>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Lou: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, HEADLINE NEWS.

THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL IS IN TURMOIL AFTER ITS TOP EDITOR IS LOCKED UP ON A PETTY MISDEMEANOR SHOPLIFTING CHARGE.

A JOURNALISM PROFESSOR AND A LEGAL EXPERT TELL US WHAT'S NEXT FOR THE NEWSPAPER.

>> Montoya: AS MUCH AS THE COMMUNITY TRIES TO WORK TOGETHER, THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT NO MATTER HOW HARD THEY WORK THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO SUSTAIN WITHOUT SHIFTING THAT WEALTH DIVIDE.

>> Lou: AND, INSIGHT ON A PILOT PROGRAM THAT WOULD CHANGE THE WAY THE STATE INVESTS IN FUTURE GENERATIONS.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK, I'M SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DiVIZIO.

THIS YEAR, 15 CHILDREN ACROSS FIVE NEW MEXICO COUNTIES WERE AWARDED BABY BONDS.

THOSE ARE $6,000 DEPOSITS THAT ARE MANAGED AND INVESTED BEFORE THE BOND HOLDER CAN WITHDRAW THE MONEY WHEN THEY TURN 18.

IN LESS THAN 20 MINUTES, STATE TREASURER LAURA MONTOYA TELLS CORRESPONDENT RUSSELL CONTRERAS HOW EXPANDING THIS PILOT PROGRAM WOULD HELP THE STATE INVEST IN THE NEXT GENERATION.

NOW THIS SPRING, PETE'S PLACE IN SANTA FE INTRODUCED A MOBILE HYGIENE UNIT CALLED SHOWERS TO GO.

THE PROGRAM WAS YEARS IN THE MAKING.

AND IN JUST MONTHS THE PROJECT HAS HELPED HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE.

BUT NOT ONLY WITH A FREE SHOWER.

COMING UP IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE SHOW, PROJECT MANAGER JAMES BUTLER EXPLAINS HOW THE PROGRAM HAS BUILT TRUST AND OPENED DOORS FOR PEOPLE TO RECEIVE FURTHER CARE.

BUT FIRST, WE SET OUR ATTENTION TO A STORY AT THE STATE'S LARGEST NEWSPAPER, THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL.

LATE LAST MONTH, EXECUTIVE EDITOR PATRICK ETHRIDGE PLEADED GUILTY TO A SHOPLIFTING CHARGE HE PICKED UP ON AUGUST 24th AT A RIO RANCHO WALMART.

ETHRIDGE WAS CHARGED WITH A PETTY MISDEMEANOR AND LATER SENTENCED TO 90 DAYS IN JAIL AFTER PLEADING GUILTY.

MUNICIPAL COURT JUDGE MICHAEL GIBSON SUSPENDED ALL BUT TEN DAYS OF THE SENTENCE.

AND ETHRIDGE WAS LOCKED UP LAST WEEK.

ACCORDING TO THE CRIMINAL COMPLAINT, WALMART EMPLOYEES CALLED RIO RANCHO POLICE ABOUT A DISORDERLY FAMILY IN THE STORE.

SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS RECORDED TWO BOYS KNOCKING OVER DISPLAYS AND OPENING UNPURCHASED ENERGY DRINKS.

THOSE BOYS WERE IDENTIFIED AS ETHRIDGE'S SONS.

WHILE THAT WAS HAPPENING, POLICE SAY VIDEO SHOWED ETHRIDGE AT SELF-CHECKOUT SKIP SCANNING ITEMS.

THAT'S WHEN SOMEONE PAYS FOR SOME PRODUCTS WITHOUT SCANNING OTHERS.

ALL AND ALL, INCLUDING THE ENERGY DRINKS, THE COMPLAINT TALLIES ETHRIDGE'S OUTSTANDING TAB AT ABOUT $104.

ETHRIDGE'S ATTORNEY TELLS US HIS CLIENT OFFERED TO PAY FOR THE ITEMS HE ALLEGEDLY HADN'T SCANNED BUT THE STORE DECLINED.

THE JOURNAL BROKE THE NEWS OF ITS EDITOR'S ARREST AND SENTENCING ON SEPTEMBER 27th, AN ENTIRE MONTH AFTER THE CRIMINAL COMPLAINT WAS FILED.

WE'VE SINCE LEARNED THAT JOURNAL PUBLISHER BILL LANG DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE SITUATION UNTIL AFTER ETHRIDGE WAS LOCKED UP.

LANG PUBLISHED A STATEMENT SAYING HIS EDITOR HAD BEEN PLACED ON A MANDATORY LEAVE OF ABSENCE AND ADDED, QUOTE, WE WERE SHOCKED TO LEARN, END QUOTE, ABOUT THE CHARGES.

NOW AS THE PAPER MOVES FORWARD WITHOUT ITS EXECUTIVE EDITOR, WE WANTED TO PARSE THROUGH SOME OF THE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE JOURNAL THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN SIMMERING FOR SOMETIME.

TO UNPACK THIS, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR SITS DOWN WITH JOURNALIST AND UNM PROFESSOR GWYNETH DOLAND, AND ALBUQUERQUE-BASED CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER KELLY GOLIGHTLEY.

HERE'S JEFF.

>> Jeff: THANK YOU, LOU.

I WANT TO BEGIN WITH A DISCLOSURE.

I WAS THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE REPORTER FOR THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL FROM 2003 TO 2013.

IT WAS MY FIRST AND LONGEST LIVED HOME IN PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISM.

IN THE YEARS SINCE, I HAVE BEEN PUBLICLY CRITICAL AND VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THE NEWSPAPER AND MORE SPECIFICALLY THE FOLKS WHO WORK THERE.

FOR THOSE AND OTHER REASONS, THIS WILL BE A DIFFICULT CONVERSATION.

WE AREN'T HERE TO DUNK ON ANYONE, YOU CAN FIND PLENTY OF THAT ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND BLOG SITES.

INSTEAD, WE FEEL LIKE THIS SITUATION WITH PATRICK ETHRIDGE EXPOSES YET ANOTHER LAYER OF OUR LOCAL NEWS CRISIS.

THE STATE'S LARGEST NEWS ORGANIZATION WAS ALREADY TEETERING, WITH AN ONGOING STAFF EXODUS, A TURN AWAY FROM HARD NEWS AND OTHER ISSUES.

NOW, WE ARE HERE AT AN INFLECTION POINT.

AND I THINK THAT'S WORTH TALKING ABOUT.

GWYNETH DOLAND, KELLY GOLIGHTLEY, WELCOME TO NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

AND THANK YOU BOTH FOR DOING THIS.

>> Doland: THANK YOU.

>> Jeff: COOL, GWYNETH, OUR VIEWERS WILL RECOGNIZE YOU AS THE POLITICS CORRESPONDENT FOR THIS SHOW.

YOU ARE ALSO A PROFESSOR OF PRACTICE IN THE UNM COMMUNICATION JOURNALISM DEPARTMENT AND THIS SEMESTER YOU'RE TEACHING MEDIA ETHICS.

SO, LET'S START THERE.

WHAT IS THE ETHICAL CONUNDRUM THAT HIS HAS CREATED FOR BILL LANG, THE JOURNAL'S OWNER AND PUBLISHER?

>> Doland: YEAH, I THINK THIS IS A DIFFICULT ETHICAL CONUNDRUM.

AND LOOK, I'M NO ANGEL.

I'M NOT A PERFECT PERSON.

BUT I THINK ABOUT ETHICS AND I TRAIN YOUNG PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT THAT IN TERMS OF THEIR PROFESSIONAL LIVES.

FOR ME, THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE SHOPLIFTING, RIGHT?

I THINK WE CAN PROBABLY EASILY COME TO SOME SORT OF UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THIS HAPPENED, MAYBE IT WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING, WHATEVER.

THE ISSUE HERE IS ABOUT TRUST AND TRUTH AND LEADERSHIP.

YOU KNOW, PUT YOURSELF IN THE PUBLISHER'S SHOES HERE, RIGHT?

FROM THIS STATEMENT THAT WE SAW PUBLISHED IN HIS OWN NEWSPAPER, IT APPEARS THAT HE WAS UNAWARE THAT HIS EDITOR OF THE STATE'S LARGEST NEWSPAPER HAD BEEN PICKED UP FOR SHOPLIFTING, AND GIVEN A COURT SUMMONS.

WAS UNAWARE OF ANY OF THIS, IT SEEMS, UNTIL THAT EDITOR WAS IN JAIL.

FORCING THE PUBLISHER TO MAKE AN EXTREMELY EMBARRASSING STATEMENT FOR COVERAGE IN HIS OWN PAPER.

YOU KNOW, MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT FEELS LIKE A VIOLATION OF TRUST, RIGHT?

WHY WOULD YOU NOT COME TELL ME THIS THING, RIGHT?

>> Jeff: YOU MEAN TRUST BETWEEN THE PUBLISHER AND EDITOR?

>> Doland: BETWEEN EMPLOYER AND EMPLOYEE.

AND THIS IS THE KIND OF SITUATION YOU CAN SEE IN ANY INDUSTRY, RIGHT?

WHY WOULDN'T YOU TELL ME THAT THIS THING HAPPENED.

BUT IT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAN THAT BECAUSE OUR WHOLE BUSINESS IS TRUTH AND TRUST.

AND IF YOU CAN'T DEMONSTRATE THAT ON A MICRO LEVEL, HOW CAN YOU DO THAT AN A MACRO LEVEL?

>> Jeff: YEAH, THAT'S A FAIR QUESTION.

KELLY, I WANT TO GO TO YOU.

I FEEL THEY MAY -- IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY FOR A SECOND CHANCE FOR THIS GUY, AND AS WE TAPE THIS IT'S THURSDAY MORNING.

HE MAY HAVE LOST HIS JOB, GOTTEN OUT OF JAIL, WHO KNOWS WHAT BY THE TIME FOLKS SEE THIS ON FRIDAY NIGHT.

BUT I'M CURIOUS THE WAY YOU THINK ABOUT THIS NEWSPAPER AND THIS STANCE THAT IT HAS TAKEN.

THE CLAIM THAT IT HAS STAKED ON THE ISSUE OF RETAIL CRIME, HOW HAS THAT SHAPED PUBLIC PERCEPTION AND THE CONVERSATION AROUND THIS ISSUE?

>> Golightley: WELL, I THINK IT'S DONE A NUMBER OF THINGS.

AND ONE OF THEM IS FIRST OF ALL THIS NEWSPAPER IS NOT FRIENDLY TO THE COURT SYSTEM.

IT'S, IN MY MIND, IT'S EXTREMELY JUDGMENTAL.

IT HAS THE ATTITUDE THAT IF YOU'RE A DEFENDANT YOU'RE GUILTY.

YOU DID IT.

THERE'S NOTHING FURTHER TO BE SAID OR DONE.

WHEN I HAVE MADE ARGUMENTS IN THE COURT, I HAVE FOUND SOMETIMES MY ARGUMENTS TO BE NOT TAKEN AS STRONGLY AS I THOUGHT THEY SHOULD BE.

AND THAT'S NOT ABOUT THEIR REPORTERS THAT I HAVE SPOKEN WITH AT THE JOURNAL.

I'M TALKING ABOUT LIKE OPINION PIECES.

I'M TALKING ABOUT THE READERSHIP WRITING IN.

I'M TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE DON'T HAVE A FAIR PAPER FOR THE COMMUNITY.

WE HAVE KIND OF A PUSH TOWARDS OUR STANDARDS.

