>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS - WATER ALWAYS WINS.

A CONVERSATION WITH A JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR WHO SAYS THE BLAME FOR OUR WATER WOES GOES BEYOND CLIMATE CHANGE.

>> Erica: ONE THING THAT I'M NOT SEEING IS THAT, IN FACT, OUR DEVELOPMENT CHOICES HAVE A LOT TO DO WITH THE DISASTERS THAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING.

>> Gene: AND, CALLING FOR A REFERENDUM ON ABORTION.

OUR LINE OPINION PANEL REACTS TO GOP NOMINEE MARK RONCHETTI'S LATEST TV AD, AND THE RESPONSE FROM THE GOVERNOR.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

>> Gene: THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I'M YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

CANDIDATE MARK RONCHETTI'S CALL FOR AN ABORTION REFERENDUM IS PART OF A NATIONAL TREND.

IN ABOUT 20 MINUTES I'LL ASK OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS IF IT MAKES SENSE FOR NEW MEXICO.

IN JUST 15 MINUTES, OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS SITS DOWN WITH A NEW MEXICO HIGH SCHOOL SCIENCE TEACHER WHO'S GETTING SOME NATIONAL ATTENTION.

LAURA ASKS HIM HOW HE'S HELPING HIS STUDENTS ADDRESS THE ENVIRONMENTAL CHALLENGES THEY'LL FACE FOR YEARS TO COME.

THEN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HOUR, THE LINE PANEL AND I TALK THROUGH NEWS THAT STATE LAWMAKERS ARE CONSIDERING RAISING ALCOHOL TAXES IN THE 2023 SESSION.

BUT WE START WITH THE ROLLERCOASTER OF ACCUSATIONS SURROUNDING A SEXUAL HARASSMENT SCANDAL IN THE ROUNDHOUSE.

LET'S GET TO THE LINE.

>> Gene: WELCOME TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS FOR THE WEEK.

WE HAVE FORMER STATE SENATOR DEDE FELDMAN WITH US.

MERRITT ALLEN OF VOX OPTIMA PUBLIC RELATIONS.

ALWAYS GREAT TO HAVE MERRITT.

AND IT'S GREAT TO SEE POLITICAL PSYCHOLOGIST AND AUTHOR MARTHA BURK BACK WITH US.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

NOW, WE START TODAY WITH SOME KEY DEVELOPMENTS IN A SEXUAL HARASSMENT SCANDAL SURROUNDING DISTRICT 15 STATE SENATOR DANIEL IVEY-SOTO.

THIS WEEK, MR. IVEY-SOTO ANNOUNCED AN INVESTIGATION INTO ALLEGATIONS OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT AGAINST HIM HAD BEEN INDEFINITELY SUSPENDED, WITH NO FURTHER ACTION TO BE TAKEN.

HOWEVER, A DOCUMENT PUBLISHED THURSDAY BY THE SANTA FE REPORTER SHOWS AN INVESTIGATION BY A SPECIAL COUNSEL FOUND PROBABLE CAUSE TO INDICATE THAT MR. IVEY-SOTO VIOLATED ANTI-HARASSMENT POLICIES IN TWO OF THREE REPORTED INCIDENTS.

BUT, THERE'S ANOTHER TWIST.

MR. IVEY-SOTO NOW CLAIMS HE RECEIVED A CALL AT THE DIRECTION OF SENATE PRESIDENT PRO TEM MIMI STEWART ADVISING HIM TO RESIGN AS CHAIR OF THE SENATE RULES COMMITTEE, OR THE DOCUMENT WOULD BE LEAKED.

HE REPORTED THAT CALL TO THE FBI, ALLEGING ATTEMPTED EXTORTION.

NOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS TO BE ANSWERED, BUT LET'S START WITH THIS INVESTIGATION.

IF THERE WAS PROBABLE CAUSE IN TWO INSTANCES, MARTHA BURK, WHY WOULD THE FOUR-PERSON SENATE PANEL IN CHARGE OF THE INVESTIGATION DROP IT, LIKE MR. IVEY-SOTO CLAIMS?

>> Martha: IT'S HARD TO KNOW, GENE, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE MAKEUP OF THE GROUP, IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THEY JUST COULDN'T AGREE.

THERE MAY HAVE BEEN ONE PERSON THAT HELD OUT, THERE MAY HAVE BEEN TWO, PROBABLY NO MORE THAN THAT, BUT IF THEY COULDN'T AGREE AND THEY WEREN'T WILLING TO SAY HE'S GUILTY OR HE'S NOT GUILTY, THEY JUST SAID, LET'S JUST TAKE A DIVE ON THIS ONE, WHICH WAS NOT VERY COURAGEOUS.

BUT IT MAY TURN OUT TO BENEFIT HIM, BECAUSE HE'S MISCHARACTERIZING IT, YOU KNOW.

HE'S PRETENDING LIKE IT'S THIS OLD TERM, COMPLETELY EXONERATED.

WELL, THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

THEY'RE JUST NOT GOING TO COMMENT ANYMORE.

>> Gene: YEAH.

BY THE WAY, SOURCE NEW MEXICO REACHED OUT TO THE LAWMAKERS.

SENATOR LINDA LOPEZ HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE, OF COURSE.

SENATOR BENNY SHENDO OF JEMEZ, SENATOR CRYSTAL DIAMOND IN DEMING, AND PAT WOODS, OF COURSE, FROM BROADVIEW.

ALL OF THEM REFUSED TO COMMENT OR DID NOT RETURN CALLS.

MERRITT, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS SITUATION ON THE PROGRAM SEVEN MONTHS AGO WHEN IT STARTED.

A FEMALE LOBBYIST CLAIMS MR. IVEY-SOTO HARASSED HER MULTIPLE TIMES AND GROPED HER.

SHE ALSO CLAIMS THE SENATOR BLOCKED VOTING RIGHTS POLICIES SHE WAS PUSHING BECAUSE HAD REJECTED HIS SEXUAL ADVANCES.

THERE WERE CALLS FOR HIS RESIGNATION THEN AND NOTHING HAPPENED.

THAT WAS A LONG TIME AGO.

SHOULD THE GOVERNOR STEP IN IF HIS PEERS WON'T TAKE ANY ACTION HERE?

>> Merritt: WELL, I THINK A LOT OF THE SILENCE IS INTERESTING.

I THINK THE SILENCE FROM THE GOVERNOR IS INTERESTING, WHO IS CERTAINLY WILLING TO SPEAK OUT OVER SENATOR PADILLA, MICHAEL PADILLA, SEVERAL YEARS AGO AND BASICALLY SHUT DOWN HIS LIEUTENANT GUBINATORIAL BID.

I THINK THE SILENCE FROM THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OF NEW MEXICO IS SURPRISING, WHO ARE GENERALLY WILLING TO JUMP ON ANY HINT OF A SCANDAL FROM THE OPPOSITION.

AND I'M FRANKLY DISAPPOINTED THAT MY FELLOW REPUBLICANS AREN'T WILLING TO SPEAK OUT ON THE TOPIC OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

AND AS YOU MAY REMEMBER, I DID NOT INTERVIEW MARIANNA ANAYA, WHO WAS UNABLE TO SPEAK OUT AFTER SHE FILED HER FORMAL COMPLAINT DUE TO CONFIDENTIALITY REQUIREMENTS, BUT I INTERVIEWED THREE OF IVEY-SOTO'S ACCUSERS FROM THE LOBBYING GROUPS WHO WROTE AN OPEN LETTER IN FOLLOW UP TO MARIANNA ANAYA'S OPEN LETTER ACCUSING HIM OF EIGHT MORE COUNTS OF HARASSMENT, OR SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

I INTERVIEWED THEM FOR TWO HOURS ON LIVE RADIO ON KKOB.

AND I'VE ALSO CONDUCTED A NUMBER OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT INVESTIGATIONS ON ACTIVE DUTY IN THE NAVY TO FIND PROBABLE CAUSE TO TAKE FURTHER ACTION IN MY PROFESSIONAL LIFE, AND I WAS STUNNED AT WHAT THESE WOMEN TOLD ME AND WHAT THEY WERE WILLING TO SHARE ON LIVE MEDIA.

SO CERTAINLY -- AND I READ THE LEAKED REPORT FROM THE SPECIAL COUNSEL BROUGHT IN BY THE LEGISLATIVE ETHICS COMMITTEE.

HE DID FIND PROBABLE CAUSE FOR TWO OF THE SEXUAL HARASSMENT COMPLAINTS.

HE DID NOT FIND PROBABLE CAUSE FOR THE ONE HARASSMENT COMPLAINT.

I FEEL THAT READING FROM THE REPORTING FROM THE SANTA FE REPORTER AND SOME STATEMENTS FROM AN INTERVIEW WITH SENATOR STEWART, IT APPEARS THAT THERE MAY HAVE BEEN A TIE VOTE FROM THE FOUR-PERSON INVESTIGATIVE SUBCOMMITTEE AND THAT'S WHY IT DIDN'T GO FORWARD.

AND MY GUESS IS IT MIGHT HAVE GONE ALONG PARTISAN LINES.

THAT'S JUST A GUESS, BECAUSE THIS IS STILL POLITICS.

YOU KNOW, POLITICS ARE STILL IN PLAY HERE.

