>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS  LIKE YOU.

>> JEFF: THIS WEEK ON NEW  MEXICO IN FOCUS, NEW EDUCATION SECRETARY SAME PROBLEMS.

AS THE GOVERNOR APPOINTS HER FIFTH HEAD OF PUBLIC  EDUCATION, WE REVISIT SEVERAL PROBLEMS A FORMER  SUPERINTENDENT SAYS NEED TO BE ADDRESSED IN OUR CLASSROOMS.

>> GRIEGO: WE'VE KIND OF  LOST OUR WAY, RIGHT?

SO WE'RE TRYING TO GRAPPLE.

LET'S MOVE BACK TO THIS OLD SYSTEM BECAUSE WE CAN  CONTROL IT MORE.

WHY AREN'T WE LOOKING AT  WHAT'S THE BEST THING FOR KIDS?

HOW DO WE STOP THAT?

>> JEFF: AND, ARE THE KIDS ALL RIGHT?

WE ASK TWO SCHOOL COUNSELORS  HOW STUDENTS ARE COPING WITH THE UNIQUE STRESSORS THEY'RE FACING.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS  WEEK, I'M EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR.

FOR THE FIFTH TIME IN AS MANY YEARS, GOVERNOR  MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM HAS APPOINTED A NEW  PUBLIC EDUCATION SECRETARY.

MARIANA PADILLA, WHO HAS  SERVED AS THE DIRECTOR OF THE NEW MEXICO CHILDREN'S  CABINET SINCE THE START OF THE GOVERNOR'S  ADMINISTRATION, WAS APPOINTED  EARLIER THIS WEEK.

PADILLA REPLACES ARSENIO  ROMERO WHO RESIGNED LATE LAST MONTH AFTER BEING TOLD  TO CHOOSE BETWEEN HIS JOB AND THE ONE HE'S PURSUING,  THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF NEW MEXICO STATE UNIVERSITY.

ROMERO HELD HIS POSITION AT THE PUBLIC EDUCATION  DEPARTMENT FOR ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF.

PADILLA MIGHT BE NEW TO THE ROTATING CHAIR THAT HOLDS  OUR STATE'S PUBLIC EDUCATION SECRETARY, BUT THE PROBLEMS  REMAIN THE SAME.

AND WE PLAN ON REVISITING  THEM DURING THIS WEEK'S SHOW.

IN LESS THAN 20 MINUTES, WE'LL RETURN TO MY CONVERSATION WITH TWO SCHOOL COUNSELORS ABOUT THE UNIQUE HURDLES STUDENTS ARE CONFRONTING AND HOW THEY'VE IMPACTED THEIR MENTAL HEALTH AND COURSE WORK.

BUT WE BEGIN WITH A LONG VIEW ON SOME OF THE NAGGING ISSUES INSIDE OUR STATE'S PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM.

IN OUR FIRST SEGMENT, CORRESPOND WANT RUSSELL CONTRERAS SPEAKS WITH DR. KAREN SANCHEZ-GRIEGO.

THE TWO SAT DOWN JUST DAYS BEFORE DR. SANCHEZ-GRIEGO'S OFFICIAL RETIREMENT AS SUPERINTENDENT OF THE CUBA, NEW MEXICO INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT BACK IN JUNE.

SHE HAD A LONG CAREER AS AN ADMINISTRATOR, AN ADVOCATE, AND AN A CHAMPION FOR CHANGE.

RUSSELL ASKS ABOUT GRADUATION RATES, AND WHETHER THE PUBLIC EDUCATION DEPARTMENT IS STILL SERVING ITS PURPOSE.

>> RUSSELL: DR. KAREN SANCHEZ-GRIEGO.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US HERE ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> GRIEGO: THANK YOU MR. CONTRERAS FOR THE INVITE.

SO HONORED.

>> RUSSELL: I HAVE KNOWN YOU FOR YEARS WHEN I WAS AT THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL.

BEFORE WE GET INTO YOUR CAREER HERE AND YOUR LATEST CAREER AT CUBA SCHOOLS.

WALK ME THROUGH IT.

AS AN EDUCATOR YOU WERE INSTRUMENTAL IN THE EXPANSION OF ENLACE IN THE 2000'S.

YOU GUYS LAUNCHED A WELL LAUDED ANTI-TRUANCY  PROGRAM.

LOOKING BACK THERE 20 YEARS  LATER, IN YOUR OPINION WHAT WORKED AT THAT TIME AND WHAT  DIDN'T WORK?

>> GRIEGO: I THINK WHEN THE  KELLOGG FOUNDATION FUNDED THIS AND IT  WAS IN 34 PROGRAMS ACROSS NINE STATES.

NEW MEXICO WAS ONE OF THE LARGEST BECAUSE WE DID AN  OVERALL STATE-WIDE INITIATIVE.

I THINK IT WAS REALLY LOOKING AT WHAT IS THE  PROMISE OF LATINO CHILDREN IN  COMMUNITIES AND THE SUCCESS WAS THE COMMUNITIES, RIGHT.

IT WAS REALLY GROUNDED IN THEIR VOICE.

IT WAS GROUNDED IN THEIR STUDENT'S VOICE.

IT WAS GROUNDED IN REALLY TRYING TO LOOK AT THE WEALTH  OF THE CULTURE AND LANGUAGE OF THAT COMMUNITY AND WHAT  THEIR KIDS COULD BRING TO THE FOREFRONT.

AND I THINK REALIZING THAT THEY WERE NOT JUST TRYING TO  NOT HAVE THEIR KIDS GO TO SCHOOL, YOU KNOW, LOTS OF  COMMENTS THAT HAD COME OUR, THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THEIR  KIDS, HISPANIC PARENTS DON'T CARE ABOUT THEIR KIDS, JUST  RIDICULOUS THINGS.

SO, WHEN WE KIND OF CAME  TOGETHER AND KIND OF TALKED ABOUT IT AND WORKED ON IT,  RIGHT, WE SAW SO MANY PARENTS AND COMMUNITIES  COME TO THE FOREFRONT AND FROM THE LEGISLATURE ALL  THE WAY DOWN AND ALL THE WAY UP TO  DC AT THE TIME.

IN FACT, PRESIDENT BUSH,  SECOND PRESIDENT BUSH, RECOGNIZED ENLACE  COMMUNITIES FOR THEIR FAMILY CENTERS AND  RECOGNITION WORKING IN SCHOOLS WITH FAMILIES AND  COMMUNITIES.

>> RUSSELL: YOU WERE ALSO  RIGHT THERE WHEN THE STATE MOVED FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF  EDUCATION TO THE PUBLIC EDUCATION DEPARTMENT UNDER  GOVERNOR RICHARDSON.

THIS WAS A VERY EXCITING TIME.

WE THOUGHT WE WERE REFORMING EDUCATION OVERALL.

LOOKING BACK NOW, THERE IS AN EFFORT TO BRING BACK THIS OLD STRUCTURE BECAUSE PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THE PUBLIC EDUCATION DEPARTMENT IS NOT  WORKING.

WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO  THAT, THAT WE WANT TO MOVE BACK TO THIS OTHER MODEL.

BY THAT TIME YOU REMEMBER, IT WASN'T WORKING.

WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THAT?

>> GRIEGO: I THINK AS EDUCATORS WE GRAPPLE, RIGHT.

WE ARE LIKE WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE EASIEST THING TO GET  US OUT OF WHATEVER SITUATION WE ARE IN.

I DO REMEMBER WHEN GOVERNOR RICHARDSON WAS THERE AND  THERE WAS A PUSH TO MOVE TO THE SECRETARY AND THE REASON  THEY WERE MOVING TO THAT WAS BECAUSE OF POLITICS, RIGHT,  THE POLITICAL PRESSURES THAT WERE BEING PLACED ON WHO WAS  GETTING HIRED AS THE SECRETARY  OF EDUCATION, WERE THEY PREDOMINATLY LOOKING AT  STUDENTS ALL ACROSS NEW MEXICO.

I THINK THE BEGINNING IMPETUS FOR THIS WAS LOOKING  AT HOW DO WE MOVE TO PUT A PERSON INPLACE THAT, THEN,  DOES THE WORK, THAT IS REALLY INSTRUMENTAL FOR  CHILDREN, NOT THAT THE OTHER SECRETARY WASN'T, BUT I  THOUGHT IT WAS A POSITIVE THING, YOU KNOW.

WE WERE VERY EXCITED ABOUT THE FACT THAT THESE THINGS  WERE GOING TO HAPPEN.

THEN WHAT WE SAW WAS THERE  WASA LOT OF POLITICS THAT WENT ON, RIGHT.

IT WOULD BE JUST LIKE -- I THINK WITH RICHARDSON WE SAW  ALOT OF -- HE WAS A VERY BELOVED GOVERNOR, RIGHT?

SO, WAS AND WASN'T BUT IN EDUCATION HE WAS.

I REMEMBER THE TIME THAT HE SPENT WITH CHILDREN, NOT  ONLY ENLACE, BUT ACROSS THE STATE, TALKING TO THEM,  LETTING THEM DO A LOT OF THINGS BUT HE  REALLY PUSHED FOR DR. GARCIA TO COME IN AND TAKE A LOOK  AT HOW THEY WERE GOING TO REFORM THOSE EFFORTS, BUT  THERE WAS STILL POLITICAL THINGS THAT WENT ON.

I THINK NOW IN WORKING AS A SUPERINTENDENT, I THINK AND  RETIRING HERE SOON IS REALLY THAT WE HAVE KIND OF LOST  OUR WAY, RIGHT?

SO WE ARE TRYING TO GRAPPLE.

LET'S MOVE BACK TO THE OLD SYSTEM BECAUSE WE CAN  CONTROL IT MORE OR LET'S STAY IN THIS  SYSTEM BECAUSE WE CAN CONTROL IT MORE IN A  DIFFERENT WAY, RIGHT?

WHEN YOU HAVE A SECRETARY OF  EDUCATION, YOU'RE REALLY WORKING THROUGH THE  GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

WHEN YOU WORK WITH A  SECRETARY OF EDUCATION WHO IS PLACED IN BY ELECTED  BOARD MEMBERS, THEN YOU'RE WORKING WITH A  DIFFERENT SET OF POLITICS.

IT IS STILL POLITICAL.

FOR ME IT IS LOOKING AT WHAT IS THE BEST THING FOR KIDS  AND WHY AREN'T WE LOOKING AT WHAT IS THE BEST THING FOR  KIDS AND HOW DO WE STOP THAT?

>> RUSSELL: YOU AND I TALKED 20 YEARS AGO AND NEW MEXICO  ISRANKED AT THE BOTTOM OF A NUMBER OF BENCHMARKS IN  EDUCATION.

THIS USED TO ANGER YOU.

YOU USED TO BE REALLY UPSET ABOUT THIS.

FLASH FORWARD TWO DECADES NOW.

NEW MEXICO IS STILL RANKED AT THE BOTTOM OF A NUMBER OF  BENCHMARKS.

