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>>Nash: This week on New Mexico in Focus, we wrap up our interviews with the candidates running for Albuquerque Mayor.

>> Armijo : I understand public administration.

I understand how the department works, how the money works, how it flows, what we need to do to get stuff done.

>> Sanchez: We're looking at bringing back institutional knowledge which has been basically wiped out.

>>Nash: Then we head to the state fair.

I mean, talk of it moving locations and get an update on the plan to redevelop Expo New Mexico.

New Mexico in Focus starts now.

>>Nash: Thanks for joining us.

I'm Nash Jones.

I don't know about you, but I hit the state fair three times this year and only one of those was for work.

I had my annual chili relleno corndog, or maybe a few.

I won some stuffed animals, rode some rides.

I even pet a tiny Highland cow.

And like many of you, I'm sure I have gone to the State Fair since I was a kid.

Always at Expo New Mexico in southeast Albuquerque's International district.

But since Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham announced a plan to consider redeveloping that site back in December, there's been chatter about future fairs taking place somewhere else.

Later this hour, we head to the fair, which packed up on Sunday, to get the opinions of patrons and longtime vendors.

Then, I sit down with former Albuquerque Mayor Marty Chavez, who█s spearheading that redevelopment effort, to get an update on its progress.

Indigenously Positive, our collaboration with New Mexico in Depth also returns this week with a look at a play about the Pueblo Revolt of 1680.

But it's not historical nonfiction, it's a comedy with a nuanced portrayal of indigenous experiences that explores queer native identity and the way forward after decolonization.

But first, over the last couple of weeks, we have been introducing you to the candidates running to lead the city of Albuquerque.

This week, I sit down with the last two who agreed to appear on In Focus, Mayling Armijo and City Councilor Louie Sanchez.

We'll start off with Councilor Sanchez.

City Councilor Louie Sanchez, thanks so much for joining us.

>> Sanchez: Oh, thank you for having me Nash I really appreciate being here.

>> Nash: Well, so you've been a city councilor for district one on Albuquerque's West side since 2021, but now you're running for citywide office.

I'd like to give our viewers a chance to get to know you a little bit more.

And I'm going to ask you about your resume, but I'd like to start with you personally.

So what about your life experience prepares you to be the mayor of Albuquerque?

>> Sanchez: I've never left Albuquerque.

I've always been here my whole life.

And I've always contributed, to Albuquerque.

And I think, being raised on the West side was just an amazing experience.

And I'm so glad that I was able to meet so many people.

And we've still remained friends and very, very close ties on the West side, which has been which has been really good.

I ended up becoming a Albuquerque City police officer after being a truck driver and a Teamsters Union member, believe it or not.

>> Nash: Yeah, so let's get into your professional background.

You mentioned you're a small business owner.

You were a longtime police officer.

How does your resume and you can expand upon what it what it includes, reflect your values?

>> Sanchez: Well, quick story.

When I was a brand new rookie police officer, my very first day on the job.

I pulled over a DWI offender with my training officer.

And during that experience, the individual was drunk.

So we took him to jail.

I did all the paperwork, or, of course, it took me hours.

And then right after we did the paperwork, a month later, I showed up in court and I could not believe what happened to me.

My integrity was tested immediately.

I was 22 years old, and the court clerk in that courtroom told me to dismiss the case.

And I said, why are we dismissing this case?

And he says, Because I'm telling you to, I'm the clerk in this courtroom, and I'm telling you that you need to dismiss this case.

And I said, why?

Why are we dismissing this case?

And he says, because that's the way it works.

If I tell you to dismiss a case, you do it.

And I says, well, I just took my oath of office one month ago, and I'm not jeopardizing that.

So, no, I will not dismiss this case and we will go to trial.

And he says, if you don't dismiss this case, you will never win a case in this courtroom ever again.

And you will have trouble at APD.

And I just could not believe what I was hearing.

So right then, at a 20, as a 22 year old, I had to make a decision right then and there of a lifetime and say, no, I will not be compromised.

And I will make sure that I do the right thing my whole career.

And so at that point, we went through with the trial and I lost the trial.

But I knew I would based on the circumstances.

And then, but I kept my integrity, and I did the right thing.

And I have several, instances of maintaining my integrity and doing the right thing many, many years at APD and influenced a lot of people to make sure that they did the right thing during their careers.

>> Nash: Okay.

And, well, you served in the city's legislative branch, you█re a city councilor, and you've run a business.

How would you respond to folks who have concerns about you running something as large and complex as the city of Albuquerque?

>> Sanchez: Well, I've run very large and complex, situations already.

So when I rose through the ranks, at APD, I was in charge of the foothills substation.

So, I rose through the ranks.

I became a detective, a sergeant, a lieutenant.

And then I was put on as acting commander of the Foothills substation.

And so I did.

I ran a multimillion dollar budget with, numerous officers there, and tied straight in also, I had direct experience at a high level working in the city government under Mayor Marty Chavez, where I was actually the head of his security detail.

And at that location, I was able to work and operate and assist the administration at a very high level.

And so I saw every single inner working of the system.

I knew how the directors worked.

I saw how the mayor has to work and how the mayor had to operate.

And I saw that for six years, and I was very, very involved in the administration to the point where, where some of my decisions actually came through.

>> Nash: When Albuquerque Police Chief Harold Medina said that there is a perception among city residents that there's a crime crisis in this city, driven by news reports primarily.

You wrote that, quote, “This isn't just a perception.

It is our reality.” However, crime rates are dropping according to both APD and FBI data.

Are you saying you don't buy that?

>> Sanchez: I don't buy that.

I don't buy that at all.

And the reason why I don't buy that is because when we, as police officers would be out there working the streets, we used to give it what we call the grandmother test.

If your grandmother doesn't feel safe, then the perception of safety is not there.

So right now, currently as a business owner, I can walk outside of the streets and see 40 to 60 drug deals a day.