WHAT I FIND VERY INTERESTING IS WE SEE GAPS IN THE POLICY.

MARIANNA ANAYA IS NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK OUT.

SHE FILED A LAWSUIT SO THAT SHE IS ABLE TO OVERTURN THIS GAG ORDER AND DESCRIBE FROM HER PERSPECTIVE WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THIS PROCESS, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE ONLY PERSON WHO CAN SAY ANYTHING IS SENATOR IVEY-SOTO, AND HE HAS CERTAINLY TAKING CONTROL OF THE NARRATIVE AS BEST HE CAN, ALTHOUGH THIS NARRATIVE IS TURNING BIZARRE, ISN'T IT?

>> Gene: YES, IT IS.

YES, IT IS.

MARTHA BURKE, LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THAT, THIS IDEA THAT MR. IVEY-SOTO'S ACCUSERS, THEY CAN'T SPEAK ABOUT THIS SITUATION BECAUSE OF THE CONFIDENTIALITY REQUIREMENT.

DO WE HAVE A PROBABLE HERE WITH THAT REQUIREMENT?

>> Martha: WE'VE GOT A BIG PROBLEM, GENE, BECAUSE THE ACCUSER CANNOT SPEAK OUT, BUT THE ACCUSED CAN GET OUT THERE AND BLAB ALL HE WANTS TO, AND THAT IS THE MOST ONE-SIDED SITUATION THAT I CAN FLATLY IMAGINE.

I HAVE TAKEN THE LIBERTY OF SORT OF CONSOLIDATING HIS DEFENSE.

HE WROTE THIS BIG OP-ED, WHICH I KNOW WE'RE GOING TO GET INTO IN A MINUTE, BUT IT BOILS DOWN TO THIS.

HE SAYS, I DIDN'T DO IT.

BUT IF I DID IT, IT'S BECAUSE MY MOTHER WAS BORN IN CUBA, I SUFFERED CHILD ABUSE, AND I CAN'T HEAR VERY WELL.

>> Gene: RIGHT.

>> Martha: I JUST WONDER IF HE WEARS A HEARING SAID.

>> Merritt: I'VE BEEN PROFOUNDLY DEAF SINCE THE AGE OF 28, AND I'M NOW 52, AND I HAVE MANAGED TO NOT BE ACCUSED OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

I WOULD JUST LIKE TO PUT THAT ON THE RECORD.

>> Gene: MARTHA, WHILE I'VE GOT YOU HERE FOR A QUICK SECOND, I DO WANT TO GET YOUR OPINION ABOUT WHAT PRO TEM MIMI STEWART HAD TO SAY ABOUT THIS, OR THE ACCUSATIONS ABOUT HER.

ANY SENSE OF THAT?

THAT'S A FAIRLY HEAVY CHARGE.

>> Martha: WELL, I AGREE, IT IS A HEAVY CHARGE, AND I FELT LIKE, AS MANY OTHER PEOPLE DO, IT'S TIME FOR A HEAVY CHARGE.

I MEAN, WE'VE GOT SO MUCH CONFUSION HERE.

AS MERRITT SAID, PROBABLY THE COMMITTEE DEADLOCKED, SO THEY COULDN'T DO ANYTHING.

WE'VE GOT THE HE CAN TALK AND SHE CAN'T ISSUE.

AND IT'S A REALLY HARD BALL OF WAX, SO TO SPEAK, TO USE AN OUTDATED TERM.

SO I THINK A HEAVY ACCUSATION MAY BE APPROPRIATE AT THIS TIME >> Gene: INTERESTING POINT THERE.

SENATOR, I'M STILL PRETTY AMAZED AT THE TIMING OF THIS WHOLE THING.

MR. IVEY-SOTO SAYS THE SANTA FE REPORTER PUBLISHED THE LEAKED REPORT ABOUT AN HOUR AFTER HE FILED HIS REPORT WITH THE FBI, AND IF TRUE, YOU TIMING THERE ISN'T GREAT, OPTICALLY, AS THEY SAY.

IS THIS AS SERIOUS AS THE SENATOR WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE?

>> Dede: NO.

I THINK THESE KIND OF LEAKS ARE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A TRANSPARENT PROCESS.

THIS PROCESS IS CLOUDED IN SECRECY.

YOU KNOW, IT'S FLAWED IN SO MANY WAYS THAT IT IS HARD TO COUNT.

BUT I'M REALLY GLAD THAT THAT DOCUMENT WAS LEAKED, AND I REALLY ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO READ THAT DOCUMENT, BECAUSE IT IS EYE-OPENING.

AND TO MERRITT'S POINT, AS TO WHY THERE'S BEEN SUCH SILENCE FROM MANY SIDES ON THIS, I THINK THERE'S SOME PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT ARE AFRAID OF DANIEL IVEY-SOTO, AND DON'T WANT TO TANGLE WITH HIM, BECAUSE HE DOES THINGS LIKE GO TO THE FBI AND MAKE ALL KINDS OF HARSH STATEMENTS THAT PEOPLE ARE FRANKLY -- HE'S INTIMIDATING.

AND I MUST GIVE A DISCLAIMER, BECAUSE ONE OF THE WOMEN THAT MERRITT INTERVIEWED WHO ALSO SIGNED ONE OF THE EIGHT MORE COMPLAINTS LODGED AGAINST THE SENATOR WAS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF COMMON CAUSE.

AND YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THESE WOMEN COME FORTH AT SOME RISK TO THEIR REPUTATIONS, TO THEIR BILLS, TO THEIR OWN SAFETY.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, I REALLY ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO READ THAT REPORT.

IT INCLUDES NOT JUST INFORMATION ABOUT THE EXACT ACCUSATIONS FROM MARIANNA ANAYA, BUT SEVERAL OTHER INSTANCES OF ALLEGED SEXUAL HARASSMENT WITNESSED BY OTHER SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES THAT I THINK ARE RELEVANT HERE, AND CERTAINLY RELEVANT WHEN IT COMES TO THE REPUTATION OF THE SENATE.

THE REPUTATION OF THE SENATE IS REALLY AT STAKE HERE, AND UNLESS THERE IS SOME SORT OF FIX TO THIS FLAWED PROCESS, OR UNLESS THEY DO SOMETHING, SEND A SIGNAL TO THE PUBLIC THAT THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR IS NOT ACCEPTABLE -- AND EXPULSION IS ONLY ONE OF THE REMEDIES THAT THEY HAVE -- I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE A REAL LOSS OF PUBLIC CONFIDENCE IN THE NEW MEXICO SENATE.

THAT'S GOING TO SPILL OVER INTO POLITICAL RACES THAT ARE HAPPENING IN NOVEMBER, AND IT'S GOING TO HAVE SOME REALLY LONG-RANGE IMPLICATIONS.

SO I THINK THAT THERE ARE TWO MEMBERS OF THE LEGISLATIVE ETHICS COMMITTEE WHICH HAVE PROPOSED A FIX TO THE POSSIBLE PROBLEM OF A TIE VOTE ON THAT SUBCOMMITTEE, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE CONSIDERED BY THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON MONDAY.

SO TUNE IN FOR THAT HEARING.

I THINK THAT SHOULD BE INTERESTING.

BUT FIRST OF ALL, WHY ARE THE SENATORS, THEMSELVES, JUDGING THEMSELVES?

WHY ISN'T THERE AN INDEPENDENT BODY, THE ETHICS COMMISSION, WHICH WE STRUGGLED TO SET UP, WHY DON'T THEY HAVE A ROLE IN THIS RATHER THAN HAVING THE OTHER CHICKENS, THE OTHER HENS IN THE HOUSE, DECIDING WHICH ONE SHOULD BE THROWN OUT OR NOT THROWN OUT.

AND REMEMBER, WHEN YOU'RE A SENATOR, YOU WANT THE VOTE OF THE PERSON THAT MAY BE EXONERATED, SO YOU'RE AFRAID TO VOTE AGAINST THAT PERSON.

SO ANYWAY, JUST A FEW PROBLEMS.

>> Gene: THANK YOU SO MUCH, SENATOR, FOR THAT.

THAT'S INSIGHT WE COULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN ANYWHERE ELSE, AND I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THAT.

I'M VERY UNCLEAR WHERE THIS IS ALL GOING TO HEAD.

I APPRECIATE YOUR POINT, AGAIN, THAT THE POLITICAL SEASON IS UPON US, ANYBODY CAN MAKE ANYTHING OF ANYTHING IF THEY WANT TO.

BUT FIRST THINGS FIRST, WE'VE GOT TO FIX THIS PROCESS WHERE THE ACCUSER IS HELD SILENT AND THE ACCUSED CAN JUST SAY WHATEVER THEY WANT.

SOMETHING RIGHT THERE JUST HAS TO CHANGE.

IT'S A LITTLE BIT NUTTY, AS THEY SAY.

ALL RIGHT, THANKS TO OUR LINE OPINION PANEL FOR THAT DISCUSSION FOR SURE.

WE'LL BE BACK HERE AT THE VIRTUAL ROUNDTABLE IN LESS THAN TEN MINUTES TO TALK ABOUT REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR GOVERNOR MARK RONCHETTI'S CALL FOR A REFERENDUM ON ABORTION.

>> Erica: WE HAVE A TENDENCY IN THE DOMINANT CULTURE TO KIND OF DO THE SINGLE-MINDED PROBLEM SOLVING.