WE ARE LOOKING AT TEST  SCORES, GRADUATION RATES, WE ARE STILL AT THE BOTTOM.

WHAT ARE WE DOING WRONG?

>> GRIEGO: YOU KNOW, I  THINK, THAT WE DON'T LOOK AT SYSTEM CHANGE.

I MEAN ONE OF THE BIG THINGS THAT I LEARNED WHEN WE HAD  DONE A COLLABORATIVE OF ENLACE AND DOING WORK  WITH THE LAW SCHOOL, THE MEDICAL SCHOOL,LOTS OF  DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS, WE WERE LOOKING  AT EDUCATION AS A PIPELINE, RIGHT?

YOU START THEM EARLY WHEN THEY ARE BORN.

YOU MOVE THEM UP TO PK 12, INTO THE DIFFERENT AREAS  THEY WANT TO BE AND IT WAS STILL VENUED IN CAREER AND  COLLEGE PREPARATION AND KIDS WERE ABLE  TO CHOOSE, BUT THE SYSTEMS NEVER CHANGE.

AND SO EVEN WHEN I WENT TO CUBA SIX YEARS AGO,  SYSTEMICALLY THEY WERE RUNNING THE SCHOOL DISTRICT  THE SAME AS THEY HAD BEEN IN THE 1980'S  WHICH WE KNOW DOES NOT WORK.

SO THE SYSTEMIC CHANGE IS  WHAT IS NEEDED IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO REFORM EDUCATION  IN NEW MEXICO.

IT'S NOT JUST, HEY, WE HAVE  A READING PROGRAM, HEY, WE A LITERACY PROGRAM, WE THIS  AND THAT.

IT IS REALLY TAKING A LOOK  AT WHERE WE ARE SPENDING MONEY, WHAT ARE WE DOING IN  TERMS OF STUDENTS, ARE WE HONORING AND LOOKING AT  THEIR CULTURE.

YAZZI MARTINEZ, IN MY  OPINION,HAS BEEN AN INCREDIBLE PUSH TO  SUPPORT EDUCATIONAL EQUALITY BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT WE SEE  IN NEW MEXICO.

THAT IS WHY OUR CHILDREN ARE  NOT DOING WELL.

WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT  EQUALITY AND OUR SYSTEM CONTINUES TO  LOOK AT THIS.

RUSSELL, I'LL TELL YOU THAT  THE FIRST YEAR THAT I STARTED  AS THE SUPERINTENDENT IN CUBA, AND I HAVE BEEN A  SUPERINTENDENT ON THE NAVAJO NATION AS WELL, AND ALSO IN  ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA, HAD BEEN RECRUITED.

AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT LATINOS, IN GENERAL,  ESPECIALLY WITH DOCTORATES ARERECRUITED ALL OVER THE  NATION ALMOST EXCEPT AND EXCEPTIONALLY WITHOUT BEING  IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO.

BUT THE FIRST MEETING I WENT  TO WITH 89 SUPERINTENDENTS, NUMBER ONE, I LOOKED AROUND  THE ROOM AND THOUGHT OH MY GOD, WE DON'T EVEN REFLECT  OR LOOK LIKE THE STUDENT POPULATION THAT WE WORK IN.

AND NOTHING NECESSARILY NOT TO BE CRUEL OR RUDE ABOUT  THAT, BUT I WAS ASKING MYSELF WHY?

IF WE DID THIS WORK 30 YEARS PRIOR AND NOW WE ARE HERE  AND STILL WE ARE NOT REFLECTIVE, NOT ONE NATIVE  AMERICAN -- THAT IS NOT TRUE, THERE WAS  ONE NATIVE AMERICAN SUPERINTENDENT IN MAGDALENA  BUT ONE OF THE THINGS WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT YAZZI  MARTINEZ AND CULTURAL ISSUES OR SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT  WERE INEFFECTIVELY AFFECTING CHILDREN, RIGHT?

NOT LOOKING HOW WE DO THIS, HOW ARE WE GOING TO DO TEST  SCORES, DIFFERENT WAYS OF PROVIDING ASSESSMENT.

WHAT I HEARD FROM MY COLLEAGUES IS WE DON'T HAVE  THOSE CHILDREN.

AND IT WAS LIKE, WHAT?

ALMOST FELT LIKE AS A 1980 GRADUATE, THAT MAKES ME OLD,  RIGHT, OF RIO GRANDE HIGH SCHOOL, IT MADE ME THINK OF  HOW IS THIS HAPPENING, THE SAME THING THAT I HEARD IN  MY HIGH SCHOOL WITH THOSE THAT RUN OUR SCHOOL DISTRICTS  30 SOMETHING YEARS LATER.

THAT WAS VERY FRUSTRATING.

THERE WERE SEVERAL TIMES I DID HAVE CONVERSATION OUT  LOUD, BUT I FEEL LIKE MY COLLEAGUES, IN SOME PLACES,  DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR IT.

>> RUSSELL: YOU MENTIONED  SUPERINTENDENTS.

THE AVERAGE SUPERINTENDENT  HERE IN NEW MEXICO, THEIR TENURE IS ABOUT A  YEAR-AND-A-HALF, SO IT CREATES A LOT OF INSTABILITY  IN OUR SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

YOU BUCKED THAT TREND.

YOU WERE THERE IN CUBA OR SIX YEARS OR MORE.

WHY DOES THAT HAPPEN?

WHY CAN'T WE KEEP  SUPERINTENDENTS?

WHY IS THERE INSTABILITY IN  OUR DISTRICTS WHERE WE CAN'T EVEN KEEP A SUPERINTENDENT  LONGER THAN ALMOST TWO YEARS.

>> GRIEGO: I GO BACK TO THE FACT YOU HAVE GOT TO LOOK AT  THE SYSTEM, RIGHT.

AGAIN, THOSE ARE POLITICAL  POSITIONS.

I DON'T THINK PEOPLE REALIZE  WHEN I WAS YOUNGER AS A TEACHER AND THOUGHT, I AM  GOING TO GET IN BECAUSE I AM GOING TO BE ABLE TO HELP  CHANGE THE SYSTEM.

THEN WHAT I SAW, OH-OH,  WAIT, IS THE SYSTEM GOING TO CHANGE ME.

IN FACT, WHEN I WAS WORKING AT ALBUQUERQUE HIGH SCHOOL  AS AN ACTIVITIES DIRECTOR, MY PRINCIPAL CAME TO ME ONE  DAYBECAUSE KIDS WOULD COME AND TELL ME THINGS AND WE  WOULD BE DOING ADVOCACY.

I JUST SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT,  HE SAID, YOU'RE YOUNG, LATINA, YOU'RE A WOMAN, ALL  OF THESE THINGS, FACTORS, THAT I NEED TO LOOK AT IN  TERMS OF HOW YOU'RE GOING TO BE  PROGRESSIVE.

IF YOU JUST STOP TALKING  ABOUT EQUITY AND OTHER THINGS,YOU'RE GETTING TO BE  ABLE TO ASCEND THE LADDER.

I THOUGHT, OKAY, SO WHAT  YOU'RE TEACHING ME IS I NEED TO BE QUIET ABOUT THE ISSUES  THAT COMPLETELY AFFECT CHILDREN AND HOW THEIR  FAMILIES HOW THEY ARE GOING TOBE ABLE TO WORK OR BE ABLE  TO MOVE IN THE WORLD, BUT IN ORDER TO DO THAT I HAVE TO  BE QUIET.

AND YET THAT IS NOT WHAT YOU  NEED.

YOU NEED LEADERS WHO COME TO  THE FOREFRONT THAT CAN SPEAK ON BEHALF OF CHILDREN JUST  LIKE I DID IN CUBA THE SIX YEARS THAT I WAS THERE.

I REALLY FELT LIKE THE BOARD OF EDUCATION WAS VERY, VERY  IMPORTANT BECAUSE THEY HAD HAD A LONG-TERM OF  SUPERINTENDENTS TURNING OVER, HIGH SCHOOL PRINCIPALS  TURNING OVER, BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, THEIR  SUPERINTENDENTS, AND WHEN THEY CALLED AND ASKED ME  AND WE MET AND WE TALKED ABOUT ME BEING THERE, I SAID  TO THEM, THIS IS GOING TO TAKE SOME HARD WORK  BECAUSE REFORMING INSTITUTIONS, AND YOU'RE THE  BOSS, RIGHT.

THE BOARD IS THE BOSS.

YOU'RE ELECTED FROM THE COMMUNITY.

THE VOICE OF THE COMMUNITY COME FORWARD.

AND WHEN WE JUMP INTO THE DEEP END OF THE POOL, WHICH  WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DO WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT  RACIAL INSTABILITY, LOOKING AT DATA AND THE DATA DOESN'T  SHOW WEARE DOING THE RIGHT THING FOR KIDS AND WE HAVE  TO MAKE THESE VERY IMPORTANT DECISIONS, YOU NEED TO THROW  ME A LIFE JACKET, OR THE LITTLE CIRCLE, AND THEY  SAID, WE WILL.

EVERY YEAR I WOULD REMIND,  WE ARE HERE AND WE ARE DOING THIS AND THIS IS WHERE WE ARE.

WE LOOKED AT DATA AND WE  LOOKED AT WHERE THE KIDS WERE AT AND WE WENT BACK OUT  INTO THE COMMUNITIES, SOMETHING THAT BRENDA CHAVEZ  AND OTHERS AT ENLACE TAUGHT ME.

YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE COMMUNITY TO HEAR WHAT THEY  HAVE TO SAY AND BECAUSE THAT COMMUNITY WAS 77, 78% NATIVE  AMERICAN NAVAJO, DINE, FROM THREE LOCAL COMMUNITIES, AND  22% HISPANIC, AGAIN, WITH THE 77, 78 PERCENT, A LOT OF  THEM ARE A DUAL RACE.

>> RUSSELL: ON THAT NOTE,  YOU HAVE ALSO BEEN AN ADVOCATE  FOR LATINOS AND HISPANO STUDENTS BUT WHEN YOU GOT  TO CUBA, YOU NOTICED THAT THERE WAS A RACIAL  DIFFERENCE.

HISPANOS WERE IN CHARGE AND  NATIVE AMERICAN STUDENTS, PARTICULARLY NAVAJO, WERE  BEING MARGINALIZED.

WHAT DID YOU FIND?

>> GRIEGO: WHAT I FOUND WAS SHOCKING, ACTUALLY.

WHAT I FOUND IN THE DATA THAT WE LOOKED AT -- WHEN WE  FIRST GOT THERE, I WAS THERE HELPING WITH HIGH SCHOOL  REDESIGN.

AND WE SAID CAN WE LOOK AT  THE DATA.

THERE WASN'T A DATA SET TO  LOOK AT.

HOW CAN YOU NOT HAVE A DATA  SET WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING AT WHERE YOUR KIDS ARE AT AND  WHAT YOUR GOING TO DO, 62% GRADUATION RATE AT THAT TIME  IN 2018, 2019.

WE STARTED PULLING DATA  TOGETHER AND SEEING WHAT WAS HAPPENING.