I watch prostitution happening every day.

I call the police almost every day and nothing changes for me.

And I talked to several other business owners that are up and down Central Avenue as well.

And all you have to do is drive up and down central and see exactly what I'm talking about.

You can drive down San Mateo, Louisiana.

Anything that offshoot, any street, major street that offshoots, central, like Coors.

though as >> Nash: Is this the case though of >> Sanchez: A large amount of drug dealing and criminal activity.

>> Nash: Is this the case of perception lagging behind the data?

>> Sanchez: Well, we also have another issue is people are not calling the police because they know that nothing's going to happen.

That person that they get called on, and I've done it myself.

I've called the police, and police have not shown up.

I've called the police in reference to, in my experience as a police officer, should have been an arrest or a citation.

And that's not being done.

>> Nash: So you█re saying that may skew the data.

Are you saying that data is inaccurate?

>> Sanchez: The data is inaccurate because the amount of police presence is not what we need.

I mean, is not what we need.

And then we need to make sure that we're accurately reporting the data.

And basically they can manipulate any numbers that they feel they need to.

>> Nash: Are you saying they, the city has manipulated their crime data or falsified those numbers?

>> Sanchez: There's a very, very good chance that they have, based on the fact of what we're seeing out on the streets and still witnessing.

>> Nash: Do you have any evidence that they have falsified the crime data?

>> Sanchez: I do know for a fact that people are not calling the police to get, so if the people aren't calling the police to report the crime because the police aren't showing up.

>> Nash: That's an accusation that the numbers are not necessarily representative of the amount of crime that's actually happened.

That's different than falsifying data.

>> Sanchez: Okay, well, if you say that, then it what I'm saying is that you can't get accurate data if you're not making the accurate amount of contacts with the public.

>> Nash: Okay, I think I understand what you're saying.

You were an APD officer from 1988 to 2014, retiring the year the department went under the Department of Justice's oversight, with that consent decree for it's unconstitutional use of excessive force.

You spent a good chunk of your APD service in the Special Investigations Division.

>> Sanchez: That's correct.

>> Nash: Which was a hotbed for some of the worst violations uncovered by the DOJ investigation.

Did you ever see policing that bothered you at that time?

>> Sanchez: Yes, and I did report it.

There was a point in time within APD, where I saw some activity that was not correct.

And at that point, I was threatened by certain supervisors that I was to leave the Special Investigations Division or that I would be forced out and not forced out of the Special Investigations Office, but forced out of the city.

And it was at that point I responded by going straight to the chief of police and exposing the contact that took place and the things that were going on.

And at that point, there was an investigation done, and there was a big cleaning house, and that you can talk to people that were in SID, at the time.

And what happened in reference to that after it all happened, there was people who were forced to retire.

People who were demoted, people who were literally fired.

And at that point, other officers, came to me and said, “Louie, I'm so glad that you did what you did because you saved my career.

You know, I was dabbling in where I shouldn't have been.

And I told the truth and the investigations, and I just so glad that I didn't get any deeper in this thing.” >> Nash: Did you ever encounter any of that retribution that you were fearful of?

>> Sanchez: I did, but, you know I don't want to talk about that because I have had some issues and, they're concerning to me.

>> Nash: Are the supervisors that you reported to still at the department?

>> Sanchez: The supervisors I reported to, no.

They█re long gone.

>> Nash: That you reported the issues to.

>> Sanchez: They're long gone, they█ve all retired since.

>> Nash: DOJ oversight ended this year after 11 years.

And we are also seeing at APD a fallout of a decades long DWI, corruption and bribery scandal.

To date, seven APD officers have pleaded guilty to federal charges in that case.

What would you do differently from previous mayors, including Mayor Tim Keller, to instill a culture of accountability at APD?

>> Sanchez: And that's the thing.

You have to have a culture of accountability.

When I was a police sergeant, that was my first chance of actually being involved in a situation where I supervised people.

And one of the main things that I did was make sure that I held everybody accountable.

There was no drama in my squads and everybody was treated, the same.

And also expectations were out there.

What needs to happen now is we need to bring that that kind of a culture back.

And we need to make sure that these people understand these officers and and city employees understand that we work for the citizens of Albuquerque.

>> Nash: How do you do that?

>> Sanchez: You basically instill the culture.

I have a business, a small business right now.

And having my small business, my employees, I can be here right now because I know that my employees are going to be handling my business, just as I would, because I've instilled that culture.

I've only, if you can instill the right and correct culture, and that's a culture of having a conscience and doing the right things each and every day.

Then you can actually grow your department, you can grow your business, and you can grow your client base.

>> Nash: You have said that you would, replace Police Chief Harold Medina.

>> Sanchez: Yes, he knows that.

>> Nash: And so what would that look like?

Who would you want to replace him?

>> Sanchez: Well, what I would do is I would replace them with a professional interim chief who I've already have an idea who I'm going to do.

Most of my cabinet right now is already built.

I can, I can't say the names of the of all the folks because it could, you know, if they're working other places, it could jeopardize their jobs as well.

But what we're looking at is we're looking at bringing back institutional knowledge, which has been basically wiped out by political appointees in the city of Albuquerque's administration currently.

>> Nash: Okay, so somebody who has that institutional knowledge, who's been at the city, maybe even at the police department before?

>> Sanchez: That's correct.

>> Nash: Okay.

With APD trust amongst the community in APD damaged by some of these scandals that I've mentioned and, and the excessive use of force that the DOJ found.

What would you say to a voter who has trust issues with you because of your long time, association with the police department?

>> Sanchez: Well, every single time that I went to work there was working for the public.

I was under a microscope and there most everybody is.

And it's hard.

And you live in a glass bubble.

You live in a glass bubble in your in your home, in your neighborhood.

If you live in an apartment, everybody knows who you are.

You can take a police car home.

So you live in that glass bubble each and every day.

In order to hide that.

It's got to take a huge amount of skill to to hide something like that.