SO, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE FLOODS HAPPENING, AND SO, OH, WE SHOULD BUILD A LEVY OR WE SHOULD BUILD A SEA WALL.

OR WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF WATER, SO WE SHOULD BUILD A BIG DAM AND BRING IN WATER FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE.

BUT THESE SINGLE-MINDED APPROACHES IGNORE THE SYSTEMS IN WHICH WATER FUNCTIONS.

>> Gene: A NEW MEXICO TEACHER IS GETTING SOME NATIONAL ATTENTION, RECENTLY RECOGNIZED BY THE SOCIETY FOR SCIENCE.

SERGIO TORRES IS A SCIENCE TEACHER AT HOT SPRINGS HIGH SCHOOL IN TRUTH OR CONSEQUENCES.

MR. TORRES IS A NEW MEXICO NATIVE AND ENCOURAGES STUDENTS' NATURAL CURIOSITY ABOUT THE WORLD TO HELP THEM BECOME BETTER RESEARCHERS AND SCIENTISTS, THE GOAL BEING TO PUT THEM IN A POSITION TO ADDRESS THE ENVIRONMENTAL CHALLENGES THEY FACE INTO THE FUTURE.

OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS SPOKE WITH MR. TORRES ABOUT HIS STUDENTS, WHAT OTHER SCIENCE TEACHERS IN NEW MEXICO CAN DO, AND HOW ALL NEW MEXICANS CAN SUPPORT THESE FUTURE DECISION-MAKERS AND LEADERS IN OUR SCHOOLS TODAY.

>> Laura: SERGIO TORRES, WELCOME TO NEW MEXICO In FOCUS.

THANKS FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

>> Sergio: THANKS FOR INVITING ME.

>> Laura: SO YOU WERE AMONG 84 U.S. TEACHERS WHO THE SOCIETY FOR SCIENCE RECENTLY RECOGNIZED AND GRANTED STIPENDS TO TO GUIDE STUDENTS IN SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH.

CAN YOU TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE GRANT AND WHAT WILL HAPPEN?

>> Sergio: YES.

SO THE SOCIETY FOR SCIENCE IN THE PUBLIC HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE THE EARLY 1900s, AND THEY HAVE SPONSORED OVER 80 ADVOCATES ACROSS THE NATION.

ONE OF THE GOALS IS TO REALLY PROMOTE SCIENCE RESEARCH.

SO AS AN ADVOCATE, WE HAVE GOALS OUTLINED FOR THIS PURPOSE TO RECRUIT AT LEAST THREE STUDENTS FOR THE YEAR, BUT ALSO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF ENTERING THEM IN SCIENTIFIC AND ENGINEERING COMPETITIONS.

AND ONCE THAT IS SUBMITTED, THEN WE FULFILL SOME OF THAT.

BUT ASIDE FROM THAT, WE HAVE A LOT OF PERKS.

WE GET SCIENCE NEWS AND SCIENCE EXPLORERS.

A LOT OF SUPPORT THROUGH PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT.

AND SUPPORT, LIKE I HAVE A MEETING SOON WITH OUR LEAD ADVOCATE TO DISCUSS HOW THINGS ARE GOING.

SO I THINK IT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY ENHANCE AND PROMOTE RESEARCH AND STEM FIELDS.

>> Laura: NICE.

SO YOU'VE SAID THAT NEW MEXICO'S NATURAL WORLD BECKONS NATURAL CURIOSITY WHAT ARE SOME OF THE PLACES AND ISSUES THAT YOUR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS EXPLORE OR WILL EXPLORE THIS YEAR?

>> Sergio: SO ONE OF THE PROJECTS THAT'S RELATED MORE COLLOQUIALLY HERE -- I'M RIGHT NEXT TO ELEPHANT BUTTE LAKE, AND ALSO MY ALMA MATER, NEW MEXICO TECH, IS ABOUT AN HOUR AWAY.

SO WE COLLABORATED WITH VARIOUS SUPPORT SYSTEMS.

NEW MEXICO TECH AND OUR ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCE CLASS LAST SEMESTER DID SOME WATER QUALITY TESTING.

SO WE LOOKED AT SOME CHEMICALS AND THE SALTWATER CONTENT.

IT SEEMS TO BE A LITTLE ELEVATED.

SO ONE OF THOSE IS TO LOOK AT WATER QUALITY AND HOW WE CAN MAYBE PROPOSE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT WE CAN GET BETTER QUALITY WATER, AS WELL AS IN THE LAKE, WE CAN THINK OF THIS BACTERIA, WHICH IS A BLUE-GREEN ALGEA THAT PRODUCES HARMFUL ALGEA BLOOMS, AND DURING STRESS, OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE PROLIFERATING OR GROWING, THEY PRODUCE THESE REALLY POTENT NEUROTOXINS AND LIVER TOXINS, AND THAT KIND OF RELATES TO SOME OF THE COLLABORATION I HAD UP NORTH IN ABIQUIU LAKE.

AT THAT RESERVOIR, THERE WAS SUCH A PROBLEM THAT WE WERE ABLE TO GET RESULTS OF THE BACTERIA AND SOME OF THE TOXINS DUE TO BACKLOGGING.

SO ONE OF THE PROJECTS IS TO LOOK AT WATER QUALITY FOR BOTH BIOTIC AND ABIOTIC FACTORS.

SO THAT'S A REAL WORLD TYPE OF PROPOSED SOLUTION WE'RE THINKING ABOUT, AS WELL AS GEOTHERMAL ENERGY PRODUCTION.

SO AT NEW MEXICO TECH BACK IN 2013, THEY HAD MAPPED OUT SOME OF THE AQUIFERS, AS WELL AS SOME OF THE HOT SPRINGS AND THERMAL CALCULATIONS TO SEE WHAT THEY LOOKED LIKE, WHICH WHICH ONES WERE ACTIVE AND SO FORTH.

SO ONE OF OUR EXCITING PROJECTS, AND PROBABLY WHAT WE'RE GOING TO EVOLVE OUR PRESENTATION TO AT THE NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR'S STEM CHALLENGE, WHICH DEALS WITH WHAT YOU JUST ASKED, IS TO SEE HOW WE CAN MAYBE LOOK AT TEMPERATURES FROM THE HOT SPRINGS AND IF IT'S NOT HOT ENOUGH TO TRANSFORM TO ELECTRIC ENERGY.

SO THOSE, WATER QUALITY AND RENEWABLE ENERGY, ARE VERY IN DEMAND, AND HOPEFULLY OUR STUDENTS CAN GATHER DATA AND COME UP WITH SOME SOLUTIONS.

>> Laura: YEAH.

NEW MEXICO FACES SO MANY DIFFERENT KINDS OF ENVIRONMENTAL CHALLENGES AND WATER CHALLENGES.

I'M CURIOUS, WHAT ARE YOUR STUDENTS MOST CURIOUS ABOUT OR CONCERNED ABOUT?

>> Sergio: SO ONE THING, WE ACTUALLY JUST CAME BACK FROM SANTA FE SEPTEMBER 2ND.

WE WERE AT THE CENTER FOR NEW MEXICO ARCHAEOLOGY, AND THAT WAS A VERY INTRIGUING AND EYE-OPENING, THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX EXPERIENCE.

SO OUR STUDENTS REALLY CAME UP WITH QUESTIONS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE FACED WITH CHALLENGES, WHETHER IT'S ENVIRONMENTAL, WARS, POPULATION, FOOD, THEN HOW ARE WE GOING TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX AND KIND OF RELATE TO THE HISTORY OF HOW HUMANS HAVE ADAPTED AND EVOLVED TO STILL BE PART OF THE HUMAN RACE AND UTILIZE, ESPECIALLY IN NEW MEXICO, SOME OF THE INDIGENOUS CULTURES THAT HAVE SURVIVED THROUGH ICE AGES.

THEY PRESENTED A GOOD COLLOQUIUM ON GREENLAND AND HOW THERE'S STILL FLUCTUATION OF COOLING AND WARMING OF EARTH.

SOME OF IT IS NATURAL, BUT THE LAST PIECE OF DATA REALLY SHOWS THAT IT SEEMS TO NOT BE COOLING DOWN, AND THAT'S OBVIOUSLY CAUSING CLIMATE CHANGE AND A LOT OF THE STORMS, GLOBAL WARMING.

SO THEY'RE INTERESTED IN ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES, KIND OF THINKING AND PREPARING ABOUT HOW THEY CAN BUILD OUR COMMUNITIES TO BE ABLE TO SUSTAIN HUMANS AS WELL AS OTHER ECOSYSTEMS, SO THAT WE CAN CONTINUE OUR JOURNEY IN THE NEXT GENERATIONS.

>> Laura: WELL, SERGIO, CONGRATULATIONS AGAIN, AND THANKS FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

>> Sergio: THANK YOU.

HAVE A GOOD AFTERNOON.

>> Laura: HI, I'M LAURA PASKUS, SENIOR PRODUCER OF OUR LAND.

YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH OUR FIELD SEGMENTS AND STUDIO INTERVIEWS, BUT I ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU KNOW ABOUT THE MIDDLE SCHOOL LESSON PLANS WE'VE DEVELOPED.

