>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS  LIKE YOU.

>> Jeff: THIS WEEK ON NEW  MEXICO IN FOCUS, CLOSING ENCAMPMENTS.

THE CHAIR OF ALBUQUERQUE'S HUMAN RIGHTS BOARD DETAILS  SOME HARSH CLAIMS IN A NEW DRAFT REPORT DOCUMENTING THE  CITY'S APPROACH TO UNHOUSED PEOPLE.

>> Dass: THAT'S SOMETHING I TAKE VERY SERIOUSLY.

AND THE ENTIRE EXPERIENCE OF BEING HOMELESS IN  ALBUQUERQUE, IT FEELS LIKE YOU'RE BEING ROBBED OVER AND  OVER AGAIN, AND IT FEELS LIKE YOU'RE BEING ABUSED.

>> Jeff: AND, TWO LONGTIME ADVOCATES AND A CITY  COUNCILOR GATHER AT OUR ZOOM ROUNDTABLE TO EXPLORE A MORE  HUMANE APPROACH TO THOSE LIVING OUTSIDE.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I'M EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR.

THREE MONTHS AGO, WE AIRED A SPECIAL EPISODE CENTERED ON  THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE'S ATTEMPT AT A COMPREHENSIVE  APPROACH TO THE GROWING NUMBER OF PEOPLE  EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS HERE.

THE OBSTACLES TO HOUSING, AND THE PRECARIOUS  SITUATIONS THOSE LIVING OUTSIDE REMAIN ENTRENCHED.

BUT WE HAVE SOME NEW DATA THAT SPOTLIGHTS THE ISSUE  NOW, AND THE LEGAL LANDSCAPE HAS SHIFTED DRAMATICALLY  SINCE EARLY MAY.

WE NOW HAVE A CLEARER  PICTURE OF THE UNHOUSED POPULATION, AS THE ANNUAL  POINT IN TIME COUNT FROM THE NEW MEXICO COALITION TO END  HOMELESSNESS SHOWS AN INCREASED TALLY FROM LAST  YEAR.

IN JUNE, THE U.S. SUPREME  COURT ISSUED AN OPINION IN GRANTS PASS V. JOHNSON,  A CASE OUT OF OREGON THAT SAYS CITIES CAN BAN HOMELESS  PEOPLE FROM SLEEPING IN PUBLIC LOCATIONS WITHOUT  VIOLATING THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

AND A NEW DRAFT REPORT FROM ALBUQUERQUE'S HUMAN RIGHTS  BOARD SAYS CITY EMPLOYEES CONTINUE TO ROUST PEOPLE  WITHOUT ANY NOTICE AND IN MANY CASES TAKE AWAY THE FEW  POSSESSIONS THEY HAVE.

THERE'S A LOT TO CONSIDER,  AND WE WANTED TO HEAR FROM THE CITY AND THE BOARD ABOUT  THAT REPORT.

IN LESS THAN 20 MINUTES,  BOARD CHAIR ANAMI DASS WALKS US THROUGH HOW THE REPORT  CAME TO BE AND ITS RECOMMENDATIONS TO ADDRESS  AND ASSIST ALBUQUERQUE'S UNHOUSED COMMUNITY.

THEN, LATER IN TODAY'S SHOW, ALBUQUERQUE'S CITY ATTORNEY  LAUREN KEEFE ADDRESSES THE REPORT'S CLAIMS THAT THE  CITY ROUTINELY VIOLATES THE AUTONOMY, DIGNITY, AND  RIGHTS OF HOMELESS PEOPLE.

BUT FIRST, WE TURN TO OUR  PANEL OF EXPERTS TO DIVE INTO THE ISSUE.

DISTRICT SIX CITY COUNCILOR NICHOLE ROGERS, ATTORNEY AND  LONGTIME ADVOCATE PETER CUBRA, AND RACHEL BIGGS,  CHIEF STRATEGY OFFICER FOR ALBUQUERQUE HEALTH CARE FOR  THE HOMELESS JOIN US TODAY VIA ZOOM.

BEFORE WE GET THERE, A QUICK NOTE TO OUR VIEWERS.

COVID CONTINUES TO BE A PROBLEM IN OUR STATE.

AND THE VIRUS HAS SIDELINED A FEW MEMBERS OF OUR  PRODUCTION TEAM.

TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF OUR  STAFF AND GUESTS, YOU'LL SEE AN ENTIRELY VIRTUAL SHOW  THIS WEEK.

>> Lou: THANK YOU ALL FOR  JOINING ME TODAY FOR THIS IMPORTANT CONVERSATION.

NOW, SINCE THE U.S. SUPREME COURT'S GRANTS PASS DECISION  IN JUNE, THERE'S BEEN A FEELING THAT SOMETHING'S  CHANGED IN HOW LAW ENFORCEMENT AND OTHER  GOVERNMENT WORKERS ARE TREATING AND RESPONDING TO  UNHOUSED FOLKS IN NEW MEXICO.

PARTICULARLY IN ALBUQUERQUE.

NOW, WE'VE HEARD LOTS OF  ANECDOTAL STORIES, AND ALBUQUERQUE'S HUMAN RIGHTS  BOARD IS NOW WORKING ON A REPORT ABOUT THE TREATMENT  OF HOMELESS PEOPLE.

COUNCILOR ROGERS,   I WANT TO START WITH YOU.

WHAT HAVE YOU HEARD FROM YOUR CONSTITUENTS?

HAS THERE BEEN A CHANGE OR SHIFT IN HOW THE CITY IS  APPROACHING UNHOUSED PEOPLE IN YOUR DISTRICT, TO YOUR  KNOWLEDGE?

>> Rogers: THANK YOU FOR  HAVING ME.

THIS IS SOMETHING I  DEFINITELY HEAR ABOUT DAILY FROM CONSTITUENTS IN MY  DISTRICT.

AND YOU KNOW, REALLY, THE  DILEMMA FOR MY DISTRICT IS FOLKS ARE REALLY WANTING TO  FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN HELP, BUT ALSO WANT TO PROTECT  WHAT THEY'VE BUILT AND THE HOMES THEY'VE BOUGHT AND THE  NEIGHBORHOODS THEY'VE CALLED HOME, SOME FOR 50-PLUS  YEARS.

AND SO, I THINK THE SHIFT  FOR WHAT I'M SEEING IN MY DISTRICT, SPECIFICALLY, IS  PEOPLE ARE JUST GETTING FATIGUED.

I CALL IT COMPASSION FATIGUE.

WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT I DEALT WITH IN THE HOSPITAL  WHEN I WORKED AT UNM HOSPITAL WITH NURSES.

AND I'M SEEING THAT IN THE COMMUNITY.

PEOPLE ARE JUST AT A LOSS FOR WHAT TO DO, HOW TO HELP.

BUT THEY KNOW SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE, AND JUST  DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS.

AND SO, I'M WORRIED THAT  PUBLIC OPINION IS SHIFTING AND PEOPLE ARE GOING TO  START CALLING FOR LAWMAKERS TO CRIMINALIZE HOMELESSNESS.

AND REALLY THAT'S CRIMINALIZING POVERTY, IN MY  OPINION.

AND SO, WE ALREADY HAVE  SEVERAL WAYS THAT WE DO THAT IN THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE  WITH OUR ENCAMPMENT SWEEPS, WITH TRESPASSING LAWS, AND  SO WHEN WE DON'T THINK IN ALBUQUERQUE WE HAVE THINGS  LIKE GRANT PASS, OREGON, NO WE MAY NOT HAVE CIVIL  PENALTIES OR THOSE TYPES OF THINGS, BUT WE DEFINITELY  HAVE LAWS ON THE BOOKS ALREADY THAT CAN BE USED AND  ARE USED TO CRIMINALIZE HOMELESSNESS.

>> Lou: ARE YOU AWARE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT CHANGING THEIR  TACTICS IN ANY WAY, IN TERMS OF LESS NOTICE, MORE SWEEPS  IN SHORTER PERIODS OF TIME IN YOUR DISTRICT RIGHT NOW  SINCE THE DECISION?

>> Rogers: YEAH, I THINK I  BROUGHT IT UP AT A COUNCIL MEETING RIGHT AFTER THE  DECISION.

I'VE SEEN THE ENCAMPMENT  SWEEPS HAPPENING MUCH MORE.

I THINK I DID BRING THAT UP  IN A MEETING THAT THIS SUPREME COURT RULING CAME  DOWN AND THE NEXT WEEK I DID SEE A LOT MORE MOVEMENT IN  MY DISTRICT AROUND ENCAMPMENTS.

>> Lou: OKAY.

>> Rogers: LOOK, THE BOTTOM  LINE IS WE HAVE TO HAVE A BETTER RESPONSE THAT  ACTUALLY PUTS PEOPLE INTO HOUSING WITH WRAPAROUND  SERVICES.

THAT IS WHAT WE NEED.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE DO NOT HAVE.

SO, I THINK THAT THAT'S WHERE THE CONVERSATION NEEDS  TO SHIFT IS NOT SHELTERS THAT ARE TEMPORARY FIX  FOR -- OR SUPPOSED TO BE FOR ONE NIGHT.

WHEN WE KNOW WE HAVE PEOPLE LIVING AT SHELTERS FOR  SIX-PLUS YEARS.

WE'RE FAILING.

WE'RE FAILING.

I THINK THAT'S EVIDENT BY  WHAT YOU SEE, ESPECIALLY IN MY DISTRICT ALONG CENTRAL.

YOU CAN SEE IT VERY CLEARLY.

>> Lou: THANK YOU.

NOW, PETER, YOU SPOKE ON OUR AIR IN MAY ABOUT THE RIGHTS  OF UNHOUSED PEOPLE.

BRIEFLY, HOW HAS THE GRANTS  PASS DECISION IMPACTED THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS OF  HOMELESS PEOPLE IN NEW MEXICO?

AND WHAT'S THE STATE OF THEIR RIGHTS FOR THAT  POPULATION UNDER OUR STATE CONSTITUTION?

>> Cubra: IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN EXACTLY HOW THAT CASE  WILL AFFECT US HERE.

MANY OF YOU WHO ARE WATCHING  PROBABLY KNOW THERE'S A LAWSUIT THAT'S BEEN UNDERWAY  NOW FOR ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF.

IT'S CALLED WILLIAMS VERSUS ALBUQUERQUE.

IT'S A PROPOSED CLASS ACTION ON BEHALF OF ALL PEOPLE WHO  ARE INVOLUNTARILY UNHOUSED.

THAT IS, PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO  AVAILABLE DWELLING THAT IS FIT FOR HUMAN OCCUPATION AT  THIS TIME.

AND IN THAT CASE IT WAS  BROUGHT IN STATE COURT SOLELY UNDER THE STATE  CONSTITUTION.

SO, WITHOUT BEING TOO  TECHNICAL THE STATE CONSTITUTION IN SOME WAYS  FOLLOWS EXACTLY THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION, AND IN  SOME WAYS IS QUITE DIFFERENT.

