GEOFF BENNETT: For perspective, we turn now to Ivo Daalder.

He was U.S.

ambassador to NATO during the Obama administration and is now a senior fellow at Harvard University's Belfer Center.

It's always great to have you with us.

Before we get to the NATO summit, I want to ask you about Iran, because the administration says these latest strikes are a direct response to Iran's attacks on commercial vessels in the Strait of Hormuz.

Was a military response inevitable, in your view?

What options did the president have, short of renewed strikes?

IVO DAALDER, Former U.S.

Ambassador to NATO: No, I think some kind of military action was pretty inevitable.

I think the fundamental problem isn't the strikes left or right.

We have had this now since the cease-fire was started back in April.

The fundamental problem is that we are somehow deluding ourselves that, because we signed a memorandum with Iran, we agree on the fundamentals.

And we don't.

The fundamental reality is, is that Iran wants and will insist on having control over who gets access to the strait.

And we want freedom of navigation, which is what we have had in this part of the world until the day the war started.

And that's a fundamental difference that the first point in the memorandum sort of papered over.

It was always clear that the Iranians had a different view then than we did on what would happen to the strait.

And that's now playing out.

And, unfortunately it's playing out with fire across various parts of the strait.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, this conflict with Iran loomed over the NATO summit, as you well know.

As Nick reported, President Trump left the summit saying there was a lot of unity, but he also criticized allies over Iran, over defense spending, over his own desire to acquire Greenland.

What did this summit actually reveal about the state of the alliance?

IVO DAALDER: Well, it revealed that things are not as bad as they could be, but they're certainly not in a great state.

I think the leaders leaving Ankara today are glad to know that they're probably not going to have another summit any time soon.

There was supposed to be one next year.

They have now been silent about whether that will in fact occur.

The reality is that the 32 leaders came with their large entourages to Ankara, and all they tried to do is to make sure that nothing bad happened, that nothing would blow up, that we could manage the president of the United States in a way that he wouldn't withdraw from NATO or do anything else that would undermine NATO.

And, in that, they succeeded.

But that's not why you have summits.

It's not why you spend the time to have 32 leaders come together to have detailed discussions.

And so I think the conclusion now is that NATO needs to get on with the business that everybody agrees on, which is that the Europeans not only do more, but take more responsibility for the defense of Europe, that the Canadians contribute to that, and that one works with the United States in a coordinated manner, as the Europeans deploy more capabilities, that the United States can then reduce its capabilities.

That is the focus, I think, for the next few years, hoping that the U.S.

will stay engaged enough for the Europeans to buy the time to build up their own capabilities.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, on that point, President Trump maintains that his pressure campaign worked, that Europe, yes, is spending more in defense.

It's taking more responsibility for its own security.

Does he deserve credit for that?

IVO DAALDER: Well, he does.

I mean, he has been very public on pushing for this.

To be frank, one of the reasons and the main reason, of course, that the Europeans are increasing defense spending is because of the threat that Russia poses.

Russia's economy is now a war economy.

It is spewing out large numbers of weapons and capabilities that are being used, of course, in Ukraine, but are also threatening -- threatening Europe.

And to be even more frank, the other reason Europeans are spending more is because they no longer can rely on the United States.

They see the United States as an unreliable, untrustworthy ally, and are now faced with the prospect of having to defend themselves without U.S.

help.

So Donald Trump has helped, maybe not in exactly the way that previous presidents have pushed.

But, to be frank, the Europeans are doing more.

That is a good thing.

And I think Secretary-General Rutte, Mark Rutte, is exactly right to give Mr.

Trump all the credit he wants, because that is important, not because he deserves the credit, per se, but because it means that he is likely to stay within the alliance, rather than walk away, which is ultimately the one thing we want to prevent from happening.

GEOFF BENNETT: You mentioned Russia.

It strikes me, when Russia looks at NATO these days, do they see a strengthened alliance, or do they see an alliance that is really sort of dependent on the temperament of one American president?

IVO DAALDER: Yes, I'm worried that the next two to three years, as Europe is translating the dollars and the euros that they are spending on defense into real capabilities, that those next two to two to three, four years open up a gap in the capacity for Europe to defend itself if -- and that's a big if -- the United States weren't fully committed to that defense.

And, as a result, I think Vladimir Putin may see an opportunity to open up splits within -- among the Europeans, between Europe and the United States by taking military actions or taking actions that threaten the security of NATO countries, in the hope that he can divide the NATO alliance, because that ultimately is what this is about.

He wants to control the future of Ukraine, but he also wants the United States out of Europe, and he wants the Europeans to be divided, because it's so much easier to impose your will when there is no unity and disunity, rather than when there is unity.

So, in the sense that unity was conveyed by this meeting today in Ankara, that is a good thing and it's a good message also being sent to Vladimir Putin.

GEOFF BENNETT: Former U.S.

Ambassador to NATO Ivo Daalder, always great to speak with you.

Thank you.

IVO DAALDER: My pleasure.