THESE ARE BASED AROUND TOPICS WE COVER RIGHT HERE ON NEW MEXICO PBS, TOPICS LIKE CLIMATE CHANGE, WATER, WILDLIFE, FIRE, EVEN ENVIRONMENTAL CAREERS.

THESE LESSON PLANS, WHICH YOU CAN FIND ON THE PBS LEARNING MEDIA SITE, MEET NATIONAL AND STATE STANDARDS.

SO HEAD TO OUR WEBSITE WHERE YOU CAN DOWNLOAD VIDEOS, STUDENT HANDOUTS, FIND ADDITIONAL DATA, AND EXPLORE ALL SORTS OF LESSON PLANS.

THESE ARE LESSON PLANS AND STUDENT ACTIVITIES THAT HELP CONNECT NEW MEXICO MIDDLE SCHOOL STUDENTS WITH THE NATURAL WORLD AROUND THEM.

FIND OUT MORE LINE.

>> Gene: IF YOU WANT TO CHECK OUT THE OUR LAND LEARNING MEDIA, ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS GO TO PBSLEARNINGMEDIA.ORG AND SEARCH 'OUR LAND.'

NOW, LET'S TURN BACK TO OUR LINE OPINION PANEL AND TALK THROUGH THE LATEST HEADLINES IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

REPUBLICAN NOMINEE MARK RONCHETTI IS CALLING FOR A REFERENDUM ON ABORTION IN A RECENT TV AD.

MR. RONCHETTI HAS ADVOCATED FOR A BAN ON ABORTIONS AFTER 15 WEEKS OF PREGNANCY WITH EXCEPTIONS FOR RAPE, INCEST AND RISK TO THE PHYSICAL HEALTH OF THE MOTHER AN ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL POLL FROM JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO SHOWED THAT 57% OF NEW MEXICANS SUPPORT FEW OR NO RESTRICTIONS ON ABORTION.

SO MERRITT, LET ME START HERE.

IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WILL RESONATE WITH VOTERS, OR IS MR. RONCHETTI AND HIS TEAM PLAYING ON A RAZOR'S EDGE HERE AND HOPING TO FALL ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF IT, AND CAN THEY?

>> Merritt: WELL, I THINK IT'S A VERY CLEVER WAY TO INSERT HIMSELF BACK INTO THE ABORTION DISCUSSION, AND I THINK THE GOVERNOR REALLY FELT THAT SHE HAD LOCKED HIM OUT.

SO I THINK IT'S A SMART PLAY, AND IT'S AN APPEALING MESSAGE.

HEY, I SHOULDN'T MAKE THAT DECISION, NO POLITICIAN SHOULD, THE VOTERS SHOULD.

NOW, THE PROBLEM IS BY MAKING IT A VOTER DECISION, IT BECOMES A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.

THEN IT'S A MATTER OF THE QUESTION.

THE QUESTION WOULD PROBABLY BE VERY DETAILED, AND IN MY VIEW, THAT'S NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, THAT'S A LEGISLATIVE QUESTION.

AND REALLY, THIS ISN'T EVEN A GOVERNOR'S QUESTION RIGHT NOW.

IT'S BECOME A GOVERNOR'S ISSUE, BUT THE WAY IT WORKS IN THIS STATE IS IT WOULD BECOME A LEGISLATIVE MATTER, AND ALL THE GOVERNOR COULD DO IS POSSIBLY VETO IT.

I MEAN, THE GOVERNOR HAS TRIED TO MAKE IT HER ISSUE WITH HER EXECUTIVE ORDER, BUT ALL THAT IS IS JUST SAYING, SHE'S GOING TO PUT SOME OF HER CAPITAL OUTLAY FOR A TAXPAYER-FUNDED ABORTION CLINIC, WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT RESOUND WELL, BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER, BECAUSE IT JUST SOUNDS LIKE AN EXECUTIVE ORDER.

SO THAT'S KIND OF DISINGENUOUS.

RONCHETTI'S MESSAGE SOUNDS VERY REASONABLE, BUT IT'S A LITTLE DISINGENUOUS.

BUT I THINK IT WAS A CLEVER PLAY TO GET HIM BACK INTO THE DISCUSSION.

I THINK A SMARTER PLAY WOULD HAVE BEEN IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE GOVERNOR CAME OUT WITH HER EXECUTIVE ORDER AND KIND OF TOOK OWNERSHIP OF THE ISSUE WAS TO PUSH BACK AT HER AND SAY, HEY, IN MY FIRST WEEK IN OFFICE, I'M GOING TO ISSUE AN EXECUTIVE ORDER AND I'M GOING TO ALLOCATE $10 MILLION FOR CYFD.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE AN INDEPENDENT OVERSIGHT BOARD, WE'RE GOING TO BUILD AN OVERNIGHT FACILITY IN BERNALILLO COUNTY SO KIDS HAVE A SAFE PLACE TO STAY, WHERE THEY DON'T NOW WHEN THEY HAVE TO BE REMOVED FROM A HOME, AND WE'RE GOING TO HIRE MORE CASEWORKERS.

IT COULD HAVE REALLY MADE AN UNSUBTLE POINT TO A LOT OF THE RIGHT TO LIFE BASE AND HAMMERED HER BACK ON CYFD.

THAT MOMENT'S PASSED, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS IS GOING TO GIVE HIM THE LEGS THAT HE WAS REALLY LOOKING FOR.

BUT I THINK IT WAS A CLEVER WAY TO INSERT HIMSELF BACK INTO THE DISCUSSION.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINT THERE.

IF YOU LET A GAP SORT OF PLAY OUT, IT GETS FILLED QUICKLY.

THAT'S A VERY GOOD POINT.

SENATOR, GOVERNOR LUJAN-GRISHAM, OF COURSE, AS MERRITT JUST MENTIONED, QUICKLY RESPONDED TO MR. RONCHETTI'S AD WITH A STATEMENT SAYING SHE'LL OPPOSE ANY ATTEMPT TO UNDUE NEW MEXICO'S PROGRESS IN PROTECTING ABORTION RIGHTS AND THAT SHE STANDS AGAINST THIS 'CLEAR ATTEMPT,' AS SHE SAID, TO BAN ABORTION.

AS MERRITT JUST SORT OF LAID OUT BRILLIANTLY THERE, DOES THIS STRENGTHEN HER POSITION ON THE ISSUE WITH VOTERS?

>> Dede: YES, I THINK SO.

I DON'T THINK RONCHETTI'S PROPOSAL WAS THAT CLEVER.

IT WAS FOLLOWING THE PLAYBOOK SET BY LINDSEY GRAHAM AND RON JOHNSON IN WISCONSIN, AND IT'S DIGGING THE HOLE DEEPER, BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE PROPOSING ADDITIONAL RESTRICTIONS ON ABORTION, HOWEVER THEY'RE ARRIVED AT, IN A STATE WHERE 57% OF THE VOTERS WANT ABORTION TO REMAIN LEGAL, THAT'S DOING DAMAGE.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE GOVERNOR HAS STATED.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER RONCHETTI UNDERSTANDS THE PROCESS.

AS MERRITT SAID, THIS WOULD BE A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER HE'S AWARE THAT THAT COULDN'T GO ON THE BALLOT FOR SEVERAL YEARS.

EVEN IF IT WAS TO PASS THE LEGISLATURE, THE GOVERNOR HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS.

AND IT JUST, TO ME, SHOWS HIS LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF THE PROCESS, AND HIS FLAILING AROUND TO TRY TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS ISSUE, WHICH HE IS LOSING SO POORLY.

HE'S TRYING TO PAINT HER AS AN EXTREMIST, BUT HE IS COMING OFF AS THE EXTREMIST.

>> Gene: MARTHA, I GOT TO LOOK AT THE NATIONAL STUFF.

I'M PARTICULARLY NOTING KANSAS.

WE HAVE HAD VOTERS GO TO THE POLLS AND SAY, NO, I DON'T THINK SO, AND WE HAVE THE NUMBERS IN NEW MEXICO, AND I'LL THROW IN ONE MORE NUMBER, OF COURSE, THAT YOU KNOW ON MR. RONCHETTI, IT SHOWS HIM SEVEN POINTS DOWN IN THE POLLING.

DOES THIS DO ANYTHING FOR HIM, HITCHING HIS WAGON TO A BIGGER NATIONAL TREND?

>> Martha: WELL, I DON'T THINK HE'S HITCHING HIS WAGON TO A NATIONAL TREND, HE'S DRAGGING A MILLSTONE.

THE VOTE IN KANSAS WAS 59% OF THE VOTERS REJECTING TAKING AWAY -- KANSAS ACTUALLY HAS CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTIONS FOR ABORTION, AND THE THING THAT WAS BEFORE THE VOTERS WAS, ARE WE GOING TO DO AWAY WITH THAT.

AND VIRTUALLY 60%, 59%, SAID NO.

SO HE'S TONE DEAF.

BUT I WANT TO ADDRESS A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS THAT HE IS DOING, AND THIS HASN'T GOT ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE GOVERNOR.

HE'S BEING VERY DISINGENUOUS WITH HIS LANGUAGE.

HE HAS PROPOSED A 15 WEEK ABORTION BAN, WHICH IS CONTRARY TO WHAT WE HAD UNDER ROE, WHICH WAS ESSENTIALLY 20 TO 24 WEEKS.

