COMES FROM CALIFORNIA WHERE  IN 1986, IT WAS PASSED THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE THAT  INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE JOURNALISTS CAN RE-ENTER  EVACUATION ZONES FOR COVERAGE, SO THAT THEY  AREN'T PROHIBITED FROM RE-ENTERING.

SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE ABLE TO HAVE THESE INCREDIBLE  VISUALS.

SO HERE -- MOST STATES, IT'S ALL OVER THE BOARD IN TERMS  OF ACCESS, AND FROM SPEAKING TO OTHER PHOTOJOURNALISTS  WHO HAVE COVERED OTHER FIRES IN THE PAST, THEY HAVE FOUND  WAYS AROUND IT, EITHER THROUGH TAKING CLASSES OR  JUST HANGING AROUND LONG ENOUGH WHERE THERE ARE CREWS  THAT THEY EVENTUALLY LET YOU ON A TRUCK AND TAKE YOU IN.

I HAVEN'T BEEN AFFORDED THAT LUCK JUST YET.

AND SO YOU WILL KIND OF MEET A FISH & WILDLIFE LAW  ENFORCEMENT OFFICER THAT'S KIND OF GUARDING THE  EVACUATION ZONE, AND EVEN THOUGH THE SMOKE IS FROM  MILES AND MILES AWAY, YOU STILL CAN'T GET ANY CLOSER.

OR WHEN YOU ASK FOR AN ESCORT -- I DID GET ONE  ESCORT IN THE EVACUATION ZONE FROM THE FOREST  SERVICE.

IT WAS ME AND OTHER MEDIA  THERE.

YOU STILL AREN'T GETTING  REALLY TO FIRE LINES.

AND I THINK IT DEPENDS ON  THE DAY FOR THEM, AS WELL, WHAT THE FIRE BEHAVIOR IS  LOOKING LIKE SO THAT YOU'RE NOT IN DANGER.

BUT IT'S STILL REALLY PROHIBITIVE, AND SO I'M  TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF THERE'S A WAY WITHIN THE  STATE THAT WE COULD START TO LOBBY FOR ACCESS FOR  JOURNALISTS IN THESE EVACUATION ZONES.

OREGON THIS YEAR PASSED A LAW THAT REQUIRES  JOURNALISTS TO BE ESCORTED, BUT THEY CAN'T BE GIVEN A  HARD NO, BASICALLY.

SO I THINK THAT'S REALLY  IMPORTANT, FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT IS  HAPPENING FROM A JOURNALIST'S PERSPECTIVE.

THERE ARE LOTS OF PHOTOGRAPHS FLOATING AROUND  ON FACEBOOK AND ONLINE THAT ARE INCREDIBLE PHOTOGRAPHS,  BUT THEY'RE BEING MADE BY, SAY, DOT WORKERS OR OTHER  PEOPLE THAT ARE PROVIDING SUPPORT FOR THE FIRE.

BUT IT'S SAD TO ME THAT A JOURNALIST ISN'T ALLOWED  BEHIND THOSE FIRE LINES, AS WELL, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE  THE DEVASTATION AS ITS HAPPENING.

I THINK THOSE VISUALS CAN REALLY IMPACT PEOPLE'S  PERCEPTIONS, AND WHEN YOU SEE FIRSTHAND WHAT'S  HAPPENING, I THINK THAT IT REALLY INFLUENCES PEOPLE'S  PERCEPTIONS AND INFORMS THEM.

SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING  WE HAVE TO WORK ON.

>> Laura: PATRICK, YOU'VE  BEEN WRITING A LOT ABOUT FEMA AND DISASTER AID.

WHAT DO YOU THINK PEOPLE NEED TO MOST UNDERSTAND  ABOUT THAT PROCESS, WHAT'S HAPPENING, WHAT HAPPENS  NEXT?