THERE ARE NO CASES THAT I'M AWARE OF WHERE THE CRUEL AND  UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT ASPECTS OF WHAT DO WE DO TO POOR  PEOPLE HAVE BEEN LITIGATED IN NEW MEXICO SEPARATE FROM  FEDERAL LAW.

SO, WE DON'T KNOW YET AND WE  WON'T KNOW UNTIL THE SUPREME COURT OF NEW MEXICO TELLS US  WHAT CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT MEANS WITH  RESPECT TO UNHOUSED PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO PLACE TO BE AND  WHO ARE SLEEPING, AN ESSENTIAL HUMAN FUNCTION, ON  PUBLIC LAND.

SO, THAT'S ONE THING.

BUT THE THING THAT IS THUS FAR NOT UNDERSTOOD BY MOST  PEOPLE IS THAT THE CLAIMS BEING BROUGHT IN THAT  LAWSUIT WERE KNOWINGLY BROUGHT BY GOOD, SMART  LAWYERS WHO SAW THAT THERE WAS SOME HAZARD THAT THIS  SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED SATES DECISION WOULD GO THIS  WAY.

SO THEY HAVE OTHER CLAIMS  THAT WERE NOT ADDRESSED IN ANY WAY BY GRANTS PASS.

SO, WE ALL HAVE A SUBSTANTIVE DUE PROCESS  RIGHT TO NOT BEING HARMED BY THE GOVERNMENT.

THEY DON'T OWE US ANYTHING.

IF I'M POOR AND I'M SITTING  ON THE STREET THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T REALLY OWE US  ANYTHING UNDER THE UNITED SATES CONSTITUTION, BUT WE  ARE ALL ENTITLED TO NOT BE AFFIRMATIVELY HARMED BY THE  GOVERNMENT.

THE SUBSTANTIVE DUE PROCESS  RIGHT.

AND THAT IS UNCHANGED.

AND WHAT THE FACTS ARE PERFECTLY CLEAR THAT CITY  EMPLOYEES ARE CONSUMING ANNUALLY MILLIONS OF CITY  DOLLARS TO TAKE PEOPLE WHO ARE SAFELY SHELTERED IN A  TENT INSIDE OF A SLEEPING BAG, KEEPING AWAY FROM THE  COLD, AND THE CITY IS PAYING PEOPLE TO TAKE AWAY THE TENT  AND THE SLEEPING BAG IN THE WINTER.

THEY'RE ALSO FORCING PEOPLE TO GO OUT TO THE WEST SIDE  SHELTER.

THE WEST SIDE SHELTER HAD  NINE DEATHS REPORTED IN 2023.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY DEATHS SO FAR IN 2024.

BUT ALL KINDS OF HARM FROM SEXUAL ASSAULT TO THEFT TO  PHYSICAL BEATINGS HAPPENS TO PEOPLE THERE AS WELL AS THEY  DON'T GET THEIR MEDICAL NEEDS MET.

SO, THE CITY IS CAUSING HARM, DANGER CREATION IS  PROHIBITED BY THE 14th AMENDMENT TO THE UNITED  STATES CONSTITUTION AND BY THE STATE CONSTITUTION.

SO, THE BEHAVIOR IS STILL UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

EVEN THOUGH THE GRANTS PASS SAYS THE FEDERAL  CONSTITUTION DOES NOT PROHIBIT PUNISHING PEOPLE  CRIMINALLY.

BUT WE DON'T KNOW, AND WE  WON'T KNOW FOR QUITE SOME TIME WHAT THE NEW MEXICO  CONSTITUTION PROHIBITS.

>> Lou: RACHEL, I WANT TO  SHIFT TO YOU IN THIS YEAR'S POINT IN TIME COUNT OF THE  NEW MEXICO COALITION TO END HOMELESSNESS.

IT SHOWS THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE LIVING UNHOUSED IN  ALBUQUERQUE HAS REACHED A NEW HIGH.

THE NUMBER LISTED WAS AROUND 1200 PEOPLE.

THAT'S AN INCREASE FROM 977 LAST YEAR.

BUT EVEN THE STUDY'S AUTHOR SAYS THAT'S GOING TO BE A  MASSIVE UNDERCOUNT.

HOW DO ORGANIZATIONS LIKE  YOURS DEAL WITH DATA HOLES LIKE THAT, BUT ALSO THESE  STEADY INCREASES WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE THE FIRM DATA TO  BACK IT UP, BUT YOU'RE AWARE THESE NUMBERS ARE CLIMBING?

>> Biggs: RIGHT, THE POINT IN TIME COUNT GIVES US  REALLY IMPORTANT INFORMATION EVERY YEAR.

IT'S NOT A CENSUS, IT'S A SNAPSHOT ON A POINT IN TIME  IN A SINGLE NIGHT.

ONLY OF THOSE FOLKS WE CAN  COUNT ON THE STREET OR IN A SHELTER.

SO IT DOES NOT ACCOUNT FOR THE HUGE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE  THAT ARE MOVING IN AND OUT OF HOMELESSNESS THROUGHOUT  THE YEAR.

FOLKS IN MOTELS, JAILS,  HOSPITALS AT THE TIME OF THE COUNT.

WE KNOW THE COUNT IS LIKELY 2.5 TO 10 TIMES HIGHER THAN  WHAT YOU SEE IN THE REPORT.

THE 2024 REPORT THAT JUST  CAME OUT INDICATED ON A SINGLE NIGHT ACTUALLY 2700  PEOPLE, OVER 2700 PEOPLE IN ALBUQUERQUE WERE  EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS ON ONE NIGHT.

AND THAT'S DOUBLED FROM TWO YEARS AGO.

IN 2022 THAT NUMBER WAS 1300.

WE'RE NOT SURPRISED.

I THINK ANYONE DOING THIS  WORK IN HOMELESS SERVICES OR IN HOUSING KNOWS THAT THE  NUMBERS ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO INCREASE.

COUNCILOR ROGERS INDICATED WHAT WE'RE DOING ISN'T  WORKING.

IT'S OUR SYSTEMS THAT ARE  FAILING PEOPLE RIGHT NOW.

AND IT'S BAD -- DECADES OF  BAD PUBLIC POLICY THAT HAVE CREATED HOMELESSNESS.

AND UNTIL WE GET OUR RENTS UNDER CONTROL, UNTIL WE  BUILD MORE HOUSING TO STABILIZE RENTS AND MAKE  SURE PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO ABUNDANT, ABUNDANT HOUSING  OPTIONS THAT EVERYONE DESERVES WE'RE JUST GOING TO  CONTINUE TO SEE THESE NUMBERS GROW.

SO, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR FOLKS ON THE GROUND LIKE  ALBUQUERQUE HEALTH CARE FOR THE HOMELESS AND OUR  PARTNERS TRYING TO REACH PEOPLE AS NUMBERS CONTINUE  TO GROW?

WE HAVE TO BE VERY PROACTIVE  IN OUR OUTREACH.

EVERYTHING WE DO AT HEALTH  CARE FOR THE HOMELESS AND OUR FOUR WALLS WE TAKE OUT  TO THE STREET.

EVERYTHING WE CAN DO IN THE  FIELD.

THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DO  RIGHT NOW.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE'LL  CONTINUE TO DO.

I THINK REGARDLESS OF THE  RULING, THE SUPREME COURT RULING, WE KNEW IT WASN'T  GOING TO SOLVE HOMELESSNESS.

WE WERE PREPARED THAT IT  COULD MAKE HOMELESSNESS WORSE.

WE HAVE TO BE PREPARED WITH OUR SYSTEMS TO RESPOND AND  OUR INTEGRATED HEALTH OUTREACH MODEL IS A PERFECT  EXAMPLE OF HOW WE ARE CONSTANTLY INNOVATING TO  MAKE SURE WE'RE GETTING THE SERVICES OUT TO PEOPLE  THROUGHOUT OUR WHOLE SERVICE AREA.

WE COVER ALL OF BERNALILLO COUNTY.

WE HAVE TO FIND PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE  AS PEOPLE ARE CONTINUALLY BEING MOVED FROM PLACE TO  PLACE.

WE'RE ADDRESSING THIS AS THE  PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE THAT IT IS TOO.

PETER MENTIONED MORTALITY DATA, THAT'S SOMETHING WE  LOOK AT HERE QUITE CLOSELY AT HEALTH CARE FOR THE  HOMELESS.

WE'RE LUCKY TO WORK WITH THE  MEDICAL INVESTIGATOR IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO.

WE'VE SEEN 138% INCREASE IN HOMELESS DEATHS FROM 2018 TO  2022.

THAT'S NOT TAKING INTO COUNT  THE PAST TWO YEARS.

WE'RE CONCERNED THAT THESE  NUMBERS ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO RISE.

THERE'S ALSO A GREAT STUDY THAT CAME OUT OF JAMA, THE  JOURNAL OF AMERICAN MEDICINE, THAT SHOWED 150%  INDICATED INCREASE IN OVERDOSE DEATHS DUE TO  FORCED DISPLACEMENT, MOVING PEOPLE, CONCENTRATING  PEOPLE INTO UNSAFE PLACES.

SO, FOR US, THIS IS REALLY A  PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE.

IT'S AN ISSUE OF LIFE OR  DEATH.

AND THAT'S WHY OUR  INTEGRATED HEALTH OUTREACH HAS TO RESPOND AND HAS TO BE  PROACTIVE.

I'LL JUST END BY SAYING  BECAUSE OF THIS COURT RULING, IT DOESN'T CHANGE  ANYTHING FOR US.

THESE ARE THINGS THAT PEOPLE  ON THE STREET HAVE BEEN EXPERIENCING FOR DECADES.

WE'VE BEEN AROUND FOR ALMOST 40 YEARS RESPONDING TO THIS.

BUT WE ARE CONCERNED IT WILL MAKE IT WORSE.

AND WE FEEL THAT WE SHOULDN'T EVEN BE HAVING  THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT WHETHER WE CAN MOVE  SOMEONE'S MAKESHIFT SHELTER, HOW WE MOVE IT, WHEN WE MOVE  IT, HOW MUCH NOTICE.

WE SHOULD REALLY BE FOCUSING  ON HOW DO WE GET MORE ABUNDANT HOUSING SUPPLY THAT  EVERYONE NEEDS AND DESERVES IN OUR COMMUNITY.

AND UNTIL WE SHIFT THE ENERGY AND FOCUS AND  COMMUNITY RESOURCES TOWARDS THOSE SOLUTIONS, WE'RE JUST  WASTING OUR TIME HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS.

>> Lou: NOW, I'M SURE EVERYONE SAW THE RECENT NEWS  STORIES REPORTING THAT GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN  GRISHAM IS INTERESTED IN TAKING A PATH SIMILAR TO  CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR GAVIN NEWSOM'S.

EMPOWERING THE STATE TO SWEEP ENCAMPMENTS,  ENCOURAGING LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO DO THE SAME.

IT SOUNDS LIKE, BASED ON SOME OF THAT REPORTING, THE  ALBUQUERQUE MAYOR IS INTERESTED TOO.

DOES THAT SEEM LIKE A VIABLE SOLUTION TO YOU, COUNCILOR  ROGERS?