AND HE KEEPS THROWING OUT THE TERM, LATE-TERM ABORTION.

AND AT ONE POINT HE THREW OUT THE PHRASE, ABORTION UP TO THE MOMENT OF BIRTH.

FIFTEEN WEEKS IS NOT A LATE-TERM ABORTION.

THAT'S A MISNOMER.

IT'S THE WRONG KIND OF LANGUAGE TO USE.

BUT PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT DOWN IN THE WEEDS OF THIS ISSUE MIGHT NOT KNOW THAT.

AND SO HE'S TRYING TO SAY, WELL, I'M REALLY NOT AGAINST ALL ABORTIONS, JUST THESE LATE TERM ONES OF 15 WEEKS.

BUT THERE'S ANOTHER THING HERE, GENE, THAT I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO, AND THAT IS THAT NEW MEXICO ALREADY HAS, SPEAKING OF CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS, NEW MEXICO HAS AN EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT.

AND IT HAS BEEN IN FORCE SINCE 1972.

AND MANY CONSTITUTIONAL SCHOLARS WILL TELL YOU THAT A CONSTITUTIONAL EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT PROTECTS THE RIGHT TO ABORTION.

AND THAT DEBATE IS MOSTLY SETTLED.

THERE ARE A FEW OUTLIERS THAT SAY, WELL, WE'RE NOT SURE, BUT IT'S MOSTLY SETTLED.

AND I WANT TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE HISTORY ABOUT NEW MEXICO AND THIS ISSUE.

IN 1995, HHS IN NEW MEXICO RESTRICTED FUNDING FOR ABORTION UNDER THE STATE'S MEDICAID PROGRAM.

THE ACLU AND PLANNED PARENTHOOD TOOK THEM -- >> Gene: I'LL GO TO THE SENATOR HERE WHILE MARTHA'S SIGNAL COMES BACK AROUND.

SENATOR, I WANT TO GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE NATIONAL STUFF, AS WELL, KANSAS AND ALL THAT.

BUT, THERE'S AN INTERESTING SITUATION GOING ON ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHERE WE'VE GONE SO FAR -- I MEAN, THERE'S BEEN TALK IN WISCONSIN TO HOLD A BALLOT REFERENDUM TO ADD RAPE AND INCEST EXCEPTIONS TO THEIR LAW, WHICH BANS NEARLY ALL ABORTIONS.

MICHIGAN HAS A BALLOT ITEM THAT WOULD ADD THE RIGHT TO AN ABORTION TO THE STATE CONSTITUTION.

THERE'S WAYS TO PUSH BACK.

ON THIS.

WHO WINS IN THE LONG RUN?

>> Martha: WOMEN.

WOMEN WIN WHEN THEIR RIGHTS ARE PROTECTED.

AND AS I SAID, NEW MEXICO HAS AN EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT.

ALL THIS BLUSTER ABOUT US VOTING ON IT AND SO FORTH IS JUST SO MUCH HOO-HA.

THE NEW MEXICO SUPREME COURT HAS ALREADY RULED THAT ABORTION IS COVERED UNDER THE NEW MEXICO EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT.

EITHER THEY WILL HAVE TO REPEAL THAT, OR THEY'RE STUCK ON THEIR ARGUMENTS.

>> Gene: SENATOR, PLEASE DO PICK UP ON THAT AND WHAT YOU SEE GOING ON OUT THERE IN THE CONTEXT OF NEW MEXICO, AND CAN THIS MAN ACTUALLY GET SOME TRACTION WITH THIS APPROACH?

>> Dede: WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT VARIOUS SIDES TRIED TO USE THE REFERENDUM PROCESS FOR THEIR OWN END, AND AS MARTHA SAID, IN NEW MEXICO, EVEN IF THERE WAS -- AND WE DON'T HAVE A REFERENDUM PROCESS IN NEW MEXICO, WE JUST HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT PROCESS.

BUT LET'S SAY WE DID AND IT PASSED, IT MOST LIKELY WOULD BE STRUCK DOWN BY THE SUPREME COURT.

SO I THINK THAT'S THE WAY IT WORKS IN NEW MEXICO.

NOW, TAKE MICHIGAN, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE THE ANTI-ABORTION ACTIVISTS WERE TRYING LIKE HECK TO PREVENT A MEASURE THAT WOULD PROTECT LEGAL ABORTION FROM GETTING ON THE BALLOT BECAUSE THE SPACING WAS TOO TIGHT IN THE BALLOT.

THIS IS THE KIND OF ARGUMENT THEY WERE DOWN TO THERE, AND THIS IS THE KIND OF DESPERATION WITH WHICH THEY DIDN'T WANT WOMEN TO VOTE AND FOLKS TO VOTE ON THIS GIVEN WHAT HAPPENED IN KANSAS.

SO THE JUDGE THERE RULED THAT, YES, IT COULD GO ON THE BALLOT, AND SO WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN MICHIGAN.

BECAUSE SOMETIMES THESE BALLOT INITIATIVES HAVE SPILLOVER EFFECT ON OTHER RACES.

THEY MIGHT BRING OUT EITHER PRO OR CON THAT WOULD EFFECT, FOR EXAMPLE, THE GOVERNOR'S RACE IN MICHIGAN, WHICH IS VERY HEATED.

>> Gene: EXACTLY RIGHT.

MERRITT, I'VE GOT A CRAZY QUESTION FOR YOU.

WHAT HAPPENS IF MR. RONCHETTI WINS?

DO YOU REALLY SEE HIM PUSHING TO HAVE THIS ADDED TO THE BALLOT?

I'M CURIOUS.

>> Merritt: I DON'T SEE ABORTION RIGHTS CHANGING REGARDLESS OF WHO WINS THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, BECAUSE THE WAY IT COMES DOWN IN NEW MEXICO, ABORTION RIGHTS ARE DECIDED BY THE LEGISLATURE.

AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN NEW MEXICO HAS TO FIGHT AN UPHILL BATTLE TO MAKE A DENT THAT WOULD GET TO WHERE THEY COULD OVERCOME A VETO.

SO I DON'T SEE THAT HAPPENING.

ALSO, I THINK THE KANSAS VOTE WAS A BELLWETHER FOR THE RNC AND STATE REPUBLICAN PARTIES EVERYWHERE TO REALLY THINK, IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT?

BECAUSE I THINK GROUND HAS BEEN LOST FOR THE GENERAL ELECTION.

I THINK WOMEN ARE GOING TO VOTE DIFFERENTLY THAN THEY HAD EVER BEFORE.

I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE MORE WOMEN TAKING A CENTRIST, INDEPENDENT -- AND I'M TALKING REPUBLICAN WOMEN.

I THINK VOTING IS GOING TO BE VERY DIFFERENT ON THIS ISSUE.

AND SO STATE PARTIES HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL HOW THEY COUCH THIS, AND TO BE HONEST, THE NEW MEXICO REPUBLICAN PARTY DOESN'T HAVE THE VOTES ANYWHERE CLOSE IN THE LEGISLATURE TO REALLY IMPACT THIS ISSUE.

SO WERE MARK RONCHETTI TO WIN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, I DON'T THINK ANYTHING WOULD HAPPEN.

>> Gene: THANK YOU ALL FOR THAT DISCUSSION.

>> Martha: MAY I ADD A SMALL FOOTNOTE?

>> Gene: ABSOLUTELY.

>> Martha: IN KANSAS, MERRITT, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, KANSAS IS DEEP RED, BUT WOMEN CROSSED THE AISLE IN DROVES TO VOTE AGAINST THAT PROPOSITION.

AND I THINK RONCHETTI WOULD HAVE A HUGELY UPHILL BATTLE.

IT WOULD BE RIDICULOUS.

AND SO WOMEN ARE GOING TO VOTE DIFFERENTLY ON THIS REGARDLESS OF PARTY.

WE'VE ALREADY SEEN THAT.

>> Gene: I'M GLAD YOU GOT THAT IN, ABSOLUTELY.

WE'LL BE BACK TO TALK ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY THAT ALCOHOL TAXES COULD BE ON THE 2023 LEGISLATIVE AGENDA, BUT FIRST, A NEW PERSPECTIVE ON THE ENVIRONMENTAL EXTREMES WE'VE BEEN DEALING WITH THESE LAST FEW MONTHS.

IN HER NEW BOOK, 'WATER ALWAYS WINS,' AUTHOR ERICA GIES WRITES ABOUT HOW CENTRALIZED INFRASTRUCTURE AND DEVELOPMENT HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO DROUGHT AND FLOODING.

IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S NOT JUST CLIMATE CHANGE, IT'S HOW WE BUILT UP OUR WORLD AND CHANGED OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH WATER.

BUT AS SHE TELLS OUR LAURA PASKUS, THERE'S PLENTY THAT CAN STILL BE DONE.

>> Laura: ERICA GIES, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU JOINING ME TODAY.

>> Erica: THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

IT'S A REAL PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

>> Laura: SO I'VE BEEN LOOKING FORWARD TO READING YOUR BOOK SINCE I SAW ON TWITTER A LONG TIME AGO THAT YOU WERE WORKING ON IT.

IT'S TITLED: 'WATER ALWAYS WINS, THRIVING IN AN AGE OF DROUGHT AND DELUGE.'

AND I FEEL LIKE THAT TITLE IS ESPECIALLY RELEVANT FOR PEOPLE THIS SUMMER.