My life's pretty much an open book.

My family knows that.

And it all starts with how you treat your family and your value system.

Right now, we have all the institutional knowledge leaving and retiring.

And the rent, some of them are ready to come back because they have been pushed into a closet and they're 20, 30 years of institutional knowledge is not being recognized.

And our number one function as city government is to make sure that the community is safe and that all city services are functioning properly and serving the community.

>>Nash: Now you are seeking to unseat two term, going for three terms, Mayor Tim Keller, the city council and the mayor, I don't think it's any secret have had a fairly contentious relationship, since its balance shifted to the right, the year that you were elected, in 2021, you replaced a more progressive councilor in, Lansana that year.

You have called Keller█s administration a failure.

How so?

>> Sanchez: Well, if you look at the fact that we have the crime that we're seeing on the streets, I mean, every single person out here can literally drive down Central Avenue.

Drive down, cause drive down Fourth Street, drive down Louisiana, drive down San Mateo, and they'll see the amount of drug dealing and encampments that are out there.

You know, yesterday went to an event, not yesterday, but Saturday I went to an event downtown.

And when I was walking through the, the parking structure at City Hall, I had to be careful not to step on human feces.

Those kinds of things never happened in the past.

They never happened in any other administration except for this administration.

When you have to be careful of where you step.

And I saw needles.

There as well.

So this drug dealing that we're seeing on the street is rampant, rampant.

And if you see 40 drug deals in front of your business every single day, then something is definitely failing.

And that is our city government and the current leadership.

>> Nash: You can watch my full conversation with Councilor Sanchez on the New Mexico InFocus YouTube channel.

Now let's finish up our weeks long series on the race for Albuquerque mayor with candidate Mayling Armijo.

The political newcomer has served as the deputy manager of Sandoval County.

She also worked in economic development for both Bernalillo County and the state.

A Navy reservist, Armijo was deployed shortly after announcing her candidacy.

Well, she has since returned home and is hustling to get her name and ideas out to Albuquerque voters, Mayling Armijo.

Thanks so much for joining us.

>> Armijo: Thank you for having me.

>> Nash: You█re not new to government, but you are new to politics, more or less.

And so I want to start by just kind of having you introduce yourself to our viewers.

Let's start with your personal background.

What about your life experience situates you well to lead the city of Albuquerque.

>> Armijo: I think my military experience and being in management for the last 20 years has really positioned me for the job.

I've I've commanded many sailors and taken on large budgets.

I was a, I worked as a controller to the commanding officer in the, in the only forward operating base in Africa.

>> Nash: So a Navy reservist.

>> Armijo: A Navy reservist.

Yes And so and then, you know, with working with Bernalillo County and then Sandoval County, I was the deputy county manager there.

So I understand public administration.

I understand how the department works, how the money works, how it flows, what we need to do to get stuff done.

>> Nash: And you've also, specialized in economic development.

Is that right?

>> Armijo: Yeah.

>> Armijo: You want to expand on that.

>> Armijo: Yeah, so I started actually under Richardson working in economic development.

I was in that department for three years.

And that was fun.

I learned a lot.

Richardson was unique in that he used a lot of money from the Permanent Fund, which no governor has been able to do since, to invest in economic development projects.

And so I helped deliver or expend those funds for the governor and and then I went over to Bernalillo County, where we had to, in a local government level, work with the state and the feds in order to deliver incentives or help us attract, companies to come in.

And we worked really well together, and we managed to do 1.4 billion in private investment and helped create over 5000 jobs.

So and that was just in a 12 year period.

>> Nash: How does your resume reflect your values?

>> Armijo: I think it shows that and community are important.

You know, serving your country, serving your community is important, and giving a little bit about of your intelligence and your strengths to the job and and yeah, for sure, I was getting paid to do those things.

But it is a sacrifice because there are things you can do.

You can make you can make more money doing what I do on the private side.

And but I enjoyed seeing the results that public service produced.

>> Nash: And, well, you've worked in leadership positions at the county and state levels, as you mentioned.

And you're now the executive director of a nonprofit.

How would you respond to someone who has concerns about your preparedness to lead something as large as the city of Albuquerque?

>> Armijo: I feel I'm very prepared.

I have looked at what the city budget currently is.

There are things that the city is doing that I wouldn't do or that I wouldn't say, okay, let's keep doing that.

So I understand how public administration works.

I know how to lead and understand how management and a human resources work.

So I have all the qualities needed in a leader.

I have them.

And is it a is it a lot as you expressed?

Absolutely.

It's a lot.

But I'm ready to take that on.

>> Nash: You mentioned you have some objections to the budget.

What are those?

>> Armijo: It's really large.

And so my concern is, is that the budget doesn't address the federal cuts that we're going to have as a sanctuary city.

You know, we we have to be prepared for those particular cuts, and we have to be able to help our community that are that have relied on that federal funding are now not going to get it.

And I understand that we should expect the state to step in and do some of that.

But I also expect that the local government should do that as well.

>> Nash: You mentioned that Albuquerque has an immigrant friendly resolution.

It prevents basically city resources from being used to enforce federal immigration law.

Mayor Keller reaffirmed and expanded that policy in a recent executive order, which allows city police to confirm if it is ICE.

In fact, that's operating in a particular neighborhood upon request.

In addition to maybe putting money aside in the city budget.

How would your administration approach a relationship with immigrant Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials?

>> Armijo: I think we technically need to understand what ICE is asking us to do.

You know, is it I. I almost feel when I talk to APD officers, they their concern is that when they don't want to do search and seizures, they don't want to go and be like, where are your papers?

Like that's not something APD officer want or anything to do.

But when they do arrest an illegal immigrant, it flags their system when they're at the transfer station.

And then the transfer station is where they either take them to MDC or they take them to court, or the district attorney decides, no, let's just release them because it was a petty crime, whatever the case may be.

But it also pings them that this is an illegal immigrant in the system.