AND SO, WHAT I THINK WE HAVE IS THIS RETAIL SHOPLIFTING.

IT'S BECOME A BIGGER PICTURE IN THE LEGISLATURE THAN IT HAS IN A LONG TIME, RIGHT?

WE HAVE THE AGGREGATE SHOPLIFTING SO THAT IF YOU DO MULTIPLE SHOPLIFTING AT DIFFERENT TIMES IT CAN BE PUT TOGETHER AS ONE INSTANCE FOR A GREATER PENALTY.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT -- THIS IS PETTY MISDEMEANOR.

HE GOT A SUMMONS.

THAT SOUNDS LIKE A TRAFFIC TICKET.

HE WALKED IN TO WHAT HE THOUGHT WAS MAYBE A TRAFFIC TICKET, AND SAID, YEAH, I DIDN'T SCAN SOME ITEMS.

WAS IT A MISTAKE?

DID HE INTEND TO LEAVE WITH THOSE PURCHASES WITHOUT PAYING FOR THEM?

WE DON'T KNOW.

HE WASN'T REPRESENTED.

HIS DEFENSE WASN'T FLESHED OUT.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS THINKING.

SO, ONE OF THE THINGS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS RETAIL SHOPLIFTING, SOME PEOPLE WILL SAY IT'S A VICTIMLESS CRIME.

EHH, THAT'S DEBATABLE.

THERE'S TRUTH THAT THERE'S NOT AN ACTUAL VICTIM, BUT WE HAVE HOME DEPOT AND LOWE'S AND SOME OF THESE OTHER STORES THAT ARE CLOSING BECAUSE SOME OF THE SHRINKAGE.

SO WE DO WANT TO TAKE IT SERIOUSLY, OF COURSE.

BUT IN THIS SITUATION, WE'RE LOOKING AT SOMEBODY FROM MAINSTREAM WHO'S ONLY SEEN THIS RECORD OF PEOPLE IN POVERTY BEING SHOPLIFTERS.

SO HE COMES TO COURT LIKE YEAH, I DIDN'T SCAN IT, NOW HE'S IN JAIL.

NOW HE CAN PROBABLY ABSORB TEN DAYS OF NOT WORKING.

>> Jeff: WE'RE GOING TO GET TO CONSEQUENCES IN THE NEXT SEGMENT, KELLY.

I DEFINITELY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT.

THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE RUNG UP ON SHOPLIFTING THAT DON'T MAKE $120,000 A YEAR.

BUT THE POINT HERE IS THAT THERE'S SOME HYPOCRISY IN THIS.

AND I WANT TO PIVOT TO SOMETHING ELSE REALLY QUICKLY.

THINGS ALREADY WERE NOT WELL AT THE LARGEST NEWS ORGANIZATION IN THE STATE.

MY FORMER EMPLOYER.

I'M GOING TO READ A LIST OF NAMES RIGHT NOW.

THESE ARE FOLKS WHO HAVE LEFT THE NEWSPAPER IN JUST THE LAST HANDFUL OF YEARS.

MANY OF THEM SINCE PATRICK ETHRIDGE.

SO HERE'S THE LIST: JESSICA DYER, ALAINA MENCINGER, ROBERTO ROSALES, ADOLPHE PIERRE-LOUIS, RICK NATHANSON, ESTEBAN CANDELARIA, ROBERT BROWMAN, ELISE KAPLAN, KATY BARNITZ, DAN MCKAY.

THAT IS A MASSIVE LIST.

TONS OF INSTITUTIONAL MEMORY JUST GONE.

SO, GWYNETH, WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON AT THE JOURNAL AND WHO RESPONSIBLE ULTIMATELY FOR THIS?

>> Doland: IT'S LEADERSHIP, RIGHT?

ULTIMATELY THE PUBLISHER IS RESPONSIBLE.

I DON'T WANT TO, YOU KNOW, PIN HIM HERE.

BUT THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS WHEN YOU ARE THE PERSON WHOSE FAMILY HAS OWNED THIS NEWSPAPER FOR NEARLY A HUNDRED YEARS.

IT'S YOUR NAME ON THE MASTHEAD.

THAT PUTS HIM IN A TOUGH SPOT, RIGHT?

HE'S BACKED INTO A CORNER ON THIS BECAUSE OF WHAT THE PAPER HAS DONE ABOUT THE STRATEGY OF THE CRIME COVERAGE.

IT IS A SMALL CRISIS THAT'S PART OF THE LARGER NEWS CRISIS WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IN HERE.

A HUNDRED YEARS AGO TO HAVE THIS NEWSPAPER WAS LIKE PRINTING MONEY, RIGHT?

IT JUST RACKED IN THE MONEY.

TODAY THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL, I MEAN THIS IS REALLY A REAL ESTATE COMPANY.

ALL THAT STUFF -- >> Jeff: JOURNAL CENTER.

>> Doland: JOURNAL CENTER, RIGHT?

THIS PAPER DESPERATELY NEEDS A TURNAROUND, AS MANY DO, RIGHT?

MANY NEWSPAPERS ARE DESPERATELY IN NEED OF A TURNAROUND.

THIS FAMILY SEEMS LIKE THEY HAVE THE MONEY TO DO IT.

DO THEY HAVE THE LEADERSHIP TO DO IT?

DO THEY WANT TO DO IT, RIGHT?

THEY NEED LEADERSHIP OF VISION, EXPERIENCE, AND INTEGRITY TO POWER THIS TURNAROUND, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW.

>> Jeff: I WANT TO MAKE VERY, VERY CLEAR HERE TO YOUR POINT, BILL LANG THE PUBLISHER AND OWNER OF THE NEWSPAPER, HE HIRED PATRICK ETHRIDGE, AND PATRICK ETHRIDGE IS ON THE EDITORIAL BOARD, WHICH YOU JUST MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO, THAT'S TAKEN SOME OF THESE INCREDIBLY DRACONIAN POSITIONS.

FOR ME, I KNOW I DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN A CITY OF A HALF A MILLION PEOPLE THAT DOESN'T HAVE A FUNCTIONING DAILY NEWSPAPER.

I'M INTERESTED FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE HOW IS A NEWSPAPER SUPPOSED TO WORK IN TERMS OF INFORMING AND SHAPING PUBLIC CONVERSATION AROUND POLICY?

>> Golightley: SO, THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT I THINK ARE REALLY VALUABLE WITH THIS.

AND ONE IS THAT WE RECEIVE FAIR REPORTING, RIGHT?

AND BY FAIR REPORTING, I DON'T JUST MEAN THAT THE PERSON WHO'S COMING AND WATCHING MY TRIAL GIVE AN ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF WHAT HE WITNESSED.

HE HAS BEEN DOING THAT, BY THE WAY.

WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS THAT THE OPINION PIECES ARE ONLY SLANTED TOWARDS THIS CRIME AND PUNISHMENT.

SO, I CAN'T PICK A JURY THAT DOESN'T THINK THAT CRIME IS OUT OF CONTROL, THAT GUN CONTROL IS OUT OF CONTROL.

THAT EVERYBODY SITTING IN THAT CHAIR HAS DONE SOMETHING HORRIBLE.

THAT THE HOMELESS PEOPLE ARE MORE VIOLENT THAN, YOU KNOW, A SNAPSHOT OF SOCIETY.

SO THAT'S MY CONCERN IS I WANT TO SEE FUNCTIONING REPORTING.

I ALSO DON'T APPRECIATE THAT THE POLICE AND THE D.A.

'S OFFICE ARE OFTEN REQUESTED TO GIVE THEIR OPINION ABOUT A PENDING CASE AND I'M NOT CALLED.

WHY AM I NOT CALLED?

ISN'T THERE A RESPONSIBILITY THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE PROMOTING ONE SIDE I ALSO HAVE THE ABILITY TO PROMOTE MINE?

>> Jeff: THERE IS, YES.

GO AHEAD, GWYNETH.

>> Doland: I THINK THE BIGGER PICTURE HERE IS THAT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF JOURNALISM TODAY IS TO REPORT ON WHAT'S HAPPENING IN YOUR COMMUNITY.

WHO HAS BEEN ARRESTED, WHAT ARE THE STATISTICS, WHAT ARE THE TRENDS, WHAT'S HAPPENING AT CITY COUNCIL OR WHATEVER.

BUT ALSO, TO CREATE AN ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH YOUR AUDIENCE CAN COME TO SOLUTIONS, RIGHT?

AND TO TALK ABOUT WAYS THESE PROBLEMS COULD BE SOLVED.

AND TO KIND OF MOVE AWAY FROM THIS DAILY DRUMBEAT OF MURDER AND DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND DRUG USE AND SHOPLIFTING AND ALL OF THAT.

TO STEP BACK AND SAY, HOW CAN WE AS A NEWS ORGANIZATION HELP THESE PEOPLE IN THIS COMMUNITY CHANGE THIS.

AND TAKE THAT HIGHER-LEVEL PERSPECTIVE.

IT'S A LOT HARDER.

>> Jeff: SO, THERE HAS BEEN A VACUUM CREATED OBVIOUSLY BY SOME OF THE FAILINGS AT THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL.

WE JUST MADE A SHOW ABOUT THIS A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO IN TERMS OF THE IDEAS AND INNOVATIONS THAT ARE TAKING PLACE TO FILL SOME OF THOSE GAPS.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THOSE INNOVATIONS, AND HAS THE JOURNAL BEEN A PART OF TRYING TO SAVE LOCAL NEWS?

>> Doland: LOOK, I'VE HAD A LOT OF STUDENTS, AND GRADUATES OF UNM WHO ARE WORKING AT THE JOURNAL NOW, AND WHO HAVE WORKED THERE, YOU KNOW, EVER SINCE I STARTED TEACHING.

I THINK THEY'RE DOING A GREAT JOB.

AGAIN, IT'S AT THE TOP WHERE WE NEED TO SEE THESE NEW IDEAS COMING.

I DON'T FEEL LIKE THE JOURNAL HAS BEEN A PART OF THESE CONVERSATIONS.

AND YOU KNOW WE THROW LOCAL NEWS SUMMITS HERE.

WE BRING IN EXPERTS FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

WE DO A LOT OF THESE KIND OF COMMUNITY FUNCTIONS AND THINGS LIKE THIS.

AND I DON'T GET BUY-IN FROM THE JOURNAL ABOVE THE, YOU KNOW, REPORTER LEVEL.

AND THAT'S FINE.

BUT I THINK IT'S INDICATIVE OF THIS OLD-FASHIONED VIEW OF LIKE WE ARE THE BIG GUY IN THE ROOM.

LIKE, WE DON'T NEED YOU.

WE ARE TOO BIG TO FAIL, RIGHT?

AND THE SCARY PART IS THEY'RE NOT TOO BIG TO FAIL, AT ALL.

OTHER NEWSROOMS ARE, YOU KNOW, EXPERIMENTING WITH ALL SORTS OF MULTI-PLATFORM REPORTING AND THE JOURNAL HAS NOT -- I KNOW THEY'VE TRIED A LITTLE BIT BUT HAVEN'T BEEN SUCCESSFUL.

THEY HAVE NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN DIVERSIFYING THE REVENUE STREAM IN BRINGING THE COMMUNITY INTO THE NEWSROOM, IN HIRING YOUNG, TALENTED REPORTERS WHO CAN DO NEW THINGS AND EMPOWERING THEM TO EXPERIMENT.

CHANGE IS HARD.

IT'S REALLY HARD, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S YOUR NAME AND YOUR MONEY ON THE LINE.

IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT.

IT TAKES GUTS.

IT TAKES, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT OF FEARLESSNESS.

AND IT TAKES INVESTMENT.

AND THE JOURNAL HAS ALWAYS BEEN CONSTITUTIONALLY, OPERATIONALLY CONSERVATIVE.

AND I THINK THIS IS MAYBE THE MOMENT WHERE THERE COULD BE A CHANGE.

>> Jeff: WHERE WANT TO KIND OF END THERE.

WE'VE GOT A COUPLE OF MINUTES LEFT.

AND I WANT TO KICK THIS TO BOTH OF YOU, BUT YOU AND I HAVE BOTH SPOKEN WITH SOME STAFFERS SINCE THIS ETHRIDGE SITUATION CAME UP.

IT IS DEFINITELY MY SENSE, AND I THINK IT'S YOURS TOO, HE WASN'T PARTICULARLY POPULAR OR REALLY INVOLVED VERY MUCH IN THE JOURNALISM THAT THE NEWSPAPER HAS BEEN PRODUCING.

SO YOU JUST MENTIONED AN OPPORTUNITY HERE, ARE YOU CONFIDENT WITH THE PRESENT OWNERSHIP OF THE NEWSPAPER THAT SOMETHING DIFFERENT COULD HAPPEN HERE?

>> Doland: I'M HOPEFUL THAT THIS IS A MOMENT THAT KIND OF PUTS A LITTLE CRACK IN THE WAY THAT THINGS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN DONE THERE.

I MEAN IT'S BEEN BUSINESS AS USUAL FOR A REALLY LONG TIME.

AND I THINK THIS IS POINTS TO A CRISIS THAT THERE'S A VACUUM AT THE TOP OF THIS NEWSPAPER.

THEY LOST A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF TALENT AT THE TOP LEVEL JUST IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS.

AND SO NOW THERE'S NO ONE TO TRAIN UP THESE OTHER FOLKS.

THERE'S NO ONE TO LEAD THEM.

THERE'S NO ONE TO POINT THEM IN A NEW DIRECTION, GIVE THEM THE TOOLS AND THE SKILLS THEY NEED TO PURSUE THIS VISION.

THERE'S VERY LITTLE ACCOUNTABILITY REPORTING HAPPENING AT THIS PAPER.

THERE'S NO INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING HAPPENING DAILY BASIS.

YOU LOOK AT THE NEWSLETTER OF THE SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN AND YOU'RE LIKE, OH, THAT'S WHERE IT IS.

THAT'S WHERE EVERYONE IS.

AND THAT'S WHERE ALL THE NEWS IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING.

I LOOK AT THE NEWSLETTER IN THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL AND IT'S LIKE PET PARADE AND A NEW TWISTERS HAS OPENED AND IT'S LIKE BLAH, BLAH CORN MAZE WEEKEND AND THAT'S IT.

>> Jeff: THE NEW MEXICAN IS ALSO WHERE YOU'LL FIND THE NAMES OF MOST OF THE OLD JOURNAL REPORTERS.

KELLY, I'VE GOT ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT.

WHAT IS YOUR HOPE FOR WHAT THIS NEWSPAPER COULD BE AND DO YOU THINK IT'S POSSIBLE?

>> Golightley: WELL, LET ME TELL YOU THAT THE SANTA FE CALLS ME ALMOST EVERY TIME I'M IN COURT, OKAY?

THEY -- THEY'RE REPORTING, THEY TRY VERY HARD TO BE FAIR.

THEY TRY VERY HARD TO GET THE STORY CLEANER.

THAT'S BEEN MY EXPERIENCE.

SO, I'D LIKE TO SEE REPORTERS THAT WERE MORE INTERESTED IN GETTING A FULLER PICTURE.

>> Jeff: GOTCHA.

THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU, THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR NOW.

BUT WE'LL MEET BACK HERE AT THE END OF THE SHOW TO TALK ABOUT THE LEGAL CASE AGAINST ETHRIDGE, WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT OUR STATE'S CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, AND HOW WE TALK ABOUT THAT.

>> Butler: THE SHOWERS ARE REALLY THE CARROT OF THE WHOLE THING.

WE WANTED A WAY TO GET PEOPLE TO US AND STANDING IN FRONT OF US IN A SAFE ENVIRONMENT WHERE WE COULD ENGAGE THEM.

THEY COME, WE GET THEM INTO THE UNITE US SYSTEM, WHICH IS A SYSTEM EVERYONE USES, SO WE CAN TRACK THEIR PROGRESS TO WHAT SERVICES THEY'RE USING.

WHETHER IT BE THROUGH, IN SANTA FE, THROUGH LIFE LINK WHICH WORKS ON HOUSING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

WE HAVE A CASE MANAGER THAT ENGAGES AND SEES IF THEY NEED TO GET THEIR IDs, IF THEY NEED HELP GETTING THEIR BIRTH CERTIFICATES, IF THEY NEED HELP GETTING THEIR DRIVER'S LICENSE AND OTHER THINGS.

>> Lou: MY INTERVIEW WITH JAMES BUTLER ON THE SHOWERS TO GO PROGRAM FROM PETE'S PLACE IN SANTA FE IS COMING UP IN ABOUT 15 MINUTES.

A PILOT PROJECT THAT'S INVESTED THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN 15 NEW MEXICO CHILDREN HAS CAUGHT THE ATTENTION OF STATE LAWMAKERS.

THE PROGRAM CALLED BABY BONDS PROVIDES EACH CHILD WITH A $6,000 DEPOSIT INTO AN ACCOUNT OVERSEEN BY AN INVESTMENT GROUP.

THE IDEA IS FOR THAT MONEY TO GO OVER TIME SO THE CHILD CAN WITHDRAW IT AS EARLY AS THEIR 18th BIRTHDAY.

NOW ONE OF THE PROGRAM'S KEY SUPPORTERS IS STATE TREASURER LAURA MONTOYA.

SHE'S CALLING ON ELECTED OFFICIALS TO EXPAND THE PROJECT DURING THE NEXT LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

MONTOYA TELLS CORRESPONDENT RUSSELL CONTRERAS THAT BABY BONDS, ALONG WITH FINANCIAL LITERACY EDUCATION WOULD SET OUR STATE'S NEXT GENERATION UP FOR SUCCESS.

>> Russell: STATE TREASURER LAURA MONTOYA, THE FIRST LATINA ELECTED TREASURER IN THE NATION'S HISTORY.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US HERE.

>> Montoya: I'M SO HAPPY TO BE HERE.

>> Russell: THANK YOU.

BEFORE WE GET INTO YOUR PROPOSAL ABOUT BABY BONDS, TELL THE VIEWER WHAT IS BABY BONDS.

WHAT ARE THEY AND WHY ARE THEY IMPORTANT RIGHT NOW?

>> Montoya: FOR ME, BABY BONDS IS A GAME-CHANGER IN BRIDGING THE GAP OF INEQUITY BETWEEN RICH AND POOR.

IT'S HELPING CHANGE THE WEALTH DIVIDE.

WHAT THEY DO IS YOU HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY, YOU PUT IT IN A TRUST.

YOU INVEST IT THAT ENTIRE TIME.

AND ONCE THE LEGISLATION IS PASSED, ANY BABY BORN IN NEW MEXICO WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE SOMETHING SIMILAR TO A TRUST FUND WHEN THEY TURN 18.

AND DEPENDING ON WHAT THE LEGISLATURE DECIDES ON, WE'RE HOPING THAT IT WILL ALLOW FOR SCHOOLING, THE TRADES, BOOKS, MAYBE A CAR SO THEY CAN GET TO AND FROM WORK, BEING ABLE TO HELP WITH A BUSINESS PROPOSAL OR A DOWN PAYMENT ON A HOME.

SOMETHING THAT CAN ALLOW THEM TO REALLY BRIDGE THAT GAP RIGHT AT THAT AGE LIMIT.

AND THEY WOULDN'T GET THE MONEY DIRECTLY.

IT WOULD BE THROUGH THE STATE AND THEN THE STATE WOULD PAY, YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE THE UNIVERSITY OR THE TRADE SCHOOL OR WHOEVER IT MIGHT BE.

IF THEY DIDN'T NEED THE MONEY, THEN THERE'S A POTENTIAL FOR THEM TO KEEP IT INVESTED AND UTILIZE IT FOR THEIR RETIREMENT.

SO NOW YOU'VE SHIFTED NOT ONLY YOUR ECONOMY AND INCREASING THE ECONOMIC ASPECTS OF NEW MEXICO, YOU'RE KEEPING PEOPLE IN NEW MEXICO.

YOU'RE GIVING THE WORKFORCE A HIGHER LEVEL OF SKILL SET.

AND GIVING EVERYONE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LIVE THEIR AMERICAN DREAM.

>> Russell: NEW MEXICO WOULDN'T BE THE FIRST TO DO THIS.

THIS IS KIND OF A MOVEMENT THAT'S GOING ON ACROSS THE NATION.

MANY STATES ARE THINKING ABOUT BABY BONDS, HAVE INSTITUTED A PROGRAM VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT -- WHY IS THIS TAKING OFF?

>> Montoya: STATE TREASURERS.

WE'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS.

TREASURER ERICK RUSSELL FROM CONNECTICUT, ALONG WITH FORMER TREASURER WOODEN FROM CONNECTICUT HAD WORKED ON THIS WITH THEIR LEGISLATURE AND GOVERNOR.

THEY ONLY DO IT FOR WHAT'S CALLED THE HUSKIES WHICH IS THEIR MEDICAID PARTICIPANTS, AND ALLOW FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY TO BE INVESTED FOR THOSE CHILDREN.

SO AS OF JULY 1st OF THIS YEAR, EVERY HUSKY BABY IN CONNECTICUT HAS THIS TRUST FUND INCORPORATED INTO THE SYSTEM FOR THEM.

ERICK RUSSEL'S GOING TO BE HERE FOR OUR BABY BOND SYMPOSIUM THIS NEXT MONTH, OCTOBER 16-17 TO HELP TALK ABOUT IT ALONG WITH DR. HAMILTON FROM THE NEW SCHOOL OF NEW YORK.

DR. HAMILTON WAS AN INDIVIDUAL THAT WORKED WITH SENATOR BOOKER BACK WHEN HE WAS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT TALKING ABOUT BABY BONDS.

SO, IT'S BEEN SOMETHING LONG-COMING.

BUT I THINK TREASURERS BEING ABLE TO SEE HOW THIS CAN EXPAND OUR ECONOMY, HELP TO BRIDGE THAT DIVIDE, AND IT'S JUST A GAME-CHANGER FOR US.

IT'S REALLY STARTING TO TAKE OFF AND A LOT OF NONPROFITS, AND NOT FOR PROFITS, OTHER ORGANIZATIONS, BANKS, ARE ALL COMING TOGETHER REALIZING THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HELPS OUR COMMUNITIES AND OUR ECONOMY.

AND TO KEEP IN MIND IT'S ONLY WITHIN YOUR OWN STATE.

SO, THAT MONEY WON'T BE USED FOR A HOUSE IN ANOTHER STATE OR FOR SCHOOLING IN ANOTHER STATE.

IT'S ALL MONEY THAT'S STAYING IN NEW MEXICO WITH THE CHILDREN THAT ARE STAYING IN NEW MEXICO.

>> Russell: NEW MEXICO IS ONE OF THE POOREST STATES, IF NOT THE POOREST STATE IN THE NATION.