THE KIDS WERE BEING PUSHED OUT, SPECIFICALLY NATIVE  AMERICAN KIDS, LARGELY NATIVE AMERICAN BOYS.

WHEN I SAY PUSHED OUT, I MEAN STATE LAWS WERE USED  AGAINST THEM.

INSTEAD OF HELPING THEM,  THEY WERE BEING USED AGAINST THEM.

SO I WOULD BE, LIKE, HOW COME THESE KIDS ARE BEING  DROPPED?

WHO IS ALLOWING YOU TO DROP  THESE KIDS?

THAT IS WHAT WE DO.

ON THE TEN DAY WE DROP THEM BECAUSE OF THE STATE LAW,  THE 10 DAYS.

HOLD ON.

HAVE GONE OUT TO DO A HOME VISIT?

HAVE WE VISITED THEIR PARENTS?

DO WE KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON?

>> RUSSELL: USING THE ENLACE MODEL.

>> GRIEGO: TRYING TO FIGURE  OUT, YEAH, BECAUSE A LOT OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN ENLACE  WAS GROUNDED IN LOOKING AT BEAUTY OF THE COMMUNITY AND SO - >> RUSSELL: CAN GRADUATION RATE IMPROVE OVER TIME.

>> GRIEGO: YES.

WE ARE NOW CURRENTLY ARE AT 97% IN THIS LAST YEAR.

>> RUSSELL: 62 TO -- >> GRIEGO: 62 TO 97.

>> RUSSELL: WOW.

>> GRIEGO: RIGHT, WE DID A  LOT OF THAT BY REALLY, REALLY TARGETED WORK AND  REALLY LOOKING AT WHAT WAS GOING ON.

BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT WE HAD THE MAJORITY OF OUR  BOYS, MOSTLY NATIVE AMERICAN BOYS, BUT OUR HISPANIC BOYS  AS WELL.

WE SAID WE NEED TO TURN AND  LOOK TO MEN IN OUR COMMUNITY AND BRING THEM IN AND HAVE  THEM START WORKING WITH OUR BOYS AND SHOW THEM, RIGHT,  THAT MAYBE ABSENCE OF A FATHER OR ABSENCE OF A  MENTOR OR SOMETHING, THAT WE CAN BRING THAT BACK AND WE  CAN SHOW THEM THE BEAUTY IN WHO THEY ARE.

>> RUSSELL: IN THE LAST 90 SECONDS, YOU HAVE MADE SO  MANY IMPROVEMENTS SO WHY WALK AWAY NOW?

>> GRIEGO: IT IS TIME.

I THINK IT IS TIME FOR ME TO  RETIRE AND DO SOME OTHER THINGS.

EDUCATION WILL ALWAYS BE A PART OF ME AND I WILL STILL  CONTINUE TO FIGHT AND GET OUT INTO, IF YOU WILL, NEW  MEXICO AND THE OTHER STATES TO REALLY, REALLY COMBAT THE  FACT THAT WE ARE NOT DOING RIGHT BY CHILDREN.

AND WE ARE THE LEADERS.

WE ARE THE ONES THAT CAN  MAKE THE CHANGES BECAUSE WE ARE THE ONES THAT HELP WITH  BOARDS, CONTROL FINANCES AND POLICIES AND BE ABLE TO GO  TO THE LEGISLATURE TO ASK FOR SEVERAL INITIATIVES THAT  ARE IMPORTANT TO CHILDREN.

>> RUSSELL: DR. KAREN  SANCHEZ-GRIEGO, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US HERE ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS AND CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR RETIREMENT.

>> GRIEGO: THANK YOU.

>> GBARA: I THINK THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE OUR  ENVIRONMENT ISN'T THE BEST.

SO PLANTING IN GENERAL IS  REALLY GOOD, ESPECIALLY HAVING LIKE A COMMUNITY LIKE  A SCHOOL COME TOGETHER AND PLANT, IT GETS THE JOB DONE FASTER.

>> JEFF: WHILE THINKING  ABOUT AN EPISODE CENTERED AROUND EDUCATION, WE KNEW WE  WANTED TO RETURN TO A SEGMENT THAT ADDRESSED THE  STUDENT EXPERIENCE IN NEW MEXICO.

LAST OCTOBER WE SPOKE TO TWO SCHOOL COUNSELORS WHO  LISTENED TO CONCERNS FROM THOSE STUDENTS EVERY DAY.

IN MY INTERVIEW, I ASKED BOTH OF THEM WHAT THEY'RE  SEEING FROM THE STUDENTS THEY WORK WITH, AND HOW  ADULTS CAN BETTER HELP OUR YOUNG PEOPLE LEARN AND GROW.

MENTALLY AND EMOTIONALLY.

>> JEFF: BRYAN, DEVON,  THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS THIS WEEK.

>> SHELTON: THANK YOU.

>> GABALDON: THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> JEFF: AS WE JUST HEARD,  YOU BOTH WORK AS COUNSELORS IN ALBUQUERQUE PUBLIC  SCHOOLS WHICH GIVES YOU BOTH UNIQUE INSIGHT INTO HOW  STUDENTS ARE DOING.

IN A DIFFERENT WAY EVEN THAN  TEACHERS INTERACT WITH STUDENTS IN THE CLASSROOM.

I AM NOT A PARENT BUT I AM CLOSE WITH A LOT OF MIDDLE  AND HIGH SCHOOL AGE KIDS AND THEY HAVE DESCRIBED, OVER  THE COURSE OF THE PAST FEW YEARS SOME REAL DIFFICULTIES  THAT THEY HAVE FACED.

SO, BRYAN, I WOULD LIKE TO  START WITH YOU, WITH THE BIG QUESTION, ARE THE KIDS ALL RIGHT?

>> GABALDON: ARE THE KIDS  ALL RIGHT?

THAT IS A BIG QUESTION, LIKE  YOU SAID.

FOR THE MOST PART, WE ARE  TRYING TO GET THEM TO THAT SPACE, BUT IN ALL HONESTY,  MANY OF THEM ARE NOT.

THEY ARE STRUGGLING, MANY OF  THEM.

A LARGE MAJORITY OF THEM  ARE.

>> JEFF: CAN YOU DESCRIBE  THE PATTERNS OR THEMES THAT YOU'RE SEEING IN THAT  STRUGGLE?

WHAT HAS SORT OF UNDERPINNED  THE STRUGGLE THAT YOU'RE SEEING?

>> GABALDON: I THINK SINCE THE PANDEMIC, WE HAVE SEEN  AN INCREASE WITH PROBLEMS IN ABSENTEEISM.

AND A LOT MORE SUBSTANCE ABUSE IN THE SCHOOL.

STUDENTS JUST HAVE A ROUGH TIME GETTING TO SCHOOL IN  GENERAL, A LOT OF THE TIME.

AND IF THEY HAD STRUGGLES  BEFORE THE PANDEMIC WE HAVE SEEN THE STRUGGLES INCREASE,  SO WE ARE ALSO SEEING ACADEMIC DEFICIENCIES AS A  RESULT.

SO, COMBINED WE ARE JUST  SEEING A HODGE-PODGE OF LARGE STUFF THEY HAVE TO  DEAL WITH ISSUES.

BIG ISSUES.

>> JEFF: DEVON, I KNOW YOU WORK AT A SMALLER SCHOOL AS  A COUNSELOR.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS,  THE UNIQUE, CHALLENGES THAT YOU HAVE SEEN WITH SOME OF  THE STUDENTS WHO COME TO YOU FOR HELP?

>> SHELTON: WELL, I WORK AT AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, SO  SOMETIMES WITH THE YOUNGER STUDENTS, THERE IS AN  UNDERCURRENT OF HOPE, EVEN, BECAUSE THEY ARE YOUNGER AND  THEY HAVE A LOT OF TIME TO MAKE THINGS UP AND  PERSEVERE.

BUT SINCE THE PANDEMIC, I  HAVE NOTICED A LOT OF SOCIAL CHALLENGES, INTERACTING WITH  PEERS IN A WAY THAT IS HEALTHY.

ACADEMIC CHALLENGES FOR SURE, WHICH IMPACT HOW THEY  INTERACT WITH THEIR PEERS AND HOW THEY ARE AT SCHOOL.

SO, YES, I THINK THE BUG QUESTION, THE KIDS CAN BE  ALL RIGHT BUT WE NEED TO ALL WORK TOGETHER AND WE ARE.

EDUCATORS, COMMUNITY, FAMILIES.

WE ALL NEED TO COME TOGETHER TO KIND OF PUSH THEM UP  TOWARDS ALL RIGHT.

BUT RIGHT NOW WE HAVE MANY  STRUGGLING KIDS.

>> JEFF: ISOLATION IS  OBVIOUSLY A PART OF THIS.

STUDENTS WHO WERE REQUIRED  TO LEARN THROUGH A SCREEN INSTEAD OF THE FACE-TO-FACE  INTERACTION THAT HAPPENS IN THE CLASSROOM.

WHAT HAS THE TRANSITION BACK TO IN-PERSON LEARNING BEEN  LIKE AND HAS THAT PRESENTED ITS OWN SORT OF UNIQUE  CHALLENGES?

>> SHELTON: I THINK FOR THE  ELEMENTARY LEVEL, IN PARTICULAR, WE ARE SEEING  KIND OF POCKETS OF STRUGGLE, ESPECIALLY IF THEY MISSED  EARLIER YEARS, PRE K, KINDER, FIRST, SECOND  BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE A LOT OF LEARNING HOW TO BE IN  SCHOOL TAKES PLACE ON TOP OF ACADEMIC LEARNING.

SO THAT HAS BEEN A STRUGGLE AND THERE IS SOME  NERVOUSNESS, ANXIETY FEELING FROM STUDENTS, NOT ALL, BUT  WE SEE IT IN HOW THEY INTERACT WITH THEIR PEERS  BUT ALSO MAYBE WANT TO ESCAPE THE ACADEMIC  LEARNING, BECAUSE THEY ARE FEELING OVERWHELMED.

BUT, THAT IS WHERE WE COME IN, THAT IS WHERE COUNSELORS  COME IN, GREAT EDUCATORS COME IN AND WE RETEACH THOSE  SKILLS AND BUILD THEM BACK UP.

BUT I DO SEE IT WITH THE YOUNGER KIDS AS THEY MOVE  UP, THAT THERE WAS A DEFICIT WHEN THEY WERE BEHIND THE  SCREEN OR NOT ABLE TO INTERACT ON PLAYGROUND OR  PRESCHOOL OR ANYPLACE LIKE THAT.

>> JEFF: THAT IS SORT OF THE IDEA OF SOCIAL EMOTIONAL  LEARNING, RIGHT, WHICH IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE ARE  LEARNING IN CLASSROOMS, RIGHT?

SCHOOL IS SUPPOSED TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS MORE THAN  ABC'S AND ONE PLUS ONE EQUALS TWO.

HOW DO YOU HELP A STUDENT WITH THAT SOCIAL EMOTIONAL  LEARNING THAT THEY HAVE MAYBE LOST A LITTLE BIT OF  THAT SKILL, WHEN THEY ARE TRYING TO COME BACK?

>> GABALDON: DEFINITELY.

WE ARE NOTICING THAT  STUDENTS HAVE LOST SOME OF THOSE SOCIAL EMOTIONAL  SKILLS JUST IN RELATING WITH ONE ANOTHER, HOW TO ENGAGE  WITH TEACHERS AND OTHER ADULTS ON CAMPUS.

WE ARE SEEING IT JUST IN ALL DIFFERENT AREAS IN THE  SCHOOL SO WHAT WE TRY TO DO IS WE TRY TO ENGAGE  CLASSROOMS AND SMALL GROUPS AND EVEN LARGE GROUPS IN  TERMS OF, LIKE, TARGETING HOW TO TREAT ONE  ANOTHER.

HOW TO BE SAFE ONLINE.

HOW TO FUNCTION IN SCHOOL BECAUSE THE PANDEMIC HAS  DEFINITELY AFFECTED KIDS IN TERMS OF JUST GENERAL SCHOOL  PROCESSES.

YOU KNOW, JUST HAVING --  JUST COMING TO SCHOOL EVERYDAY, TEACHING THE  IMPORTANCE OF BEING PRESENT EVERYDAY.

SO IT IS AN ONGOING PROCESS AND AT MY PARTICULAR SCHOOL,  I WORK AT HIGHLANDS HIGH SCHOOL, WE HAVE A THEME  EVERY MONTH AND WE TRY TO ALWAYS INCLUDE A  SOCIAL EMOTIONAL THEME.

THIS MONTH IS SUICIDE  PREVENTION MONTH, SO WE ARE DOING THAT WORK THIS MONTH,  BUT, WE ALSO TRY TO TALK ABOUT HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS  WITH STUDENTS AND HOW TO BE A PARTNER TO A FRIEND OR A  ROMANTIC PARTNER OR JUST BE A POSITIVE FAMILY MEMBER AND  STUDENT.

WE ARE RETEACHING THOSE  BASIC BEHAVIORS THAT STUDENTS USED TO HAVE BY  THE TIME THEY REACH NINTH GRADE.

WE ARE HAVING TO DO SOME MORE TEAMING AND DEFINITELY  REVIEW WITH THE WHOLE STUDENT  POPULATION, REALLY.

>> JEFF: HOW DO THE STUDENTS  RESPOND TO THOSE THEMES?

I WAS A BIT OF A PROBLEM  CHILD IN SCHOOL.

THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN  SOMETHING, LIKE, OH, GOODNESS, I DON'T WANT TO  DEAL WITH THAT.

HOW DO THEY RESPOND  GENERALLY?

>> GABALDON: YOU KNOW, IT IS  SURPRISING, BUT TEENAGERS ARE TALKING MORE NOW ABOUT  MENTAL HEALTH AND I THINK SOCIAL MEDIA -- THAT MIGHT  BE A POSITIVE THING ABOUT SOCIAL MEDIA.

IT IS MORE APPARENT AND OUT IN THE PUBLIC NOW, ALL OVER  SOCIAL MEDIA AND I THINK STUDENTS ARE AWARE OF WHAT  IT IS TO NOT FEEL WELL.

WE ARE TRYING TO GET THE  MESSAGE ACROSS TO STUDENTS THAT IT IS OKAY TO NOT BE  OKAY.

AND THEY ARE TAKING THAT IN  KIND OF NICELY AND IN A RELAXED FASHION AND I HAVE  NOTICED THAT SINCE THE PANDEMIC STUDENTS ARE  LEARNING -- ARE LISTENING MORE INTENTLY REGARDING  MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES.

>> SHELTON: AND THERE IS  SOME ACCEPTABILITY AROUND IT  TO SAY I AM NOT OKAY, TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

I THINK THAT IS REALLY STARTING TO BE MORE  APPARENT.

>> GABALDON: THERE IS A LOT  LESS STIGMA AND WE USED TO HAVE TO ALMOST BEG STUDENTS  AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL TO GET INTO THERAPY BECAUSE WE  DO WORK WITH THERAPISTS ON OUR CAMPUS.

MANY OF OUR SCHOOLS HAVE COMMUNITY MENTAL HEALTH  PROFESSIONALS WHO ARE COUNSELORS AND THERAPISTS  WHO STUDENTS CAN SEE.

AND NOW STUDENTS ARE  ACTUALLY ASKING FOR HELP.

WHICH IS NICE.

AND, THEY ARE RECEIVING IT A LOT OF THE TIME, SO IT IS  POSITIVE.

>> JEFF: I FEEL LIKE WE  THINK VULNERABILITY SOMETIMES  IN THIS CONTEXT AS AN INVITATION FOR KIDS TO GET  HURT, BUT THE IDEA OF VULNERABILITY AS BEING  ABLE TO CONCEDE OR ADMIT OR SAY WITHOUT SHAME OR STIGMA  THAT I AM NOT OKAY.

HOW DO YOU SEE THAT WITH  YOUNGER KIDS AND HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT KIND OF  VULNERABILITY.

>> SHELTON: MUCH IN THE SAME  WAY YOU DO.

I DO CLASSROOM LESSONS.

I DO SMALL GROUPS.

I WORK WITH STUDENTS  INDIVIDUALLY BUT I DO HEAR THAT THE VULNERABILITY ISN'T  NECESSARILY A BAD THING, BUT I KNOW THAT WHEN STUDENTS  FEEL VULNERABLE IN THE MOMENT, IN THE CLASSROOM,  IN FRONT OF THEIR PEERS, THAT IS WHEN WE SEE  BEHAVIORS.

I THINK MAKING SURE WE USE  THE LANGUAGE, CONTINUE TO MAKE IT ACCEPTABLE AND SO  THAT THEY HAVE THE TOOLS TO SPEAK UP AND SAY, I AM NOT  DOING OKAY OR I NEED HELP TODAY, THAT THAT IS OKAY FOR  THEM TO SAY AND THEY DON'T FEEL SHAMED OR BOTHERED BY IT.

>> JEFF: YOU MENTIONED THE  THEME FOR HIGHLAND THIS MONTH IS SUICIDE PREVENTION  MONTH.

WE CAN'T HAVE THIS  CONVERSATION WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT VIOLENCE IN SCHOOLS.

WHEN I WAS A STUDENT IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND HIGH  SCHOOL, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLY RARE, ALMOST  UNIMAGINABLE, TO THINK ABOUT A STUDENT BRINGING GUN TO  SCHOOL LET ALONE USING IT ON HIS CLASSMATES OR TEACHERS.

THAT IS A REALITY, UNFORTUNATELY, THAT WE ARE  FACED WITH ALL THE TIME WHEN WE HAVE SEEN IN OUR SCHOOLS  HERE.

HOW, AS A SCHOOL COUNSELOR,  DO YOU WORK THROUGH THAT KIND OF REALITY WITH  SOMEBODY WHO COMES TO YOU AND WANTS TO TALK TO YOU  ABOUT IT?

>> GABALDON: FIRST WE ALWAYS  LISTEN TO EACH STUDENT ABOUT THEIR CONCERNS AND WE KNOW  THEY ARE DEALING WITH THAT FEAR.

IT IS JUST LIKE THIS GENERALIZED FEAR THAT  STUDENTS ARE CARRYING WITH THEM AND IT IS EVEN EVIDENT  BY, LIKE, LITTLE TWITCHES THEY HAVE.

SOME STUDENTS HAVE A HARD TIME JUST SITTING STILL.

AND THEIR LEG IS ALWAYS SHAKING OR THEY ARE NEEDING  TO HAVE SOME KIND OF STIMULATION.

AND THEN WE JUST SORT OF LIKE MAYBE DIG A LITTLE  DEEPER WITH STUDENTS AND TRY TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THAT  FEAR AND OFTENTIMES THEY ARE AFRAID OF THE VIOLENCE THAT  IS HAPPENING IN THE COMMUNITY.

AND AT SCHOOL.

BECAUSE, WE NEVER KNOW WHAT  IS GOING TO HAPPEN, RIGHT, AND WE HEAR ABOUT SCHOOL  SHOOTINGS ALL THE TIME.

THERE ARE MORE GUNS OUT  THERE THAT ARE READILY AVAILABLE.

STUDENTS KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON, THEY REALLY SO,  ESPECIALLY AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL.

SO THERE IS THAT LOW LEVEL OF FEAR THAT IS CONSTANTLY  PRESENT.

BUT WE TRY TO PROCESS IT  WITH EACH STUDENT THAT NEEDS TO TALK ABOUT IT AND REALLY  THEY ALL NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT.

BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL DEALING WITH IT ON SOME LEVEL.

>> JEFF: IT IS A HORRIBLE THING TO HAVE TO ADAPT TO.

I CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT THAT MUST BE LIKE.

I WOULD IMAGINE YOU DON'T DEAL WITH THAT QUITE AS MUCH  WITH YOUNGER KIDS, BUT I'M SURE THEY ARE AWARE OF SOME  OF WHAT IS GOING ON TOO.

>> SHELTON: AND DIFFERENT  STUDENTS HAVE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF ACCESS TO THE NEWS  AND WHAT THEIR FAMILIES TALK ABOUT.

I THINK I NOTICED THAT MORE WHEN WE DO DRILLS OR FIRE  DRILLS OR IF SOMETHING UNEXPECTED HAPPENS, YOU DO.

YOU FEEL AN UPTICK OF THE NERVOUS ENERGY IN THE ROOM.

IS THIS SOMETHING SERIOUS OR IS EVERYTHING OKAY?

BUT, I THINK THAT IS WHY WE PRACTICE IT.

THAT IS WHY WE UNFORTUNATELY HAVE TO SO THAT WE CAN DO  THOSE THINGS SMOOTHLY.

BUT THEY DEFINITELY HEAR IT,  THEY DEAL WITH IT AND THERE ARE TIMES WHEN IT IS  OVERWHELMING FOR THEM.

AND THAT IS WHEN WE LISTEN,  PROCESS IT WITH THEM AND TRY TO MAKE THEM REALIZE, HELP  THEM REALIZE, THEY ARE SAFE, THAT THEY HAVE LOTS OF  ADULTS AROUND THEM THAT CARE AND WILL DO THEIR BEST TO  KEEP THEM SAFE.

>> JEFF: SO, UNFORTUNATELY  NOT THE VERY MANY KIDS WATCH OUR SHOW, BUT A LOT OF THEIR  PARENTS AND IN SOME CASES GRANDPARENTS DO WATCH OUR  SHOW.

SO, WHAT ABOUT THE KID WHO  IS DOING THE BEST THEY CAN IN SCHOOL BUT HAS SOME OF  THOSE OUTSIDE STRESSORS AT HOME, WHETHER IT IS A FAMILY  MEMBER DEALING WITH BEHAVIORAL HEALTH  ISSUES, A SUBSTANCE ABUSE DISORDER, HOPELESSNESS.

I READ A STORY IN THE JOURNAL ABOUT THE LARGE  NUMBER OF HOMELESS STUDENTS IN APS.