>> Patrick: I THINK PEOPLE  SHOULD UNDERSTAND THE LIMITATIONS, ESPECIALLY  THOSE DIRECTLY AFFECTED, BUT ALSO NOT TAKE NO FOR AN  ANSWER.

IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S BEEN  SORT OF THIS CONTINUING ARTIFICIAL BARRIER IMPOSED  FOR 30% OF APPLICANTS, WHICH IS AN INITIAL DENIAL BASED  ON INSUFFICIENT RECORDS OR ANY NUMBER OF THINGS, BUT  EVERYBODY I'VE TALKED TO AT FEMA HAS JUST SAID, WELL,  YOU KNOW, THEY CAN APPEAL,  AND THEY HAVE 60 DAYS TO DO THAT.

AND IT SOUNDS LIKE AT LEAST ON THE PHONE WHEN I TALK TO  FEMA FOLKS, THEY SAY, WE'RE HAPPY TO WORK WITH PEOPLE AS  MUCH AS IS NEEDED.

THIS IS AN AUTOMATED LETTER.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THE EXISTENCE OF THIS AUTOMATED  DENIAL PROCESS HAS COME UNDER QUESTION, AND MAYBE  BECAUSE IT DOES DEMORALIZE FOLKS FROM APPLYING.

BUT I THINK THAT IF THERE'S ANYBODY WATCHING THIS WHO  HAS GOTTEN A DENIAL FROM FEMA, I THINK THAT FEMA  WOULD LIKE YOU TO KNOW THAT THAT'S NOT REALLY A DENIAL  AND YOU SHOULD JUST KEEP ASKING AND VISIT THE  DISASTER RECOVERY CENTER, OR CALL THEM UP.

BUT I THINK, AS WE'RE ALL KIND OF WAITING TO SEE WHAT  WILL HAPPEN FEDERALLY OR WITH ANY OF THESE PENDING  LAWSUITS, THIS IS JUST NOT  NEARLY ENOUGH MONEY TO FULLY COMPENSATE PEOPLE FOR THEIR  LOSSES AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE AN ACT OF CONGRESS AND  MAYBE MORE TO MEET, AT LEAST IN TERMS OF LIKE FINANCIAL  COMPENSATION, THAT WHICH WAS PROVIDED IN 2000 AFTER THE  CERRO GRANDE FIRE.

>> Laura: WHAT DO YOU THINK  NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN TERMS OF HEALING FOR COMMUNITIES OR  NORTHERN NEW MEXICO?

>> Adria: GOSH, I DON'T  KNOW WHERE TO EVEN START, REALLY.

YOU KNOW, THESE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN, A LOT OF THEM, HAVE  BEEN ON THEIR LAND FOR GENERATIONS, AND   THEIR LAND BURNING ISN'T -- IT'S NOT  REPLACEABLE TO THEM.

AND SO FOR THEM TO HEAL,  IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF TIME, I THINK.

I THINK IT'S A WOUND THAT WON'T HEAL FOR QUITE A WHILE  JUST BECAUSE IT IMPACTS THEIR FAMILY'S LEGACY.

THEY HAVE THIS CONNECTION TO THE LAND THAT I DON'T THINK  MANY UNDERSTAND.

AND THE GRIEF THAT'S  IMPACTING THEM I THINK IS REALLY IMMENSE, PLUS THESE  OTHER BARRIERS, PERHAPS, TO ASSISTANCE.

SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF  TIME, AND HOPEFULLY THE AGENCIES THAT ARE IN PLACE  DO COME THROUGH AND ARE ABLE TO SUPPORT.

BUT ON A GRIEF LEVEL, I COULDN'T IMAGINE HOW YOU  EVEN START TO HEAL, OTHER THAN TIME AND COMING  TOGETHER AS A COMMUNITY FOR THEM.

AND I THINK PART OF THAT HEALING IS SHARING THEIR  STORIES, TOO, AND CONTINUING AND FOLLOWING UP TO SEE  WHERE THEY'RE AT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM.