_{&gt;&gt; Laura: FOR DECADES, THE RIO<br />GRANDE DOWNSTREAM OF} _{ALBUQUERQUE HAS DRIED DURING<br />IRRIGATION SEASON.} _{NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE PAY<br />ATTENTION TO THAT.} _{BUT, THIS SUMMER IN JULY, THE<br />DRYING MARCHED UPSTREAM INTO} _{ALBUQUERQUE.<br />AND PEOPLE NOTICED.} _{WHAT MOST PEOPLE PROBABLY<br />DON'T REALIZE IS RIVERS IN NEW} _{MEXICO DON'T HAVE RIGHTS TO<br />THEIR OWN WATERS SO THE WATER} _{YOU SEE FLOWING PAST IT IS ALL<br />MEANT FOR SOMEONE ELSE} _{DOWNSTREAM.<br />AND SOMETIMES WHAT THAT MEANS} _{IS THERE IS NOT ENOUGH WATER<br />LEFT FOR THE RIVER ITSELF AND} _{THE SPECIES THAT RELY UPON IT.<br />PAUL TASHJIAN IS DIRECTOR OF} _{FRESH WATER CONSERVATION FOR<br />AUDUBON SOUTHWEST.} _{KEEPING WATER IN RIVERS IS<br />SOMETHING HE THINKS ABOUT A} _{LOT.<br />&gt;&gt; Tashjian: IN NEW MEXICO} _{LIKE MANY WESTERN STATES,<br />THERE ARE NO INHERENT RIGHTS} _{OR CLAIMS THAT RIVERS HAVE ON<br />THEIR WATER.} _{WATER IN NEW MEXICO IS MANAGED<br />ON WHAT IS CALLED THE PRIORITY} _{ADMINISTRATION SYSTEM AND THIS<br />IS LIKE MOST OTHER WESTERN} _{STATES MANAGED ON A SIMILAR<br />SYSTEM.} _{IT IS A SYSTEM OF EXTRACTION.<br />IT IS A WINNER-TAKE-ALL KIND} _{OF SYSTEM AND HOW IT WORKS IS<br />THAT PERMITS ARE ISSUED FOR} _{WATER RIGHT USERS UNTIL THERE<br />IS NO WATER LEFT.} _{&gt;&gt; Laura: IN NEW MEXICO WHEN<br />DRY TIMES STRIKE, PEOPLE WITH} _{THE OLDEST WATER RIGHTS,<br />SENIOR WATER RIGHTS, GET WATER} _{FIRST.<br />AND UNLESS PEOPLE DECIDE TO} _{SHARE SHORTAGES, JUNIOR OR<br />NEWER WATER RIGHTS CAN GET} _{CUT.<br />THE OLDEST USERS, THE RIVERS} _{THEMSELVES, THEIR ECOSYSTEMS,<br />THEIR WILDLIFE, THEY CAN BE} _{LEFT WITH NOTHING.<br />&gt;&gt; Tashjian: THESE WATER RIGHT} _{ISSUES WERE ISSUED DURING<br />WETTER TIMES UNDER THIS MODEL} _{OF PRIOR APPROPRIATIONS WHERE<br />THERE ARE MORE WATER RIGHT} _{PERMITS THAN THERE IS WATER IN<br />THE SYSTEM.} _{THAT WAS BEFORE WE REALLY<br />STARTED TO SEE THE IMPACT OF} _{CLIMATE CHANGE.<br />&gt;&gt; Laura: IT IS CLEAR DRY} _{RIVERBEDS ARE BAD FOR FISH,} _{COTTONWOODS FOREST, ALL THE<br />SPECIES INCLUDING HUMANS WHO} _{RELY ON THEM.<br />&gt;&gt; Tashjian: DRY RIVERS ARE} _{NOT GOOD FOR WATER MANAGEMENT<br />ITSELF.} _{JUST TO MOVE WATER DOWN TO<br />FARMERS DOWNSTREAM OR BE} _{MOVING WATER FOR DELIVERING IT<br />TO OUR NEIGHBORING STATES LIKE} _{TEXAS, HAVING A DRY RIVER IS<br />NOT AN EFFICIENT WAY OR} _{EFFECTIVE WAY TO MOVE WATER.<br />ACROSS THE BOARD, DRY RIVERS} _{ARE DETRIMENTAL.<br />&gt;&gt; Laura: THERE ARE WAYS TO} _{CHANGE THIS.<br />&gt;&gt; Tashjian: NEW MEXICO HAS} _{DEVELOPED TOOLS TO KEEP WATER<br />IN THE RIVERS WITHIN THE WATER} _{RIGHTS SYSTEM AND I THINK IT<br />IS REALLY IMPORTANT.} _{I CRITICIZE THE PRIORITY<br />ADMINISTRATION SYSTEM BUT TO} _{DISMANTLE IT ISN'T FEASIBLE.