And because we're a sanctuary city, they do not call ICE.

And so if it's just a matter of calling ICE on an illegal immigrant that we've arrested many times, if this is a first offense, I would want to make sure they got due process because I know, I know, we've been told stories that ICE doesn't do that.

And so but if there's multiple offenses and the and we're getting pinged that they're an illegal immigrant, then let's constructively figure out a way to work with ICE.

So they feel that there's a little bit of give.

And we don't we can somehow keep our federal funding safe, >> Nash: Particularly with, a immigrant without documentation who's been accused or accused of a crime.

>> Armijo: Several crimes.

Yes.

Yeah.

Like if it's a first offense because my concern is due process is ICE giving them due process?

And and that I think we've heard many stories where that's not the case.

So if it's a first offense, let's make sure they get due process.

But if they if we're if they're part of that revolving door of crime, then why are we why are we protecting them?

>> Nash: U.S.

Justice Department included Albuquerque on the list of so-called sanctuary jurisdictions.

And, Attorney General Pam Bondi said in a statement that, the department will continue bringing litigation against sanctuary jurisdictions and work closely with the Department of Homeland Security to eradicate these harmful policies across the country.

What would you do if the Trump administration were to target Albuquerque with litigation, withholding funds if you were mayor?

>> Armijo: Well hire really good I mean, and that's part of the plan.

We really need to understand what it is exactly.

She's threatening.

I read the letter that Pam Bondi wrote, and I felt like it was a lot of conjecture, like, we're going to do this if we're going to do it.

Like there was no real pointed law cited in what she was accusing us of.

And I think that's just a fear tactic that this administration may or may be using.

And so I think we need a good attorney and we need to understand what that means.

So that if litigation is where we're headed, then we we're in a position to do that.

To fight that.

Yeah.

>> Nash: Okay.

While crime rates are dropping in the city of Albuquerque, they remain a top concern for a lot of voters.

You're campaigning on the hashtag cleanup ABQ what does that mean to you?

>> Armijo: So I disagree that crime is dropping because I don't know anybody who has been not >> Nash: The statistics show that crime is dropping >> Armijo: Well, is it Mayor Keller█s statistics.?

>> Nash: well they're both from Albuquerque Police Department, but the FBI statistics do confirm it as well that, crime rates are down compared to the last several years.

This year.

>> Armijo: In what categories?

In all categories?

>> Nash: In most categories.

In all categories for APD.

In most categories for the FBI.

>> Armijo: So that's what I'm saying.

It's not that's not consistent across the board for both the FBI and APD.

>> Nash: Well they don't they don't really compare apples to apples, the FBI database.

You know, you have to break it down by type of crime.

Whereas the APD, statistics are structured slightly differently, but they are showing significant a statistically significant drop in crime rates, across the board in Albuquerque this year.

>> Armijo: Yeah.

I don't, I, I would say like let's just a agree to disagree on that one.

So I can answer your question.

So let's go back to your question.

>> Your hashtag clean up ABQ, What does it mean.

>> Armijo: So here's a couple of things.

You know, a lot of business owners that are in the downtown area, in the Nob Hill area are super, incredibly frustrated with the homeless and with the crime.

And so the, the cachet clean up Albuquerque is you want to be able to go to work, run your business in a clean environment and not worry about crime or homelessness or defecation or urination or vandalism or all of those things.

So what we what I want to do is bring back that safe and safety to the small businesses that are suffering from the end from to the from the rest to the residents as well.

>> Nash: How do you do that?

>> Armijo: Well, we have to recruit.

We need more officers.

We do.

They█re the highest paid officers in the region, and yet we still have a hard time recruiting.

Why is that?

Yeah, I has to be a moral issue.

People talk, you know, there are things like, I've been offered jobs with way more money.

And I'll ask people about that company and and they'll tell me, well, yeah, this person's like this, you know, if you're willing to put up with it, is it worth the money?

And I think that's the problem is that we don't have the reputation at APD that allows cops to be cops.

And so there's a morale and and I've talked to cops that have left other states.

And because their parents are still here and they've talked to me and they've said that they just it the morale was issue, they are too top heavy.

So there's a lot of things that need to be changed in order for us to, to boost up recruitment.

>> Nash: You're talking about low morale within the department.

>> Armijo: Yes >> Nash: that that may be the case.

There's also a trust issue with the community.

>> Armijo: Oh, absolutely.

>> Nash: And building trust with the Albuquerque community within APD is one of your goals, if elected mayor.

More than a decade of U.S.

Justice Department oversight.

Over, the Albuquerque Police Department for its, use of excessive force.

Has has just ended this year.

There's also the fallout from a decades long corruption and bribery scheme with the DWI officers.

Seven APD officers have pleaded guilty to federal crimes so far.

What would you do differently from the previous mayors to instill a culture of accountability at the Albuquerque Police Department?

>> Armijo: So, absolutely.

I mean, I think we need to go back to be cops, really.

You know, but in order to do that, we need more cops.

And we need to look at community policing policies and implementing them.

And and I'm not saying that they don't have those policies now, but the implementation of those policies do not seem to be effective with this leadership.

But we have you're right.

Trust and accountability is something we need to rebuild between APD and the community.

The the one of the challenges now is, is when people call in if they need APD.

Just the long wait times for that.

And so those are things like we have to we have to fix that.

We have to make it easier for people to get when they call the APD.

They get there's a response to their to their needs.

And so, I mean, it's going to be a process, but it starts with leadership.

>> Nash: Speaking of leadership, will you maintain Police Chief Harold Medina if you were elected mayor?

>> Nash: No, I would not.

>> Nash: And who would you look to replace him?

>> Armijo: I at this time, I don't know who I would look to replace him with.

I would probably put to an interim in within the APD department and then, put a committee together to to hire a proper police chief.

>> Nash: Okay.

You're seeking to unseat two term Mayor Tim Keller, who's running for reelection.

In a recent Albuquerque Journal opinion piece, you called his recent state of the city address, quote, a masterclass in political spin and characterized him as gaslighting the public.

How so?

>> Armijo: Well, I think he tell all the things he wants us to hear and believe.

You know, he he talks about, homelessness and all the things that he's done, and he has done some good programing.

But if you ask anybody who's lived in this city for a period of time, we have never had tent camps.

If the extent that we have now the number of homeless we've never had that we we never had businesses.

The cost of doing business in this city has gone up exponentially.

There are insurance companies that will not insured in the state, their insurance companies that will not insure in pockets of the city.

There are clients of mine who will call me and say, hey, can I not pay my loan payment this month because I need to pay my insurance, which just went up ten times.

So I think the reality of what's really happening with crime and homelessness has gone on deaf ears with this mayor.

He has not seen it and he's not listening.

And businesses are shutting down.

And, you know, we did the State Fair parade and we went from Louisiana to Girard.

And I was in even because we were going so slow, even I realized I was like, wow, it's it's just as bad as a lot of people who live in that area describe it.

There are boarded up businesses, boarded up buildings.

I mean, they're finding they're finding dead bodies and buildings that have been shut down for some time, and nothing's happening.

>> Nash: How will you be more transparent and honest with the Albuquerque public if you're mayor?

>> Armijo: The first thing I do is tie measured outcomes to the budget.

So every department is going to have a strategic plan.

They're going to know what they're they're going to have to get done within a year.

And within their budget.

And they're going to tie results to it.

And every year they're going to be able to say, this is what we accomplished with your money.

Mr.

or Mrs.

Taxpayer.

It just it's just one of those simple things that we can do.

Because right now you look at the budget and you're like, you got money to APD and you got money for why, but what are you getting out of that?

You as a taxpayer should know what you're getting as an ROI.

>> Nash: That does it for our look at the ballot for Albuquerque mayor Former Bernalillo County Sheriff Darren White was the only candidate of the seven running to decline our invitation.

You can rewatch all of our candidate interviews on YouTube, and stay tuned as we bring you more on the race to run Santa Fe in the coming weeks.

All too often, stories about native people and their communities focus on trauma.

That notion was front of mind for Santa Fe based playwright Dillon Chitto, who is Mississippi Choctaw, Isleta and Laguna Pueblo when he started working on Pueblo Revolt.

The play is set in the late 1600s in what is now New Mexico, and its name reflects the subject matter.

The Pueblo Revolt of 1680, considered the most successful indigenous uprising against colonization in North America.

Within weeks, native people drove the Spanish out of northern New Mexico to El Paso.

They wouldn't return for a decade.

Chito█s piece is, in the end, a comedy, but with serious questions running throughout, like what to do with feelings of not being able to take meaningful action to confront injustices happening around you.

For the latest installment of Indigenous Positive, our collaborative series with nonprofit Newsroom New Mexico in-depth correspondent Bella Davis takes us to the Playhouse for a look at Pueblo Revolt with Chitto and the play's two stars.

>> Chitto: Yeah, I think it's important for our indigenous people to tell our own stories, because we know what it is to be indigenous.

The only way that we can move forward and, like, show the world like who we are.

Show the world that, like, we have a rich culture tradition that is specific to each tribe is if we all, you know, tell our own stories.

[ upbeat music ] [ Introduction in Choctaw ] My name is Dillan Chitto I'm Mississippi, Choctaw, Laguna and Isleta.

Pueblo.

Pueblo revolt is about, two Isleta boys in 1680.

Going through, before, during and after the Pueblo revolt, the historical Pueblo revolt.

It's just questioning, you know, what do you do when history is happening around you and you don't you feel like you can't do anything about it?

>> :If we can unify all the pueblos to rise up on the same day, the Spanish wouldn't stand a chance.

They would have to leave.

That's why Atomos rebellion didn't work.

There were just too many Spanish and too little.

>> : there's so many pueblo█s I mean, how do we let everyone know?

How do we know when to attack.

>> : heat.

We can use yucca Court.

We'll tie a whole bunch of nazionale >> : like for Francisco's rosary.

Yeah.

>> And the nozzle each represent a day.

>> : and every morning.

And not as untied.

It's a calendar.

>> :Exactly.

We'll bring them to each pueblo.

>>:How >>: we'll run you.

And, we can go to each of the Pueblos.

>>: Run?

>>: What's wrong with that?

>>: That's far.

>>: Think of it.

This isn't just for chocolate.

This isn't just for our land.

They've enslaved us.

They killed us.

Enough is enough.

No, not just for us.

For our kids or grandkids.

Okay?

This is for the survival of our feet.

>>: Okay, You're right.

Just one question.

Do we get to keep the pigs?

>>: Obviously, we're going to keep the pigs.

>> Noe: My character's name is Feem.

Feem Whim Which his name means, cloudiness.

That it's cloudy in the sky.

He is a queer indigenous.

Isleta Pueblo character.

He is the younger of the two brothers in the show, and grew up working for the church and is an altar boy, and so has kind of a complicated relationship with sort of the colonization that's happening in real time around him.

>> Lewis: Well Homer is the the older brother to theme him.

He is maybe more pragmatic, a little bit more focused on getting things done.

Seems kind of in his dream world and focused on Guillermo his crush.

But, Bahoma has been taking care of the house and of Feem since they were kids when their parents passed.

And kind of just been, really the glue that holds a lot of the practical nature of things together.

In particular, in this show, he's really focused on how do we actually start a revolution and get the Spanish Out.

And he's a, an inexperienced revolutionary.

But his heart is definitely in the right place.

>> Davis: Nearly 350 years ago.

And what's now New Mexico, the majority of pueblos rose up against Spanish colonizers after years of enduring forced labor and violent religious suppression.

And they were successful.

They drove out the Spanish, who didn't return for over a decade.

>> Chitto: I went to Saint Mike, Saint Santa Fe.

At Saint Mike's.

We had two years of New Mexico history and the Pueblo Revolt was maybe a paragraph long.

And so it wasn't taught a lot.

But, you know, I knew I knew about it.

And like, you know, from family from, just from being Pueblo, like, learning about it myself.

When I learned about it when I was young, like, I'd say like eight or so, I started wanting to learn as much as I can, and I started actually, writing or drawing comic books about it when I was little.

And I've always really connected with, you know, that piece of history because, you know, those are my ancestors.

I just think it's something that we don't hear about a lot.

>>Lewis: As a Pueblo native, this is such a huge opportunity for me.

And the reason I was initially drawn to this, because I have never seen in the theater canon, a story that revolves around a pueblo, people.

>>Davis: Dylan did quite a bit of research while he was working on the script.

But the play isn't meant to be historical nonfiction, >>Chitto: So I call myself a primarily comedic playwright.

I've always wanted to lean more into that.

When Native Theater was getting big in the 90s, it was a lot of, trauma and sadness and, and like, I wanted to step away from that, to show that there's more to our stories than, you know, sad tears and like, everything like that.

Because I feel like, especially with something that could be, you know, a little iffy for audience members, because, you know, like, there's people who probably have family that, like, trace their line all the way back to, Onate coming in or something.

I didn't want to step on people's toes.

But also, I wanted to invite them in.

And the easiest way to do that is to make people laugh.

>>Bradley: I hate you have to hide this part of you around them that you can't be yourself.

>>Noe: Gay.

Oh, I decided to call it gay.

>>Bradley: Like.

Like gay meaning happy, right?

>>Noe: Oh, yeah.

That too nice.

>>Bradley: Well, I, I hate that you have to hide your gayness.

Gayness?

Is that a word?

>>Other peformer: I█ll allow it.

Yeah >>Bradley: But think, Once we get the Spanish to leave, we can't.

all of us, We can live the way our ancestors used to.

You would be free to be yourself, and nobody would care.

>>Dillon: Being, being a queer native boy, it was important that he was there.

I myself, I'm also gay.

And Isleta so, you know, it was a perfect match.

The importance of having him there was to show, you know, that show that, queer natives have always been.

There have always been here.

We're not we're not new.

We're not, something that like, you know, just just popped up out of nowhere.

You know, we have, tradition behind that.

>>Noe: I am mahu, which is the Hawaiian word for two spirit or transgender.

I say two spirit a lot because it, mahu a lot of people define it as the in between, you know, the third gender is what a lot of people actually say, that a lot of indigenous cultures have always valued trans and queer people within their communities, even so much as like queerness was not just celebrated, but also very, very normalized.

And I think in the show, like, obviously there's the fact that the Spaniards outside of this situation, you know, who are not part of the indigenous community, don't.

Of course, they don't agree those identities, but it's that the show does talk about the way that colonization sort of seeps into the minds of the people that they're colonizing, as well.

You said that people like me would be able to live freely, but our neighbors still don't like me.

I can't go outside because I'm not welcome anywhere, still.

>>Bradley: That's because the Spanish way of thinking is just ingrained in them too much.

>>Noe: Because we have to live the way that we used to before the Spanish came but we we can't we can't go back.

>>Dillon: I think one of the other major, major questions is how do we return to before, what happens when we do decolonize?

Like, is there a way to, you know, is there a way forward in the world that we live in right now?

You know, there's nothing that's certain in this life.

So the play doesn't attempt to give concrete answers.

It offers solutions, but it doesn't say this is the way >>Noe: We're going to have to try and live peacefully with them eventually.

All this bloodshed.

It's not good, >>Bradley: No.

All right.

So where does that leave us?

[Performers talking over each other] >>Noe: just everything is eventual, right?

I mean.

Do we really have a choice?

>>Bradley: Yes we do.

It might not be a good choice.

>>Noe: Yeah, I█d like to believe that.

But I just feel like the world happens around us.

[Performers talking over each other] >>Bradley: We write our own stories make our own destiny.

>>Noe: How?

>>Bradley: I'll let you know when I figure that out.

>>Noe: I hope that people see how nuanced the experience of being indigenous is from this.

Because, it's very easy to tell one story, you know, it's very easy to if you're on the outside of that, if you don't identify as indigenous, you know, it's it's easy to think of indigenous people, one, as like people from the past, you know, or like mythical creatures, you know, that kind of thing.

I think that's very I think that that can be an aspect in which the show sort of challenges that.

>>Bradley: A lot of times, and I see this even in modern breakdowns for TV and film and even for theater with indigenous characters.

These characters are not real people.

And we as indigenous people living in 2025 are very real people.

We play video games, we go to the grocery store, we have bills to pay.

It's it's just like you and me or anybody else.

And that's something that I think people I'm really excited that they're taking that away from, from this production.

Because, yeah, I mean, we are just as real as anybody else and that the culture is still very much thriving and very much alive.

>>Nash: Thank you to New Mexico In Depth█s Bella Davis and of course, NMPBS█, Benjamin Yazza and Joey Dunn for that latest episode of Indigenously Positive.

The State Fair wrapped up earlier this week, but before it did, our crew made it over to Expo New Mexico to take part in the fun.

From rides and games and food to livestock, sea lions, even a foam party.

Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham has proposed moving the fair to make way for housing and business development on that 236 acre lot in Albuquerque's international district.

And we wanted to know what people attending and working the fair thought about that idea.

[Upbeat Music Playing] [Cow moo] >>Rebecca: I love coming to the fair.

>>Will: I've probably been every year since I've been alive.

>>Rebecca: I've been coming since I was a little baby.

>>Tonia: I live in the International district.

>>Will: I'm here from here in Albuquerque.

Born and raised.

>>Rebecca: It's really nice to see, like, real people from Albuquerque.

I feel like the fair brings out different types of crowds, different classes.

>>Will: You know, it's right dow the street.

It's in our it's in our our town.

it brings our whole state together to one central point.

>>Tonia: More friendly and more friendlier atmosphere.

And all of the people to get together so they can get to know everybody, see their friends and families.

>Will: I love to see the livestock.

Love to see the art.

Love to see our agricultural, history and culture here in New Mexico.

We've got a beautiful culture.

>>Zina: This is our business for the state fair.

We do, it's a food booth that we've been doing for the last 23 years.

We specialize in blue corn fry bread and all the other, types of native food.

>>Jorge: These couple weeks at New Mexico is like a vacation for me.

This is where I meet all my friends.

It█s like here that they're trying probably even move the state fair to someplace else >>Nash: And what are your thoughts?

>>Jorge: My thoughts?

Is that this is this place over here where we are right now, is a place we█ve been blessed.

It█s been dedicated for the peoples of here at this community.

It's emotional for me because, well, most of us, we we make everything from scratch.

We do everything, you know, authentically.

And actually, we did a balloon fiesta, like in 2023, and it was our first balloon fiesta.

We were excited to do it, and we were happy to do it.

The authenticity wasn't there, you know, that you would expect for Albuquerque or New Mexico.

So I think if the if the State Fair were to relocate somewhere else, I think most of the people that actually do the state fair wouldn't be able to do it anymore because they couldn't afford it.

>>Rebecca: I think that the fair should stay in the location.

I think it's accessible for folks in the area.

I think people look forward to it every year, >>Tonia: Ever since my grandma been bringing me to it, I-- no, I don't think it should be moved.

>>Will: I love the fair where it is now.

I think it's a beautiful part of our state and our city.

But, you know, we obviously see troubles down here.

We see problems.

And, I think that while redeveloping it might, you know, address some of that, it also has a bit of light down here, a bit of culture, a bit of history, in southeast Albuquerque that, in a part of town that's, that's underserved and, and brings a huge amount of economy and people down here and maybe shows people once a year that that this part of town isn't so scary and is really another beautiful part of our city.

>>Nash: If the fair moved somewhere else in Albuquerque Would you still go?

>>Rebecca: Yeah, I█ll still go I█ll gripe about it, but also go >>Will: Absolutely.

I'd still be there but it wouldn't be the same.

It would not be the same if it wasn't, in this little, very, very great part of our city.

>>Nash: For more on what's behind the idea to move the fair, what would go in its place, who's making the call and when, here's former Albuquerque Mayor Marty Chavez, a senior advisor to the governor who's taken the lead on the project.

Marty Chavez, Thanks so much for joining us.

Back in December.

Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham first announced this idea of potentially redeveloping Expo New Mexico.

Where did the idea come from?

>>Marty: Well, it starts with frustration as to what's going on in that part of Albuquerque.

You know, it is in terms of crime stats and quality of life crimes, the epicenter of crime.

This notwithstanding, some wonderful families activists there.

But just trying to figure out how do we change the trajectory of that part of Albuquerque.

And the fair's right there, there is an incredible asset that can be leveraged to really change lives.

And that's where it comes from.

>>Nash: And the legislature created the New Mexico State Fairgrounds District Board earlier this year.

The question that it's working to answer is basically, should Expo New Mexico be redeveloped?

And if so, should the fair move?

Do I have that right?

>>Marty: You've got it right.

What it is, is a tiered like structure, that, captures all the gross receipts that are generated within the fairgrounds and keeps them in that area, >>Nash: The tax increment district?

>>Marty: It's like a tax increment district.

It's not quite that legally, but it operates the same way.

And what this does is that traditional tiered can't do it captures the gaming taxes which are substantial.

So this new district, which is governed by statue by the governor, the mayor and other elected officials, will have approximately $9.1 million a year of annual revenue that can be spent in the immediate, state fairgrounds or in the immediate vicinity of the fairgrounds and bonding capacity up to a half $1 billion.

So for the first time in ever, real meaningful financial, pressures and assets brought to bear on the challenges.

>>Nash: And what are some of the ideas that have arisen about how to use the Expo New Mexico space?

Well, what the governor would like to do, and I share her, what I share and with her on that is to move the fair.

We'll have with the new property acquisitions, 250 acres, mixed use, mixed income, walkable neighborhood, green space, preserve the historic buildings that are there because they'd be tremendous amenities for a neighborhood.

And, you know, see the new jobs and the growth that happens as a result.

We estimate, at least our economists estimate, that if this goes as planned, 2 to $4 billion of economic activity, temporary jobs, permanent jobs, people working, going.

>>Nash: What kind of jobs would they be?

>>Marty: Well they█d be all types of jobs.

And as we know, the business sector is making they're casting their votes with their dollars.

They're leaving.

Walmart's gone.

CVS has gone.

Walgreens is gone.

The Sonic is closed down.

People don't even want to stay in their cars to eat a hamburger across the street from the fair.

And we want them to come back.

And with an emphasis on local business, but business people working.

That's how it's an old bumper sticker.

The best social program ever invented as a job.

We need jobs.

>>Nash: Mayor Tim Keller was on the show last week, and he not only expressed an interest in keeping the fair in Albuquerque, but at Expo New Mexico, saying that the site is large enough to to do both to maintain that, that midway where we see the fair, but also to redevelop the corners of the lot with some of what you're talking about.

What's your reaction to the mayor's point of view?

>>Marty: Well, we're in the midst of, of a very extensive, and exhaustive community engagement process, data analysis, economists on board getting all of the, you know, the facts together because the governor wants us to be a fact driven, decision.

We know this, the neighborhoods around the fair.

The median property values, or a third of the rest of the county.

The median income around the fair is half of what it is for the rest of the county.

So we're dealing with with serious poverty.

Anyway, it's driven up there.

At any time of day, knows, they can see with their own eyes.

People cooking fentanyl on central in front of our brand new library.

Intense.

You name it.

There is, cartel activity, human trafficking.

It is intolerable.

And the governor is joined, by all the elected officials for the area, including the speaker of the House and the mayor.

In December, they said this is simply intolerable.

So let's find some solutions.

>>Nash: So why does moving the fair have to be a part of that solution?

>>Marty: Well, what it would do and we do intend to and this is going to happen regardless of whether the fair goes or stays.

We're going to acquire the 14 acres, which is the corner of San Pedro and Central.

That's a privately owned little group of acreage out there.

It's Tent City right now.

This is a good methadone clinic, and it's not a place you want to walk around, even in the daytime.

We won't acquire that.

That would give us 250 acres.

And then let's see, what the analysis with this community master planning process reveals.

But there's nothing magic about where the fair is.

Governance.

It will be in central New Mexico, most likely in Albuquerque, but it could be part of Sandoval County.

Part of Valencia County.

But let's see.

You know, the the fair when I was a kid was the third largest in the country.

It's not anymore.

And it stumbles along and and and I will give credit to the management at the fair.

They do a good job with what they have, but we can do so much better.

>>Nash: Well, I went out to the fair, last week to chat with vendors and patrons about all of these ideas.

I didn't actually find anybody.

Maybe unsurprisingly, that was in favor of moving the fair and excited about that idea.

I want to play a clip of Zina Crum, owner of Zina█s Blue Corn Cafe, which has been serving their famous blue corn fry bread for over two decades at the state fair.

And she spoke to me about her concerns about the commercialization, the potential commercialization of food vendors.

If the fair were to move >>Zina: You wouldn█t have this, you wouldn█t have the authentic, you know, the New Mexico chilies and the New Mexico food made by New Mexico people, you know, be from here.

It'd be made by people from somewhere else, you know, doing carnival food, because that's what they do.

It wouldn't be the same.

They would it wouldn't lose their-- it The New Mexico State Fair will lose their, their authenticity of especially the Indian village.

And you know, all of that would be lost.

So that's that's where I get emotional.

And it's like all of that would be gone.

And where would the representation be?

Because I'm sure, you know, the new site would cost more money than what we pay right now.

So, you know, so I don't think we'd be able to afford it.

>>Nash: Your reaction to Zina?

>>Marty:You know, when the fair was first built, it was the middle of nowhere, way up on the mesa.

There's nothing magic about location.

I'm a little bit mystified by the concern about the authenticity of the food.

You know, we can have great New Mexico food anywhere.

The governor insists that all stay in central New-- >>Nash: Part of the concern was being, you know, local vendors being priced out, having to make that move.

I know that she also mentioned to me, outside of that clip, that she had, tried to vend at the balloon Fiesta and found that was very commercialized.

Less local vendors >>Marty: May want to talk to Balloon Fiesta about that.

The governor is committed to making the fair even better.

And here's one of the opportunities.

Nash.

And that is, the kids are coming from rural New Mexico like they used to with their sheeps and their sheep and their livestock.

Because they get more money.

At the Eastern New Mexico fair in Roswell, for example.

The fair is shrinking in terms-- >>Nash: About the site?

>>Marty: Well, it's about just the fair.

It's old.

It needs, reinvigoration, needs reimagination.

So what the governor has said is, let's not think small.

Let's reimagine what is a modern New Mexico fair look like, how much agriculture, how much livestock?

Do we really need horse racing?

I mean, is that a dying thing?

But.

And no conclusions.

Let's just think about it.

Let's envision it.

Let's dream big.

We deserve that much.

>>Nash: In terms of this vision, the state has hired Stantec Consulting Services to develop what's called a master plan for this project.

Where does that work stand?

>>Marty: We're about halfway through the process.

They expect they will have product around February, which is only a few months, in the future.

We've, have it in, stock.

A stakeholders engagement group, which are all neighborhood folks that are helping inform that process.

They're assessing all of the buildings in the fair.

Looking at all the gross receipts, looking at the economics around the fair, looking at alternative sites, what would that cost?

>>Nash: So once this plan comes out, potentially in February, what happens next?

>>Marty: Well, then the State Fair District board, which is that new creation, will look at it and decide which things they want to invest in.

They will issue bonds.

Those have to go through a very extensive, rigorous process of of approval.

State Board of Finance.

The New Mexico plan is sort of back to the legislature to issue bonds to actually do that particular whatever the construction is-- >>Nash: Is there voting along the way Or, who makes that final decision?

>>Marty: Well, the final decision on moving the fair is not this fair district.

It's the State Fair Commission, the good old State Fair Commission, that we have, they'll make the decision as to whether the fair moves what goes in its place.

In terms of financing, it will be up to this state fair district board.

>>Nash: And what sort of timeline might we be looking at for that final decision?

>>Marty: I would expect a decision on moving and not moving to be early next year.

And then you'll see some bond activity, frankly, in the next few weeks, from the state through district board.

There is a piece of real estate that I mentioned before that we want to acquire.

It's move agnostic, if you will.

Everyone agrees where they want the fair to stay, where it is, or to move it.

That that little 14 acre parcel on the corner of Saint Peter and Central should be acquired.

If only to expand the fair.

There's talked about an event center, an arena.

Maybe we start an entertainment district up there.

You know, everything's on the table, and it's a marvelous opportunity with actual money behind it.

>>Nash: The decision to move or not move the fair is expected next year.

Is it likely that the state fair will take place at Expo New Mexico next year?

>>Marty: It'll continue where it is for some time.

Let's say the decision was made in March to move the fair.

We still have to build a new fair, say stuff to locate it.

That's years in the works.

So there'll be a lot of time between now and then, and people can go enjoy creating these elm trees, which I dig out of my yard every other day.

>>Nash: Thanks, Marty Chavis.

Appreciate it.

Oh, come.

For New Mexico PBS, I'm Nash Jones.

Until next week.

Stay focused.

Funding for New Mexico in Focus is provided by viewers like you.