WHETHER YOU'RE IN PAKISTAN OR SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO, WE'RE ALL GRAPPLING WITH THESE SORTS OF BIG FLUCTUATIONS.

SO I'M VERY EXCITED TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THIS BOOK.

IN THE BOOK, YOU WRITE ABOUT WHAT YOU CALL THE SLOW WATER MOVEMENT.

WHAT IS THAT?

>> Erica: ALL AROUND THE WORLD, THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT I CALL WATER DETECTIVES, AND THESE ARE HYDROLOGISTS, ECOLOGISTS, LANDSCAPE ARCHITECTS, URBAN PLANNERS, HISTORICAL ECOLOGISTS, AND THEY ARE THINKING ABOUT WATER IN A BIT OF A DIFFERENT WAY, AND THEY'RE ASKING, WHAT DOES WATER WANT?

BASICALLY, WHAT THEY HAVE DETERMINED IS THAT WHAT WATER WANTS IS A RETURN OF ITS SLOW PHASES.

SO THESE ARE WETLAND, FLOOD PLAINS, HIGH ALTITUDE FORESTS.

AND I DON'T THINK WE REALLY REALIZE THE CUMULATIVE IMPACT WE'VE HAD.

WE'VE ACTUALLY FILLED IN OR DRAINED 87% OF THE WORLD'S WETLANDS, AND WE'VE INTERVENED ON TWO-THIRDS OF THE WORLD'S LARGEST RIVERS.

THE AREA OF LAND COVERED BY PAVEMENT IN OUR CITIES HAS DOUBLED JUST SINCE 1992.

SO IN ALL OF THESE WAYS, OUR DEVELOPMENT IS PREVENTING WATER FROM ENJOYING THE SLOW PHASES WHERE IT INTERACTS WITH THE LAND, IT SEEPS UNDERGROUND, AND THAT DOES MANY THINGS.

IT ABSORBS FLOODS.

IT STORES WATER LOCALLY FOR LATER.

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO SUPPORT BIODIVERSITY, OTHER FORMS OF LIFE, AND THERE'S ALSO A CARBON STORAGE COMPONENT.

SO SLOW WATER PROJECTS ARE WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE WORKING ON, AND BASICALLY, THEY INVOLVE TRYING TO RETURN THESE PHASES TO SOME EXTENT TO WATER.

AND THEY ARE TYPICALLY DISTRIBUTED ACROSS THE LANDSCAPE THROUGHOUT THE WATERSHED AS OPPOSED TO OUR KIND OF CENTRALIZED WATER INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE'VE COME TO KNOW.

THEY WORK WITH WATER IN NATURAL CYCLES RATHER THAN TRYING TO CONTROL THEM.

AND THERE'S OFTEN A COMMUNITY PHASING ASPECT.

IN SOME PLACES, THE COMMUNITY IS ACTUALLY ACTIVELY MANAGING THE WATER AND THE NATURAL SYSTEM IN SOME WAY.

IN OTHER PLACES, LIKE PARTS OF THE U.S., MAYBE THERE'S MORE OF AN EDUCATIONAL COMPONENT.

LIKE THERE ARE PLACES IN ARIZONA WHERE WATER IS RECHARGED AND THAT BECOMES SORT OF A -- RECHARGE MEANS PUTTING IT ON THE LAND SO IT CAN MOVE UNDERGROUND.

AND THOSE TEND TO BE ATTRACTANTS FOR WILDLIFE AND HUMAN PEOPLE TO RECREATE.

SO MAYBE THERE ARE SIGNS THAT EXPLAIN TO THE COMMUNITY WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE.

SO THERE ARE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT.

>> Laura: SO WHETHER IT'S SORT OF THE CENTRALIZED INFRASTRUCTURE OR PAVING OVER OF WETLANDS, DEVELOPMENT OF WETLANDS, YOU EXPLAIN IN THE BOOK THAT THIS 'US FIRST' STANCE HASN'T DONE HUMANITY ANY FAVORS, AND HOW IN OUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH WATER, PRIVILEGING OURSELVES REALLY ISN'T WORKING.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT?

>> Erica: WE HAVE A TENDENCY IN THE DOMINANT CULTURE TO KIND OF DO THE SINGLE-MINDED PROBLEM SOLVING.

SO, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE FLOODS HAPPENING, SO, OH, WE SHOULD BUILD A LEVY OR WE SHOULD BUILD A SEA WALL.

OR WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF WATER, SO WE SHOULD BUILD A BIG DAM AND BRING IN WATER FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE.

BUT THESE SINGLE-MINDED APPROACHES IGNORE THE SYSTEMS IN WHICH WATER FUNCTIONS, THE ECOSYSTEMS.

AND WATER HAS RELATIONSHIPS WITH SOIL AND ROCK, MICROBES, BEAVERS, HUMANS, AND IF WE IGNORE THE SYSTEMS, THEN WE CREATE ALL KINDS OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES THAT WE'RE BEGINNING TO SEE.

AND THAT'S ONE OF THE MAIN MESSAGES OF THIS BOOK.

YES, CLIMATE CHANGE IS CAUSING WATER EXTREMES, IT'S CAUSING THESE REALLY INTENSE RAINSTORMS AND REALLY LONG INTENSE DROUGHTS, SO I THINK IT'S GREAT THAT THAT MESSAGE IS GETTING OUT TO THE PUBLIC.

BUT ONE THING THAT I'M NOT SEEING IS THAT, IN FACT, OUR DEVELOPMENT CHOICES HAVE A LOT TO DO WITH THE DISASTERS THAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING FROM THESE WATER EXTREMES.

SO, YOU KNOW, IN A WAY THAT'S GOOD NEWS, BECAUSE IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO CONDUCT OUR DEVELOPMENT DIFFERENTLY, TO BETTER WORK WITH WATER TO REDUCE THE IMPACTS ON US.

>> Laura: YEAH.

YOU WRITE ABOUT HOW THE DOMINANT CULTURE HAS MOVED AWAY SO MUCH FROM OBSERVATIONS OF WATER AND UNDERSTANDING HOW WATER WORKS AND MOVES AND WHAT IT WANTS.

I'M CURIOUS WHY YOU THINK THAT HAPPENED.

LIKE, HOW QUICKLY DID WE MOVE AWAY FROM OBSERVING WATER AND LIVING WITH IT TOWARD WHAT WE DO NOW?

>> Erica: I THINK THERE'S REALLY A COLONIAL FOOTPRINT IN THAT, ACTUALLY, BECAUSE IN PLACES WHERE PEOPLE HAVE LONG LIVED CLOSE TO THE LAND AND RELIED UPON IT FOR EVERYTHING, THEY REALLY HAD TO UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKED AND HOW TO MANAGE IT SUSTAINABLY AND HOW TO LIVE WITHIN THE MEANS OF WHAT THAT LANDSCAPE COULD PROVIDE.

BUT WITH COLONIALISM, YOU HAD EUROPEANS, PRIMARILY, GOING TO PLACES THAT WERE NEW TO THEM AND THEN TRYING TO ASSERT THEIR WAY OF DOING THINGS ON TOP OF THE LOCAL LANDSCAPE WITHOUT REALLY UNDERSTANDING IT.

AND THERE WAS DEFINITELY A KIND OF OTHERING OF CERTAINLY THE PEOPLE THEY ENCOUNTERED THERE, BUT ALSO, THE NATURAL SYSTEMS.

IT WAS KIND OF AN US AGAINST THEM IDEA.

AND, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE ROOTS OF THIS THAT GO BACK FARTHER TO THE ENLIGHTENMENT AND THE IDEA OF THE GREAT CHAIN OF BEING, WHICH PRIORITIZES HUMANS ABOVE OTHER FORMS OF LIFE, AND EVEN GOING BACK TO THE BOOK OF GENESIS WITH THE SEPARATION OF HUMANS FROM NATURE, WHICH ISN'T TO -- YOU KNOW, THAT'S IMPORTANT JUST BECAUSE THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN TRADITION IS WHAT THE COLONIZERS KIND OF IMPORTED AROUND THE WORLD.

AND THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT -- I MEAN, THERE ARE CHRISTIANS WHO BELIEVE IN CREATION CARE.

SO IT'S JUST KIND OF THE TRADITION OF THAT AND HOW IT HAS BEEN INTERPRETED IN THE DOMINANT CULTURE.

>> Laura: YEAH, WE CERTAINLY SEE THAT HERE IN NEW MEXICO WITH OUR WATER INFRASTRUCTURE AND CERTAINLY OUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH WATER.

SO I FEEL LIKE THIS IS A LITTLE BIT OF A HARD TOPIC TO TALK ABOUT, NEVER MIND PLAN FOR ON A LARGE SCALE, BUT YOU WRITE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW WE MAY NEED TO RETREAT FROM SOME ARID PLACES AS THEY BECOME EVEN DRIER.

DO YOU FEEL LIKE WE, AS A CULTURE, AS A OCIETY, HAVE THE CAPACITY FOR THIS SORT OF ADAPTATION BEFORE IT REACHES, LIKE, A CRISIS MODE?

>> Erica: THAT IS A REALLY HARD QUESTION.

I'D LIKE TO THINK WE DO.