WE LIVE PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK, MANY OF OUR RESIDENTS DO.

HOW WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO SELL THE IDEA OF BABY BONDS TO THIS POPULATION THAT COULD BE SKEPTICAL ABOUT MONEY, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT MONEY THEY CURRENTLY HAVE.

THIS IS SOMETHING THEY CAN EARN OVER TIME.

HOW WOULD YOU CONVEY THIS STORY ABOUT WHY BABY BONDS ARE IMPORTANT TO THE STATE WHERE WE'RE STRUGGLING FROM PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK?

>> Montoya: A COUPLE OF WAYS.

WE LIVE PAYCHECK AND PAYCHECK, AND EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE A MAJORITY MINORITY POPULATION, WE ARE VERY RICH IN OTHER WAYS.

WE HAVE THE SECOND LARGEST PERMANENT FUND.

ABOUT $55 BILLION, CURRENTLY.

WE HAVE MONEY AT THIS TIME AND OPPORTUNITY TO BE ABLE TO UTILIZE THESE FUNDS IF THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR AGREE.

YOU ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT LIKE A SPREADSHEET WHEN YOU'RE RECONCILING.

YOU'RE PUTTING MONEY IN SOMETHING THAT'S POSITIVE THAT'S GOING TO HELP SOMETHING TO GROW AND BE INVESTED IN, VERSUS PUTTING MORE MONEY IN THE SYSTEM TO SORT OF CHASE ALL OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT HAPPENED.

SO RIGHT NOW, FOR EXAMPLE, 85-90% OF ALL CHILDREN THAT ARE BORN ARE BORN INTO MEDICAID IMMEDIATELY.

THAT TELLS YOU WE HAVE THE POVERTY SYSTEM.

BUT INSTEAD OF HAVING TO BE A CHILD THAT HAS TO BE ON MEDICAID, WHY DON'T WE HELP PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO GET TO THAT NEXT LEVEL SO THAT THEIR CHILDREN AND THEIR CHILDREN'S CHILDREN WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO JUST GROW ON THEIR OWN ACCORD WITHOUT AS MUCH SOCIAL SERVICES.

INCARCERATION IS ANOTHER BIG ONE.

INSTEAD OF PUTTING MONEY TOWARD A PERSON BEING INCARCERATED, WHY DON'T WE USE THAT MONEY INSTEAD TO BE ABLE TO ASSIST OUR CHILDREN TO LIVE IN A MORE PROSPEROUS LIFE AND BE ABLE TO FULFILL THEIR DREAMS?

>> Russell: GREAT IDEA.

NOW TALK ABOUT PROCESS, HOW CAN WE GET THIS DONE?

THIS IS AN IDEA THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING.

WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO MAKE SURE THIS IS INSTITUTIONALIZED?

>> Montoya: WE NEED TEAM WORK.

TEAMWORK MAKES THE DREAM WORK.

RIGHT NOW, OUR SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, JAVIER MARTINEZ, AND I ARE WORKING ON THE LEGISLATION WITH OUR TWO TEAMS.

WE HAVE A SYMPOSIUM ON OCTOBER 17th HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE AT THE HISPANIC CULTURAL CENTER.

AND WE'RE GOING TO BRING PEOPLE NOT ONLY FROM NEW MEXICO BUT PEOPLE FROM OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY TO TALK ABOUT BABY BONDS, EDUCATE PEOPLE, TEACH THEM WHAT IT IS, WHAT IT ISN'T.

AND THEN BE ABLE TO ASK OUR LEGISLATORS TO HAVE A PRIVATE DISCUSSION WITH DR. HAMILTON AND TREASURER ERICK RUSSEL ABOUT ANY QUESTIONS THEY HAVE ABOUT THEIR PROCESS OR WHAT THIS DOES AND WHAT IT DOESN'T DO.

AND THEN HOPEFULLY HAVE ENOUGH ALLIES THAT WITH WILLING TO HELP BUILD A COALITION THAT WILL THEN MOVE THIS INTO THE DIRECTION OF THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS DURING THE NEXT SESSION, ALONG WITH LOT OF ALLIES FROM THE LEGISLATURE.

LINDA SERRATO IS A VISIONARY THAT HELPED US GET $160,000 TO BE ABLE TO USE TO HELP US STRUCTURE BABY BONDS GOING INTO THE NEXT LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

THERE'S OTHER LEGISLATORS WHO ARE REALLY EXCITED AND SEE THE POSITIVE EFFECTS THAT THIS COULD BRING TO OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR STATE.

AND KEEPING OUR CHILDREN HERE.

>> Russell: TAKE ME BACK A WHILE.

LET'S STEP BACK.

YOU'RE A NORTENA FROM LAS VEGAS.

GROWING UP IN THE AREA, IT'S RICH IN A LOT OF AREAS, AS YOU MENTIONED.

BUT IT'S ALSO AN AREA THAT HAS STRUGGLED WITH POVERTY.

HOW -- GROWING UP IN THAT AREA AND WHAT YOU SAW, IN TERMS OF POVERTY, IN TERMS OF STRUGGLE, HAS INFLUENCED YOU TO BECOME SO PASSIONATE ABOUT BABY BONDS?

WHAT DID YOU SEE GROWING UP?

AND HOW IS THAT INFLUENCING YOU TODAY?

>> Montoya: I SAW MY PARENTS WORK, DAY IN AND DAY OUT, RAISING THREE KIDS AND STILL NOT HAVING ENOUGH TO MAKE ENDS MEET, AT TIMES.

I SAW A LOT OF OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS IN MY COMMUNITY WHO WORKED REALLY HARD WHERE THEY WERE HONEST, GOOD-PAYING PEOPLE WITH THEIR JOBS AND WOULD DO OTHER JOBS JUST TO BE ABLE TO SURVIVE.

OTHERS WHO SOMETIMES NEEDED SERVICES.

THAT'S WHY I'M PASSIONATE ABOUT IT NOT IT JUST BEING MEDICAID RECIPIENTS, BUT EVERYONE IN NEW MEXICO.

BECAUSE THERE'S LOT OF THOSE FAMILIES THAT ARE RIGHT AT THAT MIDDLE LINE OF LIKE A BAD CIRCUMSTANCE OR SITUATION PUTTING THEM UNDER THE POVERTY LINE EVEN WORSE THAN JUST LIKE RIGHT BARELY SURVIVING.

AND I SEE A LOT OF FAMILIES AND PARENTS AND GRANDPARENTS AND CAREGIVERS WHO WANT THE BEST FOR THEIR CHILDREN, AND GET STRESSED OUT WITH THE IDEA OF NOT KNOWING HOW THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THAT FOR THEM.

I THINK SINCE MY YOUNGER DAYS, NOW THAT WE HAVE COLLEGE AND AN OPPORTUNITY OF THE LOTTERY SCHOLARSHIP, WE HELPED PUSH THAT WHEN WHEN I WAS IN THE STUDENT SENATE AT HIGHLAND'S UNIVERSITY.

ALONG WITH LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE.

NOW, WE HAVE FREE COLLEGE, FOR THE MOST PART.

NOW WE NEED TO COME TO ANOTHER STEP WHERE-- WHY SHOULDN'T EVERYONE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY LIKE OTHER KIDS WHO ARE TRUST FUNDS, TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO FULFILL THEIR DREAMS, AND IN THE SAME SENSE BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING THAT HELPS IMPACT THEIR COMMUNITY IN A POSITIVE WAY?

SO, I JUST FEEL THAT GROWING UP IN A SMALL, RURAL NEW MEXICO AREA REALLY TAUGHT ME THE FACT THAT AS MUCH AS THE COMMUNITY TRIES TO WORK TOGETHER, THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT NO MATTER HOW HARD THEY WORK, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO SUSTAIN WITHOUT SHIFTING THAT WEALTH DIVIDE.

AND THIS IS ONE OF THOSE WAYS TO BE ABLE TO DO IT SO THAT EVERY CHILD DOES HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY AND EVERY PARENT OR CAREGIVER CAN FEEL A LITTLE BIT OF RELIEF FROM ALL THE STRESSES OF THE WORLD AND TRYING TO HELP BENEFIT THEIR CHILDREN THAT THERE'S SOME SUPPORT THERE FROM THE STATE.

>> Russell: THE WEALTH DIVIDE -- OF COURSE BABY BONDS LONG-TERM WOULD BE MEANINGLESS WITHOUT SOME SORT OF FINANCIAL LITERACY.

YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE CASHING THIS OUT AND GETTING THE LATEST IPHONE, FOR EXAMPLE.

THE STATE LEGISLATURE FAILED TO PASS AN AMENDMENT, THIS PAST SESSION, REQUIRING FINANCIAL LITERACY IN HIGH SCHOOLS.

THEY MADE IT AN OPTION, WHICH MEANS IT'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IN MANY SCHOOLS.

WHAT DO WE LOSE WHEN WE DON'T MAKE FINANCIAL LITERACY A PRIORITY HERE?

>> Montoya: THAT'S WHY WE'RE LAST.

THAT'S A BIG ISSUE.

YOU KNOW, GROWING UP WE DIDN'T HAVE A SAVINGS ACCOUNT.

I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANT.

A LADY FROM THE BANK WAS THE LADY WHO TAUGHT ME ABOUT BEING ABLE TO SUBTRACT AND ADD IN WHAT YOU BRING IN AND WHAT YOU TAKE OUT.

IT WAS THE LADY THAT TAUGHT ME ABOUT OVERDRAFT FEES AND HER NAME WAS NORA ORTEGA, SHE'S SINCE PASSED, BUT SHE TAUGHT ME A LOT.

BUT IT WASN'T SCHOOL THAT TAUGHT ME THAT.

AND I WAS IN CALCULUS BY THE TIME I WAS A JUNIOR.

I WAS ALWAYS GOOD IN MATH.

BUT IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND LIFE SKILLS WITH THE FINANCIAL ASPECTS OF IT, YOU'RE NOT SETTING PEOPLE UP FOR SUCCESS.

WHEN I WENT TO COLLEGE ALL THOSE CREDIT CARDS YOU THOUGHT THEY WERE FREE, LIKE YOU DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT, AND YOU STILL DIDN'T KNOW 23, 33% THAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY PAYING MORE ON INTEREST SOMETIMES THAN YOU'RE PAYING ON HOW MUCH YOU ACTUALLY BORROWED.

THOSE TYPES OF CONCEPTS NEED TO BE TAUGHT IN OUR SCHOOLS SO THAT WE'RE SETTING PEOPLE UP FOR SUCCESS WHETHER THEY DECIDE TO GO INTO THE WORKFORCE, OR GO AND GET EDUCATED EITHER THROUGH THE TRADES OR THROUGH COLLEGE.

I AM ABSOLUTELY PASSIONATE ABOUT FINANCIAL LITERACY BECAUSE I KNOW HAD I HAD IT I WOULD HAVE BEEN A LOT MORE SUCCESSFUL WITH A LOT LESS MISTAKES ALONG THE WAY.

AND SO WOULD A LOT OF MY FRIENDS, MY CLASSMATES, MY SIBLINGS.

HAVING IT AS A LOCAL OPTION MAKES IT HARDER BECAUSE NOW I GOT TO GO ON THE ROAD, I'M TALKING TO SUPERINTENDENTS, I'M TALKING TO STUDENTS, AND I'M ASKING THEM TO ASK THEIR SCHOOLS TO PUT FINANCIAL LITERACY NOT ONLY AS AN OPTION, BUT AS PART OF THE GRADUATION REQUIREMENTS.