HOW CAN ALL ADULTS, NOT JUST PARENTS, BUT ALL OF US  LISTEN BETTER TO KIDS AND FIND WAYS TO MEET THEM WHERE  THEY ARE?

>> SHELTON: I THINK THE KEY  IS BEING OPEN TO LISTENING.

HEARING THEM WHERE THEY ARE  AT.

DEPENDING ON HOW OLD THEY  ARE, THE LANGUAGE MIGHT BE DIFFERENT WITH YOU MAKING  THOSE TIMES TO SIT WITH THEM, TO LISTEN TO THEM,  TO ASK QUESTIONS, AND BE PREPARED TO  HEAR WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY.

IT REALLY DOES TAKE EVERYONE  BEING ONBOARD AND BEING WILLING, GRANDPARENTS,  PARENTS, REACHING OUT TO THE PEOPLE IN THEIR STUDENT'S  LIFE, THE COUNSELORS, THE TEACHER, TO SAY, HEY, THIS  IS HAPPENING, CAN WE GET SOME SUPPORT FROM THE  SCHOOL?

CAN WE GET SOME SUPPORT FROM  THE SCHOOL COUNSELOR?

WE HEAR WHAT WE CAN HEAR BUT  WE RELY ON THE ADULTS IN THEIR LIVES REACHING OUT  SO THAT WE CAN BRIDGE THROUGH HOME AND SCHOOL AND  BE THE BEST SUPPORT WE CAN.

>> JEFF: BRYAN ARE THERE  OTHER STRATEGIES FOR THOSE OF US WHO  ARE NOT SCHOOL AGE KIDS ANYMORE TO BE THERE FOR KIDS  AND TO HELP THEM KIND OF GET THROUGH THESE REALLY  CHALLENGING TIMES?

>> GABALDON: I THINK I AM  GOING TO PIGGYBACK OFF DEVON ON AND WHAT SHE SAID WAS  RIGHT ON.

BE AVAILABLE TO HEAR WHAT  STUDENTS ARE SAYING.

IT IS OKAY TO ASK THE ROUGH  QUESTIONS.

IT IS OKAY TO ASK THE DEEP,  DEEP QUESTIONS, TOO, LIKE, ARE YOU DOING OKAY,  MENTALLY?

ARE YOU DOING OKAY  EMOTIONALLY?

ARE YOU HAVING THOUGHTS OF  HURTING YOURSELF OR OTHERS?

THOSE ARE DIFFICULT QUESTIONS  TO ASK BUT STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT JUST BY ASKING  THOSE QUESTIONS CAN PREVENT MANY TRAGEDIES.

I WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE JUST TO ASK THE DEEP  QUESTIONS IF YOU'RE CONCERNED OR WORRIED  AND EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT A STUDENT,  KIDS AND TEENS CAN REALLY COVER UP THEIR MENTAL HEALTH  ISSUES.

SO, IT IS GOOD TO DIG A  LITTLE DEEPER AND ASK THE QUESTION A COUPLE OF TIMES,  NOT JUST ONCE, BECAUSE OFTENTIMES THEIR COMMON  RESPONSE IS, I AM DOING GOOD, I AM FINE.

ARE YOU REALLY FINE?

BECAUSE I AM NOT FEELING  THAT YOU'RE FINE.

SO IT IS OKAY TO DIG A  LITTLE DEEPER.

AND TRY NOT TO BE TOO  JUDGMENTAL LIKE DEVON SAID, BE READY TO BE OPEN AND  AFFIRMING TO WHAT STUDENTS ARE BRINGING TO YOU.

BECAUSE IT IS A DIFFERENT AGE AND WE ARE ALL  PROGRESSING AND GROWING BUT THEY ARE DEALING WITH MANY  ISSUES.

>> SHELTON: AND PERHAPS  PIGGYBACKING OFF OF WHAT THEY ARE WATCHING, WHAT THEY  ARE SEEING AND USE THAT AS AN OPPORTUNITY, LIKE, OH,  THAT CHARACTER IS GOING THROUGH THAT, HAVE YOU EVER  DEALT WITH THAT?

DO YOU HAVE FRIENDS GOING  THROUGH THIS?

JUST TO USE IT AS AN OPENER  FOR THE BIGGER CONVERSATION AND LET THEM BE COMFORTABLE  TO ANSWER.

>> JEFF: I FEEL LIKE THIS  HAS BEEN A CONVERSATION FILLED WITH DIFFICULT  QUESTIONS.

I WOULD LOVE TO END ON A  NOTE OF HOPE AND OPTIMISM.

WITHOUT OBVIOUSLY REVEALING  ANY PERSONAL IDENTIFIERS OR A SPECIFIC KID, DEVON, CAN  YOU THINK OF SOME STORIES OR THEMES AND RESILIENCE YOU  HAVE SEEN FROM THE STUDENTS THAT YOU HAVE WORKED WITH  OVER THE COURSE OF THESE REALLY CHALLENGING PAST  COUPLE OF YEARS?

>> SHELTON: AS YOU ASK THAT  QUESTION, I FIND MYSELF SMILING BECAUSE I DO HAVE  HOPE.

I CARE SO DEEPLY FOR MY  STUDENTS AND I SEE LITTLE SUCCESSES EVERYDAY.

I DON'T THINK I COULD SAY ONE SPECIFIC ONE JUST  BECAUSE I AM AT A SMALL SCHOOL.

BUT I SEE LITTLE SUCCESSES IN STUDENTS ASKING TO GO TO  A CALMING CENTER INSTEAD OF RUNNING OUT OF THE ROOM OR  INSTEAD OF RIPPING UP PAPER.

I SEE THAT AS SUCCESS THAT  WE CAN BUILD ON, THAT THEY ARE LEARNING TO REGULATE  THEIR BEHAVIOR, SO THAT THEY CAN BE PRESENT TO MAKE  UP ANY ACADEMIC DEFICITS OR SOCIAL DEFICITS, BUT, I AM  VERY HOPEFUL.

I THINK OUR EDUCATORS, OUR TEACHERS ARE WORKING  TIRELESSLY AND IN OUR SCHOOL WE SEE ACADEMIC GAINS JUST  THIS LAST YEAR, WHICH IS POSITIVE AND WONDERFUL.

AND I SEE SOCIAL AND EMOTIONAL GROWTH.

SO, I THINK, LIKE I SAID IN THE BEGINNING, THEY WILL BE  OKAY, IF WE ALL WORK TOGETHER AND PUT THIS TIME  AND EFFORT INTO IT AS WE HAVE BEEN.

WE JUST NEED TO CONTINUE DOING IT.

>> JEFF: WHAT ARE THE KIDS AT HIGHLAND DOING TO BE OKAY?

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE COOL THINGS YOU HAVE SEEN IN THE  FACE OF ALL OF THIS?

>> GABALDON: WELL, AT  HIGHLANDS WE ARE REALLY PROUD BECAUSE OUR GRADUATION  RATE HAS BEEN INCREASING OVER THE PAST FIVE TO SEVEN  YEARS, WHICH IS REALLY GOOD, AND WE ARE JUST SEEING A LOT  OF RESILIENCE IN OUR AREA.

BEING THAT WE ARE IN THE  INTERNATIONAL DISTRICT, THERE IS A LOT THAT HAPPENS  IN THE INTERNATIONAL DISTRICT AND NOT  ALL OF IT IS NEGATIVE BUT SOME IS, AND KIDS SHOW JUST  A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF RESILIENCE BY MAKING IT TO  SCHOOL AND GRADUATING IN FOUR YEARS.

NOT ALL GRADUATE IN FOUR YEARS BUT WE ENCOURAGE  STUDENTS, JUST, IT IS IMPORTANT TO GRADUATE.

IF IT TAKES FIVE, THAT IS FINE.

WE WORK WITH STUDENTS WHO ARE NOT ON TRACK BUT MANY  OF OUR STUDENTS ARE GETTING BACK ON TRACK, AND THEY ARE  DOING THE HARD WORK OF TAKING EXTRA CLASSES IN THE  EVENING AND SUMMER AND MAKING IT TO GRADUATION.

SO, IT IS NOT ALL OF THEM BUT A LARGE MAJORITY OF THEM  ARE AND WE ARE HAPPY ABOUT THAT.

>> JEFF: BRYAN, DEVON, THANKS FOR COMING AND THANKS  FOR ENDING WITH THE HOPE.

>> GABALDON: THANKS FOR  HAVING US.

>> SHELTON: THANK YOU.

>> JEFF: LET'S STEP AWAY FOR A MOMENT FROM K-12 AND TURN  OUR ATTENTION TO HIGHER EDUCATION.

ST. JOHN'S COLLEGE HAS CREATED A SEARCHABLE  DATABASE OF BOOKS AND WORKS PUBLISHED BY THEIR ALUMNI.

ONE OF THE LATEST, ADDED TO THE GROWING LIST IS THE  DEATH OF LEARNING.

A CRITIQUE AND A DEFENSE OF  A LIBERAL ARTS EDUCATION BY DR. JOHN AGRESTO, A FORMER  PRESIDENT OF ST. JOHN'S.

HIS WORK IS THE FOUNDATION  FOR A DISCUSSION CORRESPONDENT GWYNETH DOLAND  HOSTED IN MAY WITH DR. AGRESTO AND TWO OTHER  ALUMNI, DR. PATRICIA SAUTHOFF AND SALVATORE  SCIBONA.

HERE'S GWYNETH.

>> GWYNETH: THANK YOU TO OUR GUESTS WHO ARE JOINING FROM  ALL OVER THE WORLD.

DR. AGRESTO, HERE IN THE  UNITED STATES TOP UNIVERSITIES ARE IN TURMOIL  WITH STUDENTS AND OTHERS CAMPING OUT ON CAMPUS,  PROTESTING THE WAR IN GAZA, AT THE SAME TIME SCHOOLS ARE  UNDER FIRE FOR ALLOWING FREEDOM OF SPEECH EVEN WHEN  IT'S UGLY, HURTFUL, HATEFUL.

HOW DOES THIS TENSION OF  THIS MOMENT REFLECT YOUR IDEAS ABOUT HOW EDUCATION  HAS GONE WRONG?

>> DR. AGRESTO: WE CAN SPEND  A LOT OF TIME ON THAT QUESTION, I MUST SAY,  GWYNETH.

I THINK THE SIMPLEST ANSWER  IS WE'VE SORT OF FORGOTTEN WHAT AN EXPANSIVE LIBERAL  EDUCATION SHOULD LOOK LIKE.

WHAT IT ENTAILS.

PART OF IT IS THE FAULT OF STUDENTS, PARENTS, THE  CULTURE.

WE THINK THAT YOU GO TO  COLLEGE, EVEN HIGH SCHOOL, TO GET A JOB.

TO FIND OUT WHAT YOU WANT TO BE FOR THE REST OF YOUR  LIFE.

WHAT A SCARY THOUGHT THAT AT  17 YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO BE FOR THE REST OF  MY LIFE.

I DON'T EVEN KNOW NOW AT 78  WHAT I WANT TO BE FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.