>> Rogers: NO.

NO.

THE CITY'S ALREADY BEEN  DOING THAT.

WE DIDN'T NEED THE GOVERNOR  TO TELL US THAT THE MAYOR HAS ALREADY BEEN SWEEPING  ENCAMPMENTS AND, YOU KNOW, REALLY PLAYING THE SHELL  GAME WITH PEOPLE.

AND NO, IT'S NOT WORKING.

IT'S CLEAR IT'S NOT WORKING BECAUSE ALL PEOPLE ARE BEING  OFFERED IS LIKE MR. CUBRA SAID IS A TRIP TO THE WEST  SIDE SHELTER.

I DID A POP-UP VISIT THERE  MYSELF, AND WE WOULDN'T EVEN BE ABLE TO LEGALLY HOUSE  PRISONERS THERE IN THE CONDITIONS IT'S IN.

I KNOW THE CITY IS WORKING VERY DILIGENTLY NOW TO GET  THOSE THINGS FIXED, BUT NOT -- NO, IT'S NOT A  STRATEGY THAT'S GOING TO ACTUALLY HELP US HELP MEET  PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE TO GET THINGS THEY NEED.

AGAIN, I HAVE TO STRESS THAT THE ROOT CAUSE HERE IS  POVERTY.

POVERTY IS THE ROOT CAUSE.

YOU CAN SAY SUBSTANCE ABUSE, YOU CAN SAY MENTAL HEALTH,  NONE OF THAT MATTERS OTHER THAN POVERTY.

BECAUSE IF FOLKS COULD PAY FOR CARE, THEY WOULD GET THE  CARE THAT THEY NEEDED.

FOLKS CAN'T PAY FOR HOUSING.

FOLKS CAN'T PAY FOR THEIR MENTAL HEALTH.

CAN'T PAY TO GO TO SUBSTANCE ABUSE SERVICES, ESPECIALLY  IF YOU'RE ON MEDICAID.

SO, WE MUST CHANGE THE  CONVERSATION AND TALK ABOUT ALLEVIATING SUFFERING AND  ALLEVIATING POVERTY.

THAT FOR NEW MEXICO,  ESPECIALLY DISTRICT SIX, IS GENERATIONAL.

IT'S NOT SOMETHING THEY CAN JUST GO TO MARE MOM AS A  SAFETY NET, OR GO TO THEIR DAD OR GRANDMA FOR A SAFETY  NET.

WE ARE CRIMINALIZING  POVERTY.

AND THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO  BE TALKING ABOUT AS THE ROOT CAUSE.

>> Lou: THANK YOU, ALL.

I'M SORRY TO END IT THERE.

I KNOW THAT WAS QUICK, BUT WE'LL BE BACK FOR ANOTHER  SEGMENT IN JUST A FEW MINUTES.

THANK YOU.

>> Jeff: WHEN ANAMI DASS  FIRST JOINED THE ALBUQUERQUE HUMAN RIGHTS BOARD IN 2023,  SHE WANTED TO USE HER EXPERIENCE HAVING ONCE LIVED  HOMELESS TO AMPLIFY THE VOICES OF OTHER UNHOUSED  PEOPLE IN HER COMMUNITY.

LAST MONTH'S DRAFT BOARD  REPORT ANALYZING THE CITY'S HANDLING OF HOMELESS PEOPLE  DOES JUST THAT.

OPENING WITH QUOTES FROM  SEVERAL PEOPLE CURRENTLY LIVING ON THE CITY'S  STREETS.

IN ADDITION TO THOSE  DIFFICULT-TO-READ FIRST-HAND ACCOUNTS, THE REPORT  INCLUDES SEVERAL RECOMMENDATIONS TO HELP  IMPROVE THE LIVES OF THOSE WHO NEED IT MOST.

>> Jeff: ANAMI DASS, CHAIR OF ALBUQUERQUE'S HUMAN  RIGHTS BOARD, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME ON NEW MEXICO IN  FOCUS.

>> Dass: IT'S GREAT TO BE  HERE.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> Jeff: LATE LAST MONTH, THE BOARD RELEASED A DRAFT  REPORT ANALYZING THE CITY'S HANDLING OF HOMELESS PEOPLE  IN ALBUQUERQUE.

AND THE BOARD FOUND A NUMBER  OF ISSUES WITH THE CITY'S PRACTICES AND APPROACH.

CAN YOU GIVE US SOME BACKGROUND ON HOW THE REPORT  CAME TO BE, AND MAYBE DESCRIBE THE METHODOLOGY  Y'ALL USED, A LITTLE BIT.

>> Dass: FOR SURE.

THE REPORT ITSELF CAME AFTER A RESOLUTION THAT THE BOARD  PASSED BACK IN FEBRUARY WHERE WE CALLED FOR THE  PUBLIC HEARING THAT WE JUST WERE DISCUSSING DURING THE  LAST MONTH'S MEETING.

AND THE REPORT IS THE  FOLLOW-UP TO THAT PUBLIC HEARING.

THE METHODOLOGY THAT WENT INTO IT WAS SIX MONTHS OF ME  LEARNING HOW TO WRITE A REPORT, HONESTLY.

I DON'T HAVE AN ACADEMIC BACKGROUND, AND I DON'T HAVE  AN ANALYTICS BACKGROUND.

I DO HAVE LIVED EXPERIENCE  OF HOMELESSNESS.

SO, I KNEW THAT I WANTED TO  CONVEY THE REALITY OF THAT SITUATION THAT SO MANY FOLKS  ARE STILL GOING THROUGH.

AND SO I GOT HELP FROM THE  RESEARCH INVESTIGATION AND POLICY SUBCOMMITTEE FROM THE  BOARD.

BUT FOR THE MOST PART, THIS  WAS MONTHS OF ME LOOKING THROUGH CITY DATA, GATHERING  REPORTS FROM FOLKS WHO LIVE OUTSIDE, TRYING TO FIGURE IT  OUT ALONG THE WAY.

IT WAS VERY MUCH A  HOME-GROWN PROJECT.

>> Jeff: GOTCHA.

IN A MOMENT I WANT TO GET INTO SOME OF THE SPECIFIC  WAYS THAT YOU FOUND THE CITY VIOLATING FOLKS' RIGHTS.

BUT ONE QUESTION I WANT TO ASK IS DID YOU SPEAK TO  ANYONE IN THE MAYOR'S OFFICE ABOUT THIS REPORT AS YOU  WERE PUTTING IT TOGETHER?

>> Dass: YES.

I SPOKE WITH AN ASSOCIATE CAO.

AND I SPOKE -- I'VE MET WITH A LOT OF DEPARTMENT  DIRECTORS FOR THE CITY.

I FOUND THAT ASKING  QUESTIONS EARLY ON MADE IT SO THAT, LIKE, ANYTHING THAT  WENT INTO THE REPORT WAS ALREADY VETTED BY THE CITY  PERSONNEL.

AND, YEAH.

I HAD A LOT OF PARTICIPATION FROM FOLKS IN THE CITY WHILE  MAKING THIS REPORT.

>> Jeff: OKAY.

I WANT TO ASK ABOUT THE ADMINISTRATION'S, THE TIM  KELLER ADMINISTRATION'S, REACTION TO THE DRAFT REPORT  WHEN IT CAME OUT.

THEY SORT OF CONVEYED IN A  NUMBER OF MEDIA INTERVIEWS THAT THEY WERE BLINDSIDED,  WERE YOU SURPRISED AT ALL BY THAT REACTION?

>> Dass: YEAH.

I WAS CONFUSED BY THE  REACTION.

BECAUSE THIS IS ALL I'VE  BEEN TALKING ABOUT WITH THE CITY FOR THE LAST SIX  MONTHS.

SO, THE IDEA THAT THEY WERE  BLINDSIDED IS CONFUSING.

AND I'M CURIOUS, LIKE, WHAT  WENT WRONG IN COMMUNICATION, OR IF THEY WERE EVEN TALKING  ABOUT THE SAME REPORT.

BECAUSE I'VE BEEN PRETTY  ONE-NOTE ABOUT THIS SINCE AT LEAST FEBRUARY.

BUT I'VE BEEN PRETTY ONE-NOTE ABOUT THIS SINCE  AUGUST OF 2022.

>> Jeff: OKAY.

LET'S GET INTO IT A LITTLE BIT HERE.

I WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT WE INTERVIEWED CITY ATTORNEY  LAUREN KEEFE THIS WEEK AS WELL.

AND SHE TOLD US THE CITY TOOK PARTICULAR EXCEPTION TO  THE FOLLOWING PASSAGE I'M ABOUT TO READ FROM THE  REPORT.

I'M QUOTING NOW, THE CITY'S  CONSTANT EFFORTS TO SWEEP ENCAMPMENTS ARE SUBJECT TO  PUBLIC SCRUTINY AS BEING EXPENSIVE, INEFFICIENT,  INHUMANE, CRUEL, UNUSUAL, UNPRODUCTIVE, TRAUMATIZING,  CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES THAT WORSEN ALREADY EXISTING  HOSTILITIES BETWEEN THE RESIDENTS AND THE PEOPLE  EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS.

CRIMINAL IS A PRETTY HEAVY  WORD TO USE IN THIS CONTEXT.

I WOULDN'T IMAGINE THAT YOU  DID SO LIGHTLY.

>> Dass: NO.

THAT IS A -- THAT'S SOMETHING I TAKE VERY  SERIOUSLY.

THE ENTIRE EXPERIENCE OF  BEING HOMELESS IN ALBUQUERQUE, IT FEELS LIKE  YOU'RE BEING ROBBED OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

AND IT FEELS LIKE YOU'RE BEING ABUSED.

I'M SAYING THAT FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

I'M NOT SPEAKING FOR THE BOARD.

AND THE BOARD DIDN'T APPROVE THAT PASSAGE, AT LEAST BY  NOW THEY HAVEN'T.

IT'S STILL BEING CONSIDERED.

YEAH, I STAND BEHIND EVERY WORD, AND I'M CURIOUS WHAT  THEIR OBJECTIONS WERE TO THAT.

>> Jeff: ESSENTIALLY, THAT YOU'RE ACCUSING CITY  EMPLOYEES OF COMMITTING CRIMES, AND FROM MS. KEEFE'S  PERSPECTIVE AT LEAST, SHE DIDN'T SEE WHAT SHE THOUGHT  TO BE A LOT OF EVIDENCE FOR THAT KIND OF AN ALLEGATION  IN THE REPORT, BUT IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THAT'S BASED ON  YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE AND THE SIX MONTHS OF WORK WITH  OTHER UNHOUSED FOLKS THAT YOU PUT IN TO COMPILE THE  REPORT.

>> Dass: YEAH.

THAT'S ALSO SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN PUBLIC INFORMATION  SINCE AT LEAST MAY 16th.

I WOULD SAY SINCE MARCH 1st,  BUT THE INJUNCTION WHEN IT WAS VACATED WAS PARTIALLY  VACATED BECAUSE THE CITY WOULD NOT FOLLOW IT.

I'M SO CONFUSED WHAT THE ARGUMENT IS THERE.