ON THE OTHER END, I'M BEGGING SUPERINTENDENTS AND SCHOOL EDUCATORS TO PLEASE PUT THIS IN.

AND THERE'S A LOT OF THEM WHO ARE ALREADY WORKING ON IT.

THE LAW ALREADY REQUIRES IT TO BE AN ELECTIVE.

BUT MOST CHILDREN, IF YOU DON'T KNOW, YOU DON'T KNOW.

IF THEIR PARENTS, THEY WON'T KNOW EITHER.

SO WHO IS GOING TO PICK THAT AS AN ELECTIVE TO NECESSARILY UNDERSTAND THAT'S GOING TO IMPACT THEIR FUTURE?

IF YOUR FAMILY COMES FROM AN AREA LIKE MINE WHERE WE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A SAVINGS ACCOUNT, SO IT'S CRITICAL WE HAVE IT AS A GRADUATION REQUIREMENT.

IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT THERE WAS BOTH THE CHAIRMAN OF HOUSE EDUCATION AND SENATE EDUCATION, ALONG WITH SENATOR MIMI STEWART AND AFT, WHICH IS TEACHERS UNION THAT DIDN'T SUPPORT IT IN THE COMMITTEE HEARINGS AND SAID THAT THAT'S NOT THE DIRECTION WE WANT TO GO RIGHT NOW.

THAT WE WANT IT TO BE A LOCAL OPTION.

SO, I'M ASKING ALL THE LOCAL FOLKS TO PLEASE HELP US TO GET OUR CHILDREN EQUIPPED FOR A BRIGHTER FUTURE AND FOR MAKING DECISIONS THAT ARE GOING TO BE IMPACTFUL.

ONCE YOU RUIN YOUR CREDIT SCORE, IT'S REALLY HARD TO SHIFT THAT.

THE IDEA THAT MY DAD TAUGHT ME, YOU KNOW, DON'T EVER LEND OUT YOUR CREDIT.

THAT WAS SOMETHING MY PARENTS TAUGHT ME.

BUT A LOT OF KIDS DON'T HAVE PARENTS THAT KNOW OR UNDERSTAND THAT CONCEPT.

INTEREST OFF OF LOANS, WE WOULDN'T NECESSARILY KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS UNLESS SOMEONE TAUGHT IT TO US.

OR WE LEARNED IT THROUGH A BAD EXPERIENCE.

SO FINANCIAL LITERACY IS ALSO GOING TO BE A COMPONENT OF BABY BONDS IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO USE THAT MONEY, YOU'D HAVE TO MANAGE SOME TYPE OF FINANCIAL LITERACY THAT THE STATE TREASURER'S OFFICE WOULD ALLOW.

AND CURRENTLY, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO DO FOR NEW MEXICO SO THAT WE'RE NOT ON THE LAST OF EVERY LIST ON EDUCATION.

>> Russell: NEW MEXICO IS THE MOST HISPANIC STATE IN THE NATION, YET LATINOS ARE UNLIKELY TO HAVE STOCK, RETIREMENT, A LOT OF EXTRA SAVINGS FROM PENSIONS ALL THE WAY DOWN TO MUTUAL FUNDS.

WHEN YOU COMPARE IT TO OTHER AMERICANS.

HOW CAN WE CHANGE THIS?

>> Montoya: START TALKING ABOUT IT A LOT MORE.

WHEN I HEARD ABOUT STOCKS, I THOUGHT THAT WAS SOMETHING WHITE PEOPLE DID.

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT IT WAS FOR EVERYBODY.

A LOT OF TIMES IT SOUNDED LIKE IT WAS TOO COMPLICATED TO UNDERSTAND.

SO, I THINK FAMILIARIZING IT -- YOU KNOW, LET'S TALK ABOUT FOR EXAMPLE SALT AND PEPPER BACK IN THE DAY.

LET'S TALK ABOUT SEX, BABY, NOBODY WANTED TO TALK ABOUT IT UNTIL THE HIV CRISIS.

NOW WE'RE IN A FINANCIAL CRISIS, THERE'S SO MANY PEOPLE WHO DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND FINANCES AND IT'S AN AWKWARD THING TO TALK ABOUT.

AND CULTURALLY WE DON'T USUALLY TALK ABOUT HOW MUCH DID YOU PAY FOR YOUR HOUSE, OR HOW MUCH DO YOU EARN.

THOSE ARE ALL THINGS WE HOLD VERY NEAR AND DEAR, BUT THESE ARE THINGS WE NEED TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT AT OUR KITCHEN TABLES, SO THAT WE'RE BETTER EQUIPPED TO MAKE THOSE FINANCIAL DECISIONS.

EVEN THE ONES THAT HELP US LEARN THROUGH FAILURE HELP US TO THEN BECOME SUCCESSFUL.

FOR EXAMPLE, A PREDATORY LOAN.

WE JUST GOT RID OF PREDATORY LENDING A COUPLE YEARS AGO.

THERE WAS A LOT OF NATIVE AREAS THAT ENDED UP GIVING THEIR JEWELRY OR HEIRLOOMS TO PEOPLE WITH A HIGH INTEREST RATE AND NEVER BEING ABLE TO GET THEM BACK.

THOSE TYPES OF STORIES NEED TO BE TOLD TO THEIR GRANDCHILDREN SO THAT WE DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES THAT WE MADE IN OUR PAST.

WE LEARN FROM IT.

>> Russell: AND LASTLY, BANK OF AMERICA, THEY ISSUED A REPORT JUST RECENTLY THAT LATINA GDP IS GROWING FASTER THAN ALMOST ANY GROUP IN THE UNITED STATES, IN ANY GROUP OF AMERICANS.

THIS IS AGAIN IS THE MOST HISPANIC STATE.

WE HAVE THE HIGHEST PERCENTAGE OF LATINAS HERE.

PAINT A PICTURE, IF WE WERE TO GET THEM THAT FINANCIAL LITERACY, THOSE BABY BONDS, ACCESS TO CAPITAL TO START SMALL BUSINESSES, HOW WOULD THIS STATE TRANSFORM IF WE WERE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT LATINA GDP GROWTH?

WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN NEW MEXICO?

>> Montoya: WE WOULD STOP SELLING OURSELVES SHORT.

WE HAVE SO MANY RESOURCES WITH OUR PEOPLE, WITH OUR ENVIRONMENT, WITH LESS TRAFFIC, WITH FOUR SEASONS, WITH LAND, WITH AIR, WIND AND ALL OF THE RESOURCES PEOPLE WANT, EVEN WITHIN DIFFERENT INDUSTRIES.

WE WOULD STOP SELLING OURSELVES SHORT.

WE WOULD WITH UNDERSTAND OUR WORTH, AND WE WOULD HAVE WORTH, AND WE WOULD HAVE VALUE.

AND WE WOULD BE ABLE TO INCREASE THOSE VALUES IN EDUCATION, IN TECHNOLOGY, IN ENERGY, IN HEALTH CARE, IN ALL THE DIFFERENT REALMS THAT NEW MEXICANS WANT TO CONTRIBUTE IN THEIR OWN SPECIFIC WAY.

>> Russell: STATE TREASURER MONTOYA, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US HERE ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Montoya: THANK YOU.

>> Lou: THANKS AGAIN TO STATE TREASURER LAURA MONTOYA, AND RUSSELL CONTRERAS FOR THAT INTERVIEW.

IF YOU WANT TO LEARN MORE ABOUT BABY BONDS AND HOW THEY MIGHT WORK AT THE STATEWIDE LEVEL, MONTOYA IS HOSTING A TWO-DAY SYMPOSIUM ON OCTOBER 17th AND 18th AT THE NATIONAL HISPANIC CULTURAL CENTER.

YOU CAN FIND MORE INFORMATION ON HOW TO REGISTER AT THE TREASURER'S WEBSITE.

BERNALILLO COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ARE CONSIDERING ADOPTING A MOBILE HYGIENE UNIT PROJECT TO HELP UNHOUSED PEOPLE.

THE COUNTY'S BEHAVIORAL HEALTH INITIATIVE PRESENTED A REPORT RECOMMENDING ONE LAST MONTH.

SEVERAL CITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE ALREADY USING A SIMILAR MODEL, INCLUDING ONE THAT BEGAN OPERATING THIS SPRING IN SANTA FE.

SHOWERS TO GO, A FREE SHOWER AND HEALTH SERVICES PROGRAM THROUGH PETE'S PLACE HAS HELPED MORE THAN 700 PEOPLE SINCE IT STARTED IN MARCH.

IN MY INTERVIEW WITH PROJECT MANAGER JAMES BUTLER, HE EXPLAINS THE IMPACT SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS A FRESH SHOWER CAN MAKE.

JAMES, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Butler: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Lou: OF COURSE.

NOW, EARLIER THIS SPRING PETE'S PLACE INTRODUCED ITS MOBILE HYGIENE UNIT, SHOWERS TO GO.

FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, PLANS FOR THIS PROGRAM WERE A LONGTIME IN THE MAKING.

HOW DID THIS ALL GET STARTED?

AND HOW DOES IT WORK?

>> Butler: REALLY, IT'S KORINA LOPEZ AND BEVERLY KELLAM WHO'S THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND DEPUTY DIRECTOR RESPECTIVELY, STARTED THE THOUGHT OF THIS PROGRAM PROBABLY A YEAR PRIOR TO US STARTING IT.

THEY STARTED THE PROCESS OF ACQUIRING THE EQUIPMENT THROUGH THE CITY, WHICH TOOK A LITTLE WHILE, BUT YOU KNOW WE JUST REALIZED THAT THEIR PRIORITIES DON'T ALWAYS MEET OUR PRIORITIES.

BUT THEY MADE IT HAPPEN THROUGH JUST A DOGGED DETERMINATION.

THEY GOT THE LEASE AGREEMENT AND WE TOOK POSSESSION OF IT AND WE STARTED RIGHT AWAY.

THEY GOT GRANTS THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TO FUND THE PROJECT.

WE WORKED THROUGH A LOT OF VOLUNTEER SERVICES TO GET EQUIPMENT AND GET SUPPLIES TO IT TO TRY TO KEEP THE COST DOWN.

WE DID A LOT OF THINGS TO DO THAT LIKE USING DISPOSABLE TOWELS INSTEAD OF THINGS WE HAVE TO LAUNDER, WHICH KEEPS THE COST DOWN AND KEEPS IT SAFER AS WELL.

BASICALLY ONCE WE TOOK POSSESSION WE STARTED RUNNING THE UNIT.

>> Lou: OKAY.

SO HOW DOES IT WORK FOR SOMEBODY THAT MIGHT WANT TO COME OUT AND USE ONE OF THESE UNITS?

>> Butler: WE'RE NO BAR TYPE OF THING.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO MEET ANY REQUIREMENTS.

YOU SHOW UP, WE USE A CODE THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH USES, WHICH IS SIMPLY THE FIRST TWO INITIALS OF YOUR FIRST NAME, THE FIRST TWO INITIALS OF YOUR MOTHER'S FIRST NAME AND THEN THE YEAR YOU WERE BORN.

AND WE CODE THAT SO WE CAN PROVE THAT WE ARE SERVICING PEOPLE.

THAT'S A REQUIREMENT THROUGH OUR GRANT.

AND EVERYONE USES THAT CODE.

IT'S A COMMON CODE USED IN THE STATE.