I'M STILL WORKING ON IT.

SO WE HAVE THIS WHOLE  CONNECTION TO UTILITY THAT DEFINES SCHOOL THESE DAYS.

ON THE OTHER HAND, THERE WERE THOSE PURISTS IN THE  LIBERAL ARTS WHO DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT UTILITY AT  ALL.

THAT THE LIBERAL ARTS IS  SIMPLY RAREFIED, PURELY ACADEMIC, AND I TRY TO WALK  THE MIDDLE GROUND BETWEEN THAT.

AND I KNOW THAT'S A TOUGH THING TO DO, ALWAYS TO WALK  THE MIDDLE GROUND BETWEEN THINGS.

I THINK THAT A DECENT, SOLID, LET'S EVEN CALL IT  TRADITIONAL LIBERAL EDUCATION IS A GREAT -- IT'S  A GREAT HELP TO YOU TO FIGURE OUT WHO YOU ARE AND  WHY YOU ARE AND WHAT YOU WANT TO BE, IF POSSIBLE.

AND IT'S A GREAT HELP, A TRADITIONAL EDUCATION, TO  THE COUNTRY.

LOOK AROUND.

DO WE HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND HISTORY,  ECONOMICS, HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY, MOTIVATION OF HUMAN ACTIONS,  THE AMERICAN CONSTITUTIONAL AND PHILOSOPHICAL  PRINCIPLES?

THINK ABOUT HOW MUCH BETTER  WE WOULD BE IF WE UNDERSTOOD THOSE THINGS AS A PEOPLE.

INSTEAD, WE DON'T HAVE THAT.

>> GWYNETH: AS A JOURNALIST,  I OFTEN WISH THAT CONSTITUTIONAL LAW WERE  REQUIRED IN COLLEGE.

>> DR. AGRESTO: AND THAT'S  ANOTHER THING THAT HAPPENED SINCE THE MID TO LATE '80S  WAS ALL THE SET COURSES, WESTERN CIVILIZATION,  AMERICAN HISTORY, PHILOSOPHY, THE CLASSICS,  HAVE ALL FIRST BECAME ELECTIVES RATHER THAN  REQUIRED.

AND THEY WERE SIMPLY  THEMSELVES SPURNED AS SOMEHOW AGAINST THE MODERN  COMING AGE.

AND STUDENTS HAVE REACTED  AGAINST THAT BY SAYING, IF YOU DON'T WANT ME TO STUDY,  IF YOU DON'T THINK IT'S WORTH MY WHILE TO STUDY  HISTORY, OR PHILOSOPHY, OR  CLASSICAL LITERATURE, I'LL TAKE ACCOUNTING, THANK YOU  VERY MUCH.

>> GWYNETH: DR. SAUTHOFF,  I WANT TO COME TO YOU.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US  FROM HONG KONG WHERE IT'S MIDNIGHT.

>> DR. SAUTHOFF: IT SURE IS.

>> GWYNETH: WE APPRECIATE  THIS SACRIFICE ON YOUR PART.

YOUR BOOK FROM OXFORD  UNIVERSITY PRESS IS "ILLNESS AND IMMORTALITY."

IN IT YOU WRITE ABOUT A MEDIEVAL SANSKRIT TEXT, THE  NETRA TANTRA.

PLEASE TELL US WHAT DOES  THIS 1200-YEAR-OLD TEXT HAVE TO GIVE US ABOUT THE WORLD  WE LIVE IN NOW?

I MEAN, WHAT CONNECTS WHAT  YOU'RE STUDYING, LATE AT NIGHT WITH YOUR OIL LAMP,  WHAT CONNECTS THAT TO THINGS THAT ARE RELEVANT TO US HERE  IN NEW MEXICO?

>> DR. SAUTHOFF: WELL, A  LOT, ACTUALLY.

YOU KNOW, THIS BOOK CAME OUT  OF MY PH.D. WORK.

SO IT IS VERY NARROW.

THAT'S JUST THE NATURE OF PH.D. WORK.

BUT THIS IS A BOOK ABOUT THE RITUALS THAT PEOPLE DID TO  PREVENT ILLNESS IN THEIR RELATIVES.

THEIR FEAR OF DEATH.

THEIR HOPE OF LIVING LONG  LIVES.

AND IT TIES INTO MEDICINE.

WHAT I'M STUDYING NOW SOUNDS JUST AS ARCANE, IT'S INDIAN  ALCHEMY.

BUT THIS IS, YOU KNOW, EARLY  PHARMACOLOGY.

I WAS JUST READING SOMETHING  TODAY, A RECIPE FOR RITUAL INGREDIENT THAT IS BASICALLY  A PERFUME.

IT'S THE INGREDIENTS IN THE  PERFUMES AT SEPHORA.

SO WE HAVE THIS WHOLE  HISTORY OF BOTANY AND RELIGION.

ASTRONOMY COMES INTO IT.

YOU HAVE TO DO RITUALS AT A  CERTAIN TIME OF YEAR.

SO WE CAN SEE THESE PEOPLE  WERE JUST LIKE US.

THEY WERE AFRAID OF DEATH.

THEY WERE AFRAID OF ILLNESS.

THEY'RE PRAYING WHEN PEOPLE  ARE ILL.

THEY'RE TURNING TO THE GODS.

THEY'RE TURNING TO MEDICINE.

I MEAN, THEY'RE NO DIFFERENT THAN WE ARE.

THEY'RE JUST WRITING IN A LANGUAGE THAT MOST OF US  CAN'T READ.

>> GWYNETH: I LOVE THAT.

I LOVE THAT.

I WANT TO MOVE TO YOU.

SALVATORE SCIBONA IS A NATIONAL BOOK AWARD  FINALIST.

THE RECIPIENT OF A  GUGGENHEIM FELLOWSHIP, AND HE WAS AWARDED THE $200,000  MILDRED AND HAROLD STRAUSS LIVINGS AWARD FOR HIS MOST  RECENT BOOK "THE VOLUNTEERS."

THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

>> DR. SCIBONA: GOOD TO BE  WITH YOU.

>> GWYNETH: YOU WERE  TERRIBLE IN HIGH SCHOOL, YOU WROTE IN THE   "NEW YORKER."

YOU ALMOST FAILED OUT OF  SCHOOL.

AT SAINT JOHN'S, THOUGH, YOU  LEARNED TO READ, YOU SAID.

AND YOU WENT ON, OF COURSE,  TO THE IOWA WRITERS WORKSHOP WHICH HAS PRODUCED HALF THE  NOVELS ON OUR SHELVES RIGHT NOW, AND A DOZEN PULITZER  PRIZE WINNERS.

SO IT TURNED OUT OKAY.

BUT I WANT YOU TO TALK TO US ABOUT FALLING IN LOVE WITH  READING.

AND HOW THAT IMPACTED YOUR  TRAJECTORY.

HOW THAT GOT YOU WHERE YOU  ARE TODAY.

>> DR. SCIBONA: YEAH, I  THINK I WENT TO SAINT JOHN'S BECAUSE -- ONE OF THE  REASONS I SUCH A TERRIBLE STUDENT WAS THAT I WAS  LEARNING A LOT IN FORMS THAT WERE DISJOINTED.

I WAS BEING TAUGHT LITTLE SKILLS AND LITTLE WIDGETS OF  UNDERSTANDING THAT BORED ME.

AND THEN IN CERTAIN CLASSES  I WAS JUST GIVEN A BOOK TO READ.

JUST THE WHOLE BOOK.

JUST READ THE WHOLE BOOK.

NOVELS, OBVIOUSLY, THAT'S MY BAILIWICK.

BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE FOR WHOM THE BOOK IS KIND OF A  SACRED OBJECT.

AND I HAD NO BOOKS IN THE  HOUSE GROWING UP.

WE HAD A PUBLIC LIBRARY.

BUT THERE WAS A BETTY CROCKER COOKBOOK, AND THE  BIBLE.

NEITHER OF THEM WERE EVER  OPENED.

BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE FOR  WHOM THAT ATTACHMENT AT A CERTAIN POINT IN YOUR  GROWING UP, IS A WAY TOWARD POSSIBILITIES OF EVERY KIND.

AND THE PEOPLE I WENT TO SAINT JOHN'S WITH, YOU KNOW,  AS EVERYBODY -- MOST PEOPLE IN NEW MEXICO PROBABLY KNOW.

THERE'S NO CLASS CHOICE THERE.

AND THE LIBERAL ARTS CURRICULUM IS REALLY,  REALLY, REALLY BROAD.

YOU WOULD BE AMAZED WITH THE  WORK THAT PEOPLE DO COMING OUT OF IT.

I MEAN, I'M THE FICTION WRITER.

OF MY CLOSE FRIENDS FROM THERE, ONE OF THEM, THREE OF  THEM ACTUALLY BECAME ARABIC SPECIALISTS FOR THE NAVY.

ONE IS THE HEAD OF THE PHYSICS DEPARTMENT AT BARD  COLLEGE.

ONE IS A PH.D.

RESEARCHER OF  THE EYEBALL.

THEY COME OUT WITH  PREPARATION TO FOLLOW AN IMMENSE DIVERSITY OF STUDY.

AND ALSO WITH THE HEALTHY CURIOSITY THAT -- AND A WAY  OF SORT OF -- PRACTICE OF USING THEIR CURIOSITY TO  FOLLOW NEW THINGS THROUGHOUT THEIR LIVES.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT WE WERE KIND OF TOLD TO HOPE  FOR, TO EXPECT.

AND I MEAN IT'S TOTALLY  TRUE.

A COUPLE YEARS AGO I WENT TO ICELAND FOR THREE WEEKS TO  DO A CLASS ON ICELANDIC BECAUSE I HAD FALLEN IN LOVE  WITH THIS NOVELIST HALLDÓR LAXNESS WHO DIED ABOUT 20  YEARS AGO.

AND I JUST WANTED TO GET  CLOSER TO THOSE BOOKS.

AND SAINT JOHN -- BECAUSE I  LEARNED ANCIENT GREEK AND ANCIENT FRENCH AT SAINT  JOHN'S, PART OF WHAT WE'RE LEARNING IS HOW TO LEARN A  LANGUAGE.

HOW TO BREAK DOWN A  LANGUAGE.

HOW TO UNDERSTAND THE  STRUCTURE OF A LANGUAGE.

THAT FORM THAT'S FOREIGN TO  YOU, AND ASSEMBLE IT IN YOUR  MIND.

SO SINCE SAINT JOHN'S I'VE  GONE AND STUDIED THREE OTHER LANGUAGES, FORMALLY.

YOU KNOW, NONE OF THOSE THINGS WERE SPECIFICALLY --  I'VE GOT NO SPECIFIC TRAINING FROM SAINT JOHN'S  IN ANY OF THOSE THINGS, BUT I GOT A PERFECT TRAINING  ON HOW TO LEARN THOSE.

>> GWYNETH: THAT'S A GOOD  POINT.

I LIKE IT.

DR. AGRESTO, YOU'VE WRITTEN ABOUT GROWING UP  POOR IN BROOKLYN.