I THINK I WOULD HAVE TO SPEAK TO MS. KEEFE MYSELF TO  MAYBE TALK THAT THROUGH.

>> Jeff: OKAY.

I WANT TO GET TO NEXT STEPS IN A MOMENT.

THE REPORT OFFERS SEVERAL RECOMMENDATIONS INCLUDING  FOR EXAMPLE CHANGES TO THE ADMINISTRATION OF NARCAN,  CHANGES TO THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT'S STANDARD  OPERATING PROCEDURES, AND THEN THERE ARE  RECOMMENDATIONS FOR DEEPER MORE SYSTEMIC CHANGES TOO.

AND THOSE INCLUDE ADDING HOUSING STATUS TO THE CITY'S  HATE CRIME ORDINANCE, AND THE ADOPTION OF A HOMELESS  RIGHTS ORDINANCE.

I WANT TO TOUCH ON THOSE  LAST TWO IN PARTICULAR.

STARTING WITH THE HATE CRIME  ORDINANCE.

WHY DID THE BOARD INCLUDE  THAT AS A RECOMMENDATION?

>> Dass: SO THAT  RECOMMENDATION IS ACTUALLY THE ONLY ONE THAT THE BOARD  HAS APPROVED THUS FAR.

THE REST ARE STILL BEING  CONSIDERED.

IT WAS SOMETHING THAT CAME  FROM TALKING WITH PEOPLE WHO LIVE OUTSIDE.

THEY EXPERIENCE A LOT OF THEFT.

THEY EXPERIENCE A LOT OF ABUSE FROM -- I DON'T KNOW.

FROM ALL SIDES, REALLY.

THE AMOUNT OF FOLKS THAT  I'VE WORKED WITH WHO ARE ROBBED REGULARLY, AND  RECENTLY THERE HAS BEEN UPWARD TREND OR INCREASE IN  THE REPORTS OF RANDOM ACTS OF VIOLENCE COMMITTED  AGAINST PEOPLE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS.

AND THIS IS ALSO SOMETHING THAT THE CITY HAS CONSIDERED  IN THE PAST.

THE NATIVE AMERICAN  HOMELESSNESS TASK FORCE, BACK IN 2015, MADE THE SAME  RECOMMENDATION.

>> Jeff: I REMEMBER THAT.

I WANT TO BE CLEAR THOUGH WHEN YOU SAY ALL SIDES, IN  TERMS OF FOLKS WHO LIVE OUTSIDE TAKING IT FROM ALL  SIDES, YOU MEAN POTENTIALLY OTHER UNHOUSED FOLKS, OTHER  PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST OUT IN THE WORLD, AND THE CITY  GOVERNMENT, YES?

>> Dass: I'M NOT ALLEGING  ANY HATE CRIMES FROM CITY GOVERNMENT.

I WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.

THAT WAS A POINT OF  CONFUSION IN A FEW RECENT DISCUSSIONS.

AND ALSO, WITH HATE CRIMES ORDINANCE CRIMES BETWEEN TWO  PEOPLE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS IS UNLIKELY TO  BE CONSIDERED A HATE CRIME BASED ON HOUSING STATUS.

BUT ALL OF THAT TO SAY THAT ABUSE AND MISTREATMENT ARE  COMING FROM ALL OF THOSE PLACES.

FROM OTHER UNHOUSED FOLKS, FROM HOUSED FOLKS RANDOMLY  IN THE STREETS, FROM CITY EMPLOYEES, FROM SECURITY  GUARDS FROM APD, FROM MSD.

IT'S CONSTANT.

>> Jeff: OKAY.

LET'S MOVE TO THE HOMELESS  RIGHTS ORDINANCE RECOMMENDATION, WHICH AGAIN,  THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT ONE HASN'T BEEN  APPROVED YET.

WHY, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE  AT LEAST, IS SOMETHING LIKE THAT NECESSARY, AND WHAT  MIGHT IT LOOK LIKE?

>> Dass: I THINK IT'S  NECESSARY BECAUSE THE KINDS OF CONVERSATIONS THAT OCCUR  WHEN A BOARD OR COMMITTEE OF PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T  EXPERIENCED HOMELESSNESS ARE DISCUSSING HOMELESSNESS  IS BECOMES WHERE WE PUT THIS FUNDING -- LIKE IT'S VERY  BROAD AND THERE'S NO HUMAN TOUCH TO IT.

I IMAGINED IT AS PEOPLE, SUCH AS MYSELF, WHO HAVE  RECENT EXPERIENCE OF HOMELESSNESS OR RECENT  EXPERIENCE OF LIVING IN POVERTY SERVING AS A MEANS  OF OVERSIGHT FOR SERVICE PROVIDERS.

AND ADVISORY COUNCIL.

THEY WOULD BE THERE TO  ASSIST WITH THESE EFFORTS TO PROVIDE QUALITY SERVICES.

AND HOPEFULLY TO ADVOCATE FOR BETTER TREATMENT FROM  ALREADY ESTABLISHED PARTS OF THE CITY.

>> Jeff: GOTCHA.

I APPRECIATE YOUR MENTION OF  THE HUMAN TOUCH.

I FEEL LIKE THESE ISSUES  OFTEN GET SORT OF PAINTED WITH THAT VERY ANTISEPTIC  BRUSH IN THE NEWS MEDIA AS WELL.

I DON'T KNOW THAT'S PARTICULARLY HELPING ANY OF  THESE CONVERSATIONS.

MY LAST QUESTION IS THIS,  WHAT ARE THE NEXT STEPS FOR THIS WORK, FOR THE BOARD,  AND FOR THIS REPORT?

>> Dass: BASED ON THE  ADMINISTRATION'S RESPONSE TO THE DRAFT THAT WAS INCLUDED  IN THE AGENDA FOR LAST MONTH, I'VE DECIDED TO SPEND  THIS MONTH INVITING EVERYONE FROM THE CITY TO COME AND  ATTEND THE NEXT MEETING AND PARTICIPATE IN MAKING A  DRAFT THAT IS ABLE TO BE RECEIVED FRIENDLY.

LIKE, I'VE SPENT THE LAST SIX MONTHS MEETING WITH THE  CITY AND INVITING FOLKS TO MEETINGS.

AND I'VE HAD MINIMAL PARTICIPATION.

AND I'M HOPING THAT CHANGES SO THAT WE CAN REALLY BUILD  SOMETHING POSITIVE TOGETHER.

MY GOAL WAS NOT TO MAKE ANY  ALLEGATIONS.

I DON'T WANT TO END UP IN  COURT, BUT YEAH.

HOPEFULLY THE CITY  FACILITATES DISCUSSIONS AND PARTICIPATES IN DISCUSSIONS  FOR MAKING IT THE BEST IT CAN BE.

>> Jeff: WHEN AND WHERE IS THAT MEETING, AND IS IT OPEN  TO THE PUBLIC?

>> Dass: IT IS OPEN TO THE  PUBLIC.

IT IS ON AUGUST 15th AT 5  P.M.

IN CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS.

>> Jeff: ANAMI DASS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH  US THIS WEEK.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> Dass: FOR SURE.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Jeff: WHILE WORKING ON THIS EPISODE, WE KNEW WE  WANTED TO SPEAK WITH SOMEONE FROM ALBUQUERQUE MAYOR TIM  KELLER'S ADMINISTRATION.

CITY ATTORNEY LAUREN KEEFE  JOINED ME EARLIER THIS WEEK TO DISCUSS THE CITY'S  OFFICIAL ENCAMPMENT ENCLOSER POLICY AND RESPOND TO CLAIMS  FROM THE ALBUQUERQUE HUMAN RIGHTS BOARD THAT THE CITY'S  RECENT SWEEPS OF ENCAMPMENTS VIOLATE UNHOUSED PEOPLE'S  RIGHTS.

ALBUQUERQUE CITY ATTORNEY  LAUREN KEEFE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME ON NEW MEXICO IN  FOCUS THIS WEEK.

>> Keefe: THANKS FOR HAVING  ME.

>> Jeff: I'D LIKE TO START  WITH A BIT OF AN OVERVIEW OF MAYOR TIM KELLER'S POLICIES  WHEN IT COMES TO REMOVING HOMELESS PEOPLE FROM PUBLIC  PROPERTY.

HOW MUCH NOTICE DO CITY  EMPLOYEES GIVE WHEN RESPONDING TO A CALL TO  CLEAR AN ENCAMPMENT?

>> Keefe: THAT WILL OFTEN  DEPEND ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

IT'S NOT ONE ANSWER FOR  EVERY ENCAMPMENT.

BUT OUR GENERAL POLICY HAS  BEEN 72 HOURS, AND WE TRY TO ABIDE BY THAT ON MOST  LOCATIONS.

WE ARE -- I SHOULD SAY THE  CITY ADMINISTRATION IS IN THE PROCESS OF EVALUATING  THAT AND HOW MUCH NOTICE IS NECESSARY FOR VARIOUS TYPES  OF ENCAMPMENTS.

NOT EVERY ENCAMPMENT IS THE  SAME.

SO, WHAT THEY'RE REALLY  LOOKING AT IS WHAT THE APPROPRIATE LEVEL OF NOTICE  IN EACH TYPE OF AREA AND EACH TYPE OF CIRCUMSTANCES  INCLUDING WHAT KIND OF ACTIVITIES ARE OCCURRING,  WHERE THE ENCAMPMENT IS, HOW CLOSE IT IS TO A SCHOOL,  THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> Jeff: GOTCHA.

OF COURSE, IN JUNE THE U.S. SUPREME COURT RULED LOCAL  ORDINANCES WITH PENALTIES FOR CAMPING ON PUBLIC LAND  DO NOT CONSTITUTE CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT UNDER THE  EIGHTH AMENDMENT.

HAS THE CITY CHANGED ITS  APPROACH TO CLEARING ENCAMPMENTS SINCE THAT  RULING?

>> Keefe: IT HAS NOT.

IT HAS BEEN, EVEN BEFORE THAT RULING, EVALUATING ITS  PROCESSES AND EVALUATING HOW IT SHOULD CONTINUE TO  RESPOND.

BUT THERE WAS NO IMMEDIATE  CHANGE IN ANY OF THE CITY'S PRACTICES.

I WILL SAY SOME PEOPLE HAVE HAD THE PERCEPTION THAT  SOMETHING IS DIFFERENT.

PEOPLE HAVE ASKED US THAT.

BUT JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, WE DIDN'T IMMEDIATELY  MATERIALIZE MORE STAFF.

WE DIDN'T CONDUCT ANY MORE  CLEARINGS THAN WE HAD BEEN DOING BEFORE.

WE HAD THE SAME CREWS BEFORE THE GRANTS PASS DECISION.

WE HAD THE SAME PROCESSES BEFORE THE GRANTS PASS  DECISION.

AND WE'RE CONTINUING THOSE.

BUT EVALUATING THE BEST WAY TO KEEP CITY PROPERTY CLEAR  FOR ITS APPROPRIATE FUNCTION, WHILE ALSO TRYING  TO PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF THE UNHOUSED AND ENCOURAGE THE  UNHOUSED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE SHELTER OPPORTUNITIES  THAT ARE AVAILABLE.

>> Jeff: I AGREE THAT  PERCEPTION EXISTS.

I'VE CERTAINLY HEARD  ANECDOTALLY FROM PROVIDERS AND OTHERS THAT IT DOES FEEL  LIKE SOMETHING IS DIFFERENT.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE THAT SORT  OF EVALUATION PROCESS JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE?

CAN YOU GIVE VIEWERS A SENSE OF HOW THE CITY IS GOING  ABOUT EVALUATING ITS PRACTICES AND POLICIES?

>> Keefe: YES.

THERE'S BEEN A SMALL GROUP  DIRECTORS AND OTHERS CONVENED.

WE STARTED WITH THE EXISTING WRITTEN POLICY AND STARTED  LOOKING AT WHAT OUR CURRENT PRACTICES AND WHAT WE CAN  AND CANNOT DO.

AND ALSO WHAT OUR PRIORITIES  ARE IN TERMS OF LOCATION.

IN TERMS OF SOME LOCATIONS  WHERE IT'S IMPORTANT TO KEEP THE AREA CLEAR AND TO KEEP  IT CLEAR IMMEDIATELY VERSUS LOCATIONS WHERE THERE CAN BE  SOME LEEWAY TO ALLOW AN ENCAMPMENT FOR SOME PERIOD  OF TIME.

AND ALSO WHAT'S WORKING IN  TERMS OF ENCOURAGING PEOPLE GO INTO THE SHELTERS THAT  ARE AVAILABLE, AND OUR ABILITY TO STAND UP BEDS AS  NEEDED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE ENOUGH BEDS FOR ANYBODY  WHO DOES WANT THEM.

THERE'S BEEN A SMALL GROUP  MEETING.

THEY WERE LOOKING AT THE  POLICY.

WE'RE LOOKING AT THE WRITTEN  NOTICE AND WHAT IT SHOULD AND SHOULD NOT SAY.

AND WE'RE LOOKING AT HOW WE CAN COLLECT DATA BECAUSE  VERY OFTEN WE GET SO MANY QUESTIONS ABOUT OUR  PRACTICES AND WE HAVE QUITE A BIT OF DATA WE COLLECT.

WE'RE LOOKING AT A WAY WE CAN GATHER IT AND BE ABLE TO  COMMUNICATE MORE EFFECTIVELY ON OUR PROCESSES WHEN WE DO  GET THESE QUESTIONS.

>> Jeff: OKAY.

I WANT TO SHIFT GEARS A LITTLE BIT.

WE KNOW THAT WHEN IT COMES TO HOMELESS ENCAMPMENTS  SOMETIMES ALBUQUERQUE COMMUNITY SAFETY RESPONDS,  AND IN OTHER CASES IT'S APD.

WHAT ARE THE CRITERIA FOR  DECIDING WHICH OF THOSE TWO ENTITIES RESPONDS TO A CALL?

>> Keefe: SO, ACS WILL GENERALLY RESPOND WHEN  THERE'S ANY KIND OF INDICATION THERE'S SOMEBODY  HAVING A BEHAVIORAL HEALTH CRISIS.

IF THERE'S A CALL INTO 311 AND THERE'S ANY INDICATION  OF THAT, THEY WILL GENERALLY DISPATCH ACS.

THE EXCEPTION WILL BE IF THERE'S ANY KIND OF DANGER.

IF THE PERSON HAS A WEAPON, OR IF THERE'S ANY OTHER  FACTOR THAT MIGHT LEAD US TO BELIEVE THERE'S DANGER,THEN  WE'LL NEED TO SEND APD OUT.

ACS HAS A TEAM NOW THAT DOES  PROACTIVE OUTREACH.

SO, IN ADDITION TO  RESPONDING TO 311 CALLS IT DOES PROACTIVE OUTREACH TO  ENCAMPMENTS AND OTHER UNHOUSED INDIVIDUALS WITHIN  THE CITY.

AGAIN, TO TRY TO ENCOURAGE  THEM TO GET INTO SHELTERS, TRY AND WORK WITH THEM TO  FIND OUT WHAT THE BARRIERS ARE AND SEE IF THEY CAN BE  CONNECTED WITH SERVICES.

APD DOES NOT DO ANY OF THAT  PROACTIVE ENGAGEMENT WITH THE UNHOUSED POPULATION.

BUT TO BE CLEAR, THE PEOPLE WHO PRIMARILY DEAL WITH  ENCAMPMENTS ARE EMPLOYEES OF THE HEALTH, HOUSING AND  HOMELESSNESS DEPARTMENT AND WHAT WE CALL THE INTERACTION  TEAM.

IT'S THE INTERACTION TEAM  THAT RESPONDS TO A CALL OF AN ENCAMPMENT.

THAT THEY GO OUT, THAT THEY MAKE AN OFFER OF SHELTER TO  THOSE INDIVIDUALS.

AND IF THOSE INDIVIDUALS  ACCEPT, ACS WILL PROVIDE TRANSPORTATION.

IF THEY DO NOT ACCEPT, THAT'S WHEN THEY WILL  RECEIVE NOTICE OF THIS IS INTENT TO CLEAR ENCAMPMENT  OR CLEAR AN AREA.

AND IT WILL BE GIVEN A  WRITTEN NOTICE AND INFORMED AS TO WHEN THE CITY WILL  TAKE ITS ACTION TO CLEAR THAT AREA.

SO PEOPLE OFTEN TALK ABOUT ACS AND APD, AND I DO ALWAYS  WANT TO CLARIFY IT'S NOT REALLY EITHER OF THOSE OUT  THERE GIVING NOTICE.

ANOTHER THING THAT I THINK  MIGHT BE IMPORTANT TO CLEAR UP BECAUSE I GET THE  QUESTION A LOT OR THE CITY DOES A LOT, THEY'LL SAY THAT  WE SAW THE CITY CLEARING AN ENCAMPMENT AND NO ONE WAS  THERE ASKING IF THEY WANTED SHELTER.

AND THAT'S NOT THE STAGE OF THE PROCESS WHERE WE MAKE  THAT OFFER.

WE MAKE THAT OFFER AT THE  OUTSET WHEN WE'RE GIVING NOTICE.

IF THE PEOPLE DECLINE AND WE THEN GIVE THEM NOTICE, THEN  LATER SOLID WASTE COMES ALONG AND DOES THE  CLEARANCE, AND WE MAY OR MAY NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE ANOTHER  OFFER OF SHELTER, BUT IT'S THE BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS  AND THE END OF THE PROCESS WHEN WE DO THAT.

>> Jeff: I APPRECIATE THE CLARIFICATION, LAUREN.

WHO IS MAKING THAT CALL?

IS IT SOMEONE IN THE  DISPATCH CENTER IN TERMS OF LIKE THE DECISION ON WHO  GOES FIRST, WHO GOES MAYBE ON A SUBSEQUENT CALL?

WHEN THAT CALL COMES INTO 311 OR 911 WHO IS MAKING THE  DECISION ON WHO RESPONDS?

>> Keefe: SO THERE'S A  COUPLE OF DIFFERENT PROCESSES IN PLAY, BUT WHEN  THERE'S A CALL TO 311 JUST REPORTING THE FACT OF AN  ENCAMPMENT, WHICH WE GET HUNDREDS OF CALLS EVERY WEEK  JUST REPORTING THE FACT THAT AN ENCAMPMENT HAS FORMED.

ALL OF THOSE ENCAMPMENT CALLS GO TO THE INTERACTION  TEAM.

IF THERE'S A 911 CALL, THE  OPERATOR -- OR 311 CALL, THE OPERATORS MAY DISPATCH ACS  IF THEY THINK ACS WOULD BE THE APPROPRIATE RESPONDER.

AGAIN, IF IT'S A MATTER OF SOMEONE IS HAVING A  BEHAVIORAL HEALTH CRISIS.

THAT PERSON MAY OR MAY NOT  BE UNHOUSED.

ACS -- WHEN ACS IS  RESPONDING TO A CALL, A 311 CALL, OR 911 CALL, IT'S NOT  BECAUSE THERE'S AN UNHOUSED PERSON IT'S BECAUSE THERE'S  A PERSON HAVING A BEHAVIORAL HEALTH CRISIS.

THAT PERSON MAY BE UNHOUSED AND ACS WILL THEN ENGAGE IN  ITS PROCESSES.

APD WILL BE DISPATCHED IF  THERE'S ANY KIND OF DANGER.

BUT AS I SAID, ACS ALSO HAS  A SEPARATE TEAM THAT DOES PROACTIVE OUTREACH TO THE  UNHOUSED COMMUNITY.

>> Jeff: AND SO, FOR PEOPLE  WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND THE WAY DISPATCHERS WORK AND THE WAY  THEY'RE LICENSED IN THE STATE, ARE THEY TRAINED  SPECIFICALLY ON THINGS TO LOOK FOR WHEN THEY'RE MAKING  THAT DECISION ON WHO TO  SEND?

>> Keefe: THEY ARE, AND THEY  HAVE BEEN SINCE ACS WAS CREATED.

THE CITY WILL REVISE ITS SCRIPT FROM TIME TO TIME TO  ENSURE THAT THE OPERATORS, WHETHER IT'S 311 OR 911, ARE  DIRECTING THE APPROPRIATE CALLS TO ACS, AND AS MANY  CALLS AS THEY CAN.

WHILE ALSO ENSURING THE  APPROPRIATE CALLS ARE SENT TO APD IF THERE'S ANY REASON  TO BELIEVE THERE'S GOING TO BE ANY KIND OF DANGEROUS  SITUATION WHERE APD IS REQUIRED.

>> Jeff: NOW, DURING A RECENT TOWN HALL IN  ALBUQUERQUE GOVERNOR GOVERNOR LUJAN GRISHAM WAS  ASKED ABOUT CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR GAVIN NEWSOM'S  EXECUTIVE ORDER CALLING FOR THE SHUTDOWN OF ENCAMPMENTS  ON STATE PROPERTY, AND URGING LOCAL JURISDICTIONS  TO DO THE SAME.

OUR GOVERNOR SAID SHE WAS  QUOTE, LOOKING AT THAT ORDER CAREFULLY, END QUOTE.

SHE ALSO SAID MAYOR KELLER, QUOTE, IS VERY INTERESTED IN  HOW WE MIGHT WORK TOGETHER ON A CONCEPT, END QUOTE.

HAVE THE MAYOR AND GOVERNOR HAD ANY CONVERSATIONS ABOUT  DEVELOPING SOMETHING LIKE WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN  CALIFORNIA?

>> Keefe: I DON'T KNOW IF I  CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

I CERTAINLY KNOW THAT BEFORE  THAT TOWN HALL THEY HAD CERTAIN CONVERSATIONS AFTER  GOVERNOR NEWSOM ISSUED THAT ORDER AS WELL.

AND WE LOOKED AT SOME ORDERS THAT HAD BEEN ISSUED BY  OTHER CITIES.

BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE  CONTINUING CONVERSATIONS.

I CERTAINLY KNOW THAT THE  MAYOR WANTS TO PARTNER WITH THE GOVERNOR TO MAKE SURE  THAT THERE IS A COHERENT, EFFECTIVE RESPONSE TO  ENCAMPMENTS WITHIN THE CITY.

>> Jeff: WHAT MIGHT THIS  LOOK LIKE IF THE MAYOR WERE ABLE TO SIT DOWN WITH A  LEGAL PAD AND SKETCH IT OUT HIMSELF AND PRESENT IT TO  THE GOVERNOR?

>> Keefe: I CAN'T SPEAK FOR  THE MAYOR.

I DON'T KNOW.

I DO KNOW THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT OTHER CITIES.

SO, I ACTUALLY THINK WE'RE TRYING TO ANSWER THAT  QUESTION.

I WOULD SAY THAT I DON'T  KNOW WHAT'S IN HIS MIND, BUT I ALSO DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN  ANSWER THAT QUESTION RIGHT NOW.

WE HAVE LOOKED AT A NUMBER OF OTHER CITIES TO SEE IF WE  CAN DEVELOP BEST PRACTICES OR THE BEST MODEL THAT WOULD  MOST CLOSELY FIT ALBUQUERQUE TO SEE IF WE CAN, AGAIN,  COME UP WITH A PRACTICE THAT DOES ITS BEST TO ENCOURAGE  PEOPLE TO UTILIZE SHELTER.

BUT ALSO MAKE SURE THAT  THERE AREN'T ENCAMPMENTS IN SENSITIVE AREAS WITHIN THE  CITY.

>> Jeff: LATE LAST MONTH,  THE ALBUQUERQUE HUMAN RIGHTS BOARD ISSUED A PRELIMINARY  REPORT ON THE CITY'S HANDLING OF HOMELESSNESS AND  FOUND THE CITY ROUTINELY VIOLATES THE AUTONOMY,  DIGNITY, AND RIGHTS OF UNHOUSED INDIVIDUALS.

WHAT IS THE CITY'S REACTION  TO THAT REPORT?

>> Keefe: THE REPORT WAS  DISAPPOINTING IN MANY WAYS.

BUT THE PRIMARY ONE IS THAT  THE HUMAN RIGHTS BOARD PROVIDED NEITHER THE CITY  NOR ITS WORKERS ANY OPPORTUNITY TO RESPOND TO  ANY ALLEGATIONS OR ANY SPECIFIC CLAIMS BEFORE  ISSUING THIS REPORT.

AND THE HUMAN RIGHTS BOARD  HELD A PUBLIC FORUM, WHICH THE CITY ALLOWED IT TO DO,  AND CREATED A TRANSCRIPT OF THAT FORUM, BUT THEN REACHED  SOME CONCLUSIONS THAT AREN'T SUPPORTED BY THAT  TRANSCRIPT.

IT MADE SOME VERY BROAD,  VERY SERIOUS ACCUSATIONS AGAINST PEOPLE WHO ARE  EMPLOYED BY THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE THAT AREN'T  SUPPORTED BY THAT TRANSCRIPT AND WITHOUT GIVING THOSE  WORKERS A CHANCE TO RESPOND.

AND I THINK THAT WE EXPECT  MORE FROM ALL OF OUR BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS AS WE WOULD  FROM ANY CITY DEPARTMENT.

ANY CITY DEPARTMENT THAT WAS  MAKING ACCUSATIONS, WE WOULD EXPECT THEM TO CONDUCT AN  APPROPRIATE LEVEL OF DUE DILIGENCE, AND I DON'T THINK  THAT HAPPENED HERE.

>> Jeff: OKAY.

I WANT TO START WITH SORT OF THE IDEA THAT YOU GUYS FELT  BLINDSIDED BY THIS A LITTLE BIT.

THERE WERE MULTIPLE EMPLOYEES FROM THE MAYOR'S  OFFICE CITED IN THE ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS SECTION OF  THAT REPORT.

I WONDER IF YOU FEEL LIKE  THOSE WERE IMPROPER ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS, OR WAS THE  MAYOR'S OFFICE INVOLVED BEFORE THIS REPORT WAS  RELEASED?

>> Keefe: I'M NOT AWARE THAT  THE MAYOR'S OFFICE IS INVOLVED IN THE DEVELOPMENT  OF THIS REPORT.

>> Jeff: OKAY.

>> Keefe: I'M NOT SURE IT IS THAT -- WHAT MS. DASS WAS  ACKNOWLEDGING WHEN SHE INCLUDED THOSE  ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS.

>> Jeff: OKAY.

EXCUSE ME.

WHEN YOU MENTIONED SOME OF THE REALLY SERIOUS  ACCUSATIONS THAT WERE LAID OUT IN THAT REPORT, CAN YOU  TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE ONES THAT IN PARTICULAR SORT OF  STUCK IN Y'ALL'S CRAW?

>> Keefe: I DON'T KNOW IF I  WOULD USE THE PHRASE STUCK IN THE CRAW.

BUT I THINK THE THINGS THAT JUMPED OUT IS THAT THEY USED  THE WORD CRIMINAL.

THEY ACCUSED CITY EMPLOYEES  OF ENGAGING IN CRIMINAL CONDUCT WITHOUT SPECIFYING  WHAT IT IS THAT THEY BELIEVED IS CRIMINAL,  IDENTIFYING ANY ACTIONS THAT WOULD BE CRIMINAL, AND AGAIN  WITHOUT GIVING ANYONE AN OPPORTUNITY TO RESPOND TO  THE ACCUSATION THAT THEIR CONDUCT WAS CRIMINAL.

SO, THAT ONE REALLY JUMPED OUT AT ME.

ALSO, THEY CONCLUDED, SOMEHOW, THAT THE CITY HAD  VIOLATED THE INJUNCTION THAT WAS ISSUED BACK IN SEPTEMBER  OF 2023.

THAT INJUNCTION HAS BEEN  VACATED RETROACTIVELY.

BUT ALSO, THE CITY WORKED  DILIGENTLY TO COMPLY WITH THE INJUNCTION WHILE AT THE  SAME TIME LETTING BOTH THE DISTRICT COURT JUDGE AND NEW  MEXICO SUPREME COURT JUDGE KNOW THAT IT WAS VAGUE AND  UNCLEAR AND IN SOME WAYS NOT POSSIBLE TO COMPLY WITH.

WE EVENTUALLY, YOU KNOW, EVENTUALLY THE DISTRICT  COURT JUDGE VACATED ALL HIS OWN.

WITHOUT A SUBSEQUENT MOTION FROM THE CITY.

AND THE BASIS FOR THAT INJUNCTION HAS NOW BEEN  INVALIDATED BY THE U.S. SUPREME COURT DECISION.

REGARDLESS, WE WORKED VERY HARD TO COMPLY WITH IT.

AND WE IN FACT ARE CONTINUING THE SAME  PROCESSES WE DEVELOPED WHILE THE INJUNCTION WAS IN PLACE,  EVEN AFTER THE INJUNCTION WAS VACATED AND EVEN AFTER  THE GRANTS PASS DECISION.

SOME OF THE SPECIFIC  EXAMPLES THAT ARE CITED ARE NOT VIOLATIONS OF THE  INJUNCTION.

SO, IT WAS DISTURBING TO SEE  A BOARD REACH THAT CONCLUSION AND REACH IT  ERRONEOUSLY.

>> Jeff: YOU'VE GOT SOME  METHODOLOGY CONCERNS AMONG OTHER CONCERNS, IT SOUNDS  LIKE.

I WONDER IS THE  ADMINISTRATION LOOKING AT THE REPORT SERIOUSLY FOR ANY  POTENTIAL IMPROVEMENTS TO ITS POLICIES AND PRACTICES  AROUND ADDRESSING THIS ISSUE?

>> Keefe: THE ADMINISTRATION IS LOOKING AT THE REPORT  SERIOUSLY.

WE LOOK AT EVERYTHING  SERIOUSLY.

AGAIN, WE WERE ALSO IN THE  PROCESS OF EVALUATING OUR POLICIES AND PRACTICES AT  THE TIME THIS REPORT CAME OUT.

WE HAD BEEN FOR MONTHS.

WE HAVE BEEN -- WE HAVE BEEN  THROUGHOUT THE INJUNCTION PERIOD, SINCE THE INJUNCTION  STARTED, WE HAVE BEEN HAVING DISCUSSIONS AND HONING OUR  PROCESSES TO DO THE BEST JOB WE CAN TO PROTECT THE RIGHTS  OF UNHOUSED WHILE ALSO KEEPING SENSITIVE AREAS  CLEAR.

WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS  THE WHOLE TIME, BUT HAD BEEN REALLY MAKING CONCERTED  EFFORT IN THE PAST FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS TO LOOK AT OUR  PRACTICES AND DECIDE HOW TO MOVE FORWARD WHEN THIS  REPORT CAME.

SO, YES, WE WILL CERTAINLY  LOOK AT THAT REPORT.

WE HAVE REVIEWED THE  TESTIMONY THAT WAS GIVEN.

A LOT OF THE TESTIMONY  REALLY RAISED CONCERNS ABOUT THE DANGERS OF LIVING IN  ENCAMPMENTS AS OPPOSED TO CONCERNS ABOUT CITY CONDUCT  THAT EMPHASIZED THE NEED TO CLEAR ENCAMPMENTS AND GET  PEOPLE INTO SAFER SPACES THAN THEY ARE WHEN THEY'RE  LIVING IN THE STREETS.

>> Jeff: ALBUQUERQUE CITY  ATTORNEY LAUREN KEEFE, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU BEING  WITH ME THIS WEEK.

THANKS FOR YOUR TIME.

>> Keefe: THANKS.

>> Jeff: LET'S RETURN ONE  MORE TIME TO LOU'S CONVERSATION AT THE VIRTUAL  ROUNDTABLE.

WHERE OUR GUESTS BEGIN BY  REACTING TO OUR INTERVIEW WITH CITY ATTORNEY LAUREN  KEEFE.

>> Lou: PETER CUBRA,  COUNCILOR NICHOLE ROGERS, RACHEL BIGGS, THANK YOU  AGAIN FOR BEING ON.

LET'S JUMP RIGHT INTO IT  THOUGH.

YOU THREE HAVE SEEN JEFF'S  INTERVIEW WITH CITY ATTORNEY LAUREN KEEFE, AND OUR  AUDIENCE JUST SAW IT TOO.

PETER, I'LL START WITH YOU.

I'M CURIOUS ABOUT YOUR REACTION TO HOW MS. KEEFE  CHARACTERIZED THE CITY'S POLICIES AND OVERALL  APPROACH TO UNHOUSED FOLKS.

DOES IT MATCH WHAT YOU'RE  SEEING?

>> Cubra: NOT AT ALL.

TWO THINGS.

I WENT THIS MORNING ONTO THE  CITY'S OWN WEBSITE, THEY HAVE A HOMELESSNESS  DASHBOARD.

ANY OF YOU CAN LOOK AT IT.

AND THEY ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THERE WERE 1,111, QUOTE,  ACTIONS ON ILLEGAL ENCAMPMENTS IN THE MONTH OF  JUNE ALONE.