THERE'S NOT A LOT OF EVIDENCE THAT WE ARE VERY GOOD AT THAT.

WE TEND TO BE QUITE REACTIVE.

BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE WRITING ABOUT THIS.

THERE'S A RESEARCHER AT THE UNIVERSITY OF DELAWARE NAMED A.R.

SIDERS WHO'S DONE WORK ON MANAGED RETREAT.

SHE'S LOOKING MORE AT COASTAL RETREAT AND SEA LEVEL RISE, BUT IT CAN APPLY ANYWHERE THERE ARE WATER ISSUES.

I THINK IN THE WEST, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME ATTEMPTS TO PREDICATE DEVELOPMENT UPON WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS WATER AVAILABLE FOR THAT NEW DEVELOPMENT.

SO CALIFORNIA HAS HAD A LAW LIKE THAT SINCE 2003, BUT THERE ARE PRETTY EASY LOOPHOLES AROUND THAT, SO IT HASN'T ACTUALLY FUNCTIONED AS INTENDED.

I DO THINK THAT THERE MAY BE SORT OF A NATURAL MIGRATION TO MORE WATER RICH AREAS AS THESE WATER INTENSITIES INCREASE, OR WATER SCARCITY INCREASES.

HOWEVER, IN BOTH THE SOUTHWEST AND CALIFORNIA, THE VAST MAJORITY OF WATER GOES TO AGRICULTURE, AND SOME OF THAT AGRICULTURE IS HISTORIC.

YOU KNOW, GROWING ALFALFA OR COTTON WITH VAST QUANTITIES OF WATER IN THE DESERT.

AND PEOPLE HAVE GOTTEN USED TO THAT, BUT THAT ISN'T GOING TO BE TENABLE GOING FORWARD.

SO I WOULDN'T SAY, YOU KNOW, LOTS OF PEOPLE NEED TO LEAVE THE SOUTHWEST OR SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, WE JUST NEED TO TAKE A SERIOUS LOOK AT HOW WE HAVE BEEN ALLOCATING OUR WATER AND PROBABLY CHANGE THAT.

OF COURSE, GROWING FOOD IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULD GET RID OF THAT.

BUT THERE ARE MANY, MANY THINGS WE CAN DO TO SAVE A LOT OF WATER THAT HAVE SO FAR BEEN POLITICALLY UNTENABLE, AND WE NEED TO START HAVING THAT VERY SERIOUS CONVERSATION.

>> Laura: ERICA GIES, I LOVED YOUR BOOK.

I THINK LOTS OF PEOPLE IN OUR AUDIENCE WILL LOVE IT, AS WELL.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH ME TODAY.

>> Erica: THANKS FOR HAVING ME, IT'S BEEN SO FUN.

>> Gene: IF YOU'D LIKE TO SEE LAURA'S FULL INTERVIEW, WATCH IT ON THE 'OUR LAND' YOUTUBE PAGE.

NOW, WELCOME BACK TO THE LINE PANEL FOR OUR FINAL TOPIC.

STATE LAWMAKERS SAY THEY ARE CONSIDERING RAISING TAXES ON ALCOHOL IN THE UPCOMING SESSION.

IN AN UPDATE TO THEIR RECENT SERIES, 'BLIND DRUNK,' NEW MEXICO IN DEPTH IS REPORTING SEVERAL INFLUENTIAL STATE LAWMAKERS ARE OPEN TO THE IDEA OF RAISING ALCOHOL TAXES.

AMONG THEM, REP. PATTY LUNDSTROM AND STATE SENATOR GEORGE MUÑOZ OF GALLUP, AND SENATE PRESIDENT PRO TEM MIMI STEWART.

NOW, RAISING ALCOHOL TAXES HAVE BEEN PROVEN TO LOWER ALCOHOL-RELATED DEATHS, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO VOTERS, MANY MAY SAY, WELL, THAT WON'T IMPACT ME, BUT HIGHER PRICES WILL.

NOW, SENATOR, I WANT TO START WITH YOU ON THIS.

WILL LAWMAKERS STAND BEHIND THIS IF THERE'S ANY RESISTANCE FROM VOTERS, OR ARE THE NUMBERS JUST THAT CLEAR WHEN IT COMES TO TAXES AND ALCOHOL USE THAT IT'S JUST GOING TO WIN THE DAY THERE?

WHAT'S YOUR SENSE OF IT EARLY ON HERE?

>> Dede: WELL, I THINK THE POLLING DATA SHOWS THAT VOTERS DO SUPPORT INCREASED TAXES ON ALCOHOL, AND IN McKINLEY COUNTY THEY HAVE ALREADY VOTED WITH THEIR FEET AND THERE IS A LOCAL OPTION TAX ON ALCOHOL WHICH GOES DIRECTLY INTO DWI COUNSELS AND DRUG PREVENTION PROGRAMS THERE WHERE THEY HAVE A VERY BIG PROBLEM.

BUT IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY TOUGH ROAD IN THE NEW MEXICO LEGISLATURE, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TOUGH OR SOFT THE SUPPORT IS FROM THE FINANCE CHAIRS COMING FROM GALLUP.

AND I THINK, THOUGH, WE ARE LONG OVERDUE FOR A REFORM.

TAXES ON ALCOHOL ARE CHEAP, AND BUYING A DRINK OF BEER, WINE, OR A MIXED DRINK IS CHEAPER NOW THAN IT'S EVER BEEN WHEN IT COMES TO THE TAXES.

BUT THE ENTRENCHED INTERESTS IN THE LEGISLATURE ARE SEVERE, AND CISCO McSORLEY FOUND THAT OUT IN 2017.

THERE HAVE BEEN COUNTLESS ATTEMPTS TO DO THIS IN THE PAST, NONE OF THEM REALLY SUCCESSFUL SINCE THE CRISIS IN THE EARLY 1990s WITH NADINE MILFORD AND THAT HORRIFIC CRASH.

THAT'S WHEN WE HAD A BIG WAVE OF REFORM WHERE THE BLOOD ALCOHOL LEVEL WAS SET AT .08, AND WHEN TAXES WERE RAISED AT THAT TIME, A VERY LITTLE BIT, AND THEY SET A REAL MINEFIELD, BECAUSE WHEN THEY SET THE TAX RATE, IT WAS BASED NOT ON THE PRICE, BUT ON THE VOLUME OF THE DRINK, WHICH MEANT THAT, YOU KNOW, IT REALLY HASN'T RISEN SINCE 1994, DESPITE THE INFLATIONARY COSTS THAT HAVE HAPPENED.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THE ALCOHOL INDUSTRY, ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL IN THE STATE.

WE TALK A LOT ABOUT OIL AND GAS, BUT REMEMBER, THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY, THE TOURISM INDUSTRY, THE CONVENIENCE STORE INDUSTRY, WHICH INCIDENTALLY INCLUDES A LOT OF THE OIL COMPANIES, LIKE MARATHON AND BOLIN, THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE THERE TO BAR THE DOOR.

AND ALSO, THE WARM AND FUZZIER INDUSTRIES, THE WINERIES, THE BREWERIES, THINGS THAT WE ARE COUNTING ON TO INCREASE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, THEY'RE THERE TO BAR THE DOOR.

SO IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT THING.

A VERY WORTHY THING, THOUGH, BECAUSE NEW MEXICO TAXPAYERS ARE ALREADY PAYING.

>> Gene: THAT'S BRILLIANTLY LAID OUT, THE NATURE OF THE WALL THAT MUST BE HURDLED.

AND MARTHA, INTERESTINGLY ONE ANECDOTE HERE, IF WE WERE TO RAISE TAXES, THAT WOULD MEAN MORE STATE REVENUE, OF COURSE.

ABOUT HALF OF THE MONEY GENERATED FROM ALCOHOL TAXES GOES TOWARDS THE STATE'S GENERAL FUND.

WHERE SHOULD WE USE THE NEW MONEY IF TAXES ARE RAISED?

LIKE THE SENATOR JUST MENTIONED, FOR HELP WITH FOLKS WHO ARE STRUGGLING WITH ALCOHOL, OR JUST SOME SLUSH FUND?

WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO HANDLE THIS REVENUE?

>> Martha: WELL, DEDE MAY DISAGREE, BUT MAYBE THE GENERAL FUND IS SORT OF A SLUSH FUND.

I DO THINK THAT IT SHOULD GO INTO ALCOHOL REHAB.

WE DO HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM IN THE STATE.

AND BY THE WAY, THE RESEARCH SHOWS THAT IT'S NOT ALL GALLUP, IT'S NOT ALL OUR NATIVE AMERICAN POPULATION.

IT IS EVERYBODY.

>> Gene: YES, THANK YOU.

>> Martha: AND RIGHT NOW, THE STRUCTURE IS, AS DEDE SAID, IT'S TAXED BY VOLUME AND NOT BY THE RETAIL PRICE.

THAT MAKES IT REGRESSIVE, A VERY REGRESSIVE TAX, AND I THINK THAT COULD BE THE FIRST THING.

THIS LEGISLATURE COULD SAY, WELL, WE'RE REALLY NOT RAISING THE TAX, WE'RE JUST SHIFTING IT A BIT, AND WE CAN SHIFT IT OVER TO THE RETAIL PRICE.

BUT I THINK THAT THE MONEY PROBABLY SHOULD NOT GO INTO THE GENERAL FUND.