WHERE AS A KID YOUR BEST  OPPORTUNITY WAS TO GET A TRADE AND JOIN A UNION,  RIGHT?

BUT A LIBERAL ARTS EDUCATION  GAVE YOU EVERYTHING.

A CAREER, RECOGNITION,  LEADING SAINT JOHN'S, AND THE AMERICAN UNIVERSITY IN  IRAQ.

BUT THE "DEATH OF LEARNING"  IS ALSO A CRITIQUE OF LIBERAL ARTS EDUCATION.

SO, TALK TO US FOR A MINUTE ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK -- I'M  HERE SITTING IN A UNIVERSITY RIGHT NOW, RIGHT?

WHAT DO WE NEED TO CHANGE TO MAKE IT WORK?

>> DR. AGRESTO: PART OF IT HAS TO DO WITH BEGINNING TO  UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PROMISE OF A LIBERAL EDUCATION IS.

AND AS SALVATORE WAS JUST SAYING, IT DOESN'T TELL YOU  WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE, BUT GIVES YOU THE TOOLS OF BEING  ALL KINDS OF WONDERFUL THINGS.

AND ALL KINDS OF EVEN PRACTICAL THINGS.

BUT WHAT IT DOES BEST IS IT TEACHES YOU HOW TO THINK,  HOW TO SPEAK, HOW TO WRITE WITH CLARITY, WITH  PRECISION, WITH GRACE.

YOU READ SOME OF THE FINEST  THINGS EVER WRITTEN, AND YOU TAKE THEM TO HEART.

WE DON'T ALL TAKE THE SAME THINGS TO HEART.

I STILL CAN'T READ IMMANUEL KANT AND ENJOY IT VERY MUCH.

BUT I CAN READ SIMPLER THINGS.

I CAN READ JEFFERSON AND MADISON.

I CAN READ DE TOCQUEVILLE .

I CAN READ ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

I CAN'T TELL YOU -- YOU MIGHT SAY ABRAHAM LINCOLN, I  HAVE LEARNED MORE ABOUT THINKING OF AMERICA AND ITS  PROMISE AND ITS PROBLEMS FROM READING THE POETRY OF  ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

THINK ABOUT THE GETTYSBURG  ADDRESS.

IT'S ACTUALLY A PRAYER.

FULL OF METAPHORS, FULL OF ALLUSIONS TO THE OLD AND NEW  TESTAMENTS.

AND IT HAS A KIND OF CADENCE  TO IT.

I LEARNED AS MUCH FROM  READING LINCOLN AS I LEARNED FROM SHAKESPEARE, WHO I  THINK IS HIS 460TH BIRTHDAY TODAY.

I REMEMBER WHEN I FIRST UNDERSTOOD WHAT IT MEANT  THAT SHAKESPEARE WRITES HIS PLAYS IN POETRY.

THAT WAS AMAZING TO ME.

>> GWYNETH: NOW, LET ME JUST  SAY, WE ARE THE FOUR OF US SITTING HERE RIGHT NOW, SORT  OF SLIGHTLY OLDER WHITE PEOPLE, RIGHT?

AND IS THERE AN ELEMENT OF PRIVILEGE IN A LIBERAL ARTS  EDUCATION?

I WANT TO PUT THIS TO ALL OF  YOU AS A QUESTION.

IS THIS AS ACCESSIBLE TODAY  TO EVERYONE AS IT SHOULD BE?

I MEAN, HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED  TO SAY TO A KID WHO IS TRYING TO CLIMB OUT OF  POVERTY NOW YOU SHOULDN'T BE AN ACCOUNTANT, RIGHT?

YOU SHOULDN'T GO TO A COMMUNITY COLLEGE.

>> DR. AGRESTO: WE DON'T SAY THAT TO THEM.

WE SAY LEARN ABOUT THE WORLD AND LEARN ABOUT YOURSELF.

AND LEARN ABOUT YOUR POSSIBILITIES.

AND THEN YOU WANT TO BE AN ACCOUNTANT, YOU'LL BE THE  BEST ACCOUNTANT IN THE FIRM.

DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.

BUT HEY, SALVATORE AND I GREW UP POOR.

I HAD NO BOOKS IN MY HOUSE EITHER.

NONE.

AND IT WAS AN AMAZING THING  TO DISCOVER READING, IDEAS.

YOU HAVE TWO POOR ITALIAN  GUYS HERE THAT FELL IN LOVE WITH WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE.

YOU COULDN'T BE DEADER AND WHITER THAN WILLIAM  SHAKESPEARE.

>> DR. SCIBONA: I THINK  YOU'RE RIGHT.

IT IS TOTALLY A PRIVILEGE  AND IT'S A PRIVILEGE THAT OUGHT  TO BE AVAILABLE TO ANYBODY WHO WANTS IT.

>> DR. AGRESTO: ABSOLUTELY.

>> DR. SAUTHOFF: I THINK I  HAVE A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE ON IT BECAUSE I  HAVEN'T TAUGHT IN THE UNITED STATES SINCE, WELL, IT'S  BEEN ABOUT 20 YEARS.

I'VE BEEN TEACHING IN INDIA,  CANADA, AND NOW HONG KONG.

IN CANADA, I THINK, IS MORE  LIKE THE U.S.

IT'S STILL NOT AS ACCEPTED.

BUT IN INDIA AND IN HONG KONG THERE'S A PUSH TOWARD  LIBERAL ARTS EDUCATION.

THEY'RE KIND OF PUSHING  TOWARD THAT IDEALIZED WESTERN LIBERAL ARTS  EDUCATION THAT WE HAD.

SO AT MY UNIVERSITY THERE  ARE GENERAL STUDIES COURSES THAT EVERY STUDENT HAS TO  TAKE.

AND THEY'RE ALL LIBERAL  ARTS.

SO THERE IS, GLOBALLY, I  THINK IT'S STILL VERY RESPECTED IN A WAY THAT IT'S  NOT BACK HOME.

>> GWYNETH: SALVATORE, WE  HAVE ONE MINUTE LEFT.

DID YOU WANT TO SHARE  SOMETHING?

>> DR. SCIBONA: WELL, YEAH.

I JUST DON'T -- I THINK THE RAP AGAINST THE LIBERAL  ARTS -- THE TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE RAP RIGHT NOW  HAS TO DO WITH RETURN ON INVESTMENT.

AND I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT.

IT IS A HUGE UNDERTAKING TO GO INTO DEBT, TO WORK.

LOTS OF PLACES HAVE LOOKED AT THIS PROBLEM AND NOT  FIGURED OUT -- AND HAVE NOT FIGURED OUT HOW TO CRACK IT.

SAINT JOHN'S DID A REMARKABLE THING A NUMBER  YEARS AGO WHERE THEY KNOCKED DOWN THE TUITION.

PARTLY BECAUSE THERE WAS A STICKER PRICE PROBLEM THAT  MADE A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE FEEL LIKE IT WAS  INACCESSIBLE TO THEM BEFORE THEY EVEN GOT INTO THE  FINANCIAL AID PROCESS.

BUT AT A DEEPER LEVEL, THE  ISSUE IS THAT WHOLE ARGUMENT THAT AN EDUCATION NEEDS TO  BE ABOUT RETURN ON INVESTMENT TREATS A PERSON'S  MIND AS THOUGH IT'S AN INSTRUMENT OF CAPITAL AND  NOTHING ELSE.

YOU KNOW, AS THOUGH YOU'RE  GOING TO SPEND MONEY ON YOUR MIND AND YOU'RE GOING TO  EXTRACT A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY OUT OF IT.

OF COURSE WE WANT -- A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF THAT IS  NECESSARY IN LIFE.

BUT IT'S THE CORE OF WHAT  THE HUMANIST EDUCATION IS FOR.

AND YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT WHAT MOST OF US ARE LIVING FOR.

WE'RE NOT REALLY LIVING FOR THAT.

A LIBERAL ARTS EDUCATION IS REALLY ABOUT YOUR LIFE, MORE  THAN IT'S ABOUT YOUR OCCUPATION.

YOUR OCCUPATION IS PART OF YOUR LIFE.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

>> GWYNETH: DR. PATRICIA  SAUTHOFF, ONE LAST THOUGHT  FROM YOU.

>> DR. SAUTHOFF: ONE OF THE  GREATEST THINGS I'VE GOTTEN FROM MY LIBERAL ARTS  EDUCATION IS THE CONTEXT.

SO WHEN I TRAVEL THE WORLD,  I DON'T STUDY CHINA, BUT NOW THAT I LIVE IN HONG KONG,  I'VE READ THE CLASSICS.

AND SO I HAVE THIS CONTEXT  THAT SO MANY EXPATS DON'T HAVE.

I WENT TO JAPAN RECENTLY.

I'VE READ THEIR BOOKS.

SO I KNOW SOME OF THE HISTORY.

I GOT INTO THIS SO THAT I COULD TRAVEL THE WORLD  WITHOUT HAVING ANY MONEY TO DO SO.

AND I'VE BEEN LUCKY ENOUGH TO NOW TRAVEL THE WORLD AND  TAKE THAT KNOWLEDGE THAT I GOT WITH ME ON MY  ADVENTURES.

>> GWYNETH: THANK YOU FOR  THAT.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE ALL OF  YOUR TIME.

>> JEFF: THANKS TO GWYNETH  AND THOSE THREE AUTHORS.

NOW, BACK TO K-12 AND A  PROGRAM AIMING TO CONNECT STUDENTS TO THE ENVIRONMENT  AROUND THEM.

NEXT TIME YOU PASS THROUGH  THE RIO GRANDE CORRIDOR, KEEP AN EYE OUT FOR THE  THRIVING MILKWEED PLANTS.

THOSE PLANTS ARE THERE  THANKS IN PART TO STUDENTS FROM SANDIA HIGH SCHOOL WHO  THIS SPRING SET ASIDE THEIR TEXTBOOKS TO PLANT THOUSANDS  OF SEEDS.

WE FIRST TOLD YOU ABOUT THE  RIVER FOR MONARCHS PROJECT THIS SPRING.

THE GOAL?

TO HELP RESTORE THE RIO  GRANDE'S HABITAT AND MAKE THE LAND MORE HOSPITABLE FOR  THE MONARCH BUTTERFLY.

[MUSIC PLAYING]  >> WE ARE GOING TO PLANT IN THE GREENHOUSE AND YOU'LL  SEE THESE PLANTS HERE IN THE GREENHOUSE FOR THE NEXT FEW  MONTHS.

SO THEY WILL GET PLANTED  NEXT FALL, AND THAT WILL GIVE THEM LOTS OF TIME TO  GROW AND GET NICE ROOTS SO WE CAN PUT THEM OUT IN THE  FIELD.

ALL RIGHT, YOU GUYS CAN HEAD  INTO THE GREENHOUSE.

IS ANYONE EXCITED ABOUT  MIXING SOIL AND GETTING REALLY  DIRTY?

>> KENT: I GOT SO MESSY  TODAY.