NOW, TWO YEARS AGO WHEN THIS  CONTROVERSY REALLY CAME TO A HEAD, THE MAYOR SAID  PUBLICLY THAT THERE HAD BEEN 200 IN THE YEAR 2022.

AND THEIR OWN STATISTICS FROM JANUARY CLAIMED 800 IN  JANUARY OF 2024.

AND THEIR OWN STATISTICS SAY  1,111 IN JUNE ALONE.

THEY HAVEN'T PUBLISHED THE  JULY STATISTICS, BUT AS WITH COUNCILOR ROGERS, WE HOLD  MONTHLY STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS AMONG PEOPLE WHO ARE  UNHOUSED AND THEIR ADVOCATES.

100% OF THE PEOPLE SAY THEY HAVE OBSERVED A VAST  INCREASE SINCE THE GRANTS PASS DECISION.

SO, COUNCILOR ROGERS'S VIEW IS THE SAME AS EVERY OTHER  PERSON I KNOW WHO WORKS ON BEHALF OF UNHOUSED PEOPLE.

THE OTHER ASPECT THAT I AM SEEING AS CLEAR EVIDENCE  THAT WHAT'S BEEN REPRESENTED IS NOT ACCURATE IS THAT I  SPENT LAST THURSDAY AT THE BERNALILLO COUNTY  METROPOLITAN DETENTION CENTER, THE JAIL, AND I WAS  TOLD BY THE MENTAL HEALTH STAFF THERE THAT THEIR  CENSUS AT THAT JAIL HAS GONE UP 300 PEOPLE IN 2024 FROM  THE BEGINNING THROUGH LAST WEEK.

THAT THERE ARE NOW 891 PEOPLE ON THE MENTAL HEALTH  CASELOAD AS OF LAST WEEK, AND THERE WERE SIX HUNDRED  IN DECEMBER.

AND THAT THEIR UNDERSTANDING  OF WHO THEIR OWN PATIENTS ARE IS LARGELY HOMELESS  PEOPLE, MANY OF WHOM ARE CHARGED WITH PETTY OFFENSES  BY THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND BOOKED ON  THOSE.

SO, I WOULD REFUTE WHAT THE  CITY SAID AND ASK THEM TO SHOW US SOME STATISTICS TO  BACK UP THEIR STORY.

>> Lou: RACHEL, I WANT TO GO  TO YOU NEXT.

LAST MONTH, THE ALBUQUERQUE  HUMAN RIGHTS BOARD TRIED TO COMPILE SOME STATISTICS  THEMSELVES AND THEY PUBLISHED A DRAFT REPORT  ANALYZING THE CITY'S HANDLING OF HOMELESS PEOPLE  IN THE CITY.

A DRAFT OF THAT REPORT  EQUATES THE CITY'S NO-NOTICE ENCAMPMENT CLOSURES TO THEFT  AND ACTUALLY ACCUSES SOME CITY EMPLOYEES OF COMMITTING  CRIMES AGAINST UNHOUSED FOLKS.

WHAT WAS YOUR ORGANIZATION'S REACTION TO THAT REPORT, AND  DID YOU FIND IT ACCURATE?

>> Biggs: I THINK IT'S HARD  WHEN WE SEE REPORTS WITH ANECDOTES AND CERTAINLY WE  HEAR THESE STORIES EVERY DAY FROM OUR CLIENTS.

AS I REFERENCED EARLIER IN OUR INTERVIEW, WE HAVE BEEN  HEARING THESE STATEMENTS FOR YEARS.

CERTAINLY, WE SEE TRENDS WHERE THINGS INCREASE AND  DECREASE, AND WE'RE SEEING SOME OF THOSE TRENDS, BUT WE  DON'T HAVE THE DATA HERE AT HEALTH CARE FOR THE HOMELESS  TO SUBSTANTIATE IT.

SO WHAT WE'RE DOING, BECAUSE  WE ALWAYS WANT TO SEE THE EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE  STORIES I THINK THAT SHOWS THE BIGGER PICTURE, WE WANT  BOTH TOGETHER TO SHOW BOTH ARE IMPORTANT.

WE STARTED INCIDENT REPORTING SYSTEM WHERE WE'RE  COLLECTING THESE INCIDENTS THAT ARE HAPPENING SO THAT  WE CAN ACTUALLY BATCH AND TREND WHAT WE'RE SEEING ON  THE STREET AND BE ABLE TO REPORT IN A MORE CONSISTENT  MATTER AND HAVE THE DATA TO SUBSTANTIATE ALL THE STORIES  WE HEAR.

BUT CERTAINLY WE HEAR FROM  OUR CLIENTS STORIES EVERY DAY.

I THINK THE BIGGEST THING WE HEAR IS A LOT OF CONFUSION.

PEOPLE ARE REALLY CONFUSED ABOUT WHAT'S THE POLICY  TODAY, WHAT'S IN PLACE, IS THERE STORAGE, DO I HAVE  NOTICE.

SO, AS ADVOCATES AND OUR  ROLE TO WORK WITH OUR CLIENTS AND UPHOLD THEIR  RIGHTS, JUST ASKING THE QUESTIONS AS MUCH AS WE CAN,  WHAT'S THE STATUS TODAY, WHAT'S THE POLICY, TRYING TO  GET THAT INFORMATION OUT TO OUR CLIENTS.

BUT PEOPLE ARE ON THE STREET JUST TRYING TO SURVIVE RIGHT  NOW.

AND IT'S A REALLY INTENSE  ENVIRONMENT AND THE LANGUAGE AND THE RHETORIC IS WHAT  WE'RE MOST CONCERNED ABOUT.

THE POLARIZATION OF THE  ISSUES CREATES A REALLY DANGEROUS ENVIRONMENT FOR  FOLKS LIVING ON THE STREET.

I REFERENCED MORTALITY DATA.

PEOPLE BEING VIOLENTLY VICTIMIZED WHILE LIVING ON  THE STREET.

WE KNOW 25 TIMES MORE LIKELY  THAN SOMEONE THAT'S HOUSED.

WE'RE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT  JUST THE RHETORIC THAT'S COMING OUT FROM THE  RESPONSES THAT WE'RE SEEING.

>> Lou: OKAY.

COUNCILOR ROGERS, I WANTED TO ASK YOU QUICKLY ABOUT  THAT REPORT AS WELL.

THE KELLER ADMINISTRATION  HAS SAID THAT THEY'RE NOT TOO HAPPY WITH IT.

AND THEY'VE ACCUSED IT OF BEING INACCURATE IN SOME  WAYS.

WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO  THE REPORT?

AND I GUESS PERSONALLY, BUT  ALSO FROM A COUNCIL PERSPECTIVE, IS CITY COUNCIL  TAKING THIS REPORT SERIOUSLY TOO?

>> Rogers: I THINK FOR ME PERSONALLY, I THINK I DON'T  EVER WANT TO -- THESE ARE PEOPLE'S STORIES.

THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO SHARED THEIR TRUTH WITH US.

AND WE CAN DISMISS IT ALL WE WANT, BUT IT'S REAL FOR  FOLKS WHO ARE LIVING IN THE HEAT, IN THE COLD DAY AFTER  DAY.

SO, I WOULD ABSOLUTELY NEVER  WANT TO REFUTE SOMEBODY'S OR SAY SOMEBODY'S STORY IS NOT  TRUTHFUL.

I THINK FOR ME WE SHOULD  LISTEN TO THOSE OPENLY, AND REALLY HEAR WHAT THEY'RE  SAYING, AND TRY TO ALIGN OUR SYSTEMS TO HELP THE MOST  VULNERABLE IN OUR COMMUNITY.

AND I THINK THAT'S THE  DIFFERENCE.

I THINK IN TERMS OF WHAT  NUMBERS ARE ACCURATE OR WHAT NUMBERS AREN'T ACCURATE, I  GO OFF OF WHAT PEOPLE SAY.

AND WE HEARD FROM MAYOR  KELLER IN THE GOVERNOR'S PUBLIC SAFETY TOWN HALL THAT  THE CITY AVERAGES ABOUT 2,000 ENCAMPMENT CLEARINGS A  MONTH.

HE SAID IT IN FRONT OF THE  WORLD.

YOU CAN RUN THE TAPE BACK.

I THINK FROM WHAT PEOPLE -- I THINK THAT IS ACCURATE.

BECAUSE I SEE IT IN MY DISTRICT.

AND I STOP AT ENCAMPMENTS OPERATIONS OFTEN TO JUST  STOP AND OBSERVE AND SEE.

AND THEN AFTER THEY'RE  CLEARED, I GO AND TALK TO THE PEOPLE AND SAY, WERE YOU  OFFERED A BED SOMEWHERE, WERE YOU OFFERED SHELTER,  AND MAJORITY OF THE TIME I'M TOLD NO.

I WAS NOT.

IF THEY WERE OFFERED A BED,  IT'S AT THE WEST SIDE SHELTER AND THEY ALREADY  HAVE EXPERIENCES THAT SAY I DON'T WANT TO GO BACK TO THE  WEST SIDE SHELTER.

SO THEY DO DECLINE THAT.

THAT IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO WORK WITH ADMINISTRATION ON.

AND I THINK THEY'RE DEFINITELY OPEN TO ALL  SUGGESTIONS RIGHT NOW.

BECAUSE WE ARE ALL -- WE  HAVE TO HAVE A BETTER RESPONSE.

AND WE HAVE TO HELP FOLKS -- AS FAR AS COUNCIL, MY ROLE  AS A COUNCILOR IN THIS, WE HAVE COUNCILORS ON OUR TEAM  THAT SOME GET IT, AND SOME UNDERSTAND AND OTHERS DON'T.

BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE LIVED EXPERIENCE OF -- AND  THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THEY'RE NOT WELL INTENDED,  RIGHT?

OR DON'T WANT TO HELP.

BUT IT'S JUST LIFE EXPERIENCE, YOU SEE THE  WORLD DIFFERENTLY, AND SOME COUNCILORS EXPECT THAT YOU  SHOULD CALL OUR HOUSING HOMELESSNESS AND HOUSING  DEPARTMENT AND BE ABLE TO GET HELP RIGHT AWAY.

THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

AND I THINK TO RACHEL'S POINT, AS I'M TRYING TO  ADVOCATE AND ALSO EDUCATE COMMUNITY, I'M CONFUSED ON  WHAT THE PROCESS IS SOMETIMES.

AND OKAY, WHAT ARE WE DOING THIS WEEK AND WHO IS ON THE  ENCAMPMENT TEAM, AND WHO IS NOT ON THE ENCAMPMENT TEAM.

I ASSUMED ACS WAS ON THE ENCAMPMENT TEAM.

I JUST LEARNED THEY'RE NOT.

THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE  THEY'RE NOT IN THE ENFORCEMENT GAME BECAUSE  THEY'RE TRYING TO BUILD RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE  FOLKS -- OUR UNSHELTERED FOLKS AND TAKE A HARD STANCE  ON ENFORCEMENT.

THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS.