THEY SIGN UP, WE PUT THEM ON A LIST TO UTILIZE THE SHOWER, AND DURING THAT WAIT PERIOD WHEN THEY'RE WAITING TO GO, WE HAVE CASE MANAGERS AND OTHER OUTREACH PARTNERS THAT ARE THERE THAT START ENGAGING THOSE PEOPLE ABOUT OTHER SERVICES THAT THEY MAY NEED.

>> Lou: LET'S TALK ABOUT WHO YOU'RE SERVING.

JUST AN EXAMPLE OF SOME OF THE SITUATIONS THAT SOME OF THESE PEOPLE ARE IN.

>> Butler: YEAH, I LOVE TO TALK ABOUT THAT.

IT'S THE UNHOUSED POPULATION.

AND THAT CAN BE PEOPLE LIVING IN SHELTERS, PEOPLE LIVING IN THEIR CAR, PEOPLE THAT ARE JUST FINDING A PLACE TO SLEEP OUTSIDE.

MANY DIFFERENT REASONS FOR PEOPLE TO BE IN THAT POSITION.

ADDICTION, OBVIOUSLY, IS SOME OF IT.

BUT THERE'S MANY OTHER REASONS.

WE HAD A LADY THAT WE MET LAST TUESDAY THAT ENDED UP HOMELESS BECAUSE SHE ENDED -- SHE GOT DIVORCED AND HAD NOWHERE TO GO.

DIDN'T HAVE FAMILY TO GO TO.

SO, SHE'S LIVING IN HER CAR SLEEPING AT A REST STOP OFF THE FREEWAY.

HAPPENED TO FIND US BECAUSE SHE BROUGHT SACK LUNCH TO THE PARK WE WERE AT.

SO, NOW SHE'S BEEN THERE TWO TUESDAYS IN A ROW AND UTILIZES OUR SERVICES.

AND SHE WORKS.

I MEAN SHE WORK FOR A LOCAL RESTAURANT IN SANTA FE AND GOES TO WORK EVERY DAY.

THERE'S PLENTY OF REASONS.

WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT USE THE SERVICE BECAUSE THEY'RE ON THEIR WAY FOR A JOB INTERVIEW.

WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT USE THE SERVICES BECAUSE THEY DON'T LIKE GOING TO THE SHELTERS WHERE THOSE SERVICES ARE PROVIDED FOR DIFFERENT REASONS.

WHETHER IT'S TRIGGERING TO THEM IN SOME WAY, OR YOU KNOW THEY'VE BEEN ASKED NOT TO COME BACK FOR BEHAVIORAL ISSUES.

BUT BECAUSE WE HAVE NO BAR UNTIL YOU CREATE A BAR, THEY'RE WELCOME AT OUR SHOWER AND WE TAKE CARE OF THEM THERE.

>> Lou: OKAY.

WHEN YOU ENVISIONED THIS PROJECT, DID IT START AND STOP WITH SHOWERS?

YOU MENTIONED SOME OTHER SERVICES THAT ARE AVAILABLE, TALK TO ME ABOUT THAT.

>> Butler: YEAH, ACTUALLY THE SHOWERS ARE REALLY THE CARROT OF THE WHOLE THING.

WE WANTED A WAY TO GET PEOPLE TO US AND STANDING IN FRONT OF US IN A SAFE ENVIRONMENT WHERE WE COULD ENGAGE THEM.

THEY COME, WE GET THEM INTO THE UNITE US SYSTEM, WHICH IS A SYSTEM THAT EVERYONE USES SO WE CAN TRACK THEIR PROGRESS THROUGH WHAT SERVICES THEY'RE USING.

WHETHER IT BE THROUGH, IN SANTA FE, THROUGH LIFE LINK WHICH WORKS ON HOUSING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

WE HAVE A CASE MANAGER THAT ENGAGES THEM AND SEES IF THEY NEED TO GET THEIR IDs, IF THEY NEED HELP GETTING THEIR BIRTH CERTIFICATES, IF THEY NEED HELP GETTING THEIR DRIVER'S LICENSE AND OTHER THINGS.

WE HAVE MEDICAL OUTREACH THAT IS THERE THAT WE'LL SEE IF THEY HAVE ANY MEDICAL NEEDS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED.

THAT'S LA FAMILIA MEDICAL WHO RUNS HEALTH CARE FOR THE HOMELESS IN SANTA FE.

AND THEN ON THURSDAYS AT OUR SITE WE HAVE A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER THAT FOCUSES ON WOMEN'S HEALTH, THAT ENGAGES THE WOMEN THAT SHOW UP.

AND WE HAVE SOUTHWEST CARE WHO DOES HARM REDUCTION AT TWO OF OUR LOCATIONS AT THE PARK AND AT OUR SALVATION ARMY, WHICH IS A PARTNER PROVIDER THAT LETS US USE THEIR LOCATION.

REALLY, LIKE I SAID, THE SHOWER AND THE HYGIENE PART OF IT IS THE EASIEST PART OF THE PROGRAM.

EVERYONE KNOWS HOW A SHOWER FEELS, SO GETTING THEM THERE FOR A SHOWER WITHOUT A BUNCH OF QUESTIONS ABOUT WHO THEY ARE, WHERE THEY ARE, IS THE EASIEST PART OF IT.

WE WANT TO GET THEM INTO A SAFE ENVIRONMENT WHERE THEY'RE SITTING IN FRONT OF US AND WE CAN JUST TALK TO THEM LIKE HUMANS AND SEE WHAT THEY NEED.

>> Lou: HAVE YOU AND THESE ORGANIZATIONS THAT YOU'RE WORKING WITH, HAVE YOU SEEN SUCCESS IN CONNECTING PEOPLE WITH THESE OTHER RESOURCES?

>> Butler: ABSOLUTELY, YEAH.

I MEAN IT'S A NO-DOUBTER FOR US.

JUST THE OPPORTUNITY TO SIT AND TALK TO ONE PERSON IS A SUCCESS TO US.

BUT WE'RE DOING, YOU KNOW, WE'RE APPROACHING OVER 700 PEOPLE THAT HAVE USED THE SHOWER SERVICES SINCE WE'VE BEEN THERE.

AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET INTO OUR UNITE US SYSTEM WHERE WE CAN TRACK WHAT SERVICES THEY'RE IN THE PROGRESS OF GETTING, WHAT THEY NEED GOING FORWARD, AND WHERE WE ARE IN HELPING THEM DOING THAT.

AND WE CAN ALSO DIRECT THEM TO THE RESOURCES THAT THEY NEED.

IT'S JUST THAT'S PART OF OUR SHOWERS TO GO HYGIENE PROGRAM AND NAVIGATION SERVICES.

SO THAT'S THE NAVIGATION PART OF IT.

WE CAN HELP THEM THROUGH THE SYSTEM.

WE'VE ALL TRIED TO GET THROUGH THE SYSTEM AND GET SOMETHING DONE.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE THOSE RESOURCES AND THE INTERNET AND THINGS LIKE THAT AT YOUR HAND IT MAKES IT EVEN HARDER.

SO WE'RE THERE TO HELP THEM GET THROUGH THAT.

SO, YEAH, SUPER SUCCESSFUL.

WE'VE HAD PEOPLE GET JOBS AND THEY TOOK A SHOWER AT OUR SHOWERS FIRST.

WE GIVE CLOTHING.

WE'VE HELPED PEOPLE GET CLEAN CLOTHES TO GO TO JOB INTERVIEWS.

WE ALSO PASS OUT LUNCHES AND STUFF.

IT'S FAR MORE THAN JUST A SHOWER.

LIKE I SAID, THAT'S THE EASIEST PART OF THE WHOLE THING WE DO.

>> Lou: BEFORE I GET TOO FAR, WHERE ARE THOSE MOBILE UNITS?

>> Butler: WE SERVICE THREE LOCATIONS.

EVERY MONDAY WE'RE AT THE HEALTH CARE FOR THE HOMELESS CLINIC, WHICH IS OFF CERRILLOS ROAD DOWN BY THE INDIAN SCHOOL.

AND WE DO THAT ON MONDAYS THERE, WHICH WAS PART OF OUR THINKING WHEN WE ROLLED OUT THIS PROGRAM.

WE WANTED TO BE MULTI-FACETED WHEN WE SELECTED IT.

ON MONDAYS AT LA FAMILIA THEY ALSO OFFER OPEN CLINIC DAY THERE.

SO IF WE HAVE SOMEONE THAT SHOWS UP FOR A SHOWER THAT WE SEE THEY HAVE SOME OPEN WOUNDS, OR THEY HAVE SOME KIND OF MEDICAL NEED THAT THEY'RE ASKING US ABOUT, WE CAN LITERALLY WALK THEM INTO THE DOOR.

AND THEY'LL BE ABLE TO TALK TO SOMEBODY.

THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO GET TAKEN CARE OF RIGHT THERE, MAYBE THEY WILL, BUT THEY CAN ALSO GET AN APPOINTMENT AND THEY CAN START GETTING TAKEN CARE OF.

ON TUESDAYS, WE'RE AT THE VILLA LINDA PARK, WHICH IS NEAR THE MALL AND HARLEY-DAVIDSON IN SANTA FE.

AND THAT'S OUR NEWEST LOCATION.

WE WANTED TO GET TO THE SOUTH END OF SANTA FE BECAUSE WE KNEW THERE WERE ENCAMPMENTS DOWN THERE.

SO, WE STARTED THAT TWO TUESDAYS AGO.

IT'S PROVING TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

I THINK WE'RE GOING TO DO -- WE'RE GOING TO BE LIKE 10 TO 18 VISITS A DAY THERE.

WHICH IS GOOD.

AND THURSDAY, OUR BEST LOCATION IS OUR SALVATION ARMY ON WEST ALAMEDA.

THEY'RE A WONDERFUL PROVIDER AND THERE'S OTHER THINGS THAT THEY OFFER.

EVERY DAY AT 8 O'CLOCK THEY SERVE BREAKFAST.

SO WE'RE UP AND RUNNING AT 8 O'CLOCK.

SO SOMEBODY GETS A BREAKFAST AND THEY COME OUT AND GET THEIR SHOWER.

THEY CLOSE FOR 30 MINUTES FROM 8:30 TO 9:00.

AND THEY REOPEN AT 9:00 AND THEY HAVE SNACKS AND A WARMING STATION OR COOLING STATION FOR PEOPLE TO GET OUT OF THE WEATHER.

SO WE OPERATE ALL THREE LOCATIONS 8 A.M. TO 1 P.M. ON THOSE DAYS.

>> Lou: OKAY.

YOU TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE SUCCESSES YOU'VE HAD.

HAVE YOU HAD FEEDBACK FROM SOME OF THESE PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE HELPING OUT?

>> Butler: ABSOLUTELY.

THEY LOOK FORWARD TO IT.

THEY COME AND THEY KNOW WE'RE A RESOURCE TOO.

THEY KNOW WHAT WE HAVE TO OFFER.

PLENTY OF THEM BRING OTHER PEOPLE WITH THEM, WHICH IS A GREAT THING.

BECAUSE, LIKE I SAID, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN COMMUNICATION NETWORK THAT THEY GET THE WORD OUT TO THE OTHER UNHOUSED POPULATION.

SO THEY'LL BRING PEOPLE WITH THEM.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING THEM.

WE KNOW MOST OF THEM BY NAME NOW, SINCE WE'VE BEEN USING IT.

YEAH, IT'S GREAT.

>> Lou: GOOD.

NOW LAST WEEK BERNALILLO COUNTY COMMISSIONERS HEARD A PRESENTATION ON MOBILE HYGIENE UNITS.

FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE RUNNING SHOWERS TO GO, WHAT WOULD YOU TELL THE COMMISSION ABOUT THE IMPACT OF THE SERVICE IN SANTA FE SO FAR?

>> Butler: I'VE SAID THIS A FEW TIMES, AND THE BIGGEST THING IS THE CHANGE IN A PERSON WHEN THEY JUST GET A SHOWER AND THEY COME OUT AND THEY FEEL THAT -- THEY FEEL MORE HUMAN.

THEY'RE ABLE TO KIND OF GO ATTACK THEIR DAY A LITTLE MORE POSITIVELY.

THE SITUATION HERE, I WOULD IMAGINE JUST BECAUSE OF POPULATION DIFFERENCE, THERE'S PROBABLY A GREATER NEED FOR IT.

THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO DOWNSIDE TO DOING THIS.

IF IT'S JUST A HYGIENE PROGRAM, THAT'S GREAT TOO.

I WOULD HOPE THEY DO MORE WITH IT AND GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO ENGAGE BECAUSE THAT'S THE BIGGEST WORD TO THIS IS ENGAGE THESE PEOPLE.

BUT IF IT ENDS UP JUST BEING A SHOWER SERVICE, THAT'S GREAT TOO.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S A STARTING POINT.

THERE'S NO DOWNSIDE.

THERE'S PLENTY OF LOCATIONS THEY CAN PARTNER UP AND DO THINGS WITH, WITH OTHER ORGANIZATIONS.

YEAH, THAT'S LIKE I SAID, THEY NEED TO DO THIS.

>> Lou: SO, YOU SAY NO DOWNSIDE, BUT ARE THERE ANY PITFALLS THAT YOU WOULD WARN SOMEBODY ABOUT WHO IS TRYING TO OPEN A MOBILE HYGIENE UNIT LIKE THIS?

OR ANY POTENTIAL AVENUES TO REACH SOME UNHOUSED PEOPLE AND CONNECT THEM WITH THESE RESOURCES THAT YOU WOULD ENCOURAGE THEM TO PURSUE WHEN SETTING THIS UP?

>> Butler: YEAH.

GETTING THE WORD OUT, LIKE I SAID, THEY HAVE A COMMUNICATION NETWORK.

THERE'S ALREADY PEOPLE THAT ARE -- I KNOW THEY'RE DOING OUTREACH AND GOING TO THESE ENCAMPMENTS AND GETTING THE WORD TO THEM ON WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO BE.

AND DON'T MOVE YOUR UNITS.

FIND YOUR LOCATIONS, SET THEM THERE AND DON'T LET IT BE A FIND WALDO SITUATION WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO FIND THE FOOD TRUCK IS OR WHATEVER.

BE IN THE LOCATION AND STAY THERE.

DO THE GROUNDWORK UP FRONT ON WHAT YOU WANT TO GET OUT OF THE PROGRAM, WHAT YOUR GOAL IS, AND FIND THE LOCATIONS THAT ARE APPROPRIATE FOR THAT AND THEN STAY THERE AND MAKE THAT SITUATION WORK.

>> Lou: NOW, AT PETE'S PLACE, HAVE YOU SEEN AN INCREASE IN PEOPLE SEEKING HELP FOR THIS SHOWER PLAN SINCE ITS STARTED AND HAS THAT HELPED BUILD TRUST WITHIN THE COMMUNITY?

>> Butler: I BELIEVE SO.

YOU KNOW, PETE'S PLACE, THE INTERFAITH COMMUNITY SHELTER AT PETE'S PLACE OFFERS SHOWERS, HYGIENE SERVICES DURING THE WEEK.

THEY DON'T ON MONDAY AND THURSDAY, THAT'S WHY WE DO THE MOBILE OUTREACH ON THOSE DAYS.

THERE'S LOT OF -- IT'S NOT EVERYBODY CAN GET A SHOWER THERE BECAUSE THE LINES CAN BE REALLY LONG AND THERE'S A LIMITED TIME THAT THEY CAN PROVIDE THIS SERVICE.

SO, A LOT OF THEM HAVE STOPPED EVEN USING THAT SERVICE AND THEY JUST FIND US.

THEY FIND WHERE WE ARE BECAUSE OUR LINES AREN'T LONG.

THE WAIT IS USUALLY NOT MORE THAN 20 MINUTES TO GET YOUR SHOWER.

WE OFFER 15-MINUTE SHOWERS.

SO WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE JUST CHOSEN NOT TO BE IN THE CROWD OF PEOPLE BECAUSE THAT CAN BE TRIGGERING.

IT CAN BE TRIGGERING TO ME TO BE IN A CROWD OF PEOPLE.

SO THEY FIND OUR MOBILE UNIT.

IT'S JUST ANOTHER OPTION.

>> Lou: SO HOW HAS THE HOUSED COMMUNITY IN SANTA FE RESPONDED TO THIS?

HAVE YOU GOTTEN ANY POSITIVE FEEDBACK, NEGATIVE FEEDBACK?

>> Butler: OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, THE HOMELESS SITUATION EVERYWHERE NOT JUST IN SANTA FE IS A CHALLENGE.

I MEAN WE ALL KNOW THAT.

IT'S MAKING THE NEWS EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME.

AND WE WERE FULLY PREPARED WHEN WE ROLLED OUT THIS SYSTEM FOR PUSHBACK.

AND WE HAD OUR PREPARED SPEECHES TO ADDRESS THIS WHEN IT HAPPENED AND IT HASN'T HAPPENED.

NOT ONE TIME HAVE WE HAD ANYBODY THAT'S COME AND APPROACHED US AND SAID THEY DIDN'T WANT US IN THE AREA.

NOT ONE SINGLE TIME.

AND I'M NOT EXAGGERATING.

NOT ONE TIME.

WE'VE HAD ALL POSITIVE.

WE'VE HAD PEOPLE SHOW UP WITH CASH DONATIONS TO US.

WE'VE HAD EVERY -- TODAY WE HAD A CASH DONATION.

WE'VE HAD THREE OTHER PEOPLE STOP BY JUST TO THANK US FOR BEING THERE AND THOUGHT IT WAS A GREAT ASSET TO THE COMMUNITY.

ZERO PUSHBACK AT ALL.

AND LIKE I SAID, WE WERE PREPARED FOR IT AND WE DIDN'T GET IT.

IT'S BEEN GREATLY RECEIVED.

AND IT'S BEEN REALLY NICE.

WE'VE HAD PEOPLE BRING US DRINKS.

WE WEREN'T READY FOR ANY OF THAT, BUT IT'S BEEN WONDERFUL.

THE COMMUNITY HAS BEEN SUPER.

>> Lou: ALL RIGHT, JAMES BUTLER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Butler: THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

WE LOVE TALKING ABOUT OUR PROGRAM AND I HOPE THIS CAN ROLL OUT NOT JUST IN BERNALILLO COUNTY, BUT STATEWIDE.

>> Lou: UNDERSTOOD.

THANK YOU.

>> Butler: THANK YOU.

>> Lou: THANKS AGAIN TO JAMES BUTLER FOR STOPPING BY.

RETAIL CRIME IN NEW MEXICO, IT'S BEEN AN ABOVE-THE-FOLD STORY FOR YEARS NOW.

THROUGHOUT THE LAST FEW LEGISLATIVE SESSIONS, GOVERNOR LUJAN GRISHAM HAS PUSHED FOR TOUGHER LAWS ON RETAIL THEFT AND IT WAS ONE OF THE DRIVING FORCES BEHIND HER UNSUCCESSFUL EMERGENCY SPECIAL SESSION THIS SUMMER.

ANOTHER VOICE SUPPORTING THE GOVERNOR, IN THIS ARENA ANYWAY, HAS BEEN THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL'S EDITORIAL BOARD.

THAT INCLUDES EDITOR PATRICK ETHRIDGE.

FOLLOWING THE ABRUPT END TO THE GOVERNOR'S SPECIAL SESSION, THE BOARD PUBLISHED A SCATHING RETORT WITH A HEADLINE THAT READ, QUOTE, NEW MEXICO DEMOCRATS APPEAR TO CARE MORE ABOUT THE CRIMINALS THAN THEIR VICTIMS, END QUOTE.

TWO MONTHS LATER, ETHRIDGE'S FUTURE WITH THE PAPER IS UNCLEAR AS HE SERVES JAIL TIME FOR A RECENT ARREST FOR SHOPLIFTING.

IN THIS NEXT SEGMENT, JEFF'S BACK AT THE DESK TO ASK GWYNETH DOLAND AND KELLY GOLIGHTLEY HOW THIS MIGHT INFLUENCE THE OVERALL CONVERSATION AROUND RETAIL CRIME IN OUR STATE, BOTH BY ELECTED OFFICIALS AND THOSE REPORTING ON IT.

>> Jeff: KELLY, GWYNETH, WELCOME BACK.

WE'VE ALL READ THE COVERAGE OF ETHRIDGE'S ARREST, THE CHARGING DOCUMENTS, OR BOTH.

I'M SURE WE CAN IMAGINE THE STRESS OF SHOPPING AT A RIO RANCHO WALMART WITH TWO PRE-TEEN BOYS.

YOU CAN ALMOST FEEL THE HECTIC VIBE COMING THROUGH THE OFFICER'S POORLY-WRITTEN CRIMINAL COMPLAINT.

KELLY, I'M NOT GOING TO ASK YOU TO CRAWL INSIDE PATRICK ETHRIDGE'S HEAD, BUT I DO WANT TO ASK IF YOU HAVE BEEN SUMMONSED TO COURT AND CHARGED WITH A CRIME, WOULDN'T IT BE SMART TO HIRE A LAWYER BEFORE YOU SHOW UP FOR YOUR COURT DATE?

>> Golightley: WELL, AS A LAWYER, YES.

OBVIOUSLY, RIGHT?

WE DON'T KNOW -- THAT FIRST APPEARANCE IS USUALLY WHERE YOU PUT IN YOUR GUILTY, NOT GUILTY, OKAY?

SO PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND PLEAD NOT GUILTY AND WE CAN INVESTIGATE.

YOU CAN ALWAYS CHANGE YOUR PLEA, RIGHT?

SO HE WENT IN AND PROBABLY WAS LIKE, YEAH, I DIDN'T SCAN SOME ITEMS, GUILTY.

WHAT'S PROBLEMATIC ABOUT THIS IS WE DID NOT DO ANY INVESTIGATION FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE.

AND THAT'S WHAT YOU NEED THE ATTORNEY TO DO.

YOU NEED SOMEONE WHO SPEAKS THAT LANGUAGE TO BE ABLE TO GO IN, INVESTIGATE YOUR CASE, AND SEE IF IT WAS EVEN DONE CORRECTLY.

SEE IF THE FACTS EVEN MEET THE CHARGE.

DID YOU INTEND TO DO THAT?

THERE MAY HAVE BEEN A LOT OF DEFENSES THAT WE DON'T KNOW BECAUSE HE JUST WALKED IN WITHOUT REPRESENTATION.

>> Jeff: HOW MIGHT THIS HAVE GONE DIFFERENTLY IF HE HAD LAWYERED UP FIRST?

>> Golightley: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD HAVE HAD HIM PLEA NOT GUILTY.

THEN I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THE DISCOVERY.

I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THE VIDEO FROM WALMART, I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THE LAPEL OF THE OFFICER TALKING WITH THE CLIENT.

I WOULD HAVE MET WITH MY CLIENT TO FIND OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON.

I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO INTERVIEW THE WALMART- >> Jeff: THE LOSS PREVENTION OFFICER.