THERE WAS A LOT OF DIRT BUT  IT WAS FUN, VERY FUN.

>> BLIND: I LOVE MONARCHS.

I HAVE BEEN INTERESTED IN THEM FOREVER.

AND WE ARE HELPING THE MONARCHS BECAUSE THERE IS  LOTS OF INVASIVE SPECIES IN NEW MEXICO THAT ARE  INTERFERING WITH THE MILKWEED'S GROWTH.

THE MONARCHS, CATERPILLARS CAN ONLY EAT OFF THE  MILKWEED.

SO, IT IS CRUCIAL THAT WE  PLANT THIS MILKWEED OUT THERE IN AREAS WHERE THE  BUTTERFLIES WILL BE MIGRATING FROM THE U.S. TO  MEXICO.

WE NEED TO GET TWO SPECIES  OF MILKWEED PLANTED THAT ARE NATIVE TO NEW MEXICO BY THE  RIVERS.

THAT WAY THE MONARCHS CAN  LAY EGGS AND CATERPILLARS CAN HATCH AND FEED OFF OF  THEM.

I SEE THIS BEAUTIFUL LITTLE  CREATURE THAT IS POLLINATING DIFFERENT PLANTS AND REALLY  HELPING OUR ENVIRONMENT.

I THINK ALL SPECIES ARE  CRUCIAL TO KEEP THE ECOSYSTEM RUNNING BECAUSE IF  ONE OF THOSE SPECIES FALLS DOWN, IT IS A CHAIN  REACTION.

AND SO SPECIES AFTER  SPECIES, PLANT OR ANIMAL, IS GOING TO GET AFFECTED.

EVERYTHING IS CONNECTED SOMEHOW IN SOME WAY.

>> KENT: IN 2024, THEY ARE GOING TO PLANT IT BY THE  BOSQUE AND, YEAH, WE ARE JUST GOING TO WAIT FOR THE  PLANTS TO GROW IN THE GREENHOUSE.

>> GBARA: I THINK THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE OUR  ENVIRONMENT ISN'T THE BEST, SO PLANTING IN GENERAL IS  REALLY GOOD ESPECIALLY HAVING LIKE A  COMMUNITY LIKE A SCHOOL COME TOGETHER AND PLANT.

IT GETS THE JOB DONE FASTER.

>> ROBACK: WHEN WE WENT OUT  TODAY TO PLANT MILKWEEDS, WE HAD SEVERAL STATIONS  WHERE STUDENTS WERE SPLIT UP INTO DIFFERENT GROUPS.

THE FIRST GROUP WAS PREPARING THE SOIL TO GET IT  READY FOR THE SEEDS.

THEY GOT A WHEELBARROW FULL,  THEY WENT TO THE NEXT GROUP AND WHAT THAT GROUP IS DOING  WAS TAKING THE SEED TRAYS THAT HAVE 98 POTS EACH, AND  WE WERE FILLING THOSE WITH SOILS, WE WERE TAMPING THEM  DOWN TO GET THE AIR POCKETS OUT AND TOPPING THEM OFF.

WHEN THAT WAS FINISHED, WE WENT TO THE THIRD AND LAST  STATION IS WHERE WE BROUGHT THEM PHYSICALLY INTO THE  GREENHOUSE AND THEN THE STUDENTS WERE TAKING TWO OR  THREE MILKWEED SEEDS EACH AND PUTTING THEM INTO THE  POTS VERY CAREFULLY.

>> TURK: SO, IF YOU'RE DOING  SEEDLINGS, YOU CAN DO THEM LIKE THIS, PUT THEM  ALL TOGETHER.

WE DON'T WANT ANYMORE THAN  ABOUT AN INCH OF SPACE BETWEEN THE TOP -- THE TOP  OF THE POT AND THE TOP OF THE SOIL AND THEN JUST  COVER THEM UP.

SO, THAT IS AN ENTIRE TRAY,  THANK YOU.

>> ROBACK:THAT TOOK A LOT OF  TIME AND THEN, OF COURSE, WATERING THROUGHOUT THE  WHOLE PROCESS.

THIS IS ALL NEW TO THEM.

I AM SURE MOST OF THEM HAVE NOT HAD ANY EXPERIENCE LIKE  THIS WHATSOEVER.

SO I THINK BETWEEN MYSELF  AND FOLKS -- WE JUST KIND OF SHOW THEM IT IS JUST DIRT.

YOU DO HAVE TO DO THINGS RIGHT, BUT, YOU KNOW, IF A  LITTLE BIT FALLS OUT, IT IS OKAY.

IF ONE SEED FALLS, IT IS OKAY.

IT IS NOT SO SERIOUS THAT THEY CAN'T CRACK A SMILE OR  SOMETHING, LIKE WE ARE STILL -- IT IS GOING TO WORK  OUT.

WE ARE STILL PLANTING  THOUSANDS OF MILKWEED.

THERE IS NO DIVORCE BETWEEN  HAVING THEM ENJOYING IT AND DOING SOMETHING IMPORTANT.

ONE OF MY GOALS IS TO KIND OF OPEN THEIR EYES TO THIS,  HOW AMAZING A PLACE NEW MEXICO IS, LIKE  ENVIRONMENTALLY SPEAKING, WE HAVE SO MANY BIOMES THAT  MEET RIGHT HERE.

ALBUQUERQUE IS ON ONE OF  FIVE RICH VALLEYS IN THE WORLD.

WE HAVE MORE VOLCANOES THAN ALMOST ANY OTHER STATE.

IT IS SUCH A GREAT PLACE.

SO, OUR NATURAL AREA OUT  HERE IS NOTHING BUT NATIVE SPECIES AND MONARCHS ARE  ONE OF THOSE AND MILKWEEDS ARE ONE OF THOSE.

BY PROTECTING AND RESTORING SOME OF THE HABITAT FOR  MILKWEED, WE ARE ALSO INADVERTENTLY PROTECTING IT  FOR MANY OTHER SPECIES AND SO I THINK MAYBE THE  IMPORTANCE OF INTACT HABITAT IS CRUCIAL.

A LOT OF VACANT LOTS ARE GOING TO HAVE A HANDFUL OF  TUMBLEWEEDS, GOATHEADS, RAGWEEDS, INVASIVE SPECIES.

AND, SO, IF WE ARE OUT THERE ACTIVELY PLANTING SOME OF  THE NATIVE SPECIES IT GETS THEM A FOOTHOLD AND GET THEM  ESTABLISHED AND NATIVES BEGET NATIVES BEGET NATIVES.

AND MILKWEEDS ARE GOING TO HELP THE GOLDENRODS COME IN  AND THE GRAMA GRASS.

IT IS KIND OF LIKE A  SNOWBALL EFFECT, HOPEFULLY, RIGHT.

ONE NATIVE SPECIES PROTECTING THAT ONE,  PROTECTS THIS ONE, BECAUSE THAT IS BACK, THE  THIRD ONE COMES IN AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL SEE THE  PROJECT KIND OF BLOSSOM AND GROW.

I THINK FOR ME A REALLY IMPORTANT PART OF BEING PART  OF PROJECT IS I LIKE TEACHING THE  THEORY OF BIOLOGY, STUFF FROM THE BOOK, BUT, INSTEAD  OF JUST LECTURING ON THE STEPS OF MITOSIS OR THE  IMPORTANCE OF KEYSTONE SPECIES, I CAN GO OUT  AND SAY, HERE KIDS, LET'S GO OUT AND WORK WITH THIS AND  MAKE A DIFFERENCE WITH THIS.

NOT ONLY PLANTING THE SEED  BUT SEEING THE SEED READY TO WAKE UP, WAKING THE SEED UP,  PLANTING THE SEED AND TAKING CARE OF THESE PLANTS FOR  MONTHS AND MONTHS, UNTIL THEY ARE MATURE ENOUGH AND  LARGE ENOUGH TO TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES IN THE WILD.

WE GET TO GO OUT TO THE WILD.

WE GET TO PLANT THESE IN THESE COMPROMISED, RIGHT  NOW, ECOSYSTEMS AND WATCH HOW WHAT WE HAVE DONE IS  GOING TO HELP RESTORE THESE HABITATS.

BY DOING SO IT IS GOING TO BE MORE OF A RESOURCE FOR  MONARCHS AND MAYBE OTHER SPECIES.

AND MY STUDENTS GET TO BE ONE OF THE STEPS IN THE MANY  STEPS IT TAKES TO KIND OF BRING THE NATIVE NEW MEXICO  ECOSYSTEM BACK TO WHERE IT SHOULD BE.

I SAY, HERE KIDS, HERE IS HOW WE HELPED AND HERE IS  HOW IT IS GOING TO MAKE POSITIVE IMPACTS.

AND THIS IS HOW YOU'RE GETTING TO BE ABLE TO SEE  IT.

YOU MADE THIS HAPPEN AND,  SO, I THINK THAT IS -- HOW DO YOU PUT A PRICE ON  THAT FOR STUDENTS?

I THINK THAT'S GREAT.

>> JEFF: THANKS FOR EVERYONE WHO CONTRIBUTED TO THIS  WEEK'S SHOW, AND THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

AS ALWAYS, WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

BUT FIRST, A MESSAGE FROM OUR LAND'S LAURA PASKUS.

>> LAURA: HI, I'M LAURA PASKUS SENIOR PRODUCER OF  OUR LAND.

A FEW YEARS AGO I STARTED  WORKING WITH MOLLIE PARSONS AN ENVIRONMENTAL EDUCATOR TO  CREATE MIDDLE SCHOOL LESSON PLANS AROUND OUR  ENVIRONMENTAL PROGRAMMING.

I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE REALLY  NEAT TO TAKE SOME OF OUR SHOWS ABOUT THINGS LIKE  CLIMATE CHANGE, WATER, AND WILDLIFE, AND PROVIDE  STUDENTS WITH LOCALIZED, ACCURATE INFORMATION ABOUT  NEW MEXICO'S ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES.

AND IT HAS BEEN SO FUN WORKING WITH MOLLIE.

THIS SUMMER, WE RELEASED THREE NEW LESSON PLANS BASED  ON OUR RECENT SHOW LOVING OUR CHANGING HOMELANDS.

THE THREE NEW LESSONS FEATURE VIDEOS PROM PAULA  GARCIA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE NEW MEXICO ACEQUIA  ASSOCIATION, AND THERESA PASQUAL AND AARON LOWDEN  FROM THE PUEBLO OF ACOMA.

THEY TALK ABOUT CLIMATE  CHANGE, STEWARDSHIP, WATERSHEDS, SEEDS AND  CULTURE, AND HOW WE FIT INTO THE LANDSCAPES AROUND US.

HOW WE EXIST IN RELATIONSHIP WITH OUR WATERS, LANDS AND  COMMUNITIES.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A  MIDDLE SCHOOL STUDENT OR A TEACHER TO LEARN ABOUT THESE  THINGS.

ANYONE CAN VISIT  NMPBS.ORG/OURLAND.

OR YOU CAN GOOGLE PBS  LEARNING MEDIA AND OUR LAND.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS  LIKE YOU.