BUT I KNOW ONE THING WE ALL GOT TO GET ON THE SAME PAGE.

IT'S NOT JUST THE CITY'S RESPONSIBILITY, BUT WE HAVE  TO LOOK AT OUR OWN PROCESSES, ESPECIALLY WITH  FUNDING AND WHERE IT GOES, AND MAKING SURE WE'RE MORE  EFFICIENT WITH OUR PROCESSES SO OUR PROVIDERS LIKE HEALTH  CARE FOR THE HOMELESS AND OTHERS CAN DO THE HARD WORK.

AND WE HAVE TO GET BETTER.

>> Lou: UNDERSTOOD.

NOW, AS FAR AS BEING ALL ON THE SAME PAGE LIKE YOU WERE  SAYING, I WANT TO END THERE AND I'LL GIVE ALL THREE OF  YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO ANSWER THIS IN SOME WAY.

IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF THE ENTITIES THAT ARE TASKED  WITH FINDING SOLUTIONS TO THESE PROBLEMS HAVE CREATED  SOME SORT OF AN ADVERSARIAL RELATIONSHIP.

WHETHER IT'S THE GOVERNOR AND NONPROFITS, OR THE MAYOR  AND NONPROFITS, OR ADVOCACY LEGAL COMMUNITY WHERE YOU'RE  FROM, PETER.

HOW DO WE CUT THROUGH THAT AND GET TO A MORE  COLLABORATIVE ENVIRONMENT SO THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY START  WORKING TOWARD REAL SOLUTIONS?

I'LL START WITH YOU, PETER.

>> Cubra: THANKS.

I'M WORKING WITH A NUMBER OF LEGISLATORS, WITH COUNTY  COMMISSIONERS, AND WITH CITY COUNCILORS ALL TOWARD ONE  GOAL.

WHICH IS TO CREATE FOR  PEOPLE WHO HAVE PSYCHIATRIC CONDITIONS, SUBSTANCE USE  DISORDERS, BRAIN INJURIES WHO ARE UNHOUSED, A PROGRAM  LIKE THE DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES WAIVER FOR  PEOPLE WITH INTELLECTUAL DISABILITIES.

THOSE 6,800 PEOPLE ARE BEING WELL SERVED IN GROUP HOMES  AND FAMILY SUPPORT.

AND WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO  FOCUS ON A SOLUTION.

LET'S GIVE SOME PERMANENT  SUPPORTIVE HOUSING TO THE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE  UNHOUSED BECAUSE OF THEIR DISORDERS AND THEIR POVERTY  COMBINED AND TREAT THEM THE WAY THAT WE'RE TREATING  PEOPLE WITH DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES IN A KIND,  COMPASSIONATE SYSTEM THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PAYS  74% OF THE COST.

>> Lou: RACHEL, HOW ABOUT TO  YOU.

IN A GENERAL SENSE, HOW DO  WE REACH A SITUATION WHERE THERE CAN BE MORE  COLLABORATION BETWEEN ALL OF THESE GROUPS THAT ARE  ESSENTIALLY WORKING TOWARD THE SAME GOALS?

>> Biggs: WE HAVE GREAT EXAMPLES AND WE HAVE GREAT  EXAMPLES IN OUR OWN CITY'S HISTORY, AS WELL.

SO, STRUCTURAL PROBLEMS LIKE HOMELESSNESS REQUIRE  STRUCTURAL SOLUTIONS.

AND THOSE ARE HARD  SOLUTIONS.

BUT IT STARTS WITH FOCUSING  ON HOUSING AS THE MAIN STRUCTURAL SOLUTION.

AND WE DID THIS WITH HEADING HOME INITIATIVE DECADES AGO  NOW AT THIS POINT.

UNDER A PREVIOUS  ADMINISTRATION, REALLY PUTTING THE RESOURCES TOWARD  WHAT PETER IS TALKING ABOUT, PERMANENT SUPPORTIVE  HOUSING.

WE HAVE THOSE SYSTEMS IN  PLACE.

WE JUST HAVEN'T BROUGHT THEM  TO SCALE.

WE'VE SEEN WHEN THIS WORKS  IN OTHER PLACES LIKE IN HOUSTON, THEY'VE HAD A 63%  DECREASE IN HOMELESSNESS SINCE 2012.

THEY'VE HOUSED MORE THAN 30,000 PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY  HAVE JUST WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR, PEOPLE ALL ON THE SAME  PAGE WORKING TOWARD THE SHARED AIM.

AND THEY ALL AGREED THERE TO FOCUSED ON HOUSING FIRST AND  THE PRINCIPLES OF HOUSING FIRST AND PERMANENT  SUPPORTIVE HOUSING AND ENSURING THAT EVERY  PROVIDER, EVERY ENTITY IS WORK WITHIN THEIR NICHE AND  ASKING THOSE HARD QUESTIONS OF EACH OTHER SAYING WHAT  ARE YOU GOING TO SPECIALIZE IN, HOW DO WE ALL GET ON THE  SAME PAGE OF THE SAME SHARED AIM.

AND REALLY MAKING THOSE HARD DECISIONS TO SAY WE DON'T  NEED TO GO FROM STREET TO SHELTER TO TRANSITIONAL  HOUSING INTO HOUSING.

WE CAN GO STRAIGHT FROM THE  STREET TO HOUSING AND A COORDINATED PIPELINE OF US  ALL WORKING TOGETHER TO ACHIEVE THE SAME GOAL OF  STREET TO HOUSING.

PERMANENT SUPPORTIVE  HOUSING, PERMANENT HOUSING FOR FOLKS,  THAT'S WHERE WE'RE REALLY GOING TO SEE THE IMPACT.

AND IF WE WOULD HAVE BEEN DOING THIS, THAT HIGH LEVEL  IMPACT, WE WOULD HAVE SEEN THIS HAVE DIVIDENDS RIGHT  NOW.

WE WOULD HAVE BEEN  EXPONENTIALLY FURTHER ALONG THAN WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW.

WE JUST BROKE GROUND ON A HOUSING DEVELOPMENT.

WE'RE AT 66 FLATS YESTERDAY.

WE DIDN'T SPEND TIME TALKING  ABOUT HOW HARD IT IS TO DEVELOP HOUSING.

I THINK WE NEED TO MOVE PAST THAT.

WE NEED TO JUST GET TO WORK AND FOCUS ON THE SOLUTIONS  THAT WE KNOW HAVE IMPACT AND WE HAVE THE DATA AND THE  EVIDENCE TO SHOW IT.

LIKE I SAID, WE HAVE OUR OWN  HEADING COME COST STUDY HERE FROM 2016 THAT SHOWS THIS  WORKS.

IT HAS COST SAVINGS, IT HAS  REAL IMPACT.

SO WE CAN GET EVERYONE ON  THE SAME PAGE TOWARD THAT SHARED AIM AND HAVE THE  LEADERSHIP, REALLY, I THINK IT'S THE PUBLIC SECTOR  LEADERSHIP THAT WE NEED TO GET US TO REACHING THOSE  GOALS.

THE NONPROFITS ARE AN  IMPORTANT PART OF THE SOLUTION, BUT WE'RE REALLY  COGS IN THE MACHINE AND WE NEED TO FEED INTO THE BIGGER  PICTURE, THE BIGGER BLUEPRINT THAT THE PUBLIC  ENTITIES SHOULD SET.

YES, IT'S NOT JUST ON THE  CITY, THE SATE OR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, BUT WE  NEED THEM ALL WORKING TOGETHER AND INVESTING IN  THESE SOLUTIONS TO SCALE AND THE NONPROFITS PLAY A BIG  ROLE IN THAT, BUT WE CANNOT AND WILL NOT SOLVE  HOMELESSNESS ON OUR OWN.

>> Lou: UNDERSTOOD.

COUNCILOR ROGERS, I'LL END WITH YOU.

OBVIOUSLY, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE AS AN ELECTED  OFFICIAL WORKING WITH NONPROFITS AND OTHER GROUPS.

>> Rogers: YEAH, THERE'S SO MUCH I WANT TO SAY ABOUT  THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC.

I HONESTLY THINK THE BIGGEST  THING ON MY HEART RIGHT NOW IS TELL EVERYBODY STOP.

STOP IT.

THIS AND THIS FINGER  POINTING, AND THIS AND THAT AND THEY DIDN'T DO THEIR  PART, AND WE DIDN'T -- WE'VE GOT TO STOP THAT.

WE NEED TO ALL -- I WOULD LOVE TO GET EVERYBODY IN A  ROOM, ELECTED OFFICIALS, ALL THE ADVOCACY GROUPS, PEOPLE  SMARTER THAN US THAT DO THIS WORK EVERY DAY, AND ACTUALLY  LISTEN TO THEM.

SO GOVERNMENT, CITY, STATE,  FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NEED TO LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO  KNOW THE WORK.

AND WE DON'T.

WE LIKE TO DICTATE TO THEM WHAT TO DO, AND WE DON'T  LOOK AT OUR OWN PROCESSES.

SO, I WOULD LOVE TO GET  EVERYBODY IN THE ROOM, AND I FEEL LIKE THIS DOESN'T  HAPPEN ENOUGH.

AND I KNOW THIS HAPPENS IN  PLACES LIKE HOUSTON WHERE THESE GROUPS ARE HAVING  WEEKLY MEETINGS TO COORDINATE.

ALL RIGHT, WE SEE A BIG ENCAMPMENT HERE, WHAT ARE WE  GOING TO DO TO SUPPORT THEM.

NOT, OKAY HOW ARE WE GOING  TO SWEEP THEM.

IT'S LITERALLY, LET'S GET  IN, LET'S USE ALL OF OUR RESOURCES AND DO THIS.

I JUST BECAME THE CO-CHAIR OF THE HOMELESS COORDINATING  COUNCIL.

AND I'D LIKE TO SHAKE THAT  UP.

THAT GROUP IS EVERYBODY THAT  HAS A HAND IN HOMELESSNESS.

ALL OF THE MAJOR ENTITIES.

CITY COUNCILORS, COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, APS, PETER  EVEN COMES TO THOSE MEETINGS.

ALL OF THE FOLKS WHO HAVE A HAND IN HOMELESSNESS, LET'S  GET OFF OF ZOOM, LET'S GET IN A ROOM AND LET'S DO SOME  WORK TO ALIGN OUR SYSTEMS.

BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT'S NOT  HAPPENING.

AND I'M INCREASINGLY  FRUSTRATED WITH THAT MEETING SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE WE'RE  NOT COORDINATING ANYTHING.

AND SO, I WOULD LIKE TO  SHAKE IT UP THERE AND REALLY GET US IN A ROOM TO START  PUSHING IN THE SAME DIRECTION.

AND IT'S ALL HANDS ON DECK.

ALL HANDS ON DECK.

>> Lou: VERY GOOD.

I APPRECIATE IT.

THANK YOU, COUNCILOR ROGERS,  PETER CUBRA, RACHEL BIGS.

APPRECIATE YOU ALL FOR BEING  HERE.

AND WE'LL TALK AGAIN SOON.

>> Jeff: THANKS FOR WATCHING.

AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.