>> Golightley: -- LOSS PREVENTION OFFICER, THANK YOU.

AND THE OFFICER THEMSELVES TO SEE WHAT THEY THOUGHT THEY TRACKED.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS HE WAS EXTREMELY COOPERATIVE.

YOU KNOW, DIDN'T APPEAR SHAKEN OR NERVOUS.

YOU KNOW, OTHER THAN JUST THE GENERAL I'M BEING QUESTIONED.

>> Jeff: YEAH.

>> Golightley: SO HIS DEMEANOR DIDN'T SEEM TO SUGGEST SOMEBODY WHO MAY HAVE EVEN DONE IT.

WE ALSO SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN SOCIETY THAT ARE GIVEN FREE LEGAL REPRESENTATION WHO ARE IN THESE SAME SITUATIONS.

BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

AND IT COULD RESULT IN SEVERE PENALTIES.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM UNTIL IT HAPPENS TO THEM.

UNTIL IT HAPPENS TO THEIR FAMILY.

>> Doland: BUT YOU KNOW WHO DOES?

PEOPLE WHO'VE BEEN COPS AND COURTS REPORTERS.

THIS IS THE JOB THAT JEFF DID WHILE HE WAS STILL AT UNM AS A STUDENT, RIGHT?

AND THIS IS VERY COMMONLY THE FIRST JOB THAT MY STUDENTS GET AT THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL.

SO TO SEE THE EDITOR OF THAT PAPER NOT HAVE A BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF THE ENTRY-LEVEL JOB, IT'S SHOCKING TO ME.

>> Jeff: GWYNETH, I'LL GET BACK TO YOU IN JUST A SECOND, KELLY.

I WANT TO RETURN TO SOME OF THE HYPOCRISY WE'RE DISCUSSING IN THE PREVIOUS SEGMENT.

I KNOW YOU MAY NOT BE THE AVERAGE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL READER, BUT I'M CURIOUS YOUR TAKE ON HOW THEY MIGHT PERCEIVE THIS NEWS BASED ON WHAT THEY'VE BEEN FED IN THE OPINION PAGES ABOUT THIS ISSUE?

>> Doland: YEAH, I AM A PRINT SUBSCRIBER.

I PAY FOR THE PAPER.

I'M THE ONLY ONE OF MY GENERATION I KNOW WHO DOES THAT, RIGHT?

SO -- THE NON-JOURNALISTS.

>> Jeff: RIGHT.

>> Doland: SO THE AVERAGE JOURNAL READER IS MUCH OLDER.

AND I THINK THEY HAVE BEEN TRAINED ON THE MESSAGES THAT THE JOURNAL HAS BEEN PUBLISHING FOR DECADES.

AND POOR PATRICK ETHRIDGE, I THINK THIS GUY PROBABLY WAS -- THERE'S A REALLY GOOD CHANCE HE WAS JUST SUPER FRAZZLED WITH THESE KIDS IN A WALMART.

WHO HASN'T WANTED TO STRANGLE THEIR OWN CHILD IN THE SELF-CHECKOUT LANE, RIGHT?

BUT I THINK HE'S STUCK.

HIS PROBLEM IS THAT HE'S STUCK IN THE MILIEU THAT THIS PAPER CREATED OVER THE DECADES.

>> Jeff: YEAH.

>> Doland: SO, I THINK THERE'S PROBABLY A LOT OF TSK-TSKING AND FINGER-WAGGING AND HORROR OVER THE CRIME THIS PERSON DID.

I THINK THE AVERAGE JOURNAL READER PROBABLY HAS NO IDEA ABOUT ANYTHING THAT YOU'VE SAID.

AND THEY THINK THAT THIS GUY IS A BAD GUY WHO DID SOMETHING TERRIBLE.

>> Golightley: SPEAKING ON THAT, HE MAY HAVE THOUGHT THAT HIMSELF.

I MEAN, IF THIS IS THE CULTURE HE'S LIVING IN, MAYBE HE DIDN'T THINK HE DESERVED TO HAVE REPRESENTATION.

>> Doland: I'M SURE HE WAS EMBARRASSED, MORTIFIED, ASHAMED.

>> Golightley: HE THOUGHT I DIDN'T SCAN SOMETHING, I'M JUST GOING TO ADMIT TO IT.

>> Jeff: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS SENTENCE FOR A MINUTE.

HE RECEIVED A 90-DAY SENTENCE.

THE JUDGE SUSPENDED ALL BUT TEN OF THOSE DAYS.

HE IS INCARCERATED AS WE SIT HERE AND HAVE THIS CONVERSATION RIGHT NOW.

WHEN I SPOKE TO THE GUY WHO IS REPRESENTING NOW THAT HE'S BEEN LOCKED UP, HE SAID THAT A 10-DAY JAIL SENTENCE FOR A CASE LIKE THIS WAS INCREDIBLY UNUSUAL.

I AM INTERESTED, NOT ONLY IN YOUR EXPERIENCE IN TERMS OF SENTENCING FOR SHOPLIFTING CASES, BUT ALSO WHAT HAPPENS TO A PERSON WHEN THEY'RE IN JAIL FOR 10 DAYS, ESPECIALLY SOMEBODY THAT DOESN'T MAKE $120,000 A YEAR LIKE PATRICK ETHRIDGE?

>> Golightley: SO WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS EARLIER, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS SO CONCERNING IS WHO IS ABSORB TEN DAYS OF NOT GETTING PAID?

OKAY.

SO NOT ONLY ARE YOU MISSING TWO WEEKS, WHICH IS HALF A MONTH, YOU PROBABLY HAVE LOST YOUR JOB BECAUSE YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO KEEP YOUR JOB.

WHICH MEANS YOU CAN'T MAKE YOUR MORTGAGE, OR YOUR RENT.

YOU CAN'T MAKE YOUR PAYMENT ON YOUR CAR.

WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENS TO THESE PEOPLE?

THEY ARE LIVING WITH FAMILY, THEY'RE COUCH SURFING, THEY'RE TRYING TO FIND A NEW JOB WITH A CRIMINAL HISTORY ON THEIR RECORD NOW.

YOU HAVE CREATED A HIGHER CRIME RECIDIVISM THAN YOU EVER WOULD HAVE HAD YOU JUST GIVEN THEM A SLAP ON THE WRIST AND COMMUNITY SERVICE.

>> Doland: I DON'T THINK WE'RE SEEING HYPOCRISY YET.

BUT THE DANGER OF HYPOCRISY IS THE JOURNAL SAYING OH, BUT THIS GUY IS SPECIAL AND DIFFERENT, RIGHT?

AND THAT'S A TERRIBLE POSITION BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BE KIND TO THIS GUY.

YOU WANT TO UNDERSTAND IT WAS A MISTAKE, HE WAS STRESSED, WHATEVER IT WAS YOU WANT TO GIVE HIM A SECOND CHANCE BUT NOW YOU'RE TRAPPED BY YOUR OWN PAPER, NOT EVER HAVING DONE THAT TO ANYBODY ELSE.

>> Jeff: SO I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE NOTION OF INCARCERATION, GENERALLY, WHEN IT COMES TO AN ISSUE LIKE THIS.

FOR SOMETHING LIKE SHOPLIFTING.

WE AGREED IN THE LAST SEGMENT THAT RETAIL CRIME IS A REAL THING IN THIS CITY AND IN THIS STATE, BUT IS INCARCERATION, A 10-DAY JAIL SENTENCE, WHATEVER, IS THAT ANY KIND OF A VIABLE SOLUTION TO THE BIGGER PROBLEM, PARTICULARLY GIVEN THAT THESE TEN DAYS IN JAIL ARE GOING TO COST TAXPAYERS ABOUT 2500 BUCKS?

>> Golightley: WELL, WE HAVE LEARNED THROUGH STATISTICS THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE INCARCERATED HAVE AN 87% RECIDIVISM RATE.

SO, WE'RE NOT GETTING -- JAIL AND PRISON AREN'T STOPPING CRIME.

IT'S JUST NOT HAPPENING.

SO, WE NEED TO COME UP WITH FOCUSES FOR WHAT CAN.

THERE IS THERAPY FOR PEOPLE WHO SHOPLIFT BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE GET A REALLY BIG RUSH FROM DOING IT AND IT'S A PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUE.

THERE IS THERAPY FOR DRUG ADDICTION.

WE CAN PUT THIS MONEY THAT WE'RE USING TO HOUSE PEOPLE INTO DIFFERENT THERAPIES THAT COULD ACTUALLY BENEFIT OUR COMMUNITY.

BECAUSE WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE INCARCERATED, WHEN THEY COME OUT, THEY HAVE PTSD.

THEY HAVE LIVED IN A KIND OF ENVIRONMENT THAT WE CANNOT EVEN IMAGINE.

AND A LOT OF THEM ARE FOR NON-VIOLENT OFFENSES LIKE DRUG OFFENSES.

WE HAVEN'T HELPED SOCIETY.

IT'S COSTING US A LOT OF MONEY, BUT WE'RE NOT CHANGING THE BEHAVIOR AND WE'RE NOT STOPPING THE PROBLEM.

>> Doland: THIS COULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD CASE FOR RESTORATIVE JUSTICE.

TO HAVE THIS GUY DO SOMETHING, SPEAK TO THE PUBLIC.

DIANA DURAN WAS ON THE LECTURE CIRCUIT FOR A LONG TIME AFTER HER -- >> Jeff: FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE.

>> Doland: FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE.

I MEAN, I THINK HE WOULD HAVE HAD A POWERFUL MOUTHPIECE TO TALK ABOUT THIS.

>> Jeff: SOME OF THOSE, WE'RE GOING TO RUN OUT OF TIME IN JUST A SECOND, AND I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD.

SOME OF THOSE SOLUTIONS THAT KELLY WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT, DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE NICE TO SEE SOME OF THOSE TOPICS AND ISSUES EXPLORED IN THE PAGES OF THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL?

>> Doland: YEAH, I MEAN THIS IS WHAT IS A BIG CURRENT IN JOURNALISM TODAY IS TALKING ABOUT SOLUTIONS.

I THINK IT'S A HARDER THING TO DO.

IT'S A HIGHER LEVEL THING TO DO.

IT -- MAYBE IT SELLS FEWER PAPERS, RIGHT?

BUT IT ME IT SEEMS LIKE IF THIS IS MY FAMILY PAPER, IF THIS IS MY NAME ON THE MASTHEAD, IF THIS IS MY LEGACY I'M LOOKING AT, FOR ME THE DECISION IS EITHER I HAVE TO INVEST IN THIS THING, HIRE SOMEONE WHO'S REALLY EXPERIENCED, REALLY TALENTED, REALLY READY TO GO AND TAKE THIS PAPER IN THE DIRECTION IT NEEDS TO GO, OR LET IT GO.

LET SOMEONE ELSE TAKE IT OVER.

NOT SOME HEDGE FUND THAT'S GOING TO CHOP IT UP FOR PARTS.

IT'S ALREADY BASICALLY THERE, RIGHT?

BUT GIVE IT TO SOMEONE ELSE.

EITHER DO IT, OR LET SOMEONE ELSE DO IT.

>> Jeff: THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO STOP, UNFORTUNATELY.

GWYNETH DOLAND, KELLY GOLIGHTLEY, THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH FOR THE CHAT.

>> Lou: THANKS TO JEFF AND HIS GUESTS.

AND THANKS TO EVERYONE ELSE WHO CONTRIBUTED TO THE SHOW.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.