<br />&gt;&gt; Laura: WE HAVE THE} _{STRATEGIC WATER RESERVE USED<br />TO KEEP WATER IN RIVERS FOR} _{RARE ANIMALS PROTECTED UNDER<br />THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT.} _{FISH LIKE THE RIO GRANDE<br />SILVERY MINNOW, THE PECOS} _{BLUNT-NOSE SHINER AND THE PIKE<br />MINNOW IN THE SAN JUAN RIVER.} _{TO HELP THOSE SPECIES THE<br />STATE CAN LEASE WATER FROM} _{WILLING FARMERS.<br />&gt;&gt; Tashjian: ANOTHER TOOL IS} _{THIS THING CALLED DYNAMIC<br />WATER LEASING.} _{IT IS SORT OF A NEWER TOOL<br />DEVELOPED BY IRRIGATION} _{DISTRICTS, ONE WHERE<br />IRRIGATION DISTRICTS} _{THEMSELVES ARE LEASING WATER<br />FROM WILLING LESSEES AND PUT} _{INTO A SIMILAR KIND OF BANK<br />AND STORED AND USED FOR} _{ENVIRONMENTAL PURPOSES.<br />&gt;&gt; Laura: THERE IS SO MUCH} _{MORE TO DO.<br />&gt;&gt; Tashjian: WE ARE THE ONLY} _{WESTERN STATE THAT DOESN'T<br />HAVE AN ENVIRONMENTAL FLOW} _{PROGRAM AND IT HAS BEEN TALKED<br />ABOUT FOR A LONG TIME.} _{WHAT AN ENVIRONMENTAL FLOW<br />PROGRAM DOES IS IT USES THE} _{TOOLS THAT ARE TALKED ABOUT IN<br />OTHER TOOLS LOCALLY TO TRY TO} _{FIND CREATIVE SOLUTIONS AND IT<br />REALLY SHIFTS THE GAME, SHIFTS} _{IT FROM ONE WHERE YOU'RE<br />MANAGING FOR ENDANGERED} _{SPECIES AND IT IS OUT OF FEAR<br />OF LITIGATION.} _{IT LEADS TO KIND OF EDGY<br />MANAGEMENT AND I HAVE SEEN IT.} _{BUT IF YOU SHIFT IT TO WHAT DO<br />LOCAL COMMUNITIES WANT?} _{WHAT IS IMPORTANT?<br />WHAT TOOLS WORK IN THAT LOCAL} _{COMMUNITY.<br />IT IS A MUCH DIFFERENT WAY OF} _{MANAGING A SYSTEM.<br />I THINK THAT IS REALLY} _{IMPORTANT.<br />ENDANGERED SPECIES ARE} _{CRITICAL AND IMPORTANT, BUT<br />WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH} _{ENDANGERED SPECIES, YOU'RE<br />ALREADY AT A CRISIS POINT.} _{&gt;&gt; Laura: ONCE THE RIVER DRIES<br />AND DRIES THE NEXT YEAR AND} _{DRIES AGAIN, WE GET USED TO<br />THAT.} _{WE ACCEPT DRY OR BROKEN RIVERS<br />AS NORMAL.} _{WE EVEN STOP REMEMBERING, STOP<br />TELLING STORIES ABOUT WHAT A} _{LIVING RIVER WAS LIKE.<br />&gt;&gt; Tashjian: EL PASO IS PRETTY} _{REMARKABLE IF YOU HAVE EVER<br />BEEN DOWN THERE.} _{IT IS BASICALLY A LARGE<br />CONCRETE CHANNEL, WITH MAYBE A} _{THREAD OF LEFT-OVER SEWAGE<br />WATER OR SOMETHING} _{RUNNING IT<br />IN.} _{IT IS REALLY DEGRADING AND NO<br />CORRIDOR OF TREES AROUND IT.} _{IT IS JUST A FUTURISTIC,<br />CONCRETE, POST APOCALYPSE} _{DITCH.<br />VERSUS HERE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE} _{A CORRIDOR OF COTTONWOOD AND<br />WILLOW TREES AND GRASSLAND AND} _{A FLOWING RIVER.<br />IT IS QUITE DIFFERENT.} _{HARD TO GO BACK.<br />YOU CAN'T SORT OF GO BACK} _{TO -- A PLACE LIKE EL PASO,<br />YOU CAN'T ALL OF A SUDDEN} _{RESTORE THAT RIVER DOWN THERE.<br />ONCE IT IS GONE.} _{IT IS GONE.<br />&gt;&gt; Laura: IN NEW MEXICO OUR} _{RIVERS HAVE TAKEN CARE OF US<br />FOR CENTURIES, FOREVER AND IF} _{WE WANT TO KEEP THEM, IT IS<br />TIME FOR US TO BE GIVING BACK.} _{FOR OUR LAND AND NEW MEXICO<br />IN FOCUS, I AM LAURA PASKUS.}