WE KNOW WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM, ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS IN THE UNITED STATES, SO THE TAX OUGHT TO GO TO REMEDY THAT PROBLEM.

LET ME SAY A LITTLE BIT ELSE ABOUT THAT, THOUGH.

OUR ALCOHOL DRUNK LIMIT, IF YOU WILL, TO USE A COLLOQUIAL TERM, IS .08.

THAT'S THE LEGAL LIMIT IN THE STATE.

WE NEED TO LOWER THAT.

IN MOST STATES, IT'S .05.

AND THAT WAY, I THINK WE WOULD HAVE PEOPLE -- SOME PEOPLE WOULD BE A LOT MORE CAREFUL ABOUT HOW MUCH THEY DRINK IN THE FIRST PLACE.

>> Gene: MERRITT, I HAVE A QUOTE HERE FROM JASON HARPER: 'AS A FISCAL CONSERVATIVE, I CAN ACCEPT AND SUPPORT ADDITIONAL TAXATION THAT ADDRESSES THAT SOCIAL ILL, BUT WHERE I CROSS THE LINE IS NOW LET'S USE THE TAX CODE TO DISCOURAGE PEOPLE FROM USING THAT PRODUCT.'

HAS HE JUST MISSED THE POINT HERE?

I MEAN, THAT'S THE POINT, IS DISCOURAGE PEOPLE FROM USING THE PRODUCT OVERALL.

>> Merritt: WELL, I DON'T LIKE SIN TAXES, EITHER.

AND THAT SEEMS TO BE THE ONLY FIX ANYBODY HAS, IS LET'S JUST RAISE TAXES.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE DONE THIS WITH CIGARETTES, AND PEOPLE STILL SMOKE.

I THINK THE ONLY WAY A TAX INCREASE IS JUSTIFIED IS ALL THE MONEY HAS TO GO INTO BEHAVIORAL HEALTH.

AND WE ALSO, THOUGH, HAVE TO LOOK AT SEPARATE LEGISLATION AND CREATE NEW PROGRAMS TO ADDRESS OUR BEHAVIORAL HEALTH AND REHAB.

WE ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT PUBLIC INTOXICATION IN ADDITION TO DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED, DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE.

THAT'S ONLY PART OF IT.

AND THAT'S A HUGE PROBLEM WE SEE WITH THE HOMELESS EXPLOSION IN OUR URBAN AREAS IN OUR STATE, IT'S NOT JUST DRUGS, IT'S ALCOHOL.

AND TREATMENT AND INTERVENTION AND PUBLIC INTOXICATION, WE NEED TO NOT JUST OFFER TREATMENT AND GET PEOPLE INTO TREATMENT, WE ALSO NEED TO, YOU KNOW, UPHOLD SOME OF OUR ANTI-VAGRANCY OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, OUR LAWS THAT YOU CAN'T BE IN THE PARK AFTER TEN O'CLOCK.

YOU HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, BE OUT OF PUBLIC.

YOU SHOULDN'T BE PUBLICLY INTOXICATED.

WE HAVE TO ENFORCE OUR LAWS.

>> Gene: MERRITT, I'VE GOT A QUESTION FOR YOU, JUST BECAUSE WE'RE A LITTLE CRUNCHY ON TIME HERE, AND HOPEFULLY THE SENATOR CAN GET IN ON THIS, TOO.

BUT THE PUBLIC IS LOOKING TO THE LEGISLATURE FOR SOME GUIDANCE ON THIS, BUT ALCOHOL IS JUST -- THE PLACE IS JUST BESOTTED WITH ALCOHOL SOMETIMES DURING THE SESSION.

I MEAN, ARE THESE THE RIGHT PEOPLE TO BE MAKING THESE DECISIONS?

>> Merritt: WELL, SENATOR IVEY-SOTO, CERTAINLY, WHEN QUESTIONED -- IT'S COME UP WITH HIS ACCUSERS THAT HE KEEPS A WINE REFRIGERATOR IN HIS SENATE OFFICE, AND WHEN QUESTIONED ABOUT IT, HE ADMITTED IN AN INTERVIEW, HE THINKS IT BRINGS A MORE COLLEGIAL TONE TO HIS MEETINGS.

I WOULD PREFER THAT OUR LEGISLATORS NOT BE DRINKING WHILE THEY SET POLICY.

>> Gene: SENATOR, CAN I GET YOUR THOUGHT ON THAT, TOO?

>> Dede: YES, I THINK THAT'S OBVIOUS.

THAT'S REALLY OBVIOUS.

BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A LIQUOR LOBBY THAT SUPPLIES FREE LIQUOR TO THE LEGISLATORS, IT'S HARD TO TURN DOWN.

AND THE RESULT IS THAT WE'RE PAYING, US TAXPAYERS ARE PAYING THE BILL EVEN MORE SO WITH THE RELUCTANCE TO ADDRESS BEHAVIORAL HEALTH PROBLEMS AND SPEND MONEY ON THOSE.

I MEAN, THE WHOLE THING ABOUT THIS ISSUE -- AND I GET TIRED OF PEOPLE SAYING THAT THEY'RE OPPOSED TO SIN TAXES.

SIN TAXES WORK.

THE RATE OF SMOKING AMONGST ADOLESCENTS HAS GONE DOWN WHEN WE HAVE RAISED THE PRICE OF -- >> Merritt: WELL, IT'S ALSO BANNED.

YOU CAN'T SMOKE IF YOU'RE UNDER 18.

YOU CAN'T BUY THEM.

THAT'S MORE THAN A SIN TAX.

>> Dede: YES, BUT AS YOU SAID, THAT HAS NOT BEEN ENFORCED.

AND MANY PARENTS CONDONE THEIR CHILDREN'S SMOKING.

BUT THE POINT IS, TAXPAYERS ARE ALREADY PAYING THE BILL FOR THE DAMAGES OF ALCOHOL.

NOT JUST IN TERMS OF TRAFFIC FATALITIES, BUT IN TERMS OF CIRRHOSIS OF THE LIVER AMONG MEDICAID PATIENTS.

WHO'S PAYING FOR THAT?

WE'RE PAYING FOR THAT.

>> Gene: THAT'S RIGHT.

I'VE GOT TO STOP YOU THERE, SENATOR.

SORRY, WE'RE JUST A LITTLE SHORT ON TIME.

THAT SERIES, 'BLIND DRUNK,' FROM NEW MEXICO IN DEPTH, I ENCOURAGE FOLKS TO READ IT.

IT'S SEVEN PARTS.

I MEAN, THIS IS AS IN-DEPTH AS YOU CAN POSSIBLY GET.

ALL RIGHT, THANKS AGAIN TO THE LINE PANEL.

NOW, LAST MONTH WE HOSTED A PANEL DISCUSSION ABOUT OUR STATE'S EXTRAORDINARY ALCOHOL RELATED DEATH RATE, AS I JUST MENTIONED, BUT DURING THAT DISCUSSION, JOURNALIST TED ALCORN, TWO DOCTORS, AND STATE REPRESENTATIVE JOANNE FERRARY HIGHLIGHTED THE PROVEN EFFECTIVENESS OF HIGHER ALCOHOL TAXES.

YOU CAN WATCH THAT ENTIRE DISCUSSION ONLINE ON OUR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS YOUTUBE PAGE, OR LISTEN BACK ON THE AUGUST 22nd EPISODE OF NEW MEXICO In FOCUS, THE PODCAST.

NOW, AS ALWAYS, BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANY OF THE TOPICS THE LINE COVERED ON OUR FACEBOOK, TWITTER, OR INSTAGRAM PAGES.

AND CATCH ANY EPISODES YOU MAY HAVE MISSED ON THE PBS VIDEO APP OR YOUR ROKU OR SMART TV.

>> Gene: FALL EQUINOX HAS ARRIVED, AND WITH THE CHANGING OF THE SEASONS, SO TO THE POSSIBILITY TO CHANGE THE HABITS FORMED IN A HOT, HOT SUMMER.

WE'VE BEEN CRANKY AROUND HERE, AND NOT WITHOUT GOOD REASON.

HEAT, DROUGHT AND THE LIKE HAVE STRESSED US, LET ALONE THE LINGERING ISSUE OF COVID.

FALL EQUINOX IS THE PERFECTLY TIMED OPPORTUNITY TO SETTLE OUR HEADS AND GET OUR OUTLOOK RE-CALIBRATED.

ONE OF THE WAYS TO DO THAT IS TO TAKE A LONG, QUIET MOMENT AND CELEBRATE YOUR OWN PERSONAL HARVEST.

CELEBRATE WHATEVER YOU LAUNCHED THIS YEAR, AND BRING IT TO FRUITION.

IT'S HARD.

THERE'S SOMETHING NEAR A STATE OF GRACE THAT OCCURS WHEN YOU HAVE A WORK IN PROGRESS ON YOUR HANDS.

BASICALLY, IT'S IMPORTANT TO CELEBRATE OURSELVES AND OUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

SO GET OUT IN NATURE THIS WEEKEND.

FEEL THE CHANGE OF SEASONS HAPPENING AROUND YOU AND BREATHE IN BEING IN THE FLOW OF IT.

FOR EVERYTHING THERE IS A SEASON, EVEN FOR YOU.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND FOR STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK, IN FOCUS.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.